Ashiana Housing Limited (ASHIANA) Q3 FY23 Earnings Concall Transcript

Ashiana Housing Limited (NSE:ASHIANA) Q3 FY23 Earnings Concall dated Feb. 15, 2023.

Corporate Participants:

Vikash Dugar — Chief Financial Officer

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Analysts:

Binay Sarda — Ernst & Young LLP — Analyst

Ankit Shah — White Equity — Analyst

Himanshu Upadhyay — O3 Capital — Analyst

Rohit — iThought PMS — Analyst

Priyank Sanghavi — 5Y — Analyst

Avadhooot Joshi — Newberry Capitals — Analyst

Ankur Kumar — Alpha Capital — Analyst

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

Jimit Shah — Analyst — Analyst

Presentation:

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Ashiana Housing Limited Q3 FY ’23 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions]. Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Binay Sarda from Ernst & Young. Thank you and over to you, sir.

Binay Sarda — Ernst & Young LLP — Analyst

Thanks, Melissa. Welcome, everyone, and thanks for joining this Q3 FY ’23 earnings call for Ashiana Housing Limited. The results and the investor presentation have been mailed to you. And it is also available on the stock exchange. In case — if you have not received the same, please write to us and we’ll be happy to send it over to you.

To take us through the results for this quarter and answer your questions, We have today with us Mr. Varun Gupta, Whole-Time Director, and Mr. Vikash Dugar, CFO. We’ll be starting the call with a brief overview of the Company’s performance of this quarter, and then we’ll follow it up with Q&A session.

I would like to remind you that everything said on this call that reflects any outlook for the future, which may be construed as a forward-looking statement, must be viewed in conjunction with uncertainties and risks that they face. These uncertainties and risks are included but not limited to what we have mentioned in the prospectus filed with SEBI and subsequent annual reports, which you will find on our website.

With that said, I’ll now hand over the call to Mr. Vikash Dugar. Over to you, sir.

Vikash Dugar — Chief Financial Officer

Good afternoon, everyone. Hope all of you and your families are keeping healthy. I welcome you to discuss the performance of the third quarter of FY ’23 Of Ashiana Housing. Thank you for joining us today.

Ashiana Amarah, a kid-central project in Gurugram was fully sold on launch. We also launched Ashiana Advik, a Senior Living project in Bhiwadi. Apart from these new projects, we also launched Phase III of Ashiana Anmol in Gurugram and last phase of Ashiana Umang in Jaipur. Both of these are kid-centric projects. The last phase of Ashiana Dwarka in Jodhpur was also launched in Q3 FY ’23. We achieved an area booked of 9.03 lakh square feet for the quarter gone by. Value of area booked went up to INR485.29 crores in Q3 FY ’23 vis-a-vis to INR240.19 crores in Q2 FY ’23. Average realization price improved to INR5,373 per square foot. In Q3 FY ’23 vis-a-vis INR4,904 per square foot in Q2 FY ’23. This improvement was driven both by increasing prices in projects and change in mix towards higher priced projects.

The total sale value reached to INR877.62 crores for the period April to December 2022. Deliveries commenced in Daksh with 2.99 lakh square feet delivered in Phase I. A total of 3.6 lakh square feet was delivered in the third quarter. This was against a delivery of 2.07 lakh square feet in second quarter and 2.11 lakh square feet in the first quarter of the financial year, 2022-’23. Area constructed was 3.42 lakh square feet in Q3 FY ’23 versus 4.38 lakh square feet in Q2 FY ’23. Total revenue increased to INR135.31 crores in Q3 FY ’23 from INR91.72 crores in Q2 FY ’23. TCI improved to positive INR9.29 crores in the quarter gone by versus negative INR1.31 crores in Q2 FY ’23. Pretax operating cash flows were positive at INR35.6 crores in Q3 FY ’23 versus negative INR1.05 crores in Q2 FY ’23.

On this note, I would like to conclude my remarks. We will now be happy to discuss any questions or suggestions that you may have.

Questions and Answers:

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions]. We have the first question from the line of Ankit Shah from White Equity. Please go ahead.

Ankit Shah — White Equity — Analyst

Hi. Thank you for taking my question. I have one question on construction base. So, can you share the trajectory for construction over next four to six quarters? And also if you can share the hurdles that are coming in the way of picking up construction. Thank you.

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Hi, Ankit. If I just — you were a little soft, so I will just state the question again. You want to understand what how the construction outlook looks over the next four, five quarters and what are the hurdles in picking up construction. Construction outlook, I think we are in that 20 lakh to 25 lakh square-foot zone annually from next year onwards. We haven’t set our annual targets for next year as of yet. But the trajectory that we have, I think we are in that 20 lakh to 25 lakh square-foot target. This year, in terms of construction, volumes, particularly in the third quarter were a little slower than we expected. We had particularly three hurdles that have come in this year. One hurdle was the ban in NCR for construction. This happens every year, but it happens particularly in the third quarter. And also second, what has happened to us is that [Indecipherable] in NCR, because of increasing work in Gurugram and Bhiwadi has become a larger part of our portfolio. So the impact of the construction ban in third quarter feels a little bit more to us. The second issue that came in in terms of construction this year has been that our launches have gotten a little delayed than planned. So, that led to delay in construction in the volumes that we expected. In sales, it’s easier to catch up. In Malhar, we could sell [Technical Issues] when we got the response that we did, but we can’t build only one. We need to take [Technical Issues]. And the third, some challenges on construction manpower and supply chain remain. But I think those challenges are the smallest of the challenges that I’ve said. So, next year, I’m a lot more hopeful that construction volumes will be better because projects have launched this year. As — we had planned to launch five projects this year, which we have launched three, two are getting launched in Q4. So, we will have enough room to do construction next year.

Ankit Shah — White Equity — Analyst

That’s helpful. Thank you.

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Himanshu Upadhyay from O3 Capital. Please go ahead.

Himanshu Upadhyay — O3 Capital — Analyst

Yeah, hi. Congratulations on good set of numbers. I had one or two questions, okay. First was on the project launches, okay, especially in Gurugram, and where we are seeing successes, okay, and next phases are to be launched. Are you re-planning those projects so in terms of larger size of next phase of those projects or anything you’re reevaluating or reworking or how are you thinking on that, because the momentum is strong? Why not a slightly higher — larger phase of the launches, okay. This was one thing.

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Okay. Himanshu, I think we have made a mistake like this on launching the very high side phases, earlier even market momentum was high, and then we got saddled with unsold built inventory, which took a bit. So we just want to be careful around that. To us, like a 4 lakh square-foot — nearly four lakh square-foot size is quite large itself. And as we see momentum, one is always free to launch another phase instead of increasing the size of the phase. So we have — as we sold Phase I out faster than we expected in Amarah, Phase II launch, we have received [Technical Issues] for Phase II, and we should launch Amarah Phase II also hopefully soon and then dig that up as we go along. I think that’s the thought process that we have.

Himanshu Upadhyay — O3 Capital — Analyst

And on the launch, what are the top launches or priorities in next 12 to 15 months now? Can you give some idea on…

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

We have two launches in Q4, which are fresh projects. Phases — so, Amarah Phase II, I will not talk about phase launches [Technical Issues] from project perspective, we are launching Ashiana Ekansh in Jaipur and Ashiana Prakriti in Jamshedpur. These are two big launches in this quarter and in the next financial year, we have five launches planned; two in Jaipur, which is the land in Bhankrota and the land in Murlipura, we have also — in Jagatpura. We have also planned launches of Senior Living in Chennai, one at Mahindra World City and other at Nemili, and Ashiana Amodh in Pune, which is also a Senior Living project that we plan to launch. And that’s the main new five project launches that we have planned. Phase launches will be over and above this.

Himanshu Upadhyay — O3 Capital — Analyst

Okay. And one thing, in terms of deliveries, okay, is there — we had certain phases where we said it may take more time, okay, or one or two quarters. Are we running on time? And is there any probability that we can do faster or how — what’s the progress on that side because…

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

So we have put expected customer handover dates in our sheet, okay, so the thing is slippage of a quarter could happen because [Technical Issues] something that is planned in March, if it goes to April, there is a quarter slippage in this technically, but it’s really a slippage of maybe 15, 20, 30 days. We are generally on track, but this like something might go from one quarter to the other quarter a little bit when it is closing, but generally schedule of construction seems on track to what we have referred.

Himanshu Upadhyay — O3 Capital — Analyst

And on business development lastly [Technical Issues] just business development, what are we doing right now?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

On business development, our focus is to get more work in Gurugram and Jaipur and to look at Senior Living projects elsewhere in the country wherever we can expand to. Senior living is something we want to take to more locations. So that’s the sort of the way we are looking at how to go about doing this in terms of BD [Technical Issues] as I said right now, land markets are in the lease and have been frothy for a bit. I think good news is that on the land front, I can — some signs of corrections are there. One clear sign is that the floating market in Gurugram has slowed down considerably. Prices have flattened and plateaued. Volumes have started reducing, but oversupply is the situation on the plot size that I see coming, which I think should help land markets cool off a little bit. So that’s where we are at in our perspective in a way…

Himanshu Upadhyay — O3 Capital — Analyst

Yeah. Thank you from my end.

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Thank you, Himanshu.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions]. We have the next question from the line of Rohit from iThought PMS. Please go ahead.

Rohit — iThought PMS — Analyst

Yeah, hello, good evening. So my question was, one was on these five launches that you were taking about [Technical Issues] in the next couple of — in terms of square footage, what would it be?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

So in terms of the future — next year project that we are going to launch?

Rohit — iThought PMS — Analyst

Yeah, so these five launches that you just spoke about, these are going to be FY ’24 or the next — this quarter and next quarter. Sorry, just wanted…

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

In Q4, we are launching two projects.

Rohit — iThought PMS — Analyst

Okay.

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

These two projects put together are about 14 lakh square feet. We are not launching the entire project because we launch phases. I would say the phase launches of these would be put together about 7 odd lakh square feet. Half the project should get launched in these two projects. And next year, all the projects put together that we have, size is about 45 lakh square feet of total in projects of which phase ones of all those projects put together will be about 9 lakh, 10 lakh square feet like about 20%, maybe 25%. We — with new phases of existing projects, we plan to launch around another 3 million square — a total of three million square feet in FY ’24, so 30 lakhs, so maybe around — about 10 lakh to 15 lakh square feet will get launched in new projects and about 10 lakh to 15 lakh square feet will get launched in new phases of existing projects.

Rohit — iThought PMS — Analyst

So just to summarize, you are saying that this quarter we will see about 7 lakhs of launches, which will have another 7 lakhs of further phases and overall in FY ’24, you are looking at around 10 lakhs to 15 lakhs of new launches and a similar number for existing phases getting launched. Correct?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Correct. In this quarter also, we will have an existing phase of another 2 lakh, 3 lakh square feet also. Yeah.

Rohit — iThought PMS — Analyst

Okay, so you will launch close to about a million in this quarter in Q4. Correct?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Yeah. And about 3 million next year.

Rohit — iThought PMS — Analyst

Understood. So I just wanted to understand in terms of — so I mean from a — so this year you were given the sales number of about INR1000 crores to INR1,100 crores [Phonetic], which seems now fairly doable, one hopes. So I mean, how are you thinking next year we are also looking at, you said 3 million square feet kind of launches and then obviously the bigger question then is that how are you sort of trying to backfill the launches and the phases that you will launch in terms of our overall land inventory? So if you can just maybe share some perspective there.

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

So, right now, we have about [Indecipherable] square feet to sell as of 31st December. [Technical Issues] some future projects in terms of land available for future development, I’m knocking off two, which in Bhiwadi, in Milakpur and Calcultta because I do not have light of those projects when they get launched or what will happen on those. Outside of that, we still have [Technical Issues] 15 lakh square feet to sell. So we have enough to sell for a bit. It is not that we do not have anything going for another — we have enough for around three, four years as the pace keeps. We will need to add more inventory to manage that for future. That said [Phonetic], according to us right now, land markets are a little frothy and we will continue to keep quoting in the market, but not be very, very aggressive on pricing. I think that is the only thing that we are looking at from a strategic perspective and in my opinion, the land markets are showing signs of collection and plateauing and flattening out. And hopefully over the next, maybe 12 months, we will be able to conclude some transactions.

Rohit — iThought PMS — Analyst

All right, so in FY ’24 now, what are you thinking in terms of the sales and will you be able to maintain or grow?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

We don’t have a pre-sale number target, Rohit, for the next year. We’ll get to know that over the next month. But pre-sales will — might be a little volatile as you go along. It’s not necessarily going to be consistent [Indecipherable] trajectory depending on how launches apply. But right now, FY ’24 to me looks good.

Rohit — iThought PMS — Analyst

Right. Right. Sure. I’ll come back in the queue. Thank you.

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Priyank Sanghavi from 5Y. Please go ahead. Mr. Sanghavi, if your line is muted, please unmute and speak.

Priyank Sanghavi — 5Y — Analyst

Okay, can you hear me now?

Operator

Yes, yes. Please go ahead.

Priyank Sanghavi — 5Y — Analyst

Yeah, thanks. So, Varun and Vikash, good numbers. Since we provide rental and retail services to the project — in our existing projects to the residents, do we track the rental yields at the major locations of our projects?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

We don’t track rental yields, Priyank, exactly, but we do track rental values. So, we didn’t lose a percentage, will have to do the math, but we do track rental values.

Priyank Sanghavi — 5Y — Analyst

So can you — what do you mean by rental value? You mean the absolute number attribute?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

How much rent will you pay per month to rent a flat.

Priyank Sanghavi — 5Y — Analyst

Okay, so can you share those numbers, the current numbers for, say, Gurugram, Jaipur, Chennai and Bhiwadi?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Yes. Can you write to us separately to Radhika at the Investor Relations? We will get that information across to you. We [Technical Issues].

Priyank Sanghavi — 5Y — Analyst

Yeah. I will do that. So when I write for the information, then can you give the necessary information that I can calculate the rental yield as well?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

We’ll see what we can organize, but rental yields are typically in the 3% plus/minus 0.5% to 1%. So let’s say 2% to 4% is the renal yield ranges across a bit. We’ll try and share more information with you.

Priyank Sanghavi — 5Y — Analyst

Yeah, I understand the renal yields do not vary much, but then even between say 2% and 4%, I think so the number — it doesn’t sound big difference, but I think so it can on a practical basis that can tilt a person from buying versus renting. At 4% along with appreciation, people may move from [Speech Overlap].

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

We’ll share that information with you as much as we can.

Priyank Sanghavi — 5Y — Analyst

Thank you so much. Have a great quarter and next year.

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Thank you, Priyank.

Operator

Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Avadhooot Joshi from Newberry Capitals. Please go ahead.

Avadhooot Joshi — Newberry Capitals — Analyst

Hi, congrats on the good set of numbers. Area booked has increased and the realizations have also increased. Just two questions. Major of the realization increased, whether it is contributed by Gurugram and whether we have — are able to increase the realization in Bhiwadi also?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Avadhooot, a large contribution is coming from Gurugram this quarter because, a, Gurugram has played a very large role in the area booking in the first place and also in value of area booked overall. So, that has had a very, very large contribution this quarter overall. So more than half the total square footage sold in the quarter came in from Gurugram, so that made a difference. Second, in Bhiwadi, we have been able to increase prices, not significantly in the premium home segment, but still some upward movement. However, the project Ashiana Advik in Senior Living that was newly launched has been launched at a higher price than Ashiana Nirmay, and we are seeing about 7%, 8% bump up there.

Avadhooot Joshi — Newberry Capitals — Analyst

Right, right. On the land parcels that you are looking — you will be looking, the preference would be again to Gurugram and Jaipur then?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Yeah, so, Avadhooot, the land parcels we are looking at are for Gurugram and Jaipur and we are exploring other big cities with Senior Living as well so those are the two places where we are concentrating.

Avadhooot Joshi — Newberry Capitals — Analyst

Okay and finally on the Pune, the response, any progress over there in Pune because we also — I think the portion is very little, I understand but — this quarter, but how is the response, any progress over there in Pune?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Pune, we are fairly satisfied with the launch of Ashiana Malhar that had happened, selling 1,20,000 square feet till now, we had launched in the second quarter. I am fairly happy with how Ashiana Malhar is run. Obviously, the second quarter was very heavy because of the launch, but if we keep this pace, I think, we are track in Pune. I think the bigger game in Pune is also going to be Senior Living for us. Ashiana Amodh is in like the final leg to get launched. We have plan sanction, we have environmental clearances. We are about — we are in the process of RERA, so I think that will also have a much bigger [Technical Issues] for us in terms of Pune.

Avadhooot Joshi — Newberry Capitals — Analyst

Okay. I understood. Congratulations once again and thank you.

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions]. We have the next question from the line of Ankur Kumar from Alpha Capital. Please go ahead.

Ankur Kumar — Alpha Capital — Analyst

Hello, sir, congrats for a good set of numbers and thank you for taking my questions. Sir, my question was on the revenue recognition. So, we — if I know correctly, we’ll recognize when we give the project to the final consumer, which is the buyer. So in terms of this quarter, we’ll see there is a good jump in revenue, so what are the key projects that we have handed over to the customers in this quarter?

Vikash Dugar — Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, hi, Vikash here. The key project on which delivery has happened in this quarter was Ashiana Daksh.

Ankur Kumar — Alpha Capital — Analyst

Ashiana Daksh.

Vikash Dugar — Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, so bulk of the revenue was clocked due to Ashiana Daksh. It’s a project in Jaipur.

Ankur Kumar — Alpha Capital — Analyst

But this was supposed to be handed over to customer in the Q1 of FY ’24 as per the presentations?

Vikash Dugar — Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, but we were in a position to complete it timely, issue our intimation of position and deliver. So we did that.

Ankur Kumar — Alpha Capital — Analyst

Okay, sure, sir. And now if I look at the ongoing project line, we have two projects in Jamshedpur, which we are supposed to hand over in this quarter, Sehar and Aditya, so they are on on time?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

So, Ashiana Sehar is on schedule. We have received occupancy certificate in Ashiana Sehar. Ashiana Aditya, we have applied for occupancy certificate. If occupancy certificate comes soon, then we’ll be on track for this quarter. Otherwise, it might slip into April as well. But as of now, I think it’s on track for March. But these things can go, it’s not as easy to predict the deliveries as we would like to.

Vikash Dugar — Chief Financial Officer

Although every quarter we do revisit and if we see any kind of indication that there might be a change, we do make the changes in the information that we share in the…

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

And just one more correction on Ashiana Daksh. If you are looking at the presentation, Ashiana Daksh Phase II and III are in the presentation for FY ’24. Ashiana Daksh Phase I has been delivered and therefore it is not in the ongoing project summary at all and it is in the completed project summary, it will be there.

Ankur Kumar — Alpha Capital — Analyst

Sure. Sure sir. And sir, what is our thought from the margin, what kind of margin should we expect over all these projects?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

So, two, three things, one is on the — what I would say our gross profit margins. Gross profit margins, typically we have underwritten 30%, okay. However, in the older projects, average gross profits are a little lower, maybe 27%, 28% is what we are getting. Our selling costs right now would be across on board, so in Aditya and Sehar and Daksh, the selling costs are lower. We are averaging about 4% selling costs and selling costs vary between 2% to 8% depending on the projects. Some outliers might be there from that range also, but that is typically what we are experiencing, but I would say on average about — selling costs of about 2% to 4.5% [Phonetic] is what we are looking at and general administrative costs are somewhat fixed in nature, so they are on a fixed quantum, so that is the kind of margins we are looking at right now. My view and expectations are that we are in a margin expansion zone, and gross profit margins should — have started improving and will, I think, continue to improve and we should breach that 30% barrier on a blended average basis.

Ankur Kumar — Alpha Capital — Analyst

Sure sir. Thank you and all the best.

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

[Speech Overlap] not now, but maybe two or three years from now when we deliver some of the projects which have been launched in this year.

Ankur Kumar — Alpha Capital — Analyst

Sure sir. Thank you and all the best.

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions]. We have the next question from the line of Harsh Beria, a professional investor. Please go ahead.

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

Hi, congratulations for the very good performance this quarter. I have a question on the Ashiana Prakriti project in Jamshedpur. [Indecipherable] share of revenues was increased from 73.6% to 76.6%. I think at the last presentation, it was mentioned as 73.6% and in this one, it’s mentioned as 76.6%, is there something to call out there?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

I will — we will have that corrected, as there is a typo on this from our end. We will get that data corrected. The first one was correct; 73.6% was correct. There is a — it is not exactly a typo, the structure is a little complicated, so sometimes, we give a blended rate, there are some aspects of that we can recover from, we have some recoveries in the revenue shares, as and when expected revenues were a little — I think it has varied a little bit. We’ll have this corrected. This was an error at our end. Thank you.

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

Okay. Thanks for that clarification. If I look at deliveries pipeline for FY ’24, a number of Jaipur projects should get delivered such as Dakash, Amantran, Umang. What are the kind of gross profit margins at which these projects were underwritten?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Daksh, Sehar and Aditya. Correct?

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

Yes. But I think in the slides, you have also mentioned that some phases of Amantran and Umang would also get delivered in [Speech Overlap].

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

So again these would have a blended average of about 27%, they vary between 25% to 29%, I would say. Aditya is a little over actually what we are expecting, so this will vary a little bit and future phases of most of these projects will have a better GP because prices in the later phases [Phonetic] have been higher. So in Ashiana Amantran Phase III, gross profit margins would be higher than Ashiana Amantran Phase I. Similarly, Ashiana Umang Phase VI would be better than Ashiana Umang Phase V because we have been able to check better prices in future projects, so even the gross profit margin will vary across phases.

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

Okay, on a reported basis, I think our EBITDA margins which still — our reported ROE would still be in single digits in FY ’24. Is that understanding correct just on a reporting basis?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

[Speech Overlap] on some deliveries and therefore our ROEs in reported basis would still be high single digits is what I would expect, where we are at right now. [Technical Issues] what deliveries we get in here.

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

And my last question is, it seems now we have enough pipeline that we’ve built over the last few years and we are set for presales of housing INR1,000 crores to INR1,200 crores [Phonetic]. Do we see — this is also the number which we reached in the past. So, we see a scope for expansion of this by 20%, 25% each year, given that we have enough pipeline and we also have much more [Indecipherable] markets such as Gurugram [Technical Issues].

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

So, to the best we have done before is INR671 crores. Okay, so we haven’t hit — we never breached the INR1,000 crore threshold [Speech Overlap].

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

I am sorry about that. I meant the volumes. We had reached about 2.3 million [Technical Issues].

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

A little bit of change in the Company in the per-square-foot pricing has also happened because you’ve gotten — gone into markets, which are higher priced, right, and that has also happened in [Technical Issues]. So, two, three things; one, more than also just increasing, we are also — what I would say, our business is cyclical. So what is it that we can do to increase the base revenues that we would have if that’s the way to put it, is something that’s what we are also considering and seeing what to do around that. And I think one of the strategies that we’ll play out is we will look to expand Senior Living. So as we do Senior Living more and more, I think overall base case numbers should increase and hopefully that will start playing out and as you said, 25 [Phonetic], those things will be important. We are also looking to dig deeper into Gurugram. We started seeing success there after a lot of work. We also believe that Jaipur, also we can do more work than what we’re doing today. So both opportunities for growth there remain, and we are looking for higher numbers. [Technical Issues] as I’ve said, land prices were worrying me and still worry me. [Technical Issues] in my sense is started coming that — land prices have started plateauing — I am sorry stabilizing and it might be an opportune time to start looking at transactions again. And if that happens, we can get — we can scale that up further. So that’s the way we’re looking at things. Overall, I’m excited about the business right now.

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

Just follow up on this is, what is the current proportion of our business coming from senior citizens and how do you envisage this [Technical Issues]?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

On an annual basis, it varies anywhere between 10% to 20%. It is the number that we are — we have had –we had a little higher number. This year the percentage of Senior Living became lower because we launched other projects and the base became larger. So, Vikash is here gesturing to me [Phonetic] on Senior Living, instead of tracking percentages, what we want to track is what kind of an absolute base-case scenario in Senior Living are we able to hit.

Vikash Dugar — Chief Financial Officer

Just as an example, suppose we clocked 15 lakh [Phonetic] and out of that, we did 3 lakh square feet of Senior Living, the percentage looks like a good healthy 20%. But then, if — suppose the overall base goes up to say 20 lakh, 25 lakh [Phonetic], that same 3 lakh square feet looks like a small percentage, so it’s the absolute number that we should ideally target that how do we go from 3 lakh to 5 lakh or 6 lakh or even more than that.

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

So, right now I think this year we will do about INR150 crores [Phonetic] value of area booked in Senior Living this year, this is what my expectations are. I think we have a three-, four-year view to get this north of INR300 crores to INR400 crores is where at least we would like it to get to, if not more and with higher overall margins as compared to what we would experience in non-trivial living [Phonetic], so get a little higher profit margin and better returns on our capital.

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

Finally, so just to simplify this, if we’re doing [Technical Issues] we would at least be doing profit margins of 15% on Senior Living. So going ahead, the idea is to kind of trying to get this profit pool, like expand this profit pool and make that the base?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Correct, yes, yes, it’s to expand this profit pool and make it a bigger part of the pie. Yes, absolutely.

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

And that would hopefully reduce the cyclicality in our numbers?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Can you say that again, please?

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

And this would hopefully reduce the cyclicality in the reported numbers going forward?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Absolutely, we would like to reduce — more than the cyclicality in the reported numbers, [Technical Issues] in the operations. Reported numbers have some cyclicality driven by accounting norms. That’s not as the bigger worries, the bigger things is cyclicality in the real estate cycle itself and protect ourselves.

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

Yeah. I appreciate that point. Also is my understanding correct that we would at least be doing the 15% profit margins in Senior Living housing?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Yeah, so we don’t do after tax profit margins on project-by-project scenario or segmented. We look at it only at the gross profit level again and these margins vary project to project. But I — what we are aiming for in Senior Living gross profit margins to be about 3 to 5 percentage points higher than general housing.

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

And is the selling cost also lower in these senior citizen projects?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Senior Living selling costs are similar, but higher at the launch of a new location, new project and then trends downwards as and when we build a brand in the location.

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

So, it follows the normal cycle as across the projects. Thanks for the clarification. That’s it from my side.

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions]. We have the next question from the line of Jimit Shah from Investor [Phonetic]. Please go ahead.

Jimit Shah — Analyst — Analyst

Sir, can you give any guidance on deliveries for Q4 and for FY ’24 and what about profitability? When can we achieve consistent profitability?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Hi, Jimit, so on terms of delivery, guidances are provided in the 17th slide of the deck that we have uploaded. Okay. It says in which year we expect to hand over to the customer — that’s the date — that’s the quarter for delivery you can expect that we’ll take.

Jimit Shah — Analyst — Analyst

So, if I’m right, we will deliver 6 million square — or 6 lakh square feet in Q4?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

I would expect that. Yes, we should have about 6 lakh square feet. 6 lakh, 6.5 lakh square footage is what we will deliver.

Jimit Shah — Analyst — Analyst

10 lakh to 12 lakh square feet in Q1?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

So. I don’t have the Q1 [Technical Issues] I don’t see those numbers as 10 lakh to 12 lakh square feet. If I total up this sheet, it is more like 6.5 lakh square feet [Speech Overlap].

Jimit Shah — Analyst — Analyst

6.5 lakh square feet in Q4 you are expecting?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

And even [Indecipherable] Q1 of FY ’24, if you look at, there are three deliveries planned in Q1 of FY ’24.

Jimit Shah — Analyst — Analyst

Yeah. Right, right, right.

Vikash Dugar — Chief Financial Officer

Again, these deliveries can go one quarter here or there a little bit as Varun said. Ashiana Daksh Phase II is related to Q1, but there is a potential of delivering it in Q4 also of FY ’23 itself. Ashiana Aditya which is related to Q4 of FY ’23 could go to Q1 of FY ’24, we deliver on getting occupancy certificates from the government, which can sometimes get delayed more than we expect.

Jimit Shah — Analyst — Analyst

Okay [Speech Overlap].

Vikash Dugar — Chief Financial Officer

And sometimes come in faster than we expect. So, I would just say that, keep that in mind.

Jimit Shah — Analyst — Analyst

Right, right. Okay sir, thank you. So, when can we expect consistent profitability?

Vikash Dugar — Chief Financial Officer

Consistent profitability from a reported perspective, I think, is a difficult thing, because our deliveries can get bunched up. What we have had though, over the last actually two, three years now, consistently positive good operating cash flows, from a metric to see whether the operations are positive, that’s what we look at. If you have seen, FY ’20-’21, FY ’21-’22, both had great cash flows. ’22-’23, we were a little slow because one blip of quarter where we frontloaded some cash flows for construction before launches and for advertising, but if you see that, that’s the consistent number that we would like to track from an operational perspective. Reported profits can vary a little bit here.

Jimit Shah — Analyst — Analyst

Okay, sir, thank you.

Vikash Dugar — Chief Financial Officer

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions]. We have the next question from the line of Harsh Beria, a professional investor. Please go ahead.

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

Hi, thanks for this follow up. I think in the last call or the call before that you were discussing about some capital return policies such as a buyback and maybe a dividend. Have there been more discussions about it by the Board?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

There have been — so on buybacks and dividends and capital return thought processes, we have had a few discussions at least at the executive board member levels, if not at the full board level, there has been discussions. We are discussing and deliberating and trying to wrap our heads around it. I think it will — it’s a process that we are understanding whether we should [Technical Issues].

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

Okay, one question, [Technical Issues] about the number of units that we have sold. So we have given numbers in terms of volumes and [Indecipherable] value. How much units have we sold so far this year?

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Hi. It would be hard to say, but I would say, 1,200 or something. I think we’re averaging about 70 lakh unit as a ticket size somewhere around that. I don’t have the number right now. But you can again if you write to Investor Relations, we’ll send that data out for you.

Harsh Beria — Professional Investor — Analyst

Perfect. Thanks for that clarification and that’s it from my side.

Varun Gupta — Whole-Time Director

Thank you, Harsh.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions]. As there are no further questions, I would like to hand the conference back to the management for closing comments. Please go ahead.

Vikash Dugar — Chief Financial Officer

We would like to thank all of you for being on this call and being so patient with all the questions and answers. If we were unable to take any questions, please feel free to write to us directly or reach out to us directly. And with that, we’d like to conclude the call. A lot of the material we have spoken about is posted on our website. And you can also e-mail your queries for any further clarification. Thank you once again for taking the time to join us on the call. Thank you.

Operator

[Operator Closing Remarks].