Wonderla Holidays Limited (NSE: WONDERLA) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Jan. 28, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Arun K Chittilappilly — Managing Director
Saji Louiz — Chief Financial Officer
Dheeran Singh Choudhary — Chief Operating Officer
Analysts:
Karan Khanna — Analyst
Himanshu Upadhyay — Analyst
Naman Shah — Analyst
Angad Katdare — Analyst
Prolin Nandu — Analyst
Yashodhan Nerurkar — Analyst
Vedant Bhasin — Analyst
Monish Ghodke — Analyst
Amit Agicha — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Kaustubh Pawaskar — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Wunderla Holidays Limited Q3 and FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by Ambit Capital. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr Karan Kanna from Ambit Capital. Thank you, and over to you, Mr Kana.
Karan Khanna — Analyst
Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Ambit Capital, I would like to welcome you all to Q3 and Nine-Month FY ’25 earnings call for Holidays Limited. From the management we have with us Mr Arun, Managing Director; Mr Sajee Luls, CFO; and Mr, Chief Operating Officer of the company. We would like to now begin the call with opening remarks from the management, following which we will have the forum open for an interactive question-and-answer session. Thank you, and over to you, Arun and. Thank you.
Arun K Chittilappilly — Managing Director
Thank you, Karan. Good afternoon, everyone. This is, Managing HMF and Managing Director of Holidays. We are happy to present the Q3 and Nine-Month FY ’25 financial. We are, first of all, pleased to announce the successful completion of our recent fundraise through a QIP process. We generated a significant interest from marquee investors. We appreciate the trust and confidence shown by the investor community in our growth strategy and long-term vision. This quarter was encouraging, but also challenging for Wanderla, signaling some recovery that we’ve seen in — especially in our Hyderabad park. We have seen the best-ever Q3 for Hyderabad and since about eight years of operations. Our revenue for the quarter was INR121.5 crore, a degrowth of 2% compared to the previous year. The dip in revenues were mainly due to lower turnout in some of the key locations like and Kochin. So our footfall for the quarter stood at 9.18 lakhs. In terms of strategic initiatives, we’ve made significant strides across several key areas. We are on a digital transformation path and recently our website has been revamped and we are also in the process of doing many other initiatives including ticket booking and so this initiative blends in both for both in-park and digital engagement. So we’ve also relaunched our mascot Shiku with a new attraction in Park also will be rolled-out to our other parks. We also hosted some vibrant events such as our — as Wondercon in, Halloween in Bangalore and festive celebrations like Christmas and New Year. These events combined with special promotions have played a key role in maintaining footfall and enhancing overall guest experience. Additionally, we continue to see a rise in online bookings, particularly across our established parks like Kuchi, Bangalore and Hyderabad, reflecting our successful efforts to adapt into a shifting customer preferences and expand our online presence. With our continued focus on growing non-ticket revenue, our customer spend per head has grown by 9% and 12% for Q3 and nine months respectively. On the expansion front, we are excited to share that our Chennai park has slated to begin operations towards the end-of-the next financial year are most likely open — will be open for commercial operations from December. The extension of our resort at Bengaluru is also proceeding at the right direction and we expected to launch this by the beginning of next financial year. All other sustaining capex activities across the parks are progressing as per schedule. We are excited by the lot of opportunity — the tremendous opportunities that lie ahead to broaden our portfolio and strengthen our position in the industry. Our outlook for growth is positive, especially long-term and we are confident of, you know the industry growth, especially in India, which has a young population, et-cetera. With that, I would like to conclude my remarks and hand over to Sajee, our CFO, for a detailed financial analysis.
Saji Louiz — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you, Arun. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining the earnings call for Q3 and nine months period ended FY ’25. I’m happy to provide a comprehensive overview of our financial performance for the quarter. Revenues for the quarter stood at INR121.5 crores compared to INR123.6 crores in the same-period last year, reflecting a year-on-year minor de-growth of 1.7 percentage. Our EBITDA, including other income for the quarter was INR42.2 crore, down by 30.3 percentage on a year-on-year basis. EBITDA margin for the quarter stood at 33.3 percentage. Additionally, our profit-after-tax for the quarter amounted to INR20.3 crore, representing a degrowth of 45.7% compared to the previous year. PAT margins for the quarter stood at 16.1 percentage. Moving to the nine months financial performance, our turnover — our revenue reached INR361.8 crore, down by 5.6 percentage on Y-o-Y basis. EBITDA including other income for the nine months stood at INR140.9 crore, down by 32.8% on Y-o-Y basis. EBITDA margins stood at 37.5 percentage. The profit-after-tax at 98 stood at INR98.3 crore and the margins are at 26.2% for the nine months ended FY ’25. In terms of our average revenue per user, our Q3 FY ’25 stood at 1,272 and for the nine months, it stood at 1,472. Now moving on our footfall metrics for our parks. For the quarter, our Bangalore park recorded a footfall of 2.99 lakhs. Park welcomed about some 2.57 lakh visages. Hyderabad Park achieved a footfall of 3.28 lakhs and then the newly-launched Park recorded a quarterly footfall of about 34,000. For the nine months period, Bangalore at 8.54 lakhs, Kuchin at 6.7 lakhs, Hyderabad at 7.19 and then Bhunesh are at 1.28 lakhs of visitors. Our average room rent at our resort as on for nine months period stood at 5,770, while occupancy stood at 52 percentage. With that, I would like to conclude my remarks and open the floor for Q&A session. Thank you for your attention and continued support.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wish to ask a question may press star and one on their touchdone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets only while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have our first question from the line of Himanshu from Berja Rog PMS. Please go-ahead.
Himanshu Upadhyay
Yeah. Hi, good afternoon. Can you give some idea why the Q3 numbers were — footfall was significantly bad for Bangalore and Kochi? And generally Q3 is the 30% of the footfalls in a year. So some thoughts on that and because in the last conference call, we stated that Diwali and have been very good. So what happened in December or some thoughts on that will be helpful.
Dheeran Singh Choudhary
Yeah, hi. This is here. So what happened in Bangalore was we are a great but if the second-half, which is also critical part in October, there was the sudden unexpected monsoon. In fact, you would have read news about Bangalore being under the flush. So it kind of derailed our entire revenue for two weeks, which kind of caused the dip in Kochin, we saw good growth in our retail footfall, but this was a big year for groups. And unfortunately, due to certain health concerns, there was this whole mentititis issue I was playing in Kochin, a lot of school groups refrained from coming this year to the park. So that’s why Kuchin dip and Kochin also had — the Kerala area also send some groups closer to the Bangalore park. So these were the two large challenges and concerns that caused the dip in and Bangalore.
Himanshu Upadhyay
Okay. And one thing, in, last quarter we were at 93,000 footfall, okay and Q3 again which was a festival, it fell down to 35,000 footfalls. And we are expecting that to do 3 lakh to-4 lakh footfall in first year and we also stated that if we are seeing that footfalls are low, we can offer discounts and have good footfalls as ARPU is still better than what we were expecting. So can you throw some light on what are the situation or what happened in means?
Dheeran Singh Choudhary
And the numbers are not correct. Overall for the first-half of the year was 93,000. But last quarter we had roughly about 2020 — quarter two, we had 20,000 22,000 footfall. So we actually in-quarter three versus quarter two grew our footfall by 50% quarter-on-quarter basis. But the issue, I think, Marie, in weather is one of the issues we had. We had two cyclone events there. And also I think because it’s the first year and we don’t — I mean, we are new in the category in actually in. Most of the water parks that are existing in that area, they are operational mostly during summer only. And so the whole idea of going out to an amusement park during a winter season doesn’t exist. We have to create the category. So I think that these are the two issues that we face in. Mostly we inclement weather like during Christmas also, which would have been a nice — it would have been a nice season for us. There was cyclone in, if you recall. So I think that those are the two issues. I think going-forward, especially from March onwards, I think we should be able to see good footfalls in.
Himanshu Upadhyay
Yeah, okay, because in Hyderabad also, when we launched in the first year we were expecting — we did around INR6 lakhs plus footfall. And here even seems 2 lakh would be our —
Arun K Chittilappilly
We didn’t have the whole year in. I think like the majority of the summer was already over by the time you opened. So it’s not really an ideal time. We just got like one month, I think for some month. So I think summer is the main season in. So March, April, May, June seems to be the biggest footfall driving month-in and we missed most of it. We only got June and then we opened I think on May 25, if I’m not mistaken. So I think going-forward, I think we’ll get that. But I think Q3 also there is a chance for us to get good footfall, but I think we will have to now — this Q3, we couldn’t get because there was a lot of warnings and cyclone warnings and all that. And so when that happens, especially in Orissa, they are prone to cyclone, people don’t go out. So I think that’s the main issue. I think we should be able to get back that in the next year.
Himanshu Upadhyay
And any lessons to learn from this market on nine months since what we have operated for smaller theme parks like where we were we would like to build a park in INR200 crore-plus. So what has been the experience and you think the business model makes still sense?
Dheeran Singh Choudhary
And see, we still haven’t finished one year. I think it’s only been — officially the park was opened in September and we had a soft launch phase from June-to-June to September. So I mean we are — technically we are open only — I mean officially opened from September onwards because the park itself was not fully complete. So I think this financial year — I mean next financial year it will — if you ask me that when we’ll have a full idea of it. So I would say that it is — I mean, I’m too early to say anything. We are still bullish on the market because if you look at our ARPUs and the spends and all that are very-high. So that gives us a lot of confidence that there is — and also if you — I don’t know whether you remember, but when we opened the first 40 days was extremely crowded. In fact, we had to return a lot of people and we couldn’t accommodate all the people that came to the park. So definitely, there is scope to do this. But I think it’s highly seasonal in that market. So we need to work accordingly. So that’s — so-far, that’s the learning. The potential is there, but I think it’s also a highly seasonal market. I mean that tends to happen in a new park, especially in a place like where there are no existing amusement parks. So I think you can expect that.
Himanshu Upadhyay
And one last question. Any progress on new projects or where are we stuck-up with new projects?
Dheeran Singh Choudhary
Now we have capital with the government. So I mean, is it the government’s table. So we are waiting for some kind of closure on the deal. I think we should be able to announce something soon. We will keep you updated. Nothing has changed from our side. We are — we are still — as far as we are concerned, we are going ahead. But I think, of course, we are focusing mostly to kind of finish our Chennai project now. But I think we will announce one — at least we should be able to announce one more location soon. We will keep you posted.
Himanshu Upadhyay
Okay. Thanks. I’ll join back-in the queue.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Naman Shah from Monaj Networth Capital. Please go-ahead.
Naman Shah
Hi, sir. Sir. Just one question from my side. Just wanted to understand on what are we doing to kind of increase our revenue and footfalls in existing parks? Because there we are kind of seeing a lot of decline. So are we doing any incremental capex or to kind of enhance our experience in the existing parks?
Arun K Chittilappilly
Yeah, yeah. So we are doing a lot of incremental capex, especially in the older parks like and Bangalore. We are opening a new attraction — we just opened a new attraction in Kochin end of December, which is our adventures of, right and that will be rolled-out to Bangalore and Hyderabad as well. I think it will be done as we speak. And then we are also launching a large attraction in Bangalore virtual traction, which is already there in Hyderabad, but it’s not there in the other parks. So — and then also we are probably adding some big rights to Bangalore and Kochin as well going-forward because they are all much older park. But we have also incrementally done capex and we are also looking at adding some new restaurants to our older parks. So these things are happening. But the issue — what has happened in the last quarter has nothing to do with that. I think we already — the main issue was inclement weather and some group footfall that got diverted. I mean, we didn’t get the group footfalls and. So these are the two main issues. But if you look at our general footfalls have been growing. So I think that gives us confidence that once the season kind of stabilizes, it should be fine. And Q4 anyway is not a very big quarter for us in terms of footfall. So-far, I think we are flattish. Like I said, we are not expecting growth in this year. But going into the next financial year, we can definitely see growth and that’s how we are looking at it.
Naman Shah
Okay. Okay. Okay. And what led to such — I mean, the footfalls in Hyderabad have been impressive this quarter. Is there any marketing or advertisement spend that led to such an outcome?
Arun K Chittilappilly
No, actually the footfalls growth in Hyderabad has happened mostly from groups, which actually like you know, we’ve not had huge group footfalls in Hyderabad from the beginning. But this year, we’ve been able to crack that. And so I think group footfall has disproportionately increased our Hyderabad footfall. And I think we want to see a similar effect coming in our other markets also. We will — we expect to see that Diran will talk about.
Dheeran Singh Choudhary
It’s also — if you see operationally, it’s only eight years-old. So it’s a newer market and we definitely see a lot more potential. So that’s something that we’ve been actually able to juice out in the last quarter and we continue to stay bullish on Hyderabad being a big growth driver for us in the coming years.
Naman Shah
Right. So how much is — did Group contribute to the revenue.
Dheeran Singh Choudhary
The group footfall was about 42% to 45% of the overall.
Arun K Chittilappilly
But that is annually, but this quarter it will be high quarter.
Dheeran Singh Choudhary
This quarter is about 42% to 45%, which is last year it was at about 36% 37 because groups outgrew general footfall. We’ve been able to increase that this is only for this quarter because it’s usually the quarter when the school picnics happen.
Naman Shah
Okay. Right. And one last question, sir. Just wanted to know the ARPU for Bhugnesh was for this quarter.
Arun K Chittilappilly
For the year basis, it’s about INR1,200 plus.
Naman Shah
Yeah. And for this quarter?
Arun K Chittilappilly
This quarter because it’s like 900 because you get about INR1,030, 1,030 because you get school groups again in also, we’ve been able to almost 45% to 50% of the footfall we got was group groups and groups usually because these are bulk deals, they come at a lesser average ticket price. That’s why the difference in ARPU. But at a year basis so-far, it’s INR1,200.
Naman Shah
Okay. Okay. Thank you. That’s it from my side, sir.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and want to ask questions. The next question is from the line of from Sameeksha Capital. Please go-ahead.
Angad Katdare
Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is regarding we have appointed a Business Head for Tools and Travels in the last quarter is this a new division like just wanted some rationale on the same and if you could throw some light on the same. Thanks.
Arun K Chittilappilly
So we always had a business head for our tourism business. It comes under our overall group’s business. We always had a business head managing the tour operator business. And obviously, now because we are — we scaled, we scale Chennai, we definitely feel that with also the government investing on tourism, we definitely feel in the mid to-long-term, there is a good opportunity to work with large OTA store operators to bring in the incoming FIT tourists across all our locations. So we want to build that business robustly. So that’s something more of a mid-term strategic initiative.
Angad Katdare
Okay. One bookkeeping question on the other expenses have increased to INR49 crores this quarter, substantial jumper. What has driven that?
Saji Louiz
No. There are a couple of things in the expenses front. If you can see the — we have this employee stock option plan released in last year, which is having an expense of about INR2 crores on every quarter. And then apart from that, we spend about INR3 crores, INR3.5 crore for our marketing of almost for a onetime expenses for the video shoots for the Sara activities and all. Apart from these exceptions, there are no more additional spend during the quarter. And then we have made a little bit of staff expansion compared to the last year. We have made about some 67 number of people joined our company when you compare with the previous quarter.
Angad Katdare
Okay. And if I look at the nine months period, our — and this ticket price has fallen by 2%. So for this year, is it safe to say that going-forward, our focus will be on increasing footfall, so that will like —
Arun K Chittilappilly
Yeah. Yeah. So I think, see, the way we look at ticket prices, it’s also a function of demand. So whenever we see demand weakening where maybe because of weather or other issues and we see intent to visit is low, we play with pricing. So we are slowly going towards a dynamic pricing kind of a model that we use discounts and other methods mostly on for online footfall. So that’s why you’ll see ATPs will keep fluctuating a little bit, especially in Q2, Q3 and Q4.
Angad Katdare
Okay. So any comments on the guidance for FY ’26 on the ARPU and?
Arun K Chittilappilly
We don’t have — we don’t give guidance, but we are hoping that Q1 of FY ’26 should be stronger because that’s the first time we will have an entire Q1 for. And also I think, we are still in the kind of a launch — semi launch phase-in the last year. So I think this is the first time I think next financial year, we hopefully the March onwards, we can see numbers pick-up. Other than that, I think our footfalls in the existing other markets like Bangalore, especially and Kochin were lower last year in the summer. So hopefully, we can see a recovery in that also.
Angad Katdare
Sure. Thank you. I’ll get back-in the queue.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and want to ask questions. The next question is from the line of from Public Alternatives. Please go-ahead.
Prolin Nandu
Yeah. Hi, Arun. Thank you for taking my question. You know, just on the footfall side, right, I mean this year has been quite in sense that there have been a lot of weather-related issues, exurgencies, which have probably related to lower footfall. But just wanted to understand that one of the reasons why we embarked upon we raised money was to probably grow aggressively and we could see demand after COVID had shot up, right. Does the experience this year anyway change our long-term outlook in terms of a mature park being able to generate a footfall of, let’s say, 10 lakh per year or that assumption still holds true?
Arun K Chittilappilly
Yeah, yeah. It still hold. It still holds. See, I think increment weather is always going to be an outlier and it’s not going to — it can throw off any number for any kind of discretionary spend, especially wherein you want people to actually travel to a location and experience that any kind of tourist places you know, is susceptible to inclement weather. So that is the one wildcard that we will not be able to predict for. But other than that, I think we are not seeing any kind of — we are not changing our strategy because we feel that there is demand, ARPUs are strong. So I mean in that sense, we are not worried about it. Sure. And also the lack of — lack of other investment parts also. So there are not too many direct comparisons for us. And most of the markets that we operate, we are the number-one player. So I don’t see any other long-term issues.
Prolin Nandu
Sure. So let’s say, if we remove some of these days or one of these some weather-related issues, do we continue to see the trend of, let’s say, pent-up demand, which we had seen post-COVID.
Arun K Chittilappilly
Pent-up demand anymore. I think demand has normalized. So that pent-up demand phenomenon happened only in ’22 and ’23. So now I think we are coming to a more of a normal situation. But I think some of these weather events, if you can remove, I think we’ll see — I mean we can look at a better footfall from that perspective, I think.
Prolin Nandu
Understood. So that 1 million still holds, right? I mean on an average.
Arun K Chittilappilly
No, we want more than that. 1 million is not good enough for us anymore. So.
Prolin Nandu
Great. That’s good to know, good to know. So — and you have made some investments also, right, made some changes also, right? So let’s say in ’26, you mentioned that some of the parks are older, you are adding new rights there. So does it mean that, let’s say, when we enter Q1 of FY ’26, we will have dual levers of having these changes also which we have made and then footfall should also normalize. And because demand comes back, we will be comfortable in getting back to our long-term 5% kind of ARPU or increased. Is that — is that a right way to probably summarize how you look at FY ’26 right now?
Arun K Chittilappilly
Yeah. I think last year, like I said, this financial year has been tough for footfall growth. In fact, our footfalls have degrown and especially the older markets and even in Bangalore, which is our biggest park. So we have done a substantial investment in new rights in all these parks. So I think these will kick-in by the end of this — by March. I think we’ll be opening the latest attraction. We are opening a new attraction in also because, what has happened is when the people come, they all come — seem to come in that very three, four month window, we have huge footfalls coming. And last year what happened was we were not ready and we were not able to accommodate a lot of those visitors. So I think we are doing some corrective action there. So I think for summer, we will be ready with some new attractions even in also. So, Kochin, Bangalore, even Hyderabad, all four parks will have new attractions going into summer. So I think we should be able to accommodate more footfalls and we should be able to-market it more effectively as well.
Prolin Nandu
Sure. So just to understand these new attraction, are these in-place of the older rights or are you using the land that you have which is on our —
Arun K Chittilappilly
Mix-and-match, some are new attractions like for example, the new attraction, is a new attraction, which we didn’t have before. Bangalore, we have discontinued and hold attraction and we are making into a new attraction, a theater attraction.
Prolin Nandu
Okay. Understood. Understood. Understood. And I saw your LinkedIn update as well and you mentioned on this call as well. Am I correct that you are expecting December ’25 to be the date or month-in which your Chinap park will be — will start
Arun K Chittilappilly
December 2025, we are hoping to open the park to public. A soft launch at least, not a full launch, but at least a soft launch will be done by December 2025.
Prolin Nandu
Okay. Okay, okay. And so it’s on — in-line with what you were expecting, right? There have been no delays there.
Arun K Chittilappilly
Were supposed to open in June or July of ’25, but that is delayed to December ’25. That’s the only changed.
Prolin Nandu
Okay. Okay, understood. Understood. And just in terms of the pipeline, right, you mentioned that the ball is maybe not in our coat and it’s at the government’s end. But in terms of our outlook of maybe building the capabilities of you know, maybe starting two to three new parks in a year rather than just one in a year. Is the pipeline in terms of adding new states, add new states showing interest, is that increasing or is that — how should one think about that?
Arun K Chittilappilly
There’s no change there. Is it that they have their own procedural delays and doing this kind of activity. So anytime the government has to release or part with land, there is a lot of procedures. So I think there is some — those delays. I think that is what’s keeping them. But other than that from our side, there is no lack of interest or I mean, the government is also — governments are also being very, very supportive, especially UP government Pradesh. So we are following-up with them and hopefully we’ll have some results. And we’ll update you.
Prolin Nandu
Right. That’s it from my side. I’ll join back the queue. Thanks a lot, Aaron.
Arun K Chittilappilly
Yeah.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of from Ionic Wealth. Please go-ahead.
Yashodhan Nerurkar
Yeah. Hi, thanks for taking my question. So firstly, I wanted to know about the QIP. So after listing, this is the first time you will be raising funds. And I mean, basically have been generating a lot of cash anyway that the last two years if I have to consider it’s almost INR180 INR200 crores. Before that also you are averaging somewhere INR100 crores. So if you have raised the QIP funds through QIP, can you just explain how — and how the funds are going to be used, what is the utilization going to be like? Like and how much span are you going to utilize it?
Arun K Chittilappilly
Because of the QIP fund mostly will be used for Chennai and some of it will be used for our other new projects and some of it will be used for our existing projects like Bangalore. So these are both in Bangalore, Chennai and some new projects. This is how the new — this QIP will be used for that.
Yashodhan Nerurkar
But to be fair to say that
Arun K Chittilappilly
Chennai will be used quickly, Bangalore also will be used within a year it will be finished. And that the general corporate, we have kept some money. So that money could be used for the new projects.
Yashodhan Nerurkar
Right. And I mean, would it be fair to say that more than 50% of the funds raised would be used China or would it be equally spread between
Arun K Chittilappilly
50%.
Yashodhan Nerurkar
50% for Chennai.
Arun K Chittilappilly
Yeah.
Yashodhan Nerurkar
Okay. And I mean this and the previous quarter has seen some sharp rise in employee expenses of the previous year. So that is on account of addition of newer employees for the newer park.
Arun K Chittilappilly
So newer parks and were for example, in the existing parks also, we have added some people because we are — from a three location company, we are becoming a five, six location company. So some extra hands are required. So that’s the —
Yashodhan Nerurkar
And you mentioned you added some 67 employees. I mean, did I get it right or?
Arun K Chittilappilly
Yeah, yeah. I think half of them are on the sales team, right? Yeah. So we are increasing the presence in some of our sales market. So sales and marketing will see some increase in employees.
Yashodhan Nerurkar
Okay. Okay. And just wanted to get a sense on what is your plan. See, I mean, we know that to some extent this is a cyclical business. The footfalls aren’t always going to be rising continuously. But what is your plan as to increase the footfalls on a consistent basis? And again, I mean when you — when I look at the ticket prices, you know there’s a, there’s no there’s a hardcore ticket price and we spend. So already, which one
Arun K Chittilappilly
We are not able to hear you.
Yashodhan Nerurkar
Is it better now. Hello.
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, we have the management disconnected. Please stay connected while we reconnect them ladies and gentlemen, thank you for patiently waiting. We have the management back with us. Over to you, sir.
Arun K Chittilappilly
Yeah. So I lost the last question.
Yashodhan Nerurkar
Can I repeat?
Arun K Chittilappilly
Yeah, please.
Yashodhan Nerurkar
Yeah. So basically, I was just asking this question. I mean, this company in — the business is of a nature where the footfalls are going to be a little cyclical, right? And again, the weather is a factor which on which we don’t have any control. So one, how — like what are your plans over longer-term to increase the footfalls on a little consistent basis? That’s one. And secondly, if I look at the ARPU, that is majorly based on two components. One is the ticketing price and one is the food and beverage. Now food and beverage again wouldn’t be in your control, but again, the ticketing price would be in your control, where you can’t increase the ticket rate sharply where you would see lesser footfalls. But again, I mean, you can dynamically play it around. So what is your overall — you know, how would you make sure that the ticketing revenues are good enough as well as the footfall increases consistently over a period of time?
Arun K Chittilappilly
See, I think the business — any kind of tourism business will always have weather, you know being one of the issues that can create dips and footfalls and that I don’t think we can change. We can do a couple of things. One is to have more geographies where we can — so we can hedge our — we can grow in size and also hedge our bed in terms of weather issues. The other thing is we have more tickets sold online and booked in advance so that we can lock-in footfall. So we are doing both. And if you see our footfall almost more than 50% or 55% of our footfall, general footfall is now pre-booked and online footfall. So that I think is something that we will keep growing. Like I said, we are investing heavily in our sales and marketing so that we are — and also we are also investing in our digital transformation. So all these things will help us to make sure that a lot of our footfalls are pre-booked and days or months in advance, so that we are not dependent on these last-minute cancellations. So that is one strategy. And of course, the other one is to be — geographically in diverse locations, so that one or even if there is implement weather issues, the fault will come from multiple locations. So I think these are the two things that we can do. Yes. And also having newer attractions, which are we have more — especially going to other cities where we’re having more covered areas and things like that. So insulate a little bit from the weather, but we can’t completely eliminate that factor.
Yashodhan Nerurkar
And by any sense, do you keep a tab on the repeat customers or you know-how the same customer is he coming — you do. And any idea if you can share like what percentage of the total footfall would that be?
Arun K Chittilappilly
I think almost 30% 40% of our footfall people who visited us before
Yashodhan Nerurkar
In the same year you’re talking about, right, in the same financial year.
Arun K Chittilappilly
I mean you would have visited at the same year will be less than 10%.
Yashodhan Nerurkar
Okay, okay. Fair enough. Fair enough.
Arun K Chittilappilly
And one more thing that our ARPU is a combination of ATP and SPH. SPHs also we maintain in our parks. So — and they are a stern chain in our paths are managed and operated by.
Yashodhan Nerurkar
Okay.
Arun K Chittilappilly
I mean we also do a lot of interventions to get more revenue out of non-ticket revenue. You can see about 9% and 12% growth is even in Q2, Q3 and nine months period.
Yashodhan Nerurkar
Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. So that’s it from my side. Thank you so much for your answers.
Arun K Chittilappilly
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Vidant Bhashi from Minerva India. Please go-ahead.
Vedant Bhasin
Yeah, hi. Thank you for taking my question. Number-one, if you could just quantify the impact of precipitation in each park, because I think we’ve spoken about the weather events quite a bit. I just wanted to know if you can maybe tell us how much footfall would have been if not for those days lost because of rain.
Arun K Chittilappilly
Hard to quantify, but I mean, if you look at our footfall has degrown by about roughly 14% right in that existing about some 14 percentage and even the smart also say.
Saji Louiz
Also, I think we lost maybe about 30,000, 40,000 people because of that.
Arun K Chittilappilly
So I think if you look at the dip itself is a good indicator of what kind of footfalls we would have lost in that — in those weather events. Mostly weather events is what played again in the last quarter.
Dheeran Singh Choudhary
But to give you a sense, Christmas was a clean weather, good occasion. Our campaigns were successful, we saw double-digit growth in footfalls, right? So when we see that —
Arun K Chittilappilly
But except where there was
Dheeran Singh Choudhary
Park on park, we saw growth of 20 — of double-digits. So when there is a good weather and we’re able to run campaign successfully, we are able to see that we are able to generate demand.
Vedant Bhasin
Got it. So maybe about 20,000 30,000 is what we lost in. And then would you say similar numbers in Kochi and Bangalore.
Arun K Chittilappilly
Kochi, I think we lost more.
Dheeran Singh Choudhary
We lost a lot more because groups in-quarter three plays a big piece. So we would have lost 60,000, 70,000 because of the mentititis issues that was in all schools. So I would think would be a lot more.
Vedant Bhasin
Okay. And Bangalore similar then to coaching
Arun K Chittilappilly
And roughly in both the parts. Each of these parts
Vedant Bhasin
Okay, got it. Thank you. And next, this was a more general question. So Hyderabad, we’ve seen now it’s sort of come to fruition, it’s come to a sort of a stable region where the footfalls are growing. So would you say in general park when you set it up, it would take maybe five-plus years for it to get to such a stage or was it sort of special in Hyderabad?
Arun K Chittilappilly
Depends on the market. Some markets it comes quickly like for example,, we had a — yeah, I mean, I think for to reach a 1 million footfalls, I think it takes about five, six years. Hyderabad is a bit off because after four years of starting, it was shut for two years because of COVID. So it was — again, we had to restart. It had a braid. But yeah, I think a large metro city would take four to five years to get to at least 1 million customers.
Vedant Bhasin
Got it.
Dheeran Singh Choudhary
It will happen a little faster, because we are a much more well-known brand itself.
Vedant Bhasin
Right. Okay. And if you could maybe just give a capex guidance for next FY ’26, FY ’27
Saji Louiz
Personally whatever is as per object as per QAP, which is for our Chennai park and then certain other extension in our extension in our existing like Bangalore, one ride and then the refurbishment — refurbishment of our resort, all those things are already planned as per the QAP. And apart from that, we generally spend about some 10% of my revenue towards the capital expenses as the right expansion or maybe restaurant building and combination of this.
Vedant Bhasin
Okay. So maybe in the INR400 crore to INR500 crore range.
Saji Louiz
You’re talking including the new park and other facilities, yes.
Vedant Bhasin
Yes, yes.
Saji Louiz
Yeah..
Vedant Bhasin
Got it. And one last question I had. So you had mentioned on some earlier calls that it takes about INR300 crores to INR500 crores to set-up a new park or — and it took around INR200 for. So would it be fair to assume that since is leased, about INR200 crores is the cost for setting up just the rides. Is that fair?
Saji Louiz
Yeah. Not the — not the right of things. Yeah. Setting up a park for us in a Tier-2 city, you’re looking at around 200 PR and for large city or 500 PR.
Vedant Bhasin
Okay. And so how much would be exactly the right cost be? So out of this 200, how much do you think was spent on rides?
Arun K Chittilappilly
I would say 60%. 60% will go on rides, 40% will be other things, buildings, restaurants, pathways, other utility, lot of utility sort of thing.
Vedant Bhasin
Okay. So about 120. And this 120, is it mainly imported because I think there was talk sometime back about maybe manufacturing our own rights, some of them as well.
Arun K Chittilappilly
Half of them are made by us or the other half would be imported.
Vedant Bhasin
All right. Got it. Thank you. Thank you so much for answering.
Arun K Chittilappilly
Thank you.
Saji Louiz
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Monish from HDFC Mutual Fund. Please go-ahead.
Monish Ghodke
Hello. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, how much annualized footfall you expect in on a normalized basis.
Arun K Chittilappilly
I think once it kind of fully matures, we are expecting between 5 lakh and 6 lakh, 5 lakh to 6 lakh who can by when you expect it to you know to reach that number in four, five years?
Monish Ghodke
Okay. And sir, once it — I mean at what level it should breakeven, I believe, I mean, 2 lakhs it will break-even 2 or 2.5 lakh, around 2 lakh, 2 lakh. Okay. And that by when you expect to have that kind of footfall, should we happen next year next financial year it will have. Okay. And sir, I believe we are also planning a park in Madhya Pradesh, right? So how much capex are we doing there?
Arun K Chittilappilly
There similar 200 crore kind of size.
Monish Ghodke
So that would also take like 3-4 years to get matured right
Arun K Chittilappilly
Maybe a little faster because slightly bigger city but yeah, it’s hard to predict at this point.
Monish Ghodke
Yeah. But then sir, if I see the payback period of this business, then it comes to like eight to 10 years, right?
Arun K Chittilappilly
Within eight years, I think we are expecting
Saji Louiz
The capital heavy to front-loaded everything. So it will just four to five years for a smaller park, maybe seven, eight years will take for a large park, like even Tier-1 cities and all, it will take some seven to eight years.
Monish Ghodke
Okay. And sir, I know I think you have answered this before. I mean, the kind of de-growth we had — it was because of some weather factors or some specific issue like some virus. But are you seeing any kind of cyclical slowdown or any kind of you know that could overall consumption?
Arun K Chittilappilly
Small impact of that also is there?
Dheeran Singh Choudhary
Yeah. I think clearly the macro-environment factors, a lot of other consumer companies have also stated out about the slowdown in discretionary spend. So I think that also implies to us.
Monish Ghodke
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Arun K Chittilappilly
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to one per participant. Should you have a follow-up questions, we request you to rejoin the queue. We have our next question from the line of Amit Agicha from Edgi Hawa. Please go-ahead.
Amit Agicha
Good afternoon, sir. Am I audible? Yeah. First and foremost, congratulations to the entire team at Holidays on exceptional achievement of being India’s most visited amusement park. Most of my questions have been answered like I was just wanted to know like what are the total number of employees the company has and the new park which is coming up in MP, where-is the location?
Arun K Chittilappilly
We have 800 to 850 people are there on roads and then we have about some 1,800 people will be there on-off roads as well. As of now. But it will grow and when we have a new park, every park will have at least 700 to 800 new employees. The new park in Madhypradesh, we are planning between Madhya Prade sorry, between Indor and Bhopal we are there. Can you hear us? I think we lost him.
Operator
As the response, we’ll move on to the next question. The next question is from the line of Prabudesi from Mary Assets. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
So first on the footfalls. We have around 23.7 lakh footfalls for nine months. And sir, just mentioned that we expect footfalls to be flat for Q5 — Q4 for FY ’25. So is it that Q4 we see a good amount of growth in footfalls, your view on the same?
Arun K Chittilappilly
Yeah. No, what I mean by flat is like quarter-on-quarter it should be flattish. We are not expecting much growth in Q4 because Q4 is anyway is not a much of a weakish quarter and where any growth in footfall usually happens in Q1 or Q3 for us usually.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay. All right. And also on the margin front, for nine months, whatever we have margin of around 37% for EBITDA margin. So for the full-year and for the next one or two years, what do we expect, how the margins to move ahead?
Arun K Chittilappilly
It depends on when you are opening up the, generally there will be expenses, which is not corresponding to the revenue what they generate. So which can impact our EBITDA for a temporary purpose — temporary period. This can be about 35% to 40% if you historically observe the EBITDA margin of the company. So you can see about pre-COVID, which was about some 35% to 40% range. And after COVID, after adding another two years, post-COVID, it’s about some 40%. So it’s always positive — 35% to 40% could be the expectation I feel.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay. All right. So that’s it from my side. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Pawaskar from ICICI Securities. Please go-ahead.
Kaustubh Pawaskar
Yeah, good afternoon, sir. Thanks for giving me the opportunity. Sir, my question is on the non-ticketing revenues. So this quarter we have seen Bangalore Cochi non-ticket revenues going by high-single-digit. So should we expect consistent kind of a growth in non-ticketing revenues in this range only high-single-digit to low double-digit considering the fact that you are putting lot of investment to increase the contribution of non-ticketing revenues.
Arun K Chittilappilly
Yeah, I think a lot of investments are made to continue to build-on our non-ticketing revenue. If you look at our last four years, CAGR also we’ve been at about 11% and we continue — we are bullish on driving our ARPU through our non-ticketing revenue. So we expect moving forward also anywhere between 9% to 11%, we want to build our sales.
Kaustubh Pawaskar
Okay. And just one long-term continuing to this question. Non-ticketing revenues generally have better margins than what the ticketing revenues?
Arun K Chittilappilly
Almost the same, 50% margin
Kaustubh Pawaskar
Okay. It is almost the same. Okay. Because I just wanted to understand whether mix if you once the mix improves, whether that will also add-on to your margins going ahead? Just wanted to understand that part.
Arun K Chittilappilly
It depends on our product assortment, our menu mix. So there are a lot of permutation combinations, but usually it’s similar. So we keep learning and trying to improvise to see how we can optimize it. But so-far, it’s similar.
Kaustubh Pawaskar
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Angat from Sameeksha Capital. Please go-ahead.
Angad Katdare
Thanks again for the opportunity. Sir, my follow-up question is on the — you mentioned that the new path may be announced in the near-future. Will we need more capital the same?
Arun K Chittilappilly
No, no, we do not need any more capital. It will be all the future thing will be done through a combination of internal accruals and maybe some debt.
Angad Katdare
Okay. And how much debt are we comfortable on debt-to-equity?
Saji Louiz
It’s about some 30% of the total spend, what what we are thinking from the debt.
Angad Katdare
Got it. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of from Equity Masters. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, thank you for the opportunity. My question is that this Chennai park has been shifted by a few months. So has there also been some escalation in the capex that was estimated for the park? And if so, what is the expected capex?
Arun K Chittilappilly
No, we don’t expect any escalation in the course because we already placed the order. This is only a slight delay because of some weather and other conditions. So we are not expecting any increase in the quarterly increment weather that is part of the delay. I mean, all our costs are off only. There is not much.
Dheeran Singh Choudhary
Maybe some small change here if that can happen, but nothing major.
Unidentified Participant
So this cost is around INR5 billion, am I correct?
Arun K Chittilappilly
Yeah, INR515 crores.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, INR515 crores. Okay. And sir, for the Chennai park, what kind of timeline do you foresee for the park to breakeven? Like I think for Orissa, you mentioned FY ’26, but
Arun K Chittilappilly
Within the first full-year of operations, I think we should be able to break-even.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. And is any timeline for MP Park
Arun K Chittilappilly
Of launch period and then after that I think we should be able to break.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And is there any timeline for the MP Park like when can we expect it to come out?
Arun K Chittilappilly
We don’t know the timeline. We will keep you updated once we have some.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, thank you and all the best.
Arun K Chittilappilly
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that will be the last question for today. And I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Arun K Chittilappilly
Thank you all for joining Holidays Q3 FY ’25 results update. We continue to be bullish on the sector and we hope to take the brand to more cities and give better experience to all our guests. I hope to see you in the next call. Thank you again
Operator
Thank you. On behalf of Ambit Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines