IRB InvIT Fund (540526) Q4 FY22 Earnings Concall Transcript

IRB InvIT Fund (NSE: 540526) Q4 FY22 Earnings Concall dated May. 09, 2022

Corporate Participants:

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

Analysts:

Viral Shah — YES Securities — Analyst

Dipen Shah — Individual Investor — Analyst

Dheeraj Dave — Samvad Financial Services — Analyst

Gaja Bharatia — Retail Investor — Analyst

Mohit Kumar — DAM Capital — Analyst

Sheetal Shah — Individual Investor — Analyst

Saurabh Chetri — Individual Investor — Analyst

Ashish Shah — Centrum Broking — Analyst

Ashok Shah — LFC Securities — Analyst

Amit Saxena — ASA Capital — Analyst

Sneha Jain — SKS Capital — Analyst

Devendra Agarwal — Vietnam investment — Analyst

Satinder Bedi — Eon Investments — Analyst

Presentation:

Operator

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the IRB InvIT Call hosted by the Company for discussing the Financial Results for Q4 FY ’22. We have with us on the call today, Mr. Vinod K Menon, Mr. Anil Yadav, Mr. Rushabh Gandhi, and Ms. Swapna Vengurlekar from IRB InvIT team. Mr. Virendra Mhaiskar, CMD of the sponsor is also on the call.

[Operator Instructions]

I now request Mr. Menon to give you an overview of the significant development during the quarter. Over to you, sir.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Thank you. Good morning, everyone. I would like to welcome all the investors and analysts on this call. Hope you have reviewed our detailed numbers as in the presentation. During the fourth quarter, January month witnessed an impact on the economic activity and traffic from the outbreak of third wave of this pandemic. The Omicron variant, that is the third wave impacted traffic growth, especially the car traffic in the month of January 2022. However, the collections for the month of February and March 2022 as updated to the stock exchanges witnessed a resilient recovery. Our project collections have improved to over INR5.60 crores for the quarter ended March 2022 as compared to rupees INR5.18 crore per day for the trailing quarter ended December 2021 showing a growth of approximately 8%.

Even compared with the corresponding quarter, toll collections have improved from INR4.92 crores per day to INR5.60 crores registering a growth of approximately 14%, which includes recommencement of Pathankot-Amritsar project as well. Excluding Pathankot-Amritsar project, toll revenue growth would be above 7% over the corresponding quarter of the previous year. In case of Talegaon-Amravati project due to the ongoing ROV works in Nagpur city, the traffic movement will be restricted up to 22 May, 2022 as per the notification from the local authorities. There is a soft impact on the project corridor traffic due to this said restriction at present. And if it falls below 90% of the average daily traffic for previous [Phonetic] year, the Company would be eligible for an extension in the concession period as per the provisions of the concession agreement.

Bharuch-Surat project is the first project under the Trust which has completed the concession period and has been successfully handed back to NHAI on 31 March, 2022. Four of our project assets that is Jaipur-Deoli, Amritsar-Pathankot, Talegaon-Amravati and Tumkur-Chitradurga have received a revision of tariff rate at the rate of 10.6%, which has been effective from 1 of April 2022. The expected traffic revision for Omalur-Salem project would also be more than 14% considering the provisional WPI for the March 2022 month.

The raw material prices have witnessed a steep hike because of the ongoing geopolitical tensions. Due to a fixed price contract with the project manager for 10 years, that is up to FY ’30, we will have no impact on the rise of our financials on account of this. With regard to the acquisition of new assets, the trustees in active dialog with our sponsors, IRB Infra, we are told that they are internally evaluating the options and we expect clarity on the same in the near future. This is [Phonetic] the clarity and the concept, we will then along with our sponsors reach out to our unitholders to seek their guidance on the way forward.

I would now request Rushabh Gandhi to take you through the financial performance for the quarter and the year. Over to you, Rushabh.

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

Thank you, sir. I would like to present the financial analysis for the quarter ended March ’22 compared with the quarter ended March ’21. The total consolidated income for the quarter ended March ’22 increased to INR389 crores from INR334 crores for the quarter ended March ’21. The consolidated total toll revenue for the quarter ended March ’22 has increased to INR384 crores from INR326 crores for the quarter ended March ’21. EBITDA for the quarter ended March ’22 has increased to INR332 crores from INR275 crores for the quarter ended March ’21. Interest cost, which includes the interest on premium deferment for the quarter ended March ’22 stood at INR36 crores, which was INR35 crores in the corresponding quarter of previous year.

Depreciation, which includes amortization for the quarter ended March ’22 has reduced to INR171 crores from INR190 crores in the quarter ended March ’21. Profit-after-tax for the quarter ended March ’22 has increased to INR104 crores from INR50 crores for the quarter ended March 21.

I would now request the moderator to open the session for Q&A.

Questions and Answers:

Operator

Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] We have the first question from the line of Mr. Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead. Mr. Ashish Shah, your line is unmuted, you may please go ahead. As there is no response from line of Mr. Ashish Shah, we take the next question from the line of Mr. Viral Shah from YES Securities. Please go ahead.

Viral Shah — YES Securities — Analyst

Yeah, good morning, sir.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Good morning.

Viral Shah — YES Securities — Analyst

So basically, first of all, congratulations on a good set of numbers. Despite the pandemic, sir. How has been the month of April and May. In terms of traffic, when we look at standard across the portfolio. That is the first question.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

So, Viral, in the month of April as we have discussed, we have got 10% tariff revision and traffic in April also is the robust [Phonetic].

Viral Shah — YES Securities — Analyst

Fair enough, sir. Sir, and secondly, in terms of our estimate when we look at, since Bharuch-Surat is now, has been handed over back to the government, do we expect the outflow in terms of dividend to be at — maintaining at the similar range or there can be some disruption which can be possible? Because, one of the large projects has gone off the budget [Phonetic].

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Viral, if you look at the current quarter’s number, that is the March quarter number and if we just take up higher projects, gross revenue from higher project, excluding the Bharuch-Surat and Surat-Dahisar that is INR200 crores. And if you remove the INR10 crores of revenue share, the net revenue is INR190 crores. And if you multiply by four, then we reached to INR760 crores of revenue. And increase by 10% for tariff revision and 5% for traffic growth on a conservative basis, then we’ll reach a revenue number of around INR875 crores to INR878 crores and INR70 odd crores for a — from the Surat-Dahisar for balance close to two months, then we reached a revenue of INR950 crores and O&M of INR100 crores, then EBITDA will be around INR850 crores, debt obligation, including interest and principal is INR150 crores, the surplus will be close to INR700 crores, INR225 crores is the premium in that PC project. The NDCF will be around INR475 crores, which translates around INR8 payout to the unit holders from the — in the financial year of FY ’23.

Viral Shah — YES Securities — Analyst

Great. And okay, got it, sir. That was really, really helpful. And lastly, sir, since toll revision has been a significant hike this year, which is close to around 10%, so when you look at next year, there is a possibility that maybe the growth will not be on a side 15% growth this year, maybe the next year, the aggregated growth maybe by 5%, 7% and that scenario whether our INR8 payout per year is something which is optionable [Phonetic] or something, am I missing something there? Could you throw some light over there, sir, please?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Viral, if you look at last three, four years, WPI was very muted. And I think, we believe that this is the catch-up effect. And I think this will last for another two to three years. And though, we are not assuming a very high WPI, even with 5% WPI and 5% traffic growth, if we extrapolate the current number itself, we should be able to maintain the payout of around 8% [Phonetic] plus with a 10% revenue growth.

Viral Shah — YES Securities — Analyst

Sir. And lastly, sir, this is the mid two [Phonetic] projects, which are expected to go off right in ’23, but post that there is nothing, which is pending and everything will be long-term, right? At least for three, four years, there is no projects which are going out from the concession number, is the understanding correct?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

That’s right. The next project will go out in FY ’27.

Viral Shah — YES Securities — Analyst

Yeah, ’27. Got it. And sir, Bharuch-Surat and Surat-Dahisar — Surat-Dahisar, have we received the concession which was supposed to receive, because of the COVID thing which was there. So that is now included in our concession or still something can be coming back from there as such?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

So, we are little bit, extension concession period in through the budget as well.

Viral Shah — YES Securities — Analyst

So basically current status, which is there on which is getting over by May, so ideally, it will be there for six months or that is including the extension, which we are talking about?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

That is including the extension part.

Viral Shah — YES Securities — Analyst

Okay, fair enough, fair enough. Sir, thank you so much. I’ll join the question queue. All the best, sir. Thank you.

Operator

We take the next question from the line of Dipen Shah [Phonetic], an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.

Dipen Shah — Individual Investor — Analyst

Yeah. Good morning and thank you for the opportunity. I just had a question on the acquisitions which we have been expecting for quite some time. Now, Mr. Mhaiskar is also on the call, so maybe, could you just give us some thought process about, what are the discussions, at what levels are the discussions? And what is holding up the acquisition, because that is very much needed for to fill the order, which is going to come from the next two projects, that is the Bharuch-Surat and Surat-Dahisar. So, could you just please assess, status at what levels are the negotiation stuck? And why is it not happening despite the Company trying for it for so long now? Some light on it could help us. Yeah.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Yeah. Very good morning. I completely appreciate your concern. Being the largest unit-holders of the public InvIT, IRB is equally concerned to ensure that the public InvIT platform. So — there’s a lot of background noise, can you mute it, please. Yeah, thank you. So as I was saying IRB is equally interested and our interests are totally aligned to ensure that this platform growth in a meaningful manner. While appreciating your concern. Let me put some light on why no asset could be added. While the public InvIT management did their best in evaluating third-party assets, they did not find any meaningful value add from that platform.

But at the same time, the assets that were in the IRB books or the private trust side, they were still not stabilized, because as you know, the concession agreement, warrant completion of the project plus two years of pulling off, after which the exit policy allows transferring of assets. And in the last three years, many number of projects which were under execution either in the IRB side or the private InvIT platform, they were all under various stages of execution, because of which no asset could be added from the IRB side going forward, I mean in this period.

Now going forward as we are seeing many assets are getting into the zone where they will now start becoming eligible, we intend, I mean, we are evaluating this is the IRB side as to what will be the right way to go forward on making these assets available. And once the IRB Board has deliberated on this and we have some clear clarity on the way forward, we will come out with a concept paper, that’s what we have on our mind, because as you know any acquisition by the public InvIT will warrant voting from the public InvIT unit holder.

And to facilitate that, because my own belief is that this particular platform is putting at a substantial discount to its market value and as such any acquisition, we’ll need a lot of handholding explanation of, about the quality of the asset, the value that asset might add on acquisitions. And as such, what we intend to do is come out with a concept paper and once that concept paper is officially floated by IRB on its platform and offered to the public InvIT, we would then reach out to the public InvIT unit holders and explain them the assets that is available for acquisition. What kind of value that the asset would add what will be the different options for the public InvIT in regards to raising the resources to buy that asset. And after a holistic discussion on all of this, then a formal proposal will be floated for acquiring that asset.

This will be the roadmap that we have on mind which we think will be a flat, which will be a way forward that will make the thing easy for understanding for all and adding an asset at our public InvIT level. So these are early thoughts that we have and in this manner, we will take this conversation forward.

Dipen Shah — Individual Investor — Analyst

Okay, thank you. But any profitable timeline. You can give us like how much time…

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

You can. Yes, yes. So you can expect, certainly the concept paper in very near future. We are waiting for IRB board and the deliberations at IRB to get over. But in the very near future. You will hear about this concept paper and once the concept paper rolls out, then we will start reaching out to the public InvIT unit holders as sponsors along with the public InvIT management to explain the asset rationale and start taking the things forward.

Dipen Shah — Individual Investor — Analyst

Okay. And just maybe for further understanding, the concept paper will give us options about a few projects, which are to be acquired or is it going to be only one project on the deliberations would be made. And in terms of financing, we already have options. So, is it necessary for us to have, suggest options, because debt is available for us, you have the headway for debt?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Yes, yes, you are right. So what we intend to do is, if we look at the public InvIT market capitalization today, it’s almost around INR3,500 crores. So offering multiple assets might not be a prudent idea given the size of the public InvIT. So we will come out with one or two asset visibility, what is available and also we will give out options of as you very correctly said, whether it has to be fully debt-funded acquisition, whether it should be a debt plus side there are pivotal combination, which we are working with and we will showcase all of those opportunities. What might make sense and once that detailed delebration with the unit holders happen and we have some consensus amongst all of us is when we will think of moving to formal proposal.

Dipen Shah — Individual Investor — Analyst

Okay, thank you very much. And all the best.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Thank you.

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

Thank you.

Operator

We take the next question from the line of Dheeraj Dave, Samvad Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Dheeraj Dave — Samvad Financial Services — Analyst

Yeah, thanks for providing the opportunity. Sir, my one question is specifically on this March quarter March ’22 quarter, we see traffic data, we see a significant decline across LCV traffic. So all across all assets we see. So while you commented that the cars, there was decline because of some kind of Omicron impact in January. But can you elaborate a bit on why LCV traffic has declined?

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

So as per the NHAI policy, vehicles which have gross weight more than 7,500, licensed [Inecipherable] will be classified as LCV and more than 7,500 will be part of truck, bus. So post implementation of fastag, the vehicles have been, most of the vehicles, some LCV have been classified under path of car or as part of truck, bus.

Dheeraj Dave — Samvad Financial Services — Analyst

Okay. So that is the reason. And so there is no actually decline, it’s the reclassification which has resulted, because we see some kind of improvement in multi-axle vehicle traffic growth most of the segment while we see decline in LCV. Hello.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Yeah, you are right, it is more of a reclassification.

Dheeraj Dave — Samvad Financial Services — Analyst

Okay, fine. The second question I had is basically now since Surat-Dahisar project is moving out and that was taking significant part of O&M expenditure for us, what is the revised O&M? Can you share what would be the arrangement with our panels about O&M project management cost for FY ’23.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

I think close to INR100 crores for FY ’23.

Dheeraj Dave — Samvad Financial Services — Analyst

And this is like, is there some kind of inflation level means, how exactly is it structured, is it agreed upon every year there is some formula which works basically, between the parties?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

The price is agreed for initially 10 year. Now close to balance at eight years are still left, the price is already fixed.

Dheeraj Dave — Samvad Financial Services — Analyst

Okay. So we shall expect INR100 crore in FY ’23 and future what should be some kind of indication? Would it be inflation-linked? That is a fixed price of INR100 crore only, because in that case, we will see great amount of increase in MCDR.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

It’s a fixed price, based on the level of activity, it’s a fixed price, but escalation is already inbuilt in the fixed price. For FY ’23, the amount will be slightly higher and we can, it is already in public domain, we can come back to you with the FY ’24 O&M number also.

Dheeraj Dave — Samvad Financial Services — Analyst

Okay. Wish you all the best. Thanks a lot. I’ll join the queue.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Gaja Bharatia, a retail investor. Please go ahead, sir.

Gaja Bharatia — Retail Investor — Analyst

Hello.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Yeah, hi. Yeah. Please go ahead.

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

Yes.

Operator

Yes, sir. We can hear you. Please go ahead.

Gaja Bharatia — Retail Investor — Analyst

I have multiple question. One is regarding the NAV. Okay, so I’m not able to find out any valuation based vouches [Phonetic] regarding the facility.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

No, we are not clear about your question, please.

Gaja Bharatia — Retail Investor — Analyst

NAV, Net Asset Value for the unit. Okay. There is no valuation report. I mean I think it’s around 90, but there is no valuation report, I’m able to find out. According to SPV [Phonetic] realization, InvIT has to do well in this company, each six months. So where is it exactly? What I’m just…

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

Yes, sir. So we have already completed the valuation exercise. We will be uploading the valuation report in a couple of days on the stock exchange.

Gaja Bharatia — Retail Investor — Analyst

Okay, thank you. Second question is regarding, see, if it is 10%, 5% discount, then it’s fine. But we are looking at significant discounts. So is there any possibility of buying back our own unit. So because that, maybe we do not grow, but if we just buy our own units back, so it will be great for the unit holders, I mean. Is there any possibility or not? That’s secondly.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

While the idea looks very interesting, we will have to check with the regulations, because to the best of my mind, I don’t think there is any such provision to buyback units, but we can certainly look at it and get back to you.

Gaja Bharatia — Retail Investor — Analyst

Regarding is the — our, I mean we are having, mostly fixed interest-rate loans, right.

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

So our interest rates are linked to MCR rates and they are reset on every six months.

Gaja Bharatia — Retail Investor — Analyst

Okay. So, and the last one is regarding tax aspect of our InvIT and as well as our SPVs. Because maybe in this initial years, we will be getting our, more interest and all that. But after some time, it will be more dividend portion. So how it is taxable in the hands of SPV and InvIT, so can you throw some light on that, because I’ve not seen — I’m saying, you know, let’s say 10% rate of — over last four or five years like this. So can you put some light on that?

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

10% is the withholding tax which is deducted by the trust on distribution to unit holder. And…

Gaja Bharatia — Retail Investor — Analyst

No, no, I’m talking about tax on the InvIT itself and its assets, not on unit holders.

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

SPV companies are eligible for ATI [Phonetic] reduction which is available for a period of 10 years out of the initial 20 years. And at the trust level since it is pass through, the distribution is not taxable at the trust level.

Gaja Bharatia — Retail Investor — Analyst

Okay.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Both the interest and dividend is exempt one it is received at that level, when it is paid to the unit holder, interest is taxable in the hands of the unitholder at their specified tax rate. And dividend, so whatever the unitholder will receive the dividend, if the SPV is following the old tax rate, then the dividend is also…

Gaja Bharatia — Retail Investor — Analyst

Okay. But in our case dividend will not be exempt, if it comes, because we are having lower tax rate, right?

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

No, no, we are falling in the old regime only.

Gaja Bharatia — Retail Investor — Analyst

Okay.

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

Maybe exempting time, we need to loose.

Gaja Bharatia — Retail Investor — Analyst

Okay. I will ask if any questions with you.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital. Please go ahead, sir.

Mohit Kumar — DAM Capital — Analyst

Yeah, good morning sir, and congratulation on good set of numbers. Sir, you did — you mentioned the principal repayment — principal and premium repayment for FY ’23. Can you please help with the principal and premium repayment for FY ’24?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Premium repayment for FY ’24 is also close to INR220 crores — INR240 crores.

Mohit Kumar — DAM Capital — Analyst

That’s premium right, and principal repayment of debt?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Principal debt repayment remains close to INR150 crores, principal and interest put together. So close to INR100 crores will be the interest and around INR50 crores will be the principal repayment.

Mohit Kumar — DAM Capital — Analyst

Understood, sir. Secondly on the acquisition, are we not seeing enough small third-party assets. Given that we can buy the asset with the leverage, and if I’m not wrong, I think we have roughly 10 billion room available to buy the asset. And the related question is that, is there any possibility that if we refinance our existing loan, we can increase our NDCF by at least INR0.5 or INR1 on an yearly basis?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

I think we have evaluated a lot of third party opportunities in the last couple of years, but nothing meaningful has been able to come through and now we are going back and we will be — now that IRB portfolio becomes eligible in terms of being made available for the public InvIT, we will be now starting that process as I explained earlier. And when that particular concept paper comes out for acquiring of the assets, we will also take into consideration your valuable idea of refinancing the existing debt, which can free up some more cash flow.

Mohit Kumar — DAM Capital — Analyst

Is it little bit rationale, isn’t it will be more opportune to buy smaller asset and improve the valuation and then come with the concept paper, because you may struggling for, I believe there is number of small third party there should have been available by now and should be in the public domain from the NCLT or somewhere. That could improve our valuation, then we can — then we can buy for — then we can come to the unit holders for raising further equity that is required.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

I think, third party assets have not been forthcoming. We have looked at lot of platforms where such opportunities existed, but nothing meaningful has come through, because many of these NCLT assets what you mentioned has a lot of other legal challenges, which one will have to take up. And this platform is supposed to be a no risk or a very low risk platform where we would not want to take any un-chartered risk when we buy the asset and none of these failed assets come with a clean background. They always have some challenges with regards to completion of balance completion of challenges with regard to maintenance issues and the banks don’t want to take a haircut, viability becomes an issue. So it’s not a very easy path to acquire such assets, when we want to look at a clean asset, which will give the unit holder a very comfortable visibility or distribution path.

Mohit Kumar — DAM Capital — Analyst

Understood, sir. Thank you and all the best, sir. All the best.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Sheetal Shah [Phonetic], an Individual Investor. Please go ahead. Sheetal Shah, your line is unmuted. You may please go ahead.

Sheetal Shah — Individual Investor — Analyst

No, thank you. My question is answered.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Okay.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Saurabh Chetri [Phonetic], Individual Investor. Please go ahead.

Saurabh Chetri — Individual Investor — Analyst

Hi, thank you for taking my question. Am I audible?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Yes, please.

Saurabh Chetri — Individual Investor — Analyst

Okay. And congratulations on good set of numbers. So my first question is like for past five years now, this Company has been in public domain. So what is the strategic region, I don’t see, I mean, I’ve been through all the annual reports and everything, but what is the strategic region, if any, the Company has for next five to 10 years.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

So I think when this particular trust was formed, this trust was formed and floated by IRB with a vision that this will be a platform which we will have completed stabilized assets. And this portfolio will be a kind of a perpetual platform, which will keep growing as assets keep coming its way. So with that in mind, this trust was floated by IRB and it’s now four years old. We still have around five assets that would be a part of this trust. And as you know IRB still is the listed entity and we have been involved in undertaking a lot of other BOT projects which I — as I explained earlier in the conversation are now reaching a situation where they will now become eligible for selling down to the public InvIT which is a platform, which would want to have assets which are stable in nature proven revenue visibility and of those kinds of. So this will become, this opportunity from the IRB side as a part of the ROFO/ROFR arrangement that we have with the public trust will unfold. And we will start offering these assets.

So while IRB will undertake the asset development and bidding side, the stabilized asset platform will then become available on an ongoing basis for the public InvIT to look at acquiring these assets. That was the basic vision when it was floated and we still adhere to that idea.

Saurabh Chetri — Individual Investor — Analyst

Okay, got it. Thank you. And my second question is that, in previous calls, the management had guided that the DPU per unit would be between INR7 to INR9 for like I think two to three years. Do we have the same guidance even after the concept paper and the assets being acquired from the parent company? Will that be the same?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Yes. In fact, I have just explained payout for FY ’23 and we will continue — and we are continuing the guidance of INR7 to INR9 for next two to three years.

Saurabh Chetri — Individual Investor — Analyst

Okay, got it. Thank you very much. I’ll come back in queue. Thank you.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Thank you.

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead, sir.

Ashish Shah — Centrum Broking — Analyst

Yeah. Thank you. Sir, first question is on the presentation, there is a change in the way, the numbers are reported. There’s cross toll collection and there is a revenue share. It says for non-fastag users, etc. So can you just explain what that means and how should one look at it?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

So Ashish, basically the camp [Phonetic] will look for old those who are not having the fastag, they are required to pay a double toll rate. And out of the double toll rate 50% is shared with the NHAI, then that becomes a part of sharing with the NHAI.

Ashish Shah — Centrum Broking — Analyst

Okay. Which is why it is shown separately.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Yeah. So, basically it becomes a reconciliation issue, because in terms of, we will multiply the piece, the vehicles with the rate, then you get a different number and thereafter share is there. So that’s why, if we reconcile the number, we have provided details of the payment.

Ashish Shah — Centrum Broking — Analyst

Okay. So basically that line item is the revenue share which is paid out of the non-fastag users toll collection.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Yes.

Ashish Shah — Centrum Broking — Analyst

Okay. Right. Secondly, there is a provision for impairment loss of INR69 crores, if you can just highlight on what account is that in the Q4 numbers.

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

Basically, the provision for impairment is at trust level for the investment in the SPV companies. There is no impairment at the SPV asset level. The trust have been charging — the trust have been charging interest at 13% on the sub debt and loan provided to the SPV company. So this has helped over the period to provide higher returns to our limit holders. Moreover, there is no impact of this on our NDCF or the cash flow.

Ashish Shah — Centrum Broking — Analyst

I understand there is obviously no impact on the cash flow, but which SPV are talking about or it is all the SPVs put together.

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

No, no, this is for Bharuch-Surat and Surat-Dahisar projects.

Ashish Shah — Centrum Broking — Analyst

Okay. Now that the concessions are coming towards the end, we are providing any required impairment for the interest that we must have accounted.

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

Yes, yes. Absolutely, absolutely.

Ashish Shah — Centrum Broking — Analyst

Okay, fine. Just lastly on the escrow cash balance, which we have, how much would that be on account of Tumkur-Chitradurga, the premium issue.

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

Balance in the escrow account is INR650 crores.

Ashish Shah — Centrum Broking — Analyst

Okay. That is on the…

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

Out of that…

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Majority of it would be payable to NHAI.

Ashish Shah — Centrum Broking — Analyst

Sure. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Ashok Shah from LFC Securities. Please go ahead.

Ashok Shah — LFC Securities — Analyst

Thanks for taking my question. My first question relates to your reply that it will be easier to distribute INR8 per year from ’23 onwards. Does it include the return of the capital?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

It will be total payout, it will be including interest and the return of capital, both.

Ashok Shah — LFC Securities — Analyst

Okay. And secondly, I just wanted to say thank you and congratulate for declaring and giving monthly data for each and every asset and comparing it with past year’s assets. So this will be very good gesture from the trust side. So please continue it even in negative side also, when this collection goes down.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Sure, sure, sure. Once we make it a process, whether it is up or down, it has to continue.

Ashok Shah — LFC Securities — Analyst

And thirdly, this con call which is easier. Now you have made to connect with the con call is easier, because there is no registration required. So, it’s a very easy process, so that is also, it’s good gesture and please continue to have this gesture, because earlier, it was very difficult to get the data and from where it is to be registered and then where we come to the con call and then ask the question, it was very difficult. Now it’s become a very easier to attend the con call.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Thank you.

Ashok Shah — LFC Securities — Analyst

Thank you, sir. Thank you. That’s all from my side.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Amit Saxena from ASA Capital. Please go ahead, sir. Mr. Saxena, your line is unmuted. Please go ahead.

Amit Saxena — ASA Capital — Analyst

Yeah. Am I audible?

Operator

Yes, you are.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Yes, please.

Amit Saxena — ASA Capital — Analyst

Sir, so my question was related to again buyback. We have been talking about it for maybe more than three years now in multiple con calls and we are getting guidance from you that you’ll be talking with the regulator and getting clarity from it. But nothing significant has come out yet after more than two, three years. So given the — given the value add bridge, our units trade, I think it can be a major value creator if implemented. So is there any — anything which is — which can be done, which, in a sense that and if anything concrete, which will come out of it.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

No, I completely appreciate your concern. We will certainly take it up again with the regulators. But as you know, being the new product, there are no set guidelines as such to my understanding on this buyback thing, but we will certainly take it up with them again.

Amit Saxena — ASA Capital — Analyst

Okay. It will be appreciated, sir. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Sneha Jain from SKS Capital. Please go ahead.

Sneha Jain — SKS Capital — Analyst

Thank you for the opportunity, sir. I have two questions. First would be, what’s the potential distribution for FY ’23 that we’re looking at?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

As we have discussed, based on the Q4 numbers, whole year’s revenue will be around INR870 crores — INR950 crores and INR100 crores is O&M expenditure. But then, EBITDA INR850 crores, INR150 crores is debt obligation including interest and principal repayment and INR225 crores is the premium payment. So roughly INR475 crores will be available as NDCF, which translates around INR8 distribution to unit holder.

Sneha Jain — SKS Capital — Analyst

Okay. INR8 distribution. And secondly, sir, I wanted to ask, why is the interest component so low this time?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

No, I think this concern is well understood, and by splitting the distribution for next year, I think we would look at this aspect of having higher interest outgo and lower phase value reduction.

Sneha Jain — SKS Capital — Analyst

Okay. Thank you. That’s it from my side. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We would be taking three questions from now. We have the next question from the line of Devendra Agarwal from Vietnam investment [Phonetic]. Please go ahead.

Devendra Agarwal — Vietnam investment — Analyst

Hello.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Good morning.

Devendra Agarwal — Vietnam investment — Analyst

Good morning. Yeah. So my question is on this tariff hike. It was revised by 10.1% this time, right. So how frequently do we take this exercise and what is the factors taken into consideration while having such hike?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

This is based on the WPI hike of three year, annual revision of toll rates by the NHAI is based on the toll policy. So in two to three of our projects, it’s in September, July — July and September and all the rest case in the month of April. So we have…

Devendra Agarwal — Vietnam investment — Analyst

[Indecipherable]

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Yeah, right. So, it’s the annual exercise to…

Devendra Agarwal — Vietnam investment — Analyst

Okay. Okay. Sure, sure. Yeah, that was my only question.

Operator

Thank you so much. We take the next question from the line of Satinder Bedi from Eon [Phonetic] Investments. Please go ahead.

Satinder Bedi — Eon Investments — Analyst

Thank you. Congratulations on a stable set of numbers and distribution. First of all, compliments like — also said on releasing the monthly toll data that’s very welcome and enhance its confidence. Also thanks to Mr. Mhaiskar for in a very elaborate manner laying out the plans for acquisition of more assets. This gives us the confidence that there is acquisition of what is probably the most key investor concern. We’ve been waiting for this for last couple of years. And kind of sorry is using our low leverage to increase return have been greatly help all unit holders. We must not lose sight of the fact that why we are guiding for INR8 or for thereabouts. The IPO was floated with a guidance of about INR11, INR12. So people who might have entered in earlier had higher price points, spreads, such kind of flex [Phonetic] location and we must strive towards that. So that’s one feedback.

On questions, okay. Mr. Menon your — can you give us a color on how Tumkur-Chitradurga is faring in terms of traffic? What is the outlook you see for it? Because it’s a key asset. And it has been kind of challenging, even for this quarter, the traffic data is about 4% down for this quarter year-on-year. Okay. So what’s your outlook? Do you feel confident that we’ll be able to maintain that 5% kind of increase which we anyway lead because of the fact that our premium increases?

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Basically, we are expecting toll rate, tariff rise as we are — as we have been telling you it is around 10%, because of the higher WPI growth. And traffic growth we are seeing as of today is around 4% to 5%. So that is what we are expecting in the Tumkur-Chitradurga project. And I think it would add more value to this portfolio.

Satinder Bedi — Eon Investments — Analyst

Right. Sir, it has not happened, but Tumkur-Chitradurga on traffic, the inflation, I understand, okay. And I think that’s a welcome development, but traffic, it doesn’t seem to be happening. Okay. This 5% growth doesn’t seem to be happening in TC, at least.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

I think the last couple of years have been muted across the portfolio because of the pandemic, but barring cars I think all the assets have performed pretty well.

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

Traffic mix has changed in case of Tumkur, which is evident from the traffic numbers. So the car traffic is reduced, but the truck and MAV number is increasing.

Satinder Bedi — Eon Investments — Analyst

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Still, the reality is that we are focusing on. Any other sign [Indecipherabe] you feel, you are hopeful that we’ll be able to maintain that. On Jaipur-Deoli, we’ve turned out very good numbers. I wanted to understand if the mining ban has been lifted or is there still a kicker that is expected going forward?

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

So mid-November there was Supreme Court order, wherein partial upliftment of mining ban has done — has taken place, which has improved the traffic on our corridor.

Satinder Bedi — Eon Investments — Analyst

Okay. Okay. Okay. And on Pathankot-Amritsar, sir, healthy amounts still will refill [Phonetic] side, have we received the moneys due to us on account of the partner protest lockdown. Okay. So, if or that settled and are the money.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

No, it’s still pending with NHAI and it’s been taken up very aggressively with them. But the moneys are yet to be received.

Satinder Bedi — Eon Investments — Analyst

Okay, okay. Okay. And there is a MAT credit reversal of INR32 crores, if you can find amplify that, please?

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

So this MAT, it leads to Surat-Dahisar project. So in the books of account, we have reversed this mat trade, however in the income tax that MAT credit is still available, it is available for a period of 15 years.

Satinder Bedi — Eon Investments — Analyst

Okay. Okay, okay, fine, kind of, and that’s about it. Thank you very much. We do look forward to the concept paper at the earliest. And we fully understand Mr. Mhaiskar’s point of view, okay. Only thing is some [Indecipherable] estimated will somehow move to sweat our equity more to try and move back to the 10 level, 12 in the medium term, at least if not near term. Thank you very much. And all the best.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

I think the INR10 to INR11 distribution was the guidance which was floated out for the first three years when the InvIT went public. And I think we stood ground at that kind of distribution did happen. And the initial guidance also, it was pretty clear that there will be two assets, which will be going out in this financial year. So to that extent, the distribution is taking necessary adjustment, but point well taken, once we are able to add more assets on a futuristic basis. I think certainly, the visibility of distribution can improve.

Satinder Bedi — Eon Investments — Analyst

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Thank you.

Rushabh Gandhi — Chief Financial Officer

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you so much. I now hand the conference to Mr. Menon for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

Vinod K Menon — Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

I would like to thank all the attendees today on this call. Hope to see you soon. Thanks.

Operator

[Operator Closing Remarks]