Wonderla Holidays Ltd (NSE:WONDERLA) Q4 FY21 earnings concall dated Jun. 09, 2021.
Corporate Participants:
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Satheesh Seshadri — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Kunal Sharma — Perfect Research — Analyst
Adhidev Chattopadhyay — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Rajesh Ranganathan — Doric Capital — Analyst
Parimal Mithani — Credential Investments — Analyst
Gita Mehta — LHS Ventures — Analyst
Meet Jagani — PS Associates — Analyst
Nitin Dharmavat — Aurum Capital — Analyst
Manoj Dua — — Analyst
Pawan — Lacuna Capital — Analyst
Anuj Sharma — M3 Investment — Analyst
Saurabh Arora — — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Wonderla Holidays Q4 FY ’21 Results Conference Call hosted by ICICI Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I will now hand the conference over to Mr. Adhidev Chattopadhyay from ICICI Securities Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Adhidev Chattopadhyay — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Yeah. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of ICICI Securities, I’d like to welcome everyone today on the call. Today from the management of Wonderla we have with us Mr. Arun Chittilappilly, the Managing Director and Mr. Satheesh Seshadri, the Chief Financial Officer.
I would now like to hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks. Thank you.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Good evening, everyone. This is Arun Chittilappilly. We welcome you to this conference call to discuss the fourth quarter results of the financial year 2021. Hope everyone continues to be safe and I would like to start off by appreciating the relentless effort of various COVID warriors who made sure that people are safe during this pandemic.
After reopening Bangalore and Kochi parks in November and December respectively, the calendar year 2021 started off on a good note for us, as Hyderabad park also resumed operations on 9th January. All three of our parks were operational after a gap of more than seven months. I would like to emphasize that our team was ready to immediately reopen the parks once necessary clearances were received from the governments. The team continues to excel with their dedication and resilient as we found innovative ways to safely entertain nearly 4 lakh guests. Post unlock, Wonderla continue to be a preferred destination for outdoor entertainment in our host city and we witnessed substantial demand once our parks resumed operations.
In January, our parks were operational only from Thursday to Sunday. This was further increased to Wednesday to Sunday in February and in the month of March, all the parks were open all of the days of the week. Our attendance consistently improved every month since we first reopened the parks.
Wonderla is also the first theme-park chain in the country to be awarded the highly coveted COV-SAFE certification by Bureau Veritas. Wonderla Bangalore and Kochi certified with Diamond certification and Hyderabad park has secured a Platinum certification. We introduced industry-leading safety standards and protocols to protect both our employees and our guests who come to have a memorable day with us. This includes encouraging online reservation system for admission, touch-less temperature and security screening, contactless transactions and enhanced sanitization. Our outdoor venues have tremendous amount of open space and our parks are naturally conducive to social distancing.
Over the decades, Wonderla has faced many challenges, but FY 2021 was the toughest challenge faced, not just by Wonderla, but the industry and the world at large. The results for the quarter and full year may not be comparable to the prior year due to the pandemic limitations.
Coming to our performance for Q4 FY ’21. Our focus on digital marketing and to use innovative approach including influencer activities and PR campaign yielded good results. We recorded footfalls of 3.1 lakhs visitors across all parks, which is more than 1 lakh per month. We also introduced innovative F&B and retail offerings in-sync with the events during the quarter. On a Y-o-Y basis, our footfalls are at 77% of pre-pandemic Q4. We registered gross revenue off INR347.9 million, clocking a recovery of for 77% [Phonetic] of the INR449.1 million revenue registered in Q4 FY ’20. We are also EBITDA positive for Q4 FY ’21. The Company’s robust balance sheet continues to be debt free and has ample liquidity of INR930 million.
Even though there was a setback for us due to the second wave and we closed our parks in April, our team is motivated and we are trying to put our best foot forward to drive the company to scale new heights. We have identified high performance and rewarded them with the increments. Additionally, we are also working on vaccination efforts for all our staffs. We continue to focus on sustainable value creation from our resilient business. Despite the recent lockdown, we are optimistic that it will generate a widespread desire which will help us drive attendance in the coming quarters. We are looking forward to put the worst of the pandemic behind us and delight our guests in our parks as and when the time is appropriate.
We thank you for your continued support and remain confident in emerging stronger as our strategic plan remain intact. We can now proceed to Q&A. Thank you very much.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Sharma Kunal from Perfect Research. Please go ahead.
Kunal Sharma — Perfect Research — Analyst
Hi, good evening, sir. Sir, I have a few questions, so I’m listing down together. The first, when do you see the India open up like US where the post sufficient vaccination, even masks are not required.
And second, sir, along with the opening a bigger park, shouldn’t we also think indoor entertainment option in malls due to two reasons, the first is setting up this big park instead of painful time consuming process and slow outgrowth. Second reason is that city people would be able to use the city entertainment options more regularly versus coming once or twice to a big park.
Third question is, any learning from running Wonder Nursery and Wonder Kitchen, which could help us scale-up business later. And lastly —
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Can you please limit your questions to number two because I will not be able to answer all of them otherwise.
Kunal Sharma — Perfect Research — Analyst
There is a last question. Is there any opportunity to inorganic acquisition of the park in India. Thank you.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Sorry, I didn’t hear the last one.
Kunal Sharma — Perfect Research — Analyst
The last one is, is there any opportunity we see of inorganic acquisition of other parts in India. Yeah.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
So your first question was when do we see the pandemic kind of receding?
Kunal Sharma — Perfect Research — Analyst
Yeah.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
That will only happen if at least 50% of the population is vaccinated. As you all may already be aware, now in our large country like India it could take five months, it could take six months, it could take one year, it could take two years. It’s all up to the government. Let’s hope for the best. They are saying that we will finish vaccination by December, but I highly doubt it. Maybe a year is what I think.
Second question, what was it about. Sorry, could you repeat your second question.
Kunal Sharma — Perfect Research — Analyst
Shouldn’t we also think about the indoor entertainment…
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Okay. Indoor entertainment, yeah. So indoor entertainment is a different ball format. It does not come under the amusement park business. It’s a completely different business and you know the entry barrier for something like that is relatively low. Like you rightly said, the building of large park is always much more costly and time consuming, but our expertise is in the large format parks. So we don’t want to get into the small park business because I don’t think there are enough margins and I don’t think there are any players who have been really successful at it. I don’t — yeah — so I’m not really bullish, I mean, for me, I don’t think it makes sense, for this company.
Third question — the last question was — sorry, could you repeat your last one. I forgot, too many questions. You limit the questions to number two next. Two questions, okay, next time.
Kunal Sharma — Perfect Research — Analyst
Okay. Sure. Any learning from the like running Wonder Nursery and the Wonder Kitchen?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Wonder Nursery and Kitchen and all was only for you know it was only to engage our guests, sorry, our staff during the pandemic last year when we had an extended lockdown. Once we recovered from the lockdown and we were in a position to open the parks, we found it difficult to run both the businesses together and also running a takeaway food outlet had its own challenges because it’s a very low margin-high volume business and we did not have enough — we couldn’t recruit more staff to grow that business and at the same time, we were also trying to reopen the parks. So we had to take a call on which we want — we obviously prioritized reopening of our parks and getting footfall ramp-up over the other businesses. So those continue to be there only as — I mean we are not doing the Wonder Kitchen anymore but Wonder Garden continues to be there, but it’s a very low capex, very small operation. So we could come back and look at it again. There is a market opportunity, especially in the Kitchen business, but right now I think because we are constantly going in and out of lockdowns, we don’t have the bandwidths to run both. So hope that answers.
Kunal Sharma — Perfect Research — Analyst
Okay.
Operator
Sir, your question is answered?
Kunal Sharma — Perfect Research — Analyst
Actually last one just remained. There is like opportunity we see the inorganic acquisition [Technical Issues]
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
We are not looking at any inorganic acquisitions right now.
Kunal Sharma — Perfect Research — Analyst
Okay. Fair enough. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Ranganathan from Doric Capital. Please go ahead.
Rajesh Ranganathan — Doric Capital — Analyst
Hi, thanks for the opportunity. It’s a tough time. So obviously you are doing the best you can. But could you please give us an update on Chennai project. What is the current thought process around that.
And secondly, we’ve tried different businesses, but within our own parks business [Technical Issues] used the time that we’ve had in terms of downtime to make it better when things open up.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah. So I think for us the downtime is mostly using it for strategizing and trying to improve our businesses when we reopen. And I think that has helped us a lot especially when we reopened during the — in the last quarter. We have also had a fundamental shift in our strategy in terms of how we market our parks to our visitors, so also that has gone through a huge change and we are much more digital-heavy right now, but a lot of that work is still in progress. So it’s still not a finished product. Maybe it will take us another year to change our marketing and customer experience to a fully digital system. So we are still working on this. So those kind of works are going on. We are also revamping some of our offerings in terms of F&B outlets and things like that, so small upgradation works and those kinds of things are going on right now.
Rajesh Ranganathan — Doric Capital — Analyst
So are you saying that, let’s say this 12 months or 18 months that we’ve had is a downtime, there isn’t any significant project in terms of upscaling of employees or [Technical Issues] normally we are not able to do in the running park that we have used to, so that you know you can value [Phonetic] your clients when they walk in next time.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah. So that’s what I said. We are working towards that. I mean, but it’s more like a digital-heavy. We are doing a digital transformation in the company in that sense, but yeah, it’s still early days, it will probably take us a year or two to finish substantial part of it.
Rajesh Ranganathan — Doric Capital — Analyst
And in Chennai, if you don’t mind.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Chennai is, right now it’s on hold, because we will not be able to — we are not able to start work on it. So it has been put on hold for at least till the end of this financial year.
Rajesh Ranganathan — Doric Capital — Analyst
But we have the land with us or is that not yet…
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah. Land and some land development — some basic work is going on, but nothing — we are not building the park assets right now.
Rajesh Ranganathan — Doric Capital — Analyst
Why is that? Is it because of lack of availability of labor or what is it?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah, we don’t have labor. We are not able to move people there. Also we have some outstanding disputes with the government in terms of tax, holidays and things like that, so those kind of things have to be sorted. So we will announce whenever it’s ready, but I don’t see anything happen for the remainder of this year.
Rajesh Ranganathan — Doric Capital — Analyst
Okay. And on this tax dispute, how serious is it, how long is it likely to take to resolve, because that’s one of the growth drivers for you when things open up, right if you are able to [Technical Issues].
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah, so I mean it is that, we offer a tax holiday exemptions from the local body tax in Chennai. I don’t know whether you’re aware, but the Tamil Nadu is the only state which levies an extra tax on ticket. So we will not be able to build a large format park and run it with that tax in place. So we have categorically agreed to the previous government, but now the government has changed. So we’ll have to work again and see how — we don’t know how long it’ll take.
Rajesh Ranganathan — Doric Capital — Analyst
Okay. And on point of view let’s say pre-COVID, we had a certain sales and the certain EBITDA and let’s say things do open up and we reached only 77% in fourth quarter and maybe you can also comment on why when other businesses were able to reach 100% maybe we had some peculiarities why we were not able to, but suppose we do reach 100% at some point, will our EBITDA be similar or better or lower. What do you think.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
It will be better or at least the same as before once the COVID pandemic go. The reason why we had only 77% footfall is because we were not allowed to open every day of the week initially when we opened. Only one month out of the three months that is only in March we — all the three parks were open all days of the week. The other two months, some days we were open, some days we were not open because we had to limit the crowd also, right.
Rajesh Ranganathan — Doric Capital — Analyst
And the —
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Sorry. I think your time is up.
Rajesh Ranganathan — Doric Capital — Analyst
Okay, thanks.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parimal Mithani from Credential Investments. Please go ahead.
Parimal Mithani — Credential Investments — Analyst
Sir, thanks a lot. Hello. Can you hear me?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yes.
Parimal Mithani — Credential Investments — Analyst
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. And this is the first time I am dialing into your call. First, is it safe to assume last year we had the worst year in the company’s history going forward. The second question is, in terms of footfall —
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Sorry. Can you repeat your first question, I couldn’t hear you properly.
Operator
Mr. Mithani, there is a disturbance coming from your line sir.
Parimal Mithani — Credential Investments — Analyst
Now, can you hear me properly ma’am?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah, it’s still disturbed but I can hear you.
Operator
Many disturbance is there. I would request you to ask your questions and then mute your lines, sir.
Parimal Mithani — Credential Investments — Analyst
Yeah. Is it clear now?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah.
Operator
Yes.
Parimal Mithani — Credential Investments — Analyst
Yeah. So is it safe to assume the last year was the worst year in the company’s history in terms of financial performance-wise. Secondly —
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah, it was one of the worst, yeah.
Parimal Mithani — Credential Investments — Analyst
Further, it will be the base [Indecipherable] in terms of the pandemic it was the worst year given that way, right?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah.
Parimal Mithani — Credential Investments — Analyst
And second thing, sir, this footfall of 3.1 lakh, which you achieved in this less time of I think your operations less than three months and given the pandemic restrictions and all that, both India reaching critical vaccination drive, do you see this number to go past your prior expectations also.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Actually we — I think 3.11 lakhs is a pretty good number. In fact, it kind of beat we thought we would achieve also. We had pretty good footfalls in all the three parks. So I think there is a lot of latent demand, people are wanting to go out, but obviously because of the pandemic, there is a lot of restriction, lockdown all those things. So once the lockdowns, restrictions, all those things ease-out assuming that at least 60% of the population gets vaccinated, which you can already see in other countries happening now, I think the demand will be coming back strongly is what we think. And that is what we are seeing from other parks in other countries as well.
Parimal Mithani — Credential Investments — Analyst
[Technical Issues]
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Sorry, I can’t hear you.
Parimal Mithani — Credential Investments — Analyst
What is status of the park. Are they behind lockdown or just partial opening [Multiple Speakers]
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
We are all locked down. All three of our parks are in locked down.
Parimal Mithani — Credential Investments — Analyst
Okay. And so this footfall, was it because of the coupon discounts or anything or it was just a latent demand which was there and people wanted to travel.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
I think it’s because of, mostly because of latent demand, but we also had some discounts and some offerings and things like that, but mostly not discounted because our ARPU is also better than last quarter.
Parimal Mithani — Credential Investments — Analyst
And sir, last question if I am seeing your company for next three, four year in terms of how do you see yourself in terms of the company-wise. I won’t quote you to it, I just want to understand the business somewhat how you plan to [Multiple Speakers]
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah. I think once the pandemic recedes, I think we will slowly get back on to our growth path again, in terms of adding new locations to our portfolio, things like that. We are already working on it, like for example, we have Chennai and we have another project which we have signed in Bhubaneswar for a smaller — like a small version of the park with the government there. But again, because of the pandemic, we’ve not been able to move. We have a couple more opportunities, one from Gujarat and there is another opportunity from Colombo in Sri Lanka as well. We are — we are evaluating all these options and then whenever the time is right, we will start working on it. And also, our existing parts also, we are upgrading them slowly and once we reopen, I think we’ll be able to give visitors a better experience.
Parimal Mithani — Credential Investments — Analyst
Sir, same ticket pricing range or like…
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Sorry, I think you have run out of your question time.
Parimal Mithani — Credential Investments — Analyst
Sir, if you can just accommodate because I’m just logging for a person, and it’s — if you can give us the time, that’s — if you don’t mind, I’ll go ahead. If there is a problem, I’ll log in later.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah, I’ve been told that only two questions per participant.
Parimal Mithani — Credential Investments — Analyst
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Gita Mehta from LHS Ventures. Please go ahead.
Gita Mehta — LHS Ventures — Analyst
Hello.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yes.
Gita Mehta — LHS Ventures — Analyst
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. I only have one question. So recently, Gujarat government announced various incentives such as reduced electricity bills and property tax exemption for various multiplexes. Can we expect something similar for park industry?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
I think the Association of Parks are actively talking to different bodies. But I think Gujarat has always been very pro-industry and the they have — they’ve been waiving some of those things. But I’m not seeing it as a countrywide initiative for other industries also. We are trying — we are hopeful that some kind of exemptions or the tax grace, etc., might happen, but too early to comment.
Gita Mehta — LHS Ventures — Analyst
So can we expect something similar in the other states as well?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
I’m not sure. We’re working on it, but at this point we are not — we can’t comment on it.
Gita Mehta — LHS Ventures — Analyst
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Meet Jagani from PS Associates. Please go ahead.
Meet Jagani — PS Associates — Analyst
Hello. I have one question. How the current initiative of 50% [Indecipherable]. How is the response over there?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
That’s a new offer that we have just given because we are currently locked down and we are not able to open the parks. But we are — we are selling the tickets for a future date. It’s a limited time offer. And I think we have really good response. I think we’ve sold about 7,000-odd tickets in about a week. So it’s not a bad — this thing.
Meet Jagani — PS Associates — Analyst
Okay. And apart Chennai, are we looking at any other location? [Indecipherable] looking at the location, I mean, looking currently?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
We are looking at other states like I told you — I mentioned in the last answer. We are looking at a few opportunities in other states like Gujarat, Orissa and also there we have — we have an opportunity which has come up in Colombo in Sri Lanka as well. So we are evaluating a few opportunities.
Meet Jagani — PS Associates — Analyst
Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Thank you.
Operator
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Nitin Dharmavat from Aurum Capital. Please go ahead.
Nitin Dharmavat — Aurum Capital — Analyst
Yeah. Thank you for the functionality. I just, one question regarding Bhubaneswar, Odisha. The Board has approved for setting up this park. You mentioned that you’ve not worked out details about it. But if something is there in terms of kind of investment that you are looking for, because you mentioned that’s going to be a smaller format. So what is the kind of investment that you are looking for this and what will be the timeline once these things open up?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
It’s very early stage. I mean, we want to do with a very small format one, so it’ll be significantly lower investment compared to our existing parks. And also, for us Orissa seems like a smaller market as well. So we are trying to tailor make something working with the government there to see whether we can do a small park. They have been very supportive. They have actually given us a lot of –they’ve actually been very proactive in terms of helping us with the land and approvals and all those things. So — but once the plans are finalized, we will be — we will update everyone about this. Right now, it’s still on the drawing board.
Nitin Dharmavat — Aurum Capital — Analyst
Okay. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manoj Dua, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Manoj Dua — — Analyst
Good afternoon, sir. So when you look for a new opportunity like Colombo or Gujarat, what are the parameters you look into? What are the conditions you think that can satisfy for opening of new ventures? Thank you.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
We look at a few things. One is the area that is — sufficient catchment area in terms of market size. We also look at whether the business can operate 365 days or is it highly seasonal, depending on weather conditions. We also look at how the government — how proactive the government is in the state or area and how helpful they are. Then we also look at how far or how close are they to our existing project because we don’t want to build two parks which are very close to each other because they may not — they may cannibalize each other. So there are a few parameters like that we look at.
Satheesh Seshadri — Chief Financial Officer
And also infrastructure, sir. Water — electricity connectivity.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Water connectivity — yeah, road connectivity, water, basics like that as well, yeah.
Manoj Dua — — Analyst
Okay. Now, if we see — want to see the Company after five, 10 years, the growth parameters are opening new parks [Indecipherable] maybe opening up resorts in our own parks. If we are not able to open new parks at the pace that we think and which has happened in the past, how far you can see growth from our same parks — can you give us some guidelines because when you talk that [Indecipherable] not able to open new parks. So how far you can grow from our existing parks in future?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
I think our existing parks are still not saturated in terms of footfall. So that’s something that we are looking at very seriously. So, yeah, I mean even if we don’t add new parks, I think there is sufficient headroom for us to grow in our native market. For example, Hyderabad, we still haven’t reached the 1 million footfall. Cochin used to have 1 million plus footfalls and then it has dropped in the last two, three years. So we need to fix that. So I mean, there are — so some of those challenges, we need to address as well. So I mean, definitely there is scope for growth in our home market is what we feel because our parks, even if we have million footfalls, it’s still a very small percentage of the total addressable population of each of those cities.
Manoj Dua — — Analyst
Okay. Thank you, and best of luck.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pawan from Lacuna Capital. Please go ahead.
Pawan — Lacuna Capital — Analyst
Hi. Thanks for taking my question. Most of my questions were answered, but just one additional one is, what’s the capacity — or you just mentioned that for example Hyderabad has 1 million kind of capacity. So what’s the kind of operating capacity that we can think about when we look at the business? Roughly, I think we can accommodate about 5,000 to 6,000 visitors in each of our parks per day. So you multiply that by 366 and you will get the theoretical maximum capacity. But obviously we may not hit that number. Sir, it’s about 8,000 to 10,000 is the park capacity. We worked on a 50% capacity during the pandemic, which is 5,000 for the Bangalore and Kochi park and 4,000 for the Hyderabad park. So we can go up to 8,000 to 10,000 capacity okay. Okay. So, I’m saying that’s not sustainable every day to have that kind of capacity. Every day — it is not sustainable every day. Right. You have more visitors in the weekend versus the week days. So you — on an average output would be about 50%. I would say — I’d say you can take a 6,000 number per day and then you can multiply that with 365, you get the maximum. Okay. Sounds good. And second was, one of the previous participants asked about what do you look for in kind of expansion projects or how do you think about capital allocation. When you’re looking at these growth projects, one of the financial parameters you’re looking for, like, what is the ROEs or those kind of metrics are you looking at? I mean, we don’t look at — I mean ROE calculations I mean are a byproduct of what we have achieved because it’s not something that we — I mean — but we typically want each of our investments to kind of pay back within seven, eight years, that’s the way we look at it. But yeah, I mean, ROE calculation — I think Satheesh may be able to answer this better.
Satheesh Seshadri — Chief Financial Officer
Yeah. We look at the ROCE, we look at the payback and we look at also the DIM. First one is, is there a demand there. And then the business as the — footfall is one thing. And then we look at the ROCE and the payback also on this. But these are all long gestation projects, whatever we have taken till now because the investment size is INR300 crores, INR330 crores for Chennai project, for example. Okay? It has its own curve, okay? When you talk about the Orissa project, the investments could be slightly lesser there. So we look into various factor, but you can’t have ROCE, ROE of the initial years. You build up over the period, you have a better [Indecipherable].
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
I think — yeah, I think it will be harder in the initial years and then will get better as the footfalls improve and the cost of capital…
Pawan — Lacuna Capital — Analyst
So let me rephrase the question — let me rephrase the question. So seven to eight years is payback period, and breakeven you target about three years? Would that be fair to say, like your earlier projects?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah [Indecipherable] for example, we had a breakeven in three years. EBITDA — EBITDA positive.
Pawan — Lacuna Capital — Analyst
Okay. Okay, got it. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anuj from M3 Investment. Please go ahead.
Anuj Sharma — M3 Investment — Analyst
Yeah. Thank you for this opportunity. My first question is, see, the Gujarat opportunity I think has been on anvil for some time, but we have not taken any…
Operator
Sir, there is a disturbance coming from your line. Request you to mute your line so that the management can answer your question.
Anuj Sharma — M3 Investment — Analyst
Yeah. I’ve not just completed my question. Just on Gujarat, any particular reason why we are delaying it or we have too much — our hands are full at the moment? So that’s one — question number one.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah. So, I mean, we have just been talking to them and there has been interest from the Ahmedabad government for us to set up the park. But it’s still early days. We are still on the negotiating table on what to do, how to do it. These things are like that. It takes time for us to finalize on a project.
Anuj Sharma — M3 Investment — Analyst
Sure. All right. My second question is Colombo. Pardon me for my ignorance, but this is — this name I’ve heard for the first time. Is it that we have got an invitation or — any more specifics on the Colombo opportunity?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Once we have — right now, it’s a very new — it’s a new invitation that we’ve got to set up and run a park there. Once we have more clarity on that, we will definitely keep all of you — but I’m just saying — you said it, because that’s the kind of — a lot of people do keep up — keep asking us to invest in new geographies and build parks or take over existing parks. For example, the Colombo opportunity is for us to take over a semi-finished park to complete it and run it. So like that, there are different opportunities which keep coming from time to time. And so we will look at the suitability for our brand and whether it goes with our ethos and then we take a decision.
Satheesh Seshadri — Chief Financial Officer
Yeah, management contracts.
Anuj Sharma — M3 Investment — Analyst
Sorry?
Satheesh Seshadri — Chief Financial Officer
The management contracts.
Anuj Sharma — M3 Investment — Analyst
Sure, sure. And my third and my final question is, we have all three existing parks on a similar model. Bhubaneswar was slightly different in terms of lease plan. But these are the two or three modules we are looking at, or beyond that we are exploring? So management contract is something we have explored, but not ratified till now. But just are these two or three models around or we have something more in our…
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah, I think, mostly will be — we would like to build our own park. That’s the ideal situation. But that is very time consuming and slow in a country like India. So the other, next best would be to take over and run other parks for a management contract. So that also we are exploring. We have a few opportunities. In fact, we have at least four or five opportunities like that in India. And we have this opportunity that’s come from Colombo as well and many other countries. But we are just restricting ourselves to the Indian subcontinent for now.
Anuj Sharma — M3 Investment — Analyst
Okay. So if you permit me, one more. What is the key reason we are being slow in taking off, because I think these opportunities in management contract have been there for some time. Is it the financial consideration or is it our inability to visualize how parks will be. I mean, what is delaying? So I understand one in Bombay which you have clearly said it’s out of consideration. But others, what could be the reasons?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Different parks have different issues because usually when they come to us, maybe it’s a half-finished project, maybe some projects have run out of money, maybe some projects were planned but nobody — never took off. So there are various reasons for why various projects don’t take off properly. So we have to assess it and then see whether we want to jump into it. So we usually take our own time with it because we don’t want to hurry into something like this, because it’s a long-term commitment.
Anuj Sharma — M3 Investment — Analyst
Sure, sure. I really appreciate. Thank you for the answers.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah.
Operator
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Saurabh Arora. Please go ahead.
Saurabh Arora — — Analyst
Good evening, sir. I have a few questions. Number one is, most of the corporate companies have extended work from home culture for their employees and they are saying it a great opportunity for post COVID as well. How do you think this would affect our business in Bangalore and Hyderabad as these are top locations for such corporate companies?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
I think work from home — I think it’s here to stay in some form. Even I’m working from home for the last year or so. I think there is some comfort in that. But at the same time, I think that cannot go on forever. Maybe for a tech related company, it makes more sense to do it, but a company like ours, we will definitely — we have parks and we run them in a physical infrastructure, so remote working may not — but will it — I think it will be better for us because people — it would definitely decongest some of our cities. Traffic might — traffic times will improve, and I think people will find it easier to commute, which is always a good thing for a company like us. Ease of commute is one of the main factors that decide how many people come to our parks.
Saurabh Arora — — Analyst
But employees of corporate companies, private tech companies may be huge customer base for our parks too. If they are not in Bangalore and Hyderabad.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Just because they work from home doesn’t mean that will never go out the house, right?
Saurabh Arora — — Analyst
Yeah, but they will work from other states in their hometowns, say, Rajasthan, Utter Pradesh, Delhi.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
But that is — I mean, that’s not going to be — I mean, I don’t see the populations of our cities going down. As long as our cities are thriving and the populations of our cities are growing, I think we will also be growing.
Saurabh Arora — — Analyst
Okay. And my second question is, in last con calls, you discussed about salary cuts as cost cutting. I want to ask what was the [Indecipherable] in case of Directors, what the remuneration and commissions directors received during FY ’21?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
You will see more of it on the Annual Report, please. Hello?
Saurabh Arora — — Analyst
Sorry, pardon.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Don’t disclose those. You’ll see more of it in the annual reports.
Saurabh Arora — — Analyst
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Rajesh Ranganathan from Doric Capital. Please go ahead.
Rajesh Ranganathan — Doric Capital — Analyst
Yeah. Thanks for this opportunity again. So through this pandemic and even before that, things were slow in India. So we’ve lost some top management, I guess some voluntarily, some otherwise. What’s our plan going ahead in terms of how do we recruit and retain talent given how difficult the industry is right now? I think the difficulty in the industry is there everywhere right now, and I don’t think it’s unique to our industry. I think therefore I would say at least 40%, 50% of the businesses in India or anywhere in the world are suffering right now. So it’s not unique to us. So — and I don’t think it’s — it’s not a perennial problem. It’s going to go away at some point, we don’t know when. So we are just getting ready for that day when we feel like we can open the parks and welcome visitors. So whatever changes and improvements and — improvements to our products and service that we can do, we are doing it now. So that’s the way we look at it. We continue to hire people, especially in the digital and marketing field because we feel that there is — that is the area where there’s maximum change happening as you are all aware. So we continue to hire people. Yeah, so that’s an ongoing process. I don’t think that will be impacted because of the pandemic. Okay. So my second question, you had mentioned a few times already that one of the things you’re focusing on is the digital transformation of the firm. Could you give us some specific examples on what are the most impactful projects on this? Because if you look at, many areas…
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
It’s mostly to do with — I mean, we will start off with something like marketing automation, which I think we need to — which is overdue for us. We need to do that. So we’re working on that, automating our whole marketing system. And consequently what happens with that is also how we interact with our customer in the parks — a lot of that can be digitized; knowing our customer better, like how often is somebody coming to the park, is there an opportunity for me to give offers to him. We are already doing it, but we have just started doing it. So I think in a year or a year and a half, I think we will have that completed. It’s still in a work in progress right now.
Rajesh Ranganathan — Doric Capital — Analyst
So one of the areas, say, globally people who have worked on is something you mentioned in terms of digitally interacting with the visitors when they are in the parks or even when they are [Multiple Speakers]
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
So that is — that’s what I’m saying, yeah. So there are two, three aspects. One is the whole marketing aspect of it. Then the other is the whole customer aspect — customer service or customer interaction part of it that also can be digitized. And also the customer lifecycle, like whether how do — how do we make sure that people come back to us at a certain point, can we give them sweetening deals or how can we stay relevant in their lives even after they come and visit us, and reduce the lag between one visit and the next. So a lot of things are available in that whole realm. Amusement park industry generally has been a little slow even internationally to embrace the whole digital culture because it is expensive to do it in an amusement park because digitizing a park is also an expensive process. So we are looking into that. So — but we will — once the plans are more final, we will be sharing with everyone.
Rajesh Ranganathan — Doric Capital — Analyst
But this doesn’t include digitizing the ride itself, right? You’re not looking at digital rides or digital experiences in terms of…
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
That also — yeah, that is the — yeah, that also will be part of it, for sure, having virtual rides…
Rajesh Ranganathan — Doric Capital — Analyst
But at this stage, you are not able to share anything?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
No, we can’t. I mean, still — we have just started work on that.
Rajesh Ranganathan — Doric Capital — Analyst
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Adhidev Chattopadhyay from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Adhidev Chattopadhyay — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Just a housekeeping question. What is the breakup of ticketing and non-ticketing revenue for the quarter? And on that, on our F&B pricing strategy? How are we looking to get customers to spend more on that [Indecipherable]? Thank you.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
I think this quarter we had about 75-25. 75% was ticket and 25% non-ticket, which is higher than what we used to have in Q4 in previous years. The reason for that is we had a higher percentage of retail footfalls as against group footfalls. Like pre COVID, we used to get a lot of schools and colleges during Jan, February and March, but in this last Jan, February and March, we got mostly retail footballs, people who came for the biggest directly from us and came to the parks. Because of that, they are higher spending people, they are higher — propensity to spend is higher, and that is why our non-ticket revenue is better. I think Satheesh can maybe add something to that.
Satheesh Seshadri — Chief Financial Officer
Yes, sir. I think you’ve covered it very well.
Adhidev Chattopadhyay — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Okay. And as I said, when — since eventually get back to normal, how are we looking at, that if we get back to where it was pre-COVID, a rough breakup? Or is there some strategic shift you see to get the margins up in terms of getting more out of the F&B business?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
I think our strategy is definitely to improve our non-ticket spend because I think non-ticket revenue is something that we can — again, going back to the whole digital transformation part of it. It’s something that goes very well with that. Also, we will be able to sell — up-sell and cross-sell F&B and merchandize to our customers better once we have those opportunities. We are already doing it, but it’s such a very — I mean we are at 75-25, but we want to obviously bring non-ticket revenue to at least about 30% — 30%, 35%.
Adhidev Chattopadhyay — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Okay. And just a second question. When obviously the parks eventually reopen, hopefully pretty soon, do you expect the number of rides you can open, like something similar to the trajectory which happened last year, like the water rides may not be active and they may get active later on?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Yeah. I think — yeah, it’s hard to predict how it will be, but there could be — every district and every state has a different way of handling this. So some states, they will allow you to open the waterpark first. Some states, they don’t allow you to do it. So I think it’s a bit of a mess. But eventually they do allow all the — all aspects of the rides to be opened.
Adhidev Chattopadhyay — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Okay. And if I just I mean, squeeze in a last question on the salaries. [Indecipherable] [0:46:00] shutdown period. So this year, are we now again looking at a fresh round of salary cuts or are we like reinstated the salaries and plan to continue with that?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
We had reinstated salaries whenever we were open and especially open every day and people had to come to work and things like that. But during the lockdown, there is a salary cut again, not as deep as what we did last year, but we are definitely looking at some salary cuts so that we can maintain our cash flows.
Adhidev Chattopadhyay — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Okay.
Satheesh Seshadri — Chief Financial Officer
So there is definitely some cost rationalization, but we don’t anticipate the lockdown period extended like last year. Last year, we had about seven to eight months closed — park closed. We don’t expect that type of a long lockdown on account of the second wave. There will be cost rationalization throughout [Phonetic].
Adhidev Chattopadhyay — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Yeah. So just on that, so I think last year it was around INR4 crores a month, right, was our running cost, if I believe.
Satheesh Seshadri — Chief Financial Officer
Exactly, yeah.
Adhidev Chattopadhyay — ICICI Securities — Analyst
So it would be at similar [Multiple Speakers]
Satheesh Seshadri — Chief Financial Officer
We’ll have a similar level. We’ll have somewhere similar levels we will be having.
Adhidev Chattopadhyay — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Okay. Okay, fine. Yeah, that’s very helpful. That’s it from my side.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manoj Dua, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Manoj Dua — — Analyst
Sir, is it possible, can you have monthly breakdown of sales in this quarter?
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Satheesh, you want to…
Satheesh Seshadri — Chief Financial Officer
No. We give our results quarterly, but what you want to know the footfalls or what exactly you want to know?
Manoj Dua — — Analyst
Everything. I want to understand…
Satheesh Seshadri — Chief Financial Officer
Because these are all — these are all very working figures. Whether you want to go to the details?
Manoj Dua — — Analyst
I actually want to understand the [Multiple Speakers] all parks were open.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
You can send it to him later on or something like that.
Satheesh Seshadri — Chief Financial Officer
Yeah. You can — we can share with you separately.
Manoj Dua — — Analyst
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Adhidev Chattopadhyay from ICICI Securities for closing comments.
Adhidev Chattopadhyay — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Yeah. Thank you, everyone, for joining us on the call today. I’d like to hand it back to the management for their closing remarks.
Arun K. Chittilappilly — Managing Director of Wonderla Amusement Parks & Resort
Thank you, all, for attending the Wonderla Holidays Q4 FY ’21 result update. All of you, please stay safe and take care. And we’ll see you soon. Thank you.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks]