EPL Limited (NSE: EPL) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Feb. 11, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Anand Kripalu — Managing Director
Deepak Goyal — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Pratik Tholiya — Analyst
Sanjesh Jain — Analyst
Sameer Gupta — Analyst
Akshat Bairathi — Analyst
Vinamra Hirawat — Analyst
Vedant Bhasin — Analyst
Siddharth Purohit — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to EPL Limited Q3 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Systematix Shares and Stocks. [Operator Instructions]
I now hand the conference over to Mr Pratik Tholiya from Systematix and Stocks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Pratik Tholiya — Analyst
Thanks, Nirav. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of Systematics, I would like to welcome all the participants who have logged into this conference call of EPL Limited to discuss the 3rd-quarter and nine months ending FY ’25. Today, we have with us from the management team, Mr Anand, MD and Global CEO; Mr Deepak Goyal, CFO; Mr Rao, President, MSR Region; and Mr Onkar Gangulde, Head Legal Company Secretary and Compliance Officer. At the outset, I’d like to thank the management for giving us the opportunity to host this conference call.
I would like to now invite Mr Anand to begin the proceedings with his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Anand Kripalu — Managing Director
Thank you very much, Pritik, and hello, everybody, and thank you for joining us for EPL Q3 FY ’25 earnings call. We have delivered another solid quarter, culminating in 10 consecutive quarters of margin expansion, coupled with continuous double-digit EBITDA growth. The strong turnaround in Europe and Americas is now evident and our B&C business, in-line with our strategy has delivered double-digit growth. Importantly, PAT grew very strongly and ROCE has improved even further. EBITDA grew by 12.4%. EBITDA margin reached 20.3%, delivering an improvement of 152 basis-points year-on-year. Our adjusted PAT, excluding base year one-offs grew by a solid 34% versus the prior year. We delivered an ROCE of 16.9%, which expanded by 321 basis-points year-on-year. Revenue growth was a modest 4%, driven by strong performance in Europe and Americas, partially offset by MSR and EAP DAP.
Specifically, Europe and Americas grew by 8.7% and 7.3% respectively, reflecting the efficacy of our growth strategies and the strong pipeline in the regions. MSR grew by 1%, impacted by demand slowdown in India and currency devaluation impact in Egypt. In India, we believe the market softness is short-term in nature. EAP revenue declined by 1% due to the continued effect of macros in China. However, we continue to make strong overall progress in the B&C sector where we experienced double-digit growth year-over-year at 10.3%. The non-oral care segment now accounts for 48.7% of our total revenue. In summary, the growth in EBITDA and PAT, coupled with strong cash-flow generation helped reduce our net-debt to EBITDA ratio to 0.76 and the ROCE further improved to 16.9%. Sustainability remains at the heart of our strategy and we are pleased with the progress we’ve made so-far. Today, 31% of our portfolio consists of sustainable tubes and we’re actively collaborating with customers to provide innovative solutions that align with their own sustainability goals.
Our commitment to responsible practices has been consistently recognized, including a green rating for the third consecutive year under the Ellen Foundation’s Plastic Circular Economy Goals. Innovation continues to be a key driver of our success as demonstrated by our recent recognition with two prestigious IFCA awards for our advanced tube solutions. Looking ahead, we remain focused on achieving EcoVadis Platinum, further strengthening our position as a leader in sustainability and innovation. As we look to the future, we believe we are well-positioned to continue our journey towards delivering double-digit revenue growth and strong operating margins. Specifically, in addition to our ongoing strategic focus areas, we are taking further initiatives to mitigate the soft macro impact in India and China. In relation to this, I’m very happy to share that we have approved a greenfield expansion in Thailand. Southeast Asia is a very promising Cubes market and we cater to parts of this market today through exports from China. We know this market well and already have an established customer-base, along with a strong pipeline.
Our significant success in Brazil gives us huge confidence to replicate that experience. We have committed an initial — an initial investment for this beauty and cosmetics focused facility replete with tubing, printing, et-cetera and it will start production in H2 FY ’26. Additionally, we have aggressively started capturing export opportunities from India and China. We have added new business development headcount for exports and have started building new pipelines there. Further, we have made positive progress on a few large accounts in India, which hold significant potential and should materialize in the next few quarters. At the same time, we are pursuing our other priorities even harder. First, Brazil, I’m pleased to share that Brazil continues to perform very well. We see new product orders from our newly-acquired customers, especially in beauty and cosmetics as well as NeoSteam. We have initiated capacity expansion in Brazil to cater to better-than-expected beauty and cosmetics demand and this new capacity will go online by Q1 FY ’26.
Capacity expansion in this greenfield location in less than two years post-commercialization speaks volumes about our confidence in this market. This also gives the confidence to succeed in new geographies. As far as Personal Care and beyond is concerned, we have delivered double-digit growth in beauty and cosmetics in Q3 FY ’25, led by robust performance in EAP and the Americas regions. We have a robust B&C pipeline anchored by tubes and superior printing capabilities. We are getting new customer contracts across geographies and feel confident as we build our performance in this important category even further. On sustainability, we continue to see strong conversion towards sustainable tubes and our YCD mix reached 31% compared to 21% in FY ’24. We sustain — we see sustainable tubes as a way to gain wallet share over the medium-term and the current momentum in sustainable tubes is strongly taking us in that direction.
Finally, on margins, our margins, as you would agree, are in a strong position as demonstrated by our consistent progress over the past many, many quarters. We have seen continued margin expansion in Europe and Americas, driven by specific restructuring and cost optimization initiatives. We feel optimistic about sustaining and improving these margins even further. There is a comprehensive plan to bring back margins in India and we have initiated actions to make sure that this happens. Hence, we feel very confident of delivering continued EBITDA growth ahead of revenue growth. In addition, our strategy of controlling capex and interest costs positions us well for consistent strong growth in PAT as well as improvements in ROCE. Finally, as we look-ahead, we remain focused on maneuvering the short-term market softness that we’ve been experiencing and accelerating our top-line to deliver double-digit growth with continued margin improvement.
With those opening remarks, I would now like to open up the line for questions.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We’ll now begin with the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press RN1 on the touchton telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press R&2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Participants, you may press R&1 to ask a question. The first question is from the line of Sanjesh Jain from ICICI Securities. Please go-ahead.
Sanjesh Jain
Yeah, good evening, sir. Thanks for taking my question. In fact, few questions. First is on the India. I think in the previous earnings call, we mentioned that the slowness in the India revenue was temporary and we were taking price and that should boost the Q3 revenue. I think things have gone downways post that call because the revenue growth has been just 1%, which implies there has been a volume decline on a Y-o-Y basis. How does the Q4 look like now we are already a month past into that? Number two, India EBITDA margin sequentially has declined and you have mentioned that you had to completely pass-on the raw-material prices. Can you break it what is the margin foregone in this quarter because of a timing mismatch in the raw-material price increase and our price increase to the customer. That is my first question.
Anand Kripalu
Yeah. So I’ll deal with the volume and on the India margin, you know what exactly happened, but more importantly, what we are going to do to improve it, I’m going to just ask Deepak to help me out there. Now, first of all, I just want to say that we have had volume growth in India and you know we don’t report volume for good reason. We have had volume growth in India and YTD, our volume growth in India is about 5%, okay. So I just want to articulate and make sure that we understand that there is volume growth momentum as far as the marketplace is concerned. Now some quarters you sell a bit more, some quarters you sell a bit less. And if you were to compare that with customer performance, there is a lead-lag factor that actually happens. So we are not actually concerned that there is a significant slowdown, the revenue, of course, I agree with you is less than what we would have desired. And the impact of that revenue is partly the market where there is some slowdown without a doubt, okay. And also the mix that has actually not been favorable this particular quarter, okay. So I just want to say that I can’t tell you what’s going to happen in Q4, but I don’t think the numbers of revenue actually reflect how we feel. We feel a lot better because there is underlying momentum in the business, okay?
So let me just share — ask Deepak to share a bit about margin and what’s happened there.
Deepak Goyal
Yeah. Thanks, Anand. So India margins, EBITDA at about 17% is lower than our expectations. We are not happy with it. The reasons for the lower EBITDA is slow revenue growth, which obviously puts a lot of pressure on the fixed-cost leverage.
Sanjesh Jain
Correct.
Deepak Goyal
The gross margins are marginally lower, driven by the continued pricing impact and the mix that Anandhi spoke about. And also we shared in earlier calls that we have invested in personnel cost in Amesa, especially in India in functions like sales. And those costs we have not been left — have not been able to leverage because of the slower revenue growth. The culmination of this is reflecting in the EBITDA numbers, which is at 17%. However, we have taken very concrete actions to show these margins up and we are confident of bringing these back by about 150 basis-points over next few quarters. And those actions have already been implemented in the business.
Sanjesh Jain
I got it. But, in the presentation, we have mentioned that the beauty and personal care has grown by double-digits, I think more in India and EAP region. I thought that mix did have improved.
Operator
Can you speak little louder please?
Sanjesh Jain
Can you hear me now?
Operator
Little bit.
Sanjesh Jain
Okay. Now, is it fine?
Operator
Yes, go-ahead.
Sanjesh Jain
Okay. Anand, you mentioned in your opening remarks that we have seen double-digit growth in the personal care in these regions, which is America. Then how has the mix deteriorated over? Can you can elaborate on that?
Anand Kripalu
No, I said and cosmetics have grown globally double-digit, right? I did not say specifically that it’s grown double-digit in MSR, okay. So we have — so we have had higher-growth in the other regions and less growth on beauty and cosmetics clearly in MSR. But what I want to tell you is this that on beauty and cosmetics specifically, you, you will see renewed momentum, particularly in India, right, in the subsequent quarters, right? And we can see that beginning to actually play-out now.
Sanjesh Jain
Fair enough, fair enough. My second question is on the Thailand greenfield expansion. Why there is requirement now because geographically, China is quite close. What compels us in terms of putting the capacity in Thailand and what advantage that gives. And number two, what is the quantum of CapEx are we looking to invest in this plan.
Anand Kripalu
So I’m not in a position to tell you the quantum of capex just now, right, and we will disclose that at a subsequent date. However, I’ll give you the logic of why we are doing this. So we are already exporting a fair amount of cubes, largely oral care from China to Thailand. Now as we have put business development resources on-the-ground in Thailand, you know what we have seen in terms of our pipeline is a very large number of beauty and cosmetics customers where typically the MOQs, the lead-time, the pace —
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, please stay connected. The line for the management dropped. Participants please stay connected while we rejoin the management back to the call ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your patience with the line for the management reconnected. Sir, you may go-ahead. Sanjesh, if you can just guide where he dropped?
Anand Kripalu
No, I’m just speaking about Thailand started.
Sanjesh Jain
Correct. Yeah.
Anand Kripalu
So first of all, I’m not in a position to disclose the specific capex investment that we’re putting into Thailand. But what I do want to say is that we have already built a reasonable business in Thailand, predominantly oral care exporting — exporting from China. As we put two business development people on-the-ground in Thailand to sense out and develop that market. What we have realized is that Thailand is a very evolved beauty and cosmetics market. And when we look at the pipeline that these two business development managers have put together, we find that there is a huge list of beauty and cosmetics customers, but they typically have smaller MOQs, lower lead times and higher rates of change and innovation. Now that kind of business is not possible for us to do from outside the country. We believe that the high ASP margin-accretive opportunity is there with beauty and cosmetics.
And that’s why we are setting up a focus beauty and cosmetics unit at least to start with in Thailand. Once we are on-the-ground there, then we will see whether we want to localize whatever is exported from China and so on and so forth. But that’s plan B, that’s not the plan for now. But Thailand is a large market of about 1.5 billion tubes, right, based on our last assessment. There’s one large tube supplier on-the-ground in Thailand and we believe we have a huge opportunity to get a significant wallet share in that market today. What we have today is a small part, right, of that wallet share. So that is our thinking and given our confidence from Brazil, I mean, we really feel we can have a bite of this cherry, which is silent.
Deepak Goyal
And I would also add that there are markets of Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, right, which are nearby and having a facility in Thailand also allows us to cater to those markets, especially in the BNC category that we are not able to do from China today. So it’s a very large exciting market and we believe we have a great opportunity to build share there.
Sanjesh Jain
That’s pretty clear. My last question is on the. That geography was doing decent. What’s transpired there? It appears to be declining now.
Anand Kripalu
Yeah so you know there have been macro challenges in China okay which have been there for probably the last couple of quarters, okay? Now, how do I see China evolving? See, first and foremost, our — we don’t export from China to markets that could get impacted by a Trump tax. We do some exports, like I said in Thailand and so on in Southeast Asia, in ASEAN and the rest of our business is actually now domestic demand. So what we are doing is we are staying focused on domestic demand and going to further accelerate our efforts behind beauty and cosmetics. Specifically, we have also put in-place earlier we used to only focus on converting beauty and cosmetics from extruded tubes to laminated tubes. But now we have also put in an extruded facility in our China market to go head-on and gain share of the extruded tube market and we’ve already tasted some initial success, right? And we are thinking of even expanding this capability and facility further. So we are going to keep pushing beauty and cosmetics. Oral will probably go at a very modest rate within China.
So beauty and cosmetics has to be the mainstay of our growth strategy. But through, through the setting up of Thailand, through more aggressive exports into ASEAN countries that Deepak said, whether it’s Malaysia or Indonesia, we are committed to bringing back solid growth to EAP and working around the — at least the short to medium-term softness that may exist in China. Our own team’s reading though is that the domestic market in China is not very soft. It is the export-driven companies and employment of people who are export-driven companies that is more impacted than a company like ours. So that is our thinking. And basically, we can’t do anything about the macros. I think what you have to just recognize is that everything around those macros that we are doing to make sure we mitigate any impact of those macros.
Sanjesh Jain
Very clear. Very clear. Thanks, Anand. Thanks, Deepak for all those answers and best of luck in the coming quarters. Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sameer Gupta from India Infoline. Please go-ahead.
Sameer Gupta
Hi, hi, everyone, and thanks for taking my question. Firstly, just a continuation of the previous participant. So we’ve seen a slowdown in revenue growth across geographies, more so in MSI and EAP, but even Americas and Europe has seen a slow — decent slowdown from the last quarter. So — and particularly in MSI, I remember that you had mentioned there was negative pricing till last quarter, which was to be anniversarized this in this quarter. So the — considering that the slowdown is even more, now my question is that if particularly China and India are affected by a soft macro, these are not things that just turn-around in a couple of quarters. So what is your outlook? I mean, if double-digit revenue growth is the guidance by when do you think you can get back on-track to deliver those?
Anand Kripalu
Yeah. So I mean, you’re absolutely right. The macros may be short-term, medium-term, but more importantly, there is very little we can do about it. What we can do something about is everything around those macros, right, to make sure we mitigate the impact of the macros. So first of all, let me just focus on India. China, I spoke about the various things we are doing, right, which we believe will get us back to a high-quality level of growth. As far as India is concerned, our Duty and cosmetics performance thus far has been soft. But I’m telling you that looking ahead, the performance is going to be much stronger and we are already seeing signs of that happening. When we call ourselves MSR region, there are markets outside of India and we are significantly increasing the aggressiveness behind getting business outside of India, which is the export market, okay.
And thirdly, there are some big customers with whom we have made actually significant progress, right, which could unlock significant market opportunity. Now these are the things we are doing really to make sure that we beef up whatever a growth we have to compensate for the macros, right? And of course, we’ve already spoken about what we are doing on the margin side. So you know, absolutely, when we look at our numbers, when we look at our outlook, right, for, let’s say, FY ’26 and beyond, we are absolutely aiming for double-digit growth in this business. Okay. And we are building multiple levers in terms of plan to get there. Now if the macros also turn-around, well, I think that will be magic.
Sameer Gupta
Got it, sir. This is very clear. Second question, sir, on Thailand. I know you do not want to disclose capex and revenue run-rate details at this point, but just trying to understand the thought process. Typically, we do greenfield where there are committed volumes and a large anchor customer, which was our experience in Brazil. This time in Thailand, if it’s going to be for beauty and cosmetics with multiple number of players, smaller bat sizes, not committed type of volumes. Also pricing I remember in non-oral care is not contracted. So how do you mitigate these risks? So let’s say, volumes drop or customers back-out? What happens then?
Anand Kripalu
So you’re absolutely right. Historically, we have always gone in the back of a customer commitment, but that by definition has been oral care. And therefore, we have been an oral company to start within those markets. In Thailand, what we are planning to do, and that’s why I’m just explaining the concept is, we have a significant oral volume. We’re going to keep exporting that from China for now. But what we are doing is to set-up a facility, repeat with printing, tubing, etc to give us local presence and therefore agility of a very different order.
Our pipeline is very strong and I think the moment we set-up shop, we are very confident that we are going to get significant B&C volume from the start, okay. But what we are doing is therefore, we are not setting up a facility like we did in Brazil, right? We’re setting up something smaller, but we’ll have all the modular capabilities that we have had in Brazil, right? So this is our approach to also unlock duty and cosmetics first rather than go in as an oral company.
Deepak Goyal
And got — and Sameer, just to kind of add, we now have had our sales salespeople on-the-ground in Thailand for more than a year. And in this past year, we have developed a very strong pipeline on-the-ground already where multiple — many of those orders are in finalization stage. So we feel very confident of getting that volume given the response that we have seen, right? And hence it would be an exciting opportunity to capture.
Sameer Gupta
So just a follow-up here, what would be the nature of these customers? I mean, will there be contracted customers and committed volumes even, let’s say for a two-year, three-year period or it will be as you go, you will get volumes, etc.
Deepak Goyal
These are so these are beauty and largely beauty and cosmetics players with whom we will have contracts may not be driven by the quantity-led contacts but there would be agreement, which will say that EPL is a supplier to these players. Many of these products are long-term or long development kind of product in nature and hence continuance of supply is kind of very-high probability. Also, Thailand is a large skincare market and the entire Southeast Asia that this facility can cater to is a very strong beauty and cosmetics kind of play. And hence our ability to capture to all of that market and build this — build this geography is very-high.
Sameer Gupta
Got it. Last final question, if I may squeeze in and this is more of a bookkeeping one. The tax-rate this quarter is low I understand base quarter had some one-off, but you haven’t called out anything this quarter. So just trying to understand any guidance you can give for FY ’25 and beyond, especially for tax rates. We kind of struggle in modeling this.
Deepak Goyal
Yeah. So Sameer, this quarter we have had the benefit in China. In China we get an exempted, not exempted but a concessional tax-rate due to-high technology — being a high-technology company. That concession for year 2024 onwards was due for renewal. That renewal came in December and hence, earlier months when we provided for 25%, we took that reversal in this quarter. Large part of this concession or the reversal belongs to this financial year itself and hence, it’s not a one-off in nature or exceptional item in nature. However, this quarter, we have had the benefit. For a steady-state tax-rate, we should look at YTD. YTDR tax-rate ETR is about 16.9%, which is pretty much, let’s say, in-line with last year, which was about 18%. There is a country mix benefit which is coming in. And long-term, I think our tax-rate guidance has always been between 20% to 22% and that should remain.
Sameer Gupta
Got it. This is very, very helpful. Thanks, Deepak. Thanks, Anand. I’ll come back-in the queue for any follow-ups.
Anand Kripalu
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Participants, you press R&1 to ask a question. Next question is from the line of Aksha from RSPN Ventures. Please go-ahead.
Akshat Bairathi
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. So, sir, my question firstly is on the gross margins. So this quarter our EBITDA margins are broadly driven by 200 bps improvement in our gross margins. So do we see this sustaining going-forward? And second question will be on the Brazil and Egypt currency depreciation this quarter. So they have seen a sharp depreciation in Brazil and Egypt. So how much will be the impact of that in the revenue this quarter? Thank you.
Deepak Goyal
Yeah. So first talking about the GC. GC is driven by, first of all, there is a mix improvement. Second, there is also positive geography benefit. We have seen Europe and Americas results improve. These geographies deliver strong gross margin. And with that mix improving, our overall gross margins have improved. We look at our EBITDA performance as a full P&L. And now I’m coming to the second part of your question, do we see it sustaining. So on the EBITDA margin, we are confident of keep improving our EBITDA margins and delivering growth ahead of revenue because there are multiple initiatives which are still under play. The Europe and America initiatives that we have taken are still being played out and hence there is little — some juice there.
On-top of that, AMESA margins, as I mentioned earlier, are not up to the mark and we have an opportunity to improve there further. So with the combination of that, we are confident that EBITDA margins will keep the second point is on Brazil and ForEx. So we have seen a ForEx loss in this quarter, primarily driven by Brazil and Egypt. The currencies have been volatile, but see the overall on a full-year basis, I think one benefit with EPL is that we deal in some 10 currencies and we cover most of the countries from East to the West. So we are where we have lot of revenue in Chinese Yuan we in Europe and Middle-East, we have Egyptian pound and polish, euro. On the western side, we have got dollars and Mexican peso, Brazilian gas, etc. What it does is that it gives us our natural coverage whenever there will currencies that we keep devaluing and then appreciating.
But an overall basis, currency generally gets get offset on a full-year basis. That’s how we see this playing. Just for context, in this quarter, Q4 so-far Brazilian gas has again improved and Egyptian pound has also improved. So this is not something we see in a — moving in a one direction.
Akshat Bairathi
Got it. Got it, sir. That was helpful. And just one last question from my side. So I understand you cannot guide on the capex number for Thailand, but can you do that for Brazil brownfield capex.
Deepak Goyal
See Brazil, I think important point rather than the quantum of the investment, I think the important point is that we have already within two years of our commercialization, we have decided to go for a capital expansion, right? And that is a very, very positive movement. We have seen a strong demand for buty and cosmetics in that geography. And this capex is now needed much earlier than we anticipated. That positivity, I think we should capture. The amount of investment we should be able to confirm in subsequently.
Anand Kripalu
And this expansion is purely for beauty and cosmetics, right, which is going to give us higher ASPs and be far better from a P&L standpoint as well.
Akshat Bairathi
Got it, sir. Thank you so much. All the best. Thank you.
Anand Kripalu
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vinamra Hirawat from JM Financial. Please go-ahead.
Vinamra Hirawat
Hi, sir. Am I audible?
Anand Kripalu
Yeah.
Vinamra Hirawat
So sir, my question was regarding the Trump tariffs. For your US customers, could we have a breakdown of where the tubes originate from in terms of country of manufacturing? Which countries are the largest exporter of the tubes to the US market because this would help us assess the potential supply-chain risks if tariffs were imposed on specific countries.
Anand Kripalu
So actually, we are not too worried about the Trump tax. We don’t first of all, export any tubes to the US. We make all the tubes that we sell-in the US in the US. The only thing we export are laminates. Now we make laminates in India and China. Earlier we used to export from China to the US and then the Trump tax came and we then moved all the supply of laminate from India right to the US so today it all goes from India and everything else we manufacture on-the-ground in the US, okay. We have a manufacturing plant in Mexico that caters essentially to the Mexican market as well, okay. So you know, I mean, we don’t know what we don’t know. We don’t know what he might do against India, right? We’ll have to just wait-and-see for any adverse announcements in that area. But for now, I don’t think we’re losing sleep over that.
Deepak Goyal
And also there could be some benefit coming our way if there are large duties imposed on China. China today as a country exports lot of excluded tube to US and if duties are imposed, then some of that demand actually can be fulfilled from India. We have extruded facility in India and then we could capture that demand. So we are watching this space and if there are any opportunities, we will go and capture.
Anand Kripalu
I think that’s a good point. We might actually benefit from the Trump tax given our geographic flexibility.
Operator
Thank you, sir. Thank you. Participants, you may press star in one to ask a question. Next question is from the line of Vedant Bhasin from Minerva Asset Management. Please go-ahead.
Vedant Bhasin
Hi, sir, am I audible?
Anand Kripalu
Yeah.
Vedant Bhasin
Yes. So my question is more of a qualitative one. I just wanted to understand for two specific geographies, Brazil and Europe, Americas, but Brazil is more focused. I’m just trying to understand how we’re able to grow at maybe double-digits in an industry that I don’t think grows more than mid-single digits. So I want to understand what exactly our strategies are over here, is it pricing, is it higher ASPs and how sustainable is this really?
Anand Kripalu
And you want to — you want me to explain specifically Brazil and Europe, right?
Vedant Bhasin
Correct.
Anand Kripalu
Okay. So first, let me take Europe. Now Europe, we’ve been present for a long-time, but we have been a single-digit market-share player in Europe, okay? And Europe is the biggest beauty and cosmetics region in the world. If I’m honest, we have been fraught with internal challenges in Europe for many, many years. We were manufacturing too much in Germany, the costs were too high and we had just a spate of internal challenges because of which I think honestly, we were too internally focused on fixing the problems rather than being externally focused to gain share. In the last few quarters, ever since we have made some structural and people interventions in Europe. I think that thing has started transforming. And actually while we don’t share volume numbers, we have been, I would say, pleasantly surprised with the amount of volumes that we’ve been getting in Europe. Okay. What we believe is that Europe is going to grow very strongly just because now we have fixed our ability to service our cost model in Europe and put the right people in-place to get that business and the first signs of that are already visible, okay.
So Europe is about gaining share of the huge headroom that exists, which we could not harness before. You know, Brazil, we have just entered and we are still a very small player in Brazil again. We have been commercially active in Brazil for under two years, actually 1.5 years to be, okay. And you know, while in oral care, we went on the back of a contract customer, we have had orders from other customers. But what we’ve been really pleasantly surprised about is what’s happening on beauty and cosmetics and most of that is incidentally. We’ve been really surprised by the amount of orders and the pipeline that we’re getting there. So again in Brazil, we’ve started recently and it’s a massive market in itself and we are probably just still a single-digit player in that market, right, or low double-digit player in that market.
So it’s again headroom for growth. So I think when we have low shares, so if you looked at India where we have very-high shares, the category growth is far more critical to our growth strategy, right? And we have to do different things to grow if the category is not supportive of growth. But in Europe and Brazil, it is really about being competitive. It is not about discounting on price. I want to make it clear, but it’s about innovation, service and quality that delight the customers who own that market compared to the other suppliers who are there, right? And like I said, in both these cases, we’ve tasted blood, right, over the last few quarters, over the last year or so. So I actually am very confident about our ability to grow, well, double-digit time will tell, but grow very strongly in both these markets.
Vedant Bhasin
All right. Understood. Thank you. That’s helpful. And my second question is just a quantitative question on if you can just tell me what our margins are on a general blended level because I know you don’t give volumes or because there’s a lot of different types of products. But if you can tell me what the margins are on oral versus beauty, that would be helpful the models.
Anand Kripalu
So you are asking oral versus beauty margins. What are the margins?
Deepak Goyal
On beauty and cosmetics, on a per tube basis, the margins are significantly higher than poorly. That is driven by the higher selling price because the selling price of beauty and cosmetics is significantly higher than oral care tube. On the percentage basis, however, they are very similar, right? Beauty and cosmetics, in some markets, beauty and cosmetics, depending upon the kind of embellishment which is there on the tube is slightly higher in other markets slightly lower, but on and whole, they are very, very similar. However, at the EBITDA level and Anand, thanks for reminding, the beauty and cosmetics are significantly better because the fixed-cost allocation, when you are selling a tube, you’re selling a tube, right? So the fixed-cost allocation that happens on butane cosmetic tubes as a percentage are lower with the benefit of higher revenue and hence EBITDA that the cosmetic tubes make us better.
Vedant Bhasin
Understood. All right. Thank you so much for taking time. Got it all. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you very much. A reminder to all the participants, you may press R&1 to ask a question. Next question is from the line of Siddharth Purohit from InvesQ Investment Advisors. Please go-ahead.
Siddharth Purohit
Yeah. Hi, sir. So a lot of my question has been answered. Just one clarification. When you talk about double-digit growth, you mean to say in terms of volume because or it’s a mix of pricing and volume that you are looking at.
Anand Kripalu
Yeah, it is revenue growth and therefore, it has — volume has mix because we have clearly said that B&C will grow faster than oral care. So there’s mix, right? And there is some pricing depending on how commodities move, okay? So it has all three components in our double-digit growth guidance, which is a revenue growth guidance.
Siddharth Purohit
Fine. And sir, given the slowdown in this quarter and almost half of the quarter has gone now. So in the coming quarter also, we might see further slowdown given the technoglobal environment, how is it shaping up?
Anand Kripalu
I don’t expect so, but I don’t know what I don’t know, but I don’t expect so, right? I expect things to only get better this quarter and beyond. But you know, I, I mean, who the hell knows what’s going to happen in March, right? So that’s the problem, right? There’s — that uncertainty is there, but honestly, I feel it will be better.
Siddharth Purohit
Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Anand Kripalu
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, you may press R&1 to ask a question. A reminder to all the participants, you may press one to ask a question. As there are no further questions, I’ll now hand the conference over to Mr Pratik Tolia for closing comments.
Pratik Tholiya
Yeah. Thanks, Nirav. Once again, on behalf of Systematix, I’d like to thank all the participants who have logged into this call. Thanks to the management for giving us the opportunity and answering all the questions very candidly. Sir, would you like to make any closing comments?
Anand Kripalu
No, I just want to thank everyone for their continued interest in our company.
Pratik Tholiya
Great. Thank you so much, sir.
Anand Kripalu
Thank you everyone. Bye-bye.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks]