Tips Music Limited (NSE: TIPSMUSIC) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated Apr. 24, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Kumar Taurani — Executive Chairman
Hari Nair — Chief Executive Officer
Girish Taurani — Executive Director and Chief Operating Officer of Music
Sushant Dalmia — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Harssh Shah — Analyst
Sagar Jethwani — Analyst
Saket Mehrotra — Analyst
Ravi Naredi — Analyst
Kavish Parekh — Analyst
Jyoti Singh — Analyst
Garvit Goyal — Analyst
Abhijeet Sengupta — Analyst
Pallavi Deshpande — Analyst
Ben Smith — Analyst
Aditi Nawal — Analyst
Karan Galaiya — Analyst
Siddharth Purohit — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Jayesh Shah — Analyst
Vaibhav Muley — Analyst
Yash Poddar — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Foreign Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Tips Music Limited Q4 and FY25 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode. And there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation. Conclude, should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then on your touch tuned phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Ayushi Gupta. Thank you. And over to you, ma’am.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I welcome you to the Q4 and FY25 earnings conference call for Tips Music Limited to discuss this quarter’s performance. We have from the management, Mr. Kumar Torani, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Girish Tarani, Executive Director, Mr. Hari Nair, Chief Executive Officer and Mr. Sushant Dalmia, Chief Financial Officer. Before we proceed with the call, I would like to mention that some of the statements made in this today’s call may be forward looking in nature and may involve risk and uncertainties. For more details, kindly refer to the investor presentation and other filings that can be found on the company’s website. Without further ado, I would like to hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks. And then we will open the floor for Q and A. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Kumar Taurani — Executive Chairman
Thank you. Good morning everyone and welcome to the Q4FY25 earnings call. Octaves Music Ltd. By 25 has truly been a landmark year for us. Our CFO Sushant bought brought to light an interesting financial fact which I want to share with you. In FY23 our revenue was INR Indian Rupees 187 crores. And now in FY 2025 our profit is Indian Rupees 167 crores. So after every two, two and a half years. He also informs me that Tips Music is one of the few listed companies in India to have seen this kind of a strong financial growth. With God’s grace and your support, we hope to set new records. We have distributed Indian Rupees 136crores in FY 2025 in form of buybacks and dividends. Moving forward, PIPs will always focus on acquiring and delivering high quality music content. For financial year 2026, we plan to invest in the range of 25 to 28% of our revenue in new content acquisition. With that, I Now invite our CEO Mr. Hari Nair to share his thoughts. Over to you, Hari.
Hari Nair — Chief Executive Officer
Thank you sir. Good morning everyone. I am happy to state that we have delivered a 29% growth in revenue and 31% 31% growth in PAT for the year 2025. The growth in our revenue has been across digital and non digital segments. We have seen a healthy consumption of our content across YouTube, Spotify, Meta, Amazon, Apple, Ghana, Sawn, Snapchat public performance and witnessed new partnership deals via our newly created brands division. In Q4, we announced an extension of our deal with Sony music publishing adding YouTube as a platform for international publishing exploitation. Going ahead, we are committed to a strong growth across platforms driven by our catalog and new content acquisition from films and independent music. I will now request Girish to share insights on the content and digital business. Thank you everyone.
Girish Taurani — Executive Director and Chief Operating Officer of Music
Thank you, Hari. Good morning everybody. In Q4, we saw strong traction across platforms both from new releases and our catalog. We released 105 new songs in FY25 including 37 film songs and 68 non film songs. This year our focus has been more on delivering quality content over quantity. Two songs from the film Harihara Veera Mallu Telugu film released in Q4 crossed over 50 million views on YouTube. Our catalogs continue to perform well too. The song Taroko Maubats Ambar Se from Shaadi Karke Bhazgi movie which was released in 2006 became a viral sensation in Q4FY25 with over 9 million reels created and 2 billion views on Instagram. Another classic, Badal Gai Dunya from the film Andol movie which was released in 1995, saw more than 100 million YouTube views in FY25 alone. This validates the quality of our catalog we hold. Additionally, we now have 117 million subscribers on YouTube with a cumulative aggregate growth of 22% over the last three years. Now I will hand over the call to Sushant who will take you through the company’s financial performance. Thank you.
Sushant Dalmia — Chief Financial Officer
Thanks, Girish. Welcome to the Q4FY25 earnings call. I am pleased to share the financial highlights of this quarter reflecting strong performance of the company. Our revenue for the quarter amounted to rupees 78.5 crores resulting in yuu growth of 24%. The content cost during the quarter increased by 25% on a yyy basis as we had huge releases in regional languages such as Telugu and Punjabi. Secondly, please note that employee expenses during the quarter includes exratia provision of approximately rupees one crore and a variable pay provision of rupees seventy lakhs. While other expenses includes a provision for doubtful death amounting to rupees 2.5 crores which is done on a conservative basis. Factoring the above, operating margins came in at 4.47percent while PAT for the quarter was at 31crores resulting in a YY growth of 19%. During FY25. The company has declared a cumulative interim dividend of Rupees 7 per share and a buyback for non promoter shareholders amounting to rupees 46.6 crore. Which brings the payout ratio for FY25 to around 82%. With this I conclude my opening remarks and open the floor for Q and A.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on their touch tone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press Star and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have our first question from the line of Harsh Shah from Dalal and Brooka. Please go ahead.
Harssh Shah
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Few questions from my side. So firstly on the revenue part, right. So could you quantify the amount that we have received from Warner in FY25?
Kumar Taurani
Okay. So whatever want to do business, we account that in the business. And I think Warner must be in the range of say around 25 to around 25% maybe of
Harssh Shah
My full year revenue.
Kumar Taurani
Yeah, full year revenue.
Harssh Shah
Okay. So that would be around 70 odd crores. 60 odd crores.
Kumar Taurani
Yeah. Must be.
Harssh Shah
So then a follow up on that. So if I look at my six monthly balance sheet with receipt and compare it to the full year balance sheet, it seems that the collection From Warner in H2 has been a bit lower on the lower side as compared to H1. So. Any specific reason for that?
Kumar Taurani
No. It’s depending upon many things. Sometimes we have a few deals in advance or payments coming late. So this happens. You can’t compare my our business as a quarter to quarter basis. Maybe Sushant, you can clarify further.
Sushant Dalmia
So harsh. Let’s say there would be few deals which you did in Q4, let’s say be SMP or TikTok. There would be some advances coming in from that. And let’s say one a deal. As you are aware, we booked the revenue basis, the consumption report. And let’s say what Kumarji has said that it is in the range of around 25% of our revenue of the overall revenue.
Harssh Shah
Okay. And secondly, if I kind of get a ballpark figure in terms of what would have been our growth in the YouTube revenue. So our assumption basically. I do correct me if I’m wrong. Our assumption says that the growth for the full year in YouTube would have been around 14 to 15%. Is that correct or are we. I mean if you could give some color on that front.
Sushant Dalmia
Yeah, Sushant. So let’s say hash on YouTube revenue. It would be in line with what the company growth rate is. And we don’t provide any individual breakup of the.
Kumar Taurani
Also please. We can’t give this information because it’s a competitive world. So we can’t give you a client wise breakup. So please excuse us for that.
Harssh Shah
Yeah, no worries. And last question from my side so basis your opening commentary. You said that the content cost for next year would be around 25 to 28% of our revenue. So is the assumption correct that the absolute amount could be in the range of around 95 to 120 odd crores in terms of content acquisition?
Kumar Taurani
Yes, we are targeting that.
Harssh Shah
Yeah, sure. That is on my side. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Sagar Jetwani from Philip Capital. Please go ahead.
Sagar Jethwani
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Can you help me with the amount of this doubtful debts included in the other expenses?
Sushant Dalmia
It is around 2.5 crores which we have.
Sagar Jethwani
And what was the reason for sim?
Sushant Dalmia
So couple of things in this list. There was certain old content advances which were more than three years. So we have provided we had done a provision on a conservative basis. And second, there was a loan given also to one of our landlords which was outstanding for more than three years. So we have provided it also on a conservative basis.
Sagar Jethwani
Is there any need for the further provision going further?
Sushant Dalmia
No, no, no.
Sagar Jethwani
Okay. So other expenses would iron out, right going ahead.
Sushant Dalmia
Yes, yes, that’s true.
Sagar Jethwani
Okay. And second question is on see as per the last four years trend in Q4 quarter your content cost is typically highest and Therefore the margin Q4 is lowest. So was the logic for the content cost being highest in Q4?
Kumar Taurani
See, whatever is not in our control, it’s a as and when producers gives us a track and tells us a release date, we have to release the content. So that is that happens.
Sagar Jethwani
Okay. Okay. Thanks for this explanation. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Saket Mehro Mehrotra from Tusk Investments. Please go ahead.
Saket Mehrotra
Thank you. Great set of numbers. Just wanted to understand what’s our guidance and what’s our outlook for the next year and how are we looking at it? Is it consistent across what we’ve been talking about for the last few years?
Kumar Taurani
See now next year as you all know the industry is growing by 15, 20%. And as our commitment we will definitely expect we will achieve 30, 30% as we all the time for last few years. And because we have a lot of new releases coming up and there is a lot of deals already signed, we still target we will achieve that 30, 30%. And plus our 90s repertoire is really doing well. If you see this year as well. And plus this year we have a stronger new releases so we will quite hopeful we will achieve that number. 30, 30%.
Saket Mehrotra
Okay. So we are confident of our 30% growth guidance for the next year as well, right? That’s what you’re saying?
Kumar Taurani
Yes.
Saket Mehrotra
Great. Also you know you’ve been mentioning about this flow of premium coming through very sharply and maybe Hariji, even you can comment on this. How are we seeing that landscape evolving? Are we getting the benefit of these increased paid subscriptions on Spotify, YouTube? How does that landscape look like?
Hari Nair
I think. Sorry, sir. Yeah. What? No. So every year on year basis the paid subscriptions are increasing. If you see the platforms like Spotify, they’re putting in more restrictions and they are pushing the consumers towards paid model. So overall it’s very promising and a positive thing for the entire industry. That’s all I can say right now.
Saket Mehrotra
Okay. We’re looking at these collection societies. Is that still a growth engine for us? Has that space consolidated further or is it going to be similar to what we’ve seen in the last few years?
Hari Nair
So what we have done is our publishing deal with SMP is looking very promising and we expect a lot of growth coming in from that. And yeah, IPRs and other societies are continuously growing in India thanks to the consumption that happens in India.
Saket Mehrotra
Okay, thank you. Thank you so much.
Operator
Yep, thank you. Hello. Yes, he’s connected.
Kumar Taurani
Yeah, Saket. You know worldwide total streams happen is around 7 billion streams happen. USA alone do 1.27 1.45 trillion streams. And we India we did, in 2020 we did half billion and last we did 1 billion or sorry, 1 trillion. So there were a lot of scope there to increase our brilliance streams in trillions and plus revenue also. I think that’s a very, very big thing for Indian industry. For our music business which we expect we will have a very good business for next four to five years.
Saket Mehrotra
Okay. Yeah. I mean that’s what we are betting on. And thanks, thanks for that insight. I don’t have any other questions. Thank you.
Kumar Taurani
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Ravi Naredi from Naredi Investments. Please go ahead.
Ravi Naredi
Thank you. Taraniji, as usual your fantastic result. Our profit margin for whole year is 53.6% while in quarter four it is 39%. So can you guide margin projection for financial year 26 onwards.
Kumar Taurani
See as I told you earlier also please don’t look at. Look us at the quarter to quarter basis. Please see us on a yearly basis. You have achieved our 31% growth in plan. And this we are keeping that number 30%. We are targeting ourselves for 30% top rank. 30% bottom line. We will grow. So that is our target. And we are working hard towards that. Acquiring new releases, new content. Our 90s repertoire doing really well. All the platforms we are touchwood doing well. So that’s our target for this coming year also.
Ravi Naredi
Sir or second Badal Gai Dunya. These songs again famous. So what is the reason or the first thing happened in past also
Kumar Taurani
See this happens. Somebody likes the song and he just made a reel or something and then suddenly it catches on. So these things happen over business. As I told you, our repertoire, 90s repertoire from 88 till 2020, whatever we have acquired is really doing so well. We. You can count as best selling catalog today. So that’s a. That’s the reason. And we can pick up anytime, right?
Ravi Naredi
Hello. Yeah. Yeah. Sir, you show global music label revenue only 2%. So what is music level at global level? Can you describe this?
Sushant Dalmia
So Raviji, let’s say. We are saying India share in the global buy is around 2%. And globally, let’s say the music label is around $29 billion.
Ravi Naredi
Right. So this is. What is this Music label.
Sushant Dalmia
Music label in the music companies. Globally. Let’s say the bigger ones and the smaller ones all put together.
Ravi Naredi
So you mean to say India will grow definitely in comparison to 29 billion. Right.
Sushant Dalmia
So the overall. In terms of overall volume wise India has a much larger share. But it’s only 2% that will grow substantially given that subscription is now picking up in India. That’s the underlying method.
Ravi Naredi
Okay. Okay. Okay. And one more thing. We bought less song in this year 7 34, 43. While we paid 71 crore in last year. We bought 733 song and paid 56 crore. So can we treat this now? The song cost is costly or what is this?
Kumar Taurani
See, we are acquiring films and we are focusing on a quality content. As I said earlier in earlier also we will be releasing less and less quantity. These are the old songs we have. We have acquired which we are releasing. But going forward we. We are targeting to release hundred 125 songs and. But we will invest 25 to 28% of our top line. That is our updated thinking. You should do that for quality over quantity.
Ravi Naredi
Right? Right. Right. And what the last. What about the Bollywood scene currently going on?
Kumar Taurani
Yeah, it’s happening. It’s a. We are looking for a good music. And whenever we have an opportunity, we acquire good, good films, good music.
Ravi Naredi
Okay. So Rani sir, thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Kavish Parikh from BNK Securities. Please go ahead.
Kavish Parekh
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. I have a few questions. So firstly on growth, while you have managed to end the year with 29% YUI growth, this also included benefits to the tune of about 12 crores in the first half on account of Wink Music excluding the same growth was about 24%. So I understand that we’ve mentioned that you still stick to your 30% growth guidance. What exactly will be driving this growth? So is it solely so See in terms of deals, your numbers from the Warner deal are already in the base short format platforms moving to consumption. Linked models is at least a couple of years away. Catalog music which is about 85% of our top line is growing at 1579%. So is it solely the new deals that we source that will contribute to this growth? What really gives you the confidence on this aspiration?
Kumar Taurani
See, my content is really doing well. And short content also giving us good moneys. Streaming is happening. So overall same drivers but not a major change. And content plus this year though we have a lot of good new releases. So I think we will achieve whatever we are saying. And as far as Wink is concerned, see earlier years we don’t have any. On the contrary, if you see Wink, we have suffered big time for six, seven years. We are fighting with them. And ultimately we got settled with 12 crores. What we have declared earlier. So earlier we have not recognized that somewhere we have to also take that into an account. But if you detect that then Even I think 24% is also good. I don’t feel it’s bad. So what? As you want, you can calculate. That’s not a
Kavish Parekh
No. No. I mean, I understand that that 24 is also a fairly healthy number. My only question was this ramp up from this 24% to 30% with your Warner numbers already being in the base. But understood. I think it will largely be driven by new content that we acquire. Quality. More quality content coming out and us acquiring that.
Kumar Taurani
Yes,
Kavish Parekh
Understood. And secondly, could you explain the working capital movements in this fiscal. So does it pertain to timing differences in receipt of advances from Warner? And that the amounts were received in maybe April this time, which is why they are not reflecting in FY25 something different from last year? Anything that. That you would like to highlight?
Kumar Taurani
We have received one installment in March, I feel, and another one we are going to receive in October. So we are receiving whatever commitment was that that’s happening.
Kavish Parekh
So. Okay. So this dip in cfo, the reported cfo, that is on account of this very Warner deal.
Sushant Dalmia
But on this Warner deal, what Kumarji said is one tranche is expected in October. So that’s why you see that when you compare it with last year, you see that dip. Otherwise there are no other dips on the cash flows.
Kavish Parekh
So in FY24, the amounts were received. The advances were received in March or So in. In March 24 or March or April 24.
Sushant Dalmia
So let’s say the first trans. We received at the end of March 24.
Kavish Parekh
That is a part of your FY24 numbers. And the second branch, which.
Sushant Dalmia
That’s right.
Kavish Parekh
And the second branch, it came in April 25.
Sushant Dalmia
So one branch, the second tranche was divided into two parts. So let’s say one came in. Let’s say April 20. Right. And this is why it was not affecting in March will come in October
Kavish Parekh
Under it, was it not March? Had it been in March, I think numbers would have reflected in RFY25 reported numbers itself.
Sushant Dalmia
Yes.
Kavish Parekh
Understood. Understood. Thanks a lot.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to take questions from all participants in the conference, please restrict yourself to two questions per participant. Should you have a follow up question, we request you to rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Jyoti Singh from Arihan Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Jyoti Singh
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Like audible. No. Yeah. Sorry. Thank you for the opportunity, sir. My question is on the vertical side like we are doing a lot of thing but are we open for the podcasting also going forward? Any visibility on that side?
Kumar Taurani
Actually we don’t have any immediate plans. We are focusing on music. Music is a big business. We don’t have but image. If there is any opportunity or we see we have to necessary go for that to make. We can do that. It’s not itself. It’s a one more thing we can do. But I feel music business is a better than this podcast. Podcast is a one time listening. If you, if you’ve seen that podcast, it’s a long, long podcast. You even don’t listen entire podcast. So we feel music business is better. So we focus our major focuses on that.
Jyoti Singh
Okay. Like in the opening comment we mentioned on the 200 reels and all on the song side. So are any efforts to improve monetization on the meta side and what kind of revenue we are seeing? I know because of the competition we are not able to discuss on the number part. But at least if you can give us little visibility on the meta monetization, how it is happening and what kind of visibility we are seeing going forward.
Kumar Taurani
Yeah, I always mention 3, 3, 4 things which can really give give us a boost or a way. We depend on them. One is absolutely streaming and all that subscription business. We are very, very hopeful it’s going to increase. Number two is that this reels and all this if TikTok settles in us so it will be coming India also. This short, short content will also get us a huge revenues. And we are seeing the difference. You must be knowing. I think one year back we have not we were not giving our content Instagram but last year we added Instagram also in the Warner deal. And we are really getting good, good revenues from that service. And we are very open. It will be very huge for us. And number three is public performance that events happening big business in intel we are getting from their licensing. Plus we have given the Sony publishing deal has happened for us. The publishing also giving us good revenues. So I’m quite hopeful this will plus good revenues and we achieve our targets.
Jyoti Singh
Thank you so much.
Kumar Taurani
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Garved Goel from Investing Analytical Advisory. Please go ahead.
Garvit Goyal
Hello. Am I audible?
Operator
Yeah.
Garvit Goyal
Good morning sir. Congrats for good numbers. My questions are already answered. Just one question. Left in this quarter content for coast has increased significantly. If we are comparing it with last 3/4. I agree we are focusing on quality of the song but considering that our growth for next year is particularly driven by the new releases, so don’t you think it is going to impact our margins and thus our pat growth is somewhere like underperforming our top line growth.
Kumar Taurani
How come that happened? It will we I don’t think. Please clarify this garment.
Sushant Dalmia
What we have said earlier also we are targeting that content budget of 25 to 28% and let’s say we will be targeting that growth but depending on the releases, how it comes up in which quarter and everything. So there could be Minor variations
Garvit Goyal
Means 30% that what I mean to say is are we going to sustain our pack margins in upcoming year as compared to this year despite releasing these higher quality zones? That’s what I’m trying to ask.
Sushant Dalmia
So Garvin, let’s say this year our operating margins were around 56.5%. So next year also let’s say it could be in that range of let’s say 64 to 67% depending on how the content gets released. But it would be in this range.
Garvit Goyal
Understood. And so secondly on our CFO EBITDA ratio this year I think it fell down to 58% mainly because of some decrease in financial liabilities and current non current liabilities. And further there is some increase in the other current assets. So can you highlight like what are these items and why these are reducing our cash flows.
Sushant Dalmia
So if you compare it with last year, the last year let’s say the ratio was higher because we had received certain branches in advance from Honor, let’s say at the end of March this year, let’s say that tranche has come in April. So that’s why you see that cash flow from operations, the percentage which are comparing with EBITDA on the lower side. But let’s say in our business we get the money in advance or let’s say in some cases the credit cycle is for 30 days only. So whatever, let’s say on a longer term basis, whatever we are earning on EBITDA or a PAD basis that directly reflects in our cash flow, you have to let it see it on a two to three year basis rather than a single year.
Garvit Goyal
Understood. And so can you please share any stats on how subscription revenues are going on at industry levels, how these things are shaping up, whether the people are very much open to it or how the industry data is looking like which is giving us the confidence that we are going to be the beneficiary in the upcoming years of this trend.
Hari Nair
The industry data is very positive. If you see the year on year consumption that happens in India for our Indian content, it’s growing very rapidly thanks to Spotify, YouTube and the short format video apps. Like you heard how the older content is suddenly picking up. So content consumption is exploding for us. The revenue equally must explode. But the explosion may be in a slower manner. But I feel that overall the paid ecosystem, everything is growing. So I think India is a great market to be in for music.
Garvit Goyal
Thank you very much for all the best for the future. Thank you.
Operator
A reminder to all participants, please restrict yourself to two questions per participant only. We have our next question from the line of Abhishek Sengupta from AB Capital. Please, please go ahead.
Abhijeet Sengupta
Hello, am I audible?
Operator
Oh yes sir. Please go ahead.
Abhijeet Sengupta
Yeah. First of all congratulations on a great set of numbers. Now we had been growing at around 30% as you had guided. I just wanted to know at a broad level, how long do you think our this 30% growth journey can continue? Like do you think we are gradually reaching a saturation point and growth will gradually slow down in next three, four years or you think we can continue at a broad level?
Kumar Taurani
I think if you see the overall industry, our value, our total industry is around 303,500 4,000 crores in that range and we have a potential to grow around 10,000 crores in next four to five years. So I feel we can, we can really grow maybe in after two years, maybe there are some dip or some minor thing will happen but again it will compensate. For next one or two years it will compensate. So I think we are in a very, very right time, right content. Really we are in the best place I feel, I strongly believe this business. We, we are the lowest in the if you see compared to us, UK and all those markets. Let me tell you subscription people doubt if subscription will grow or what will happen to subscription. What we again and again mentioning. You know in 20078 there was a business called CRBT called a ring back tone. On that when I call you, you have a some tone and I’m listening that music. Actually you are keeping that music for me. And that is also only 30 seconds. And that time you are paying 30 rupees as a subscription and 15 rupees you are paying for a download of any new song. If you download four songs in a month so you are paying another 15 rupees per transaction. So if you downloaded three songs you are paying 45 plus 30,75 rupees. At that time that mobile companies used to require 5000 crores from subscription and 3000 crores from downloading. So there is a business. So that was. And music companies used to get only 7,800crores. So I think. I think that that time is coming back. People will subscribe and it will be a big business and an Indian consumer. That time also everybody was feeling it was from small towns. Lucknow, Kanpur, Puna, Sangli, Kolapur, Sholapur. Although small, small time people were paying. I think our business has a huge capability. A 10,000 crores is becoming a. I feel. And it will happen.
Abhijeet Sengupta
Okay sir. Okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Pallavi Deshpande from Samiksha Capital. Please go ahead.
Pallavi Deshpande
Yes sir. Thank you for taking my question. Just wanted to understand that this TikTok deal for international and even the Sony Publishing for the international site. So how much percentage of revenue can it be in three to five years for you? The international side
Kumar Taurani
Give guidance, whatever.
Sushant Dalmia
So first with Sony Music earlier we had a limited deal. What we did in the Q4 was adding YouTube. YouTube. So Sony Music Publishing is the number one publishing house in the world with more than 31% market share control. They are integrated with most of the societies and collection agents. So with us adding the YouTube into their kitty, we feel that our publishing revenues will drastically increase because we were not able to reach to a certain society. They will reach out also Sony Music Publishing has a better. What do you say, Rate or negotiated rates with the global societies than what we could do ourselves. So I feel overall we’ll have a good increase in the publishing revenues
Hari Nair
And Pallavi to give you. Let’s say the first deal with Grit with SMP was two years back. And let’s say we had recovered this advances. Now in Q4 we have renewed this deal, given them YouTube and the deal is four times bigger now for us. So there is a lot of potential in terms of the revenue growth from this team.
Pallavi Deshpande
Right. Got that. And my second question would be on regard to the movie side. You mentioned about some more big movies coming up. So which one would that be for next year? The in house.
Kumar Taurani
We announced movies. We are only dealing with them for music. So now there is a movie called Malik that is coming in music in the last week of May or June. And then there is a Punjabi movie called Sarval that will also release same same time. Then David Dhawan and Varun Dhawan. And then there’s another movie Sushant Chaturvedi and Suddham Chaturvedi and Vamika Gabi Jayavachan on all those actors are there in the movie. So we have then there is a no dream entry. So and also we are negotiating with two, three other people banners. Also there’s a one big Punjabi movie coming movies releasing on the 30th of May anytime we will be releasing music. So we have a quite a quite big films this year also we are talking to two, three other people. I in totality we will release around 12 films this year.
Pallavi Deshpande
Okay. Right. And what was this number in FY25?
Operator
Can we please request you to rejoin the queue. There are several participants waiting for their turn. Okay, thank you. Thank you so much. We have our next question from the line of Ben Smith from Kizana Capital. Please go ahead.
Ben Smith
Hi all. Am I audible?
Operator
Yeah.
Ben Smith
I was just wondering could you please explain why you have decided that 25 to 28% of revenue is an appropriate level of reinvestments into content. So for example why not say 35, 40% plus if this is a growing industry, you’ve got cash on the balance sheet etc. Why not a higher level of reinvestment? Thank you.
Kumar Taurani
See it’s a very competitive market. We in the in India we need a two, two or two and a half three companies to in the content business particularly I’m talking about Hindi, Hindi music. So. And we are already now five people fighting for the content. So and everybody is really all producers. All those people are really charging more than what they deserve. So we are very cautious in our approach and we don’t want. And if you see the success ratio is only 10, 15%. So we wanted a thousand crore industry maybe success ratio is around 150, 200 crores. So we want to just focus on that amount. We want to have a maximum good titles from that category. If we succeeded for 60, 70% and acquiring those content, it will be enough for us. If we be greedy and we go more than 30% or 25, 20% then it is a higher chance of getting bad products and higher chance of doing many flops. So we are very, very cautious and very careful and we feel number is absolutely correct. 100 crores. The big money. We can get a really good content.
Ben Smith
Okay, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Aditi Nawal from RSPN Ventures. Please go ahead.
Aditi Nawal
Yeah, hi, good morning. Am I audible? Yeah, yeah. So we’ve just recently started tracking the company. So I had a few questions regarding the company and the industry in general. So first I wanted to understand that, you know, you said that around 75% of your revenue is from digital sources. I just wanted to know is what is the proportion of revenue that you’re getting from the music OTT players and if you could provide like a excluding YouTube music kind of a figure.
Sushant Dalmia
Sushant, can you please answer this? What you said is 75% is from digital, 25% non digital within digital. YouTube is a bigger for us and then the OTT platform comes, that is Spotify, Amazon, Savon and Meta. So this is. We generally don’t give a detailed breakup but let the YouTube would be the bigger and then let’s say Spotify Meta would be there.
Aditi Nawal
Okay. And so how many are the total subscribers in India for you know, music excluding YouTube music? And I’m guessing around 4 to 5%. I mean what is the percentage of paid subscribers in that? If you could quantify that as well.
Sushant Dalmia
So let the total music music listeners in India excluding YouTube would be around 180 to 200 million and paid subscribers. The actual count would be roughly around let’s say 5%. But in terms of revenue, that could be roughly around 10%.
Aditi Nawal
Got it. And any back of the calculate back of the envelope calculation, if you’ve done that, you know, let’s say the two bigger players going behind the paywall completely, then what could be the conversion in the free subscribers becoming paid subscribers? Like what proportion of free or premium subscribers could become paid subscribers
Hari Nair
That this data point now this will change from a platform to platform. So YouTube might be having a different conversion ratio than a Spotify. So this the platform can only be as labels won’t have detailed, detailed data points on this.
Aditi Nawal
Yes, but I mean majorly everybody in the industry is talking about the two bigger players like the Savan and the Spot. Going behind the paywall. So any calculation done on that? Let’s say,
Hari Nair
You know, one. No, we don’t have it. But if you see the worldwide numbers, it’s more on the paid side. You know, if you see Spotify globally, I think they have more than 60% as paid subscribers or probably near to 70%. And rest is free users. So I think it should follow the same format. And they know their business. Right. They know how to push the consumers to the paid wall.
Aditi Nawal
And is it a fair assumption that, you know, Spotify. Just, just one last, just one last question, if that’s okay. Just a proportion, you know, what is the proportion of Spotify and Jio 7 in India, like market share?
Kumar Taurani
We won’t know that exact numbers, but you know, Spotify claimed to have about 99 million users. I don’t know the numbers to where. They have never publicly disclosed any numbers like this.
Aditi Nawal
Got it. That will be it from time. Thank you so much.
Kumar Taurani
Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Karan from Keynote Capitals. Please go ahead.
Karan Galaiya
Yeah, hi, thank you for the opportunity. Can you share what technological initiatives, you know, TIPS has undertaken to, let’s say, enhance analytics and optimize the monetization of music library apart from the passive revenue stream from YouTube and audio TT like what proactive steps are being taken to, you know, push music discovery and engagement?
Hari Nair
So to answer your question in two parts, music discovery and engagement is a platform’s job. It’s not on the platform. It’s their job, not us, but for us to engage with the consumer and make them, you know, discover our songs. We are doing a lot of marketing activities with the platforms. That is one on the technology side, we are upgrading and developing our own systems. It’s called Pulse. So we used to use a system called Fuga. Very soon we will be displacing that and using our own system to distribute our content metadata with highly tagged data about the sound, which will enable us to get better into the algorithms. So that’s going on right now as a project. On the analytics side, we are far ahead in terms of the data that we get. We have data lakes of our own, we have tons of servers in cloud and we do a lot of data processing, more than I think 10 to 15gb data daily processing happens and that gives us a lot of data points, insights, whatever the platform gives us. So we are getting there. I think in six to eight months we’ll be far more better than what we are right now.
Karan Galaiya
Understood. And can you share a bit more color on what specific metrics or performance indicators you guys track internally for a growth in platform or specific streams? If you can share some specific methods.
Hari Nair
I can’t share the specific methods but every platform has its metric. Like on a video platform there will be something which is how much is the duration, consumer watch or in the audio platform it must be similar metric. So every platform has their own metric of measurement. And we will see it in a different way. And the platform will see it in a different way. I cannot disclose further because that that would be our trade secret.
Karan Galaiya
Okay, thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Siddharth Purohit from InvestQ Investments. Please go ahead.
Siddharth Purohit
Hello. Yeah, just one clarification. Say let’s say when we invest in any content and we spend let’s say 100 rupees, the normally monetization will be front loaded. And we must be getting the revenue in the first year itself and a majority. So what percentage normally we see coming in the first year and how that number normally has been flowing in in your case in the subsequent years.
Kumar Taurani
We can’t give you that exactly. But as we mentioned earlier, QV target, we should recover our revenue in four to five years time.
Siddharth Purohit
So is it fair to assume that you know at least half of the potential revenue will be monetized in the first year?
Kumar Taurani
It’s depending upon title to title basis. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it won’t happen. We calculate as a, as a whole, whatever we invest in this year we must overall recover in four to five years time.
Siddharth Purohit
Okay. And so one more just clarification. The cost per song when I calculate based on the number of songs released has gone up substantially compared to last year and particularly this quarter. So will it be the new trend that you know, probably the content cost will be per unit will be higher and the absolute number of releases will not be the benchmark. To check the kind of potential revenue,
Kumar Taurani
As mentioned earlier, we are going for a quality and film music. So it will, it will, it will be more expensive and so quality or quantity.
Siddharth Purohit
Okay, Got it. Okay, sir. Thank you. That’s from my side.
Operator
Thank you. We have a next question from the line of Lokesh Agarwal or shareholder. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Yeah. Thank you so much for giving the opportunity and congratulations for the wonderful results of 2025. Sir, I’m really a big fan of your business and my first question is. See, I read an article last month in Economic Times that live shows industry in India is expected to grow by over 18% in the next couple of years. And so my question is how much percentage of revenue of ours is coming from live shows and are we planning to increase that in the next couple of years? And are we also planning to enter directly organizing the live shows where our own music can be used?
Kumar Taurani
No, we don’t have, we don’t do that business. But maybe we immediately. We don’t have any plans but maybe in future we consider. So at present we don’t have any plan.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And how much percentage of revenue is coming from live shows and are we increase. Trying to increase it.
Kumar Taurani
For music revenues? Yes, we. We collect a lot of public performance wherever it happens. So we, we. We getting money. Yes.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Not a specific number you can mention.
Kumar Taurani
We can’t mention that. Please.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, I understand. I understand. Okay, sir. Okay. Thank you so much. That was my only question. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of J shaft from OHM portfolio EquiResearch. Please go ahead.
Jayesh Shah
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. I just have one clarification. In terms of content cost per unit, whilst you are saying it’s going up, is it true that the content cost for non Bollywood music is also going up? Because what I notice is that the mix for non Bollywood music is actually increasing in the overall pie.
Kumar Taurani
I feel ultimately Bollywood will be biggest. Our focus is on that this year also we are doing few good artists and if we have a bigger artist so we have to pay more and the cost will increase and which we don’t mind. If we are getting quality, we don’t mind paying more. That’s our plan this year.
Jayesh Shah
Oh, I see. So in your case it will be Bollywood music will go up and with all the senior artists.
Kumar Taurani
Yes.
Jayesh Shah
Okay. And secondly, when you talk about acquiring or releasing say 100 to 125 songs in a year, what is the industry number? So I’m just trying to get some idea on the incremental market share.
Kumar Taurani
They say here on thousand films release every year in all the digital languages, calculate around 5 songs, 5000 plus you NL. 5, 7,000, 10, 12,000. Must be releasing every year.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, thanks a lot and best of luck. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Webhav Mulay from yes, securities. Please go ahead.
Vaibhav Muley
Good afternoon, sir. Congratulations on a very good set of numbers. Just couple of questions on the Warner deal. First of all, so what is the tranche amount received in April and what will be received in October 2025?
Kumar Taurani
Can’t give you the exact number, but it’s a two tranches whatever deal is online happening properly. Can’t remember the number at least.
Vaibhav Muley
Okay, and for the last year then compared to the advance that you had received, what was the actual revenue book? Have we recovered all the advances and revenue has exceeded?
Kumar Taurani
No, no, no. We have not recovered. But Sushant, please clarify this.
Sushant Dalmia
So let’s say we have booked the revenue basis, the actual consumption and let it. The recovery of advance would be happening on a gradual basis.
Vaibhav Muley
All right. So recovery will happen over the coming year. But advance was higher than the revenue recovery.
Sushant Dalmia
Sorry. Yes, recovery would happen over the period of the contract.
Vaibhav Muley
All right. And can you just elaborate more on the current monetization of short format? What was the contribution of revenue and where do we expect over the next two years?
Kumar Taurani
Can’t give you exact number. It’s a world is very competitive. So please bear with us. But we hope it will be a very very huge number.
Vaibhav Muley
All right. And coming to the non digital part, sir, about your licensing and sing deal segments. So how has been the performance of licensing segment especially? I wanted to know about the current penetration at the industry level. And where is the penetration can go to over next two, three years period. And on the same deal side, what are the new deal that have been done or what? What kind of pipeline is there for single deals?
Kumar Taurani
So many questions in one question. But now overall we are doing for last few years we are seeing we are gradually increasing our revenue from both the businesses non digital and digital. 75%, 25%. That is happening and we are very happy with that. I think even going further future it will happen similarly.
Vaibhav Muley
All right, sir, that’s it. From my side. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Yash Podar from Bianch Ventures. Please go ahead.
Yash Poddar
Hi, I’m Audible.
Operator
Yeah.
Yash Poddar
Hi. I just had a couple of questions related to the strategy behind the increased per content cost. Now I’m trying to make a sort of strategic sense on this. So given that the total say volume of content has reduced and the per content cost has gone up, and you’ve already mentioned that the focus is more on the quality side, I’m trying to understand that. Does this directly correlate to the content having a higher probability of being hit or having a high level of virality? And does a higher per content cost ensure that the specific acquisition will play out much better than the current say library that we have? Is that the thought process behind it?
Kumar Taurani
Absolutely. Yes.
Yash Poddar
Right. So if you can just maybe, you know, help explain like, you know, what are the elements here that will ensure for us that the higher cost of acquisition will create a bigger virality? Is it only a factor of channel or is it a factor of certain metrics that you are trying to achieve through this? If you can just help us understand better.
Kumar Taurani
Yes, can’t do that because please understand, it’s a competition world. How can we open our strategy in the open forum? How can do that, please?
Yash Poddar
Sure. So on the other side, my question was that from the sense of going forward as a product portfolio for us, is this going to be a continued trend that we are going to be focusing more and more on the quality side and we want to reduce the failure rate of content. Is that the thought process or the thought process is to say as a company further on, strategy wise, integrate more libraries and focus on the volume element. If you can just give a sense of understanding.
Kumar Taurani
Absolutely. Our focus is on getting more hits from when music business was down from year 2003 to 2015, 16. We have focused on less number of songs and we had a 85, 20% of success ratio. So we are surveillance going back to zone where we reduce number of songs. But we want a quality, maybe 50% of our success ratio should be there. That is our target, you can say, right?
Yash Poddar
And just a quality question to that is the content that does not become necessarily a hit as per our standard. What is the kind of monetization or let’s say a one time monetization or a continued amount that we are able to salvage from it. Just to understand how the business works.
Kumar Taurani
I told, I think I mentioned earlier, we will. Our target is to recover whatever we invest in next four to five years time. So that will continue. And you know, we are the only company which rise of the content cost in the same quarter. And this practice we are doing for last as an inception of the company.
Yash Poddar
Right. Okay. Got it. Yeah. This is helpful. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen. That would be the last question for today. And I now hand over to Ms. Ayushi Gupta for closing comments. Over to you, ma’am.
Unidentified Speaker
Conference call today. And also thanks to all the participants. If you have any queries, please feel free to contact us. We are NAFT in time India Private Limited Investor Relation Advisors 2 Tips Music Ltd. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks everyone.
Operator
Thank you. On behalf of Tips Music Limited. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.