Note: This is a preliminary transcript and may contain inaccuracies. It will be updated with a final, fully-reviewed version soon.
PERMANENT MAGNETS LTD (NSE: PERMAGN) Q4 2026 Earnings Call dated May. 18, 2026
Corporate Participants:
Sayyam Pokarna — Investor Relations
Sharat Tataria — Managing Director
Analysts:
Rohit — Analyst
Mishita — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Permanent Magnets Limited Q4 and FY25 26 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sayyam Pokarna, IR advisor at TIL Advisors.
Thank you. And over to you sir.
Sayyam Pokarna — Investor Relations
Thank you. Nirav. Good afternoon everyone. We appreciate you taking out the time to join us today on this call. The Investor presentation for FY26 has already been uploaded on the stock exchange and on the company website. To take us through today’s results, we have with us from the management team Mr. Sharat Tataria, managing director and Mr. Sukmal Jain, senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. We will begin with a brief overview of the quarter and the financial year from Mr. Gapadiya followed by a Q and A session.
Please note that any forward looking statement made during this call must be viewed in conjunction with the risks and uncertainties that we face. These risk factors
Operator
Have been outlined in our annual report. With that, I would now like to hand over the call to Mr. Bhatarya. Over to you sir.
Sayyam Pokarna — Investor Relations
Yeah. Thank you. Siam. Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us today for Permanent Magnet Limited quarter four and financial year 26 earnings conference call. I will begin with a review of our performance for the past quarter and financial year. Standalone revenue from operations for quarter four stood at 66 crores, an increase of 47% year on year. In the full year, standalone revenue from operations stood at 225 crores reflecting an increase of 13% year on year. While the first half of FY26 was impacted by lower exports particularly to the USA on account of tariff policies and a weaker domestic demand in energy meter segment.
The second half of financial year 26 fared better in terms of top line growth led by Alloys division along with an overall recovery in exports and steady performance in electricity meter in automotive applications. The EBITDA margins for the year stood at 17% as against 14% in the previous year. It was aided by a favorable product mix and revenue scale up in the second half of financial year 26. For quarter four, EBITDA margins came in at 15% an improvement on year on year basis with some moderation on a sequential basis.
Now on the project execution front the new furnace in the Alloys division was installed in January and commercialized in quarter four of financial year 26. It has contributed to the performance during the quarter. We aim to further scale up commercial production in Alloys division through the coming financial year and are also engaging with customers across oil and gas, aerospace and other sectors. On the relay project. We are behind the original timelines with commercial ramp up now expected from second half of financial year 27.
Testing is currently underway and customer approvals are in progress. Both of which have taken longer than our initial expectations. While the facility is almost ready, we foresee commercial business taking up pace only in the later part of this year. For Quantum magnetics, the phase two CapEx covering block cutting, machining and surface treatment is expected to be implemented in quarter three, quarter four of financial year 27. Additionally, future investments for powder to block manufacturing project are already under planning stage.
Looking ahead, our focus during the coming year is on scaling up commercial operations across our key growth pillars which are alloys, relays and Quantum magnetics. The commercial ramp up of these projects projects is expected to drive growth in the coming year. With these updates, I would now like to open the floor for questions. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchdown telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you must press star and do. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue ascends. Participants, you may press star N1 to ask the question. The first question is from the line of from orbit family office.
Please go ahead.
Sharat Tataria
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. And firstly sir, congrats for the good set of numbers. So I have three questions. So firstly sir, on the Rarath side like government has recently came out with the PLI scheme. So are we also expecting any incentives from the government in terms of capex that we will be doing in the rare earth segment?
Sayyam Pokarna
We are yet evaluating the scheme and that decision. Sorry to interrupt
Operator
You, Dr. Mish. Can you mute your line from your side please?
Sharat Tataria
Yeah, sure.
Operator
Thank you.
Sayyam Pokarna
Yeah. We are yet evaluating the scheme and that decision. Whether it’s paid or what to do, we will take. In the. In this coming few weeks there are multiple schemes. So which scheme to apply for that is also one of the things that we are considering.
Sharat Tataria
Understood, understood. And so in terms of the revenues from rath. So can you please quantify how much revenues we made in this FY26 and what was the margins that we done on the assembly part.
Sayyam Pokarna
There was no revenue in FY26 because of the restrictions from China
Operator
For export of magnets. So we could not do any business in FY26. So
Sayyam Pokarna
Those revenues are expected to start in FY27.
Sharat Tataria
Understood? Understood. And so my last question is on alloys. So we are also expecting as our new furnace has came live in Jan. So and you mentioned on the second half of this year we be expecting more ramp up on this side. So are we expecting more ramp up from the aerospace division or it will be more different from the oil and gas and other segments?
Sayyam Pokarna
Right now we are looking at oil and gas more ramp up and that is already in commercial production. So that will that is already started from now only for the second half we are looking at for the relay business.
Sharat Tataria
Understood? Got it sir. Thank you so much. And all the best for your future.
Sayyam Pokarna
Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Want to ask a question? Next question is from Land of Rohit from iPod PMS. Please go ahead.
Sayyam Pokarna
Hello. Yes.
Operator
Yes, go ahead.
Sayyam Pokarna
So on this along, sir, so what utilization are you working on? And like
Operator
Let’s say in Q4 exit and how do you see this ramping up in financial year 27?
Sayyam Pokarna
Sorry, can you repeat that a little louder?
Rohit
Okay. So I was saying so in the alloy segment, what was the exit utilization rate in Q4 and how do you see what kind of contribution can alloys do for us in
Sharat Tataria
FY27 in terms of top line?
Sayyam Pokarna
So utilization. We installed the furnace in January and utilization was almost at about 80, 90% almost full capacity. We utilized until the end of the year and now ramp up approximately as per current estimates. We are looking this year to about let’s say in financial year 27 to maybe about three to four times what we have done in the last year.
Rohit
So is it fair to expect that like whatever ramp up in terms of let’s say 20 odd crore that you saw incrementally
Sayyam Pokarna
From last quarter, I mean same quarter last year to this year. That is all largely driven by alloys. Is that a fair assessment and on that basis.
Operator
Yes. Yes.
Sayyam Pokarna
Okay. I’m sure in this you have been talking about body two kinds of products, right? One is the virgin metal and then there’s one through scrap. So the virgin metal is lower margin and the scrap is a bit higher margin. So I mean where are we on both these products? And like how do you see FY27 on both these products? In the last quarter we did more of the virgin metal alloy sales orders. Were there more for that product and in this coming quarter, it’s coming year. It’s a mix of both. But there is a, there is a possibility, I mean this is sometimes a customer can give a large order for one type of business.
So that we will come to know in about maybe at the end of first quarter or maybe in the second quarter of FY27
Operator
And
Sayyam Pokarna
What the product mix is going to be. But right now in the last quarter it was mostly.
Operator
Currently
Sayyam Pokarna
Also we are. Okay
Operator
Where margin was slightly lower,
Sayyam Pokarna
Right? Slightly lower. Yeah, yeah.
Operator
Okay. Right, right. So. So from a relay point of view you’re saying H2 of this financial year in terms of all the capex etc. Is it all done
Sayyam Pokarna
Or like we need to finish the capex like you mentioned that the approval. Yeah,
Sharat Tataria
Sorry,
Sayyam Pokarna
It is ongoing. Capex is ongoing. Initial capex we have done for testing equipment and end of the line equipment. All that we have done, the production equipment, some of it is yet to be, yet to be purchased. So that is depending on automation and production agreement depends on what order we click first so that we will do accordingly.
Operator
Okay, okay. So
Sayyam Pokarna
Just to like you had earlier mentioned that like the last part of this product, I mean you have only used to have only one customer in and now you’re trying to broadband that and you’re not selling this product anyway. So like what is the overall size of business that you are looking at let’s say two, three years down the line once all the approvals come. Like what would be this business look like for you as a line of business? Let’s say three years out, let’s say FY29. See the average value for electricity meter can be about 250 to 300 rupees and depending on the customization that we do and also depend on the metal prices that could be the range.
So and but there are going to be multiple players in this business also right now most of it is imported but there is a PLI scheme also announced by the government and there are multiple players also setting up. So we may get a market share but the total market is quite big. The total addressable market is about for the entire 25025 crore meter replacement. You can say it can be about between 6,500 to 7,000 crores. So it can be, I mean yearly, on a yearly basis can be hundreds of crores on a good peak potential let’s say.
Operator
Yeah and just last two questions. So in terms of one is CapEx for the financial year
Sayyam Pokarna
27 and on a. Let’s say two, three year basis next couple of years. This is what is the Capex outlay you’re looking at? Because I saw that you’ve increased your borrowing limits. That was one second specifically for 27. So like can we see like 30, 40% kind of revenues are purely based on alloy scale up
Operator
And anything apart from that on relays or quantum can be added to it. Is that the right understanding?
Sayyam Pokarna
I would put the estimate between 20 to 30% maybe more also depending on the orders that we click in the alloy business and relay business. So it is possible that it can be a little higher also. But totally depends. Sometimes this, for example if you get a large order then it can jump. So I would put the estimate between 20 to 30% and then plus something maybe.
Sharat Tataria
Okay answer on the capex.
Sayyam Pokarna
On the Capex side we have for both the product for Alloy we have done around 15 crore, around 18 crore capex and for relay we have done around 5 to 6 crore capex. So further in this year we will. We are planning to do further Capex for relay alloy and also for the new plant that we are setting up the factory. So all this Capex is in line.
Rohit
So like what would be the quantum and like how are you looking to fund it? Because I saw that you have. Yeah,
Sayyam Pokarna
It could be between 40 to 50 crores. For PML itself.
Rohit
Another.
Sayyam Pokarna
Another 40 to 50 crores could be the plan in Quantum. Roughly. As we go along we are finalizing the numbers based on the business plan.
Rohit
But this 40 to 50 would be your share, right?
Sayyam Pokarna
For PNL business it could be 40 to 50 crores. And for Quantum business it could be another 40 to 50 crores.
Rohit
Now for the Quantum this is 40 to 50 would be your stake. I mean your contribution or this would be at a hundred percent level.
Sayyam Pokarna
Yes, we. Our contribution also we have to put in which is about $5 million. Roughly we will put in. We are planning to put that in about 18 months time. So depending on this year how much we do and another six months how much we do then we are yet to finalize.
Rohit
Okay. And this is all through internal approval, sir. Or will be taking some external. We will do
Sayyam Pokarna
A combination. Maybe debt and equity. Maybe we will do that we are yet to finalize. Okay. Okay. Got it sir. All the very best. Coming. Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Mishita from Sapphire Capital. Please go ahead.
Mishita
Yes, hello. So I just wanted a clarification on the Capex amount that you just said. So you said that 40 to 50 crore of capex on standalone basis in TML. And then another 50 crore is going to be our contribution in quantum, right?
Sayyam Pokarna
Yes. Out of this particular work from this around we will be spending to set up new factors.
Mishita
Okay. And this new factory is going to be for what purpose?
Sayyam Pokarna
We have around six plants here in around Mumbai. So we’ll be combining all six plants together at one place where we have purchased land on end of our.
Mishita
Okay. So I’m assuming the 24 is excluding the land land price. Right.
Sayyam Pokarna
Land we have already acquired.
Mishita
Okay. Okay. And my next question would be on the release project we mentioned that we will like start a project by H2S by 27. So what is the case value that we can expect from that project?
Sayyam Pokarna
What is the repeat
Mishita
Peak revenue that we can get from that release project? That will. That will be commercialized in H2S27.
Sayyam Pokarna
So that. I mean in this. In this finance. See in the current capacity that we are planning to set up we can expect Maybe in a fly 27. Maybe between 25 to 50 crore. Maybe something like this could be possible. But depending depends on how aggressive customer company orders we get from the customer. How fast we click the business.
Mishita
Understood. And this 25 to 50 crore is going to be at what utilization date
Sayyam Pokarna
We have. This will be. We are setting up. So this will be almost 100 utilization only. So we are ramping up. We are setting up the capacity based on what customer forecasting.
Mishita
Okay. Okay.
Sayyam Pokarna
It’s almost full capacity. We are going to set up based the capacity we are going to increase based on the customer need.
Mishita
Okay. Okay. So you mentioned that in FY27 we are also going to increase the capacity. So 34 we are going to use to increase alloys relays capacity. So that is also based on the customer requirement, right?
Sayyam Pokarna
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And based on customer requirement.
Mishita
Okay. Okay. Understood. And what if you can give some outlook on FY27 and consolidated basis on margin front and everything.
Sayyam Pokarna
When you want about you can consider maybe 20 to 30% depending on what orders we click. Margins at similar level only.
Mishita
So margin will be at the level of 15. 15. 16.
Sayyam Pokarna
Yeah, yeah. Roughly that level. 1570.
Mishita
Thank you so much.
Sayyam Pokarna
Thank you. Thank
Operator
You. Participants, you may press star and want to ask the question. Next question is from the line of from Sushil Finance. Please go ahead.
Sayyam Pokarna
Thank you for the opportunity. My first question. Sorry to interrupt. Can
Operator
You speak through the handset please?
Sayyam Pokarna
Yeah. Hello. Am I audible?
Operator
Yeah. Yes. Thank you.
Sayyam Pokarna
Thank you for the opportunity. And my first question is related to rare earth Magnet. As per presentation the company wants to set up a 5,000 ton plant for rare earth magnets. So by when will production commence and when can it scale up and what is the realization going on? Just a ballpark figure. This is a. See our. This is a long term plan to set up 5,000 ton capacity. We are currently starting with phase one and phase two. Phase one we already implemented which was assemblies, manufacturing of assemblies and sales.
Then we go to phase two which is block cutting onwards all operations. Phase two is currently under implementation. So. And that commercial sales will. We will mostly start by quarter four of 2027. So the long term plan is to do 5,000 tonnes. But every. Every step that we take will be based on what success we get in each implementation of each phase. I hope I answered your question.
Unidentified Participant
Yes, that
Sayyam Pokarna
Was really helpful. Thank you so much.
Unidentified Participant
And totality. In
Sayyam Pokarna
Totality 5000 tons. Depending on the sale price it can range from somewhere between let’s say two 2000 or 3000 crore to maybe 4000 crore. Something like that. 5000. 5000 tons. Okay.
Operator
So that
Sayyam Pokarna
Is the
Operator
Plan.
Sayyam Pokarna
Okay. And just related to this as per last phone call this can scale up to 3500 crores over a few years. So is this. Can you put some color on this? Sorry, as per last con call this is related to the previous one. This can scale up to 3500 crores over a few years. So can you put some color on this? That is a 5,000 tons. Our
Unidentified Participant
Right now what we
Sayyam Pokarna
Are planning is about it could. It could be about maybe 30, 31. Okay. But that depends again it depends on. On how the implementation in phase two goes. How the demand is from the market, how aggressively customers want to buy it, pricing, margins, everything put together. So this is our right now. This is the plan. And then it can change based on what the customer need is. Okay, thank you. And my next question is relating to debt level. So debt levels have gone up from 15 crores to 85 crores. Can you share some light on the purpose of the thing?
Sorry, debt level is. What do you say? The debt levels have gone up from 15 crores to 85 crores. Okay. You are maybe. Okay. We. We got five dollar of ecb in our. Hello.
Operator
So we lost the line for the participant. We move on to the next participant. Next question is from the line of Nain Agrawal from SIC Wealth Management. Please go ahead.
Sayyam Pokarna
Hello. Hi sir. Congratulations on the great setup number. I just wanted to understand. Like in the last con call you mentioned that Chinese restrictions might ease after the Q3 or January, February. So has there been any easement from the raw materials
Operator
Perspective?
Sayyam Pokarna
No, we did not get any approval for our products that we are that we were importing. So there has been no sale in the last year. But we see that customers are now moving away from the heavy rare earth to light rare earth options that we are seeing a lot of customers doing that. So that will probably help in future. So the assembly turnover which we were expecting of around 5 to 10 crores. Is there any update on that? You’re talking about FY26, FY27. FY27. We will because now we are implementing phase two.
So that will happen by July to November sometime and then after that December onwards sales should start that we are estimating maybe about 10 crore, 15 crore, something like that may happen in the in quarter four. All right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vivek Said individual investor. Please go ahead.
Sayyam Pokarna
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. One question regarding the revenue guidance and the breakup under the various head studies of quantum magnetics Alloy Division and the existing business. What can we foresee in financial year 28, 29 and 30. Eight will depend that guidance. We can give it in 20. I mean in the coming year we are expecting a large sales of Alloy Division and some some start of the relay division also in second half. So depending on that performance and the capacity utilization we will make plans how aggressive we want to be in FY27 28 and 28 29.
But currently the indication is good and we feel that it can scale up quite well. I can’t comment exactly on the numbers and the last
Operator
Two years we’ve been expecting the commercialization and ramping up to happen but it’s been a.
Sayyam Pokarna
Actually a very poor issue. I would say. Yeah, we were expecting it to implement much earlier. We were expecting the relay to start much earlier. That did not happen. So it has been delayed to that extent. Yes. Okay. So one more question. What are, what is the competition that you are seeing in the magnetic as well as the alloy division in the liquid space in India? Hello division. There are a few companies and, but the companies have different capacities. So we are, we are targeting getting a certain size smaller capacities also we are targeting so but we are also doing some import substitution.
So we are picking, we are choosing our markets that way. We do
Operator
Not have any, any metric to you know compare where the company would be in next probably two or three years. What about the magnetic
Sayyam Pokarna
Division? What is the competition that you have no, sorry, can you repeat that? What is the competition that we have in the magnetic division? Real estate, space. Magnetic. Magnetic division. You. You mean to say the rare earth? Yes, yes. Quantum magnetic. Quantum magnetics. There are multiple companies who are planning to set up and they are all. They are all applying. Some of them are applying for pli. There are big players also. So that is. That competition is yet to come. But we understand that.
Have we applied for it? No, we have not applied till now. We are looking at our options. There are. We expect about five, six companies. Maybe they will set up. Okay then. In the opening thing we said that the EV demand has been slow. So I was just checking. Yes, the US there’s been a slowdown, but the Europe market has rebounded in the last financial year as well as the smart meter business in India. I
Operator
Went through the results of Venus and all. They are showing growth. So why is our business not showing up, growing accordingly? In line
Sayyam Pokarna
For the EV business, Our supply is mainly to European companies and American companies. We understand that the major growth is being taken up by Chinese companies for EVs. So we did not experience orders for our products that we are selling currently to those platforms. However, some of those platforms are now getting implemented in India also for ev. So in future it may. It may increase. But in totality I feel that the Chinese EVs are far more. They are coming in far more aggressively so that we do not have any business for the Chinese movie.
And are we not planning to do any business with these Chinese
Operator
In future?
Sayyam Pokarna
There are some Chinese companies who have Indian collaborations for that. We are planning to make some products and we are already developing some products but to sell in China. We have not been able to sell anything in China yet.
Unidentified Participant
Thank
Sayyam Pokarna
You.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Meer Thakkar from Prithvi Fenmar. Please go ahead.
Sayyam Pokarna
Thank you so much for the opportunity. I just wanted to know the reason behind the huge jump in the debt figure. The debt numbers are consolidated on a consolidated basis. The major reason is that we took in ECB of $5 million.
Operator
That
Sayyam Pokarna
Is the main, main item.
Operator
Okay.
Sharat Tataria
And the other thing was like, I’m fairly new to the company and I just wanted to like the understanding of the business. And in that sense, I tried to reach out to the company in the first week of March for an offline meeting. So would it be possible for you to arrange an offline meeting with us?
Operator
Because I have been trying to reach and nobody.
Sayyam Pokarna
Yeah, please send an email. We will, we will respond.
Operator
Yeah, I’ve already sent mail in March. I’ll send again. So just respond.
Sayyam Pokarna
Yeah. Okay.
Operator
Yes. Thank you.
Sayyam Pokarna
That’s it. From.
Operator
Thank you. Next follow up question is from Land of Mashita from Sapphire Capital Partners. Please go ahead.
Mishita
Thank you for the comment. So I just wanted to understand like is it possible for us to ramp up to 100% realization in H2 itself? Like we’ll start commercial for relay in H2. And you mentioned that we reach 100 utilization of in that period of time. So is that possible? And if so, what is the group driver for such fast ramp up?
Sayyam Pokarna
We are setting up the relay plant phase wise. Our first investment is going to be for 5 million capacity. And then we will increase it to 10 million capacity depending on which orders we get. The relays are customized relays. Each relay design, the basic relay remains the same. But there is customization for each customer. So accordingly we have to set up the capacity. So as we we our pilots get built and those are successfully tested in the customer, then the ramp up will happen. And accordingly we will increase the capacity.
Mishita
Right? But you mentioned like from the commercial project. Like from the plant capacity will commercialize in H2. You mentioned that we’ll be able to do revenue of 25 to 50 cr crores. And that is at 100 utilization. So I just wanted to understand that this is the phase. And so from 5 million capacity we can do revenue of 50 crores. And that will be able to do in H2, right?
Sayyam Pokarna
Yeah. That is our. That is our judgment of sales that we will do after September. That is the judgment today. It can change based on how early on how early the customer adopts and whether they want to ramp up faster or slower. That may change. So that is our judgment today from the indication that we have from the customer.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you participants. You May Press Star N1 to ask a question. A reminder to all the participants. You May Press Star N1
Operator
To
Unidentified Participant
Ask a question.
Operator
As there are no further questions, I’ll now hand the conference over to the management. Closing comments.
Sayyam Pokarna
Thank you very much for all for participation and your support. Thank you.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you very much on behalf of Permanent Magnets limited. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your thank you.