Talbros Automotive Components Ltd (TALBROAUTO) Q4 FY23 Earnings Concall Transcript

Talbros Automotive Components Ltd (NSE: TALBROAUTO) Q4 FY23 earnings concall dated May. 17, 2023

Corporate Participants:

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Analysts:

Shikha Mehta — Equitree Capital — Analyst

Naysar Parikh — Native Capital — Analyst

Divya Daga — Vijit Global Securities — Analyst

Rahil Shah — Crown Capital — Analyst

Nihal Jain — SK Securities — Analyst

Harsh Shah — Tophill Invest — Analyst

Jigar Shah — AK Securities — Analyst

Prachi Sharma — Ace Capital — Analyst

Presentation:

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Talbros Automotive Components Limited Q4 and FY ’23 Earnings Conference Call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on the date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. [Operator Instructions]

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anuj Talwar, Joint Managing Director of Talbros Automotive Components Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Yeah. Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. A very warm welcome to our Q4 and FY ’23 earnings call. On the call today, I’m joined by Mr. Navin Juneja, our Director of the Board and our Group CFO; SGA, our IR firm in Mumbai. The result and the presentation are uploaded on the stock exchange and the company website. I hope everyone has seen it.

I’ll begin with the industry and the economy overview. In FY ’22-’23, the automotive industry experienced a significant boost in production and sales, largely due to increased economic activity and mobility. According to industry data, a total of 25.9 million vehicles were produced between April ’22 and March ’23 compared with 23 million units in the previous year. Sales improved across most automotive segments, including passenger cars, commercial vehicles, tractors, resulting in a 20% increase in the overall automobile sales from 17.6 million in ’21-’22 to 21.2 million units in ’22-’23.

Domestic sales of passenger vehicles increased by 27%, reaching over 3.9 million passenger cars, highest ever in our country, up from 3.1 million units in FY ’22. The Commercial Vehicle segment had the second highest domestic sales with an increase from 7.2 lakh to 9.6 lakh units, representing a growth of 34%. Three-wheelers also witnessed impressive growth, surging from 2.6 lakh to 4.9 lakh units, an increase of 87%. Two-wheeler sales, which was lagging the high-end, also increased from 13.6 million to 15.9 million units last year.

The growth was particularly strong in the Passenger Vehicle segment and is expected to keep going on for the next coming years. And a lot of announcements from the big boys in Maruti and Tata, how they’re adding capacity. The demand for commercial vehicles have been boosted by the government initiatives aimed at building infrastructure such as roads, highways and ports. As a company that is very strong in these two segments, Talbros will continue to perform even better and stronger and take more market share in these segments.

Now at the company performance. FY ’23 has been a strong year at Talbros Automotive. At a group level, including the joint ventures, the company for the first time, achieved a revenue of INR1,037 crores, a growth of 18% year-on-year. As we said earlier, our company has received multiyear orders of about INR1,000 crores from both domestic as well as overseas OEMs across all our business lines, including gasket, heat shields, forging, chassis and rubber.

Our gasket division has shifted focus towards heat shields while constantly diversifying the segment portfolio and securing exports. In the gasket division, we’re happy to announce that for the first time, our heat shield division crossed about INR20 crores in revenues, and we expect this to reach about INR90 crores by FY ’27. Gasket been the cash now as a market leader. We continue to get more and more orders from domestic OEMs as well as global OEMs. And we believe that even now we can get a lot more of exports in our gasket business line. We’ve also increased our contribution towards PV segment and CV with standing into new geographies like Russia, Japan, for LCV, HCV and off-road segment products.

In the Forging division, we are leveraging our company’s capability to convert castings into forgings and increasing our focus on electric vehicles. We recently added heavyweight parts up to 30 kilos, and generate our focus and expose managing geographies like UK, North America, which has added a landmark customer in the UK, which we mentioned about who converted from castings to forgings, who is very big in the construction and the Off-Highway segment.

You will see in our joint ventures are clearly an inflection points. Each one of them is showing very strong high double-digit growths going forward. Our Marelli joint venture, we already supplied components to the domestic OEMs and export [Phonetic] OEMs. We are supplying components for the chassis, suspension and now recently making a cradle for Tata Motors, which is directly a needy component whether battery motor will fit.

Coming to our JV with Marugo, you have seen that how the company has turned the fortunes both in top line and bottom line. We were successfully able to reduce a part for Maruti for the E20 hoses, which is the product for the biofuel, which the government is planning 20% ethanol into fuel to reduce its imports of crude oil mine. We are one of the few companies in the country to have successfully commissioned this product, and we will supply this successfully to the Maruti last four months. Now this will only go up.

Nippon Leakless is a very high EBITDA margin business, and the company has strong relationship with Honda and Hero Motor Corporations. We’re constantly working on increasing our exports from the current level of 25% to 35% over the next three years to four years with focus coming from all our business lines to grow more and more export-oriented, obviously with fulfilling all the requirements of the domestic OEs first, where we find the demand to be very, very strong.

The trend towards Electric Vehicles is expanding and we’ve been strengthening our EV portfolio, we secured orders from leading OEMs, both domestically and globally in the EV space as well. We also have secured some orders from the non-automotive segment, and this will help us hedge our revenue going forward.

With continuous innovation in products like heat shields, strengthening EV portfolio, orders from non-automotive segments, strong clients and journey towards sustainability for manufacturing biofuel hoses for the E20 segment, we are very strong. We are very confident of achieving good growth in the near future. As informed, the investment in investor community recently, we plan to double our revenues and become INR2,200 core company by the year FY ’27.

I think with all this, what we shared with you that being a segment player, being into every segment, being in export and very strong cost controls internally through our presidents of all divisions and focus on localizations, I feel that our margins should increase over 15% to 16% EBITDA by FY ’27.

Before I hand the call to Navin Juneja, our Group CFO, who will take us through the numbers, I’m very happy to announce that we are proud to have delivered a strong performance last year and even above that in quarter four. Navin, over to you.

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Thank you very much. Good afternoon, and a warm welcome to all the participants. Let me begin with the financial overview. Our total revenue for Q4 of FY ’23 stood at INR177 crores as against INR150 crores, a growth of 18% on Y-o-Y basis. For FY of ’23, our revenue stood at INR653 crores as against INR585 crores, a growth of 12% on a Y-o-Y basis. EBITDA for Q4 FY of ’23 stood at INR70 [Phonetic] crores as against INR23 crores, a growth of 18% on Y-o-Y basis. And for FY of ’23, EBITDA stood at INR93 crores as against INR83 crores, a growth of 12% on a Y-o-Y basis.

EBITDA margins for Q4 of FY ’23 stood at 15.2% and for FY ’23 stood at 14.3%. PAT for Q4 of FY ’23 stood at INR17 crores as against INR13 crores, a growth of 34% on Y-o-Y basis and for FY of ’23, PAT stood at INR56 crores as against INR45 crores, a growth of 24% on Y-o-Y basis. The Board of Directors have declared a final dividend of INR2 per share of face value of 10 each a total dividend for FY ’23 stood at INR3 per equity share for FY ’23.

In the Gasket division including Nippon Leakless Talbros for Q4 of FY ’23, our standalone gasket sales are INR119 crores as against INR102 crores in Q4 of FY ’22, a growth of 17%. Total revenue of Nippon Leakless was INR8 crores in Q4 of FY ’23 as compared to INR7 crores in Q4 of ’22, a growth of 8%. These numbers are our share of business of 40% [Phonetic]. For FY ’23, our standalone gasket was INR434 crores as against INR382 crores in FY ’22, a growth of 14%. Total revenue of Nippon Leakless was INR35 crores in FY ’23 as compared to INR30 crores in FY ’22, a growth of 19%. Nippon Leakless numbers are — reflect our share of business, our share of shareholding with 40%. That is 40% only. The segment saw a combined EBITDA of INR18.6 crores in Q4 of FY ’23 versus INR16.4 crores in Q4 of FY ’22, a growth of 13% for a full financial year of ’23, this segment saw a combined EBITDA of INR67.5 crores as against INR59.5 crores, a growth of 13%.

Now coming to our Forging division. Revenue of this division in Q4 of FY ’22 reach grew by 23% to INR59 crores — sorry, INR59 [Phonetic] crores as against INR48 crores in Q4 of FY ’22. In FY ’23, revenue grew by 7% to INR219 crores as against INR204 crores in FY ’22. As you are aware in the first nine months, there was a shortage of chips, et cetera, logistic issues — lot of logistic issues and lot of demand of JLR, et cetera came down. So now everything is falling in line, and we are back on track in this division. EBITDA in Q4 of FY ’23 grew from 9% to INR10 crores as against INR8 crores in Q4 of FY ’22. In FY ’23, EBITDA grew by 14% to INR34 crores as against INR30 crores in FY of ’22.

Now coming to Marelli Talbros Chassis Systems. Revenue for Q4 of FY ’23 stood at INR27 crores versus INR25 crores in Q4 ’22, registering a growth of 11% on a Y-o-Y basis for FY of ’23 revenue stood at INR105 crores versus INR82 crores, a growth of 27% on Y-o-Y basis, these numbers are our 50% share of business. For Q4 of FY ’23, EBITDA stood at INR3 crores as against INR2 [Phonetic] crores in Q4 of FY ’22, a growth of 26% on a Y-o-Y basis. For FY of ’23, EBITDA stood at INR11 crores as against INR8 crores in FY ’22, a growth of 34% on Y-o-Y basis.

Now coming to our large JV of Talbros Marugo Rubber Private Limited. Revenues stood at INR14 crores in Q4 of FY ’23 versus INR9 crores in Q4 of FY ’22, registering a growth of 68% on Y-o-Y basis. For FY ’23, revenue stood at INR42 crores as against INR27 crores, a growth of 55% on Y-o-Y basis. Again, these numbers are our share of 50% only. For Q4 of FY ’23, EBITDA stood at INR2 crores as against INR1 crore in Q4 of FY ’22, a growth of 148%. For FY ’23, EBITDA stood at INR4 crores as against INR1 crore in FY ’22, a growth of 199% [Phonetic] on Y-o-Y basis.

Looking ahead, we see various opportunities for sustained growth in the automotive industry. The company has made substantial investment in new technologies, expanding new capacities [Phonetic], diversifies product portfolio, broaden its customer base and enter additional markets. Talbros is confident that these initiatives will drive long-term growth for the company and positioning to take advantage of future opportunity in the industry.

That’s all from my side, and I would now like to open the floor to question-and-answers. Thank you.

Questions and Answers:

Operator

Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Shikha Mehta from Equitree Capital. Please go ahead.

Shikha Mehta — Equitree Capital — Analyst

Good afternoon, sir. Congratulations on a great set of numbers.

Operator

Shikha, your voice is breaking. May I request you to use the handset and come in network area please.

Shikha Mehta — Equitree Capital — Analyst

Is it better? Am I audible?

Operator

Yes.

Shikha Mehta — Equitree Capital — Analyst

Okay. Yeah. Congratulations on a great set of numbers. I just had a few questions. One is, on our last con call, you mentioned the Agri segment, which you have in Italy, et cetera. So how is that shaping up for us now? And also how is orders looking overall?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Shikha, yes, Agri is doing good. We supply to the Dana and Carraro from a volume division to the Agri segment industry, is doing strong, is doing, okay. The carmakers like BMW and Jaguar Land Rover are slightly, I will not say sluggish, but muted but looks, okay. We are looking at a good quarter, good year ahead for our Forging division also going forward. We are fine. And I think the onset of the new customer, HCV [Phonetic], which has come in, that will obviously add on a value and revenue to the company. So we are not at bother about that.

Shikha Mehta — Equitree Capital — Analyst

Okay. Great. And so if I remember, we had a small pause in the Wire Harness segment in our portfolio. Are we looking to grow that? Or what is the strategy regarding that?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Yeah, we are looking to grow that. In fact, as we speak, we’re looking to — we have approached another OEM in the US for the wire harness business. And also one group of potential OEM in the country, who is not currently using this [Phonetic] technology is visiting us first week of June. So hopefully, thinking [Speech Overlap]. And also from Russia, we’ve already got the order of about INR10 crores plus for this component for the local Russian market engines.

Shikha Mehta — Equitree Capital — Analyst

Okay. And overall right now, what would be our exposure to wire harness?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Wire harness is about INR30 crores, INR40 crores per annum at the moment, but this will go to about INR65 crores, INR70 crores in the next two years.

Shikha Mehta — Equitree Capital — Analyst

Okay. Got it. Sir, if you could also shed some light on our freight and power cost for Q4?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

On what?

Shikha Mehta — Equitree Capital — Analyst

Freight and power.

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Freight and power cost. Yeah. Freight has — overseas freight has come down, okay? We enjoyed the benefit of tax to the last. In Forging divisions, basically freight is — overseas freight is higher because of the major exports are coming from there. And it has come down and from pre-COVID levels, and we enjoyed the benefit of costs during the last four months. But I think we have to reset the prices of all the customers going forward. I think we will do it in this quarter.

And the cost of power —

Shikha Mehta — Equitree Capital — Analyst

Power?

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Power, I think power is already we are under control in Power segment. And in future, we have applied in some plants. We have [indecipherable], we can’t run in the summer, we can’t run [indecipherable]. We have converted our DC set to PNG. So we will be using PNG going forward for the DC sites. So it’s under control. Power is not a major problem for us.

Shikha Mehta — Equitree Capital — Analyst

Okay. Great, sir. That’s all from my side, sir. I will come back in the queue. Thank you, sir.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Naysar Parikh from Native Capital. Please go ahead.

Naysar Parikh — Native Capital — Analyst

Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking the question. My question is that in FY — is on the EV side, right on — in FY ’27, also we are expecting maybe 10%, 12% to only come from EVs. So I just want to get your sense that how — one, how do you see that evolving? And from the gasket side, do you see growth continue keeping the heat shield business side, do you still see growth over the next three years, four years in your gasket division?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

So coming to your question on EV side, of course, we are expecting from 2% [Phonetic] to around 12% on the double top line, around INR250 crores business we are expecting by FY ’27, the growth drivers will be heat shield. We are going to be setting the order for the heat shield to be fitted in the EV. So that order we are already negotiating, number one from that side. Plus on the battery, we are going to — already got the order for some revised gasket on the battery, number two. On the forging front, we are already supplying for our BMW vehicles, Volvo for our EV vehicles. The products are going. We expect a good growth of this business going forward. Plus our joint venture, NLK [Phonetic] already got a very good order [indecipherable] from Tata Motors. The volume of this business around INR32 crores, plus already we have got an order from Maruti for the EV vehicles. So that will also add to the JV, plus JLR, we have already got for the chassis business order for what their EV vehicles going forward. So all these, as of today, the picture looks like INR250 crores. And I think the more we’ll go forward the figures should increase. It should not come down, it should increase further. That is the way we are going.

Naysar Parikh — Native Capital — Analyst

Got it. And if I just look at your gasket business, and I think you spoke about this a couple of calls back also. But when we look at the gasket business, what kind of products if today, we assume a like-to-like ICE vehicle is replaced by EV, then your gasket and your forgings, what products replace it, as is like-to-like? And just from a content for vehicle — cost per vehicle, how much does it use to you?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Yeah. Forging has got no impact at all, number one, nor the chassis, nor the rubber. In the gasket business line for us, if I even remove heat shield and your question you asked me, even in gasket, because we are into commercial vehicles, into tractors, into Agri, into off-roaders, into EV. So it will continue to grow. I’m not saying degrow the gasket business. No, I’m not. There’s no like that suddenly the model of the world will be replaced by EV. We will continue to grow in gaskets. In fact, the feed study that there is so much consolidation happening in this segment and a lot of the gasket owners, or piston owners or bearing owners globally are owned by funds. And they’re not bullish about it. So it’s coming a lot to companies like us in India who are still not that large. We’re still able to capture more business going forward. So we have grown last year by 30%, 40% in that result. And going forward, we are — our vision is to double this turnover in the next four years.

Naysar Parikh — Native Capital — Analyst

Right. Got it. And sir, last question, this INR1,000 crores that you mentioned, which are the orders that you received. Can you give some guideline in terms of how much is it for FY ’24 out of that, that you need to do?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

I think you should divide it by — I mean, INR150 crores to INR200 crores year-on-year. By the time you come into production and cycle and SOPs and all, that should be the number.

Naysar Parikh — Native Capital — Analyst

Understood. Got it, got it. Okay. Thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Divya Daga from Vijit Global Securities. Please go ahead.

Divya Daga — Vijit Global Securities — Analyst

Hello, sir. My first question is can you provide the breakup for the new order intake we got in this quarter as well as for the whole year?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

We can’t hear you. Hello?

Divya Daga — Vijit Global Securities — Analyst

Hello?

Operator

Divya, may request you to repeat the question please.

Divya Daga — Vijit Global Securities — Analyst

Yeah, sure. I have a question that can you provide a fee breakup of order book for this quarter as well as for the whole year?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Breakup for the order book?

Divya Daga — Vijit Global Securities — Analyst

Yeah, the existing order book that the company have.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

I think it is in the presentation we uploaded, we have all data details of all the presentation. You can see the order book there on the Page number 2. It was multiple segments, multiple products, multiple territories, it’s already uploaded. You can look at from there please. It’s all detailed out there that how much is let’s say commercial vehicle, off-road vehicle, all that.

Divya Daga — Vijit Global Securities — Analyst

Yeah. So is it a complete order book that we have — you have given?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

It’s a new order. You can’t give the existing order as we keep on repeating if we do we keep on getting it.

Divya Daga — Vijit Global Securities — Analyst

Okay. And my next question is that as I saw the PBT, I have noticed that capital utilization for FY ’23 has fallen down a little bit. Is there any specific reason?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Capacity has come down a little bit. Utilization?

Divya Daga — Vijit Global Securities — Analyst

Capacity utilization, especially for forging.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Yeah. See, it happens in the last — every year, in the third half and fourth half — first quarter, we put up the new regime for the new financial year in advance.

Divya Daga — Vijit Global Securities — Analyst

Okay.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

In that slight effect of that [indecipherable], please. Because we need to — if we are growing, we need to put the machines in advance for the next year. That is what happens [Phonetic].

Divya Daga — Vijit Global Securities — Analyst

Okay. Thank you so much, sir.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahil Shah from Crown Capital. Please go ahead.

Rahil Shah — Crown Capital — Analyst

Hello, sir. Good afternoon. Am I audible?

Operator

Yes.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Yes.

Rahil Shah — Crown Capital — Analyst

Yes, yes. So, sir, the question is about the outlook for — on a more near-term basis. So I understand you’ve given your FY ’27 targets about reaching or doubling your revenues. So that is like roughly from this current stage, 20% CAGR will be growing for the next four years. But then let’s say, you mentioned you want to gain more market share and then you mentioned the industry overall is going to grow at a certain percentage on a CAGR basis. So given all these things, and let’s say the demand just suddenly shoot the way more than expected, are you in a position in the next one year to two years to grow more than this 20%?

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Of course. Number one, these are the positions given on the basis of the what we can foresee as of today, okay? And tomorrow Maruti double its production, of course, we will be growing that way. Tata Motors double its production as compared if we get huge demand comes up as volume increases, of course, we can deliver. This is the basis of this, we expect the industry to move out. If it is go — it goes better, of course, why not.

Rahil Shah — Crown Capital — Analyst

Okay. So you’re definitely in position. So let’s say, if there is a lot more demand than this 20% [Speech Overlap] 25.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

I mean we’re putting up a new plant. We’re moving our rubber facilities to Palwal now we have a larger plant there. We’re looking at a potential plant in Gujarat in the near future. We’re working on a case study with that. So that’s always ongoing. We put up a brand new center in Palwal for machine, brand new machine unit. And so we all are ready for that. It’s not that [indecipherable] demand with somebody else, no.

Rahil Shah — Crown Capital — Analyst

Okay. And the EBITDA margins also will move like in a stage like phase-wise manner from [Speech Overlap]

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

You can see now for the year, we have about 14.2% or 14.3% [Phonetic] whatever it is. Of course, as the volume goes up, it will improve, but it can’t jump from one year from 14% to 15%. It can’t jump, because there are cost escalation also, everything is there. And so we will go up to 15%, 16%, definitely. There is no way, we can’t go there.

Rahil Shah — Crown Capital — Analyst

But at least we can say that in this FY ’24, it will at least maintain sustain and then any improvement it will be possible.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

[indecipherable] far better.

Rahil Shah — Crown Capital — Analyst

Right, right. All right, sir. That’s it for now. Thank you and all the best.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Divya Daga from Vijit Global Securities. Please go ahead.

Divya Daga — Vijit Global Securities — Analyst

Hello, sir. My question is just what’s the update on capacity expansion in forging division?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

We are planning to induct approximately INR60 crores in forging division in next four years starting this year. So, I think this year should be around INR18 crores to INR20 crores.

Divya Daga — Vijit Global Securities — Analyst

INR18 crores to INR20 crores.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Yeah.

Divya Daga — Vijit Global Securities — Analyst

Is there any specific capacity that we can — that we will add in FY ’24?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

We are adding personal machining in a big way. In machining in the tool room and machining center, we are adding 30, 40 and 50 machines in that, plus we are adding presence in the — some other stock in the fourth shop [Phonetic], in this year only. That is our plan.

Divya Daga — Vijit Global Securities — Analyst

Okay. Thank you so much, sir.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nihal Jain from SK Securities. Please go ahead.

Nihal Jain — SK Securities — Analyst

Hello, hi. Thank you for the opportunity, sir. Can you throw some light on the customer mix for this quarter than have you added any new customers? And what are the plans for increasing the market share.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Yes, [indecipherable] mentioned to you that we constantly adding customers. We’ve added a customer in North America from the marine/garden equipment company. We’ve added a customer off-highway construction in the UK. We’re adding in Japan, we’re adding the customer. We’re looking at adding Volvo. We’ve added Russia to come in. So there’s a lot going on. So it’s like a very long list. I mean, I got over 100 customers. So difficult to pinpoint, but it’s an ongoing process. Not only adding customers is actually increase the share of business with the customer, like, for example, if Tata Motors a company, let’s say, INR1,000 a component. Now I’m doing with the INR400 a component, looking to do INR600 a component. So that’s how we keep looking at it, not only, but keep it also horizontally.

Nihal Jain — SK Securities — Analyst

Got it, sir. And also what our customers in the gasket and forging business like how much was top five or top 10 contribute to these business.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Only for gasket and forging or for the group?

Nihal Jain — SK Securities — Analyst

For the gasket and forging, sir.

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Just a minute. Yeah. In the gasket, top customers are Bajaj Auto, Tata Cummins, Tata Motors, VE Commercial, Hero MotoCorp, John Deere, Jaguar Land Rover, these are top customers. And in the forging, our top customers are BMW, Dana Italy, Jaguar Land Rover, GKN Driveline, Carraro, Dana, again India, these are my top customers.

Nihal Jain — SK Securities — Analyst

Okay. Noted, sir. And so how much are these the contributing to the business like, for example, how much are the top five contributing to the business?

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

For the business or the division?

Nihal Jain — SK Securities — Analyst

Sorry?

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

For the business or the division?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

For division.

Nihal Jain — SK Securities — Analyst

Division.

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Division, I’ve not taken the percentage but you can calculate. With Bajaj Auto, we did a business of INR67 crores, and Tata Cummins, we did business of INR63 crores, Tata Motors INR26 crores, VE, INR23 [Phonetic] crores, Hero MotoCorp around INR17 crores, John Deere, INR30 [Phonetic] crores, so Jaguar INR14 crores. And then forging, we did a business around INR42 crores, with BMW, Dana INR41 crores, Jaguar Land Rover INR26 crores, GKN Driveline, Italy is INR19 crores, Carraro, Italy is INR16 crores, that is our number.

Nihal Jain — SK Securities — Analyst

Okay. Noted, sir. That was very helpful. Thank you.

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Harsh Shah from Tophill Invest [Phonetic]. Please go ahead.

Harsh Shah — Tophill Invest — Analyst

Hello.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Hello.

Harsh Shah — Tophill Invest — Analyst

Good evening, sir.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Hi, good evening.

Harsh Shah — Tophill Invest — Analyst

I have two questions. First is, how do we see the overall demand scenario panning out? And also, we are focusing on exports and increasing its contribution over the last five years. And what is its future growth prospects. Can you elaborate on the thing?

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, I can do that. First of all, I must say that the demand is good in this quarter, okay, it’s better than the first quarter of last year, number one. And secondly, export demand is good. And how we are going to — we are adding more customers has just added — Anuj has explained we added a customer in forging division in UK, just the development has started. I think that is a very big business of INR150 crores in the next four years on that business. Plus we are adding, talking to a new customer in the US also in forging division in a big way. So that demand will be there. BMW is giving us new parts, the production, new generation parts of our EV vehicle, the production will start from next financial year.

So in Marelli, also they are looking for new businesses with Dana [Phonetic], because they’re talking to their partners, got some buyback that is also going on. So these are the major plus gasket and heat shield also we are getting very good traction from the overseas customer as Anuj told you from Japan, from US and from Russia. So we don’t think so any problem in growing our — we foresee that with these order books and with the board traction going on, I think we are able to achieve our target about 30% of our growth — total business being exported for 25%. These are the broad businesses we are talking about.

Harsh Shah — Tophill Invest — Analyst

Okay, sir. Second question that since we are also expanding in our non-auto space segment, and we have also been receiving orders for the sale. Can you tell us about the growth opportunity in this space?

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

These numbers are not very big. We are small, but it’s a start. Let’s see with as [indecipherable] started I think that, that business will also which is at around INR10 crores that business will go further because we are talking about some of this is Japan for that business. That will not be a very good business but that would be GE, for example, JCB [indecipherable] JCB, et cetera, it should be over 2,000 business. It should be around 10% of that.

Harsh Shah — Tophill Invest — Analyst

Okay, sir. It was very helpful, sir. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jigar Shah from AK Securities. Please go ahead.

Jigar Shah — AK Securities — Analyst

Yeah. Hi, thank you so much for this opportunity. Can you discuss Q4 and FY ’23 performance across all segments, two-wheeler, passenger vehicle and other segments?

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Sorry, we can’t hear you.

Jigar Shah — AK Securities — Analyst

Can you please discuss the Q4 and FY ’23 performance across all segments, two-wheeler, passenger vehicles and other segments?

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

[indecipherable] Do you want performance for division wise or for the company as a whole, company?

Jigar Shah — AK Securities — Analyst

Division wise.

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Division wise. Just a moment. Give me a second, please.

Jigar Shah — AK Securities — Analyst

No problem, sir.

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Yeah. In the domestic business — you want division wise, let me bring out the numbers. Yes. In the gasket and heat shields business, my — for the [indecipherable] 29% is two-wheeler, three-wheeler, passenger vehicles 2%, HCV is 30%, LCV 17%, agri off-road are 12%, other 10% [Phonetic], okay?

Jigar Shah — AK Securities — Analyst

Yeah.

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Now coming to my forging business, yeah, forging business two-wheeler and three-wheeler 7.3, passenger vehicle 43.6, and agri offroad are 37.2, other 16.3. So these are the — sorry, these all on the consol basis [Phonetic], now the way the percentage, sorry, these are the number. Two-wheeler and three-wheeler, 7%, 42% passenger vehicle, 26% agri and 16% others. Now coming to other divisions. Other division Nippon Leakless Talbros 95.5% is two-wheeler, three-wheeler, 2% passenger vehicles, and 2% others. Now coming to Marelli Chassis business, passenger vehicle 91.4%, others 8.6%. Lastly the Marugo Rubber, my passenger vehicle 64.7, LCV 11.3%, others 24%.

Jigar Shah — AK Securities — Analyst

Yeah, sir. That is helpful, sir. So my second question is, like, can you please discuss about each JV performance during the quarter and since JVs are at an infection point today and they are a major growth prospects. So can you discuss on the same?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Joint ventures are doing extremely well. If you look at Talbros Marugo, I just mentioned to you that they have got the order for the biofuel hoses, which the government in India has initiated. So these are very strong products with higher revenue content from the earlier hoses. So that’s going to keep going up as in more vehicle represent Maruti Suzuki.

In the Marelli joint venture, we do a lot of components for Tata Motors and Maruti for suspension, chassis and electric EV motor drive frames where again, the car front end is going up to a higher level, like INR3,000, INR4,000 [Phonetic]. So that we induce a number of vehicles sold, you’ll see growth out there. As also got exports in Marelli joint venture, which is happening, especially in all the E-Drive Toyota [Phonetic] of Jaguar Land Rover going forward.

And Nippon Leakless joint venture is doing well with a high container localization of components and with the two-wheeler segment again picked up. That is the reason that they want to grow. And we are expecting in the next four years, we have given the projection also in next four years, we expect by [indecipherable] turnover should go up from last year turnover of INR200 crores [Phonetic] approximately and goes to around INR700 crores in the next four years, my EBITDA margin in that business, which is around 9%, which is around 10.5% to go up to 14%.

Similarly, my Marugo division should also grow exponentially from 70 off 85 [Phonetic] to around INR190 crores to INR200 crores in next four years with EBITDA margin, again, moving up from existing 7%, 8% to 12%, 13%. These are our potentials for that.

Jigar Shah — AK Securities — Analyst

That was helpful, sir. Thank you so much. All the best.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Prachi Sharma from Ace [Phonetic] Capital. Please go ahead.

Prachi Sharma — Ace Capital — Analyst

Hello, sir. Good evening and congratulations on a great set of numbers.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Thank you.

Prachi Sharma — Ace Capital — Analyst

Sir, I just have a few questions. If you could answer what was the capacity utilization across all segments?

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Capacity is a role — [indecipherable]

Prachi Sharma — Ace Capital — Analyst

Exactly.

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Yeah. Actually, for the year it was around 85% in the forging division, 70% [Phonetic] for gasket division, 7% [Phonetic] of forging division, Nippon Leakless 55%, Marelli Talbros 73%, my Marugo Rubber 85%, hoses 80%.

Prachi Sharma — Ace Capital — Analyst

Okay, sir. And sir, do we have any capacity expansion planned for the next year?

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Yes. Already, we have done that debate, let’s talk about gasket. I think we are in the process of expanding our capacity to take care of our demand for the third quarter and fourth quarter. Already it was six months the demand we have assured. We are adding more machines. And in various segments — various sectors, wherever we feel this gap. And on the forging side, we are adding four machining because a lot of demand from machine [indecipherable] of the JCB is coming. We are adding more machining and I think that will be completed in next six months and it will take care of the sales in our demand of JCB. And [indecipherable] of course, we are expecting for the business and for the [indecipherable] we are expanding our capacity in Pune this year. In Marugo, we added the major capacity expansion in the last quarter, which will take care of our next year more or less that is complete.

Prachi Sharma — Ace Capital — Analyst

Okay. Okay. And sir, what kind of revenue are we expecting from this expansion?

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Of course, we are looking at 15%, 20% growth this year.

Prachi Sharma — Ace Capital — Analyst

Okay. Okay. Okay, sir. And sir, just my last question.

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Altogether.

Prachi Sharma — Ace Capital — Analyst

Okay. Yeah. Got it, got it. So just the last question. What was the growth in EBITDA and PAT on account of better efficiency, which we have been targeting.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Pardon, pardon, sorry.

Prachi Sharma — Ace Capital — Analyst

What was the growth in EBITDA and PAT on account of better efficiency?

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

It is very difficult to calculate [Speech Overlap] whether good product mix, exports, controls, localization. Sorry, it is very difficult to calculate main point or 1% [Phonetic] there, it is very difficult to calculate that, altogether.

Prachi Sharma — Ace Capital — Analyst

Okay, okay. No problem, no problem, sir. Thank you so much. That’s all from my end.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Thanks.

Operator

Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, that would be our last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference back to the management for their closing remarks. Thank you, and over to you.

Anuj Talwar — Joint Managing Director

Yeah, thank you so much for being on the call. We are pretty bullish about our company. We’re pretty bullish about being a hedge automobile component manufacturing supplier to global OEMs and domestic OEMs. And we’re looking at a good performance in the coming years. And we thank you for your patience [Phonetic]. Thank you.

Navin Juneja — Director and Group Chief Financial Officer

Thank you.

Operator

[Operator Closing Remarks]