Interview with Seemant Shukla, Chief Business Officer, JM Financial Asset Management Ltd.

Radhakrishnan Chonat : Dear listeners, welcome to another compelling episode of the AlphaStreet Fund Manager series. And today, we have the privilege of hosting a very distinguished guest, Mr. Seemant Shukla, who currently serves as the Chief Business Officer at JM Financial Mutual Funds. 

Now with an illustrious career spanning over two decades in the BFSI sector, Mr. Shukla brings a wealth of experience and strategic acumen to the table. And as I said, he’s the Chief Business Officer, he plays a very pivotal role in shaping JM Fund’s future, and we are eager, like you, my dear listeners, to delve into the intricacies of his responsibilities and try to learn from him. His journey so far, and what are the unique strategies the fund follows and his overall perspectives on the evolving market dynamics.

So once again, join us for an insightful discussion as we try to gain first-hand insights into the world of mutual funds from the perspective of one of its key architects, Mr. Seeman Shukla. Mr. Shukla-ji, welcome to the AlphaStreet Fund Manager series. 

Seemant Shukla: Thank you. Thank you, Radhakrishnan for inviting me on AlphaStreet. It’s a privilege to be here, and would like to share whatever learning we have as a personal, in an individual capacity, as well as what we are doing at JM. Over to you.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent, excellent. So, let’s start off Mr. Shukla. Your career in the BFSI sector has been both diverse and impressive. I was looking at your profile. Now could you share with us a snapshot of your journey so far for the listeners, highlighting some of the key milestones that shaped your professional trajectory.

Seemant Shukla: Okay. So, I come from a background of both mother, father was Class I Officers, State and Central government, so a typical middleclass kid. Studied in Central school, Kendriya Vidyalaya at various places, and have been a part of, on a periphery of cantonment, always many places where I studied were part of armed forces area, so I have a lot of friends during that time. So that one thing, which I got an early exposure, I can say so. And typical normal middleclass school boy turned into a graduation, I did in a very different subject.

People don’t know too much. I did in Industrial Fish and Fisheries, so primarily in North India. I hail from Central India part, and this was a vocational course started late-90s only. So I took a plunge in that, and did Fisheries in graduation. So, my elder brother was in Telecom side, and you remember ‘95-‘96 onward, Indian Telecom took a very different league as an industry. So, I was very fond and fascinated by the new private sector telecom company coming in. 

My elder brother and usually you sibling — you always look for elder sibling. So, I was very keen to get into telecom, but I was not from an engineering background, so I took a plunge into it an IT company called IndiaMART InterMESH Limited initially.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Right, right.

Seemant Shukla: Post my MBA in 2000, I moved to Delhi from Central India, Gwalior, the next large city is Delhi, so everybody rushed to that side. And there I worked for some time, and during that time I just cleared NSDL examination, DP Operation. It was coming up in 2000, and these – NISM — what is called as NISM, that I did.

And because of that I think at that time, very few people were there and there was a lot of demand for DP Operations. So I joined ICICI Limited company called, ICICI Capital. It was a Distribution Company, and ICICI Limited at that time and bank got DP license.

This is a pre-ICICI merger. So I joined that company at Indore, ICICI Capital Center, Indore, worked there, great time, a great learning place. So I spent six years there initially, and did all liability, cross-sell, whatever was launched during those time of ICICI, I was part of distribution side. Post merger, worked in ICICI Bank until 2006, grew pretty fast, and became a Regional Sales Manager for investment piece for MP and Chhattisgarh. Earlier it was MP, before 2000, and post that Chhattisgarh. So that was journey till Bank, and then I moved to General Insurance. Moved to Mumbai. 

A small stint in ICICI in Delhi also, but within some time I moved to Bombay – Mumbai, 2006, and there I moved to General Insurance. Started bancassurance channel of Reliance General Insurance under Reliance Capital purview this company came in. And 2011, I think I was there and handling three channels. So Banca, Travel and Digital, it was called as Alternate channel at that time. So telesales, digital and DST channel was a one channel; and travel plus bancassurance, these were the channel which I was handling. 

2011 I moved back to banking again, I moved to a bank called Dhanlaxmi Bank. There I was driving a sales piece from branch, like cross-sell liability, third-party, online broking and everything, handling the branch channel sales. 

Post that, I moved to Asset Management side first time in 2012, joining Edelweiss in 2012, Edelweiss AMC. It was a pretty small AMC at that time, some INR200-300 crore. I worked there for 10 years in Edelweiss Financial Group, out of which six years I was a part of asset management, mutual fund, AIF and PMS, all those things. 

In 2018, I moved to set up the business of mid-market wealth. So they had a Retail as well as Private Banking. Mid-market is basically INR2-3 crore net value – net-worth value to INR20-30 crore clients. So that business I set up, under their wealth piece, which is now called Nuvama, I was part of that. So I spent 10 years, and then again got this opportunity. 

So commonality within all these things you will see that, all the company when I joined were a part of – in a moving-into-a-scale mode, be it ICICI of 2000 to Reliance General. I remember, Reliance General was INR150-170 crore premium in 2006, and in next two years we were INR2000 crore plus.

So same with Edelweiss, INR200 crore. When I left, I think Edelweiss AMC was around 12,000-13,000 crore of Active and some 4,000-4,500 AIF, PMS. So, I found one commonality that wherever I’ve been a part it’s in a more of a scale-up. So be it a greenfield project or a brownfield project, but usually I’ve been a part of those journey, I think that — here also, I have joined when Mr. Amitabh Mohanty joined as a CEO. So, a lot of changes has happened in JM Asset Management in last 2, 2.5, 3 years.

Mr. Satish Ramanathan has joined as CIO, 3 years back. Mr. Amitabh Mohanty, who has been a veteran in the industry has joined 2.5 years back. I’ll be completing next month, 2 years. Apart from that, entire team has seen a lot of new, fresh talent coming in. So that’s the common thing which I can say that been a part of.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent, excellent. So now basically, you are a veteran at setting up and scaling up the enterprises. With that in mind, now in your current role as the Chief Business Officer at JM Financials Mutual Fund division, right? I’m sure you play a very pivotal role in steering this fund’s business objectives.

Now my listeners will be very interested in knowing what are the roles and responsibilities? And how do you align the vision of the fund with a broader business goals and how do you go about it? 

Seemant Shukla: So, I’ll say that it’s an entire team effort. Yes, a few people may become maybe a spokesperson or maybe a point of contact, but broadly it’s — I handle a part, which is non-customer service, non-fund management. I handle the sales, retail, institutional, digital plus product and marketing. So that’s my broad purview of area of working you can say. 

How we are planning to build? Because, as you know that JM is seeing as more of a revived way of going back to the market with entire senior management a lot of change of card, plus a lot of addition into our research side on fund management ops also, technology also, so it’s a revamped version. And our thought is to be, and our CEO also say very clearly that it’s a very important aspect that we can give a consistent experience to the client who are investing with us. We should be seen as a solid dependable partner by our Distributor and MFDs. And that’s the reason we call our retail team, Partner Solution Group. We don’t call them a channel or a distribution, we say partner solution group because that should be in their mind what team they belong to.

So, our overall thought is to build up a good consistent performance, because ultimately market has its own cycle. Fund management team do have their thought. In certain period it does well. In certain period it might not do so well. But our thought is can we manage a consistency? And that consistency if built longer period of time, definitely gives you a lot of loyal investors. And that’s our thought.

JM has been a great brand in other spheres of life, primarily if you know, investment banking, institutional equity, ARC, broking business. One of the few company. I don’t know whether you and your audience know that it has completed 50 years now in existence. Nimesh bhai started in 1973. And among the listed BFSI, one of the oldest now. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: True, true.

Seemant Shukla: So, that 50-year legacy talks about trust. There are many businesses where we are the market leaders. And I’m sure that with our focus approach, with focusing on client consistent experience, we should be able to make AMC also in that league table. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent, excellent. Yes. No, JM Financial, the first thing that comes to mind is the institutional business, as you rightly said. So, AMC is probably the baby that is establishing itself. So, with that in mind yeah, Mr. Shukla, now we have seen the explosion in mutual fund industry with very many entrants, new entrants, right from the fintech space, from the distribution space coming in. It’s an already crowded market per se. So other than the pedagogy, of course, the JM financial brand bringing, are there any unique approaches that will set yourself?

You did mention consistency as being one thing, but are there anything else in terms of a new approach to distribution? How are you trying to differentiate yourself in a crowded market? At the same time, trying to educate the people to invest in mutual funds. 

Seemant Shukla: So two, three things I think for any investment product, be it BFSI, be it banking, insurance, mutual fund, AIF, PMS, important aspect is a trust factor. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: True. 

Seemant Shukla: I think, that JM brings on table, right? It’s a legacy brand known; very well-known people know it. I think we just need to build on that trust around everything. That trust will be the core, and paraphernalia we can create by giving a right experience, digitally-equipped client servicing, physical or digital presence of our team, connect with the distributor. I think, asset management is a very routine business. It takes time. It’s a model of retail patience. And I think, that’s what we understood that you can’t do too many new things.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: No.

Seemant Shukla: Means, yeah, you can try few stuff where your servicing can be better, definitely. So, with the help of digital, your reach can be better with the help of physical and digital. Your fund management, as I said, that’s the core of this business. Ultimately, that’s the experience of your product. That’s the offering you are giving to the client. So that would be the core. And definitely we’ll try to create other things which help, apart from core, to scale up this business faster. 

Our key focus as far as near future and right now presence is confirmed [ph]. As our CEO also stated very clearly that, will be primarily active fund manager. Because we feel that India is a market where returns can be generated by right kind of sector allocation and right kind of need [ph], and also if you can control your drawdown in bad markets. So these are the few broad tenets of where we — how we want to build this AMC. Yes, tactically passive, something comes that can be looked at, but primarily it’s an active fund management.

Just to give you a perspective, currently in last 1.5 year, or let’s say two years, we might have hired almost 109, 110 people, and we are still. So that’s the type of thing I am telling you that this is a sea change. We are not only building the sales and fund management. We have got people from large AMCs, large outfit, to head our ops, digital initiative and other functions.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent. 

Seemant Shukla: So that’s a — research team, we have built up at a very small AUM also, when our equity AUM was hovering around INR700 crore, last one year we have started moving up. But we started building. So we are not doing anything which is more of a tactical in approach in terms of building up the team, so we have got now five, six people in research only in last 1, 1.5 year. Satish has put in a lot of processes after he joined in.

So that way, you will see that this is more of an investment period. And obviously when the market is doing decent, we are also doing a lot of engagement with our partner across. We opened some three location point of touch in last 1, 1.5 year.

We had earlier branches; like in North, we had Chandigarh, Delhi, Jaipur, we opened Lucknow; in Western market, we had Baroda, we had Ahmedabad, we opened Baroda, we have recently Indore, we opened Indore, we had Nasik, we had — we have Mumbai and Pune apart from that. So our approach is mix of digital, physical. We should be presence in the market and try to create good amount of experience for our partner and investor. 

And obviously, engagement plays an important role. We have a very open-loop feedback mechanism, where we talk to our partner, be it our thought process around coming into a new NFO. You will see that in last 1.5, 2 years we have just come with one or two NFOs. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Correct.

Seemant Shukla: On equity side, only midcap. Whereas all the new AMCs, which have come or even the older one, has launched lot of NFOs. So, our thought is built it up properly in a strong way. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat:  Excellent, excellent. So moving along on the same line, the markets as you rightly said, are at an all-time high and everybody including the sabji-wala is a bull now. The financial landscape, veterans like you will know, is ever-evolving, right? So in your view, what are the current trends? Or sort of let’s say, what are the challenges that the mutual fund industry faces? 

And okay, one thing that we keep hearing is beyond the 30 top cities. So any unique insights into the customer mind space, landscape? It’s a bull market, or whether it’s a bear market, are they going to withdraw? So any sort of insight into going to the Bharat, sort of? 

Seemant Shukla: Well, yeah you have touched a very good point. So definitely market is in absolute number term is all-time high. And in certain segment you will see valuation is also on an upper side. But as a country we are growing pretty fast, if you see. One of the large economy, which is growing at a good decent place. And post-COVID, you can see that there’s a lot of volatility has come in terms of perception of certain countries or in terms of actual delivery of certain country. 

Everybody has seen a high inflationary pressure than printing of money and that resulted into high inflation. And now people are trying to control and all those things. So interest rate has zoomed up from across the world, right? So, at that moment, India seems to be look — little relatively stable than others, currently. And good part has been we have seen 2000 earlier — 2000 market movement, in 2008 and 2020 was a deep cut and came back V-shaped recovery.

But if you see the domestic money has started supporting market levels. Earlier we were very much dependent on FII, let’s say 2008. What money has been withdrawn post-2000 — in recent past, let’s say ’21-‘22 time, I think much lesser money or half money or lesser than half money was withdrew by FII during 2008, and we saw what debacle in terms of fall of the market. This time it didn’t happen. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Right. Correct. True.

Seemant Shukla: So one thing is that, India as a country, two, three things which you can see at a long term trend. And then I’ll talk about mutual fund, maybe a B-30 and top-30 what you have touched. As a country, we have reached now let’s say 3.8 -3.9 trillion, the official data will come. So that makes it our per capita income plus 2,400-2,500 on a rough estimate of 140 crore people.

So country has moved from first, let’s say ‘90s era, late-‘90s and 2000, w0e were per capita around let’s say 400-500 types [ph]. Core focus was basic, roti, kapda and makaan.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Makaan. Correct. 

Seemant Shukla: Later on, 2000 onward when we had decent growth in equity market as well, in terms of numbers and everything, India moved from let’s say 500 to let’s say 1,200 till next decade, approximately. And country moved from basic beyond basics. So, basically you were into basic and roti, kapda; beyond is bike, dish TV, mobile phone and all those things we have seen. 

Country now moved into more of an aspirational side, in terms of people don’t want just basic. Basic is given, right? And now, today if you want to buy a small hatchback car you can go and off the shelf, cut the check and get the car on the same day or maybe the next day, right? With number. If you want to go for a mid-size SUV plus let’s say, INR18 lakh, INR20 lakh, up to INR50 lakh, you will feel that there is a huge demand and you have a waiting period.

And not only for the car segment. Even if you go for a bike, which is two-wheeler, India has a large two-wheeler market. You want to buy a normal 100 cc, 135 cc or 150 cc bike, you can get it on the spot. Whereas for a high-end cars – high-end bikes, you have to wait for three to nine months. That’s one change. And it has changed in terms of consumerism also, if you see. A lot of people say that market is earning [ph], because economy is growing. 

There’s a market buffet index is called market cap by GDP. Long term average is say, let’s say 78-80 and currently we might be at 100, but it changes of every country. Long term average also changes if you remain elevated. When we were kids, I’m sure you are also ‘80 and ‘90 kids like me. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Correct.

Seemant Shukla: At our childhood time, if you remember in our house there was a one Colgate paste, remember? 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Correct, correct. 

Seemant Shukla: There was one for entire family.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Correct. 

Seemant Shukla: Dada, Dadi.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Nana, Nani.

Seemant Shukla: Only buy one paste, right? Today just go and see your own bathroom and see that stack of type of paste. You will have a small kid, who is having a Spongebob, Colgate, 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Barbie dolls paste. 

Seemant Shukla: Somebody will have a paste. So that shelf has gone up by four times. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: True. 

Seemant Shukla: Interesting.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Very true. 

Seemant Shukla: Same way we used to take maybe one soap. Today, you will find soap, liquid and others. And it is not — it is across. I’m just talking about middle-class. So, these are the things, which has changed the country and consumerism has come, market hasn’t become big. And market is an — equity market or a debt market, all these capital markets are a reflection of economy. The way we are growing, economy will grow, then definitely. 

Maybe it might be leading or lagging. It cannot be — but at a long term you will find that whatever earning of companies are reflected in your NIFTY growth also. If you check a long-term data, you will find that. So that is one thing. So country is changing. We will cross three $4,000 let’s say by 2027. Let’s say we become a 5 trillion economy 2008. So you will be around 5,000-6,000-7,000 depending on various estimates.

Obviously once you move from beyond basic to aspiration, then you get into a settlement of financial safety for future. What lifestyle I am affording today after retirement, 20 years down the line, I should be able to afford that. And at that time, I will do more investment for my future need. Currently aspirational is my today’s need. I want to buy a large car, a big car or a big house and all those things. That’s today’s requirement.

Once you cross this aspiration, mere pet bhar jata jo kehthe hain. Then you get into that. Okay, let me safeguard my future and maintain. And at that time, a lot of financialization of asset or a capital market investment also zoom up. That’s a typical phenomenon. So, we will see that also. 

Coming to mutual fund part. You said that lot of AMCs are there, new ones are coming. I think the way country will grow, U.S. has got I think 250 or 300 plus number of AMC and they are thriving. And the best part is in 2013-14, whatever was the size of industry, let’s say 12 – 11-12, if I’m not wrong, a few AMC are nearing that level only in terms of.

So growth will come from various quarter of the country. And I think, people who are true to the label, sticking to the right thing will definitely build up. And we have seen lot of example of not so very well known Indian name, in Indian context have done phenomenally well.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: True.

Seemant Shukla: Last part of your question was that, how the top-30 and B-30. So there’s an interesting data, which I was reading, that the new money or the money which is coming from as there’s a segmentation in mutual fund industry top-30 and below top-30, T-30 and B-30 as acronym. Number of new folio, and since this division has happened and a lot of work has gone, I think, lot of distributors are working in these small cities.

A lot of awareness by regulator and then industry body like AMFI, Mutual Funds Sahi Hai, and especially, with Cricket Mania and all those things, I think it has caught up. At least SIP has caught up. So on SIP side I think numbers are more or less similar range, now number of towns, so that define a folio. And let’s assume that — and I personally feel the metro guys will have a per person more folio than a non-so-metro guys – non-metro guys. So in that terms I think B-30 is also contributing sizable amount of number now in terms of folios.

Obviously, as you take out metropolitan — or a corporate money which is there in large metros because of liquid overnight and all those funds, you will see on equity AUM on a retail side, B-30 are doing phenomenally well. Their percentage contribution has gone up significantly. I don’t have a readymade data, otherwise I would have shared it with you. But I was reading the report, and it says that it significantly jumped. And in folio terms, it’s I think 40%-42% types, what I remember vaguely, not sure, but that’s around that number. So I think it’s growing pretty fast. 

And as a country, financialization if you see, with banking now with Jan Dhan of 50. So it’s not only mutual fund per se. I personally believe that with INR85 crore-INR90 crore now, with INR50 crore out of which coming out of Jan Dhan. So a lot of unbanked has become bank, right? Bank, let’s say we are now 16 crore plus folios, approximately in mutual fund. 10 year back must be around 3.5 crore or 4 crore. So 4x jump, so mutual — those who were banking has moved into mutual fund. And similar growth story you will see in other asset platform like asset management platform the way AIF are growing, those people who are H&I who has made money, has moved in.

So there’s a transition which is happening across the spectrum. Those who are unbanked became bank. Those who are banking and doing FD and other thing has moved into SIP and mutual fund and other thing and so on and so forth. So that’s the core of I think India’s growth story. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent, excellent. You touched upon the investor education, especially from the AMFI. The Mutual Fund Sahi Hai campaign has really helped. As you rightly said, people from FDs are now thinking about SIP-ing in mutual fund that has become — the large market size that we have in terms of investor education, is there any wish list you have? 

Okay, maybe the youngsters are coming in. The guys who are in their 40s, 50s with money probably are still reluctant. They are still, because of their past experience with market crashes, they are still stuck with their FDs, gold and probably — any major shift like a QR code movement, the UPI movement, are there any wish list for the mutual fund industry? 

Seemant Shukla: I’ll not say wish list. I think, things shapes up automatically. Market sets its own equilibrium. But just to give you certain thing that as the country’s per capita income grows, awareness grows. Education level has gone up across. Definitely digital movement of this country. Digital realization. Aadhaar stack and all the paraphernalia, which has been created around Aadhaar has reduced the friction and has given a reach to anybody who is having a smartphone, even a non-smartphone also have some feature by which you can do that. So, I think that’s one part.

Another part is young generation is pretty confident in terms of their career, their future, their options in terms of doing great things. Startup is separate. I think, in general also. People are much more confident, and when you are confident about your future, you are ready to take slightly relative higher risk.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: True. 

Seemant Shukla: Even if — and certainly there is a disclaimer that I can say that in last 8-10 years, we have not seen a lullness of market which is long enough, to check your patience. But broadly, the number of DMAT account which has opened in last four or five years has significantly is 3x, 4x , right? From 3-4 crore to now 11-12 crore. So people are doing. 

Obviously, there’s a cause of worry also that people are just jumping on the derivative side, which might cause a big harm. And some data is also being shared by regulator. But broadly, if you see, people are now more confident, they are earning better. Their lifestyle has changed. And that is a true reflection that saver country will become a country of investors. I think that’s the one trajectory which we are passing through. And obviously, it has many things. Digital has definitely added up awareness program, understanding. 

Digital education also. I think the amount, you can — if whatever you want to read, today you can read. When we were kids in ‘90s, for getting a research paper, you have to go to library. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Library only. 

Seemant Shukla: On a router. Tuck, tuck, tuck, tuck, on our Internet, which was 32 or 24 — 64 kbps, right? 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Yes.

Seemant Shukla: So, I think that has added. But as a wish list, I think we have a long way to go as a country, as an investor, when your maid coming to your place on Diwali bonus, if she says bhayya mutual fund mei dalna hai, I think that would be the right time. We are long way to go. They are still with their own local market or a corporate society or a corporate — or any bank. But I personally feel that would be the right moment to celebrate and enjoy that. That way we have to build up. So that’s my end milestone, you can say.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: That’s beautifully articulated. And you rightly captured that we are a country of savers, I think we need to move to a country of investors. Excellent. 

Coming back, shifting gears a little bit, let’s talk about your leadership approach. So, you are a builder as well as a scaler. Now from a leadership standpoint, it’s easy to establish something, to set up something, but the hardest part is to scale from zero to ten. My listeners, including me, would love to know what are your thoughts on scaling up business? What are the challenges that you have faced and how did you overcome? And are there any principles that you follow in scaling, setting up team and et cetera? 

Seemant Shukla: I think one word which I usually closely associate myself with is passion. Because I remember when I moved into general insurance, fire insurance means to me a fire-wala insurance. I didn’t know about OD and TP and all those terminology. If you have a passion, you will learn, you will get — Indians are mentally jugadu, that you will learn, understand, all those 2004, ’05, ’06, internet was not so great in terms of what accessibility and data is there.

I think, passion defines me more. Whatever I do, I do with a lot of passion. Otherwise, I’ll not do. So, that’s one thing which I found as my personal trait. If you want to build up, you will learn, you will understand, you will connect with right kind of people to get it done. That’s one thing that defines me. 

As far as leadership concerned, mine is consultative broadly, but in certain things, I’ll not use the word autocratic, but in certain things, monologue. And that’s not because I feel right. Many a time — sometime your team member might not see the holistic picture at 30,000, so that sometime built up, but broadly it’s more of a consultative.

I believe that everybody wants to do good in their life. We have to act more like an enabler to them. There are many theories around leader, manager, and all those things I don’t believe in firmly in any sort of, what do you call straight-jacketing of thing. I always believe in one thing. Be muscle, not a bone. Bone is hard and with age it decays, it breaks, it needs plaster. Muscle with age also, you can build it up. By doing exercise, they are flexible. So that’s my thought on leadership that I don’t have any fixated view on anything. I can be wrong.

And with the young generation, obviously you have to be having a good ears, because their learning curve is much faster, their attentive time is much lesser, and they know much more than now older generation. So better to be consultative and understand what’s going around. At least with the kids of 20 to 30s, or 25-30. I think that’s my approach. That I have changed. 

Earlier I used to think, no, we all think in the same way. Once you become a father of teenager, you understand that no, what is changing? And you have to be adaptive and hear what others are saying.

That’s my thought. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent. You mentioned you are a KV product. And as a KV product myself, I was called the Army brat, when I came out of KV because I was all over India. So any lessons? Life lessons? By being part of that organization where you meet people from almost every state, you have a friend from almost every state, that’s basically living in a foreign country. Every state is unique, their culture. So what do you bring to the table is unique as a KV product. Any extra pointers on being a KV product and how it has helped you? 

Seemant Shukla: I think, adaptability with various cultures. So I worked with primarily I worked initially in northern market when I was in a branch and other side, right? Central India or North. So that has a very different culture. If you go down below, when the culture changes. And there’s a thing every 50km you see that change in dialects and everything. 

I think that was the one thing which I learned in KV, because I remember when I was in Sagar Cantt., it’s in Central India near Bhopal, a lot of my friends father were in peacekeeping force in Sri Lanka. I’m talking about ’89-‘90s. Remember Reynolds pen, India never used to have 0.45. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: 0.45 yes.

Seemant Shukla: We never had. India always had 0.40, so they used to get it for us. And we had people from Bihar, from Karnataka, from Kerala. So it always gave me — I always understood what is Payasam, when I — even I was a kid, because somebody got it that way or what is Pongal, and obviously Gujarati stuff also.

So that gave me a good idea around when I moved into a various geography, easy to adapt, to understand the culture, because I had some — otherwise you initially remain in shock. And obviously when you move to Mumbai, which is a melting pot of all culture and everything. Team members are from various background and other things, that helped.

I worked with a Southwest bank also, which helped me. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Dhanlaxmi 

Seemant Shukla: Which actually helped me. Yeah, yeah. So I had a lot of friends from South, during my school days. So that also gave me a very comforting thing to start. Otherwise, I have to maybe six-month time as a lag time I would have taken, which didn’t happen.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Very good. Very insightful and I’m sure the listeners would agree very well with you. 

Seemant Shukla: Only who are of ‘80s and ‘90s. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Yes.

Seemant Shukla: Also that I think things have changed a lot in this country. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: And ’80-‘90s KV kids. Excellent. Finally, before we wrap up on a more personal note, this is something that I ask all my guests.

Could you share with us your top three favorite books that have influenced your professional journey or have left a lasting impact on your perspective? 

Seemant Shukla: My basic interest as a curious person, I always think that why certain countries have done phenomenally well, some lagged and I read lot about indian states also. Within our country there are state with per capita which is very different to human index and everything. So I read that part. 

Second is, obviously having studied with armed forces guy, how to improvise your self efficiency and discipline.

So also on like I love the book, I recommend: Atomic Habit is good. It gives you a very practical way of how to get into a certain habit. Rather than giving a big gyan. 

For money purpose: Psychology of Money, Clear Thinking.

One book I’ll recommend, those who are interested in country’s economy, socio factor as well as cultural factor. I think, Richard Mukherjee’s: Breakout Nation. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Breakout Nation 

Seemant Shukla: A very good. It gives a lot of perspective beyond economy. Why are certain countries? So, these are the things, and lot of thing from these book, I tried to also check with our local data. 

So there’s a saying that I remember one data point which he shared around Thailand, that if the center of economic activity is very centralized in one city, you will see lot of effect on their thought process surrounding that city. And usually in overall development, those countries, those states leave out or other places in terms of overall number. There are certain places. And I checked up with our Indian state also.

If you have three, four centers of growth, not only one city, then chances are that these states are doing slightly better than on overall index, be it of ease of doing [ph], human index, education, poverty, industrialization, per capita crop and all those things. So that I found very interesting and very insightful. Although he gave on a very various country-side. So these are the things, which I usually…

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Nice, nice. Mr. Shukla, any parting words for the young generation you mentioned about how being a parent of a teenager, your perspective changed. So for the next generation, any piece of advice before we wrap up? 

Seemant Shukla: I firmly believe that by that time you understand that your parents says right, your kids start saying that you are wrong. We are in that sandwich age. But certainly, I think few things come with the experience, that only I understood after having that experience, right? 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: True.

Seemant Shukla: And the new kids are very anxious, which I feel now. Especially with teenagers. Their time of attentiveness is less. Maybe because everything is happening so fast. I’ll not blame them. But I think they should give time and just a little bit heed, I’ll not say full, they are smart guys. But certain things should be given on experience weightage also. I think that’s the only advice. Otherwise, these are great kids. 

India is at a right cusp. Our economy is doing good, our country is doing well. Infra is up. Infra is up like anything in last 10-11 years the way things are shaping up. And not only here, across — means not metro, you go to other states and I travel a lot. So there’s a very visible change you can feel, and so they are at a right place. We took birth pretty early I think, but I think they should give some little bit weightage to experience also. And I’m sure those who will not take this suggestion in a right stride, once they will reach that age, they will also agree. That’s what is learning of self or my life [ph]. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: True. Thera number ayega experience mein. 

Seemant Shukla: Correct. Woh apne aap ayega. Hum bhi sochthe the shayed. We were also like that only. Yaar, in nahi patha hai, paapa-ko nahi pata hai. But I think experience brings something, that’s advice or piece of advice. I’ll not say they are smart. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Let’s not even call advice. That’s just.

Seemant Shukla: That’s our statement. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Statement. 

Seemant Shukla: Correct.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Wonderful. It’s been an absolute pleasure catching up with you Seemant Shukla, and to get to know more about you and your role at JM Financial Mutual Fund. Here’s wishing you and the team all the very best and looking forward to more catch ups through series. 

Seemant Shukla: Thank you, Radha, for a lovely interaction. I was thinking it would be about market and everything. Trust me, I enjoyed thoroughly. Thanks a lot, and wishing you and as well as all the audience a Happy New Year. A great ‘24 and let’s all do well. Thank you. 

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Thank you.