Wonderla Holidays Limited (NSE: WONDERLA) Q2 2025 Earnings Call dated Nov. 06, 2024
Corporate Participants:
Arun Chittilappilly — Managing Director
Saji Louiz — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Adhidev Chattopadhyay — Analyst
Shivam Agarwal — Analyst
TVK Vivek Kumar — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Prolin Bharat Nandu — Analyst
Parimal Mithani — Analyst
Shivam Agarwal — Analyst
Nirav Savai — Analyst
Vedant Bhasin — Analyst
Bharatnando — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Wonderla Holidays Limited, Q2 FY ’25 Results Call, hosted by ICICI Securities. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Adhidev Chattopadhyay from the ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you sir.
Adhidev Chattopadhyay — Analyst
Yeah. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of ICICI Securities, I’d like to welcome everyone today on the Wonderla Holidays Limited Q2 FY ’25 Results Call. From the management, we have with us Mr. Arun Chittilappilly, the Managing Director; and Mr. Saji K Louiz, the Chief Financial Officer.
I’d now like to hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks. Over to you. Thank you.
Arun Chittilappilly — Managing Director
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. This is Arun Chittilappilly, MD of Wonderla Holidays. I welcome all of you to discuss our Q2 and H1 FY ’25 Earnings. I’m joined by our CFO, Mr. Saji, and our COO, Mr. Dheeran. I hope everyone had a chance to go through our results and investor presentation. This quarter was marked by some operational and environment challenges that’s typical of Q2, and has affected some of our performance. Unpredictable weather events and heavy rainfall and landslides etc., don’t bode well for our visitors. And turnout in several key locations were lower than expected. Despite the said challenges, we managed to maintain a decent performance through proper marketing intervention.
Our footfall declined by 9% to 4.5 lakh, and leading to a 13% drop in income which stood at INR71.23 crores compared to Q2 FY ’24. During the quarter we also hosted a bunch of musical events, celebrations, themed occasions etc., and giving people more reasons to visit our park. We also hosted a standout event called Adiolympics at our Kochi Park during the quarter. As part of our continuous investment strategy, we also added multiple rides at our Hyderabad Park at a cost of approximately INR15 crore, and was open to public by the Telugu Superstar Naga Chaitanya. We are optimistic that these enhancements will positively improve the customer experience in the long run.
Another major highlight for us in this quarter was the official launch of our park in Bhubaneswar by the Honorable Deputy Chief Minister of Odisha. This launch has extended our reach to Eastern India and enhanced our pan-India presence. While the consumers demonstrated cautious discretionary spending, our strategy of increasing non-ticket revenue and focusing on high value visitors has helped to maintain our profitability.
Our [Technical Issue] of FY ’25, it stood at INR1,597. Additionally, we could see some behavior in shift from offline to online bookings across all our parks, and compared to the same period of the last year, reflecting our ongoing efforts to strengthen our online engagement. I’m also pleased to share that the Chennai project construction is progressing well and expecting to be operational by end of Q3 FY ’26. Beyond this, we are also continuously exploring new areas to expand our footprint into.
Aligned with our expansion plan, our Board has approved fundraising through a qualified institutional placement or private placement up to INR800 crore supporting our projects for the next seven years — seven to eight years. As we look into the future, we maintain a positive outlook for growth. We are confident that our ongoing investments in enhancing guest experiences, embracing innovation and expanding our offerings will drive sustainable growth and strengthen our marketing position. We remain committed to delivering world class experiences, adapting to evolving trends and seizing new opportunities in India’s expanding amusement park and entertainment industry.
With this, I would like to conclude my remarks and I hand over to our CFO, Saji, for detailed analysis of our financial performance. Thank you.
Saji Louiz — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you, Arun. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for being here for Q2 and H1 FY ’25 earnings call. I am pleased to present the brief overview of our financial performance for the quarter. Our revenue from operation for Q2 FY ’25 stood at INR67.4 crores as compared to INR75.2 crores reflecting a de-growth of 12%[Phonetic] Y-o-Y.
EBITDA including other income for the quarter stood at INR2.8 crores down by 90% Y-o-Y. EBITDA margins for the quarter stood at 4%. The de-growth in EBITDA was about INR24 crores, which is predominantly attributable to reduction in our revenue by INR8 crores, increase in our marketing spend by INR6 crores, and expansions of employee base by adding approximately 210 people across location and corporate office, with an incremental wage build of INR5 crores. Our adjusted EBITDA net of ESOP expenses of INR1.98 crore for the quarter stood at INR4.7 crore down by 82% Y-o-Y. Profit after tax for the quarter stood at INR14.7 crore as compared to INR13.5 crore, a growth of 9% Y-o-Y and PAT margin for the quarter stood at 21%.
Now, moving on to half year performance. Our revenue from operation for the half year FY ’25 stood at INR240.3 crore as compared to INR259.8 crore reflecting a degrowth of 8% on Y-o-Y basis. EBITDA including other income for the quarter stood at INR98.7 crore down by 34% Y-o-Y. EBITDA margins for the quarter stood at 40%. The degrowth in EBITDA was about INR50 crore, which is predominantly attributable to reduction in our revenue by INR19 crores, increase in our marketing spend by INR11 crore, and expansion of employee base by adding approximately 210 people across location and corporate office, with an incremental wage build of INR10 crore.
Our adjusted EBITDA, net of ESOP expenses of INR4.15 crore for the quarter stood at INR106.5 crore down by 29% Y-o-Y. Profit after tax for the quarter stood at INR78 crore as compared to INR98 crore, a de-growth of 20% Y-o-Y and PAT margins for the quarter stood at 31%.
Now, moving to park-wise footfalls, in Q2 FY ’25, our park — our Bangalore park, we saw a footfall of 1.96 lakh. Kochi park received a footfall of 1.39 lakh. Hyderabad 0.92 lakh, and Bhubaneshwar 0.24 lakhs. In H1 FY ’25, the Bangalore recorded a footfall of 5.54 lakhs, Kochi with 4.14 lakhs, Hyderabad with 3.91 lakhs and then Bhubaneswar with 0.93 lakhs.
With this, I conclude my speech and open the forum for Q&A session. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. [Operator Instructions] The first question comes down the line of Shivam from Equitree Capital. Please go ahead.
Shivam Agarwal
Hello, sir. Am I audible?
Operator
Yes, sir, you are. Please go ahead.
Shivam Agarwal
Thank you so much for taking my question sir. Sir, I have couple of questions. First, regarding the fundraise. So since we are doing the fundraise INR800 crore all from equity, my question is, why we are not doing like somewhat of debt, support of equity as we are like from internal accrual we are generating INR200 crore of cash. So, why is this all equity?
Arun Chittilappilly
No, we are not looking at all equity. We will be taking on debt also. Based on what we outlay in terms of our future plans, if we have to build two or three or four parks in the future, we have a total CapEx of roughly INR1,500 crores to INR2,000 crores. And we are proposing to raise only INR500 crores to INR800 crores out of that through equity. The rest there will be a combination of debt and then internal accruals. So, that’s how we are planning it. Sir — but sir, are we looking on the asset-light model park coming from it? Yes. Both asset-light, but Tier 1 cities, obviously we’ll do bigger investment and sometimes it may not be asset-light, because it depends on what kind of land parcels we finally agree to work with.
Shivam Agarwal
Okay sir. So this INR800 crore we are raising for this — because sir, our asset-light model, our park costs around INR200 crores, so here whole park we are like planning we are raising this INR800 crore?
Arun Chittilappilly
No, I mean if we have to build a — large parks, it’s going to cost us — one park will cost us between INR700 crores to INR800 crores, especially if you’re in a city like Delhi or Bombay. So it depends on the kind of parks that we finally build.
Shivam Agarwal
Okay, Sir. So [Speech Overlap]
Arun Chittilappilly
As we say like Indore or Mohali, we will do something within under INR200 crores.
Shivam Agarwal
Okay. So you mentioned a big — that INR800 crores that could be sufficient for like coming five to seven years?
Arun Chittilappilly
Correct.
Shivam Agarwal
So that’s — that was my base question was it — like for coming back to seven years, we are not going to raise anything any like from debt for equity. So why we are diluting that much of equity, that’s my base question was.
Arun Chittilappilly
We have not decided the quantum of equity that we will dilute. It depends on what we get — see, we are still — I mean, it’s still early days. We have not really decided like the — I mean, it could be anywhere between INR500 crores to INR800 crores.
Shivam Agarwal
Okay, so it’s not — if added to INR800 crores, it will hold from equity that we see next year[Phonetic][00:12:20]
Arun Chittilappilly
Yeah, yeah. The final numbers are not — it’s not finalized. [Speech Overlap]
Shivam Agarwal
Yeah. Sorry. And sir, my second question for Saji sir. Sir, there is one direct tax adjustment of INR24 crores in this quarter, the DTA, INR24 crores. So what was that —
Arun Chittilappilly
Your voice is breaking. I’m not able to hear you properly.
Shivam Agarwal
Hello? Sir, my voice is audible? Sir, in financials, there is a INR24 crore — Hello?
Operator
Yes, now you’re audible.
Shivam Agarwal
Yeah. Sir, in financial, in this quarter financials there is a INR24 crore direct tax adjustment there. So, I just want to know the base of that.
Saji Louiz
No, this is basically the deferred tax adjustments. So previously we had recorded a deferred tax when we did a revaluation of our land. So, now after this current budget, there is a reduction in the capital gain tax from 20% to 12.5%. Accordingly, the deferred tax also reworked and then adjusted as on 30th of September which amounts to about some INR24 crores.
Shivam Agarwal
Okay, understood, understood. Cool, sir. I’ll come in the queue again. Thank you.
Arun Chittilappilly
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Vivek Kumar from Bestpals Research & Advisory LLP. Please go ahead.
TVK Vivek Kumar
Am I audible?
Operator
Yes.
TVK Vivek Kumar
So. Hi, Arun ji. The first question is on — because you are raising QIP, how many parks and — like the size of parks, like is it Noida, is it Mumbai or Madhya Pradesh, because Gujarat, Punjab, you’ve gone and done MoU with Madhya Pradesh. So which parks? And in five years, let’s say, in your growth plan minimum how many more parks apart from the, let’s say, if I conclude include Chennai and Bhubaneswar to be done by next year, how many new parks can I assume in the worst case will be there three parks or another five parks will be there in the next five years, apart from this five?
Arun Chittilappilly
It could be between three and five.
TVK Vivek Kumar
It will be large parks. It will be Noida kind of —
Arun Chittilappilly
Excluding Chennai.
TVK Vivek Kumar
Excluding Chennai, it will be three to five parks. But it will be large parks or small parks like Indore or it will be Noida kind of park or both?
Arun Chittilappilly
That we are still — definitely be big parks also. We are not doing only small parks. We’ll be doing big parks also.
TVK Vivek Kumar
But QIP will be — or Ahmedabad. So yeah. Sorry. Go ahead, sir.
Arun Chittilappilly
Yeah, yeah. So that is what. I mean, I’m telling the final — again the exact numbers are not frozen because the project itself is not frozen yet. But once it’s frozen, we’ll definitely intimate all of you.
TVK Vivek Kumar
So QIP will be done right. So this will be done.
Arun Chittilappilly
Yeah, yeah.
TVK Vivek Kumar
So second question is normally in terms of the business model I’m talking about, Sir, second question is normally as in terms of the business model I’m talking about, footfall — continuous raise in footfall seems to be a challenge. And you have introduced these events and these musical nights and all these things. So can you throw more like, let’s say, the last park is Hyderabad which you opened in the last four, five, six years just pre-COVID, really is it meeting your expectations or what — if there are challenges, what are the kind of challenges you’re meeting to get footfall?
Arun Chittilappilly
We are getting almost 45% EBITDA margin from Hyderabad. If you exclude COVID years, Hyderabad is only five years old. So it’s still not as mature as the other two parks that we have. So still is giving very good footfalls and revenue. So I think there is still growth possible from Hyderabad.
TVK Vivek Kumar
So if I can ask like this, okay, given another five, six years, what in your —
Arun Chittilappilly
But I mean, the quarter, I mean the rain and all that we can’t predict. And obviously, anything to do with rain, floods, and/or heat wave and all that, obviously will affect any kind of discretionary spending where people have to get out of the house, right? So that we can’t predict. But the rest of it, I think we are more or less confident that it will work because it’s already been proven in four cities — I mean, three cities, fourth city we’ve just opened, I mean — so yeah, we are reasonably confident that it will work in all Tier 1 and Tier 2 cities.
TVK Vivek Kumar
So just trying to — I’m not talking about this quarter. In general, I just want — if I have to model, let’s say, Bangalore park, which you think is enough mature, what kind of footfall growth you will aim in Bangalore over the next five years? Just — and what factors do you think will drive footfalls across any given —
Arun Chittilappilly
Right now, it is hard to predict. But I think we can expect low single-digit growth in Bangalore in percentage terms. And ARPU growth you can expect between 5% to 8% per annum kind of thing you can take conservatively.
TVK Vivek Kumar
But you are not seeing footfall growth to be a challenge over the long run, in general given our business?
Arun Chittilappilly
If you look at our CAGR growth for the last 10 years, you will see consistently it keeps growing. Of course, there will be dips in between. But I mean, there will be bumps also.
TVK Vivek Kumar
So any timeline by which QIP will be done, Arun ji?
Arun Chittilappilly
Hopefully within — before the end of this financial year.
TVK Vivek Kumar
Okay. Thanks, Arun ji. Thanks for all the answers.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Sahil Bora from NNMS Association[Phonetic]. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, sir. Good afternoon. You mentioned an increase in online bookings. What specific strategies have you implemented to enhance online engagement? And what results have you seen so far? Hello?
Arun Chittilappilly
Compared to last year, so we were able see about some 48%, 50% of growth in online alone. This is mainly because of various digital spending, initiatives and other things we are doing through our marketing department.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. A follow-up would be besides ticket sales, what are your strategies for increasing non-ticket revenue and what impact do you expect this to have on overall financial performance?
Arun Chittilappilly
Non-ticket revenue, if you could see that about some 10% to 15% hike is there in the current half year. And even the ARPU is also grown by 12% if you compare with the March number — March 2024 numbers. So which can have a positive impact overall on our ARPU over a period of time.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, got it. Thank you so much. All the best.
Arun Chittilappilly
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kruttika from Sharekhan by BNP Paribas[Phonetic]. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Good afternoon, sir. A couple of questions from my end. First would be the demand during the festive season. So there are vacations and during this time, how was the demand across the parks? If you can help us on that?
Arun Chittilappilly
The vacation time was in the first quarter, I mean April and May. So because of certain issues like El Nino and then water problems which we already indicated in our Q1 earnings call. So there is a loss of footfall in the month of April and then till mid of May. Now things has improved post to that. And then now presently the Q3 will be our school season or maybe the group season. So we are just confident enough to perform well in Q3 as well, Q3, across all our parks.
Unidentified Participant
Yes sir. By the festive season, I meant during the Diwali season in this Q3. And so accordingly, how are you expecting H2 for the footfalls specifically related to Diwali season? How was the footfalls in the Diwali season?
Arun Chittilappilly
It was good. Diwali season was good. Dussehra and Diwali both the festival seasons were good.
Unidentified Participant
So — okay. All right. And so now with respect to continuing on footfalls, so earlier we had mentioned that FY ’26 we will see mature park — theme footfall growth of around 5% to 6%. So do we still maintain that or do we need to change any guidance?
Arun Chittilappilly
That’s what the regular practice. If the matured park will give anywhere between 3% to 5% of footfall growth and then pricing reach of maybe equal to the inflation rate in the country. So that is what we follow with respect to the matured park.
Unidentified Participant
All right. Okay. And with respect to the Odisha park, so for the first half, I think we have done around 93 lakhs of footfall. So for the full year, what would be — how do we see that going towards the full year?
Arun Chittilappilly
So, you are expecting about 3 lakh to 4 lakh of footfall in the full year of operation. But we are a new to — new entrant to this particular region. So we need to wait and see the impact by end of this year. Last year, tends to be a little unpredictable. Especially what usually happens is your peak seasons get very crowded and your weak seasons will be very low crowded because we are still a new player. It’s only been three months since we opened in Bhubaneswar. But overall I think for the year we should, like I said — like Saji said, we should close between 3 lakh and 4 lakh visitors. Also, we are — this is a new market for us, so there’s a lot of learning that we also have to do in terms of marketing and sales, promotion, things like that. So it takes a little bit of time. But I think overall, I think we are okay with it. We know that there is demand and it’s still — we are kind of — very definitely a new offering in that area for sure. So I think that that gives us a lot of confidence that we can get the footfall that we want. And ARPU also has been pretty strong. So that also gives — in fact, it’s better than what we expected. So I think we should be able to — in case footfalls are low, we can always offer more discounts and get higher footfalls. So those things we are working on. And I think after one year is over, we can give you a more correct picture because it’s still too early to kind of give you a strong opinion on this.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. All right. That’s it from my side. Thank you.
Arun Chittilappilly
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] And the next question comes from the line of Prolin Bharat Nandu from Edelweiss Public Alternatives. Please go ahead.
Prolin Bharat Nandu
Yeah, thanks team for giving me this opportunity. So couple of questions, Arun, right? Now that the board has approved a QIP. Just, I mean, if I’m not wrong, this is the first time which will be — where we will be raising equity fund right, over our history in some times, or maybe we must have done in the past, but not in the last six to seven years at least exactly. So just wanted to understand that, what is it that has pushed us to in terms of growing the — or I mean, pushing the growth pedal very hard this time around? Is it that the environment or the interaction that you have with states are a lot more conducive than they have been in the past? And having said that, do you think that the future expansion will go more in a way your Orissa expansion has happened wherein, there was a single window and state was very, very supportive versus Chennai, where we had to probably, get some regulatory compliance before we started expansion. So can you just help us —
Arun Chittilappilly
Yeah, I would say that it will be like a mix of both. We will work on a couple of projects where there is a significant government support, but we will also have to work without that as well in some states because this varies between state to state. We are already in talks with multiple state governments. So we are hopeful that we can do one or two more projects like how we did in Orissa. But other locations, especially Tier 1 cities, we will have to do in different fashion. So we will keep you updated on whenever we sign something or when there is clarity on this.
Prolin Bharat Nandu
Sure. But Arun, the larger question, I mean, why QIP at this time, right — I mean, if you can — is it that we are seeing more spend, people more wanting to visit more and more parks, states being more conducive? So just a thought process —
Arun Chittilappilly
I think there is a lot of — see last two years, honestly, we have done better than what we thought. With three parks, we did INR500 crore revenue, right? So that gives us a lot of confidence that there is a lot of potential in the industry for us to grow, especially Tier 1, and Tier 2 is also something that we are quite bullish about, especially after our experience in Orissa. If you are able to build a park in under 16 months for a full fledged park, if we are able to do for less than INR200 crores, I think that is a remarkable achievement, and we want to capitalize on those kind of opportunities. Because every year that we wait, the cost of building a small park or a big park just goes up by at least 5%, 10%. So that I think — these are some of the factors. And I think this is the right time to kind of go a little more aggressive than what we have done in the past. It’s both. I mean both the government support and the fact that people are willing to spend more on this. To add to this point, if you see the industry size as well, because if it is growing from INR11,000 crore to about some INR25,000 crore in next four, five years as per some of the industry reports, which is showing a CAGR of about some 10% to 11%, so we also would like to participate and get a major share from that particular industry growth.
Unidentified Participant
So point taken. Thank you for that. But Arun, just to double-click on this further. While Orissa was completed with a INR2,000 crore — sorry, INR200 crores cost in 16 months. But when you talk about a park which will cost you at around let’s say INR600 crores, INR700 crores and we are open to that as well right, especially in Tier 1 cities, that will take a fairly longer period of time. And if I look at your gross block, it’s somewhere close to INR1,100 crores, INR1,200 crores. So we are in a way adding 60%, 70% to our gross block in terms of our capital employed. So are we confident that we will be able to finish the park of larger size of around like say INR600 crores, INR700 crores in, let’s say, 2.5, 3 years’ time? I mean, is that a fair way to probably think about it? And Tier 1 cities also given that the higher real estate cost and a much larger CapEx required that also have enough opportunities to open the park and get to our unit economics that we typically get in any new parks?
Arun Chittilappilly
Yeah, yeah. I mean, honestly, Tier 1 cities are more lucrative. Only thing is obviously the investment is going to be higher. So that is why we are raising money, right? I mean, to do smaller parks, like you said, we don’t really need to do — raise money, we can manage it without that. But when we have to do a Tier 1 city and then we have to do — we have to spend on building something and do multiple projects simultaneously, that is when we need funding. If we were to do one by one, I don’t think we need to raise money. It’s because we are doing back-to-back and that is the reason why we are looking at it.
Prolin Bharat Nandu
Understood. And just last point on the internal capacity, right? Correct me if I’m wrong, in the past call you have mentioned that in terms of our capacity to work on multiple parks simultaneously, we can do it for — at around — we can build three blocks at the same point of time, right? Is that correct? Is that how we have built capacity?
Arun Chittilappilly
Yeah, two to three — two we can easily do. Three also is possible. But I think we are still building that capability because we need a large team to work on each project. Each of our parks needs construction time of at least 18 months. It’s a 50-acre parcel of land. At least, 1,000 people have to work on site every day for 18 months for it to complete. So these are large projects. So, we also need a good team to handle it because the quality of construction and all that is also very, very crucial because safety is involved. Also, we have to make a lot of the rides ourselves. So a lot of complexities like that are involved. So that is why I think we need to look at a strong team as well. And we are working on that as well.
Prolin Bharat Nandu
Understood. Can I ask one more question if that’s fine?
Arun Chittilappilly
Yeah, sure. Okay.
Prolin Bharat Nandu
Yeah. So just on the demand slowdown, right, reduction in footfall, last quarter, you highlighted that there might be some weakness in this whole revenge kind of purchases or revenge kind of experience. This quarter, you specifically called out one-off kind of events, right, like rainfall and all. So is it that probably from whatever you see in Diwali and Dussehra, we are back to our trajectory, which we had seen in FY ’23 and FY ’24, in terms of footfall growth?
Arun Chittilappilly
See, this year, like I said, we had two years of blockbuster growth because of post-COVID exuberance or whatever you want to call it. So this year I think people are kind of coming back to a new normal. And also there are all these unpredictable weather events that are also happening. So because of that, I think we are seeing this footfall decline. This is normal actually in our business because if you look at our past history also, you will see one or two years of growth and then you will see one or two years of flattish this thing and then it jumps. So it doesn’t go linearly. But over a large like two or three or four years, you will see a CAGR growth in footfalls and revenue what we have done historically. And we are not seeing anything that tells us that will not happen again because we are still seeing strong — people who are coming, they are willing to spend and they are spending more than what we think they will spend. So those are all good signs. And even in the new markets like Orissa, our ARPUs are in fact much closer to the big park than what we thought. So these are all good signs. So we are still bullish on this and it should be fine.
Prolin Bharat Nandu
Great. That’s it from my side. Thanks a lot and all the best, Arun. Thank you.
Arun Chittilappilly
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parimal Mithani from Credential Investments. Please go-ahead.
Parimal Mithani
Hello?
Operator
Sir, you are you audible? Please go ahead.
Parimal Mithani
Can you hear me?
Arun Chittilappilly
Yes.
Operator
Yes, sir, we can hear you.
Parimal Mithani
Yeah. I just wanted to know why this aggressiveness in terms of opening parks and raising cash because we see traditionally over the last 10 years you have been very conservative in terms of taking assignment in terms of parks. If you can explain that would be much better. And how do you see for next five years because what I gather from the call that you —
Arun Chittilappilly
We explained that in the last question.
Parimal Mithani
So is it —
Arun Chittilappilly
I just explained that. Basically we are looking to — we are looking to grow a little more aggressively than before because of I think the market is conducive to that. There is a lot of demand for our kind of product. People are willing to spend more, ARPUs are higher, governments are more receipt to this kind of investment. In fact, I think the new tourism policy, tourism itself is going to be part of industry I think from a Government of India standpoint. So I think getting approvals all those things will get — are getting easier. So I think it’s a good time for us to invest.
Parimal Mithani
And sir, this will be mix of debt and equity or equity more from?
Arun Chittilappilly
I have already answered this question. It will be a combination of equity, debt and internal accrual.
Parimal Mithani
Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you.[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Shivam from Equitree Capital. Please go-ahead. MR. Shivam, you may go ahead with your question.
Shivam Agarwal
Sir, am I audible?
Operator
Audible.
Shivam Agarwal
Sir, just a follow up question. Since we have opened our Bhubaneswar park right now like one quarter back and we are opening Chennai park in ’26 and we are also looking for five park in coming five years. So I’m — my question is on margin side, that when the Bhubaneswar park will go on a normal pace, the Chennai park expense are[Phonetic] going to come. Then after that Chennai Park will go on normal pace, our new park expense are going to[Phonetic] come. So the margins wise, how we are seeing in future?
Arun Chittilappilly
No, historically, if you see our margins, so the EBITDA margins for the past 10 years and the trend, if you see before this COVID pent-up demand, it was about 40% of EBITDA margins were there. And then post-COVID because of the pent-up demand and then 40% growth in footfalls and all, our margins also increased to about some 40% — 50%, 55% which is quite normal. And then presently, we are building the team at a corporate office level as well to manage the parks. Earlier we had only three parks. Now we have four parks. Now we are adding parks on each of these tiers. Then we need people also to manage the park. So then we are just building the team at a corporate office level. And if you see our wage bill also, we would have — we already recruited about some 130 people apart from the Bhubaneswar park to manage the corporate level management of all the parks. That’s why the margin swinging is happening. And apart from that, we spend about some INR3 crores, INR3.5 crores for the Bhubaneswar Park lounge. So whenever we were adding new parks, temporarily there will be a change in the EBITDA margins. But over a period of time, it will stabilize within the historical trend. That’s what we see.
Shivam Agarwal
Sir, that’s what my question was. You mentioned that 40%, 45% we are doing in EBITDA and the temporary margin is going to hit as you said. But how much — how long the temporary — the temporary days were there. Because it continues — in coming five years, you will want to open one park every year. And this will take time to normalize. But the expense will go on a charge expense upfront. So I’m asking the margin — what your margin expectation for coming five years? Since like taking into account of all the parks we are opening, like we will want to do the 40%, 45% margin also? That’s what.
Arun Chittilappilly
No, corporate level, we already completed most of the recruitments. Apart from the almost like 90%, we have already completed the recruitments and then the team building activities and all. So now it’s only thing is like that you add parks and then only for that particular park we need to add certain people. So it will not create so much of problem maybe from second and third year for a new park. So there could be some 1% or 2% shrinkage from the average EBITDA margin we used to get in the earlier days.
Shivam Agarwal
Okay. So — okay, Understood. Understood. Thank you. That’s all from my side.
Arun Chittilappilly
Yeah. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Vivek Kumar from Bestpals Research and Advisory LLP. Please go ahead.
TVK Vivek Kumar
Sir, am I audible, sir?
Operator
Yes, you are. Please.
Arun Chittilappilly
Yes.
TVK Vivek Kumar
Hi, Arun. Arun, are there any locations that you have zeroed in, that we will definitely do Noida and Mumbai or we’ll definitely do these two and rest two, three can be different or nothing like this, everything is in work in progress as of now?
Arun Chittilappilly
See, we have zeroed in about four or five locations, like I said before. I think the exact order in which we will do it we don’t know yet because it depends on which approval comes first. I think we will share it with you whenever we have the details.
TVK Vivek Kumar
I’m not asking about the order, but which cities like you will definitely go ahead?
Arun Chittilappilly
Yes, yes.
TVK Vivek Kumar
So. Noida, is something that you’ll definitely go, Noida and Mumbai or there’s nothing like that?
Arun Chittilappilly
Yeah, Noida, Indore, and some of those locations we are definitely keen to do.
TVK Vivek Kumar
Thanks, Arun. Thanks, all the best.
Arun Chittilappilly
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhinava, an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Am I audible?
Operator
Yes, sir. you are.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, I want to know like if there will be a re-evaluation of land going to be done before QIP?
Arun Chittilappilly
No. No such plans.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. So any reason like that will increase the current valuation of the company, right?
Saji Louiz
No, that is not necessary to just build the value in our books of accounts. That we already did it in the — at the time of transformation — transferring from the old IndAS, I mean, from the Indian GAAP to the IndAS time. So where we recorded about some INR400 crores of revision in the land value. So we don’t want to do that valuation as of now.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Thank you.
Arun Chittilappilly
Does that answer your question, Mr. Abhinava?
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, yeah. That answers my question. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Nirav Savai from Abakkus AMC. Please go ahead.
Nirav Savai
Hi, thanks for the opportunity. My question was on the land which is unutilized right now from the existing three parks. Are there any plan to utilize it in next two, three years? And what would be the purpose? Would it be hotels? Would it be extension of amusement parks? Any thoughts on that?
Arun Chittilappilly
See, these are land we’ve bought because it’s with a long-term view. Because later on buying land once we start a project is almost impossible. Yes, we’ll definitely use all this property. We have maybe between 30% to 40% of land unutilized in most of our projects. Not all, some of them have more. So yeah, we want to keep it like that. And because later on buying the land becomes almost impossible.
Nirav Savai
So two of the parks have been more than 10 years old. So anything which we have thought about the extension of amusement parks in next two, three years or you will wait for the right time?
Arun Chittilappilly
Yeah. We’re expanding all — actually not only — all of our parks are expanding right now.
Nirav Savai
Okay. So no plans to build any hotels or anything different from what we are doing right now?
Arun Chittilappilly
If there is something, we will definitely keep you posted. Right now we are just looking at geographical expansion.
Nirav Savai
And another question was on this what you had indicated previously that whatever expansion we do in future is going to be with the state government and long-term lease and we would not be buying land. So this holds for the expansion which we have highlighted Mumbai or Noida or Indore, that continues or is there any change in the thought?
Arun Chittilappilly
Yeah, yeah, it continues, continues.
Nirav Savai
So INR1,500 crore 2,000 crore CapEx will be all on long-term leases of land and doesn’t include any land cost?
Arun Chittilappilly
Yeah. As of now we are not looking. And wherever possible, we will not buy land. But if land is available and it’s — I mean, we are not averse to buying land because if the lease rental and the cost of land is similar we might as well buy it. Depends on either — state to state, it varies. So it’s hard to predict that. But wherever possible we would like to keep the CapEx low and do the lease.
Nirav Savai
Right. Okay, that’s it from my side. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vedant from Minerva Assets. Please go ahead.
Vedant Bhasin
Hi, am I audible?
Operator
Yes, sir, you are.
Vedant Bhasin
Yeah. I have a question and I apologize if it’s a repetition because I joined slightly late. But it’s more of a book-keeping question. Can you please if possible explain the deferred tax credit that we took this time? Has there been any like offloading of assets or since the policy has changed?
Saji Louiz
No, there is no policy change. When we did the revaluation of the land, when we migrated from the Indian GAAP to IndAS, we recognized the deferred tax and then kept it in our books which was about some — I think some INR70 crore, INR75 crores which was sitting in our balance sheet, if you could observe it. And then presently after this budget, the capital gain tax rate shifted from 20% to 12.5% without indexation. So this has been created as a deferred tax for getting a future tax benefit when you sell the land, that is an assumption activity deferred tax are worked out. Now presently, the tax rate has changed. So automatically the benefit what you get when you sell the land automatically will come down. Accordingly, this has been revalued. So there is a INR24 crore downward revision in this particular position. So from INR70 crores, INR75 crores to reach up to some INR50 crore — INR50 crore odd. So that’s why they just come as a beneficial in our P&L account.
Vedant Bhasin
Okay. Got it. Thank you.
Arun Chittilappilly
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Next question comes along the line of Prolin Bharat Nandu from Edelweiss Public Alternatives. Please go ahead.
Prolin Bharat Nandu
Yeah, thanks again for giving me this opportunity. Two more questions from my side. Arun, so in future expansion, how do we think about a park with and without resort, right? I mean, does a park with resort help us gaining more footfall? Because then it becomes like a more destination kind of a thing. What is our thought process on expansion of parks and a resort accompanying it?
Arun Chittilappilly
Of all the large parks that we do, obviously, we can do — even the small parks, even in Bhubaneswar, actually we can do a resort. It depends on the footfalls and the kind of demand that we see, I think every park is different, I think — but we are definitely thinking about building resort as part of the park experience as well. In fact, every time we design a park, we always leave a space for a resort. So I think definitely part of our plan for most of our projects.
Prolin Bharat Nandu
Okay. But are you suggesting that now we will probably build a resort at the same time when we build a park or you will still want that —
Arun Chittilappilly
No, no. We will not do that. We obviously wait for the park to mature a little bit and then build a resort. We will not do it in the beginning.
Prolin Bharat Nandu
Sure. Understood. Understood. And are we still averse to, I mean, buying a park or buying any other asset which is available or have we changed our view there?
Arun Chittilappilly
If there is a good asset available at a decent valuation, we will do it. But our parks are unique. So we don’t find that nobody else builds parks like the way we build. So very difficult to — you end up paying a lot more for something and it’s not something that we want. I mean, you pay a fair — you pay market rate and all those things and it doesn’t really — financially it doesn’t make sense. If it makes sense, of course, we will look into that.
Prolin Bharat Nandu
But have you evaluated anything — any of the transactions which have happened in the last couple of years where some of our competitors have probably bought and have we evaluated and passed on?
Arun Chittilappilly
(Speech Overlap) And we have actually said no to most of it.
Prolin Bharat Nandu
Fair point. Okay, Arun. And last point would be on non-ticketing revenue, right? In the past, you have highlighted some of the ways in which you want to increase that, right? So in terms of the optimal miss, right, between ticket revenue and non-ticket revenue, where are we, and where can we go over, let’s say, three to five period time — five year period time?
Saji Louiz
So we are at some 75/25 ratio between ticket and non-ticket revenue. So our aim is to make it about some 60/40 in the long run.
Prolin Bharat Nandu
Right. And can you give us a few drivers as to what will take it there? I mean what is it that we can do to increase 25% to 40%?
Saji Louiz
So we need to — two things are there. In non-ticket revenue, we have the F&B plus the merchandise. So what we need to — the offerings we need to always review on a regular basis and to provide the more branded items and then the variety, the choice we need to give to all the guests. That is with respect to the Merck[Phonetic]. And then with respect to our F&B things, we need to keep developing new — curate new menus and offerings should be diversified across the parks which will help us to stay abreast and then people will be spending more on the non-ticket revenue. And another method is like that, tying it up with the park entry ticket so that we can just sell more and then people also get to value for money while they are visiting the parks.
Bharatnando
Sure. Very clear. Thank you. That’s it from my side. Thank you so much.
Arun Chittilappilly
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. As there are no further questions from participants, I would now like to hand the conference over to management from Wonderla Limited for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Arun Chittilappilly
Thanks for joining our Q2 FY ’25 conference call. We hope to — we are to bullish continue our performance and expand our footprint to new locations. So these are some of the core strategies that we are working on. We hope to see you in the next conference call. Thank you.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks]