Expleo Solutions Ltd (EXPLEOSOL) FY22 Earnings Concall Transcript

Expleo Solutions Ltd  (NSE: EXPLEOSOL) FY22 Earnings Concall dated Jul. 20, 2022

Corporate Participants:

Asha Gupta — Investor Relations at Ernst & Young LLP

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

Ralph Gillessen — Chairman & Non-Executive Director

Prashant Bramhankar — Additional Director

Desikan Narayanan — Chief Financial Officer

Analysts:

Arnav Sangvi — Valorem Capital — Analyst

Srishti Jain — Monarch Networth Capital — Analyst

Udit Bokaria — Catamaran Advisors LLP — Analyst

Pritesh Chheda — Lucky Investment Managers — Analyst

Athreya Ramkumar — ithought Financial Consulting LLP — Analyst

Aman Vij — Astute Investment Management — Analyst

Presentation:

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Expleo Solutions Limited Analyst Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Ms. Asha Gupta from E&Y, Investor Relations. Thank you, and over to you, Ms. Gupta.

Asha Gupta — Investor Relations at Ernst & Young LLP

Thanks, Nirav. Good afternoon to everyone, and welcome to the Expleo Solutions Analyst Call. The agenda for today’s call is to discuss the investors’ queries related to the composite Scheme of Amalgamation providing for the merger of Group entities in India under Expleo Solutions Limited.

Request to all participants to avoid asking any questions related to the quarter or business update. Representing management today, we have Mr. Ralph Gillessen, Chairman and Non-Executive Director; Mr. Balaji Viswanathan, Managing Director and CEO; Mr. Prashant Bramhankar, Non-Executive Director and Mr. Desikan Narayanan, Chief Financial Officer.

Balaji will start the call with this update, and then we will open the floor for Q&A session. As usual, safe harbor clause applies.

Having said that, I will now hand over the floor to Mr. Balaji. Over to you, sir.

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, thank you so much, and thanks for all the participants who are joining this call. It’s an opportunity for us to clarify any questions that you may have on the scheme that we published and before the meeting that we are going to have for the shareholders on August 2nd.

In line with what we had presented over the last three-odd quarters, when we first presented the plan for merger, we are in line with what we were expecting at that particular point of time in terms of growth and in terms of what kind of value that this is going to add to the overall Expleo India as one entity.

We are — we had some investments which we had to make in engineering business to propel the growth that we had last year, which was almost 60%-plus growth that we saw in the top line and for that, we had to make some investments. We will answer those questions because that’s the kind of question that we had received so far.

But in line with what we have been mentioning over the last three investor calls, we are in line with what we were projected to achieve in terms of both the head count numbers and in terms of what the budgeted numbers that we were talking about on revenue.

We should be crossing the $100 million mark this year. And we are quite confident that we can cross the $100 million mark this year. And we are in a reasonably good position from a margin perspective, once we have adjusted for all the one-time costs that we had incurred last year to make sure that we are able to scale growth on some of the niche areas where we did not have the skills at that particular point of time.

So having said that, we’ll open up for questions rather than me explaining where we are. I know that you have a few questions on the unlisted entity numbers and also on the expenses and the professional fees and others. So we have both — we have Prashant here who could answer part of the questions, and I will be able to answer any other questions that you may have.

Thanks so much. And Asha, we can open up for questions.

Questions and Answers:

Operator

Thank you very much. We’ll now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Arnav Sangvi [Phonetic] from Valorem Capital. Please go ahead.

Arnav Sangvi — Valorem Capital — Analyst

Hello? Am I audible?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

Yes, sir.

Arnav Sangvi — Valorem Capital — Analyst

Yes. So I had a question on the post-merger scenario. So, after the merger, do you expect any superior margins or any change in our strategy or product mix?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

No. So we had mentioned earlier as well, so our technology business has been running in the range of around 18% to 20% EBITDA level and the engineering business was always running in the 16% to 17% EBITDA levels in the past. And we expect that once the merger happens, we will be in the 17% to 18% once the merger happens in terms of our profitability or EBITDA levels.

We don’t see any long-term impact on those expected margin levels, of course, considering that we may not really have any other macroeconomic situations as such. But at this particular point of time, we don’t see any shrinking of margins significantly from what we had expected, which is the 17% to 18% mark.

And in terms of product mix, we were — the listed entity was focusing on technology service as always and the whole purpose of this merger was to try and make it a replica of what we have at the Group level, which is an engineering plus digital and technology services. And that’s what is going to be our mainstay going forward.

And we’re not really looking at a big change in the product mix, but from a strategy perspective, our objective is that we will start selling the engineering and the digital services or the engineering-enabled digital services for automotive, aerospace, transportation and others in our direct markets as well, because in our direct markets which is Middle East, India, APAC and also in the U.S., we have only been selling the quality assurance and the software development services.

But now, this will actually enable us to sell the other engineering services into this market as well. So that’s what we are trying to keep it as simple as possible. Our objective is to try and drive profitable growth.

Arnav Sangvi — Valorem Capital — Analyst

Understood. And also I wanted to ask for any change in the India specific strategy given the problems that we’re facing in Europe today?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

Can you be a little more specific on what problems that we are referring to?

Arnav Sangvi — Valorem Capital — Analyst

Like with the Russia-Ukraine war that was earlier and now post interest rate hikes and the inflationary environment are sounding. So do you have any change in strategy or maybe outsourcing business to India or anything like that?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

So we have maintained this earlier as well. So the objective is that the group will continue to move more business to the best shore centers, and India is one of the important best shore centers for the group, and they’ll continue to move work whatever has been signed in Europe or in any other Western market to India as well.

And that would continue to be the case. So they had mentioned when — even during the amalgamation and when we were presenting the merger at that particular point of time that the current group business composition is around — after the merger would probably be around 30%, and that’s something which we are expecting will go to around 40% to 45% over the next three years.

And the direct business will continue to grow and that will continue to be at around 55% or 60% of the total business. So we don’t see any let down or slowing down on the best shoring efforts from the western market into India.

Operator

Thank You. The next question is from the line of Srishti from Monarch Networth Capital. Please go ahead

Srishti Jain — Monarch Networth Capital — Analyst

Thank you for the opportunity sir. Sir, I had one question on the fact that our technologies sister concern grew — did a revenue of INR190-odd million or INR190 crores and our Infosystem is about INR150 crores. However, the consolidated incoming entity has done about INR300 crores. So there’s a difference of INR45-odd crores. Can you help me understand the whole financial aspect of this?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

Sorry. Srishti, hi, first. Thanks for the question. But I’m not able to understand why you’re saying that — so the numbers — as far as the Expleo Technology’s numbers is around INR194 crores is what the revenue was for last year. And the Expleo Infosystem, which is the Pune number, is around INR151 crores.

And the combination of these two, which is approximately INR345 crores or INR346 crores is what the total is. All of that will actually move into the listed entity when the merger happens. But of course, the effective date of the merger is from April. So obviously, it will be for the 2022-’23 number rather than the ’21-’22 numbers, but the entire business is moving. So there is no really anything which is not moving as part of the merger. So there is no gap in the numbers.

Srishti Jain — Monarch Networth Capital — Analyst

Okay. So effectively, we’ve gone from INR560 crores in FY21 to INR750 crores merge-to-merge in FY22?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

That’s right. INR750 crores is what the combined entity numbers were as of March 31, 2022. And the entire INR750 crores will move into the listed entity. So you need to look at what the revised number would be for ’22-’23. INR750 crores is all the three entities put together.

Srishti Jain — Monarch Networth Capital — Analyst

Yes, yes. Okay, so actually, where I was coming from in the merger perspective, there’s this Expleo Infosystems consolidated revenue.

Ralph Gillessen — Chairman & Non-Executive Director

That is — because you see that Expleo Infosystems took over Technology in June — July beginning or June end. So you see only the nine months number, which gets consolidated to the Pune entity. So that’s the reason we don’t go with that. Because more you need to see stand-alone all three put together, you will get that INR750 crores.

Srishti Jain — Monarch Networth Capital — Analyst

Understood. Okay. So that’s pro rata. Sir, the company like to follow up on that our profit if it come down at a PAT level, the difference is minimum. So the consultancy fee that the technology company actually has an expense. So is that also what we incurred in the three-month period for that merger to happen?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

No. The consultancy fee is actually knowledge transfer, which we had to do for a specific project I will Prashant, to answer that in detail.

Prashant Bramhankar — Additional Director

Yes. So this is — whenever we start a new capability, we have to invest to make sure that we develop that capability. Certain capabilities exist as part of our group in the Western world. So when we start a new capability, initially, we utilize the resources and the knowledge transfer, training aspect, from our Group.

This is a one-time expense. So when we grab the projects in this particular skill set in future, this cost will not be there, because the local capability is already developed. Of course, when we start handling a newer area, this might be seen again. But for this particular capability, this was a one-time thing.

Srishti Jain — Monarch Networth Capital — Analyst

Okay, sure sir. And sir, the other question was that we actually — the Pune entity took over the Bangalore entity that led to a cash outgo. Did we always envisage that?

Desikan Narayanan — Chief Financial Officer

Yes. Because the whole purpose of this exercise is to make sure that we are one India. So that’s the reason we went through that like the engineering business, Bangalore business taken over by Pune and both together gets merged into the listed entity, that was the plan we had.

Srishti Jain — Monarch Networth Capital — Analyst

Understood, sir. Sir, can you just tell that incoming cash that we’ll have on our books as a merged entity?

Desikan Narayanan — Chief Financial Officer

As a merged entity, I cannot tell it now because, of course, it will be on the 1st of April. As of 31st March, if you look at it, the financials, we had INR155 crores in U.S. that is the listed entity and INR12 crores in the Pune entity and INR9 crores in the Bangalore entity.

Srishti Jain — Monarch Networth Capital — Analyst

Sure, sir. That was really helpful. I’ll get back in the queue.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Udit from Catamaran. Please go ahead.

Udit Bokaria — Catamaran Advisors LLP — Analyst

Yeah. Thank you sir, for giving me the opportunity. Sir, if you can help me understand, which geographies are we doing direct business and what is the thought process going forward? Like who — in which geographies will we have our direct salespeople and where will we be sourcing from the parent? And second is, if you can tell, what is the current employee strength as of March 31, 2022?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

Okay. So any other market outside of U.K. and Europe are considered as direct markets. In U.K. and Europe, we have the group sales teams different, and they do the selling and where we do — where we actually do the delivery part.

So all the others are direct markets except for U.K. and Europe at this particular point of time. But some pockets of Europe which we still do directly, but it’s a very small component, it’s not a significant large component. So basically, Asia, the entire Asia, Africa and U.S. and Southeast Asia, the APAC region, all of them are actually are direct region.

We are not present in Africa in a big size [Phonetic] right now, except for some — except for Egypt to some extent. But in all the other markets, we are not present in Africa per se. And on the employee count, we closed 31st March with — around 4,000 — a little over 4,300 employees.

Udit Bokaria — Catamaran Advisors LLP — Analyst

Okay. And sir, in North America region, is the thought process that all the sales will be done by the Indian entity. Sorry for my voice. Is there a thought process that like going forward as well, Expleo India will be investing in the sales there and doing direct business or the Group will also start employing salespeople there to grow their business?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

So we will continue to invest to grow the technology business in the U.S. If you recollect last time also, we talked about when the group will actually likely to invest in the U.S. through an acquisition, which may happen in ’23 or ’24. But at that particular point of time, there might be a different strategy. But at this particular point of time, at least for the next 18 to 24 months, we will continue to invest in the U.S. to grow the technology business.

Udit Bokaria — Catamaran Advisors LLP — Analyst

Understood. And [Indecipherable], as the group has also expanded its vertical, right, they have expanded into health care business. So what is the thought purpose of growing that division in India?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

Sure. I’ll actually request Ralph to answer because he was part of that acquisition of the health care business in Europe and working on trying and building that capability in other markets as well. Ralph, would you like to add?

Ralph Gillessen — Chairman & Non-Executive Director

Yes, thank you. Thank you, Balaji. Probably one additional information in the U.S. You probably know we have even in the engineering and consulting side, go-to-market and salespeople and capacity on the ground in North America. But as Balaji said, we will even continue to invest in the go-to-market from India for the Technology business.

And, in addition to this regional expansion, we are even — focusing even on the diversification of our industry portfolio and this is even where we are making at the beginning of the year, this investment in life sciences and chemicals. As we even see there on the one-hand side the relevance and the importance of our engineering portfolio and the digital portfolio and the technology portfolio. And this is why we made the acquisition with a strong focus at the engineering side.

And as we have even done it with aero and with the automotive business, we are now using the digital and technology capabilities. We need to stitch together even their new solutions and offerings for this industry. So even this was an acquisition focusing more on the engineering side of our capabilities and the portfolio. And we see now that we will continue to grow this as we are even doing it with the aero and automotive part, but even bringing the technology and digital capabilities to these customers.

Udit Bokaria — Catamaran Advisors LLP — Analyst

Okay. Sir, one last question from my side. So when we do business with group versus a direct business, what is the revenue per employee that we bill and what is the margin in our direct business versus the group business?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

So, revenue per employee — actually, more than revenue per employee, we basically look at what our realization rates are effectively per hour in dollar terms and we are in the range of around $23 to $24 per hour is what our realization rates are right now.

It’s a blended rate, but across multiple geographies, but that’s what the current rates are. And in terms of what the group business versus direct business, I would say it’s almost the same. Group is slightly lesser than the direct market, primarily because there is no SG&A there. And the margins are lower in the direct business than the group business, but the realization rates are almost the same.

Operator

Thank you. Udit, I’ll request you to come back in the question queue for a follow-up question.

Udit Bokaria — Catamaran Advisors LLP — Analyst

Sure.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pritesh Chheda from Lucky Investment Managers. Please go ahead.

Pritesh Chheda — Lucky Investment Managers — Analyst

Sir, past calls, you’ve commented about a fairly high growth rate. I think in quarter four also, we talked about a fairly high growth rate for a combined business. Is there any change there? And — so the reference point was plus 20% type growth is what we’ve been doing. So is there any reference change there?

And second, net of adjustment, it would be very helpful if you could give us the FY22 PAT number for the merged entity? If you’ve given the revenue number as INR750 crores, ex of that one-off, what would be the PAT number? And this extra expense that you have taken in FY22 from your commentary, is it fair to assume that it will not resurface in ’23?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

Yes. So, on your first question on growth rate, we continue to expect that we will be around the 20% mark, for sure. And we hope to continue that at least in the next 12 to 24 months, for sure, unless otherwise there are some major macroeconomic changes, which will impact the month, which we don’t foresee at this particular point of time, but if that’s were to happen.

And in terms of what our PAT numbers were…

Desikan Narayanan — Chief Financial Officer

So combined PAT for all the entities together is around INR82 crores.

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

That’s INR82 crores around — it’s around INR82.5 crores is what the combined — all the three entities PAT for INR750 crore revenue. And some of these one-time expenses that we talked about, which is a consultant fee or one-time investments that we had to do in ’21-’22 for getting those new business, if you were to do that, it may probably go up by another INR15 crores to INR20 crores.

Pritesh Chheda — Lucky Investment Managers — Analyst

Okay. So adjusted for onetime, it is another INR15 crores?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

Yes, it will be in the range of around INR95 crores.

Pritesh Chheda — Lucky Investment Managers — Analyst

INR95 crores? And is it fair to assume that this onetime was a feature of ’22 and is not a feature of ’23? Or…

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

No, that will depend on what the strategy is and what the new opportunities are. In ’21-’22, we had to invest for a specific client opportunity, which was one of our global clients and for them, there was a capability that we had to build, and we had to transfer. Right now we don’t see a similar ask in ’22-’23. But if there is a similar ask for building a new capability which we don’t have in India, we may have to do that investment, which will also again be one-time task.

Pritesh Chheda — Lucky Investment Managers — Analyst

Okay. And the EBITDA that we would have seen in ’22 would be shared lower than the 18% number, right, when you have these one-offs?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

So we have around at 16.3%, but we still expect, like what I mentioned even in the last three quarters as well, we should be in the range of 17% to 18% going forward.

Pritesh Chheda — Lucky Investment Managers — Analyst

Okay. And sir, just last one clarification. The merged entity, what will be the capital base or the number of shares, whatever? And your holding would be 75%, right?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

71%.

Prashant Bramhankar — Additional Director

It will be exactly 70.01% — 70.01%.

Pritesh Chheda — Lucky Investment Managers — Analyst

And the capital base?

Desikan Narayanan — Chief Financial Officer

Capital base, will be currently, I think we are around 10 lakh shares, it will increase another 5 lakh shares.

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

Yes. It will be around — it will be in the range of [Speech overlap] it is around 10 million shares right now. We should be in the range of around 13.8 million to 14 million shares going forward. We’ll probably get back — yes, we’ll come back to you in terms of what the — because that was there in the first initial amalgamation document. I don’t have it handy right now, but we’ll share it with you.

Operator

Thank you. Pritesh, may I request you to come back in the question queue for a follow-up question. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Athreya from ithought Financial. Please go ahead.

Athreya Ramkumar — ithought Financial Consulting LLP — Analyst

Hi, sir. Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I just had some queries regarding the Expleo Technologies business. So, can you just explain what kind of work we do here? Because recently I read that as parent was working with an auto major and which put up the battery management system in record time. So does the Indian entity get to work on such projects?

Prashant Bramhankar — Additional Director

Okay. Prashant here, let me take this question. Of course, see, the area of business what we do is primarily called as engineering services for many sectors, whether it’s automotive, aerospace, railway transportation and few other areas, defense. So this particular project is like what is getting discussed in earlier couple of sessions.

In Engineering Services, it’s mostly a product development kind of work. It’s a highly technical work and it’s not that we have all the capabilities available in India. But as most of the companies are moving their product development work in India, we need to develop that to further secure our business and even secure our global position with these strong OEMs globally, right?

So this was one area where we wanted to develop the capability because it was a significant contract. We invested it one time. And after that, we acquired two additional customers in India for the same capability where we didn’t have to make that investment. So those projects are comparatively bit smaller right now, but that’s where it started to develop business on the new capability, which we developed by making an investment last year.

Athreya Ramkumar — ithought Financial Consulting LLP — Analyst

Sure, sir. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. So I just have a few more questions. So I mean, even in the other subsidiary, which is the Expleo India Infosystems — so — and even the technologies business, you had said that the margins reduced because of these one-off costs and then it will — going forward, it will be at 17% to 18%. So — but even in the Pune entity, historically, it had very high margins, but why has that seen a decline in the last year?

Prashant Bramhankar — Additional Director

So see, there are three main reasons. One is that we had to make a forward investment in terms of capability and in terms of resources because we — I had mentioned earlier as well, so we went ahead and hired quite a few trainees to tide over what we foresaw as the demand supply mismatch in the latter half of ’22 and — in the latter half of ’21, rather. And that’s when we actually had to hire almost 400 to 500 people that was spread across multiple entities.

While the listed entity hired around 350-odd people, the Pune entity also hired close to around 100-plus people at that particular point of time. And there were also some one-time expenses which we had to incur for the SEZ — we had to comply with certain SEZ rules, which we missed in the past, which we had to make sure that we do all of those before the actual merger. So there were some one-time expenses which were incurred in the last year.

So both these put together was in the region — in the range of around INR2 crores to INR3 crores, and that probably was the reason why the margin went down a little. But there was another question sometime back in from another investor as well. I just wanted to pre-empt the next question, Pune entity actually has a significant amount of group business.

So anywhere around 80% to 85% of the business actually comes from the group. And that’s defined based on the transfer pricing rules that we have. We follow whatever the taxation rules are, and we have reputed consultants who have actually given us the opinion. And as of now, it’s based on that particular number is how the current margins are, and it will continue to be the same.

Athreya Ramkumar — ithought Financial Consulting LLP — Analyst

Sure, sir. And can you just — I mean even in EI — Expleo India Infosystems, it looks like the top client contributes 26% and the second and third contribute 15% and 10%. Is it top client or group or could you just name these clients?

Prashant Bramhankar — Additional Director

This is all from the group.

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

These are all from the room. So all these businesses are actually primarily from the group. So like what I mentioned, almost 85% of the business is coming from the group.

Athreya Ramkumar — ithought Financial Consulting LLP — Analyst

Sure, sir. And just one last question on — you had spoken about our technologies business and how we are — could you just name some clients which — who we have in the auto and aerospace industry?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

We prefer not to name them, but we have actually most of the French and German auto manufacturers are our largest clients.

Prashant Bramhankar — Additional Director

Yes, I mean you can just Google, but all the French and German auto OEMs, large carmakers, they are our clients. And there are only two large commercial aeroplane companies in the world, one comes from France, like you can guess the name, so they are one of the — some of the top customers for us.

Aman Vij — Astute Investment Management — Analyst

Sure sir. Thank you so much. That’s it from my end.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll take the last two questions from the line of Mr. Aman Vij from Astute Investment Management. Please go ahead.

Aman Vij — Astute Investment Management — Analyst

Yeah, good afternoon sir. My first set of questions is on the ER&D business. If you can talk about for FY22, what was the mix between mechanical and digital portion? And we had grown like 60%. So how was the growth in these two business sub-segments?

As well as if you can talk about little bit on the — what is the typical margin difference? And at what scale can our ER&D margin business be better than the company margin? Because globally, ER&D margins are much, much higher. So if you can talk about this. This is the first set of questions.

Prashant Bramhankar — Additional Director

Okay. So if I look at this ER&D business for Expleo Technologies; in 2021, the split between mechanical and embedded systems or digital, it was 50-50. Because of that large contract we spoke in a few minutes back. But going forward, or if I look at even ’22 and ’23 kind of like visibility we have, the mechanical engineering will be around 40%, 45% and 60% will come from embedded as well as digital systems, whether they are kind of avionics for aerospace or the defense systems or autonomous around those kind of automotive systems. So that would be the split.

Second thing, whether the margins are higher on ER&D, it’s a different perspective. The margins, as Balaji explained even earlier, so for engineering, R&D systems, you know like, they’re like in the 15%, 16% range and digital is where — digital business was a bit higher, 1% or 2%. So when we combine the whole entity, I think will still be at the 16%, 17% range.

So we are — we see to that. Engineering R&D business has very high profit. I don’t think like that’s a true thing. It’s more or less like you know like a percent like here and there from the digital business.

Aman Vij — Astute Investment Management — Analyst

Even going forward, three years hence, you think the margin will remain in this range of 17%, 18% in this division?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

So, see when you are actually investing in a new business, we expect that we need to do some amount of forward investing. Maybe we expect that the margin profile for many of these businesses will change. But it also — will also depend on how much of these businesses are acquired directly and how much of it is coming through the group.

When it is coming through the group, it will be defined by some part of the transfer pricing mechanism. So obviously, there is an extent to which this particular margin can go. But as we start acquiring more direct customers in the engineering business, this margin profile could change.

Aman Vij — Astute Investment Management — Analyst

Sure, sir. Second set of questions is on the employee count addition, which we are currently doing per month? And what is the target for FY23 and ’24?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

Yes. So like what I mentioned, we were a shade above 4,300 employees as of March 31, 2022. We expect that we should be in the range of around slightly less than 5,000 when we close March 2023. And between March ’23 to ’24, we expect that we’ll probably be able to add anywhere between 1,000 to 1,500 employees. Our target, I had mentioned earlier as well, our stated objective is that both organic and inorganic, we should be — we are targeting that we will be a 10,000-people company by 2025.

Aman Vij — Astute Investment Management — Analyst

Sure, sir. Final question. So Rajesh, sir has given an interview in the French magazine about very ambitious targets for the group as well as the India part. So if you can — you and maybe, sir, can talk about a little bit on what are these ambitious targets which the company has set for itself?

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

Ralph, do you want to…

Ralph Gillessen — Chairman & Non-Executive Director

Yes, I can probably answer you and even together with Rajesh the management team has worked even on an Ambition 2025 plan. And, I think, it was even — I think already mentioned by Rajesh and by even — and by Balaji that we see this growth above the 20% mark in 2022, and we are even expecting to continue with a similar growth rate over the next couple of years.

This is even — and that is even within the strategic plan that will include organic and nonorganic growths, but we are even expecting to continue with growth rate above the 20% through 2025, and I think we will even look we had roughly a billion in revenues last year, and you would project this even out over the next four to five years, I think you even see that the magnitude of business that we would like to generate.

And as I mentioned earlier on the continued expansion in the U.S. and even the diversification in terms of the industry segments we are in, it will help us to achieve the significant growth rates, where we are definitely expecting to outperform even the benchmark or the peer groups.

Aman Vij — Astute Investment Management — Analyst

Ralph, if you can clarify on the global level, are we targeting like we had grown quite well last year. So are we targeting similar 15%, 20% growth at the global level as well?

Ralph Gillessen — Chairman & Non-Executive Director

Yes. We are targeting even 20% at a group level or at a global level. And this will even then — translate even into the growth that we would even then see in India. As from a group perspective, we still see this as a larger than even most important location and place where we even then work together with the European markets on the project on engagement, especially for European customers. But we even see that we are achieving the growth rates even in the U.K. and Europe, as it was even mentioned in figures by Balaji.

Aman Vij — Astute Investment Management — Analyst

Sure. That is it from me. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you very much. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Balaji Vishwanath — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

Yes, thanks, Nirav. Thank you so much for your interest. Quite impressed with the number of people who were actually there on the call and the kind of interesting questions that you all had. This is actually an important fit for us as we go through this merger and as we go into the next steps of trying and growing the business into the next level. So we’ll be a $100 million-plus company by end of the year, which is also another big milestone for us.

So, thanks for your continued support and looking forward to the same going forward as well. Appreciate your time.

Operator

[Operator Closing Remarks]

Duration: ?? minutes