Wpil Ltd (NSE: WPIL) Q2 2025 Earnings Call dated Oct. 30, 2024
Corporate Participants:
Prakash Agarwal — Managing Director & Promoter
Analysts:
Anuj Sonpal — Analyst
Siddhartha Vemuri — Analyst
Deepak Purswani — Analyst
Nikunj Doshi — Analyst
Nirav Sheth — Analyst
Namish Gupta — Analyst
Samir Palod — Analyst
Vinay Nadkarni — Analyst
Tej Patel — Analyst
Raman KV — Analyst
Ankit — Analyst
Saket Kapoor — Analyst
Vineeth Lambu — Analyst
Jainish Shah — Analyst
Ravi Anand — Analyst
Aditya Ravindran — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q2 and H1 FY ’25 Conference Call of WPIL Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. And there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. [Operator Instructions]
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anuj Sonpal from Valorem Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Anuj Sonpal — Analyst
Thank you. Good evening, everyone. My name is Anuj Sonpal from Valorem Advisors. We represent Investor Relations for WPIL limited. On behalf of the company, I would like to thank you all for participating in the company’s earnings call for the second quarter and first half of financial year 2025.
Before we begin, let me mention a short cautionary statement. Some of the statements made in today’s earnings call may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ from those anticipated. Such statements are based on management’s belief as well as assumptions made by, and information currently available to the management. Audiences are cautioned not to place any undue reliance on these forward-looking statements in making any investment decisions. The purpose of today’s earnings call is probably to educate and bring awareness about the company’s fundamental business and financial quarter under review.
Let me now introduce you to the management participating with us in today’s earnings call and hand it over to them for opening remarks. We firstly have with us Mr. Prakash Agarwal, Managing Director and Promoter; and Mr. K.K. Ganeriwala, Executive Director.
Without any further delay, I request Mr. Prakash Agarwal to start with his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Prakash Agarwal — Managing Director & Promoter
Thank you, Anuj, and good evening, everyone. It is a pleasure to welcome you all to our earnings conference call for the second quarter and first half of the financial year 2025 and wish you a Happy Diwali in advance. Let me first take you through the financial performance of the company, followed by the operational highlights.
For the quarter under review, consolidated revenues from operations reach INR491 crores, reflecting 54% Y-on-Y growth. EBITDA was INR104 crores representing a growth of 57% Y-on-Y, with EBITDA margins for the quarter reported at 21.27%. Profit after tax amounted to INR70 crores, representing a growth of 64% Y-on-Y and PAT margins were reported at 15.3%.
For the first half under review, consolidated revenue from operations reached INR853 crores, representing a growth of 33% Y-on-Y. EBITDA was INR165 crores, a growth of 31% with EBITDA margins for the period at 19.28%. Profit after tax amounted to INR113 crores representing a growth of 36% Y-on-Y with PAT margins at 13.28%.
On a standalone basis, the quarterly revenues grew by 78% Y-on-Y, reaching INR330 crores with EBITDA increasing by 104% Y-on-Y to INR63 crores and EBITDA margins at 19.22%. Net profit also grew by approximately 99% to INR47 crores. For the first half, the standalone revenues grew by 55% Y-on-Y to INR569 crores. EBITDA grew by 70% Y-on-Y to INR103 crores, and EBITDA margins were 18.17%. Net profit grew by 70% Y-on-Y to INR77 crores with PAT margins at 13.6%.
As of 30th September, our international order books stood at INR534 crores. In the domestic order book, the project business stood at INR2,730 crores, while the domestic product business was around INR401 crores. On the operations front, we witness a strong performance in the domestic business driven by both the product and project divisions.
The product division revenues grew significantly to INR83 crores in the first half of financial year, up from INR60 crores in FY ’24, with a positive outlook, supported by a growing product portfolio and a strong market presence, as well as excellent prospects on the export front from our international operations. The project division saw substantial revenue increase as well, where in the revenue for the first half reached INR431 crores, compared to INR260 crores in FY ’24. Project execution momentum has picked up which grew further expected to accelerate in the second half of the financial year, post monsoons.
Project commissioning has remained on schedule over the past two quarters. Additionally, the company is actively pursuing new contract opportunities and expecting a boost in tender activity in the second half of the financial year. Our international operations remained stable with a strong outlook across all business units. Gruppo Aturia in Italy is experiencing robust aftermarket performance and is positioned to benefit from the revival of delayed contracts in the MENA region.
WPIL in South Africa had delivered exemplary results in first half, and with the Eigenbau acquisition set to enhance product offerings in the expanding South African water sector. Large investment in South Africa’s water and power sectors add to the positive growth outlook. Meanwhile, Sterling Pumps and United Pumps Australia have record order books, and on track for significant revenue growth in FY ’25. WPIL Thailand is also benefiting from the country’s substantial water infrastructure investments.
With this, we can open the floor for questions.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] First question is from the line of Siddhartha from Caprize. Please go ahead.
Siddhartha Vemuri
Yes. So, hi, there. First of all, congratulations for a great set of results. So just wanted to understand, so I mean our product business has I know… hello?
Prakash Agarwal
Yes. Yes. Please go on.
Siddhartha Vemuri
Yes. So our product business has done tremendously well in this quarter. Just wanted to understand what has driven this particular segment and how’s the outlook — how’s the international business panning out, what is the demand scenario. So, how about the oil and gas capex, we have seen that it has slowed down a bit earlier. So, I mean, what kind of — I mean, are there any offshoots there, so just wanted to understand the overall possibilities there?
Prakash Agarwal
So, I think, the product business in India has been gaining strength over the last couple of years, especially with our new product offerings and our market presence, and translated into a strong order book and we see good growth in it. And I think in the product business, project business, or an international business, we are not really looking at specific offshoots. We are looking at more steady growth because of the diversification and the reach which we have achieved. So we see steady growth coming from opportunities.
Siddhartha Vemuri
No, no, sir. I am more interested about your international business, your international products business.
Prakash Agarwal
Same for the international business also say, for example as I’ve mentioned South Africa is making substantial investments in water and the power sector is also bouncing back there. We are present in both, so we see good opportunity there. Already our order book is strong. And same in Aturia, as we mentioned that Aturia has a lot of contracts also, which are delayed due to this present Middle East crisis. Hopefully this will settle down, these are all infrastructure projects which can be postponed but not canceled.
And similarly, in the oil and gas, as I mentioned the aftermarket business, which is perpetual for keeping production constant is unaffected by spikes in crude price. So again, that is a steady growth area. And we mentioned, this new acquisition which we have done in South Africa, which will really strengthen the offering we have there, because we can cater to the entire water sector there now.
Siddhartha Vemuri
Okay. So got it, sir. I mean, do you think this particular growth and margins are sustainable going forward?
Prakash Agarwal
Yes, we think we can keep growing.
Siddhartha Vemuri
So could you give some color on guidance, sir? I mean, what could be this year’s overall revenue and two-year guidance?
Prakash Agarwal
No, I don’t want to give any guidance, just that we see strong growth and sustainability. So I think because we are not riding a particular wave or something, so it’s more sustainable.
Siddhartha Vemuri
Okay. So — and one more — last question from my end sir, how about the project business sir, how is it panning out for you?
Prakash Agarwal
The project business, as we said we were working on enhancing revenues. So we are very pleased with the present jump in revenues, which we’ve got. And we have been working on this for some time. Now it’s happened. And this will allow us to, get back to growth because you cannot grow by order books, you have to grow by execution.
Siddhartha Vemuri
Correct. Yes. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Happy Diwali.
Prakash Agarwal
Thank you. Happy Diwali to you.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Deepak Purswani from Svan Investments. Please go ahead.
Deepak Purswani
Yes. Hi, good evening and congratulations to the management for excellent set of numbers. Sir firstly, wanted to check it out on the execution front, if I were to look into the first half, we did a — in the project business we did an execution of close to INR430 odd crores. And currently we had the order book of INR2,700 crore. So in the second half, how should we expect this run rate to continue going ahead?
Prakash Agarwal
It should keep improving. Very frankly, the second half, especially in the project business is much better, primarily due to construction season. Already the dry weather is helping us ramp up production. The monsoons — this was a very heavy monsoon, so we really struggled in July, August, September, and really looking forward to the next six months to gain further traction.
Deepak Purswani
And in terms of the challenges earlier we were facing with one of the clients in terms of BG and everything is now sorted or — and execution is now in the full swing going ahead, how should we see?
Prakash Agarwal
Yes, that’s what — I mean, we are focused — we as a company are totally focused on execution, rather than building up a order book. So we are keeping it matching and we’ve already gained with this ramp up in our revenues and the way we see it panning out in the next six months, the clients happy.
Deepak Purswani
And sir, if I were to look into the further, let’s say we have the order book of INR2,700 crore at the current juncture, and probably in the second half, we could do another INR600 odd crore execution. So by end of next year, at the beginning of the year, we will have the order book of INR2,100 crore. So if you can share your thoughts in terms of the execution for the FY ’26, especially you touched upon [Technical Issues] booked in the new activities in terms of the order flow. So if you can throw some light on the order inflow, how should we see this from the medium term perspective, so that this growth should sustain in this particular segment?
Prakash Agarwal
Absolutely right. So now that we have seen this ramp up in execution, which we have been mentioning for the last three quarters, four quarters — three quarters. Now, we are pleased and we have started actively pursuing opportunities. As I mentioned, you see a lot of tenders coming up in the second half this year, primarily because of elections, and I think other state elections, the things were delayed. There was less tendering opportunity, but I think that pent up jobs should be tendered soon and finalized before March. So we expect to get a good share from that.
Deepak Purswani
So, sir, would you like to share any update on the bid pipeline at the current juncture. If you can throw some light on that, how has been the bid pipeline spanning out for us in this particular segment?
Prakash Agarwal
So, the bid pipeline has been quite — last six months has been quite slow in the entire water sector. And it’s — as I mentioned, it should ramp up now. I think we just started seeing some tenders coming out this month. So, I think we should see a lot of tender because, they have to use the budget by March, so they will tender and try to close it quickly.
Deepak Purswani
Okay. And then, sir, moving to the product division, we did one new acquisition in the South Africa, if you can share the details on this acquisition in terms of the investment we made and what has been the financial performance of this subsidiary? And also what are the particular opportunity we would like to explore through this acquisition?
Prakash Agarwal
So, this business is in the — we are a project company and we work closely with them already, because we were supplying pumping solutions there. So by combining them, I think we have a broader offering for the client. The clients were the same, and we have a lot of expertise in India in our project business. So we can use this to get into South Africa, which has a large water investment plan, and Southern Africa. So this is what we had always wanted to do. We always thought that India and Africa are the two main areas for water infrastructure projects. So we are very happy that we have a foot hold in Africa, and we will look to build on this.
Deepak Purswani
Okay. So this particular company is into the project business, which we acquired, or it is a product company?
Prakash Agarwal
Project business, it is in the project business.
Deepak Purswani
And can you please share the investment and the financial performance of this company, for the last year or whatever the last reported…
Prakash Agarwal
The revenues were approximately ZAR150 million, which is roughly INR75 crores. And our investment is confidential, but was quite reasonable, good value we could extract.
Deepak Purswani
Okay. And then, sir, just —
Operator
Sorry to interrupt Mr. Deepak, may we please request you to rejoin the queue for the follow-up questions as several participants are waiting for their turn?
Deepak Purswani
Sure, I will rejoin.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Nikunj Doshi from Bay Capital. Please go ahead.
Nikunj Doshi
Yes, thank you, and good evening. Just wanted to understand the margin profile that we have, because we have significant portion of revenue coming from projects, and yet our margins are very high, means I would say so, it’s comparable to other engineering companies. So what it is helping us in margins, so are the product margins like significantly high that’s helping us to achieve the overall margins? Can you just guide us on that?
Prakash Agarwal
Actually, we are quite differentiated in our offering — product offering. We give solutions. So, I think we are not primarily an EPC company as such. We are in the low solution business, so we are always looking at retaining our margin. So we do projects where we can get our margin, and that’s why we are not so revenue focused. That is one. We have always targeted businesses, we expect our business to be between 15% to 20%, so when it is getting to 20% we start pushing revenues. And when it’s getting 15% then we start looking at, how do we build the margin up again.
So, that is — so we want to be there, and we have a lot of different high value products like for example, in the projects we did these pump turbines for these water — river linking projects, which are very high margin because they are very mission critical pumps. Similarly, in water projects, we try to do EPC, where we can do engineering. So by using sound engineering and good our expertise there we can add value and get money.
Nikunj Doshi
Got it. So can we assume it, as you mentioned this 15% to 20% is the range that we have to look for in the margin?
Prakash Agarwal
That is our mandate, or say what we aim at, and any business we want to do, we want to stay in that, we don’t want to do commoditized businesses.
Nikunj Doshi
Okay. And just one more, just to understand the business better. We have presence across so many countries and geographies. So how do we manage our businesses? What is the organization structure that we have to take care of this execution, project execution and the sales management?
Prakash Agarwal
So we are very fortunate that we have a — these businesses that we buy and try to add value to, they are all very strong brands, number one. So they have a basic business and a team. So they are all existing for more than 30 years, 40 years, 50 years. So it’s well-entrenched markets and well-entrenched teams. So we basically work on the Board of Directors, and we let the operations, to the team itself. And secondly, then we focus ourselves on synergy. So by using synergy between ourselves, like we have lot of R&D resources, or management resources, supply chain resources, which we can add further value and we can improve that operation.
Nikunj Doshi
This is really remarkable. Thank you. Thank you and all the best. Congratulations.
Prakash Agarwal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Nirav Sheth from Emkay Global. Please go ahead.
Nirav Sheth
Congratulations, Mr. Prakash. This is [Indecipherable] numbers. Two quick questions. You’ve always talked about trying to pace up your execution capacity and that the order book should move in tandem with that. Are there any critical bottlenecks you see in trying to speed up your execution levels further because the opportunity ahead is immense? That’s my number one question.
Prakash Agarwal
So, no, absolutely not. We are very happy that we have done it. It was a good ramp up, and we are confident of further enhancing this going forward. So no challenge there now.
Nirav Sheth
Okay. The second question is, if you look at some of your competitors, they are into probably slightly low value added stuff like solar pumps and all, but there is also big addressable market and they have been able to create some value opportunity over there. Is that a market that you have shunned out of choice because it is low margin, just trying to gather your thoughts over here.
Prakash Agarwal
Yes. Actually, first of all we have been in this business for a very long time, and we have all these companies which are there with sustainable business models. Firstly, we actually explored the option of solar and felt that it’s not commensurate with us. One, because the solar pumping system, it’s a system and the buyouts are very high, so the pump component is quite small in that. And secondly, it’s quite a commoditized product.
Nirav Sheth
Got it. Third, final question, we are sitting on substantial cash, and historically we deployed capital very effective in acquisitions. Are we getting close to getting our door through in U.S., which is the biggest market, our valuations have challenge, something like that, where are we on that?
Prakash Agarwal
So, we are — the South Africa was our first step. We have been aggressively exploring this. Yes, we missed out a couple of opportunities because of valuation. However, we have a very big pipeline up ahead and very confident of keeping this run rate going.
Nirav Sheth
Excellent. Thank you. Just one more question to Mr. Ganeriwala. Sir, this negative operating cash flow that you are seeing right now, I assuming is transient just billing differences in receivables?
Prakash Agarwal
Yes, this is because of receivables.
Nirav Sheth
Okay. Perfect. Thank you. Excellent.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Namish Gupta from NGC [Phonetic]. Please go ahead.
Namish Gupta
Yes. Hi, sir. I mean, congratulations for a very good set of numbers. I have some like two, three questions. I mean, my first question is, sir, like what is our competitive advantage, or like any entry barriers or any niche in the businesses that we operate in? And another question is, sir, like currently what is our like total addressable market as of now?
Prakash Agarwal
Firstly, this — I think we have very strong brands and business models. So our technology, our market presence, the brand recall, these are what positions us as a very strong player in the markets. Secondly, I think we have a very big entry barrier in this segment in which we operate, and that’s what we want to operate in, so that, we can add value which others cannot. The entry barriers — I mean, people all our projects or plants or equipment are for lifetimes of about 20 years to 50 years. So when someone buys a product for 20 years to 50 years, they need assurance that this guy has supplied it earlier and it is working. And, what’s the track record like, so that is the biggest entry barrier to this in our sector.
Second, the addressable market is very large, because the global pump business is roughly about close to $70 billion, and India is quite a small segment in that. So our aim was to try to address the global pump market. So we try to go in different product ranges, and wherever we see opportunities is one. And secondly, the project business in India and Africa is another very big business segment. For example, the tender system in the water sector is roughly somewhere between INR1 lakh crores to INR2 lakh crores a year in India. Then the business composed of large players, large, medium, small, and we are slowly moving into the medium to large player in this segment.
Namish Gupta
Okay. And, sir, I mean, one more question I would like to ask, sir. I mean, who are our competitors in Indian markets, sir, like in big players?
Prakash Agarwal
I think we don’t have a one-to-one competitor, because we operate in different segments. So in projects, as you know, the big players are L&T, NCC, Kalpataru they are all operating very strong players in the water segment. And in the pumps segment, we are competing with Kirloskar in some of the engineered products, and different companies and different products. So we have a wide range of products, and we are focused on the engineered range. And we have different competitors there, some of the players are global. So it’s different, different players in different segments, and that’s why we have diversified into — it’s one business, but diversified over a lot of different segments.
Namish Gupta
Okay. Sir, thanks, sir. I will again join in queue, sir.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Samir Palod from AUM. Please go ahead.
Samir Palod
Yes. Hi, am I audible?
Operator
Yes, please go ahead.
Prakash Agarwal
Yes, you are.
Samir Palod
Congratulations on a fantastic set of numbers. Prakash ji, one question, you had an international subsidiary which was divested last year at around INR600 crores, which had the nuclear pumping technology. From what we are reading, that is going to be a very, very large opportunity internationally, as well as possibly in India as well. So any thoughts on, how do you stay relevant in addressing that market or is that a market not for you?
Prakash Agarwal
Yes, we’ve decided the market is not for us. One is that, I think, nuclear is a very long life cycle, the projects take a long time to come through. These programs are ever shifting and the opportunity is not that large, because you have to take the timeframe. A nuclear plant takes about 15 years to set up. So very long tenure. So you get one contract which is executed, and then you are setting it up. And then you would get aftermarket business which is for the next 30 years, 40, years. So we decided that the resources — this valuation we could get is better used in other areas.
Samir Palod
Right. And sir my second question, last question is on the industrial segment — the product segment in India, if you can just elaborate a few examples of what are the kinds of solutions that you are providing, let’s say, for a very large industrial customer, etc., just to give us a sense of what the opportunity is. We are aware of the sort of government Jal Mission and all of those kinds of projects, but on the product side, where you are customizing products for industrial applications, if you could just throw some light on that?
Prakash Agarwal
So in industrial products, every — most of these plants, any industrial plant has a cooling water system, because any operation, whether heat generated needs to be cooled, then you need to take the water from the reservoir, it’s an intake water. Then that entire water is stored and pumped throughout the plant. So you have cooling towers, say, for example a steel plant, they will have to cool the blast furnace, they will have to cool the rolling mills. So they would run circuits — cooling circuits. And all those circuits are moved by pumps. So that is one, for example. And now in power plants, we are very big because, the steam is what we are using. So you are pumping a huge amount of water through the boiler turbines, and then through the cooling towers cooling it down. So to keep the circuit moving so you take water from the source and then you put it in the system, and you keep circulating it, so that circulating water system is primarily the area and which is in every industry.
Samir Palod
Right. So — but you mentioned that a lot of you are competitors, but they are all EPC companies in this segment, right, L&T and Kalpataru. So where are they buying the product from?
Prakash Agarwal
Yes. First of all, so you said industrial segment is bought directly by the say, CIL or TISCO and Reliance, etc. But in the EPC segment, you have a water segment where we do projects. So in water, yes our L&T would be buying from us, or L&T is buying from us, Kalpataru is buying from us and so on and so forth. So we would supply to all the contractors also the pumps that is in water. Again, in irrigation we would supply the pumps to them, in sewage we would supply the pumps, in drainage we would supply the pumps.
Samir Palod
So in just supplying the pumps who is your larger competitor, not the EPC guys, but guys you compete with for supply of the pumps, who would the EPC contractors go to other than you?
Prakash Agarwal
As I mentioned, Kirloskar, so for water in our water projects, irrigation projects, mostly it’s Kirloskar. In sewage and drainage, it’s different players. In Navy, it’s different players where we have — so defense, is a big area for us.
Samir Palod
Maybe. Thank you and all the best. And festive wishes to you.
Prakash Agarwal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Balu from Parami Financial Services. Please go ahead. Balu, your line is unmuted. Please go-ahead with your question. As there is no response from the current questioner, we will move to the next question from the line of Vinay Nadkarni from Hathway Investments Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Vinay Nadkarni
Prakash ji, just wanted to check out the growth in this particular quarter. Was it something to do with the first quarter being the election quarter and therefore not many government orders came about and all those got bunched in the second quarter?
Prakash Agarwal
No, it’s the fact that, the order book has been growing, and obviously the execution comes with a lag. So the order book grew first with the business opportunities, and then the execution has started developing from there.
Vinay Nadkarni
And just on, the South African acquisition, roughly what kind of addition to the top line would you estimate that in FY ’26?
Prakash Agarwal
The business as I mentioned, had revenues of roughly ZAR150 million which is INR75 crores. So, we will hope — beyond that, we would look to be hoping that we can grow that.
Vinay Nadkarni
Okay. And the margins are similar to Indian margins, or better than that?
Prakash Agarwal
No, we will have to improve that, so that’s where we want to add value to.
Vinay Nadkarni
Okay. You can share the current margin there?
Prakash Agarwal
It’s lower than our Indian margins, so we think we can add value there.
Vinay Nadkarni
Okay. Thank you. Thanks a lot. All the best, and Happy Diwali to you.
Prakash Agarwal
Happy Diwali to you. Thank you.
Vinay Nadkarni
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Tej Patel from Niveshaay. Please go ahead.
Tej Patel
Hello. Am I audible, sir?
Operator
Yes, go ahead.
Prakash Agarwal
Yes, you are.
Tej Patel
Thank you so much for the opportunity and congratulations to you for an amazing execution, especially in quarter two. So sir, I wanted to understand the end user — I mean, if you could just give a breakup of your project order book in terms of like say how much is to towards let’s say power, and how much is towards, let’s say water. And water also if you could specifically break down, let’s say how much is for sewage, how much is for water supply, and then irrigation is also a component of that. If you just can give me a breakup of this?
Prakash Agarwal
So, in our — over the last three years, four years, the water segment was dominated by this Jal Jeevan Mission of the government. And post that, we see the buildup in AMRUT scheme, which is the urban water. So we have rural water under Jal Jeevan and urban water under AMRUT. So these two were major constituents in order book. And prior to that, we had a large number of irrigation jobs. So now that we see a shift back to irrigation, because we have got a good amount of traction in water in the country, building up a lot of capacity. So, I think it keeps fluctuating, but primarily between water and irrigation, is where our project division works. Our pumps work across all sectors.
Tej Patel
Is there any major end user segment in, let’s say your pump also towards which — from which you are deriving majority of revenue from, because you give your pumps for Navy also, and then you give your pumps for irrigation also, and then for sewage plants also, so I am just trying to understand where does your majority of the revenues come from?
Prakash Agarwal
It’s very balanced there. We had a big crush, because if there are large number of water projects awarded, in the last two years, we had a large segment of water pumps requirement. Now we see that shift going to irrigation, then we will have a large number of irrigation pumps, industrial, power, etc., Navy. Navy is a big growth area which has given by the government so we see a good growth there. So it’s quite balanced for us over a period of time. So, if you take a five-year cycle, it’s quite balanced proportion.
Tej Patel
Got it. And sir, what would be our current bank guarantee limits and how much of it would be utilized as of now?
Prakash Agarwal
I’m sorry, I don’t have that here, but it’s commensurate with our business. No challenge there.
Tej Patel
So what was I trying to understand is, how much order can we take on more given our [Indecipherable]?
Prakash Agarwal
I think we can — you see the orders very frankly in the project business, have a time frame of about two years. So if you get that two-year time frame for an order so, it has to be, we target to have an order book of about 2.5 times our revenue.
Tej Patel
Okay.
Prakash Agarwal
So, if our revenue was about INR800 crores previously, so we were pushing up our revenues so that we can enhance the order book. We have to keep that balance. Otherwise, you will have unexecuted orders which are very painful for the company.
Tej Patel
Got it. And sir —
Operator
Sorry to interrupt Mr. Patel, may we please request you to rejoin the queue for the follow-up questions. Thank you.
Tej Patel
Yes. Thank you.
Operator
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Siddhartha from Caprize Investments. Please go ahead.
Siddhartha Vemuri
Yes. Hi, sir. One more question from my end. So since we are sitting on huge pile of cash, so, I mean — so did you narrow down on any potential acquisition targets? I know we are — we want — as we wanted to get a foothold in North America, I mean just wanted to understand, so what’s the game plan here?
Prakash Agarwal
Yes, exactly. So we have a long list of targets, and we are actively pursuing them. And yes, you are right. One of the major addressable markets for us is the U.S. And, we want to deploy this cash well so we are also keen. I think, the market is now more favorable. The valuations are becoming reasonable, so we see good opportunity there now.
Siddhartha Vemuri
Okay. Can we expect an announcement soon, sir?
Prakash Agarwal
I hope so. So the South African one was a good start, and I think we will build up on this in the second half.
Siddhartha Vemuri
Yes. Sure. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Raman KV from Sequent Investments. Please go ahead.
Raman KV
[Indecipherable]
Operator
Sorry to interrupt Mr. Raman, your voice is not audible.
Raman KV
Hello. Can you hear me?
Operator
Yes, please go ahead.
Raman KV
So, I just want to know the guidance of FY ’25?
Prakash Agarwal
I think we are seeing good growth, as we have been mentioning with a good strong order book and very robust outlook across all our businesses. We see good growth in FY ’25.
Raman KV
Sir, can I get some numbers with respect to it?
Prakash Agarwal
So, we don’t like to give guidance, because there are quite a few moving parts. You have say, for example, some projects shifting, some dispatches shifting. So, I think we would avoid that.
Raman KV
And one small clarification, you said INR600 crores is under execution. And around INR2,700 crores is the order book with respect to the projects, right?
Prakash Agarwal
Last year, we had a revenue execution of about INR800 crores. And present order book, as of today is INR2,730 in the projects.
Raman KV
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Prakash Agarwal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Ankit from Alpha Capital. Please go ahead. Ankit, your line is unmuted. Please proceed.
Ankit
Hello, sir. Am I audible?
Operator
Yes, please proceed.
Ankit
Yes. Thank you for taking my question. Sir, as in project business you said second half is much better than first off. So that is understandable. But I guess even in pump side the same story, is that so, sir? I mean, can you please comment why?
Prakash Agarwal
Yes, it’s same, because — you are absolutely right because again the contractors also — the people we supply to like us, they would also be buying more in the second half. And the governments also, they are pushing in the second half. So we see a lot of — the quicker short turnaround order is also coming in now. So overall, if you see our history, it’s always been a build up from the first quarter onwards, the last quarter is the biggest normally.
Ankit
Got it, sir. And sir on margin side, you said 15% to 20% is generally the range. But I see, in this Q2 as well as last year Q2 we had around 21% margin, which tend to reduce going forward. Why is that, sir, and what should be our expectation?
Prakash Agarwal
Similarly, so it keeps fluctuating through the year, but we keep it in that area, we might have a good year, certain good projects went out, certain areas, regions performed well. So, it shifts the thing, but it’s a mix of revenue. So when the revenues are increasing, the margin also I see moderates.
Ankit
Got it, sir. Thank you and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Co. Please go ahead.
Saket Kapoor
Yes. Namaskar, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I joined very late, so sorry for any repetition. Firstly, sir the government is very much keen on this river linking project. So in this scope of work, what can be the kind of requirement, or either in the project business or in the pump side, where we can be an active player?
Prakash Agarwal
We are one of the few people who have executed these sizes. We have done these large, 30 megawatt pump turbines for river linking in Telangana, and we successfully commissioned both the schemes last year. So we are well placed when the river linking projects take up.
Saket Kapoor
Okay. I think [Indecipherable] project, I think that is what has been talked about. So you would be having better understanding on the same, sir?
Prakash Agarwal
When we mentioned irrigation, a lot of these large irrigation projects are actually river linking.
Saket Kapoor
Okay, sir. Okay.
Prakash Agarwal
We are seeing some in Rajasthan already.
Saket Kapoor
So, there is lot of trust, that is what our understanding will be going there.
Prakash Agarwal
As I mentioned, to be very clear, this — the investment in water and irrigation and river linking, sewage drainage is going to be there for a very long time.
Saket Kapoor
Right, sir. Sir, when we look at the order book mix you have which have been presented in the presentation. O&M part is around INR529 crore and INR2,200 is the project size of it, that is the construction side of it. So what should be the executable period for the same? And I think so for international order book is totally about this pumps part, that is the product side. So, if you could just give a timeline on the executable period for both the segments?
Prakash Agarwal
Both the segments, just the product segment, we normally look at a lead time of anywhere between four months to eight months, depending on the product. And in the projects, we are looking at, a rough idea is two years execution. So, some projects get delayed, postponed because of some design issues, some land issue. So, you can take it two and a half years, is what we are aiming, that we would like an order book to be round about 2.5 times of our revenue, execution capability.
Saket Kapoor
Just to add to it, sir, we have always seen —
Operator
Mr. Kapoor may we please request you to rejoin the queue for the follow-up question, sir.
Saket Kapoor
[Foreign Speech] Thank you.
Operator
Thank you, sir. Next question is from the line of Vineeth Lambu from HSBC Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Vineeth Lambu
Hi, sir. Good evening. I have a question on project business…
Operator
Sorry to interrupt Mr. Vineeth, your voice is very low. Please use your handset.
Vineeth Lambu
Can you hear me clearly now?
Operator
Yes, please go ahead.
Vineeth Lambu
So, I have a question regarding the projects business. So right now, INR2,700 crores, whatever the order book is there out of this, what would be the exposure to Jal Nigam, or this missions of government projects, if I can know?
Prakash Agarwal
I think close to 60% would be right now, Jal Jeevan. And just to qualify that we had the O&M business also in the projects business, which will continue for a long time, so we will be having a significant presence in the Jal Jeevan, the O&Ms are about 15 years, 10 years to 15 years.
Vineeth Lambu
And any order book named in this first half, like have won any order book?
Prakash Agarwal
Small orders which are, I don’t want to speak the present projects, but no major project, because the tenders were not there or very few.
Vineeth Lambu
Okay. And just last one question, so what is the win rate of our projects, which we bid and any pipeline which is visible from different governments and in which states you are present in, that would be helpful, because your exposure is lot towards government projects. So that’s why I want to know, like in which states you are present in and which states you are focusing in?
Prakash Agarwal
So water and irrigation are both state subjects. So yes, we are working with the states. Now it will depend on where the investments come. Right now there is a sort of a lull period going on, and we expect major thrust in the second half. So, I think we will be able to talk more about the bid pipeline and prospects in the next meetings.
Vineeth Lambu
Okay. Like which states you are present in, if you can…
Prakash Agarwal
Right now we are present in, we are working in more or less all the states. Majorly we were working in Madhya Pradesh and West Bengal, and we are working in Telangana, we are working in Gujarat, we are working in Maharashtra, so quite a spread out in the big states.
Vineeth Lambu
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Deepak Purswani from Svan Investments. Please go ahead.
Deepak Purswani
Yes. Thank you for the follow-up opportunity. Sir, just continuing on the international market, if you could throw some light in the Australian market, especially for the Sterling Pumps and United Pumps, how do we see the underlying environment at the current juncture and how should we see the opportunities here?
Prakash Agarwal
So the Australian market both companies are doing exceedingly well. And the growth prospects are very large there. The new acquisition we did of United Pumps has really been successful. And we are ramping up our execution there also, because after buying this business, we got a large amount of orders and that execution is now coming through. So second half of this year and going forward we should see a jump there. We have already seen it in South Africa now we expect it in Australia.
Deepak Purswani
Okay. So, sir, in the investor presentation we have mentioned, out of the total international order book of INR534 crore, Australian market is 21% which is order book of INR112 crore. And if I were to look into the previous quarter in the same time, it used to be INR136 crore or INR156 crore. So just wanted to check, am I missing something or I mean how should we look into the order inflow opportunity in the Australia market?
Prakash Agarwal
I think we are at a good size. I think what we are mentioning say about AUD20 million to AUD25 million size, we again — we have to deliver, and then we can ramp up so the opportunities exist. We are one of the strongest players in the oil and gas sector in Australia, huge amount of gas investments, LNG terminals are being put up there. So we are the preferred supplier there. So, I think execution is there also an area we are focusing on now, the order book is right there for us.
Deepak Purswani
Okay. And then, sir, on the cash…
Operator
Sorry to interrupt Mr. Deepak, may we please request you to rejoin the queue.
Deepak Purswani
Just last question.
Operator
Sir, please rejoin the queue for the follow-up and many participants are waiting for the turns.
Deepak Purswani
Okay. No problem.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Jainish Shah, an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.
Jainish Shah
Yes. Thank you, sir. [Technical Issues]
Operator
Mr. Jainish, there is a disturbance from your lines. Your voice is not clear.
Jainish Shah
Hello?
Operator
Yes, please go ahead.
Jainish Shah
Yes. So congratulations on a good set of numbers. And so, I just have a couple of questions. One, on the margins and the pump segment. I think, it is all more — it is all being now at 25% on the EBIT level which is visible in the numbers. Just wanted to understand, is there a product mix which has played a part here in boosting the margins here, or it is more like a secular trend in the — where structurally the margin in the business is changing? That is one question.
And second, as you are looking out for acquisition opportunities, what are the guardrails you’ve like earmarked when it comes to the target companies? Is it in the — like in the form of the capabilities which you want to build or — and also on the financial matrix, what kind of payback measures or the IRRs you are looking at in such kind of an opportunity? You can just give some better understanding that will be helpful. Thank you, sir.
Prakash Agarwal
Two things. One is, I think the product margins in across our businesses, as we have mentioned are strong and stable. So it’s not that it is fluctuating based on a trend. Yes, sometimes we feel a bit of pressure because of commodity prices. Right now commodity prices are stable and have corrected from their highs. So, that’s a positive tailwind there. But otherwise we are very mission critical products and lot of aftermarket there, so close to the customer. And this is the sort of margin range we operate in.
And the second thing is, we are looking at enhancing businesses in the same products we are in, and we want to expand into different geographies and further strengthen our operations. So, if you see we bought one business in Italy, and we merged it with our Italian business. So that strengthened it, same we did in Australia, now the same thing we are doing in South Africa. In India, we bought Mody Pumps and we merged it into our business. So this is a trend, we keep building on these competencies very focused. It’s not just acquisition for acquisition sake, where we can add value. So basically, more driven by synergy and yes, we pay, we are looking for businesses at a very good value, we don’t want to overpay. We are looking at a payback of four years.
Jainish Shah
Okay. So, four years of payback which you are looking at in the investments, which you are going to…
Prakash Agarwal
Target here, we hope we can get it at that.
Jainish Shah
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. Congratulations and again for the good set of numbers that you delivered. Thank you, sir.
Prakash Agarwal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Namish Gupta from NGC. Please proceed.
Namish Gupta
Yes. Sir, I just want to know in, like in some segments, I mean what is our market I mean share currently, sir?
Prakash Agarwal
Our market share is — the market is very, very big. As I just mentioned that, we are trying to be an international player, or a global player and operating in global markets. The global pump market is about $70 billion. So, even 1% is $700 million, which is about INR6000 crores. So very far away for us. And we try to use the size of the global market and the range of the global market that is one of the size of different geographies, and second is the different market segments. Like, for example, you have positive displacement pumps, centrifugal pumps, then various sub segments within that. So we try to gain as many segments as we can so that we can gain revenues. We are looking at an overall market share, not in a country, say for example in India we are operating in say power plant pumps, and then we are operating in sewage pumps. So we have different, different market shares in each products. [Speech Overlap] We would be in the top four in every segment we work in.
Ravi Anand
Okay. So, like, sir, we are like you said in some of the pumping solutions, our main competitor is Kirloskar. So, can you just guide me what kind of market share we enjoy at least in India region?
Prakash Agarwal
As I said, we are in top four in all segments. That is our aim, we are in top four in all our segments, in India and globally, wherever we operate, we are in the top four, but the percentage varies from time to time.
Ravi Anand
Okay, okay. Fine, sir. Fine, sir. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Ravi Anand, an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.
Ravi Anand
Good evening, sir. My first question is, how many projects are nearing completion in Q3 of ’25?
Prakash Agarwal
In the second half of the year, we are looking at about four to five projects for commissioning.
Ravi Anand
Right, sir. And second question is, sir, what is the status of the onboard pumps for the Indian Navy?
Prakash Agarwal
They are progressing very well, and we look forward to getting bulk orders from next year, that means next calendar year.
Ravi Anand
Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Tej Patel from Niveshaay. Please go ahead.
Tej Patel
Thank you for the opportunity. My question have been called by the previous participants. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aditya from Sowilo Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Aditya Ravindran
Hi. So, I have couple of questions. One is that, I just want to know that these projects which are awarded by the state government, are they fully funded by the state government, or is it like partial state and central or do you also have like multilateral agencies which are part of the funding?
And, with that follow-on would be like, does that impact your collection in terms of revenues like this events like elections, do these things impact your revenue collections?
Prakash Agarwal
One is I think looking at a mix of funding, the Jal Jeevan Mission was a special scheme where the center and state were co-partnering where center supported the states, but otherwise, mostly the water is a state subject, state uses its own funds and sometimes reaches out to, so we have some, like we are doing a West Bengal project in Purulia, which is ADP funded at the same time, we are doing a Purulia project, which is Jal Jeevan Mission project. So it’s a mix of funding agencies. Secondly, yes, as you have seen in the last six months, funding has been affected first the election and then the state election.
Aditya Ravindran
Okay. So that means that there is a chance for delay, but there’s no chance for default, right?
Prakash Agarwal
Yes, I think that is very correct statement you have made.
Aditya Ravindran
Fine. And then this — a previous participant did ask this, but I want little more clarity, especially in terms of the states in India. Can you just — you mentioned Madhya Pradesh, West Bengal, Telangana, Gujarat, Maharashtra. Is this the in order of revenue that is mentioned because, I just want to know that in order of revenue.
Prakash Agarwal
I just want to clarify that, the Jal Jeevan Mission when we got involved, we focused on the states which had maximum schemes to be implemented. For example, Goa was 100% already — all Jal Jeevan Mission projects were already done. Same in Telangana. So Madhya Pradesh, West Bengal and UP were the states where there were large number of projects in the pipeline. That’s why we focused on that. So similarly in irrigation, you will see, like Maharashtra is a big area, lot of irrigation schemes are there. Rajasthan has taken up a large number of river linking project schemes. So you have to go where the opportunity is.
Aditya Ravindran
Okay, in your current…
Operator
Sorry to interrupt Mr. Aditya, may we please request you to rejoin, please.
Aditya Ravindran
No, this is just a follow-up to — no, this is just a follow-up to the question I asked. So in your current list, which state rank high, I mean the order of revenue by state. Do you have that handy?
Prakash Agarwal
Very frankly, we are now looking at the next set of work which is coming up. The old jobs are quite advanced, so it will shift the matrix. That’s why the history is not a precursor to the future. For example Madhya Pradesh, most of the Jal Jeevan Schemes have been awarded already.
Aditya Ravindran
Okay.
Operator
Thank you. Next follow up question is from the line of Vineeth Lambu from HSBC Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Vineeth Lambu
So, I have a similar question on the project revenue. So last year, the project revenue was like skewed, like 65% execution was in second half and 35% was in first half. So this would be similarly in the range in this year also, like the execution would be similarly skewed?
Prakash Agarwal
It will be skewed, because as I mentioned that the post monsoon season is the real work season for us. We are looking at good growth in the six months. The percentages might change, but yes it will be skewed.
Vineeth Lambu
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next follow-up question is from the line of Deepak Purswani from Svan Investments. Please go ahead. Yes, please go-ahead.
Deepak Purswani
Yes. Sir, just wanted to check it out on the cash flows. Since this time we have a negative operating cash flow. If I were to look into the broader item, there are the two broader items, apart from the trade payables, that is contractual assets, which has increased this time in the balance sheet and contracts liability which is declined this time. So contract asset is grown at INR82 crore odd. So if you can give some sense what exactly these items are, and how should we look into going ahead in terms of the cash flow?
Prakash Agarwal
So one is receivables we should see that improving. There was a sluggishness due to elections and spill over from that. We already seeing a bit of easing there, and we see it further improving as the months go by, next couple of months. That is one. Secondly, as you execute the billing schedules are such that you have a significant amount for commissioning. So as more projects are commissioned, the assets will go down and the liabilities will increase.
Deepak Purswani
Okay. Thank you, sir. Thanks a lot. And wish you Happy Diwali.
Prakash Agarwal
Thank you. Happy Diwali to you.
Operator
Thank you. Next follow-up question is from the line of Vinay Nadkarni from Hathway Investments Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Vinay Nadkarni
Yes, Prakash ji, just one quick question on the margins, when I see this current quarter, both for international as well as domestic, they have jumped up, especially if I think — I am talking year-on-year. For international, the jump from 16.5% to almost 25.5% any particular thing where we have made this growth, is it more in value or price increases or what exactly is it?
Prakash Agarwal
The one point I see as a trend is that, we had always mentioned that we wanted to bring our product ratio up. That means we were — our project revenues had moved disproportionately to our product, our product revenues have started going up, and we see this positively influencing margins going forward.
Vinay Nadkarni
Okay. And in domestic also, the margin has gone up [Speech Overlap]?
Prakash Agarwal
This is primarily domestic. In the domestic segment, we have projects and products. So as the ratio increases of products, we will find margins improving.
Vinay Nadkarni
And in international jump of almost.
Prakash Agarwal
International is pretty stable. No significant reason for a quarter. It could be a quarter-on-quarter change.
Vinay Nadkarni
Okay. Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. The next follow-up question is from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Co. Please go ahead.
Saket Kapoor
Yes. Thank you, sir. Sir when we look at our cash flow and then simultaneously on the balance sheet part, we have long-term borrowing which we have drawn closer to INR100 crores. So if you could explain to us the nature of the same and then the terms and the purpose of this long-term borrowing and cost of fund?
Prakash Agarwal
It’s for working capital only, no other specific purpose. We faced some, as I mentioned that the fund flow receivables went up because of the fund flow from the government was slow. So we took this just to give ourselves some headroom there, we took this long term loan. But as things ease out now we will maybe pre pay it if required.
Saket Kapoor
Okay. Since they are clubbed under the non-current liberty, I thought that it is for a longer tenure?
Prakash Agarwal
So we took a precautionary thing that in case this drag down this crisis fund issue.
Saket Kapoor
Correct. Correct. And sir, I missed your — in opening remarks, have you mentioned about the cost of acquisition for our South African…
Prakash Agarwal
I mentioned, it’s confidential and quite small.
Saket Kapoor
Quite small, but…
Prakash Agarwal
Relative to the business we have bought its quite small.
Saket Kapoor
Okay. Sir, any strategic part we are playing in terms of this small acquisition? What are — where do this company fits in the realm of things that attracted us. So as you are mentioning that the size of the company has grown, and then only INR75 crore revenue has been done by them. So what took our attention, any technology, what did — what was the reason for the buyers?
Prakash Agarwal
So they ticked all the boxes. Number one, they work in the same clients as we do in South Africa. They are very strong, they have been there for nearly 40 years, very well established, very good team of people, which we have got with them, big asset and it’s lot of synergies, they are in Johannesburg, very close to our team. They are known to our team, they have been working together in lots of projects as JVs. We have formed a JV with them in the past. So that is a plus. And secondly, we are targeting, to build on — the synergy, if we buy a company and we cannot add value to it, then we cannot improve payback, and returns from it. So we are always looking at companies where we can use the synergy.
Saket Kapoor
Sir, you mentioned that for MP…
Operator
Sorry to interrupt Mr. Kapoor…
Saket Kapoor
Sir, only to what sir was telling, allow me and that concludes. Sir, you’ve mentioned about that majority of the project for Madhya Pradesh, Jal Jeevan and other has been given and done. I think so some — there were some reversal due to some project delays, or there were some regulatory issues, any update on the same, sir? Where are we in midst of that?
Prakash Agarwal
Yes, we are in litigation right now, for that particular contract, but otherwise we have eight projects which we are running with Jal Nigam.
Saket Kapoor
No update on the same sir as of now?
Prakash Agarwal
No, litigation is proceeding it will take time, please.
Saket Kapoor
Okay. Okay. Sir, all the best to you, sir, to the team, sir. And Happy Diwali [Phonetic], sir. Thank you.
Prakash Agarwal
Thank you. And same to you.
Operator
Thank you. Next follow-up question is from the line of Namish Gupta from NGC. Please go ahead.
Namish Gupta
Sir, I mean, I have two more questions, sir. I mean — I think this was also asked by a previous participant, but just would like to confirm, are we focusing more on products than on projects so that we want to take our share of product business I mean more than project business? This is my first question, sir. And my second question is, sir, like are we also in this segment of pump storage projects?
Prakash Agarwal
So, first question is that our project business had ramped up. So our ratio went off. That means we had gone down to 25-75 in domestic, we want to bring it back to 40-60 if we can. So both businesses need to grow. So that is the positive thrust we are doing, and the environment for the product business is also improving, that is one. Yes, we have pumps for pump storage. Pump storage is also done by the pump turbines which we have commissioned in the river linking.
Namish Gupta
Okay. Fine, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next follow-up question is from the line of Aditya from Sowilo Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Aditya Ravindran
Yes. I just want to know the breakup of the product business between domestic and international, order — sorry, order book.
Prakash Agarwal
Order book is about INR540 crores in the international and domestic is INR401 crores.
Aditya Ravindran
And for the projects business, what is the execution time?
Prakash Agarwal
Roughly two years is tentatively, some delays, some approvals get delayed. So it will take two and a half years generally.
Aditya Ravindran
Sure, sir. And just one last question, in this Kaleshwaram Lift, the KLIP project. So there, there were some newspaper articles which had come up on the viability and all that. So, I just wanted to understand, are we in any way affected because of that?
Prakash Agarwal
No, we are not affected. Yes, we are affected that some — the financing for the project got disturbed. It was earlier financed by Power Finance Corporation apparently, there is some fund issue, so we are unable to get our last payments. But otherwise we are not affected. Our projects are well commissioned and doing very well.
Aditya Ravindran
So how much is stuck over there?
Prakash Agarwal
Not really stuck. It’s a commissioning and the project closure process is on.
Aditya Ravindran
Okay. What is the amount, can you tell me?
Prakash Agarwal
It’s not available with me right now, because it will be — have to be certified. So once the commissioning activity — the closing activities are started and then they will close it.
Aditya Ravindran
Okay.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for the day. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Prakash Agarwal from WPIL Limited for the closing comments.
Prakash Agarwal
Thank you all for participating in this earnings conference call. I hope we were able to answer your question satisfactorily, and at the same time offer insights into our business. If you have any further questions or would like to know more about the company, please reach out to our Investor Relation managers at Valorem Advisors. Thank you, and Happy Diwali to you.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks]