Tata Power Company Limited (TATAPOWER) Q4 FY23 Earnings Concall Transcript

Tata Power Company Limited (NSE:TATAPOWER) Q4 FY23 Earnings Concall dated May. 04, 2023.

Corporate Participants:

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

Analysts:

Sumit Kishore — Axis Capital — Analyst

Puneet — HSBC — Analyst

Rajesh Majumdar — B&K Securities — Analyst

Bharanidhar ViyJayakumar — Spark Capital — Analyst

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Abhishek Maheshwari — Sky Rich Wealth Management — Analyst

Harshil Solanki — Equity Capital Advisors — Analyst

Presentation:

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Tata Power Q4 FY ’23 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] I now hand the conference over to Dr. Praveer Sinha, Managing Director, The TaTa Power.

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Good evening, everyone, and thanks for joining the call. I’m joined today by my colleagues, Sanjeev Churiwala, CFO; Mr. JV Patil, Financial Controller, Kasturi and Rajesh from the Investor Relations and other members from my finance and corporate communication team. As all of you are aware, India’s power demand continues to be very [Indecipherable]. In fact, the par demand grew by nearly 7% in the last quarter, but by nearly 9% in the full year. And this has seen growth right across all areas, summer generation grew by 8%. Renewables grew by 18% on a year-on-year basis. And this is expected to continue in future also. Normally, the ratio of power generation growth to our GDP growth used to be 0.94 in the last decade. But in the last five years, we have seen it to increase 1.11. And we expect that with more and more of the economic activity in the country, this will possibly get enhanced in the coming years.

We have seen that the international chemical prices have reduced considerably from a high of $400 it has come down to less than $200, and it will further stabilize as we move during the current year. And this also demonstrates that the price of power will, over a period of time, come down, especially those places, which are operating on import. We have seen the government is pushing for renewable capacity addition and they recently came out with an order, whereby they are targeting to auction nearly 50 gigawatt of renewable capacity, which includes solar, wind and hybrid solutions storage. And this will get added in this will be bid out in this year as also in subsequent years. So a huge amount of push is being given by the government.

They are very clearly brought out, which will be the agencies which will carry out the bid and how they will do this bundle or power along with their existing generation capacities, especially NTPC and HPC and some of the other public sector undertakings. On the Mundra, we are pleased to inform you that our plant is operating four of the five units. The fifth one is under maintenance and under Section 11. And barring Sabinal all these states are drawing full capacity of power from this. And as you are aware, under Section 11, we get a full pass-through of cost of power generation. That means the coal cost as well as the full fixed cost and all other related cost is a pass-through. And on similar lines, we will get it now and similar order was issued earlier in January by CRC for the last section 11 3. Moving to the financials. The TaTa Power has again reported a very good quarter, which has shown an excellent performance from all our businesses, our existing generation business, coal, gas and hydro have done very well. And there’s also our existing transmission distribution and new areas of renewables and EV charging.

And this has shown that we have, again — this is the 5th consecutive quarter in which we have shown an increased impact are bad for the quarter is INR39 crores and which is higher than the last year. Similarly, the revenue has grown in this quarter has also our EBITDA, which has increased by 38% to INR3,101 crore. For the whole year, TaTa Power reported a very strong revenue of INR56,000 crores, which is nearly 32% increase from the previous year. And the previous year itself was an increase of more than 30% from the year before. And with the EBITDA of nearly INR10,000 crores for the first segmthe ent crossing EBITDA of INR10,000 crores and a PAT of INR3,810 crores. Our renewable capacity growth continues to be there. We have nearly 6,600 megawatts of renewable projects. out of which we have installed 3,927 — and the balance, 2,669 is in the various stages of implementation. And hopefully, in the next 12 to 18 months, all of them will get completed.

During the quarter, TPREL, which is the renewable arm for the developing utility-scale projects, our own projects got orders of 200 megawatts from MSEDCL as also the greenshoe option from TPDDL of 225 megawatt. We continue to get a large number of orders for our solar EPC business, and we have nearly an order backlog of INR17,000 crores, consisting of four gigawatt of projects to be implemented — our plans to set up before gigawatt cell and module manufacturing plant in Tamilnadu is on track, and we expect the modules line to be ready by September, October and the cell line by the end of the year. So we are very much on track, and this has been one area of answer of how do we ensure that the uncertainty of supply as also of price is taken care.

And hopefully, once we sell and module line comes, we will be much better and better to execute these projects within the cost that we have built. Our rooftop business is seeing very good traction. We installed nearly 300 megawatt in Q4. And we also won new orders of 400 megawatts in the quarter. We have a very good other backlog of nearly 468 megawatt called worth nearly INR1,900 crores. We have seen that during the year, our rooftop business has grown many times — and we did a total installation during the year of 718 megawatts with a revenue of nearly INR2,770 crores. And as all of you are aware, we used to be a very small player in this market, but we have done very well in this market. Our Cumulatively, in fact, our solar rooftop portfolio has expanded more than 1,600 megawatts, and we are the largest and biggest in the market at present.

And this is right across in commercial buildings, industrial buildings and also residential business. We have also, in the last quarter, installed nearly 4,000 solar pumps, and we have nearly 97,000 solar pumps running right across the country in various states, which is the highest by any clients in the company. In the green mobility space, we continue to grow and have a lot of partnerships. We recently signed up with the Combat Municipal Corporation and also with key. And we have more than 3,778 public and seven public EV chargers and nearly 30,000 home chargers, and we expect that this will grow in the coming years by adding public charges as well as fee charges and home charges and in our T&D business, we continue to perform very well and have been given a huge number of awards in different areas, whether it is in terms of transmission operations in Mumbai or the distribution business in Denis, Mumbai and in Morita.

And all our distribution companies have been doing exceeding well. Specific mention is to the retail distribution business, where all the four discounts have reported very huge reduction in AT&C losses. And what we have seen has is that during the quarter, the PAT from the Orissa discounts has increased by nearly 30%. And for the full year, the Orissa discounts have reported a PAT of nearly INR253 crores. We have also been very conscious that our balance sheet should be very healthy, and our debt has been reduced by nearly INR2,800 crores in the March quarter. And our debt is now INR35,328 crores. This is because of very healthy operating performance, equity infusion by a strategic partner and also a working capital release. So a lot of our investment and last year, we did nearly INR6,600 crores of investment has come from the internal accruals and the savings that we have done.

And we expect that going forward, when we are targeting that in FY ’24, we will do an investment of nearly INR5,000 crores, which includes the investment in the new manufacturing plant renewable projects, both group captive as well as utilities and our existing transmission and distribution businesses in Denis lMumbais, we’ll be able to get most of this money from our internal accruals and the operating profit that we make. — acknowledging our efforts on debt reduction, S&P Global ratings have upgraded Tata Power’s consolidated credit rating from BB to BB+ and stand-alone credit rating from BB- to BB with a very stable outlook. TaTa Power has also been awarded the India’s Annual Report Award by Freres General and [Indecipherable] Horton for 2021 for the quality of financial reporting and the disclosure.

Tata Power continues to be moving steadily in its long-term as creation. — to build various businesses, which give sustained performance as has been seen in the last so many quarters. And this is also visible in the improvements that have been seen in various operational and financial metrics in each of these quarters in each of these business. I do look forward for your continued support in this direction. And I look forward to amping your questions, which between Sanjeev and me, we will try to discon. So with that, I request Faizan to open the floor for Q&A.

Questions and Answers:

Operator

We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] the first question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.

Sumit Kishore — Axis Capital — Analyst

Good evening. My first question is on the other income in the P&L for Q4. It seems to have gone up to INR8.7 billion versus EUR2.59 billion in Q4 FY ’22 towards driving the increase?

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

Sanjeev Churiwala let me take this question. When you look at Q4, I’ll also draw your attention to the full year as well. Particularly, a big amount that you see is on account of dividend from Arutmin. And since Sumiko been tracking kind of our stock, as you are aware that a few years back, we had sold our stake in our open mines, and we were kind of waiting to get a full consideration back. Happy to report that a large chunk of the consideration close to over INR900 crores have been received now, and we are in the process of finding of this complete transaction. In the process, we also had about INR500-odd crores of shareholders’ loan line that has been converted to dividend in our paper.

And because this is a noncore asset sitting in the book, this is reflected in other income. So that is one. Second, of course, this is the profit that you see. And there are two other transactions that is also hitting here. What you see net of everything is possibly a one-off item of 83 crores positive. So that is because we also had, because of the situation that during January, February, March, we had run our Mudra plant, and there were some pay-or-take obligations for some of the logistic shipment providers, we have provided some penalty for them over INR100-odd crores. And data projects was also in the process of cleaning up. And as such, data posted higher losses on account of that we had to provide INR132 crores.

But I guess when I look at overall as a year, which is also important for you to consider because this will have a bearing as to how we look at it next year, while we have this INR512 crores dividend from I don’t think a set of a more of a one-off. But we also had a hit of almost INR478 crores, almost equivalent because of Tata projects losses, which will not incur. And for the full year, we kind of took almost close to INR200 crores of provisioning. This is just provisioning for contract assuming that the shipments that we have promised will not happen. And as a take and pay obligation, we have taken a provision. But now that the Section 11 notification is imposed and all our plants are running. So hopefully, we’ll be able to do many of the shipments as we go forward and likely there could be a possibility of some reversal also happening.

Sumit Kishore — Axis Capital — Analyst

What is the provision related to shipments that did not further that?

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

So we have a back-to-back tie-up for bringing our coal from Indonesia to our Mudra plant throughout the year, assuming that all the four and five units will be running. But given that during the year, as you are aware that we had PPA, we had Section 11 a notification until December. And for January, February, March, we had highly under plan. We were not able to use those shipments. And as such, we had to kind of contractually provide for that, assuming that this is a odious contract. But given that now from a rail onwards, we see all the four years running, hopefully, we’ll be able to meet the contractual obligation.

Sumit Kishore — Axis Capital — Analyst

Sure. So just to clarify about the Tata project site as well as this hit on shipping costs will not be part of other income, obviously, we’ll be appearing in the respective places as the head of associate income and the share of above the EBITDA line…

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

Yes… Yes

Sumit Kishore — Axis Capital — Analyst

My second question is related to the JV and associate profit in Q4. The share of profit has fallen sharply to INR179 crores in Q4 versus what we looked in the first three quarters of FY ’23, which is close to about INR3,000 crores. So the customary slide on breakup for JVs and associates have been removed from the presentation deck. Can you provide color on performance of indoor coal and Tata projects, in particular, and especially indoor coal because it’s such a significant portion of your business.

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

So let me give you some high-level color on this. the quarter four has been a significant quarter in terms of what we see happening on overall coal prices globally and especially the Indonesian coal prices. We have seen a softening of the innovation coal prices happening. But latest the currently the regulations in Asia are — they’re still supposed to pay a royalty basis to certain six slap. That the government has now changed. So while the prices were falling down, the induration coal mines had to pay still higher royalty. That is now, hopefully, in the next two, three months, we’ll start seeing terms of reversal and improvement happening over there. So that is one. Second is, as I said, on the part of TATA projects for the full year, we have booked our share of JBoss and about INR200-odd crores in the last quarter. So that — as a result of that, you will see a softening in our JV overall profits.

Sumit Kishore — Axis Capital — Analyst

What is the outlook there, given your own 47% at stake in that company?

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

I think TATA projects kind of looks like have been able to clean up a lot of past losses, legacy losses. Tata Sons have now infused INR1,500 crores in that business. And to that extent, our stake, which is 48% is now diluted to 31%. But given the current planning, we are looking forward to tata projects, making some profits in COD4. So against a loss that we have booked of INR480 crores in full year, we are expecting some profits to come in next year. So to that extent, yes, it will benefit us.

Sumit Kishore — Axis Capital — Analyst

Sorry, when did the stake reduced to 31% and so Tata Power has not included any equity in Tata projects.

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

No. So that is an reduced in the month of April…

Sumit Kishore — Axis Capital — Analyst

April 23…

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

April 23 yes.

Sumit Kishore — Axis Capital — Analyst

Tata Son has included INR1,500 crores.

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

Yes.

Sumit Kishore — Axis Capital — Analyst

Okay. I have just one more question on Mundra. If you could give us some sense on EBITDA for Mundra UMPP in Q4 and FY ’23 and fuel cost under recovery per kilowatt hour over this period? Any color on receivables, which are under Section 11, which have been booked but not yet realized.

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

So Section 11 actually means the full cost pass through. And to that extent we have started the four plants already. But during the year, as you see, we are — they were under various different degrees. You as a here in the PPA and then there was a special requirement to start the plant wherein the second date was agreed, then we had Section 11 for a PPA then we in the last three months under PPA. So it’s quite a complex working to kind of just manage everything on the call itself. I would request you drop us to May and Rajesh should kind of get back to you with some better clarification.

Sumit Kishore — Axis Capital — Analyst

Thank you.

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

Yes, I think what’s also important to note that as of now, our four plants are operating under under Section 11. And the Section 11 is as of now until June. And given the past trend, we would expect that this to be extended until September, October.

Sumit Kishore — Axis Capital — Analyst

So just the total receivables that are due to you for Mundra UMPP after imposition of Section 11 last year, the bulk of the fiscal was under Section 11. So are you getting those cash flows from the associated…

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

We are continuously getting our cash flows and even in the latest appeal CRC said, it just forms to be 50%. So our net deals is not a very, very significant amount. So to that extent, kind of sees with us. So — and also have Yes, we also carry LCs with us.

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

I look at the total amount due is about 300

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

How much?

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Section 11, the amount is INR400 crores

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

Yes

Sumit Kishore — Axis Capital — Analyst

Okay. Thank you so much

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

But we have been deciding this amount even in the month of april itself, we have already received close to about INR150-odd crores. So we don’t see any concerns with respect to our receivables.

Sumit Kishore — Axis Capital — Analyst

Those are my questions. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Puneet from HSBC. Please go ahead.

Puneet — HSBC — Analyst

Thank you so much. My first question is, is the understanding correct that in terms of pass-through when you say pass through are you still assuming the 30% share in coal profits to be passed on to the customer and you’ll retain the balance 70%

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

See, the — we have to go as per this Section 11 order issued by CRC. So what it is is that whatever is the cost of coal that you can be given. On the mining profit, if you bring coal from KPC can use it in Mundra. To that extent, you will have to pay 30% on your projects. So this is only for the quantity of coal that you bring from KPC. So if you do not bring you will so last year, when the Section 11 period, very small quantity, I think about 15% was only brought on from KPC, there was some outside. This year, there is no coal that has come from KPC. So there is virtually no impact of the profit share.

Puneet — HSBC — Analyst

Okay. That’s very interesting — and any progress that you’re seeing with your off-takers now given that there is expectation of high power demand going into summer. Any progress on how the Mundra PK will be redone?

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Right now, the Section 11, it is still 15th of June. So hopefully, by that time, the Bureau will be finalized because until that time, in any case, we will be operating the plant under Section 11.

Puneet — HSBC — Analyst

And would the current Section 11 implementation is the best case scenario that you have?

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Yes, absolutely. This is because Section 11 gives me a full pass-through of the cost without any..

Puneet — HSBC — Analyst

My second question is on the visa. The profitability is indeed quite good, are you worried on account of any receivables? Or is the collection also going on quite nicely?

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

So Orissa, in the last quarter, we had a collection in each of the discounts in the range of 140% to 150%. And for the full year, the collection has been nearly more than 100%. So I think Orissa has done exceedingly well in terms of the collections. And if you see the trend, it has been able to clear virtually a lot of the old outstanding. And of course, we have the ECL provision. And based on that, we have already cleaned up a lot of receivables, which are not expected. And that is primarily because there are issues on the way the winning work done.

There were a lot of customers who were not there, but we’re still build. So I think the cleaning up operations has been done. And what you see as a profit is a profit after considering all these things. So hopefully, from next year, we will not have any such impact on our profitability, and we will see the real profit coming out of Orissa. Mind you, when we had bid at that time, we had considered that for the first three years, we will have no profit. We’ll have losses. In fact, the cumulative losses that we had considered was a very large number, which right from year one, we have been making profit. So it’s actually a big turnaround story.

Puneet — HSBC — Analyst

Okay that’s very good. Thank you so much. Lastly, the renewable business, given that incrementally, a lot of bids are going towards round-the-clock kind of model, are you prepared to bid for similar projects in terms of ability to capture storage, trading, etc?

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Yes, absolutely. We have very strong solutions on one clock solutions. And we have now already offered a number of solutions, which is a combination of solar and wind. We are also now in the process of offering solar, wind and storage. We are actually now implementing a project on a third-party EPC basis of solar and storage. So we are very much equipped we are also working on our comp storage projects. As you are aware, we already have hydropower plants, and we are working on that. So we will definitely be coming with very attractive solutions and very cost-effective solutions to consumers to provide them 24/7 down the clock, peaking powers as is the requirement of the customers.

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

If I look at what is in the pipeline, which is about 2.7 gigawatt, it’s almost kind of more dated towards hybrid at the moment. We already have 1.4 gigawatts in the pipeline, and this is happening for the first time because we have seen many hybrid bits coming up and our business has been paid. So to your point, as Dr. Sinha, as and when we keep on bidding, we will be working towards it

Puneet — HSBC — Analyst

Right I think you’re participating in the round-the-clock project, which is asked, but it’s great. Thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Majumdar from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.

Rajesh Majumdar — B&K Securities — Analyst

Thanks for taking my call. I had a question on the renewables hybrid projects. So what are the current discovered tariffs versus the fall in the module or the sell prices? Where are the ROEs now at the current Discover tariff? Or some color on that?

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

No color can be given on this because it all depends on where you are setting up the project. If I set up in Rajasthan, it has a different context of tariff. If I set up in Gujarat, it has different Karnataka is different. So it is very difficult to have the same brush to say at what sort of tariffs will come in which states. Also, it depends on what is the cost of land in those areas. And what sort of wind speeds and what sort of solar intensity is there. So there is no generalization that can be done. As regards to the cost is concerned, we had seen the cost of modules to go up to $0.32 to $0.34. It has come down in the range of about $0.22 to $0.23. So I think it has come down drastically. So also the cost of sales and cost of water policy look on, everything has come down because of more demand, more manufacturing capacity that has been set up, not only in China but in other parts of the world, including ACM countries and also capacity additions, which are expected in the country.So I think we are moving in the right direction. The Slide 19, which has been shared with you will give you a much better perspective..

Rajesh Majumdar — B&K Securities — Analyst

And sir, what is the current PLF being realized in the hybrid projects versus the PLF we were getting earlier on standalone solar, for example, or even in the solar projects themselves, have the sale has gone up compared to what we were getting last year or something like that?

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

The PLF for different locations, again, depends on what sort of weather conditions are there. So if the weather conditions are good in some places it has gone up, some places, the weather has not been very good. Also extreme weather conditions we have been seeing in the month of April, last few days of the month, there was a lot of rain and the cloud cover, so the generation has not been good getting that per but the balance of the month, it was very good. So it all depends on how it is changing. Also, we have given the slide which gives you the operational highlights, which is Slide 27, you can see that the ability of all these plants.

Rajesh Majumdar — B&K Securities — Analyst

Sure, sure, sir. And sir, just one question on PPAS. It seems that the profitability has gone up, but the sales is down. So is that just because of some kind of completion of projects in Q4, the operating income is down from INR3,481 to 2958, but is the EBITDA is up from INR77 to 85 and the PAT is also substantially up.

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Yes, you’re absolutely right that we were a little selective in terms of executing the projects. And that’s why our — we didn’t execute some of the projects because the cost of the model was a little higher. And I think that was a good decision because by deferring those projects, we will be able to get the benefit of lower cost in the future. And also, some of the high profit margin projects we could complete in the last quarter, which has given us better EBITDA margins.

Rajesh Majumdar — B&K Securities — Analyst

So will the steady-state margins go up a little bit in TSSI it safe to assume that compared to what you have been changing in the past?

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

That’s what is our game plan. So we definitely expect now that the prices are coming up, our margins should go up in the future.

Rajesh Majumdar — B&K Securities — Analyst

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bharanidhar ViyJayakumar from Spark Capital. Please go ahead.

Bharanidhar ViyJayakumar — Spark Capital — Analyst

So you mentioned that for the fourth quarter, the Tata Projects loss was about INR200 crores. Am I right,?

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

Yes.

Bharanidhar ViyJayakumar — Spark Capital — Analyst

So what would be the profit for the coal companies in the quarter…

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

So I think if you can send the mail we can share separately with you. So I think what you see the JV profits gives an indication on softening of the oil prices and the softening of the profits. But if you need specific details, we can share with you our plan separately.

Bharanidhar ViyJayakumar — Spark Capital — Analyst

Sure. My second question is on Mundra. Now since the Section 11 was operational from mid of March, but we were not operating for a reason that we were waiting for some deals to come in. So what has changed now that we have started the operations?

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Because the money came consequent to the decision. So they paid the money and a very small amount of Section 11 payment is due now. So virtually, all the money has come in fact by we have package plant. And so also the other states, and Gavin and Yamaha has been asked by Aptima payment in two weeks, right? So that’s why we started from 16th of…

Bharanidhar ViyJayakumar — Spark Capital — Analyst

So could you quantify the amount that came in? And was it in receivables, which was realized as cash in cash…

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

It will get reflected in this quarter because this order was issued in, I think, around 16th April. So it will get reflected in this month of this quarter results.

Bharanidhar ViyJayakumar — Spark Capital — Analyst

Okay. My final question is on the other income clarification, you gave. So net profit booked on consideration got for Arutmin sale. You said it’s INR512 crores. Am I right, sir? — which is booked and other costs…

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

As I clarified to I think, Amit, we have sold this to main mines about a few years back, — and we were supposed to get a total remaining consideration of close to about INR200 crores. We have been able to now receive a media consideration already in this year. So we are in the process of winding up this transaction. There was a shareholder loan of INR512 crores that was standing, which has been converted to dividend. And given that this is a noncore asset to that extent that it as part of the other income.

Bharanidhar ViyJayakumar — Spark Capital — Analyst

Okay. So what is remaining to be incurred in a similar passion in the future, sir?

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

No. So now what is remaining is to kind of get the remaining amount, which is close to about $27 million, $28 million. So we are hoping that money should also come very soon. And thereafter, we bring close the transaction.

Bharanidhar ViyJayakumar — Spark Capital — Analyst

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Girish Achhipalia from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Sir, actually, a few things. So why have we stopped disclosing the coal profitability from this quarter? We’ve been doing it for several quarters now.

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

The coal profitability is kind of reflected in the JV profits that we are sharing, but we’re not exclusively giving exact numbers for the coal mines because that’s not warranted. But if you need separate details, we can just drop in the mail, you can always share.

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

But sir, we’ve been giving it for several quarters now. How do we understand the results because there’s been a big number on your profits for several quarters now… What happens to the change?

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

The whole process there is that we don’t look at our coal mines on a stand-alone basis.

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Absolutely. That’s why I want to look at it completely. That’s why I want to look at Mundra because you stopped giving Mundra and now you stop giving coal, I’m wondering what next because TATA power is always known for very strong disclosures.

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

Yes. So disclose

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Initial slides also going down, sir. Pardon me, but I mean, like for example, I mean, I can’t reconcile your renewable business, TPREL and WREL. — why would revenues be down Y-o-Y in quarter four?

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

I think there are a couple of questions that is there. As our disclosure in terms of the presentation this time you see, we have made a dramatic change in terms of simplifying the overall presentation in the…

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Coal is Then part of the disclosure, right? Coal is an inherent part of our profitability.

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

Yes. So I want to Mudra is now not a stand-alone company. Mundra is part of Tata Power Company itself. So we are not segregating Mudra from there. And then [Indecipherable] is closing…

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Operating parameters on Mundra as well, right? And coal also, you were to last quarter, you were disclosing everything.

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

No, I think what we have very clearly said also that the bank of… In quarter three, there was Slide 20 — there were two.

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

There were two slides.

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

Yes, you’re right, Girish, but we don’t want the number to be miused by the competition on the data…

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

What’s the competition here, sir? In terms of competition pardon me, but who’s the competition here…

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

Well, I think we can always have these different deals. But the fact is, if you need the details, we can provide to you.

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Sir, tell me what is the renewable — why is the renewable revenue down Y-o-Y for REM

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

Last year, we had a one-off revenue and profit that was both removing the one-off Y on Y is higher.

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

So how — what is the one-off, sir, please? Can you help us? Because the slides don’t have any details.

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Okay. And that we can give you, the one-off is basically because last year, we got some orders, which was order from the regulatory commission because of that, we have taken

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Yes. Do we know what please?

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Yes, INR182 crores.

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Across two entities, TPREL and WREL.

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Yes, yes. These are the two entities because the others are very small ones. And…

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

What revenue impact what is your PAT impact, please, if this is a revenue impact, what is the PAT impact here on this level?

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

This is not the revenue. This is the PAT impact INR350 crores. It’s about INR350 crores. But we can check and let you know. I don’t have it offhead — but that’s correct. I know the PAT number is INR182, but the revenue number I can share with you.

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Okay, sure. And then capex we will have incurred capex of INR7,656 crores as per your cash flow. Can you help us like how much has the renewable gross block gone up by? And where the other broadly where the money has been spent out of that INR766 capex that you have incurred this year. And what’s the outlook for

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

[Indecipherable] It’s some it is 62, 67. So out of that, we can give you a [Indecipherable].

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

I’m referring to your consolidated cash flow statement on Page number 12.

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Got it because we do the elimination in the assets because…

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

I can’t give you much broad number — our total capex on the console all put together is about INR6,500-odd crores roughly give and take. And if you look at our renewables in spite of some of the deferrals that we have done, our total capex is close to about INR2,500-odd crores.

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Okay. And what is the outlook for FY ’24, please? for capex

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

We already have in the pipe see, if you have already seen the disclosures, we have commissioned about close to four gigawatts. In the pipeline, we have close to about two gigawatts

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

2.6

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

Yes, 2.6, 2.6 gigawatts, and our order book cap up now is about close to INR70,000 crores, right? So hopefully, we’ll have a much higher capex in 24 next year for the current year.

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

How much should I assume, sir, for my model…

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Our total capex for FY ’24 is about INR10,000 which consists of about INR3,000 crores for the manufacturing plants, and they would be about, I would say, INR4,500 crores in the renewable fund captive as well as for utility scale. So that’s the type of numbers that we have. And then we have a full capex for our transmission and we said this for the event. [Technical Issues] So that’s what — and then there is some capex which is there for our FTDs for the four basis…

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

So is it fair to assume, given that your operating cash flow was this year INR7,100 crores, — and if you were spending INR12,000 crores next year. Next year also, you will have a free cash flow negative here. Is that a fair comment to make?

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

It’s a wrong assessment. I told you that this year also, we were — whatever capex we did from our free cash flow. Similarly, next year also, I will do my capex more or less to the free cash flow that i had

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

If I could also add, while you’re looking at the free cash flow that is available, for example, in 20 full year, we had an operating cash flow close to around INR2,500-odd crores. But at the same time, we also separately received equity inclusion of INR2,000-odd crores, which is also kind of sitting with us, right? And this equity will be utilized next year for the purpose of our capex.

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Okay. Understood. So INR12,000 crores of capex is what you’re saying for FY ’24?

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

There was to be the higher operating cash flow and also use of the existing equity to kind of draw down to deliver our capex aspirations.

Girish Achhipalia — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Okay thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhishek Maheshwari from Sky Rich Wealth Management. Please go ahead.

Abhishek Maheshwari — Sky Rich Wealth Management — Analyst

Thank you for takingmy question. When we talk about Section 11, it gets us the full past cost pass-through. Do we also get a margin for that — is it only just cost that we are recovering?

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

So we get the full fixed cost. So whatever is our fixed was 95, we get the full fixed cost. So that is resumed to have building margin…

Abhishek Maheshwari — Sky Rich Wealth Management — Analyst

Okay. And secondly, regarding the Section 11 only, right now, it’s applicable to June. Is there any possibility of this becoming permanent going ahead or to soon to make any assumption?

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

It will not be permanent, but it will — again, if the summer condition continues, there is a shortage of power then it may get extended. Like last year also, it started from 5th May onwards to the 30th June got extended till the 31st of October and then got extended up to 31st December. So it all depends as to what is the demand supply and what sort of redeconditions are there and very difficult to predict what will happen.

Abhishek Maheshwari — Sky Rich Wealth Management — Analyst

Okay. And one question regarding the capex plan that we were discussing previously. What capex are you planning to spend on transmission and distribution in FY 24. I’m sorry, I missed a year what you mentioned.

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

So I mentioned to you that 3,000 we’ll do on the manufacturing. We will do about 4,500 for our renewable projects — and then we have some capex for our generation business GD and all that. And you can consider maybe about INR3,000, INR3,500 crores — but that number we can give you separately. Yes.

Abhishek Maheshwari — Sky Rich Wealth Management — Analyst

Got it. Understood. And one last question.

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Will be able to provide you but approximately, it is in this range.

Abhishek Maheshwari — Sky Rich Wealth Management — Analyst

Okay. Understood. And just one last question regarding the module manufacturing project. I think previous participant had already asked what — how will the economics be affected now that the solar module and wafer costs, everything is going down. Is your internal IRR also changing? Or is it more or less since the realization as well as cost both…

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

So when we had considered the manufacturing at that time, the cost of module was $0.18 with 40% basic customs duty. With that also, we were making very good returns. So now the model prices are still $0.21, $0.22. So we would still be doing very good.

Abhishek Maheshwari — Sky Rich Wealth Management — Analyst

Okay. Thank you very much.

Operator

The next question is from the line of Harshil Solanki from Equity Capital Advisors.

Harshil Solanki — Equity Capital Advisors — Analyst

Hi team good evening. My question is on the [Indecipherable] side. Sir, any update on the price revision that is expected in the [Indecipherable]?

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

I don’t know that — if it happens, we’ll let you know, we can’t predict so these things.

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

It all depends on the bidding process, and I think you should hear the financial ending has just happened. And I think in the next one quarter, we get to revenue prices as well.

Harshil Solanki — Equity Capital Advisors — Analyst

Okay. And what is the internal expectation on the price side? What are we expecting? How much cost on this?

Sanjeev Churiwala — Chief Financial Officer

[Indecipherable]

Harshil Solanki — Equity Capital Advisors — Analyst

… The revised prices, how much percentage increase are we budgeting…

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Seen that, that is a business we do if we get prices to our requirements. We do not get — we will not go and do that too.

Harshil Solanki — Equity Capital Advisors — Analyst

Okay, thanks.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Majumdar from B&K Securities.

Please go ahead.

Rajesh Majumdar — B&K Securities — Analyst

I actually got confused with one figure. So you mentioned that the RE capex is going to be only INR4,500 crores. So am I reading something wrong here that means you’re going to be adding just about one gigawatt this year? Or is there something i’m reading wrong? Because if you’re going to be adding just one gigawatt and you’re going to be expanding module capacity, the total India additions will be just about 10 gigawatts this year or I’m reading this wrong.

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

I’m not able to make out. Can you take this question off-line with Rajesh tomorrow.

Rajesh Majumdar — B&K Securities — Analyst

Yes, okay. Thank you.

Operator

[Operator Instructions]

Dr. Praveer Sinha — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director

Thank you, everyone. I know you still have a lot of questions. My suggestion is, please connect with Rajesh, and we’ll try to respond to all the questions you have. Also on some of the aspects on the details, which have been shared. If you feel that you want more details, more micro information on that, we should be in a position to share assets. It’s just that there are certain requirements in terms of governance, where we would like to share information in a way that is more acceptable to the market and also to the other stakeholders. So that’s why these changes have been made. But the purpose of changes is to bring more transparency and to make it simple to read.

And many times, many of the analysts have got back that it is very confusing. And so a lot of effort has been made by Rajesh and team to come up with the revised presentation. But we always keep on improving as your feedback will be useful for us to improve and provide more data and information, which is relevant and is useful for their requirements. So we look forward for your comments on that, and we look forward for the feedback, which will help us to make it much more and much simpler and much more detailed as it’s required. But in any case, whatever you would request, we would publish that offline [Technical Issues] you connect and we’ll more than happy — so once again, thank you, everyone, for joining and take care and hope to catch up soon in person…

Operator

[Operator Closing Remarks]