Century Textiles & Industries Limited (CENTURYTEX) Q4 FY23 Earnings Concall Transcript

Century Textiles & Industries Limited (NSE:CENTURYTEX) Q4 FY23 Earnings Concall dated Apr. 25, 2023.

Corporate Participants:

Parvez Qazi — Director – Research

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Vijay Kaul — Chief Executive Officer – Century Pulp and Paper

Snehal Shah — Chief Financial Officer

Analysts:

Sourav Dutta — Minerva Asset Advisors — Analyst

Vivek Ramakrishnan — DSP Mutual Fund — Analyst

Karan Mehta — Mehta Securities — Analyst

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Sourabh Gilda — Motilal Oswal Financial Services — Analyst

Amit Sanghvi — Individual Investor — Analyst

Dhwanil Shah — iWealth Management — Analyst

Nirav Savai — Abakkus Asset Manager — Analyst

Kashyap Sriram — Value Research — Analyst

Parin Gala — SageOne — Analyst

Biplab Debbarma — Antique Stock Broking — Analyst

Jiten Parmar — Aurum Capital — Analyst

Rahil Shah — Individual Investor — Analyst

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

Nishith Shah — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Presentation:

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Century Textiles and Industries Limited Q4, FY23 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Nuvama Wealth Management. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Parvez Qazi from Nuvama Wealth Management. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Parvez Qazi — Director – Research

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Q4, FY23 results conference call of Century Textiles and Industries. Today, we have with us from the management side, Mr R.K. Dalmia, Managing Director of the Company; Mr K. T. Jithendran, the CEO of the Real Estate division; Mr. Vijay Kaul, the CEO of the Paper — Pulp and Paper division; and Mr. Snehal Shah, the Chief Financial Officer of the Company.

Without much ado, I will hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks. Over to you, sir.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Thank you. A very good evening to everyone joining us today. It is my pleasure to welcome you all to the earnings conference call for the fourth quarter and financial year ended 2023. Let me first take you all through the quarterly industry and financial highlights. [Indecipherable] challenges, geopolitical tension with the onset of Russia-Ukraine conflict, weak global macros and higher inflation impacted financial year ’23. This fiscal year turned out to be highly volatile and ended with higher interest rates, reallocate enough FII flows from India to other emerging markets. Domestic consumption slowed down, as well as the U.S. and European banking crisis, while the macroeconomics headwinds, we have delivered excellent overall performance.

Coming to the financial performance of the — for the fourth quarter of financial year ’23, the consolidated turnover is stood INR1,187 crores. The EBITDA increased by 99% year-on year to INR265 crores with consolidated EBITDA margin of 22.3%. And the net profit after tax grew by 69% year-on year to INR142 crores, which was due to one-time exceptional item of INR134 crores profit made on lease [Phonetic] reassignment of land at GIDC Dahej, Gujarat belonging to our Pulp and Paper division.

For the financial year ended ’23, the consolidated turnover grew by 16% year-on year to INR4,719 crores, mainly due to significant revival in paper business. The EBITDA for ’23 grew by 38% year-on-year to INR687 crores, with consolidated EBITDA margin of 14.6% and the net profit after tax grew by 64% year-on year to INR265 crores.

Now, let me take you through some of the key highlights across our three business verticals. Starting from real estate business, the residential sale across all key markets in the country were at all-time high in the past quarter resulted in doubling of the residential real estate industry in the size of last three years. The sector [Indecipherable] robust demand during Q4 financial year ’23, driven by strong [Indecipherable] across all categories including high value units. Commercial real estate sector is [Indecipherable] stable and healthy demand across the cities.

Birla Estates achieved higher sales of INR806 crores in Q4 financial year ’23, which was the highest quarterly sales ever for the Company with strong collection of INR215 crores. And the entire financial year of 2023, we achieved sales of approximately 1.2 trillion square feet worth INR2,183 crores, registering a growth of 14% year-on year and collection were INR861 crores with collection efficiencies of 98.9%.

Project front, Birla Niyaara, Gurugram, continues to sell at an exceptional pace with the third phase achieving a booking value of more than INR200 crores in just two weeks of launch. As our already launched projects, projection execution is in full swing across all projects, Birla Alokya, Birla Vanya, Birla Navya Phase 1 are due for delivery in coming year. Furthermore, the two new projects announced in Bengaluru are progressing well, and we expect to launch both of these projects in the financial year ’24.

As announced in April 23, the company extended its footprint in Pune by acquiring 5.76 acres plot, which has the revenue potential of more than INR2,400 crores. Growing its spread in Bengaluru, the Company acquired another 10.35 acres plot with a revenue potential of more than INR850 crores. Our two commercial assets, Birla Aurora and Birla Centurion continue to generate stable rental as well. The demand fundamentals remain robust and are expected to continue in the next financial year.

The global economic slowdown and its impact on the Indian macroeconomic situation is yet to be ascertained, though the domestic consumption is strong remains — consumption story remains strong. The mortgage rates are expected to remain stable at current level, hence the industry outlook remains positive.

Moving on to our Pulp and Paper segment, the quarterly [Indecipherable] we improve sales from that — from that of last quarter. Board market is improving due to a pickup in pharma, F&B mainly coffee shop [Phonetic] and FMCG rural segment. Export demand has also slightly improved from Europe post-Christmas holiday opening. Copier demand increased due to exams in Q4, whereas writing and printing demand was supported by government tender order.

For the fourth quarter, the overall utilization 93% [Phonetic]. Sales volume witnessing a decline of 12% on year at 1,06,668 metric ton. In Q4 ’23, the net sales grew by 10% year-on year to INR910 crores, primarily driven by better realization. While EBITDA stood at INR298 crores with margin up 32.7%. It is important to note that the EBITDA includes a one-time exceptional item of INR134 crores profit made on sale of land at GIDC Dahej, Gujarat.

During Q4, there was a increase in NSR by 8.4% in tissue, a significant reduction in board NSR by 14.8%. However, there are — there was no major change in paper NSR. So average realization price, as compared to Q3 reduced by [Technical Issues]. For financial year ’23, our net sales grew by 27% year-on year to INR3,572 crores, while EBITDA grew by 71% year-on year to INR725 crores and EBITDA margins were 20.3%.

Writing and printing paper demand is expected to remain low in coming quarter due to seasonal impact of closure of educational hubs for summer holidays, while tissue and board segment is expected to have a stable demand.

Cost pressure are expected to persist in domestic market due to low-priced import and excess supply from domestic mills. Export demand from Europe, USA are expected to remain low due to recessionary impact.

Lastly talking about textile division for the fourth quarter under review, net sales declined by 28% year-on year to INR222 crores, with an EBITDA loss of INR25 crores. While financial year ’23, sales is stood at INR951 crores with EBITDA loss of INR38 crores.

Q4 financial year ’23, demand in the domestic market continued to be under pressure with low-to medium footfall across our segments in the retail sector. Exports inquiries order have not shown [Phonetic] and order from U.S. and Europe were considerably down. In addition to the above, falling raw cotton prices resulted in a sharp decrease in the quarter and yarn realizations too.

[Indecipherable] fabric sales were stood in H1 of the year. However, pressure increased in H2 because of low demand and sudden drop in cotton prices. Production capacity was utilized almost fully throughout the year, but margins were under pressure in H2 due to heavy competition in the market.

For Bed Linen, the importer in USA were reluctant to issue new order, and while liquidity [Indecipherable] inventory at throwaway prices.

Cotton mill factories [Phonetic] have to complete the product made of man made fibers, which are — were substantially cheaper. Until the markets see stable raw material prices scenario and the stabilization in yarn and fabric demand, it seems that demand will continue to be under pressure.

With that, we can now open the floor for question-and-answer session. Thank you very much.

Questions and Answers:

Operator

Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Sourav Dutta from Minerva Asset Advisors. Please go ahead.

Sourav Dutta — Minerva Asset Advisors — Analyst

Hello. Thank you for the opportunity. I just had three questions on the Board side. So you saw mid teens price decline sequentially, just wanted to know is this a national trend or was it more pronounced in certain industries? Secondly, was this trend…

Operator

Excuse me Mr. Dutta, the audio is unclear from your line. Please use the handset mode, sir.

Sourav Dutta — Minerva Asset Advisors — Analyst

I am on the handset mode. Is this better now.

Operator

Yes, sir. Thank you.

Sourav Dutta — Minerva Asset Advisors — Analyst

Yeah. So I have three questions on the board side. You saw mid teens price decline sequentially, so would you characterize this, as a trend nationally or was it more of a regional trend?

Secondly, was it more pronounced in certain industries versus others?

And finally, you mentioned about imports impacting pricing negatively. So just curious, as to what kind of board buyers are moving into imported boards because usually the pharma, the CPG guys prefer domestic boards because their requirements are met fortnightly. So these are three questions on the board side?

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Yeah. Thank you. Now the questions on the board, number one, well, the prices were low, in fact. I would say in all these sections, whether it was pharma, FMCG or any other — and on the food segment also for that [Phonetic] an extent. And it was throughout the country, it was not only limited to a particular region because the — our factories, which are making board are distributed throughout the country and all were facing the same kind of issues and problems.

And as regards, the imports of the board because the board prices were quite high because of the raw material prices being very high. But as — when the demand has got a — and the demand was in trouble, so the high prices didn’t mind. So there were — so the imports came at a lower price. So that’s while for some time — that’s why the prices were low and decline of the prices started. So it is a worldwide phenomena. It is not a phenomena only in India also. That’s what it is. So If you’ve got any further thing on that, I can answer.

Sourav Dutta — Minerva Asset Advisors — Analyst

Right. So just wanted to understand, was there any specific subset industry that was buying imported board or it was across the board, CPG, pharma…

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Not really. It was probably [Phonetic] because particular type of board, the board, which we are making is an original board and a hard board. So that Whatever people are importing that goes to the same industry. So it is not — It’s not for — in a particular industry. It can go to different industries.

Sourav Dutta — Minerva Asset Advisors — Analyst

Understood. Secondly. I had a question on the caustic soda prices. Caustic soda prices were down 20%, 25% sequentially. So did the benefit flow into this quarter, I mean, the past quarter or would we see this in the June quarter? And could you quantify the gross margin impact in the fourth quarter of March-April, we saw some impact over there?

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

You see, let me, you know because there is a dichotomy in this whole thing, you know, the caustic soda we are using mostly in making the pulp and not in making the paper. So when we made the pulp production, the caustic soda prices will come into the picture and the cost of the pulp is accordingly, you know, denoted and all that.

But if you see the pulp prices, the imported pulp prices and our internal pulp prices has gone up considerably because the wood process — prices had gone up. So the difference in the caustic price was not bad deal [Phonetic] that it would make a difference in the costing to that an extent. Yeah, definitely, the drop in the caustic prices reduced the prices to some extent, but overall the pulp prices are so high that it did not make any difference to that an extent.

Sourav Dutta — Minerva Asset Advisors — Analyst

Understood, sir. Thanks a lot and that’s it from my side.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Yeah.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shalini Vasanta from DSP Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.

Vivek Ramakrishnan — DSP Mutual Fund — Analyst

Hi, this is Vivek Ramakrishnan. Given the volatility in your various businesses, would you be looking at any major capex apart from the construction and your real estate business is question number one?

And question number two is, you’ve also been very prudent about debt levels and the outstanding loans have come down from INR1,300 crores last year to about INr1,000 crores this year. So I just wanted to know, how it is going to track going forward? Thank you.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

So Vivek, good question. Thank you. Thank you very much for the appreciation on the debt management. Yes, most of our free cash flows from — particularly our pulp and paper business will go into supporting the real estate business growth. The free cash flow, which come from the real estate business are after providing for whatever capex that is required for [Phonetic] them. So we always, again, some number over a three year period, say about INR500 crores for the capex plans of the paper business.

Most of the capex is directed towards marginally improving the efficiency, the productivity of the business, as well as some cost saving measures, so that would probably going forward, help us in increasing the capacity, reducing cost, etc. But no major — at the moment plans for the pulp and paper business in terms of huge capex expenditure, where we might require forex.

So most of it is through the cash flows of the business itself. And whatever excess comes up, we actually use it for the purpose of our real estate business. So the real estate business is now going-forward, as we say is the real estate arm of the Aditya Birla Group and the growth engine of Century Textiles and Industries Limited. I hope that answers your question.

Vivek Ramakrishnan — DSP Mutual Fund — Analyst

Yes, sir, very much — thank you very much and wish you good luck.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Karan Mehta from Mehta Securities. Please go ahead.

Karan Mehta — Mehta Securities — Analyst

Hello.

Operator

Mr. Mehta, please go ahead.

Karan Mehta — Mehta Securities — Analyst

Hello.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Yeah. Karan, go ahead. We can hear you.

Karan Mehta — Mehta Securities — Analyst

Hello.

Operator

Mr. Mehta, you’re audible. Please go ahead with your question.

Karan Mehta — Mehta Securities — Analyst

Thank you, sir for the opportunity. So I just have a couple of questions. Firstly, if you can please provide the volume for paper business for this quarter and the previous quarter.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Sorry.

Karan Mehta — Mehta Securities — Analyst

If you can please provide the volume for the paper business for this and the previous quarter?

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

This quarter, it was 111,000 tons in the quarter and the last quarter was about 100,000 tons.

Karan Mehta — Mehta Securities — Analyst

Okay. Fine. And secondly, we have incurred a loss in the textile business in this quarter. So is this an inventory loss? And or what is the nature of the loss? And is it of recurring nature or — and if it is not, then, will it reverse in the future?

Vijay Kaul — Chief Executive Officer – Century Pulp and Paper

So yes, I think some of the losses are business losses, almost like 50% is business losses and 50% is one-time losses provisions for inventory or some doubtful debt. It will be — I think doubtful debts may be recoverable, as per audited standards we have provided, but it is recoverable in future. And inventory at the pulp price or whatever [Indecipherable] we have done. So on those 50% losses are there and that is a one-time expenditure.

Karan Mehta — Mehta Securities — Analyst

Okay. And sir, if I can squeeze in one more question. So we have recently acquired land at South Bombay and Pune and so how do we intend to develop these land? And when do — when can we expect revenue from these projects?

Vijay Kaul — Chief Executive Officer – Century Pulp and Paper

Yeah. So Karan, the Walkeshwar land in South Bombay, we expect since it’s a smaller size, we expect that to launch in this financial itself. While the Pune one, which is a larger thing, it has got, I mean, the plot size is larger, so it has a more gestation period for launch. So we expect that to launch in the next financial year.

Karan Mehta — Mehta Securities — Analyst

Okay. And what about the Bengaluru land?

Vijay Kaul — Chief Executive Officer – Century Pulp and Paper

Bangalore land, we will be launching in this financial year. We are planning to launch this financial year.

Karan Mehta — Mehta Securities — Analyst

Okay. Thanks a lot sir for the clarification. That is very helpful. Thank you.

Vijay Kaul — Chief Executive Officer – Century Pulp and Paper

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Srivastava from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, congratulation on Birla Niyaara successful 80% sales last one year.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Thank you.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

So just wanted to understand that the remaining 20%, how is the inventory, is it going to be higher ticket size and it will take some time to get monetized?

And second, given the 80% is already sold, can we prepone the second phase launch. How is the planning for the second phase? And if you can give the roadmap for the FY24, which are the projects are coming for the FY24 launch? Yeah.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah. Thank you, Amit, for the question. So yeah, as you know about Birla Niyaara, Tower A is 80% sold [Indecipherable] about 16%. So definitely, this calls for a price increase, which we have done it. Currently sellers price protected [Phonetic] average of INR75,000 per square foot. So we expect this — we expect balance inventory to be sold at a easier pace than what has happened till now. Also, we are in the process of launching Tower B, hopefully by December of this financial year. We should be ready with all approvals and RERA clearance for launching that. So it would be [Phonetic] late Q3 or early Q4.

The other launches are the Bangalore projects, which we have planned, one is — the two projects that we acquired, one on the Greens [Phonetic] near Devanahalli and the other one in R R Nagar, both we are expecting to launch this financial year. Also the — in Q4, we are hoping that we’ll be able to launch the [Indecipherable] project also. And the last phase of Birla Navya in NCR. All these projects are slated for launch in this financial year.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Okay. And second sir, in terms of the Birla Vanya, Kalyan, our first phase we have sold in a very remarkable time, however, the sales momentum in next phase is very slow, and going on a quarter-on-quarter on a slow pace. if you can give on a broader light, what is happening over there?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah. So the sales is at a slower pace than expected. We have sold about 832 of the 1,200 apartments. So the balance, we are hoping that we’ll be able to cover up the rest of this year. The prices are now quite high because initially we sold at very attractive prices, but now the prices, we are really playing for margins. So we expect this to go on a slower trend. And we’re also approaching the finishing line this year, we expect to give possession of the property also. So I think with that completion, I think the pace should pickup. So we are quite confident that we want to [Phonetic] sell the balance at very premium prices.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Okay.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

And sir, in terms of the project like South Mumbai, we have already the large land parcel, and then, we have taken a one more project. So if you can tell us that what is the strategy over the South Mumbai, that we will take more projects in that area or we’ll try to diversify towards Western Mumbai and Thane side area [Indecipherable].

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

It was a very attractive deal also. So all that culminated into us getting into this deal. So that is very well within our strategy of getting into very premium high end projects. So there is nothing like how many projects, wherever we get a good opportunity, good — at a good price, attractive valuations are always gain for that.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Okay. Yeah. Thank you sir. Sir, last one clarification from Snehal, sir. Sir in our cash flow, we have given a project development cost, which is around INR900 crore in FY23, so if you can give this breakup what are the things it includes…

Snehal Shah — Chief Financial Officer

So this project development cost of INR900 crores sublease include the various cost [Technical Issues] construction development and then purchase for the — all the current projects, which are currently going on. This includes…

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Okay. So it’s a separate payment also.

Snehal Shah — Chief Financial Officer

It’s all in the payment business, yes, right.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Okay. Yeah. Thank you. That’s it from my side.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dixit Doshi from Whitestone Financial Advisors. Please go ahead.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir my first question is regarding this Pune land of 5.76 acre and Bangalore land of 10.35 acre, how much square feet we will be doing there?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah. So now broadly, of course, these are still under planning. So we have expecting about 1.5 million in Pune, 1.5 million square feet and about a [Phonetic] million square feet in the Bangalore R R Nagar project.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay. And how much would be this Walkeshwar project square feet.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Walkeshwar 60,000 square feet.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay. 60,000. Okay. And just one last question. So now since the MD sir also mentioned that most of the free cash flow from the paper division are used for real estate division. So it is very clear that our major focus area is the real estate in Century Textiles. So any thoughts on, you know, transferring the textile business to say, Aditya Birla Fashion or any — are any separate demerger anything, we are thinking on that line?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Dixit, you said, right.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Doshi, Doshi.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Dixit, at the moment we are not planning anything of that sort. We will keep one — keep a watch on the textile business. Textile business keeps on having cycles, etc. It might suddenly become more profitable going forward. So at the moment, there are no plans. We will continue as we are. I accept that we won’t be allocating a lot of capex on the textile business.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay. And just one last question, so, if you can just help me with the location of this Walkeshwar plant?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah. This is very close to the Governor’s bungalow about 150 meters from that.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Governor bungalow. Okay.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sourabh Gilda from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Sourabh Gilda — Motilal Oswal Financial Services — Analyst

Hello. Am I audible?

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Yeah. You are heard, maybe you can make yourself more clearer.

Sourabh Gilda — Motilal Oswal Financial Services — Analyst

Is it better now?

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Yeah.

Sourabh Gilda — Motilal Oswal Financial Services — Analyst

Yeah. So just one small question like whatever launches that you’re planning for FY24, what would will be the cumulative value of it, sir?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Sorry, what was the question, long-term…

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

The face value.

Sourabh Gilda — Motilal Oswal Financial Services — Analyst

No, no, no, the launches that you’re planning in FY24 across various projects…

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Of the value.

Sourabh Gilda — Motilal Oswal Financial Services — Analyst

What could be the launch size in terms of rupees [Phonetic] crore?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

So Tower B in Niyaara will be in the range of about INR3,000 crores. Navya will be about INR500 crores. Similarly, about INR500 crores in the Bangalore first project and about — another about INR500 crores in Bangalore two. So INR1,500 crores plus, INR3,000 crores, 4,500 crores of new launches.

Sourabh Gilda — Motilal Oswal Financial Services — Analyst

Okay. Understood, sir. Thank you. That was the only question I had. Thank you.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah. And sorry, Walkeshwar another about INR500 crores. So about INR5,000 crores.

Sourabh Gilda — Motilal Oswal Financial Services — Analyst

Understood. Understood. Thank you. That’s very encouraging. Thank you, sir.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of [Indecipherable]. Please go ahead. Raj, your line is in talk mode. Please go ahead.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Yeah. Wanted to know the overall outlook for FY24?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

What — which business.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Sir, overall, sir.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Overall.

Snehal Shah — Chief Financial Officer

Overall, the three businesses, yeah.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

So I mean, we are quite bullish on the real estate business, as you’ve already heard. So that is one thing. We don’t expect any major slowdown in the real estate business at least in FY24. We see good business coming from the paper business particularly on the writing and printing paper, as well as the tissue paper. We are keeping a watch on the improvement in the board business. Textile business, we expect some momentum on the upward side in the second half of this particular year.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Right. Yeah. And looking at three years to four years now down the line, how do we see company unfolding overall like?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

So Company is probably now from a — the turnover perspective, 75% of our turnover roughly comes from the paper business and about 25% comes from the textile business. The accounting principles don’t allow us for revenue recognition from our real estate business till we get an OC and start deliveries. But going-forward, we see a considerable improvement in there, as we keep on delivering projects that we’ve already launched. I think the contribution in the revenue from the real estate business is going to grow tremendously. And maybe in about five years time, probably we will be more than INR10,000 crores Company.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

10,000 crores overall top line Company.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Top line, yeah.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

All right. Okay. Thanks. All the best. Bye.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Sanghvi [Phonetic], an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.

Amit Sanghvi — Individual Investor — Analyst

Hello. Am I audible.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Yes.

Amit Sanghvi — Individual Investor — Analyst

Yeah. See my question is that in the opening remarks, we have said Birla Vanya, Birla Navya, and Birla Alokya, these three are due for delivery in coming financial year. Just I wanted to know, it is in financial year ’23-’24 or ’24-’25.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

No. This financial year.

Amit Sanghvi — Individual Investor — Analyst

This financial year ’23-’24.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

That’s right.

Amit Sanghvi — Individual Investor — Analyst

Yeah. Okay. Then thank you so much. Yeah. Okay. That’s all from my side. Okay. Thank you very much.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of [Indecipherable], an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Good evening, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. My questions are on paper sector. So you’ve given with the slides in your presentation PPT. So…

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Hello.

Operator

The current participant has left the question queue. We will move on to the next question from the line of Mr. Dhwanil from iWealth Management. Please go ahead.

Dhwanil Shah — iWealth Management — Analyst

Hi. Good afternoon, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible?

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Yeah. Go ahead.

Dhwanil Shah — iWealth Management — Analyst

Sir just wanted to understand more on the paper side because when I was just seeing your commentary it’s a little bit of mix, wherein one side you’re saying that the imports are kind of increasing and the net realization in the board has obviously come down, whereas on the paper side also, it is slightly — it has declined a bit right. So going ahead, even if I see sir, EBITDA per ton what we did last three quarter, four quarters, currently it is at INR15 odd, right. So INR15, per kg. Sir if you can you just like can you give us more clarity over here, how are you seeing sir, in terms of overall prices and on the margin side also?

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Yeah. The — you see that we make three products. We make…

Dhwanil Shah — iWealth Management — Analyst

Correct sir.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

…paper. We make board and we make tissue.

Dhwanil Shah — iWealth Management — Analyst

Right.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

So all the three have got their own complexities and it has got its own market potential. As far as paper is concerned because we make distinctly two different things in the paper, one is the copier; and the other is the printing, writing and printing paper, okay, that — those sort of things. So as far as copier is concerned, there is no problem of demand, let anything come import. So there is still a large gap in the market for the copier paper.

As far as writing and printing, you know it very well, that it is a seasonal kind of a thing. Presently, there is no demand, but after June, the demand will gone, pricing like [Phonetic] anything. So we have to prepare for that kind of a demand.

As far as board is concerned, it depends upon the pharmaceutical industry and the eatery industry and FMCG and whatnot. So there is always — sometime the imports come in because somebody has put up a plant outside and he wants to offload some material. So these are — these things we’ll do happen. Though the Government of India had put a restriction that now you have to first apply, knew your quality credentials, then only you can supply in this country or import into this country. So because of that, sometimes the imports do come.

But overall, the board demand is, I would say, quite reasonable, but yes, we have to keep our cost down and we have to ensure that we are in the market and supply the right quality at the right price, and at the right time basically. So we are not faring [Phonetic] that bad, but we have to keep telling the market that these are the situation, but we are trying and managing those kind of situation. And tissue market, we are the leader in that. We have got a 44%, 45% market share. So we are doing quite well in the tissue market. So that’s the story about all the three products what we make.

Dhwanil Shah — iWealth Management — Analyst

Okay. Because sir, when we see the MSR in the writing and printing, so, couple of years back it was around INR50 odd and now it is at INR87, INR88.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Yes, You are right.

Dhwanil Shah — iWealth Management — Analyst

Yeah. And most of the input — Inputs are cost, which had kind of gone up and hence the realization had also gone up — or and also correcting, so the chemical prices, the freights and the power and food, right. So going ahead, are we — sir, do you all also expect that this on the writing and printing side, we may see the price corrections or this can be a new normal?

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Price corrections will keep on happening depending upon the raw material prices. This will keep on happening. Now, the question is of what is the demand and what fast — how fast, a particular person wants a particular product. So it will depend upon that. So price corrections will keep on happening and that is the part of the process. Yeah. So but we have to keep ourselves abreast with the whatever best cost we can get and best productivity and efficiency, we can have, so that we are up upfront in the supply stackers [Phonetic]. That’s it.

Dhwanil Shah — iWealth Management — Analyst

Okay. Okay. And sir, post March, have you all taken any price cut, so that [Phonetic], let’s say, on the writing and printing…

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

No. As far as paper is concerned, we have increased it by INR1,500.

Dhwanil Shah — iWealth Management — Analyst

We have increased the prices, okay.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Yeah. Board, we have kept the prices same. Tissue, we have increased by about, I think maybe INR1,000 per ton or INR1,500 per ton.

Dhwanil Shah — iWealth Management — Analyst

Got it. And sir, just last question was on the margin side. So on the margin the — sir, this overall, INR15.5 per kg, INR16 per kg on the net side what we have been. So do you all think that this is sustainable, obviously, if the prices remain were — or there is certain — or on the pulp side, you are expecting the cost to go up.

Snehal Shah — Chief Financial Officer

No. I think the margins will go up this year, as compared to last year what we have seen, but it’s very difficult to say how much and…

Dhwanil Shah — iWealth Management — Analyst

Got it.

Snehal Shah — Chief Financial Officer

How far and when it will happen. But definitely, one thing is sure that the margins will go up this year. What — the margins, you have seen this year, next year, we will be definitely better than that. Next year, means the current year what ’23-’24 I’m talking.

Dhwanil Shah — iWealth Management — Analyst

Great, sir. Thank you so much and all the best.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nirav Savai from Abakkus Asset Manager. Please go ahead.

Nirav Savai — Abakkus Asset Manager — Analyst

Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir my question is regarding this Carmichael Road bungalow, which Aditya Birla Group has acquired and we understand that Birla Estates is only a real estate arm. So is there anything, where Birla Estates would be working on that bungalow either through a JD model or DM kind of a model or how do we understand this thing [Phonetic]?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

No. I do — Birla Estates is not going to work on this project. That has done a separate [Phonetic] saving nothing to do with the real estate business.

Nirav Savai — Abakkus Asset Manager — Analyst

Right. So it has nothing to do with Century at all.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

No.

Nirav Savai — Abakkus Asset Manager — Analyst

See another thing is that we had made a milestone of about INR5,000 crores of sales in next three years to four years and based on that any targets that we have assigned for FY24 in terms of the new BD [Phonetic] acquisitions, and going forward, how will it pan out because this year, parding, the month of April for the entire year, there were no big announcement. So the last announcement we had seen last year in the month of April and followed by this, I mean, month of the April. So how do we see this for FY24 and ’25, do you have any internal targets in terms of BD acquisition?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah. So as I mentioned, last year, we acquired two projects in Bengaluru. This year in April, we have acquired again, two projects, one in Pune and one in South Mumbai. And we have several more projects in the pipeline, which we are looking at. And we’re pretty excited about the opportunity there and we have — we will be going pretty aggressively to acquire projects in our chosen markets. Difficult to put a quantitative number to it. So as we keep finalizing projects and announcing it, we will let you know.

Nirav Savai — Abakkus Asset Manager — Analyst

Right. And sir, any guidance, which you all would like to share for FY24?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

See I don’t want to put any particular target for it because we’re very particular that whatever deals we do, they do the right deal because you put a target and start chasing them, we don’t want to put too much money into it, but do you want to just go ahead and do the right project. Focus is on BD. We are not privy to announcing internal targets. We can’t announce that outside at this point of time. However, we’d just give you the confidence that very aggressively looking at expanding into all our chosen markets.

Nirav Savai — Abakkus Asset Manager — Analyst

Okay. Sir, any guidance in terms of sales, if you could share?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

No, no guidance. We are not sharing any guidance at this point of time.

Nirav Savai — Abakkus Asset Manager — Analyst

Right. Got it. Thank you, sir. That’s it from my side.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kashyap Sriram [Phonetic] from Value Research. Please go ahead.

Kashyap Sriram — Value Research — Analyst

Yeah. Hi. Just had a question on the paper business, I missed the point regarding the price increase in the tissue segment.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah.

Kashyap Sriram — Value Research — Analyst

Could you just quantify what was the price increase taken in the tissue segment?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

It’s about INR1,500 per ton.

Kashyap Sriram — Value Research — Analyst

In the tissue business.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah.

Kashyap Sriram — Value Research — Analyst

In the tissue, okay, And…

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

In the paper and tissue, we have taken INR1,500 per ton.

Kashyap Sriram — Value Research — Analyst

Okay.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah.

Kashyap Sriram — Value Research — Analyst

Okay. And what is the margin now is it — the tissue business would be a good margin at EBITDA level.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

That’s around. I think 14%, 15%.

Kashyap Sriram — Value Research — Analyst

14%, 15%.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah.

Kashyap Sriram — Value Research — Analyst

And the writing and printing paper?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Writing and considering paper around 20%.

Kashyap Sriram — Value Research — Analyst

Okay. Thank you.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Okay.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parin Gala from SageOne. Please go ahead.

Parin Gala — SageOne — Analyst

Yeah. Thank you. The question is for K.T., sir, sir, good evening.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Good evening.

Parin Gala — SageOne — Analyst

Sir currently, what is the active number of proposals in the real estate, I mean, in on the BD [Phonetic] side that you’re actively considering, which is there like in your hands?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

See roughly we have finalized our currently in progress about 10 projects, which is under work either in various stages of launch and construction, etc., considering that the last two acquisitions we did in April. We are again, I said, I don’t want to quote a number to it, but as I mentioned, in each of the target cities, we are looking in at least two or three very, very active proposals.

Parin Gala — SageOne — Analyst

Sure. But sir in the current scenario, where real estate is — prices are going up, land prices are going up, are we able to support projects with the targeted IRR that we typically want or you are ready to make some compromises there?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

We are not willing to make any compromises. We have patient enough to wait for the right projects with the right financials, the right locations. So we are not in a hurry to grab, whichever projects comes our way. We are looking at the valuations. We are very particular about the valuations and the location. So with that clarity in mind, we are moving ahead with our acquisitions.

Parin Gala — SageOne — Analyst

Okay. And sir, lastly for FY24, what is the approximate sales number that you’re looking for?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

We are not giving any forward guidance at this point of time, Parin. So if once we start doing that factors [Phonetic] we’ll let you know. At this point of time, we are not doing that.

Parin Gala — SageOne — Analyst

I mean, last year, you had said approximately, you wanted to cross that 2,500 [Phonetic] on proposal [Phonetic].

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah. Broad — on a broad guideline over a period of time the next maybe two years to three years, we are looking at crossing INR5,000 crores or maybe — or even more than that. I think there is great potential in the market. I think this market will continue for several years this up-cycle. And we are quite excited that the way we — that if we continue acquiring new projects, we will reach there sooner than later. So I can give you a broad to two year to three year horizon, we’re looking around INR5,000 crore to INR6,000 crore annual booking.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

I think as I said in my guidance earlier somebody was asking question about the future, so when I said INR10,000 crores, I said roughly half of it will come from paper and half will come from real estate.

Parin Gala — SageOne — Analyst

Sure, sir. Thank you, sir. All the best.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Biplab Debbarma from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.

Biplab Debbarma — Antique Stock Broking — Analyst

Good afternoon, sir. My question is — first question is on the your Gurugram project, where in the PPT, in the Slide 9 now, you mentioned that total phase one and phase two is 9.4 lakhs [Phonetic] and total is 17.8 lakhs [Phonetic]. And is the last phase 17.8 lakhs minus [Phonetic] 9.4 lakhs [Phonetic] more than 8 lakh [Phonetic] would be the last phase or there will be multiple phases, you will be launching the remaining.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah. Could be the way we — so it could be the one or two phases.

Biplab Debbarma — Antique Stock Broking — Analyst

Okay. And…

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Depending how the approval comes etc.

Biplab Debbarma — Antique Stock Broking — Analyst

Okay. And when you mentioned INR500 crore in Birla Navya, so you are mentioning the entire remaining phases or what is that amount?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

[Speech Overlap] not the entire remaining phase, just under the next launch, which [Speech Overlap].

Biplab Debbarma — Antique Stock Broking — Analyst

Next launch. Next launch.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah.

Biplab Debbarma — Antique Stock Broking — Analyst

And sir this project is a 50-50 JV. So if we — am I right, this is a 50-50 JV right.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

What is that 50…

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

50-50 JV.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

50-50, yeah, you’re right. 50-50 profit sharing JV.

Biplab Debbarma — Antique Stock Broking — Analyst

Profit sharing JV. Okay. And my next question is on Birla Niyaara. Hello sir. Sir Birla Niyaara in the — that the second phase that you are planning to launch, that would there be any different suppose say at that point of time in December 2023, when we launch Birla Niyaara Tower B and say Birla Niyaara Tower A is selling at 75,000 [Phonetic] would you be launching, would you be selling Tower B at the same price or it’s a differentiated price because I assume the product could be different in terms of per square feet.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

I think what we’re planning to launch Birla Tower B, Niyaara will be in more a premium positioning. So we are expecting to launch premium to Tower A at a higher premium to Tower A.

Biplab Debbarma — Antique Stock Broking — Analyst

In the same location another tower, but per square feet basis, it will be higher, right, sir, that is what you’re saying.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah. You’re truly right. Yeah. The product would be different, product will be differentiated the larger format products.

Biplab Debbarma — Antique Stock Broking — Analyst

Okay. And like what some numbers 10% approximately ballpark 10%, 15% higher than the prevailing…

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

[Speech Overlap] to predict, Biplab. We will take that call closer to the launch.

Biplab Debbarma — Antique Stock Broking — Analyst

But it will be premium, okay, sir. And my final and last question is on the business development I missed that part. So now after the closure of these projects, what are the projects — how many active deals left that you are — how many deals are there in active discussion?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Again, difficult to put a number to it. But I can only assure you, as I mentioned in — just now that we have several exciting projects in our — yeah, that considering at this point of time in each of these target markets.

Biplab Debbarma — Antique Stock Broking — Analyst

And one more clarification needed. This Malabar Hills project, Walkeshwar, It is a JDA [Indecipherable] or partly outright, right sir?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah.

Biplab Debbarma — Antique Stock Broking — Analyst

Okay. And for both Pune and Walkeshwar you have…

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Both are outright.

Biplab Debbarma — Antique Stock Broking — Analyst

Both Pune and Walkeshwar, you have paid the money.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah.

Biplab Debbarma — Antique Stock Broking — Analyst

Okay. Thank you, sir. That’s all. All the best.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Thank you, Biplab.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jiten Parmar from Aurum Capital. Please go ahead.

Jiten Parmar — Aurum Capital — Analyst

Yeah. Good evening. My question is on — one of the previous questions, you mentioned that paper margins for FY24 will be higher than FY23. Wanted to know, I mean, will it be higher for — than the Q4 margins we achieved?

Snehal Shah — Chief Financial Officer

Yeah. It will be higher than the Q4 margins.

Jiten Parmar — Aurum Capital — Analyst

The Q4 margins in the presentation is mentioned 32.7%, but [Speech Overlap] yeah.

Snehal Shah — Chief Financial Officer

Only 18% because the rest of the percentage is coming from the sale of land at [Indecipherable].

Jiten Parmar — Aurum Capital — Analyst

Okay. Thank you. And what is the breakup of capacity among the three sections we have in paper, tissue, board and writing and printing copier?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Sorry, I didn’t get your question.

Jiten Parmar — Aurum Capital — Analyst

What is the breakup of capacity.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Breakup of capacity. Board and — the paper is the highest capacity that is about 2,40,000 [Phonetic] tons approximately. Then the Board is 200,000 tons and the tissue is about 55,000 tons to 60,000 tons.

Jiten Parmar — Aurum Capital — Analyst

Okay. Yeah. That’s all I had. Thank you so much.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahil Shah [Phonetic], an Individual Investor. Please go ahead. Rahil Shah, your line is in talk mode. Please go ahead with your question.

Rahil Shah — Individual Investor — Analyst

Hi. Yes. Sorry, I think [Indecipherable]. My questions have been answered. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Himanshu Zaveri from Dhruv Gems. Please go ahead.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

Yeah. Hi. I just wanted to ask like what is the construction cost in our Niyaara project, it should be around INR20,000 a square feet, that includes the construction plus the premiums everything all inclusive, right.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah. You’re right.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

So that includes everything, nothing more.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

Okay. And one more thing about the NCR region, the only project we have right now is a Navya one, right.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Right.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

So we have signed a project in Pune and one in Mumbai right now and two in Bangalore. So what have you, because I — what I hear, NCR has been a fast-moving market right now and the price appreciation has been also quite high from what I know. I think the prices are up by 30%, 40% in the last two years. So are we actively looking at that particular region because there the market is very good from what I hear.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah. So we are looking at quite a few number of projects in the NCR both in Delhi and Gurgaon and Noida. And we expect to close some of these projects very shortly.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

Okay. And I wanted a guidance on margin front because I just want to know, like there are companies in the real estate business in India, like you can compare Oberoi Realty to Godrej Properties, so the Oberoi people are very highly on the margins because their net profit margins are very, very high and the Godrej people go on the volume like 10%, 15% margin. So on what — so are we going to be like a mixture type or we are going to go more on the Oberoi type of models here.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

No. So we are looking more at quality of projects. So we are careful about the — both the returns in terms of the IRRs and also on EBITDA margins. We are focusing on both.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

Sir my reason to ask is that because days of signing of deals in our Company has been pretty like slow in the sense of, if I see, Godrej Properties, which have signed like INR25,000 crores, INR30,000 crores of project like revenue potential in the last six months to one year. So just wanted to know like, we are going more on the margins right, that’s what you’re trying to say [Speech Overlap].

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

We have — see Himanshu, we are focused on the quality of the projects in terms of location, in terms of size, in terms of financial, in terms of joint venture partners. So we give a balanced approach that we are particular or each of these parameters because in the long-term, the success of the project, we make sure that at least we want to make sure that we give adequate attention to each of these parameters, whether it’s the financials, it’s the cash flow, take a risk management in the project, is a JV partner, if there is a JV partner, and most importantly location, access all of those criteria.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

So yeah, basically you want to build a good brand for the long-term.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Absolutely.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

And are we confident about the Niyaara project of sustaining these prices because INR75,000 a square feet is quite high, right. So are we…

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

So I don’t think so. We have projects around the widget [Phonetic] position. They are selling at more than a lakh [Phonetic] per square foot. There is a huge demand. We did almost INR225 crores just in the last one month in March. So there been a huge amount of demand.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

For that it is because of the tax break also do you feel or no?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

I don’t think so, no. Not because of that.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

Okay.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

There have been — on the capital gain stuff that present very few people of that.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

So you are confident that we are able to sell the…

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

….project.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

I think it’s a great product. The people have understood the product. It’s a great location from — coming from a strong brand. And I think very confident that this project will fetch much higher prices in days to come.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

And this is the 2.4 [Phonetic] million is the whole Niyaara, right.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah, you’re right.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

[Indecipherable]. Another parcel also at — we have another parcel also at Worli, right.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

No, you’re right. Next to this another parcel, about 1.5 million [Phonetic] here in Niyaara itself is about 2.4 [Phonetic] million plus another 1 [Phonetic] million opportunity for commercial is also there,

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

In Niyaara.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

The 1.5 million [Phonetic] you said is where?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

That is adjacent to Niyaara, another land, Worli West, we call it. The parcel next to this spot and adjacent to it.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

So that is also [Indecipherable] that will do — develop in the future.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

And the Prabhadevi and the Pune also we have, right.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Those are potential for the future.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

Thank you.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Thank you very much.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nishith Shah from Aequitas Investments. Please go head.

Nishith Shah — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Good evening, sir. My question relates to the paper segment. So what was the export contribution over here and compared this to the last quarter?

Snehal Shah — Chief Financial Officer

What is the contribution of exports.

Nishith Shah — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Yes.

Snehal Shah — Chief Financial Officer

We don’t export much. We don’t — we only do about 10% to 12%, maximum 15% we have done in one quarter. Last — I think in the last quarter, it was not more than 10%. So 10% is hardly about 7,000 [Phonetic], 8,000 [Phonetic], 9,000 [Phonetic], 10,000 ton not more than that. So our contributions in exports are equivalent to the domestic contribution, in fact, slightly better also in exports.

Nishith Shah — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Okay. That’s it. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of [Indecipherable] from Abercrombie and Kent. Please go ahead.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Hi, this question is for Mr. K.T. I just — I was just wondering, what will be the total revenue, which you will be generating from the three phases, you will be delivering in the current financial year? Thank you.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

I think depending on what sales we do this year, I expect about 1,500 [Phonetic] [Indecipherable].

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Thank you.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dixit Doshi from Whitestone Financial Advisors. Please go ahead.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity again. Just wanted to know if you have shared how much we have paid for the land parcel in Pune, Bangalore and Walkeshwar?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

So Pune — yeah overall, about INR500 crores both projects together.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Which one, Pune and…

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Pune and Walkeshwar.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Pune and Walkeshwar put together INR500 crore. And how much for the Bangalore?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Bangalore about INR100 crores — 120 crores.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay. And I assume that in this INR500 crore, I mean, Walkeshwar would be the major part.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

No. Walkeshwar is a very small part.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay. if you can help me with the separate in INR500 crore?

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

I will get you offline.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay. Fine.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Sanghvi, an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.

Amit Sanghvi — Individual Investor — Analyst

Yeah. My question is already answered. Okay. Thank you very much.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Himanshu Zaveri from Dhruv Gems. Please go ahead.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

Yeah. I just wanted to ask like in the future being shareholders, what is the views on the demerger of the business because in the end, the value is only created if you demerge your real estate business, which is Birla Estates, right.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

So hello…

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

Yeah.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah. So you’re right somewhere down the line we have to unlock the value, but as of now, there are couple of reasons that you need [Phonetic] to understand. One is we are dependent on the cash flows from the real estate, from the paper business to support the real estate business till it becomes self-sufficient in terms of its own cash flows and borrowings.

Number two, we have to have sufficient, what we call deliveries, executions of our projects in order to demonstrate our capabilities, etc., and the product qualities, etc., and all that stuff. So I think you’re right, but this is something you have to wait for some time. It won’t happen immediately.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

No, no, we — I understand waiting is okay, but like we have something in the pipeline, right, in the near future maybe one years, two years down the line.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

No. I mean, it’s at the back of our mind not in the — on the drawing table or on the table. We’re not really thinking of it very seriously at the moment because I don’t think it’s the opportune time to do that.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

But the revenues we get [Phonetic] from the real estate business, the major ones are going to only start when the Niyaara 1, the revenue comes in, right, the other ones are pretty small right now.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

As I mentioned see, we are expecting with these three possession [Indecipherable] INR2,000 crores of revenue this year. There is nothing from Niyaara.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

Right. But Niyaara is like three years, four years down the lines, right.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

You’re right. You’re right.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

So that — till then, we are dependent on these two, three, four projects only, right, for the revenue.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

I think we have about — yeah, correct, revenue, but cash flow is coming from all projects. So we have about 10 projects, as of now.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

Correct.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

So Niyaara also will get only slab wise get, right, phase wise when you…

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Every — that’s the rule. Any project, whatever is the RERA on a particular phase, you can recognize the revenue. See cash flow, it keeps coming. It’s only the recognition of EBITDA and revenue or profits and revenue, which comes at the end of the — I mean…

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

Please, as a shareholder, please consider the demerger also our future — in the future, whenever you feel comfortable.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Yeah. I mean, we are all sitting here to take care the best interest of the shareholders.

Himanshu Zaveri — Dhruv Gems — Analyst

Thank you.

K. T. Jithendran — Chief Executive Officer – Birla Estates

Okay.

Operator

Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Parvez Qazi for [Technical Issues].

Parvez Qazi — Director – Research

Yeah. Thanks, everyone, for an enthusiastic participation in the call. I would now like to hand over the call to the management for their closing remarks. Over to you, sir.

R. K. Dalmia — Managing Director

Thank you for all participating in this earning call — con call. I hope we have been able to answer your question satisfactorily. If you have any further questions or would like to know more about the Company, please reach out to our IR Manager at Valorem Advisors. Yeah, thanks, while we are very thankful to all our investors, who stood by us and had the confidence in the Company’s growth plan. With this, I wish everyone a great evening. Thank you.

Operator

[Operator Closing Remarks]