Tatva Chintan Pharma Chem Limited (NSE: TATVA) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 05, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Dinesh Sodani — GM Finance
Ajesh Pillai — Investor Relations
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah — Chairman and Managing Director
Ashok Bothra — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Sanjesh Jain — Analyst
Sudarshan Padmanabhan — Analyst
Vipin Goel — Analyst
Darshil Jhaveri — Analyst
Chetan Thakar — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Tatwa Chintan Pharma Chem Ltd. Q4FY25 earnings conference call hosted by ICICI Securities Ltd. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchdown phone. Please note that this conference has been recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sanjesh Jain. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Sanjesh Jain — Analyst
Thanks Avirat. Good afternoon everyone. Thank you for joining on Tatva chintan swarma chem ltd q4FY25 results conference call. We have Tatva Chintan Management on the call represented by Mr. Chintan Shah, Managing Director Mr. Ashok Bhotra, Chief Financial Officer Mr. Rajesh Pillai, Investor Relations. I would like to invite Mr. Dinesh Sodani, AGM Finance to initiate with opening remarks post which we will have Q and A session. Over to you Dineshdi.
Dinesh Sodani — GM Finance
Thank you Sandraji. Good evening everyone. On behalf of the management, I am pleased to welcome all of you to Takistan Fund’s result conference call to discuss financial results for the quarter and year ended March 2025. Please note that a copy of all the earning call related disclosure is available on both the stock exchanges that is NSE and BSE and as well as on the website of the company. Any statement made or discussed during this call which reflects our outlook for the future or which could be construed as a forward looking statement must be reviewed in conjunction with the risks that the company faces.
A detailed disclaimer in this regard has been included in the investor presentation that has been shared on both desktop singles that is NSE and bse. Now I will hand over the call to our Investor Relations Officer Mr. Ajay Tillai for his opening remarks. Over to you Ajayji.
Ajesh Pillai — Investor Relations
Thank you Dineshee. Good evening everyone. It is my pleasure to welcome you all to the quarter four of financial year 2025 earnings call of Tatuchinpan PharmaCam Ltd. The details of which have already been. Shared with the stock exchanges and are available on our corporate website. This evening I’ll walk you through the key financial metrics and segment wide highlights for the quarter. In Q4 of financial year 2025, Tatva Chintan reported revenue from operations of Rupees 1,079 million representing a 10% year on year growth and a robust 26% increase quarterly basis. EBITDA for the quarter stood at 90 million, reflecting a 43% decline compared to the same quarter last year and a 27% increase quarter on quarter. Now let me briefly share the segment wide performance fee strands for Catalyst. This segment delivered revenue of Rupees 389 million, marking a strong 32% quarterly growth and an impressive 43% increase year on year.
Coming to Electrolyte Source, the segment generated Rs 9 million in revenue representing a 65% decline quarter on quarter and a 36% decline year on year. Pharma and Agro Intermediate and Specialty Chemicals this segment maintained its positive momentum with revenue reaching 327 million, up 10% quarter on quarter and 17% year on year. Structured Directing Agents the SBA segment recorded a revenue of Rupees 346 million, showing a 51% quarterly growth, though down 15% compared to the same quarter last year. With that, I would like to invite Our Managing Director, Mr. Chintan Shah to share further insights on the company’s strategic direction and broader outlook.
Thank you. Over to you sir.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah — Chairman and Managing Director
Thank you. Good evening everyone and a warm welcome to our earnings call. Let me take you through the key developments and strategic directions we have taken during the past year and would like to walk you through what lies ahead for Tatvo children. Today. I want to start on a positive note informing you all that we strongly feel the worst is behind us and we optimistically look forward to a good future. The last financial year at Tuplo Simpson was marked by a mix of challenges and transitions. We navigated a tough macroeconomic environment, particularly in key export markets where subdued demand, extended inventory, destocking cycles and geopolitical developments impacted performance across segments.
Despite these external pressures, we maintained our strategic course, deepening customer relationships, expanding product offerings and continuing to invest in future ready capacities. Our commitment to innovation and sustainability remained strong and we made notable progress in customer onboarding and various product validations. Internally, the focus was very clear strengthen the operational efficiency, invest in future and prepare the organization for the next phase of growth. As we step into the new financial year, we remain cautiously optimistic. Destocking trends and fall of prices that impacted volumes are gradually stabilizing. Clear signs of demand upticks are visible, so I firmly believe that we have better times ahead.
Encouragingly, we are seeing clear signs of recovery in customer inquiries and gradually becoming confident of uptick in demand in coming quarters. New customer acquisition and product developments also provide a strong foundation for revival in top line. Furthermore, strategic initiatives in capacity expansion and R and D are aimed at positioning us for long term growth. We anticipate a year of good growth with strong recovery visible in second half. Our long term structural growth drivers remain intact and we are committed to creating value for all our stakeholders. At Tatvaj Incan, we see the future not just as a recovery, but as an opportunity to emerge stronger, leaner and more aligned with the evolving needs of our global customers.
Let me take you through Segment Wise Outlook Phase Transfer Catalyst Our PTC business continues to demonstrate steady performance with the growing adoption of PTC across the broader chemical industry. This segment represents a consistently growing and expanding market. Our standing as a preferred supplier of specialized PTCs positions us well to capitalize on these opportunities. We are witnessing a gradual but sustained increase in demand, supported further by positive traction from new customers onboarded in last year. As shared in our earlier calls, we had begun observing early indicators of a potential recovery in demand and I am pleased to report that these green shoots have started to materialize gradually over the past few months.
Customer engagement has improved meaningfully and we are seeing a consistent uptick in demand volumes. Furthermore, we will witness uptake from customers who approved our product during last couple of years. This development combined with the approaching Euro 7 implementation provides a strong tailwind for growth. Based on these encouraging trends. We remain optimistic that this is segment will continue to be a stable and significant contributor to the company’s overall performance in the coming years. Electrolyte Salts the customers using our electrolyte for energy storage device has been gaining momentum and the volumes have started to pick up from the first quarter of FY26.
Besides the electrolyte salts for energy storage devices, our pilot scale sample for the third product required to make an electrolyte solution to make a solution from the electrolyte so we need a base material so the product required to make the electrolyte solution has now been formally approved by the customer. We are now undergoing minor modifications to our existing setup to incorporate commercial supply for this high purity material required for making the electrolyte solutions. We will be sending commercial scale material for final validation of the product in Q2 of FY26. This marks a meaningful step forward in deepening our engagement with this key account and also enabling us to do a step forward from electrolyte salt to electrolyte solutions.
Additionally, our qualification process with another strategic customer who is involved in manufacturing batteries for hybrid vehicles is progressing well. We have not received any adverse feedback in terms of quality from them, which reinforces our confidence in the robustness of our offering and our alignment with their technical expectations. Given these developments, we anticipate that this segment will continue to grow steadily. More importantly, we see it evolving into a long term value contributor for the company aligned with global trends towards electrification and sustainable mobility. PASC it gives me immense pleasure to share a significant milestone in PASC segment.
We have secured a bulk commercial order for one of our major agro intermediates marking a crucial step forward in this vertical. The commercial supplies for this product will commence in the third quarter of FY26. This development is expected to make a substantial contribution to our top line in this financial year and also increasingly in the coming years. This is result of our innovative approach which has enabled us to invent a new alternative route of synthesis using our catalytic technologies. It has created a win win situation for us as well as our customer establishing a sustainable supply chain.
Foreseeing the high market potential of this product, we are accelerating the construction work of our new facility which will undertake its production. We expect the facility to be ready by the end of third quarter to fulfill the anticipated future demand of this product. Simultaneously, the approval process for a second agro intermediate is advancing positively. We remain confident that this too will translate into commercial success within the current within the upcoming financial year. Additionally, the commercial supply of third Agro intermediate will begin in current financial year and witness an increased uptake in coming years and the validation of fourth Agro intermediate is under progress.
With this, our agro portfolio is poised to emerge as a strong pillar of growth for the company in coming quarters and future years. The development process of another two agro products is progressing well and we expect to commence piloting validation and approval for this product within the current financial year. On the pharma intermediate front, we have made commercial supplies for the first two products. Our customer will utilize these materials to conduct validation for their product. For the other two pharma products, intermediate validation is progressing very smoothly. Flame Retardants the challenges in flame retardant market are continuously increasing and it does not make yet a prudent commercial sense to start commercially producing them.
So we have decided to withheld the production and production of these products. Further, with the commercialization of our agro intermediates, the capacity allocation of these products are going to be consumed completely. The company is stepping up its game by significantly enhancing its technological and manufacturing capabilities, particularly in a very specialized area of high purity chemicals. For semiconductor industry traditionally seen as a formidable challenge for us, this domain demands an exceptional degree of precision and quality control. We are proud to share that Kathwajintan has made remarkable progress in this area through persistent RD efforts. What was once considered an ambitious goal has now become a reality, with our capabilities being recognized by global customers who see us as uniquely positioned to deliver on this demanding requirement.
The journey to this point has not been easy. It involved years of meticulous research trials and process innovation. However, our success in this space is a testament to our technical depth, resilience and unwavering commitment to pushing boundaries. This development is more than just a technological milestone. It has the potential to be a game changer for the company. We firmly believe that this will pave the path for Turquoise Impun to emerge as a key player in the niche yet rapidly growing field of ultra pure chemicals for semiconductors and electronic applications. As we wrap up a year that tested the resilience of the chemical industry, we are encouraged by the positive momentum building across several segments with FY25 demanded caution and adaptability.
It also allowed us to sharpen our focus, strengthen our operations and invest in future growth levers. Looking ahead, FY26 is poised to be a turnaround year with new products entering into commercialization phase, demand improving across key markets and capacity utilization forecasted to increase at significant levels. We anticipate a good top line growth in this year coupled with better operating leverage, it is expected to drive meaningful improvement in EBITDA levels. Our foray into ultra high purity chemistry for the semiconductor industry signals a bold and strategic shift, one that positions Pathwork Income as a differentiated player both in India and globally.
Backed by strong R and D, expanding customer interest and a diversified product pipeline, we are confident in delivering sustainable value to all our stakeholders in the years ahead. Thank you for your continued trust and support. With this, I hand over the proceedings to our CFO, Mr. Ashok Ghotraji.
Ashok Bothra — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you sir and good evening to everyone present on our call today. The financial highlights for the quarter current quarter Q4FY25 versus Q4FY24RL Revenue from operation of 1079 million versus 983 million in Q4FY24 EBITDA of 90 million versus 156 million in Q4FY20 EBITDA margin at 8.3% versus 15.9% in Q4FY24 of 10 million versus 96 million in FY24 at margin at 1% against 9.8% in the same previous quarter during Q4 25 FY25 at 4002.62 million consumed around 61% of the revenue. The financial highlights for FY25H FY24 are as below. Revenue from operation of 3827 million versus 3955 million in FY24 EBITDA of 342 million versus 682 million in FY24 EBITDA margin at 8.9% versus 17.3% in FY24 PAT of 57 million versus 304 million in FY24 FED margin at 1.5% versus 7.7% in the same tier period previous year.
That concludes an update on the financial highlights of the I shall now request the moderator to open the for question.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press CHAR and one on the Touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press char and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Sudarshan Pajmanaban from Ask ndpms. Please go ahead.
Sudarshan Padmanabhan
Thank you for taking my question. Sir, my question is to understand a little bit more about your fixed cost and operating leverage. If I look at your numbers specifically on a Q on Q basis, there is an improvement by and large on all the key segments subsegments, almost 85 crores, 86 crores going to 105 crores. But when I’m looking at the absolute margins, the margins remain flat. Partly I understand that there is gross profit which has come down probably because of the mix, but also the other cost has kind of moved from 24 crores to 27 and a half crores on a quarter basis.
So can you elaborate a bit on the fixed cost structure and also when you’re talking about next year, the operating leverage, what is the kind of margins that one should expect?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
This was one particular unique quarter where we actually commercially produced all the four agro intermediates. The new agro intermediates in really ton lots. So we executed one product with 40 metric tons as a commercial supply. So that was one. Then two new products, one of which for which we got the order recently. So these two products required formal qualification for which they urgently wanted some 2040 metric tons of these products and the third product which is entering into commercial validation. So so that was also produced during this quarter. So this was one.
And the two products which they required for final formal qualification, this was not anticipated earlier from the customer. So everything came like an urgent demand to be done. Secondly, there was always a business sense in deciding whether we want to postpone this commercial validation or we want to do it fast so that the product can be actually commercialized early. So we opted that let us go with early validation of this battery so that the commercial business can eventually start within the coming financial year. And we proved right on that impact. So post that qualification, we now got the final formal order to execute on a commercial scale.
So, but by saying this, what has happened is all these four products produced simultaneously, not meticulously planned, well planned in advance, has led to a lot of operational inefficiencies. Number one, a large cost in terms of whether we had the time to recover and reuse the solvents, which we did. So we wanted to maintain the timeline. We had to let go of those solvents without reusing, and every batch is we had to add fresh solvents. Number two, distilling all the four products at a time, the efficiencies were impacted because these are all tbing problems, if you can understand simultaneously, such large molecules are getting into commercialization.
So we face lot of such technical inefficiencies, some technical issues, some infrastructural issues related to significantly not having utilities at the right place at the right time of the right quality. So this takes its time to get certified and corrected. So I would say the quarter in which we made these all four new products in larger volumes, which actually is contributing to our growth in terms of revenue as well, was not produced the way it is designed to be. So there were certain inefficiencies which factored into this, which led to higher cost in terms of material consumption, and at times, certain lower efficiencies in terms of conversion.
So once these problems are identified, each of these is being taken care of one after another. And the necessary rectifications, if required, changes of pumps, motors, some inefficiencies in terms of putting drying of the right temperature at the right place. So all those infrastructural issues are currently being taken care of so that we can get rid of all these tubing issues one after another. I would say it would take us at least three to six months to really master the production of these items. These are, we are talking of very large volume products and lengthy chemistries involving multiple chemistries, multiple technologies.
So of course, I should give my team a bit of time, keep some patience to let them master this art, and then start delivering the processes as they are designed. So I would say I’m not concerned with a couple of quotes here or there in terms of raw material consumption for this product. But it’s a part of the learning and commercialization of the product process. So I would request to be patient, let them do their task, give them a three to four month time window and I’m sure we will overcome all these operational issues and start delivering the raw material cost consumption as it is designed for the process.
Sudarshan Padmanabhan
And in terms of the learning curve, I mean, now that, you know, I would have assumed that you would have spent a few months, you know, in manufacturing these three products, you know, how do we, you know. Yes, sir, can you hear me now? Hello?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Yeah, yeah.
Sudarshan Padmanabhan
So I’m just trying to understand in. Terms of learning curve now that, you know, almost one quarter is passed and you know, we are probably the next quarter. I mean, how do we see this operational efficiency? I mean, I am not exactly asking in terms of, you know, the steps, what we have been able to correct, but if, you know, I am assuming.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Sorry to interrupt, just to give you a flavor, to make you understand what I am talking about. For example, in one stage we had defined the conversion has to be at 88% to the desired product. We ended at 82%. Then there is the Bayes analysis that happens and why it did not perform up to 88%. So they are finding that the desired temperature, for example, 3 degrees, but we were operating at 6 degrees because the pumping efficiency was not good enough to remove the heat. So we did the processes at 6 degrees. And if we run it at 60 degrees, we are resulting into certain impurities which are not wanted.
So now what happens is you are sitting on 6 PER of impurities. But eventually what it translates into, when we distill the product, the 6% impurity removal, extra 6% impurity removal takes another 3, 4% of your useful product also with it. So though the conversion may look only 3 or 4% poor, the output will convert into 6 or 7% imperiality. So these are the technical issues which we face, we identify in one after another. We are sorting out them. So I probably believe by end of June, most of the processes we should be on the optimum level.
And despite of that, since we already now have the order, it was already verbally permitted by the customer that this is coming your way. And as you know, we are still constructing the new plant where we can go to full capacity. So we continue to produce even as of today. So with all these ongoing modifications, the process is still on. Production goes on to pile up the inventory. Otherwise we will not be able to complete the desired order. So the first priority is to execute the order on time of the desired quality and cost factors will gradually be taken care of within the next three to four months time frame.
Sudarshan Padmanabhan
Sure, sir. And sir, you know, if I’m trying to understand the of the Agri intermediate, specifically the three products that we’re talking about, I would first assume that it is for the innovator and for product which could be very large. I’m just trying to understand what could be the scale, say in the next two, three, four years. Because if it is in the patent, you also have a longer Runway of growth.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
The global volume of these products is very high. It’s a capex intensive product. What we have delivered to customer is Tatwa is the first company globally to produce it commercially by an alternative route of synthesis. So this is where we are bringing our catalytic technology in play on this product which has helped us to achieve this milestone. So all the rest of the companies offering this product offer it via different route of synthesis and we have a process which is more sustainable for a long term supply. So this is the biggest milestone that we achieved by establishing this process which we are the first company globally to achieve it and to commercialize it.
Secondly, in terms of scalability, so this product definitely there are still lot of things that we can do with this product. Certain byproducts have to create values. So this is a long way see for suppliers income, we are looking at potentially increasing 50% of our top line just by this single product. So when we are talking of that volume with a given customer base, so it’s a large volume product that we are entering into the database. So you will have downstream lot of by products, lot of efficiency improvement in terms of how much solvent you are able to recover and reuse, how much other ingredients you are able to recover and reuse or recover and sell it more efficiently.
So these all things will gradually become a part of the development process which is what we can isolate, we can create a value out of it. So all those background work right now going on in R and D piloting, so all those development work is going on talking to different set of customers who can utilize the byproduct. So all those activities will continue in the background and the real worth of this product should probably be visible within a year’s time. But this is definitely a very large scalable product. You can go to multiple customers, multiple markets to sell the product and we have some uniqueness in the process.
So despite of being a smaller company in terms of Competition. We strongly believe that we will hold our position in this market just because of the technology that we could establish.
Sudarshan Padmanabhan
And what about the other products? I would assume the other products will be over and above the spice that you talked about.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
So they are not this big. So each molecule that we have selected, ranging between 30 to 75 crores potential.
Sudarshan Padmanabhan
You know, coming to the.
Ashok Bothra
Just to add to it, these all will scale up in three years. Right. The customer is not going to give me full. What do you mean? Year one. So year one, two, year two and year three will go to full scale.
Sudarshan Padmanabhan
Sure. So we have a Runway of growth if, you know, we are able to execute the products as for what we think, I mean, there is at least two, three years, kind of a long run.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Yeah, two years.
Sudarshan Padmanabhan
So coming to fda, I mean, what we have seen consistently is the prices were coming down, which is why our prices are also coming down, you know, now last, you know, we have seen some kind of an uptick and your commentary also is talking about it. If you can give some color, you know, with respect to, you know, one, what is the utilization that you are seeing in SBA currently? And second is what is the kind of scale up that one can expect given, you know, the DS7 is also getting implemented.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Right. So what we anticipate in terms of seas is see, unfortunately, as you all know, the product prices have dropped and still they continue to remain at the same level. So there is still no uptick in terms of raw material pricing, which I am suspecting very strongly will happen, but it has not happened so far. So considering that we are remaining at the same value levels in terms of product pricing, same value levels in terms of raw material costing, but in terms of revenue that this can bring in would range between 50% to 70% growth, 40 to 70% growth in terms of volume and value.
So this is poised to grow significantly within the coming financial year. More than products. Both things, as I told on my previous speech, is both things are going to be the factor in this growth. One is commercialization of the new customers taking up commercial supplies from this financial year and also the impact of increasing demand of the BS17€17. So both these factors, and I see a good pathway in terms of the basic shift that has again gradually happened for the customer vehicle. Also the passenger vehicles is again a shift from purely electric to a hybrid system.
So the IC engine seems to stay even in the passenger vehicle. So this will continue to maintain the momentum. And of course the heavy duty vehicles continue to remain strong. So again, a Strong recovery is not on the horizon. Very strong what we saw in 21 or 22. The reason is because China is still not coming up in the radar in terms of increasing demand. So that is one key issue which the industry, automotive industry continues to face in terms of heavy duty vehicle demands. But the European and American sectors have shown significant improvement.
Sudarshan Padmanabhan
So one final question before I join.
operator
May we request that you return to the question queue for follow up question as there are several participants waiting for the turn. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vipin Goel from Mirabilis Invest. Please go ahead.
Vipin Goel
Thank you for the opportunities And I had a question regarding the FDA demand arrival specifically from China. I think you mentioned some comment also. So the question is that are you aware that there is a structural shift that is happening in the Chinese heavy duty truck market because in 2024 some 50% of the new heavy duty truck seats were lng which was practically almost 033 and a half years back. And this has been largely driven by cheap piped gas which is coming from Russia which has basically led to implications on new diesel truck sales and hence probably low FDA demand from that market.
So are we aware of this?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Yes. So basically what had happened is because of the cheap, cheap fuel gas available from Russia being provided to China. So a lot of the heavy duty trucks market moved on to the gas segment. So this was the key impact which resulted into reduced demand for SEAS or the IC engines in the Chinese market. What has fortunately happened over the last few months is the gas prices have increased gradually started to increase and simultaneously the crude prices have started to drop. So when I’m talking to my customers as of today, so everyone is very closely monitoring the situation and it seems like a influx point where again the demand will start moving from the gas to the ICMGs.
So this I am not considering as a part in terms of what I want to forecast but we are definitely very optimistic that this switch will happen sometime very soon and the whole industry as such per se is expecting that switch to happen.
Vipin Goel
So you’re saying the switch that happened just two years back and from 0% LNG sustains to 50% now.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Sorry, I was not in this field since lot many years but when I talk to my customers I understand that over the span of last 25 years such incidences have happened three times. This is the third incident where suddenly the markets move to gas when the gas products became cheap and again switched back to fuel when the gas prices started to rise. So this is not the one time Incident. This is the third time that the industry has seen this phenomenon. I am observing this for the first time.
Vipin Goel
Got it. And if I were to gauge a quantify the impact of BIPs on our SBA portfolio. So I suppose we had a large Chinese customer which has not come back to those original volumes. So let’s say if you were to come back and this cycle was to reverse, which might take at least three, four more years, if this were to. Come back
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
at the peak time when we were selling into the China market of the total SBAs. Don’t get me precisely on this number. I’m just giving you a ballpark number. Our exports into China for SBA was close to about 40% of the overall SBAs we were selling. So it has a significant impact. So if the things start cutting back, it will significantly impact the volumes. Very significantly.
Vipin Goel
Also one observation, given this is such a significant structural change, maybe OKCP failed, if you want to call it. But could this insight have been practically communicated to analysts and investors in the past quarterly calls?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Because this is one kind of realization. This is one realization which we also understood about five to six months back that what is actually happening in the Chinese market. And we kept on studying these numbers of what is selling. But my end customer always felt that this is not the reason related to the drop in demand. They always felt the reason related is because potentially they have a different way to treat their environment and stuff like that. But this all turned out to be false. The real reason behind it definitely turned out to switch from IC to the gas engine.
And now the reversal is what they are anticipating should happen at any time. And I am also strongly hoping that it happens, it’s good for our business.
Vipin Goel
Then probably we need to study the risky again and see if this has happened earlier or not. Because if the customer is positive that this has happened three times, happened twice in the past.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Okay, I think that one of times in the past.
Vipin Goel
Okay, great. Sir, I think this is it for the question I have. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sanjay Jain from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Sanjesh Jain
Thanks for taking my question first on the agrochemical because we are talking about 60 to 70% growth in the STA for this year assuming prices being stable.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Which is my case is basically 40 to 70 to 70%.
Sanjesh Jain
But in our presentation we have talked about total growth of 25%. That means other segments are expected to grow much slower. How to, how to see this?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Basically in terms of growth, if we see so PPC is technically expanding 10 to 12% on a year. And electrolyte salt itself, the segment is small. So even if it grows at 200% it will not have a very significant impact on the line. So we expect the electrolyte salt segment to grow by at least 200% this year. But what significant impact will it have? Is hardly anything because it will go from, let us say from 6 crores to 23, 25, 26 crores in terms of revenue is what we forecast. So though in terms of numbers it looks, though in terms of percentage it looks huge.
In terms of value it doesn’t look so significant. So what is growing is in terms of SBA and EIC both growing at about 40 to 50 percentage is what we anticipate. Got it, got it. And PTC will be a consistent growth through the year. Whereas PASC, with the kind of schedule we have been provided today, the growth will reflect from Q3 and Q4 because Q1, Q2 will just keep on producing so that we are able to dispatch in Q3. So we will be producing.
Sanjesh Jain
So assuming that this kind of 25% is a ballpark, 500 crores of top line, we should be shipping what a significant portion of utilization in the plant or we can optimize still further to extract more value out of it.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Yeah. So those gaps, that is what I was talking to right now to the first call. What I said is those are the gaps which are being identified how to increase the process efficiency where we can see. Basically let us say if I am sending a water of 6 degrees at a certain pressure and if I am able to send 3 degrees water at a more higher pressure, then my cooling times comes down, then my reactions become faster. So these are the things which are being now understood, taken care of modifications are going on to increase those process efficiency.
So I would not claim that this is going to be optimum. There are a lot of scopes to improve your processes, improve your performance, improve your yields and improve utilization of your byproduct.
Sanjesh Jain
Got it. My next question is on the PTC side itself. In the last quarter we said that we have added two new customers. One for the polymer, special polymer and for the recycling. And I thought that could aid the growth. For FY26 haven’t the material is being.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Delivered this Wednesday, day after tomorrow to the customer. So after that we will have maybe four to six weeks to know what is happening there.
Sanjesh Jain
Okay. The it is for what? Approval, validation or it will take a. Longer.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
So samples, piloting, everything was done. So now we have seen One ISO tank of product kind of thing which is being delivered day after tomorrow.
Sanjesh Jain
And the realization in this product will be same as other PTC or these are higher?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
No, no more or less.
Sanjesh Jain
Okay, so it’s not going to add in terms of value chain, it’s just going to add volume to us.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Yes, yes. Slightly better margin but not significantly higher. We can shift the PTC broad margin. It cannot shift it.
Sanjesh Jain
Got it. We haven’t talked about the polymer change in the HDA segment. We were doing one through electrolysis process. Any update on that?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Yeah, so that has been commercialized. We have sent material to the customer now. So in fact I am also traveling on this weekend and meeting the customer in next week. So we will have some basic feedback probably by end of May what is happening there. Okay, so now we are just sitting idle for the customer to respond in terms of how they feel the material is, what is their feedback in terms of quality of the commercial supply.
Sanjesh Jain
Got it, Got it. And lastly on the PASC side, how do you see this pharma side coming up? We don’t expect any revenue to be booked in FY26. More of FY27 phenomena because we spoke in FY26 largely about agrochemical photochlorination part of it.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
So that photoglorination product is what we are expecting commercialization in this year. So that is under final validation which we expect should be with us by latest by June. And then we expect commercialization within the current financial year itself. In terms of pharma, we have executed commercial scale supplies. So a few metric tons of two products have already been supplied. So our validation part is done. And now Mike, the next customer to me is now doing commercial validation for his batch and then it goes to the final customer. So my part is done. The validation from my angle has gone.
Everything is well, the samples have been approved well, we have supplied few metric tons of each of these products to the customer and now they are running their valuation trials. So there may be a possibility to commercialize something by the end of the current financial year. But I would say that would be optimistic or if there is any changes because now it is. The ball is not in my court. All is in my customer’s court. And then the ball goes to the final customer’s code.
Sanjesh Jain
And how about the regulatory part? Are we already part of the filing or that’s a different process we need to run.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Yeah. So once this validation from my immediate customer happens, will become part of that book.
Sanjesh Jain
Okay, that process is on. Or that process Is at to start?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Yeah, no, no, it is on. We are onboarded. Basically. We are onboarded.
Sanjesh Jain
We are onboarded. Okay. The next question is on the margin. Now that we are now looking at improving the process, improving the utilization, how should margin look? We should look at margins from here on because we have already taken a lot lot of cost on the P and L. How should the EBITDA margin transition should happen from here?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
If you want in a more of a precise answer to this number of around 20% should be more realistic for the current year. I am expecting that there have to be certain challenge is when we are scaling up each of these new large handling products. We are talking of increasing the top line with new products. That is also a significant part of the overall growth. So when this is happening, I am suspecting that efficiency, what we have estimated will take some time, let us say three to five to six months time to reach to that operational efficiency to derive the real value.
Considering that still I feel a death of about 20, 21% in terms of EBITDA would not be a wide guess.
Sanjesh Jain
Got it, got it. The last question is on how the things are evolving from the US perspective because we have some exposure to US the tariff and everything. Given the scenario, are we seeing increased customer query? Are the customers very worried once the fifth July pass? How are you planning the supplies and all? Because the tariff remains very uncertain. There.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
See that is something they call. There is some NXL that is published that these are the products or categories which are exempt from this special duty. And I believe almost all, barring a couple of products, almost all the products what we are into is under that exemption list. So theoretically this doesn’t change anything for us unless and until they end up changing the list itself.
Sanjesh Jain
Got it, Got it. But any increased inquiry from the customer as a policy to ship them?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
No, because what the exempt list is not only for India, it is globally. So even China is exempted from that list. Any country in the world is exempted from that list.
Sanjesh Jain
So we are really not seeing any benefit of negative impact on.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
So we don’t see negative positive either of the situation arising. Only if something changes in terms of, you know, removal of certain key products from that list, then it can significantly change something. But honestly speaking, talking to other industry peers, I feel that no one is expecting anything major to happen there.
Sanjesh Jain
Got got. Thanks Shintanbai. These are my questions and best of luck for the coming quarters.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Darshal Zaveri from Crown Capital please go ahead.
Darshil Jhaveri
Hello. Good evening sir. Hopefully I’m audible.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Yes please.
Darshil Jhaveri
Yeah, yeah, hi sir. So just I think the answer to the previous participant we are expecting 20% margin for the next year, full year or that would be maybe an exit run rate as you know scaling up, you know quarter on quarter the margin will improve and finally it will reach or overall you want to be able to reach you know, 20% for the full year.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Overall full year. Because there will be significant difference in terms of H1 and H2 because this both the large agro products will have commercial. We will continue to produce in H1 but the sales will be booked only in H2 so there will be a significant difference in exponents. So whatever I am saying is for the full year.
Darshil Jhaveri
Oh that’s very great to know sir. So just maybe you know going a bit towards a longer period of time. I think in the presentation itself you mentioned, you know this year we want to have a 25 top line growth and we were saying to each agro product and you know maybe be a 40 crore product itself. So over like by FY24 and 28 like our growth momentum can continue. And how, how do we look to know next two, three years in terms of you know, top line and margin sir?
Ashok Bothra
So each of these new products, let us say the rest of the segments are just evolving and growing. For example SBA paces, ces, environmental sorts, so products also also grow but the value is too low as of today. So the growth will not be seen in terms of big numbers. But PSC segment is what for example this product we anticipate to make let us say 200, 300 tons one year, 500 tons second year. And we are setting the plan to be able to reach thousand metric tons. So that is, that is the way these things will progress.
And this all has one is that we deliver right thing at the right time and at the right price. So but we are confident on that. That is why we are expanding the capacities and setting up a plant which can cater to a demand one year down the line. So we are anticipating the growth in this product as the customer confidence increases.
Darshil Jhaveri
New plant. What is the capex we are doing sir?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Currently going on?
Darshil Jhaveri
Yeah, no, the amount of capex we doing and seems to be operational by end of a second. Right. What is the amount of you know the depreciation will hit next year. Right. So how much is the capex doing this?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
We expect this. So this will be about 100, 500 and between anywhere between 105, 10cr and we expect and we are striving very hard to get it operational before January of 2020. So it should be available for production by January is what we are targeting.
Darshil Jhaveri
Oh, okay. Okay, okay. That’s great to know, sir. And so just again, sorry to harp on the margin because I think our best margins were around, you know, in the last 17 last year. And then before that we were able to do 20%. So now going forward, our business model, we can expect 20% as a base for margins.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Right? Sir, I didn’t get your last line. Please repeat.
Darshil Jhaveri
So I’m just asking. We can expect now 20% to be the base for our margins going forward because. And you know, all the new products and new capacity are clicking in. So at least going forward we’ll be able to do 20 EBITDA or now, you know, because.
Darshil Jhaveri
Yes, yeah, that’s okay. Fair enough, sir. That’s it from Michael. Thank you sir.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jai Vagasia, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, hello. Chintan Bhaima. Audible.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Yeah, yeah, very loud and clear. Hi there.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, yeah, hi. So Chintan, first question is in Q1 of this year, despite the sharp fall in raw material prices for SDA we had guided for 20% growth for the full year but we are very much off the mark. So what is the reason? Why did we get it wrong?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
It is purely the volumes that dropped, the prices that dropped. Realizations practically came down. If I recollect correctly, we benchmark last one year then phase transfer catalyst dropped in terms of value by 23%. FBS dropped anywhere between 27 to 35%. So those were the kind of drops which happened. So your absorption of cost becomes a challenge. And that is where we went wrong. And also we were expecting somewhere in the range of 410 or 415cr in revenue is what we had. And we ended up at 385, 390. And despite of that I would say the volumes have remained healthy.
The impact, what is brought in is just because of the price realizations of these key products. Potentially with the increasing raw material price which is slightly evident, but it is going up again, falling back, going up again, falling back. But the prices are trying to increase now. At least that is what is visible. So if this happens, then this is the change is getting much faster.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And gentleman, next is for the entire PASC segment. Can you give the guidance for the current year? Because in the last call you had said all the agro intermediates are you Know they are going into commercial supply from April and the photocolomination product has also started commercial supply from April I think. And polymer also you are saying. So can you give guidance on PASC segment growth for this year?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
So we will cross at least 40% in terms of growth. That is what we clearly foresee.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. So at least 40% in PASC and 40% in SDL.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Right? Yeah.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And in the semiconductor space that we are working on. So our existing. The current suppliers for that substances would be Sakim only. Right. Because these are the SDs are only going into this application if I am right. Correct.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
There’s not spa. It’s a different set of products. But yes, that is where we are competing with the U.S. major company.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Okay. And every level. So I couldn’t get it. PPB purity levels that you discussed last time, have we reached those levels or. There is still some time.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
So we are sending our sample. So what? See basically we have achieved the desired point. Absolutely everything below 10 ppb levels has been achieved inside the reactor. Now we are waiting for the right packaging materials. We got few suppliers products, one from Malaysia, a couple of them from India. But these germs are not getting qualified in terms of accepting these high purity materials. So the germs are giving a lot of contaminations to the product. So we are holding the batch in the reactor now waiting for a couple of packaging materials coming in from Germany and Japan and that’s it.
So we are just waiting to unload the batch to send the first lot to the customer. So from our end condition it is approved. So that was a big milestone that we achieved during this quarter. Big milestone.
Unidentified Participant
I think it is in the. I joined it.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Choice Thakkar from M3 Investments. Please go ahead.
Chetan Thakar
The question is more on the asset utilization. For the last 23 years we’ve seen side degree of Capex and the capex still continues. So just wanted to get a sense on with the current cross block that you have another hundred crore that you’re spending. What kind of revenue should we potentially see and why has utilization and products are not scaled scale that as anticipated yet we continue to do capex. So how do you see this CAPEX getting utilized over the course of the next three to four years?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
So there are two parts of our plan. One is the conventional plant where you see reactors and stuff like that. And another part of our capex is involving the assembly lines. So this particular part of the assembly line part is only Associated purely and purely only associated with the SCA part. Right. And the rest of the chemistries are done in the rest of the parts. The rest of the plant today we see at an occupancy level of about 83, 84%.
Chetan Thakar
So out of the total improvement.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Sure, go ahead. Yeah. And the SBA part of the plant. So the plant where we expanded and then we saw this sudden drop in terms of volume and the challenges have to face in the SPO plant. So that plant has been running at about 29 to 32% which since last one month we are seeing it operating at about 60% level. 68 to 61% levels. There has been a significant shift in terms of productivity in that plant as well. We continue. We expect it to continue to operate at about 60 during the year. Whereas the conventional plant we expect to give an overall occupancy in the range of 80.
Chetan Thakar
So the out of our gross block in absolute terms, what is the amount that you can associate with the SDA. Plant itself.
Chetan Thakar
Is the SD assembly? Because what I wanted to understand is. So the balance, how much? So you said the balance is working at 83% optimum utilization. So just to get a breakup of the gross block in terms of what is clearly purely associated with fda so that we can track separately the ROC for the capexes that are happening. Because currently that is depressing the return ratios largely.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
You have asked a very difficult question to put a number to it. Because of see 30% drop in value. Where do I factor it? And if there is a jump, then where do you factor? But let us say. Let me just give a thought. Give me a second. So let us say if you put FBA’s projected value and volume at the current price level, let us assume that the price is for next two, three years. Just an assumption. Wild assumption then.
operator
Hello, sir, am I audible to you?
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Yeah, one second, one second. Okay, I’m just using my mathematics.
Chetan Thakar
Sure.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
So it goes to roughly about 450cr in terms of top line from the SCA plant. If it is getting occupied at 100% levels.
Chetan Thakar
Understood.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Again, it depends lot of things. There are multiple products within the FBA category. So something from $5, something going up to $12 or even $16 as a fair estimate of what could sell more and what would not sell so high volumes. Based on that, I would say we can reach at the current price levels, we can reach to our revenue of 450. Got it.
Chetan Thakar
So once the SDA is fully utilized, we theoretically can add 450. The balance 250 that we are doing currently which is non and the scale up that you’ve already highlighted so we should count that scale up and associate the fresh capex there and try and work it reverse to see what is the actual ROC of X SDA so that we get a fair degree of understanding how X SDA is progressing.
Chintan Nitinkumar Shah
Absolutely
Chetan Thakar
sure understood sir. This is helpful sir thank you so much.
operator
Thank you I would love I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ashok Utra for closing comments.
Ashok Bothra
Thank you on behalf of the Mariner. We thank you for joining us on. Our running call today. We hope we have been able to address majority of your queries. You may reach out to Mr. Aish or our investor relation partner en y for any further queries that you may have and they would connect with you offline. Thank you Sandraji for hosting our call. Thank you everyone.
operator
Thank you on behalf of ICICI securities limited that concludes this conference thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.