The Federal Bank Limited (NSE: FEDERALBNK) Q4 FY22 Earnings Concall dated May. 06, 2022
Corporate Participants:
Anand Chugh — Head Investor Relations
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Ashutosh Khajuria — Executive Director
Venkatraman Venkateswaran — Group President & Chief Financial Officer
Harsh Dugar — Group President & Country Head – Wholesale Banking
Shalini Warrier — Executive Director
Analysts:
Gaurav Kochar — Mirae Asset — Analyst
Mahrukh Adajania — Edelweiss — Analyst
Nitin Agarwal — Motilal Oswal Securities — Analyst
Renish Bhuva — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Kaushik Poddar — KB Capital Markets — Analyst
Manish Dhariwal — Fiducia Capital — Analyst
Sagar Shah — Alpha Line Wealth Advisors — Analyst
Krishnan ASV — HDFC Securities — Analyst
Kashyap Jhaveri — Emkay Investment Managers — Analyst
Shalini Warrier — Executive Director
Vivek Ramakrishnan — DSP Mutual Fund. — Analyst
Mahesh MB — Kotak Securities — Analyst
Rushab Inderkar — Guardian Capital — Analyst
Franklin M — — Analyst
Gaurav Jani — Prabhudas Lilladher — Analyst
Anand Dama — Emkay Global — Analyst
Darpin Shah — Haitong Securities — Analyst
Jay Mundra — B&K Securities — Analyst
Babu K A — — Analyst
Dhaval Gala — Aditya Birla Sun Life — Analyst
Prashant Kumar — Sunidhi Securities — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen. Good day and welcome to the Q4 FY22 Earnings Conference Call of the Federal Bank Limited. [Operator Instructions]
Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr Anand Chugh Head, Investor Relations, The Federal Bank Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Anand Chugh — Head Investor Relations
Thanks, Stephen. Good evening, everyone. I’m sure all of you would have seen the numbers and would have got a chance to go through the presentation as well. I wouldn’t stand between you and Shyam. And I request Shyam to pick up the call.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Anand, before — I think there is a huge disturbance in the line. Operator?
Operator
Yes, sir. Just give me a moment. Mr Chugh, you may please proceed. We have the line for the Chairperson clear now.
Anand Chugh — Head Investor Relations
Okay, so I’ll hand it over to Shyam for his opening remarks and then we can probably –once that is done, we will proceed for Q&A.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Thank you, Anand. And good afternoon everybody. This is from my office in Federal Tower. I have my senior colleagues who are on the line, Shalini, Venkat, Harsh, Andand of course, and some of other seniors. So between me and them, they will be able to give a good glimpse of all that’s going on in the Bank and questions that you may have.
Well, let me just start with a few opening remarks. You must have had a chance to see our Q4 outcomes. From a reported net profit numbers, certainly are highest ever and importantly and gratifyingly the commitments on ROA and ROE are trending to plan. And even more hearteningly in Q4, we did take an accelerated one-off impact of the entire family pension provision of our INR140 crores in Q4, and yet could have come sort of accomplish the number of delivering our ROE commitment, which has been driven largely by the asset quality of the bank holding out extremely well. And it’s as I’ve always said years of effort to make sure that the credit book the credit quality of Federal Bank remains the top top notch and thankfully, it does continue to be so.
So, message one as we exit with reasonable momentum on the credit quality side and we believe that we’ll hold well, as we go into FY23 and beyond. We have good insight into kind of performance both the restructured book is performing, and our core book is performing. And we believe that despite the headwinds in the environment, we will continue to deliver good quality of credit performance. That’s an encouraging sign.
The second is, for many years, we have worked on building a high quality team and I’m pleased that this year in particular, the senior team and the team below them continues to be top tier and I’m quite confident that the depth that we have for every position we have two people waiting to now take the next job. So I do believe the team quality and team strength is good to deal with the challenges that FY23 may place for all of us in the market.
The third message is that we enter FY23 well provisioned on books that we feel any kind of stress, we have addressed it robustly and importantly dealt with the having to take sort of strain of having to provide for pension, we’ve provided that upfront. So we upfront in that as well. The fourth, I think what has going to distinguish quite materially in FY23 amongst banks in particularly banks like us is people who have a liability franchise that can withstand and deliver at times like this, all of us know interest rates are going up. There’s going to be a war for deposits. There is going to be to support the nascent credit pickup, you need a high quality liability franchise and have for long maintained that our liability franchise is amongst the most granular most retail in the market and I believe — we think we have a good story going and this year we’ll probably show the fact that our liability franchise will hold better than many other bank. And help us grow mid-teens in credit funded by our own non-bulk liability franchise.
And the last, which supports the earlier point on deposits is the fact that we’ve invested very materially in FinTechs. I would like to believe we are the absolute go to bank for the FinTech partnerships, not just because of it’s glamorous because they have a model that works for both us and the partners and I’m quite committed and believe that FY23 will see that fan out in terms of both ability to grow and monetize these relationships. So, we enter FY23 on the back of good credit quality team that is strong and asset quality well provisioned and ability to grow liabilities and meaningful and thoughtful FinTech engagements that we preparing for and we believe that it will start distinguishing our bank quite substantially.
These were some of the sort of entry opening remarks, I wanted to make. The numbers are there for you to see, and we’ll be more than happy to answer questions, any clarifications that are required. We had said that we will be on a trajectory to delivering 1.2% to 1.25% ROE by the two financial years out, which means in FY23, we are committed to being closer to 1.1 or thereabouts, slightly better. And at this point in time our line of sight and our trajectory points to the fact that it’s quite possible. And we are borrowing any extraordinary external environment changes, we should be on cost to delivering that.
It’s also heartening that in FY22, our capital adequacy went up by about 100 basis points. We did have a new anchor investor who came in and outside of that, our retained earnings and our overall performance helped us reshape the credit book and it does raise our capital adequacy to 15.770 if I recall right. And lastly but not any less important has been the — this is the second year on a run, we’ve been chosen as a great place to work. And this is relevant for a Bank like us, which is traditionally seen as relatively an old world employer and don’t have both talent and and focus around these aspects. I do believe that we can proudly say that we both great place to work and we attract good talent.
So I’ll just pause here and open it up for questions. And I’m sure when me Ashutosh, Shalini, Harsh, Venkat, Ajit, Babu will be able to answer any questions that anybody may want to ask or clarify. Thank you very much.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much sir. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Gaurav Kochar from Mirae Asset. Please go ahead.
Gaurav Kochar — Mirae Asset — Analyst
Yeah, good evening team. My first question is on the OpEx front, I mean we took a one-time one-time hit of around 1INR45 crore to INR50 crore in this quarter, if I remove that and I’m assuming that this has come in the employee expense line. So, if I remove that from the employee expense, it shows that the run rate is closer to 489 crore to 490 crores, is that the way to look at it for the next year, the employee expense run rate of sub 500 crores?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Around 500 would be within the — if we would 500 to 510 that zone. Yes.
Gaurav Kochar — Mirae Asset — Analyst
Okay, so roundabout 2,000 ballpark here?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Yes.
Gaurav Kochar — Mirae Asset — Analyst
A 100 crores here and there? Okay. Okay and I remember, I mean, earlier you alluded to in previous calls that FY23 onwards some benefit of some of the employees retiring, older employees retiring that benefit would come in the form of lower pension liability, and also the yields are moving up. So, is this 500 number, net of all that?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, you could say that, yes.
Gaurav Kochar — Mirae Asset — Analyst
Okay. Sure. Got it. Also another point on the balance sheet front, I mean if I look at the borrowings, they were up around 7,000 crores sequentially. I mean our LCR is probably best in class. We have a very high LCR, I’m assuming the SLR component is also above the regulatory limits, then why exactly was there a need to borrow? Is this some sort of NHB borrowing or lower cost borrowing that we did in the quarter end?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Yes. There was an opportunity to borrow three year money from NABARD and that’s what we did.
Gaurav Kochar — Mirae Asset — Analyst
Okay. Sure. Then
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Which in fact turns out to be a good choice in the context of the rising rate being a strict and so it’s turned out well for us.
Gaurav Kochar — Mirae Asset — Analyst
Yes. And that brings me to the question on growth. I mean to deploy that excess borrowing or excess liquidity, what kind of growth are we looking at for fiscal year ’23 given that large banks are already growing 15% plus, any sort of growth outlook that you’d like to talk about?
Ashutosh Khajuria — Executive Director
May I step in?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Go ahead, Ashutosh.
Gaurav Kochar — Mirae Asset — Analyst
Basically if you see our CB issuance, CB we allowed to mature and all, number one we brought longevity as far as the resources are concerned, it is refinance and therefore exemption is available CRR, SLR exemption is available. In retrospect, when we CCR has gone up by 50 basis points, it looks like that was a good call, made in January 2022. So, I think to answer your question. part of it was — replacement of CDs. Sure.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
From a credit growth point of view, we believe this year anything north of 15 is what they should be targeting. We are not — internally we have higher aspirations but I think, yes, 15 plus is something we are pushing for. And we believe it’s very possible even the year went by, we were at about 10%. We did about close to 1.5% of the securitization. So to that extent, we reduced our credit book by about INR1,500 crores. So we did grow close to 12% last financial year. We believe this year it should be well north of 15%.
Gaurav Kochar — Mirae Asset — Analyst
Okay. Sure. And on the repo rate hike and given that size also linked to repo rate, will the SAAR go up or the spread will be adjusted accordingly?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Spreads will be adjusted large part, we have already increased by 15 basis points against the 40 basis point increasing and we are yet even after that the lowest SAAR in the country and growing at 18%-19%.
Gaurav Kochar — Mirae Asset — Analyst
Sure.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mahrukh Adajania from Edelweiss. Please go ahead.
Mahrukh Adajania — Edelweiss — Analyst
Hello, sir.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Hi.
Mahrukh Adajania — Edelweiss — Analyst
Hi. Sir, I have a couple of questions. Firstly that is on about mid teens credit growth, this time around 10% so what gives you, would it be inflation or market share gains, or how do we look about — how do we look at it?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
You see combination Mahrukh, there are all businesses that are positioned for growth. Last year, because we went slow on — blown on for the first 9 months, we didn’t go slow the market also slowed. We saw lower traction. It picked up quite meaningfully in Q4. And I see that continuing in FY23. The previous year we have grown 70%. So, this year it should be well north of 20% to 25%. Almost every business line has both potential opportunity and risk appetite to grow north of 15. There are some very nascent businesses like credit cards and commercial vehicles, which may grow at an astronomical, maybe even hundreds of percent, but on balance, we believe that the 130 odd of INR1,000 crores of credit book should grow north of 15% across the spectrum. And there may be only one business where we may see a lower than mid-teens depending on the size and ticket and competition, we may choose to dial-up, dial down on the corporate credit, depending on the opportunities in the market but otherwise granular organic businesses all see huge potential to grow.
Mahrukh Adajania — Edelweiss — Analyst
So, on lot of banks increasing SMEs are complaining about very aggressive competition in well routed SMEs and of course as the well routed corporate, so what are your thoughts there, I mean with that speaking composition, is it possible to growing in these the segment or do you think guys are not in the segments you operate in?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
No, I think the good segments are always fully flooded with good players, right? It’s never going to be vacant for somebody else to steal but I think some — the current interest rate environment and typically the rush to grow credit that’s a few banks were sort of Gung Ho about, we do see and I am quite sure you will see that behavior has changed in a year like this. And that’s why I said, very early in the call that deposit franchise banks will grow better. Those who can grade garnered good low quality granular deposits. We believe that we have that tool in our hands and we’ve demonstrated that for many years, and I believe that will help us grow. And yet despite everything growing at 15 odd percent in this environment looks very possible.
I do have to add your point of few banks cornering because of their sort of overall strength is indeed true, but I do think sanity in pricing is coming down.
Mahrukh Adajania — Edelweiss — Analyst
Okay, sir. That’s helpful. And my last question and if you can give the breakdown of loan by rates how much is MCLR repo and other variable?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Very broadly, our repo book is about 45%. Venkat, am I right?
Venkatraman Venkateswaran — Group President & Chief Financial Officer
Yeah, Shyam. The external benchmark is 46, the MCLR is 18 and fixed is 27.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Yeah.
Mahrukh Adajania — Edelweiss — Analyst
Okay sir. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nitin Agarwal from Motilal Oswal Securities, please go ahead.
Nitin Agarwal — Motilal Oswal Securities — Analyst
Yeah. Hi, sir. Congrats on a steady quarter. I have two questions, one is on margins like we have seen a 11 basis point decline this quarter. So, any color on this and how do you see this faring over FY23.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Nitin, I request you to not look at a quarter. Look at the longer period. 320 was the number we looked at and we landed at 320. FY23, we believe that should shoot up by at least another 7-8 basis points. We think if we will blend FY23, will be closer to 325 plus.
Nitin Agarwal — Motilal Oswal Securities — Analyst
Okay. And secondly, now that you have already absorbed the family pension cost this quarter, so how do you see the cost-income ratio now?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
We should normalize back to the early-50s. And as I’ve mentioned in earlier year calls in prior period, we are pushing very hard to get it below sub 50 closer to 48. But I think we need one extra financial year for that.
Nitin Agarwal — Motilal Oswal Securities — Analyst
Sure, sir. Thanks so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Renish Goa from ICICI Securities, please go ahead.
Renish Bhuva — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Yeah, hi, sir. Congrats on a great set of numbers. Following Just how much big in nature, but on the margin front, so despite our higher lending books are growing faster, let’s say golden or CVC or 40%, those I understand that base is very low, but incrementally the growth in these segments are higher, why should margin fall in Q4 I mean, sequentially. Is there any anything which we are missing or any one-offs there?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Not missing anything Renish. If you see our slippages in Q4, there was a little exaggerated the agri side and that typically in an agri portfolio, you will see a bunching up of interest and when there is a slippage, it tends to eat up a larger share of the revenue reversal. So that extent that would have taken away 4,5 basis points.
Renish Bhuva — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Got it. Okay. That’s very helpful. And sir, just on your opening remarks, so you have said that the FinTech partnerships have to some extent been a mature now and we’ll see the P&L benefits start flowing in from FY23 onwards. So, any ballpark numbers you have in mind maybe it will flow through the other income or I mean, where it reflect in P&L?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
No, the liability growth and asset growth both are — there is dependency on this as a distribution, right. We’ve seen our Epifi, Jupiter and potentially a few more that our partners, they are largely our liability origination relationship. So, we think about 25% of our incremental deposit growth will come from these partnerships, incrementally. Likewise on the lending side, between 40% and 50% of the incremental lending in some products will come through these partnerships. We therefore will stack up for our growth in credit growth in liabilities.
Renish Bhuva — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Got it. And sir, any cost benefit analysis we’ve done, let’s say whatever incremental business either on the liability side or on the FX side we get if we are getting at a higher than 50% cost to income or lower than 50% cost to income?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
The revenue sharing and the cost model with the partners, as I mentioned in the previous calls and now is getting sharper, is a fair amount of it is variable. If linked to the volumes that is generated, and it’s not a fixed cost. In fact, most 95% of relationship is variable. One or two there some fixed element and importantly for FY23 for the incremental business, it will come at roughly at about 60% cost-income ratio trending towards 45% in the following financial year.
Renish Bhuva — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Okay. And I Technical Issues]
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Pardon me?
Renish Bhuva — ICICI Securities — Analyst
In FY22, it took the same rally more than 60% -65% cost income ratio?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
FY22?
Renish Bhuva — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Yeah, correct.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, roughly, you could say but FY 22 both cost, the pickup for revenue was latter part of this year. So on the incremental, it was about 65 but on a full year basis, we’re closer to 70.
Renish Bhuva — ICICI Securities — Analyst
Got it. Sir. Thank you so much, sir. Very helpful, sir.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kaushik Poddar from KB Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Kaushik Poddar — KB Capital Markets — Analyst
Shyam with whatever HDFC and HDFC Bank mergers being there, I mean it’s quite clear that banks need to get bigger to take care of the economy of scale. So is the Federal Bank that is its Board of Director thinking in those terms?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Nothing at this point in time. Neither do we have opportunity to buy nor has anybody approached us to be bought. So at this juncture, it’s heavily organic with opportunities to look at integrating micro finance portfolios or any higher margin portfolio stroke companies, for which we have marching order to go and find but unfortunately we haven’t found any of the size or scale, or if there are very good, then it’s not an affordable price but outside of that nothing Kaushik. We don’t have any — at this point in time dialog with anybody one way or the other.
Kaushik Poddar — KB Capital Markets — Analyst
Okay. And basically you are talking purchase of financial set, I mean in the sense of some portfolio
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Assset or sort of a well run microfinance setup is available, we will be happy to consider transactions. But I have to add quickly that nothing is in the cards.
Kaushik Poddar — KB Capital Markets — Analyst
Okay. And this cost, I just wanted to confirm, cost to you for this year you are putting it at 50%?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
In FY 23. Yes. We are looking at 50% -51%.
Kaushik Poddar — KB Capital Markets — Analyst
50% to 51%, Okay. Thank you.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manish Dhariwal from Fiducia Capital. Please go ahead.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Hi.
Manish Dhariwal — Fiducia Capital — Analyst
Now, you see my whole question is surrounding the question that’s been asked about the growth, like this particular quarter, our yield reduced and the cost increase, and in this quarter the NIM was also quite at the lower end, say about 3.16 which was probably 3.2. So basically, you see the environment is going to be remaining challenging. And now already to provision that down to INR75 crores. So, I don’t know whether they can convince each other now. So there is it that you’re going to get the TAT form.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
I think I did mentioned a little while earlier, our NIM expansion to 325-327 is something that by the business mix change and the prevailing rate environment looks very possible. And it will happen. The cost this quarter was a little exaggerated because of the one-off event. So, we do believe that there will be a positive jaws as then the revenue will outstrip the cost growth and credit quality will continue to hold as well as it does.
So that’s how we are expecting a 10 basis point improvement in our ROE expansion.
Manish Dhariwal — Fiducia Capital — Analyst
Yeah so, see, we are at a very solid platform in terms of asset book, with the quality of our asset book and I mean don’t you thinking that we should be kind of using that to step up on our growth through our aspirations?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
I did mentioned. We will grow very handsomely. But as a conventional way
Manish Dhariwal — Fiducia Capital — Analyst
Team today, the team today is something like has been
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
No, I respect your observation but there have been stories of people doing 30%-40% growth and having then going to jail. We have no such aspirations. I’m also acutely aware there are some banks at, the scale of an HDFC growing at 20% but we will be honest in real about where we can do business and how we should do business. So, you will not hear Federal Bank trying to talk itself into a position which then looks ugly a few years later. Will we stick our 20%? Absolutely, yes. We will. I mean we are not any less ambitious about growth. But I think we have to be quite honest about the way we do business.
If you heard us partner attractive for as long as I’ve been, we’ve never made false commitments, we don’t intend to it.
Manish Dhariwal — Fiducia Capital — Analyst
That’s the good sign.And also see we have been like really kind of a developing off impacts out of book so far the costs actually have gone up, despite the fact that our branch expansion has not happened. We basically said that you know our loss of this is going to come from the FinTech relationships. So this FY23, you think is going to be the year of your intention where the money is going to flow in, the monetization is going to happen?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Yeah. I did mentioned just a few minutes ago that we will see a meaningful part of our incremental growth coming through these partnerships. And it’s trending towards the 60% cost-income and the following year towards the 45% cost income or even better. We look at this, the following way, now for about five years plus we’ve added 20 branches, but we have doubled the bank, almost every dimension. And we are now, these branches. In fact, I’m very happy to report at this point in time, which is reported to our Board Today, we only one branch that is non-profitable and that too only because it’s less than two and half years old.
So we have every branch in the bank at good efficiency and productive and going ahead. So we’ve told ourselves two things, one is we will dial-up our FinTech partnerships, which is typically if you open a branch it take about 18 months or so to breakeven our FinTech partnerships to breakeven even faster. So when we grow 25% incremental deposits is almost like adding 300 branches at one. Second is in addition for distribution, our strategy was branch like distribution, we have flipped it around the light branch heavy distribution, which means we will start adding branches maximum about 5% of our network will increase every year and that again will start giving us distribution. So both counts, we are doing work this year and beyond.
Manish Dhariwal — Fiducia Capital — Analyst
Wonderful. Thank you for this detailed reply. We look forward to increased numbers. Thank you.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sagar Shah from Alpha Line Wealth Advisors. Please go ahead.
Sagar Shah — Alpha Line Wealth Advisors — Analyst
Hello, sir.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Hi.
Sagar Shah — Alpha Line Wealth Advisors — Analyst
So, actually I just have one question, actually. So basically, based on the past performance of your agri business portfolio, your NPAs are seem to be highest in that context. And in spite of that in this quarter, your agri portfolio you have grown by 20%, so do you see that going ahead this portfolio would see some improved asset quality or we will see the same growth rates going ahead also?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
This agri must remind us, and it has got gold on it. So when you see 20% growth, it includes the agri gold loan also.
Sagar Shah — Alpha Line Wealth Advisors — Analyst
Okay.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
And point about agri portfolio, facing higher losses is new to me, maybe I’m not fully informed. I didn’t realize it that way. In this quarter, there was a one-off transaction — one off higher than normal. This quarter was INR140 odd crores. Normally it’s never been that high. It includes agri and in the past, if you see the agri and SME. So, in a reporting sense if you look back in time, it was agri and SME integrated. But now we have partitioned that. So if you look at it, I don’t recall ever agri being a big problem. Except for this quarter, where we took a larger hit of INR89 crore one time.
Ashutosh Khajuria — Executive Director
If I may add, if I may add just because of — I think basically you have special dispensation for agri, you have two crops sort of permissibility wherein after one crop season if it has not paid the account is not classified NPA for another crop season also. I mean these are some peculiarities with agri-loans. Therefore, there is the after effect of COVID which got materialized here with the delay, in other segments it happened then in there.
Sagar Shah — Alpha Line Wealth Advisors — Analyst
So you expect this portfolio to do well in FY23 also?
Ashutosh Khajuria — Executive Director
Yes. In FY23 will not have that COVID legacy affecting the agri portfolio or so. So, this is something I mean which is peculiar to agriculture and therefore even interest reversal because you are maintaining that account as standard for say two crop seasons so the accumulated accrued interest also needs to be realized interest also needs to be reversed and that has impacted the NII also. Somebody had asked this question about NIM. So partly this NIM contraction by 3-4 basis points is an outcome of that Agri slippages also. I hope that clarifies.
Sagar Shah — Alpha Line Wealth Advisors — Analyst
Yeah. And my second last question was related to your business banking and commercial banking portfolio. So, basically your commercial banking portfolio actually so you have been growing at almost 8% in the last 5 years, 8% CAGR. So as you said in your last comments on an average, you will be growing around 15% in almost all the segments. So are you confident in spite of such heavy competition in the business banking in the commercial banking segments actually throughout the banking system. So are you still confident of delivering 15% growth in both the segments?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
I think we’re well positioned. In the Q4, these are two businesses that grew, I think for the quarter 4%.
Sagar Shah — Alpha Line Wealth Advisors — Analyst
Yeah.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
In the most intense competition period.
Sagar Shah — Alpha Line Wealth Advisors — Analyst
Yeah absolutely.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
We remain confident on that.
Sagar Shah — Alpha Line Wealth Advisors — Analyst
Okay. Sure. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Krishnan ASV from HDFC Securities, please go ahead.
Krishnan ASV — HDFC Securities — Analyst
Yeah, so just one very quick query around deposit thing. This was more to do with the fact that you mentioned about the fact that branches, except for one have kind of broken even, I was looking at more the productivity of these branches. Have you seen a marked improvement in the potential, may be potential Hoffman productivity of Federal Bank and your branches compared to peers and what are you doing to build that potential.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
I think firstly for quite a while now and each passing year it gets better. The sharp focus on products that we want our branches to be doing and branches, how much of their time is spent on sales, service and operations. So we’ve carved that out quite nicely. The reward mechanism for branches are driven by what their job objectives are in terms of productivity. You may have noticed our fee income ex-treasury has grown 25% Y-on-Y, 10% sequentially, largely fee income on wealth management and life insurance our branches that and has done a remarkable job. So productivity on business banking gold collection where they need to step in and fee income products, in addition to CASA growth is their job and on all counts that’s very, very meaningful progress. And each year they are being triggered to perform even better. The scorecards are sharply focused on this.
Krishnan ASV — HDFC Securities — Analyst
Absolutely,
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Listen guys, somebody need to mute yourself. Go ahead Krishna, anything else?
Krishnan ASV — HDFC Securities — Analyst
The other bit was around just I mean the growth environment itself, generally we have remained fairly conservative even when the peers are able to sequentially grow faster. You have been very picky because you are quite selective. Just wanted to understand, do you see from from say a pricing in perspective, any competitive intensity easing in any of the key segments that you are definitely looking to grow in?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
I don’t see easing. But I think there is some sanity coming in this very aggressive pricing that was happening in Q3, Q4 of last financial year. Of course April is usually a bad month to make any determination because there is a slowdown of varying nature but given trends conversations and the general interest rate environment, we believe that some pricing power will come back to lenders. And within the same risk appetite framework that we have, we believe our growth numbers that we spoke about 15% plus is very positive without busting our boundary conditions on lending.
Krishnan ASV — HDFC Securities — Analyst
Right, just one last query. I mean you built a very granular book on the asset side of the balance sheet as well, it’s very carefully crafted for the last few years. I just wanted to understand what kind of wallet share, I mean your assessment of where you are on wallet share and where can Federal Bank potentially take this over the next maybe 2, 3 years.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Did you mean product per customer, Is that what your question is?
Krishnan ASV — HDFC Securities — Analyst
Not necessarily on just the individual side but even on the commercial banking, business banking side, the SMEs, typically where you can still exercise some element of, say, the pricing power?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
See as a thumb rule, I want to say that good customers irrespective to which segment, they believe are able to command pricing. Then it comes to the relationship potential and our frontline guys ability to work with them and get more business. Now as we get more RM and outward client focus as and we go to the client as opposed to client comes to us, we are seeing that capability drill deeper and get a larger share of the wallet. In small business, business banking, commercial banking, I think our share of business is increasing with every passing. I mean Kapil, Rakesh, Shalini, Harsha are on the call. They may also add but that’s increasing.
On the corporate where it’s only a big ticket lending, that’s fight. But even there, we have seen very sharp growth in fee income this year and driven by these initiatives. But I think there is work to do on that count.
Harsh Dugar — Group President & Country Head – Wholesale Banking
Okay. Just to add Harsh here, on the commercial banking, business banking side, we are typically in most cases bankers are dominant banker and other ancillary business follow suit. In the mid corporate segment, the large corporate obviously, we are gaining share, to Just to give an indication at trade volumes, the cash management and fee growth has been significantly higher than our asset growth. Obviously indicating gaining market share over there as well. Wallet share. Yeah.
Krishnan ASV — HDFC Securities — Analyst
This helpful. Yeah, Harsh, Many thanks.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kashyap Jhaveri from Emkay Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Kashyap Jhaveri — Emkay Investment Managers — Analyst
Thank you so much, sir for this opportunity and congratulations for good set of numbers in challenging time. Just two questions from my side. One, if I look at fees there is general demolitions which have grown almost 50% Y-on-Y from about INR45 crores to INR70 crores, last 4 quarters, the run rate has been about INR45 crores. So what has driven that number? And seemingly is the primary driver besides charge of 25% growth in fees.
And second question is on CASA, Now, if I look at last three quarters, the SAAR number is now pretty much at about 51 crores to about 54,000 crores and SAAR number is also pretty much stagnant at about 11,000 to 12,000 crores. So, any color on the client acquisition on both the sides. Both side if you can offer because what I understand, is that the FinTech partnerships that behind, the number of client acquisition has gone up substantially, but that’s not pretty much probably reflecting in the overall float to variable. So these are the two questions.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Sure. I think on the SAAR, we can’t expect the FinTech to give us in the first period. In fact, at this point in time, incremental growth FinTech business origination in SAAR would be like less than 5% which is what we said it will go up to 25% in FY23 of the incremental balances that get built out and because the profile of these customers come in and they are more transaction and they start building over a period of time, I don’t believe that they will all be coming with large balances upfront because the nature and profile of that base is very different and that will continue but it’s giving us access to a new generation of clients, which we would not have either to bank and therefore the ability to cross sell a bunch of products kicks in. And that’s something that we’re working on. That’s why I said 25% of our deposit growth intermental, around 50% incremental, credit growth for some products will come through this segment.
Sorry, I missed the earlier part of the question, if you want to remind me?
Kashyap Jhaveri — Emkay Investment Managers — Analyst
Sir second question was on fees. So the banking submission and exchanges, run rate was about INR45 crores a quarter and suddenly this quarter it’s almost about INR70 crores.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
I think the growth on our fee income products like life insurance, mutual funds have all picked up doing extremely well. And that’s all branch led and I think when Krishnan asked I didn’t answer that in terms of these products. Our branch distribution led which is doing very well. Penetration in existing client base has increasing. Shalini, you want to comment on that and give your insights on that shalini?
Shalini Warrier — Executive Director
Yeah. Thanks, Shyam. I think there are a couple of drivers for driving up the fee income, taking off from where Shyam left. One is on the card side, while credit card is still a very small percentage of the portfolio, on debit cards, we’ve been kind of very good from a spend perspective and here we rank amongst the private sector banks probably just in terms of monthly spend. That has its own benefit in terms of interchange fees. So that’s one part of the fee income. The other part of the fee income that is growing at a very steady pace is the entire suite of products that we offer under private banking, which is life insurance non-life insurance, health insurance, wealth management and products like depository DMAT, sovereign gold bonds, et cetera that grown 10% QonQ 25% year-on-year.
So combination of these kind of factors along with normal the ATM fees that we get et cetera has helped us to grow our fee income, very much driven by customer behavior, very much driven by the use of analytics to cross-sell products to the customer and very much driven by branch productivity.
Kashyap Jhaveri — Emkay Investment Managers — Analyst
- And one last question, would you be able to disclose monthly client acquisition on the liability side?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Roughly in a day we do between organic plus the two partners, we are doing closer to 17,000 to 18,000 new customers.
Kashyap Jhaveri — Emkay Investment Managers — Analyst
Okay. Sure. Thank you so much.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Welcome.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shalini Vasanta from DSP Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Vivek Ramakrishnan — DSP Mutual Fund. — Analyst
Hi, good evening. This is Vivek Ramakrishnan. My question was the deposit side. This year seems to be the year where there will be a bit of a scramble for deposits and since you’re using FinTech and everybody is also going to be using similar FinTech, what causes the stickiness in your deposit base and how confident are you that you can grew it in the scramble for deposits. I’ll also ask the second question so that I can do it sequentially.
In terms of we have NBFC that is doing small finance business and it’s doing quite well. So how important the Fedfina to your overall targets of ROE in growth aspirations. Thank you.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Fedfina, every number of that other than the consolidated numbers is an independent entity thing. We have none of that including except for some detail distribution, they do for home loan. Other than that, they are an entirely independent entity run by their board just the consolidated numbers is what you see in our numbers but that’s a very marginal number in the scheme of things for us as of now. They’re doing well. I’m happy they’re doing well and they should do well.
For the first part of your question stickiness I think for a long, long period, but that has been the strength of our bank. I mean the remittance business that comes in Middle East Kerala, Middle East non Kerala, non Kerala non Middle East, all of that are tracking well. Domestic franchise across the country, our non-Kerala deposit growth is higher than our deposit growth in Kerala driven by A lower base, B higher presence and productivity. Third, as we step up and see more FinTech engagement and this client base starts maturing. We believe there will be an incremental opportunity, but that has to be yet proven and tested. Why would we grow and why would customer stick with us with some confidence I can tell you, if you are a Federal Bank customer rarely you do leave us. Our NPS, and this is not by my measure, NPS scores as measured by Nielsen for the industry, we rank amongst the top 2, 3 NPS scores.
Now for common understanding net promoter score is the best measure of customer referencing us or promoting our case and sticking with us.
Vivek Ramakrishnan — DSP Mutual Fund. — Analyst
Thank you and all the best.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mahesh MB from Kotak Securities, please go ahead. Yeah, hi, good evening, sir. Couple of questions, one is on slide 23 on the retail book, Shyam this growth that you saw in housing seems to be very, very weak, down on a QoQ basis, any theory to it?
Venkatraman Venkateswaran — Group President & Chief Financial Officer
Mahesh, I think there is we have got the numbers slightly wrong on that slide. We will update that slide and we’ll probably update the presentation.
Mahesh MB — Kotak Securities — Analyst
Okay. Perfect. On the second question you had kind of indicated this breakup between MCLR repo that number adds to 90, not 100. So, you said 45 repo, 18 MCLR, 27 fixed.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Rest of them are like staff loans and FX and a few other small, small one percent 2%. So, I give you the bigger one.
Mahesh MB — Kotak Securities — Analyst
Okay, perfect. And one last question. Is that in the pension related costs. how much was it for the full year that you had provided out here?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
INR185 crores on the family pension.
Mahesh MB — Kotak Securities — Analyst
No, if I include the overall the entire provisions that you made, if I look at it.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
It would be north of INR350 crore-INR400 crores.
Mahesh MB — Kotak Securities — Analyst
A comparable number, this would be INR500 crores last year? If you just kind of look at the annual report and kind of compare it with the number that you have given?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Let me not try to get that, Venkat we can give that?
Venkatraman Venkateswaran — Group President & Chief Financial Officer
We can check that out previously, Around INR440 crores to INR450 crores, Mahesh?
Mahesh MB — Kotak Securities — Analyst
That is last year or this year?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Last year.
Mahesh MB — Kotak Securities — Analyst
And this year, the number is 350?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
No, no this year, if you add the family pension, it will be higher.
Venkatraman Venkateswaran — Group President & Chief Financial Officer
Pension alone is 185. Okay, if I have just to
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
I will have to look into what is it the current year. I haven’t check that.
Mahesh MB — Kotak Securities — Analyst
Okay, perfect. Thanks a lot.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rishabh darker from Guardian Capital. Please go ahead.
Rushab Inderkar — Guardian Capital — Analyst
Hi, good evening to the management. I just had a couple of questions, first, could you take me through, what reason for decline in treasury profitability?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Ashutosh, you want to comment?
Ashutosh Khajuria — Executive Director
Yeah. So I think basically when interest rates start moving up, you do not have the opportunity to really make profits on bonds. Yeah through shorting some part of it has been compensated and through some ForEx volatility was there but trading gain cannot substitute the investment related opportunities profit on sale, which is classified in profit on sale of investments. So, I think when you see yields going up. The risk is on the other side that you are required to provide for it rather than earnings profits there.
So, we had been maintaining very low PVBP very low modified duration in our HFT and AFS portfolio. As a result of that the hit is minimal. But at the same time, the opportunity to make profit reduces that much, but if you see for the year as a whole. First quarter has been very, very good. So when you compare year versus year, I think you would find this year to be quite Okay. I mean the year that has gone past has been quite okay on that part. FY23 we may have challenge.
Rushab Inderkar — Guardian Capital — Analyst
Okay. So any guidance on what sort of profitability we are looking in treasury business next year?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
So on the ForEx side, there would be a normal growth of 15% to 20% but on the investment side, and all, there are some opportunities but that would depend on what call we take depending upon the then prevailing scenarios and all, investments in some of those strategic investments and all, so that’s something which we would decide in the fourth quarter. Overall, I think the profit on sale of investment has not been as such budgeted at the same levels at which it was that — the actual have come for FY22 but that would be compensated through the core growth — core fee income growth which has trended very well in third and fourth quarters of the previous year FY22.
So in FY23, we can take it forward to compensate and that’s going to be more sustaining.
Rushab Inderkar — Guardian Capital — Analyst
Got it, okay. And the second one being, do we have a breakup of the fixed rate — in terms of loan book do we have a breakup of fixed rate and floating-rate loan?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
That we had given. Venkat you can repeat that. I think it’s — fixed rate is 27%.
Venkatraman Venkateswaran — Group President & Chief Financial Officer
Yeah 2017-2018 is MCLR and external benchmark is 46%-47%, yeah.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Rest is advances against specified securities, NFC, shares your bank’s own deposits and all that.
Ashutosh Khajuria — Executive Director
Foreign currency also, Ashutosh.
Venkatraman Venkateswaran — Group President & Chief Financial Officer
Foreign currency, base rate have few small, small 1%, 1.5% like that.
Rushab Inderkar — Guardian Capital — Analyst
Got it. And earlier during the call, it was mentioned that from FY23, we would start monetizing the FinTech relationships. Do we have, I mean what is the model that we’re using for monetizing these?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
I think when I said monetizing it means that the investments may start fetching revenues. And I said, this year the broadly the cost income should be closer to 60%. If we have look to spend we expect at least INR0.55 revenues or more is what we’re pushing for it.
Rushab Inderkar — Guardian Capital — Analyst
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Before we take the next question a reminder to the participants please limit your questions to two questions per participant for any follow-up, may we request you to rejoin the queue.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
My apologies for every 51 rupees which when we earn, more not 50 paisa we earned more than that 1.5 or 1.5, sorry, I apologize. Yeah, go head. Please.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Franklin M from equities well wisely. Please go ahead.
Franklin M — — Analyst
Yeah, thanks for taking my question. So just on the deposit trajectory last 2, 3 quarters, we have seen a slowing trajectory in the overall deposits and we are likely to grow our advances by 15% plus in the next year, which means that our deposit base also needs to start picking up. So one is like, what is the reason why the trajectory has slowed and how is this trajectory is likely to pick up.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
So I think this question has come earlier. I think part of the deposits, if you’re a certificate of deposits and all those so we have reduced our so-called bulk and wholesale segment. In fact, part of it has been substituted by the refinances from the refinancing institutions like NABARD and all. But that doesn’t come under deposit that comes under borrowings, though it is longer term, I mean very competitively priced and all that. So the thing is, you know, I think you may see a reduction in total deposits or rather slower growth in total deposits, but if you remove this conscious substitution and all the deposit growth is matching the advances loan growth. Retail deposit growth is in double-digit.
Franklin M — — Analyst
Okay. And on the NIM trajectory, you said that around 3.25 is where you are looking to maintain the NIMs for next year. But is there scope for further improvement like the year after that? Or is this 3.25 likely to be more of a sustainable number.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
So I think, I mean the effort of the bank has the mix of the business changes and in a rising rate environment certainly to go higher than the 325 closer to 330 or beyond. But I think these are best delivered and they spoken the next milestone.
Franklin M — — Analyst
Yeah. Thanks a lot.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Yeah.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Gaurav Jani from Prabhudas Lilladher. Please go ahead.
Gaurav Jani — Prabhudas Lilladher — Analyst
Thanks for taking my question. Firstly question do Shyam, sir. So on the CASA ratio we’re at about close 37. In the coming year, we are layering at a higher interest rate environment, generally for us and for the system and how do generally the customers behave. So, we retain these customers or should be logically see a reduction in the CASA ratio?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
No we are looking at — see even CASA, we have to look at two things when you look at our ratio more the numerator and the denominator. What we are aspiring and working on is to get the CASA growing at the north of 17% to 18% growth rate. And a term is a function of both pricing and demand that we want. So CASA ratio of can swing but preferably we want to push it by another 100 basis points. In the last two financial years we have more than 313 basis points in CASA and we believe that we should get it closer to 39. But we are working on that over a period of time it will happen, but more than the ratio, please focus on the net blended cost of funds and CASA growing. Having said that the ratio will improve because that’s also a focus area of the bank. Our CASA mean cost cost of money is now in the top quartile, 4.3 or whatever that is.
Gaurav Jani — Prabhudas Lilladher — Analyst
That helps. The second question is to Shalini ma’am. On the credit cards frontline. So, firstly wanted your views on the new credit card guidelines and considering we had tie-ups with FinTechs for on it cards. So how will that sort of shape up in terms of growth.
Shalini Warrier — Executive Director
Sure. Thanks for that. I think two parts to it. One insofar as our organic credit card portfolio is concerned which is our own portfolio which is growing at a good rate, from the directions, there are a range of items which RBI has introduced in the new direction, primarily driven by the need for transparency from a customer standpoint, making it easier for customers, making it more convenient for customers, examples being you can change your billing cycle, you need to, if it’s not been activated within 30 days it needs an OTP to do it, etcetera, etcetera. So there are about maybe about 10 or so items which are timely, operationally required to be delivered on none of which we find challenging from a delivery perspective, yes, it will potentially increase a little bit of the cost of processing. But in the overall interest of customer stickiness and growing balances and getting the credit cards and trusted instruments, I think that’s a good balance to strike. So that’s on the organic one.
Insofar as the co-branded one is concerned, we have a partnership with FPL and that’s the partnership that has been live for about 8 or 9 months now. From our standpoint FPL currency plays a role of both — its a promoting and acquiring cards for us as a brand partner for us, as a co-brand partners to the entity also plays a role as an outpost TSP or technology service provider under that role FPL ensures end-to-end customer experience, mobile first kind of customer experience.
The master direction has made certain areas are little more explicit in terms of what can be done not done et cetera with the co-brand side of it as well as the TSP side of it, we don’t believe any of them are showstoppers if any kind, but we do believe that we will be able to deliver on this with our partners. So we’re quite as we stand right now with a couple of months more left for the implementation date, we are quite confident that the trajectory will continue. So both ends, we’ve had a fairly detailed look at it and we do believe that it is in the general health of the industry, I think both are business, I mean the measures are good. And we can deliver on this.
Gaurav Jani — Prabhudas Lilladher — Analyst
Ma’am, just one question on the credit card growth a bit. So considering, we are looking at, again, rising interest rate environment. Should we sort of assume that had to sort of slow down our growth or how should we look at obviously a low base, but I mean
Shalini Warrier — Executive Director
No, we have a low base, so we exactly what’s the revenue base and also the overall credit card penetration in the country all of us know is still very, very small. Right. So, I personally don’t think you will see any material slowdown in the credit card book because the penetration is so low in the industry as a whole. And for us, the base is anyway still small that we have an opportunity to grow. What could potentially get impacted is within that we obviously look at revolvers as well as revolvers on the outstanding as well as those using balance transferring the balance to anyone, that may see a little bit of reduction but honestly in the, for us it means the portfolio be small. We still see a growth there.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
I’d just add what Shalini said Gaurav. In the only product which is reasonably rate agnostic is credit cards. So rising rate doesn’t necessarily mean because they are already at 24-25 if the revolving guys already paying that rate.
Gaurav Jani — Prabhudas Lilladher — Analyst
Sure, That helps, sir. Thank you. Just a final one, if I can squeeze in. One is what percentage of our liabilities, what sort of mature within one year. And the update on the flexing and listening space. Thanks.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Fedfina I have nothing to add than what I had said, SEBI is yet to come up with the approval and then post that the company has a year to list. So there is no timeline date for it. On liability, what was the question, the profile that is maturing?
Gaurav Jani — Prabhudas Lilladher — Analyst
Yes, what proportion of the liabilities would mature say by FY23 within a year from now?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
That’s in the fixed deposit portfolio, right? Ashutosh or Venkat, anything that you want — you can share on the top of your head?
Ashutosh Khajuria — Executive Director
Sorry. What’s the query?
Gaurav Jani — Prabhudas Lilladher — Analyst
Yeah from an ALM standpoint, what proportion of the liabilities would mature within one year.
Ashutosh Khajuria — Executive Director
So I think on the term deposit side, nearly 60% to 65% of term deposits have the original maturity of one year. So nearly 2-3rd of the term deposits original maturity of one year. So remaining maturity could be few days to 12 months.
Gaurav Jani — Prabhudas Lilladher — Analyst
Okay, got it, thanks.
Anand Dama — Emkay Global — Analyst
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anand Dama from Emkay Global. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you, sir for the opportunity. Sir, the housing book and the PL book both have declined on a quarter-on-quarter basis. Is there any reclassification which has happened.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
See I had mentioned, there is an error and reporting their chief sorry, that needs to be corrected.
Anand Dama — Emkay Global — Analyst
Yeah. But on the personal loan side, I think their last quarter also, we had said that basically
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Personal loans had decline, rate of growth has slowed down because we did not grow that business aggressively in FY22 for for the purpose of credit quality and comfort that we get. We see that happening going into FY 23.
Anand Dama — Emkay Global — Analyst
But Shyam basically when we look at other banks you know be it HDFC, ICICI and all they are all growing into the personal loan segment which they believe is largely, mainly focused on the captive customers. So what really makes us so concerned about that book?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Anand I think the question on why they are growing or why we are not doing, we can only answer, we are not — why we did not push that hard for the very reasons that we tightened our criteria for existing customers. We do only pre-approved digitally originated personal loans which are growing at about 100 crores a month pre-COVID, during COVID we tightened the criteria quite materially. So the book started running down. The backfilling of the book is now running at about INR60 crores a month. as we go into a way now, getting more comfortable with the environment. So we’re unleashing some of the parameters back so growth will come back.
Anand Dama — Emkay Global — Analyst
Okay. And so when we said that we are looking to grow at somewhere about 15% or so. I mean, even at the top end about 20 odd percent, so how will retail look like and how will basically cooperative look like.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Businesses like credit cards personal loans will grow. I mean, credit card will grow well above 100% or even more because the base is small. Personal loans which is close to about INR2000 crores book will grow at about 18% to 20% this year.
Anand Dama — Emkay Global — Analyst
Okay. And how about mortgages because that book also, in fact if you look at the other bank, they have been growing at a much faster pace.
Venkatraman Venkateswaran — Group President & Chief Financial Officer
Just on the previous question, roughly 40% of the liabilities mature in next one year. Just wanted to make that point there.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Sorry, Anand?
Anand Dama — Emkay Global — Analyst
I have a question on mortgages front. So why are
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
That 40% is natural, you know Venkat because you remove nearly 40% of CASA the remaining one if you take 60% of that, I mean, almost 2-3rd of the remaining 60% comes to 40%. So that’s the same number remains the same.
Venkatraman Venkateswaran — Group President & Chief Financial Officer
Okay.
Anand Dama — Emkay Global — Analyst
Shyam, the question was on mortgages, so what kind of growth rate are we looking at in that segment?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
This year we grew close to 14%. We think that will grow it back to the last — previous year we grew at about 18%. We think that will happen.
Anand Dama — Emkay Global — Analyst
And on the corporate front?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Corporate business, I mentioned a while ago. We grew this year more at the backend. We started growing. We believe this coming financial year, we should grow well into the early teens. But I would be cautious about the opportunity in terms of pricing. So we will pick that we’ll be picky and choosy, last year we sanctioned but does not disbursed INR3,000 crores of corporate credit. If we had disbursed it, we would have had another 3% growth, but we chose not to. Harsh, am I right?
Harsh Dugar — Group President & Country Head – Wholesale Banking
We had, that’s right. You are right, Shyam. We had done that. And apart from that we had done some sell down of assets which is another 2.5% of the corporate portfolio.
Anand Dama — Emkay Global — Analyst
Which means that the portfolio mix is going to shift more towards retail and I think SME. In that case, we should see a margin uptake?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, I mean, we said 55.45 retail wholesale. Within retail, we will have a higher mix of higher margin businesses. Likewise in wholesale and commercial banking will pick up. We’ve also said the portfolio NIM will move up to 325 or so. So, I must add that 10 basis points from 359 basis point increase on a whole portfolio of INR130,000 crores is a lot of heavy lifting to do work.
Anand Dama — Emkay Global — Analyst
Okay. Thanks, Shyam.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Welcome.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Darpin Shah from Haitong Securities, please go ahead.
Darpin Shah — Haitong Securities — Analyst
Yeah. Thanks. All my questions have been answered.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
I think, operator, we should bring this to a close. There are no other major questions?
Operator
We have few participants in the queue, sir. If you allow me I can promote them.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Sure, Please go ahead. Maybe we can here, whatever is in the queue. We can close out.
Operator
Sure. The next question is from the line of Jay Mundra from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Jay Mundra — B&K Securities — Analyst
Yeah, hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. On your exit ROE sir, adjusting for this family pension, we would have been done 1.24 – 1.25 which of course we had said earlier, if you can refresh this exit guidance on exit basis or may be full-year basis for the next one, two year.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
We have said at 1.25 two financial years out and we are still holding to that. We think FY23 will be closer to 1.1 to 1.12 to 1.13.
Jay Mundra — B&K Securities — Analyst
Sorry. So for full-year basis. Right?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Exit ROA. For full year, it will be about 1.07. 1.08, from 5 basis points more for the just now.
Jay Mundra — B&K Securities — Analyst
Sure. And sir, within which credit cost, if I see for this year, what you have reported is 45 basis point do you, I mean do you see any more scope to lower it or there should be a movement?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
This will be reasonably optimum at this point in time, 45 or so. Because I don’t see, I mean we are working to an improvement on that, but let me be honest we will pad up a little, in case things work in favor of us.
Jay Mundra — B&K Securities — Analyst
Right. And the last 2 questions, sir. On restructuring. So how much of the, I mean the performance looks decent and I think you’ve also mentioned 95% collections, but just wanted to check our the entire book out of moratorium and maybe how many customers are paying in full et cetera if you can share some [Technical Issues]
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Our Head of Collections has done a PhD in it. So Babu if are there, you can just quickly give a one minute answer to this.
Babu K A — — Analyst
Yeah. [Indecipherable] quality book as in the case of our normal asset book that’s why this better collection is happening and the slippages also come down. 40% of the book is already there coming the demand book in March and there we are doing well. So looking forward also we are confident that we’ll be able to flow somewhere on those slides. In terms of exact number of customers right now I don’t have the exact number with me but the 40% of the NPL book has come in the demand book in March and there we have done well in the support of the quality of our book as well as customers.,
Jay Mundra — B&K Securities — Analyst
I am sorry I actually I could not hear much but did you say that 40% of the book has started billing, right?
Ashutosh Khajuria — Executive Director
There was not moratorium. So once that moratorium is over.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
You’re right, 40% has chart billing, that’s what is the demand book. Yes.
Ashutosh Khajuria — Executive Director
See, the percent of the book has demand in it and there it has performed quite well.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Yeah.
Jay Mundra — B&K Securities — Analyst
Right, right. And the same thing for ECIGS, if you can share what is the outstanding and how are you seeing trends there.
Babu K A — — Analyst
There [Indecipherable] is also doing well for us other than that of the last quarter. The ECL book right now [Indecipherable] slippages right is far below the average slippage right off the bank. Then by quarter-by-quarter it is doing well.
Jay Mundra — B&K Securities — Analyst
Right So, what is the amount sir, INR3,000 crore or something else?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
4300.
Jay Mundra — B&K Securities — Analyst
4-3, right 4300?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Yeah.
Jay Mundra — B&K Securities — Analyst
So that is actually, if I look at my numbers, it looks like it has increased from last quarter, is that right?
Babu K A — — Analyst
Yeah. And a little more disbursements are also there from a CECL there was — they’ve been extended regulatory direction was there. So something more of a dispersed including that,shortage identified.
Jay Mundra — B&K Securities — Analyst
Understood, sir. Yeah, thank you so much, sir.
Babu K A — — Analyst
Thank you.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Dhaval Gala from Aditya Birla Sun Life. Please go ahead.
Dhaval Gala — Aditya Birla Sun Life — Analyst
Thank you, sir for the opportunity. I think you’ve already answered partly on net interest margin. Just wanted to understand a bit of outlook on your net interest margins for say next 12 months and medium term.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
No I think you heard right. We are talking of going up from where we are for Q4 or average basis 3.25 FY22 by moving by 570 basis points in FY23 on an average basis.
Dhaval Gala — Aditya Birla Sun Life — Analyst
Okay and just you mentioned about that F23, we could see monetization from a lot of your FinTech partnerships. If you could elaborate when and what should we look at what line item would we see?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
No I think it’s not a line item. the incremental cost income on this portfolio, we are looking at for every one rupee spend we should on 1.5 rupees.
Dhaval Gala — Aditya Birla Sun Life — Analyst
Okay.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
We are looking at higher but at the minimum what we will push.
Dhaval Gala — Aditya Birla Sun Life — Analyst
Income or it would be part of both margins as well as fee?
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
It was, see we are building deposits that will come into the interest income portfolio. And on the credit cards, it will be largely fee income. Actually mix it will be income and interest rate.
Dhaval Gala — Aditya Birla Sun Life — Analyst
Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prashant Kumar from Sunidhi Securities, please go ahead.
Prashant Kumar — Sunidhi Securities — Analyst
Hi, thanks for the opportunity sir. Just one quick on one data point, on asset quality side, if I calculate by calculation the addition for FY22 is roughly around INR1840 crores and reduction is on my calculation INR2346 crore and write-off is around 800. See, I need need breakup of upgrade and recovery if it is handy.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
It’s in the deck. All our numbers are there in the deck. By quarter, you will find this.
Prashant Kumar — Sunidhi Securities — Analyst
Yes sir. just upgrade and recovery bifurcation, if I can get it.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
You mean the split up between upgrade and recovery?
Prashant Kumar — Sunidhi Securities — Analyst
Yes.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Babu, would you have it or not?
Babu K A — — Analyst
Yeah, Excluding this 800, there was a sale of 70, the [Indecipherable]
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
No, he is talking of full year, full year number he is talking about?
Babu K A — — Analyst
The full year, let me check. I will get back.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Maybe you can put that as a number in the deck, so that everybody will have access to it.. You can put it in deck and in slide 7, we’ll update it.
Babu K A — — Analyst
[Indecipherable] I do have a total number 258, is the spread and recovery. And then, AFC total full year 275 and 800 is [Indecipherable]
Prashant Kumar — Sunidhi Securities — Analyst
Sorry Again, please repeat.
Babu K A — — Analyst
1257 recovery and upgradation, full. That is more than that of the last financial year or maybe for recent year this is volume.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Babu, they are asking about the breakup of recovery and upgrade. How much is
Babu K A — — Analyst
666 is recovery 591 is upgradation.
[Speech Overlap]
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Okay. Fine.I think, operator, we should bring it to a close please.
Operator
Sure. I now hand the conference over to Mr Anand Chugh for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Anand Chugh — Head Investor Relations
Yeah. Thank you so much everyone for being on the call and participating quite actively. We look connect back with you probably next quarter. Thank you so much.
Shyam Srinivasan — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Thanks everybody.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks]