JB Chemicals & Pharmaceuticals Limited (JBCHEPHARM) Q4 FY23 Earnings Concall Transcript

JB Chemicals & Pharmaceuticals Limited (NSE: JBCHEPHARM) Q4 FY23 Earnings Concall dated May. 25, 2023.

Corporate Participants:

Jason D’Souza — Vice President, Investor Relations

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

Kunal Khanna — President, Operations

Analysts:

Rahul Jeewani — IIFL Securities Limited — Analyst

Sriraam Rathi — BNP Paribas — Analyst

Rashmi Shetty — Dolat Capital — Analyst

Dheeresh Pathak — WhiteOak Capital — Analyst

Shrikant Akolkar — AMSEC — Analyst

Cyndrella Carvalho — JM Financial Limited — Analyst

Sayantan Maji — Credit Suisse — Analyst

Prakash Agarwal — Axis Capital — Analyst

Alka Katiyar — Centrum Broking — Analyst

Ankit Shah — Canara Robeco — Analyst

Presentation:

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 FY ’23 Earnings Call of JB Pharma as on date 25th of May 2023. [Operator Instructions] Please note, this conference call is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jason D’Souza, Vice President at JB Pharma. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Jason D’Souza — Vice President, Investor Relations

Thank you, Vikram. Welcome to the earnings call of JB Pharma. We have with us today Nikhil Chopra, CEO and Whole-Time Director; Mr. Kunal Khanna, President, Operations; and Mr. Lakshay Kataria, Chief Financial Officer of JB Chemicals and Pharmaceuticals Limited.

Before we begin, I would like to state that some of the statements in today’s discussion may be forward-looking in nature and may involve certain risks and uncertainties. A detailed statement in this regard is available on the Q4 FY ’23 results presentation that has been sent to you earlier.

I would like to hand over the floor to Mr. Nikhil Chopra to begin the proceedings of the call with his opening comments. After which, Mr. Lakshay Kataria will address the financial highlights. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Vikram. Welcome to the earnings call of JB Pharma. We have with us today, Nikhil Chopra, CEO and Whole-Time Director; Mr. Kunal Khanna, President, Operations, and Mr. Lakshay Kataria, Chief Financial Officer of JB Chemicals and Pharmaceuticals Limited.

Before we begin, I would like to state that some of the statements in today’s discussion may be forward-looking in nature and may involve certain risks and uncertainties. A detailed statement in this regard is available on the Q4 FY ’23 results presentation that has been sent to you earlier.

I would like to hand over the floor to Mr. Nikhil Chopra to begin the proceedings of the call with his opening comments, after which to Mr. Lakshay Kataria, financial highlights. Over to you, sir.

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

Thank you, Jason, and a very good afternoon to all of you who have taken time out of — out to join us for the fourth quarter and annual conference call for JB Pharma. To comments, I would like to take all of you through the highlights of our performance and then as Jason shared, our CFO, Mr. Lakshay Kataria will follow with his views on the financials. And after our comments, we’ll be more than happy to take the questions from all the participants.

So to start with, I’m pleased to announce a robust quarter and a financial year with a healthy contribution from both domestic and international business. During fourth quarter, we reported a revenue growth of 22% to INR762 crores and crossed a milestone of INR3,000-plus crore sales for the financial year.

Our domestic business, formulation business, grew at 29% and the revenues increased to INR380 crores in the quarter, whereas annually it shoot for INR1,640 crores for the current financial year, with a growth of 38%. While our big brands got bigger, the acquired portfolio also ramped up. Our per person productivity improved to INR6.2 lakh in the year, up from INR5.4 lakh in FY ’22.

Speaking of the brands that we acquired, starting with Azmarda, a very potent addition to our Cardiac portfolio emerged among the top 300 brands in IPM as per IQVIA MAT March 2023 and now ranks at the number of 261 as per IQVIA MAT March data. I’m pleased to share that — that thanks to our dedicated efforts of our team, Azmarda continues to draw monthly volume similar to those in our pre-exclusivity periods.

Across our big brands, I’m again happy to share that we have made gains in our market rankings. As per IQVIA MAT March 2023, the domestic business witnessed a growth of 22% versus IPM growth of 8%. I’m proud to note that as per this information, we are the fastest growing company among top 25 in IPM for two consecutive years.

And if you talk about the big brands, what we have been talking the entire concept of making big brands bigger, let me talk about Rantac which gained 10 ranks, which stood at number 35. Cilacar, Cilnidipine, our antihypertensive franchisee gained eight ranks to rank at number 44. Metrogyl gained 52 ranks to rank at number 142. Nicardia gained 68 ranks to rank at number 172. Cilacar-T, combination of Cilnidipine and Telmisartan gained nine ranks to number 194. And Azmarda, what I shared earlier, gained 125 ranks to rank at number 261.

Why I’m sharing these numbers is in lieu of the business that we have achieved in India is a combination of both organic and inorganic mix that we’re trying to drive on the ground with our 2,000-plus medical reps, who day in and out meet all the healthcare professionals and the entire hypothesis of making big brands bigger and not going wide, but going deep in terms of what we have done for our brands, in terms of lifecycle management, incremental innovation, looking at what we can do with the patients in terms of consumerization, looking at what more can be done in terms of driving better adherence in chronic therapy. Those were aspects we have taken of building the business that is where we stand.

And in terms of value, what I shared that we ranked at 23rd number, fastest growing company in top 25, but also I’m very happy to share from a backbone perspective, from a prescription perspective, we are now 15th rank company in the country. JB Chemical generates close to INR5 crore prescriptions in a quarter, which enlightens me in terms of the journey that we have traveled in last eight quarters and we have gained ranks in prescription.

Talking more about what we are trying to do in India, our Chronic portfolio continues to outperform. The Chronic portfolio outperformed the overall industry Chronic portfolio growth at 24% in the year as compared to 11% IPM growth in Chronic part. JB Pharma now ranks 20th in overall Chronic segment, gaining four ranks in last 12 months. And within Chronic portfolio, if we’re talking of cardiology, we are now 8th ranked company as compared to 13th ranked company 18 months ago. And three brands — three of our brands feature in top 25 in cardiology. Beside having a progressive portfolio like Azmarda and Razel, we are well placed to drive the therapy shaping initiative across the care continuum for hypertension to heart failure.

Let me talk about the acquisitions and the inorganic business that we acquired in last 1.5 year. The acquisitions we have made have been a strategic — have been strategic keeping in mind company’s overall objectives. Azmarda and Razel have strengthened our presence in cardiology therapy as I shared earlier and now we are 8th ranked company in cardiology, overall as a segment, and we are the fastest growing company in the cardiology segment.

As per IQVIA March 2023 data, JB Pharma is a fastest growing company in top 10 in cardiology and that was shared earlier. And talking about Sporlac, Sporlac gained 152 ranks in the — in and is now ranking at number 334. And overall in the covered markets, Sporlac is number one brand when we compare ourselves to Bifilac and Vizylac. Our pediatric brands that we acquired have also performed well during the financial year. Smooth integration of our acquired Razel franchisee Rosuvastatin, which we acquired four months ago is as per plan. The company is already beginning to witness good momentum for Razel.

So concluding in terms of the way we are positioned now in India, 23rd ranked company in terms of value, close to INR1,640 crore revenue that we generated for the financial year. In terms of prescription, we are 15th ranked company. Mix of our organic brands as well as inorganic acquisitions, are overall performing as per our plan. And we have 2,000-plus medical reps who continue to day in and out meet doctors. And our purpose on productivity now stands at around INR6.2 lakh.

I shall now turn my attention towards international business. We witnessed good traction in the international formulation this quarter and the year. The Russia business witnessed demand normalization, while we continue to focus on increasing our sale in South Africa private market. Our other BGx market, which is a combination of Sub-Sahara Africa, Latin America, Southeast Asia and Middle East, also reported good results on the back of demand normalcy seen back post-COVID times.

Put together, if you look at what — the way we have performed in our ROW international market, first half of the year, we were flat in growth, but if you look at our YTD growth, it is around 12%. So we have gained growth and overall the demand has come back in quarter three and quarter four, particularly in our business in BGx that is ROW, Russia and South Africa.

Also, just to share in terms of the work that we do in our CMO business, our CMO business has been the feather in the cap, registering a growth of 60% to a revenue of INR406 crores in the financial year, while the growth for the quarter has been 18%. If you look at our CDMO business, we have been touching a figure of INR100 crores every quarter, which has been a fantastic performance and it has only helped us in terms of what revenue and what EBITDA we have generated to further invest in the company.

The CMO business, along with domestic formulation business, today account for 65% to total revenue in the year. I would like to repeat this once again. The CMO business, along with domestic formulation business accounts for 65% of total revenue in the year. The increasing acceptance and continued demand of lozenges was the key driver for this upsurge. We have introduced a number of products in our industrial markets in the world of lozenges with our marquee partners and expect that they should gain traction in the coming years.

We are cognizant of geopolitical issues and economic headwinds and their impact on the demand patterns. Our teams are managing our response in a calibrated manner. Our focus on containing cost continues as we combat inflammatory, as well as environment issues globally.

Now I would like to hand over to Mr. Lakshay Kataria to take you through the financial details and overall performance of the company.

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

Thank you, Nikhil. A very good afternoon to all of you and welcome to our earnings call. I will now be taking you through the financial highlights of quarter four fiscal ’23 and fiscal ’23 overall.

We witnessed a strong growth on our revenues, both for the quarter and financial year. Quarter four, we clocked a revenue of INR762 crores and the year we clocked a revenue of INR3,149 crores.

Gross margins stood at roughly 63.9% in the last quarter versus 65.9% in the same quarter previous year with a sequential improvement from 62.3% in the previous quarter. Gross margins for the year was 62.9% versus 65% last year, largely impacted by cost inflation and higher Azmarda sales in the year.

In the quarter, our operating EBITDA, which is EBITDA before ESOP cost reached INR181 crores, reflecting a 21% year-on-year growth. The margins were flat compared to Q4 FY ’22. However, we registered an increase of 26% in the operating EBITDA for the year, which was at INR765 crores versus INR605 crores in the previous year.

On the expense front, our total employee cost including ESOPs as a percentage to overall revenue improved both for the quarter and for the financial year. There was a reduction in the non-cash ESOP cost and therefore this cost as a percentage to reported EBITDA improved from 19.2% in quarter four fiscal ’22 to 10.4% in quarter four fiscal ’23, and from 11.4% in fiscal ’22 to 9.9% in fiscal ’23.

Other expenses as a percentage of sales improved to 24.7% in Q4 fiscal ’23 vis-a-vis 27.4% in Q4 FY ’22. Also in the financial year, this ratio was 23.6% versus 24.7% in the last fiscal year.

Depreciation was INR32 crores in the quarter, up quarter-on-quarter due to new acquisitions of Razel and INR114 crores in the financial year on account of amortization of acquired brands. The increase in finance cost year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter was largely due to term loan for brand acquisitions.

Profit after tax for the quarter was at INR88 crores with a growth of 4%, while it stood at INR410 crores in the financial year. ETR for the year, that is the effective tax rate was 26%.

We reported a healthy balance sheet and a strong cash flow during the year. Operating cash flow at INR626 crores versus INR170 crores in the last fiscal. The company’s cash and cash equivalents, including investments in mutual funds was at INR282 crores and our net debt situation also improved from INR429 crores in December ’22 to INR266 crores in March ’23. There was a substantial improvement in our net working capital metric which improved to 89 days from 111 days in FY ’22. This is the lowest level of working capital that the company has witnessed in the past many years in a overall challenged macroeconomic environment.

In summary, our journey of growth and transformation continues. And as we move forward, we hope to continue to improve our operational efficiency.

I now request the moderator to please open the forum for Q&A.

Questions and Answers:

Operator

Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] We take our first question from the line of Rahul Jeewani from IIFL Securities Limited. Please go ahead.

Rahul Jeewani — IIFL Securities Limited — Analyst

Yes. Hi, sir. Thanks for taking my question. Hope I am audible.

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

Yes, yes, Rahul, you are audible.

Rahul Jeewani — IIFL Securities Limited — Analyst

Yes. Thank you, sir. So, sir, our organic India business growth looks slightly muted this quarter that for the nine months, our run rate on organic India business was around mid-teens, but for this quarter we have grown in double-digits, likely at 11%, 12%. So what has led to this muted performance on our organic India business? Was it any base effect or the NLEM price revisions impacted us?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

So I don’t think there was any base effect or any NLEM impact. Overall, Rahul, if you look at quarter four has been all — has been soft — this quarter has been soft for us. And if you look at overall the IPM performance, particularly I think two, three category of elements, particularly if you look at respiratory, you look at conjunctivitis, you look at upper respiratory track infections, there I think you could see the upsurge. I’m talking of IPM now. And JB does not have that type of portfolio. Our portfolio is steady in terms of what we market for cardiology, what we do with our antibiotic and GI products, and whatever new launches we have done, probiotic.

So, it was a soft quarter for us. But overall, the guidance that we would like to give for India business that we should always be 300 bps, 400 bps better than the market. That is how and you will see more stability in terms of how — what we report every quarter-to-quarter in terms of what we’ve delivered for India business.

Rahul Jeewani — IIFL Securities Limited — Analyst

Sure, sir. Sir, so for the categories where you are present, can you call out what was the growth at an IPM level for, let’s say, cardiac or the anti-infective segment? How would these therapies have grown at a market level?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

Rahul, I think — offline, I think, Jason, will be more than happy to share all these specific details. And I will ask Jason to share all these. So, more or less, if you look at the growth that we saw if I have to give a top view where our chronic portfolio grew at around mid-teens plus and our acute portfolio grew at around high single-digit. That is what I can share, but more details we will be more than happy to share you offline.

Rahul Jeewani — IIFL Securities Limited — Analyst

Sure, sir. And on the gross margins, we saw a quarter-on-quarter improvement. So, was that gross margin improvement entirely driven by lower Azmarda sales during the quarter?

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

Rahul, we have certainly seen RM and PM prices being in a steady state from November, December onwards, right. Compared to what we saw in H1 of last financial year, the inflationary pressure is much lower. If the trend continues, we certainly see sequential improvement in gross margins as was stated earlier, which should overall help our EBITDA operating margin profile as well. So it’s a mix of steady state RM/PM. And yes, there is a marginal impact of Azmarda portfolio mix as well.

Rahul Jeewani — IIFL Securities Limited — Analyst

Okay. And sir, our guidance for next year’s gross margins earlier was around 64% and we have hit 64% in fourth quarter itself. So do you see any upside just to our gross margin estimates for next year?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

So, Rahul, let me more talk about the guidance that we would like to give for our EBITDA margins. If you look at what EBITDA margins guidance that we have been giving for last two years is 24% to 26%; operating EBITDA, I’m talking. And for the current financial year, as what Lakshay shared, we reported INR765 crore EBITDA which was 24.3% margin. Going ahead, for next couple of years, we are revising our EBITDA margin guidance from 24% to 26% to 25% to 27%. That is what we can — we would like to share, and this will be backed up by some gain that we will get in Azmarda because of now sourcing becoming more softness for us. And equally, the better mix of products that we see which we want to sell and probably some benefits that we will get in the — in overall RM/PM and freight softening that is how we are trying to at least give the guidance.

Rahul Jeewani — IIFL Securities Limited — Analyst

Sure, sir. Last question [Technical Issues] CMO business because this year we saw very strong growth on the CMO business…

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

Rahul, your voice was breaking.

Jason D’Souza — Vice President, Investor Relations

Rahul, your voice was cracking, we are not able to — can you repeat what you were asking?

Rahul Jeewani — IIFL Securities Limited — Analyst

Yes, sir. So, I was asking a question on your CMO business that, this year we saw very strong growth of 60%. So what is the outlook for the next year, given that this year we would have also benefited from, let’s say, an acute cold and flu season [Technical Issues] markets?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

So the fortunate part of the story, Rahul, is that we have a handsome book order for first three months, four months of the year, if we are trying to look at how do you meet the demand. Probably, we will get some view, because see these all business is happening with our partners outside India — outside India and outside U.S. and Europe in every part of the world. And we work with all the big players. So, right now, the demand is there. Probably August, September, we’ll be able to put more color in terms of how do we see rest of the year.

Generally, in this business, the front-end loading in terms of order, which comes in is the way of business of first half of the year, you will see a better performance. But if you get a good season which happened for the last year, then probably you outscore yourself. If I have to give a guidance, low double-digit to mid-teens growth that is what we should get into in terms of what we see our CMO business, but we can outscore ourselves depending upon how the season is there of post viral cough and cold symptoms and that we will get to know only probably in August, September. And at that time, we will be able to share more details with you.

Rahul Jeewani — IIFL Securities Limited — Analyst

Sure, sir. Thank you. Thank you for answering my questions.

Operator

Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Sriraam Rathi from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.

Sriraam Rathi — BNP Paribas — Analyst

Yes. Thanks for the opportunity, and congratulations on good set of numbers. So, firstly, just continuing from the previous question of CMO, so you said that coming for the next three months, four months, you have strong order book. I mean, is it fair to assume that the quantum would be higher than what we would have done in the last three months, four months?

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

If you calculate backwards, our growth has been 60% for the year and for quarter four, we grew at 18%. And if you look at the way we see first three months, four months of the year, we should be at par with what we have delivered every quarter. Going ahead, what I shared earlier, I think by mid of quarter two, we will be able to share more details.

Sriraam Rathi — BNP Paribas — Analyst

Okay. Got it, got it. And secondly, on India business, in the last 12 months to 18 months, we have done multiple acquisitions and now the base is also very strong. So in terms of M&A, what would be the strategy going forward? Which therapies we will target further, the similar therapies or new therapies you’re are looking at? And if you can share then what kind of size will be appropriate for JB now, in terms of, I mean, doing any M&A?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

So, we’ll continue to evaluate opportunities in terms of what is available in the market. And we would like to be — we would like to [Indecipherable] we would like to do a deal in the therapies where we are already present, which will be more synergistic to what we are trying to do in India business from a portfolio perspective. But if we get a opportunity, where we think that we can grow this portfolio better than the way portfolio is growing today, with the concerned company who is owning the portfolio today, we will evaluate the right pricing in terms of what historically you’ve seen us paying three times, four times of the topline and from 15 times — 15 times to 18 times of — 15 times of EBITDA, that is where we stand. And more so, it is not that tomorrow — we are in a rat race. It is not that tomorrow we want to — we have — we will look at things from a perspective if tomorrow it is shooting [Phonetic] overall from a portfolio perspective, shooting from a valuation perspective. And probably, if we can build some synergy and if those type of vessels are available, then we are — we will surely evaluate and look at tomorrow how we can take that ahead.

Rahul Jeewani — IIFL Securities Limited — Analyst

Okay. Sure, that’s helpful. That’s helpful. And then lastly on gross margin, I mean, of course, Azmarda sourcing would have benefited to some extent this quarter. So, I mean, are we still continuing to source from the innovator or we have changed the source?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

See, we would not like to divulge a lot of details on our sourcing strategy. What we can clearly state is that Azmarda as a brand is EBITDA accretive for us. You see the performance even after LOE erosion. We have been able to maintain the market share. The recent month numbers — figures suggest that our volumes have increased by almost 20%. It’s a great, great portfolio for us in a very, very progressive therapy area. Yes, the gross margins will significantly improve. But beyond that, we don’t want to further divulge any sourcing details.

Sriraam Rathi — BNP Paribas — Analyst

Okay. Got it, got it. Sir, thank you. That’s helpful.

Operator

Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Rashmi Shetty from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.

Rashmi Shetty — Dolat Capital — Analyst

Yes. Thanks for the opportunity. Just on the CMO segment again, we had seen a huge demand in terms of cough and cold segment. But we were also planning to enter into the other segments like motion sickness and all. So, when are we targeting those lozenges?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

So, very good question and I missed in terms of what we want to do in the world of lozenges going ahead. You should see us launching lozenges in the category of sleep disorders, in the category of anti-inflammatory lozenges probably Q4 of the current — of the financial year, probably FY ’24. And…

Rashmi Shetty — Dolat Capital — Analyst

Okay.

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

Immunity.

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

And immunity. Immunity — also immunity, sleep disorders, overall, anti-inflammatory, these are some of the category — products that we have developed. And we have got the inputs from our partners. See, please understand, this entire process has got its own gestation period. You get a — the discussions, they happen with our partners, then you get the reference product, you develop the product, you share the product with them, our partners, they do their own research and study and then they come back to you. And then you do modification and then go back to them. So all these takes time.

That is why whenever we are talking in terms of the way new category of lozenges, we will be able to get business. It will come, but it has its own modality. But we have a good journey. These are three category of products, which you should see us launching FY ’24 probably quarter four. That is the task that we have taken and more so — and more so in our offering at the right time, we will be more than happy. Not only this, but if you look at anti-fungal lozenges for dry mouth, those all things at some given time, you will see us more — entering into more categories.

Rashmi Shetty — Dolat Capital — Analyst

Okay. And sir, in terms of geographical expansion, we are currently present in some of the European countries and some of the emerging market — some of the emerging markets, but any plans for the U.S. entry in terms of lozenges? Or you think that, it is like, the company would be struggling and you won’t get a proper tie-ups? Or do you think that it is a commodity business? Any color if you can give on how lozenges business is basically in the U.S. and are you planning to enter?

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

Yes, first focus is definitely deepening our presence in current markets with our existing partners and look at pockets of expanding in the geography areas like APAC itself, identifying more countries like parts of Middle East, parts of Europe, Russia/CIS. In addition to that, there is certainly more opportunities we are evaluating in other geographies such as LatAm, parts of Central America as well.

As far as North America is concerned, yes, a long-term view on that, but too early to comment on what exactly will be our strategy there. Also please note, we have always maintained like Nikhil mentioned earlier, we operate in the medicated lozenges space, right. We don’t want to do conventional lozenges. So just because North America is a big private market for conventional lozenges, that is not something which pretty much hits our sweet spot.

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

Couple of more addition to this. We also are — the road map on the road of — road map of launching around some of the lozenges in our home market and South Africa should happen probably in quarter two. And also we are testing waters in terms of what we’re trying to do in India. We have introduced around three, four lozenges in the country where we are trying to now put a very different model not to market and not direct to consumer, but we are trying to look at how do you have the mind space of the entire digital ways of selling and making your product exposed to the community. So we are trying to put some different model, how can you do some BTL activities, which will help you to expose your products. So these are some of the trials that we are trying to do at the right time. Once we have some more substantial things to share, we will be more than happy to talk.

Rashmi Shetty — Dolat Capital — Analyst

Okay. And regarding your export formulation business, Russia, we have seen some demand revival, but is this temporary or you see that things are stabilized and Russia could actually grow better? Also in your South Africa business, if you could call out the proportion of private and public share in terms of the business, because I think that we are seeing some increasing share in the private market business, so if you could tell that? And finally on the U.S. business, if you can comment something whether we are growing in that market, we are still launching one to two products, or what exactly is happening over there?

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

Well, I’ll take the Russia piece, first. We have always maintained that for Russia and CIS region, H1 tends to be strong and we were expecting a revival when the demand comes in Q3 and Q4, and the same was witnessed in FY ’23. As things stand right now, the demand is much more normalized that what the situation is and we expect the same trends to continue going forward as well. Yes, there were some benefits of currency gain also, which will be pretty much normalized going forward.

South Africa, as the team has also always mentioned, that our focus clearly will be to drive profitability through increasing private share mix and that is going to be the main objective for the coming next couple of years that how do we really drive our profitability by increasing our private market share mix. And that’s in line with our strategy what Nikhil spoke about launching our own lozenges and looking at other product categories.

From a long-term standpoint, we have always looked at expanding our portfolio. And that is for ROW and U.S. market as well. We are pleased to state that as we had mentioned that we will be doing close to three filings to four filings every year. In the last financial year, in H2 particularly, we were able to do filings and we expect that the approvals for the same should come over the next 14 months to 16 months.

Rashmi Shetty — Dolat Capital — Analyst

Okay, sir. That’s really helpful. That’s it from my side. Thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] We’ll take our next question from the line of Dheeresh Pathak from WhiteOak Capital. Please go ahead.

Dheeresh Pathak — WhiteOak Capital — Analyst

Yes. Thank you. For the international formulations business, what is the share of branded generic in that INR1,000 crores of revenue for the full year?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

So, for international formulation business, we really don’t divulge geography wise or portfolio wise shares.

Dheeresh Pathak — WhiteOak Capital — Analyst

Okay. To the earlier question of the growth in the India business, organic growth down from mid-teens from nine months to fourth quarter low double-digit. I didn’t understand the answer. So you’re saying that there is no base impact, there is no anything [Phonetic] impact this quarter. So — and we are growing faster than the market. So are you saying that the market growth decelerated in the fourth quarter and what is the baseline growth to expect? Is it mid-teens or is it low double-digit?

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

No, I think the conclusion drawn there is slightly erroneous to what you have stated right now. See, when you look at the Indian market overall, let’s understand what — at what rate the Indian market has grown over the last 12 months, right. The Indian market grew at 8%, okay, which I’m talking about total, right. Compared to that, our growth was pegged at 22%. Now, in the last quarter of — when you look at Jan, Feb, March MAT, the IPM reflection was slightly higher, which was at 14%, 15% to what Nikhil had stated that, that was because of some categories growing significantly because of a very high season, specifically in upper respiratory as well as conjunctivitis, right.

Now just because certain categories have grown significantly that does not mean that we should be stressed about why we have not been able to grow those categories because we don’t have the portfolio in those categories as well. So as far as our growth momentum is there, it is maintained. Overall, Q4 tends to be slightly softer than Q1, Q2, and Q3 and that is what the reflection is in terms of our double-digit growth, but there is nothing else to be stressed about.

Dheeresh Pathak — WhiteOak Capital — Analyst

No, I’m still not understanding. So, what I’m saying is, I’m not comparing your growth to the market growth rate. I’m saying, as per your disclosures, for nine months your growth — organic growth in your business — leave the market aside, organic growth in your business was mid-teens. In Q4, it is low double digit. So clearly there is a deceleration in your growth in the organic portfolio. Now, what is the correct assumption to have in mind? Is your organic portfolio growing in low double-digit or is it growing in mid-teens?

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

So, the right way to look at it is that the organic portfolio is in a steady state scenario growing at mid-teens only. March tends to be soft and that’s a reflection of what you have seen.

Dheeresh Pathak — WhiteOak Capital — Analyst

Okay. Thank you very much. Last question, Azmarda, in one comment you said, volumes are up 20% pre-exclusivity. In the presentation, it says, March month volumes are flat. So can you just explain like volumes pre-exclusivity, are they up, are they flat for you?

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

Pre-exclusivity, the volumes are up. When we said that volumes are up 20%, they are as per the latest figures reflection of April if you look at it and they — you compare that with pre-LOE and post-LOE, you see a significant difference which is 20% up delta.

Dheeresh Pathak — WhiteOak Capital — Analyst

Okay. But the market volumes are up like 50%. So we’ve lost some volume market share, right?

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

We have lost some market volume share. Our overall value share pretty much remains the same. We have maintained an 18% overall market share. Yes, the competition increasing, generics coming, there will be some kind of competition, which will be there. But overall, we have been able to maintain the run rate and market share, which we had projected.

Dheeresh Pathak — WhiteOak Capital — Analyst

Okay. Thank you for answering my questions.

Operator

Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Shrikant Akolkar from AMSEC. Please go ahead.

Shrikant Akolkar — AMSEC — Analyst

Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for the opportunity. Just on the CMO business, is it possible for us to rank the largest market for our CMO business? And is it possible to talk about which markets are seeing very strong demand currently?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

So, what we — there are — the way CMO business is poised, I think overall Southeast Asia is doing well. That is where we stand. We have business in MENA region. We do business in Australia, New Zealand, and Canada also. But if I have to rate, I think Southeast Asia has performed much better for the last financial year.

Shrikant Akolkar — AMSEC — Analyst

Okay. And on the domestic market, we have seen very strong price increases led growth in FY ’23? Within that, I think, ranitidine, probably also saw some of the very strong growth in last two years. So going in FY ’24, what should be the outlook on the pricing? And specifically on ranitidine, if you can provide commentary on pricing, as well as one of the litigation that has been filed in the Gujarat High Court?

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

So, the litigation part, we still have to receive the details, which we have not got. So I can’t comment on that. On the pricing point, if I have to talk about, we will adhere to what pricing policy government adopts in terms of the control portfolio. Otherwise outside the control portfolio, what will be — what we think will be competitive in the market, there is a price increase. It will take between 6% to 7% that is where we will stand. What was your first question?

Shrikant Akolkar — AMSEC — Analyst

On ranitidine, it has seen very strong growth because of pricing, so.

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

We should see high single-digit, low double-digit growth in ranitidine, that is what we want to, that is what we should see.

Shrikant Akolkar — AMSEC — Analyst

All right. Thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Cyndrella Carvalho from JM Financial. Please go ahead.

Cyndrella Carvalho — JM Financial Limited — Analyst

Thanks for taking my questions. Am I audible?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

Yes, yes.

Jason D’Souza — Vice President, Investor Relations

Yes.

Cyndrella Carvalho — JM Financial Limited — Analyst

Yes. So, first question is, we are seeing increasing strong growth on an annual basis in the domestic market. We are growing the domestic market share also. But somewhere like I’m trying to understand the gross margin profile. Is there any impact on these raw material cost? Still they’re sitting in which is troubling us apart from Azmarda or should we be able to see a 65% gross margin level in FY ’24? Can you help us understand this? I’m looking at an annual level, I’m not looking at quarterly numbers.

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

See, that’s a fair assumption, which you’ve made in terms of FY ’24. If things remain the way they are, then we should certainly be looking at those levels. From an FY ’23 perspective, specifically for the first six months to eight months, there was inflationary pressure. Since end of Q3, Q4, we are seeing that pressure being eased out. And as we mentioned earlier, if the situation remains the way it is and with the Azmarda sourcing mix also improving, we should be closer to the number which we stated for FY ’24.

Cyndrella Carvalho — JM Financial Limited — Analyst

Okay. This is helpful. Now coming to the PAT growth number, I mean, we understand the acquisition impact, we know that. But is there any thought processes to pass on the EBITDA level growth or should we start seeing it more from FY ’26 perspective that this growth numbers at the EBITDA level will start flowing in. But of course, I know our focus on acquisition. So, I’m just trying to understand what is the management’s thought process on this working or looking at the PAT growth levels?

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

So, you’re absolutely, right. I think, there should be a transformation of the EBITDA growth into the PAT numbers. As we are looking at FY ’23-’24, you will start seeing some of that reflection. The drivers clearly being one strong cash flow generation that the business has seen, so we will sort of turn cash positive or zero debt by Q3 this year. So that will take off a fair bit of charge from a borrowing perspective on the P&L. Second, from a perspective of the investments in M&A, as you know, each of these assets are seeing significant growth, both in terms of topline and bottom line. So that operating leverage impact of EBITDA will also start reflecting in PAT. So those will be the two drivers. So as we move on from here, with the portfolio we right now have, you will start seeing improvement in the PAT margins as move forward.

Cyndrella Carvalho — JM Financial Limited — Analyst

Okay. Thanks for that confirmation. You have mentioned ROCE of around 25%. Any update when can we expect these in terms of timeline? Can you highlight what should be a ideal timeframe to look at these levels of ROCE?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

So if you look at last year, we are at a ROCE of about 21%. Steady state right now with no more acquisitions. We should inch up to about 25%, 26% by end of next fiscal. And you will see that sort of sequential growth happening year-on-year to ROCE. So in the next, say, about three-old years, we should target 30% upwards in terms of ROCE.

Cyndrella Carvalho — JM Financial Limited — Analyst

Okay. This is helpful. One more thing, on the performance side, on the India performance side, I’m looking at the prescription growth that you have highlighted and your PBT, as well as your MR productivity, it has improved significantly. What are the key — is it again, our top key five, six brands are the key drivers of this, or even the new products that we are able to bring on our platform are also aiding the entire process here. Can you help us understand the mix a bit in terms of the MR productivity, as well as the prescription growth drivers for us? That’s it. Thank you.

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

It’s a mix of many things. It’s a mix. First of all, I would like to talk about — it’s a mix of — it starts with discipline in terms of the way discussions happens with our feet on the ground in terms of what we expect from them to do when they visit healthcare professionals in terms of what products have to be detailed and company has not shied away in terms of investment that we have done with equipping all our teams on the ground with iPads, equip — looking at in terms of the investments that we have done in putting teams in Head Office in aspect of salesforce excellence, salesforce automation, getting into the world of embracing technology, getting into the world of digital retailing. All those things over a period of time it has helped us in terms of when we talk of prescriptions and when we talk of productivity enhancement. Obviously, the mix has been a combination of all our big brands which I shared in my commentary, which only have been gaining ranks, which only have been gaining market share.

Also there are some other brands outside these seven brands, eight brands, which are — which range between INR10 crore to INR15 crore revenue annually which also have been growing handsomely and there we are gaining good momentum. And last, but not the least, overall the acquired portfolio is also helping us in terms of that — in terms of garnering more and more prescriptions, particularly in mass category, be it in the area of probiotic, be in the area of now heart failure, be in the area of organic portfolio for Rantac and Metrogyl.

So this is overall, which has — it has helped us in terms of being now 15th ranked company for prescriptions and our productivity going up from INR5.4 lakh to INR6.2 lakh. That is where we stand. By the way, we have top two brands in top 10 prescribed brands in the country, which is Rantac and Metrogyl. That also I think details are there as — when we talk of prescriptions. I hope this helps you.

Cyndrella Carvalho — JM Financial Limited — Analyst

Thank you so much. It does. All the best.

Operator

Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Sayantan Maji from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead.

Sayantan Maji — Credit Suisse — Analyst

Yes, thanks for the opportunity. So my first question is on the guidance that you’ve given that organically we are expecting 200 bps to 300 bps to 400 bps above IPM. Now that Sporlac, Azmarda, they are also in the base and whatever synergies are left, we will continue to grow. But is it coming more from your base molecules of Ranitidine, Metrogyl and Cilacar or is it more from the acquired brands further ramping up?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

Both. If I have to talk about Sporlac probiotic, we started, we had 7.5% market share. Today, we have closed around 9%, 10% market share. We have huge opportunity in terms of where we stand. The revenue at the time was close to INR60 crores. When we acquired, the revenue raised to INR90 crores. A lot of I think better penetration that we have done across the country, better distribution practices, lifecycle management launching new versions of Sporlac that is what we have done.

Azmarda, Kunal spoke about in terms of where we stand more, let me talk about the burden of disease. 15 million to 20 million people suffer from heart failure and only 10% to 15% are getting the treatment. And now with the cost of therapy annually going down from 45,000 to 25,000 and what — the way we are facilitating with 500 plus heart failure clinics that we are running with healthcare professionals and point of care diagnosis being available at that place, I think more and more patients are only going to get benefit was suffering from heart failure.

Equally when you look at Razel, Rosuvastatin, the product that we have acquired, we are 10th ranked company in Rosuvastatin in the country. We want to only inch up. We want to gain ranks. And there we have good portfolio. So this was what more from an acquired perspective. But equally, I think the teams, both on the ground and in the corporate have done good work in terms of new launches, lifecycle management for our organic brands, incremental innovation, exploring those opportunities, whether we talk of Metrogyl. Metrogyl, we have traditional Metrogyl 200 milligram and 400 milligram. But the entire focus now is on Metrogyl ER 600 which is a BD dosage formulation, which is more accepted from surgeons and gynaecs.

We acquired this product called Z&D, that is Z&D, zinc supplement from Dr. Reddy’s in the form of drops. We are now launching Z&D liquid syrup formulation. Lot of opportunities are there in terms of when we look at how do we want to look at growing better than the market and we have identified our spaces. And what earlier also I spoke about that we don’t want to go wide and start getting into new category of portfolio and launch new businesses, but we would like to do better lifecycle management, we would like to penetrate deep and increase our market share in the existing portfolio that we have got.

Sayantan Maji — Credit Suisse — Analyst

Sure. Thanks for the answer. So my next question is on — now that we are a formidable player in the Cardiac therapy, we are now ranked 8th with addition of Azmarda and Razel as well. Do you see some rub-off benefit in improvement in Cilacar prescriptions among cardiologists? And do you expect this — that that’s further headroom to this?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

Not only from cardiologists, we are looking at — from the diabetologists also, because if we look at Cilacar T that is what I spoke is now closer to around INR120 crore brand. It’s a drug of choice for diabetic hypertensive. Cardiology, overall, we can share details with you in terms of the prescription that we are gaining at the level of cardiologist for our Cilacar franchise. And it’s a combination of Cilnidipine, Cilacar and Cilacar T and now teams are also focusing on combination of Cilnidipine and Metoprolol which comes from cardiologist. Combination of Cilnidipine and Nebivolol which once again target specialist [Phonetic] cardiologist and also two versions of Cilacar which are triple combo that is Cilacar TC, Cilnidipine, Telmisartan and Chlorthalidone and Cilacar, Telmisartan and Metoprolol. So all these prescriptions, we are targeting to get from cardiologist as a specialty only. Cardio, Diabeto, Endo, that is agenda going ahead.

Sayantan Maji — Credit Suisse — Analyst

Sure. Okay. And my last question is on Razel. So like how you mentioned that export like there were in acquired [Indecipherable] portfolio, there are multiple synergies in terms of improving the geographical reach or improving prescriptions among general physicians as well. So what would be, say, the top one or two synergies — revenue synergies that you expect to play out in that acquired Razel franchise? Are there any gaps that you see where JB is already strong which you can fill to grow this franchise?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

So, the teams on the ground, I was — I met a couple of teams when I was in Jaipur and Delhi. We’ve been a dominant player in the world of hypertension. People — the teams on the ground have started organizing cross talks of diabetologists, cardiologists and physicians under the banner of Lipitension, lipid-lowering pills and hypertension treatment tablets.

So what we’re trying to do in terms of how do you partner with the healthcare professional and position yourself as a company who care for their patient. So tried to run with different types of programs, whether it is for doctor education, whether — what we want — what we ran a campaign for consumers in the world of hypotension, BP [Foreign Speech] in terms of how you can create more awareness at the level of patients with the help of healthcare professionals.

By the way, just going and promoting product in the clinic of doctor is not going to give you results. That era is gone. Because you are not first to launch, you’re a 10th ranked company. So you need to either have the opportunity of lifecycle management or a different drug delivery in terms of what you have or to more partner with healthcare professional or directly go to the consumer with the help of healthcare professional in terms of how they can live a better quality of life and drive better header [Phonetic]. So these are some of the elements that we use. And at the end of the day, better segmentation targeting of the right SKU to the right specialty with a discipline helps you long-term. So, that is what we follow at JB.

Sayantan Maji — Credit Suisse — Analyst

Okay, got it. And finally, can you give the number of the revenue contribution from the four acquired portfolio in this quarter?

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

I think we have shared in the presentation, it’s close to around INR300 crores for the year.

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

The acquired, we given the growth rates, Sayantan.

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

It’s close to INR80 crores.

Sayantan Maji — Credit Suisse — Analyst

INR80 crores. Okay, sure. Okay, thank you so much for answering the questions.

Operator

Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Prakash Agarwal from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.

Prakash Agarwal — Axis Capital — Analyst

Yes. Hi. Good afternoon. My questions are related to two, three things. One is, if you see the AICD data, it had a soft April and I hear the May is also soft. And the main reason was volume decline. And I heard you saying that you are seeing good growth across the newly acquired brands double-digit and one product you said 20%. So what do you think is the key here? And do you think the market volume growth can revive soon?

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

So, first of all Prakash, we unfortunately don’t follow AICD data, but we subscribe to IMS, we subscribe to SMSRC prescription audit data. And I can talk more about that, if you want to hear more about April. April, the market was — market grew at around 11% as per IMS data and we grew at around 18%. And out of 18%, JB volume growth was 11% which was highest. And we were once again the fastest growing company in top 25.

Obviously, when you look at INR2 lakh crore market in IMS, we cover close to INR45,000 crore market. That is what is our penetration when we look at the portfolio that we have got. So Prakash what we have done, we have identified our winning propositions and our winning portfolio where we would like to either gain market share like what we want to do for Sporlac, what we want to do for Razel, what we want to do for Azmarda. Azmarda at least the status now is at least we want to maintain our market share. Somewhere in the world of hypertension with 50% to 80% market share, there we are looking at how do you influence the ecosystem, how do you drive better campaigns with the consumers. So that is what we are trying to do in the company. That is how at least what we can talk about ourselves. Market tomorrow may grow at 8%, market may grow at 11%, 12%, but this is how we are focusing, the way we are positioning as a company. And being focused, this helps us. We are not into 15 categories of portfolio. We are into half a dozen, so that helps us with now three team, four teams. One team focusing on chronic business, one team focusing on acute business, one team focusing on hospital and your overall business in the respiratory and pediatrics. So that is the way we have structured, that is helping out in terms of driving better volumes and better prescription also.

Prakash Agarwal — Axis Capital — Analyst

Perfect. And you mentioned your volume growth was higher. So this price increase that companies are taking starting 1st April, so this is more effective from the second quarter is what I understand from [Indecipherable]?

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

Prakash, every company carries 41 days to 60 days inventory. So that price benefit probably you should start seeing probably June starting or some part of May. That is what practice I have see over a period of time.

Prakash Agarwal — Axis Capital — Analyst

And sir, you mentioned in your presentation, Slide 19, you’ve given this MR productivity, if you could just break it down into the field force and the manager in the total number of the mass staff we have?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

This is MR productivity, nothing to do with managers. We calculate productivity based on the number of MRs. There is nothing to do with managers.

Prakash Agarwal — Axis Capital — Analyst

Okay. And what is that number?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

It is around 2,200.

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

2,200

Prakash Agarwal — Axis Capital — Analyst

Okay. And would you split it versus chronic and acute?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

50-50, 50-60; so it is 55/45. That is how —

Prakash Agarwal — Axis Capital — Analyst

45 being acute?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

45 being acute, 45 being Chronic, 50-50 would be able to renew.

Prakash Agarwal — Axis Capital — Analyst

Okay. And in the last slide, you mentioned that our target is to — in the medium term to achieve 60% in chronic share.

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

Yes.

Prakash Agarwal — Axis Capital — Analyst

So where are we today, and where are the gaps that you plan to address over the medium term?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

So from a gap perspective, I think maybe in addressing every six months, we start — what we did with Cilacar and Nicardia in terms of lifecycle management that is what we started doing when we — in early 2021 and we acquired Azmarda. That is once again in the space of chronic part. Then we acquired Razel. So I think we have got the right portfolio now in terms of where we are. We are 10th ranked company in Rosuvastatin. Only opportunity for us is to gain rank, is to gain market share.

Cilacar and Nicardia we want to look at what we can do with line limit extensions, where we can look at how we can get market share there and build the ecosystem. Azmarda, right now the competition is stiff. But I think the story will be very different in six months where you will see selective players and being patient and looking at in terms of continuing to do what we have planned. So from a corning [Phonetic] perspective, we want to be a 60% corning portfolio over a period of time and probably that should happen 18 months — 18 months to 24 months from here.

So we have got a portfolio. We have got the portfolio. It is not at tomorrow, we are looking at anything that we have not got. So this will happen in the existing portfolio.

Prakash Agarwal — Axis Capital — Analyst

With the existing portfolio you plan to move into 60% is what I understand, is that right?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

Yes.

Prakash Agarwal — Axis Capital — Analyst

And there would be some additions, if there are any gaps.

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

If it comes process. Yes.

Prakash Agarwal — Axis Capital — Analyst

And the current number is what sir on chronic?

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

Closer to 53.

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

53.

Prakash Agarwal — Axis Capital — Analyst

Okay. Perfect. This is very helpful. Thank you and all the best.

Operator

Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Alka Katiyar from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead.

Alka Katiyar — Centrum Broking — Analyst

Hi, my question has already been answered. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Ankit Shah from Canara Robeco. Please go ahead.

Ankit Shah — Canara Robeco — Analyst

Hi, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, you mentioned that by Q3 will turn net cash and you also touched upon M&A opportunities, but if attractive opportunities do not turn up, can you give some sense on how the capital would be deployed going forward?

Lakshay Kataria — Chief Financial Officer

So I can only give you scenarios because like you rightly said, we don’t know how M&A, etc., and some of the other investment opportunities M&A opportunity a minute. So, currently, if you look at our borrowing, it’s about INR550 crores and at a average cost of about 8.5%. We will watch out the situation for one or two quarters, If there is no significant investment opportunity, we can start repaying some of the loans that is always an opportunity. In the short run, we are invested in liquid and mutual funds, which generate in the range of about 7% to 7.5%. So incrementally, if you see what we are carrying is about 1%, 1.5% of cost, which at the right moment during the year, we will take a call in terms of whether we want to start repaying the loans or there is more opportunity to invest.

Kunal Khanna — President, Operations

Just to add to that there is no real significant greenfield expansion. So our capex addition is largely steady at the rate of INR70 crores.

Ankit Shah — Canara Robeco — Analyst

Okay.

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

Hope we answered your question.

Ankit Shah — Canara Robeco — Analyst

Say, in case you do turn a net cash and don’t find investment opportunities, I mean, would you deploy — I mean would it be distributed to shareholders like what we’ll do?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

Ideal would be to repay the debt, right. We would want to start repaying the debt.

Ankit Shah — Canara Robeco — Analyst

I’m talking about once that debt is repaid, so by maybe end of next year, it might get repaid.

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

At least, our calculation shows we will have cash enough to run the liquidity of the company. I mean, at least we want to retain that level of cash in the company. I think that question probably will arise next year and we’ll address it next year when we get there.

Ankit Shah — Canara Robeco — Analyst

Got it. And couple of clarification on financials. So, on the other expenses front, sequentially there was an increase of around INR7 crores, INR8 crores or so. Any non-recurring item in that or this kind of run rate will continue going forward?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

So there are a few non-recurring items. One there have been a few integration-related cost as we acquired the Razel portfolio last quarter. There were few integration-related cost that we’ve taken. In addition, some of the expenses — seasonality change this year, so some of the expenses moved into Q4, but I think overall from a year perspective, like I covered in my commentary, I think we’ve seen reasonable operating leverage. And some of this should even out as we move forward, right. So I think you should look at year as a whole and not look at really a quarter if trying to extrapolate numbers.

Ankit Shah — Canara Robeco — Analyst

Right. But would you be able to quantify the integration related cost in this quarter?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

We wouldn’t want to quantify.

Ankit Shah — Canara Robeco — Analyst

Okay. Got it.

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

Like I said, see, it’s a re-phasing and integrating. Look at year as a whole, don’t sort of try and extrapolate the quarter.

Ankit Shah — Canara Robeco — Analyst

Right. And similarly on the depreciation side, there was an amortization cost of INR14 crores related to brands. So this will continue at a similar rate going forward as well?

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

Yes. It will be at a similar paces.

Ankit Shah — Canara Robeco — Analyst

Got it. And those were my question, sir. Thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the end of the question-and-answer session. And I would now like to hand the conference back over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, gentlemen.

Nikhil Chopra — Chief Executive Officer & Whole-time Director

So first of all, thank you for attending the Annual Conference Call for JB Chemicals & Pharmaceuticals. Just once again, in my concluding remark, I would like to share the overall guidance, that we see for next couple of years. Business going at around 12% to 14%. EBITDA growth we should be better off, we should be growing at around 16% to 18%. EBITDA margin what we have revised to 25% to 27%, that is what we would like to at least share.

We would like to see in terms of the journey that we have traveled in terms of the portfolio for India business organically, inorganically that we have done, how do we continue to at least build a robust company in India with gaining ranks in prescriptions, not only in terms of value. And couple of opportunities that we see outside India is in the world of CDMO which I shared earlier, more therapeutic options that we would like to share with our partners.

And equally new launches in the BGx world, net-net, the journey that we have traveled as the leaders in the company and I can talk on behalf of our company that we want to see organization and we want to build organization which is resilient to difficult times. You don’t know, you can’t predict the future. But overall, it has been a good year for us in terms of what we could — what milestones we have achieved in terms of INR3,000 crore plus revenue and close to INR765 crore EBITDA. And also happy to share in terms of where we stand from a guidance perspective.

Thank you, all. Thank you, all, for patient hearing and we will continue to be in touch with all of you.

Operator

[Operator Closing Remarks]