Styrenix Performance Materials Ltd (NSE: STYRENIX) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 25, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Bhupesh P Porwal — Chief Financial Officer
Rahul R. Agrawal — Managing Director
Chintan Doshi — Secretary, Compliance Officer & Legal Manager
Analysts:
Dhaval Shah — Analyst
Kalash Jain — Analyst
Radha Agarwalla — Analyst
Nirali Gopani — Analyst
Mihir Parikh — Analyst
Rahul Agarwal — Analyst
Ranveer Singh — Analyst
Vidhi Shah — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Performance Materials Limited Conference Call. We have with us today from the management of Performance Materials Limited, Mr Rahul Agarwal, Managing Director; Mr Bhupesh B. Porwal, Chief Financial Officer; and Mr Chintan Doshi, Manager, Legal and Company Secretary. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero and your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. Further, on behalf of the management of the company, we would also like to remind the participants that this call is being conducted, subject to and in-line with the disclaimer mentioned in the investor presentation as-is available on the stock exchanges. I now hand the conference over to Mr Bhupesh Porwal. Thank you and over to you, Mr Porwal.
Bhupesh P Porwal — Chief Financial Officer
Yeah, thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, Namaste, everyone. I am pleased to welcome you to our Q4 and the period ended March 2025 conference call. As we reflect on our performance in fiscal year 2025, I’m delighted to announce that we have witnessed a robust demand for our products in FY ’25, marking a significant growth trend. As informed earlier in the last quarter, we have executed the management handover for evolution of the Thailand Company on January 17, 2025. Some details of its assets, infrastructure and business has been mentioned by MD in his message in the investors presentation. Coming to the financial performance, Q4 FY ’25 highlights, sales volume for Q4 was 48.3 kt versus 47.5 kt in Q3 FY ’25 that — that is it has increased by 1.7% and by 9.5% compared to Q4 FY ’24, which was 44.1 kt. Revenue stood at INR702 crores in FY ’25 Q4 versus INR691 crores in Q3 FY ’25, that is increased by 1.6% and increased by 17.2% compared to Q4 FY ’24, which was INR599 cr. PBTIT stood at INR83 crores, that is 11.8% versus 75.4% versus INR75.4 crores, sorry, that is 10.9% in Q3 FY ’25 and INR74.2 crore — 12.4% in Q4 FY ’24. PAT stood at INR53.1 crore in Q4, that is 7.6% versus INR47.7 crores, 6.3% in Q3 FY ’25. Coming to the yearly highlights, sales volume has been increased by 12.8%. It has gone from 164 KT to 186 KT. Revenue has grown by 23.5% in comparison to the previous year, going from 222 to CR to 2744 CR. Yeah. PBDIT stood at INR356 crores, that is 12.9%, which is better by 0.7% compared to FY2024. And PAT stood at INR232 crores, that is 8.5%, which is better by 0.8% compared to FY 2024. The company has acquired Performance Silent Limited in January 2025 only and the consolidated results for the year ended, 31 March 2025 reflect — includes financial results of subsidiaries. But in the previous year 2022324, the company did not have any subsidiaries. Therefore, only standalone financial statements were prepared according — accordingly, the previous years and quarters figures, both years and the quarter’s figures both presented in the consolidated financial statements are derived from the standalone financial statements of the company and are not comparable with the current year’s consolidated figures. Coming to the consolidated highlights for the quarter-four, sales volume was overall 65kt, revenue stood at 940 cr, stood at 90 cr, that is 9.57%, PAT stood at 56.2 cr that in Q3 and that is 6%. For consolidated for the yearly highlights, sales volume was 203 kt, revenue was 2982 cr. PBITDA stood at 362 cr, that is 12.2% and PAT was 235.1 cr in Q4, that is 7.9%. This is all about financial highlights for the quarter and year ended March 2025, and now we may proceed to answer the questions you may have. Thank you very much.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press star and one on the touchstone phone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press. Participants are requested to use only handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles you. The first question is from the line of Dhaval Shah from Girik Capital. Please go-ahead.
Dhaval Shah
Yeah. Hello, sir. Great set of numbers. Am I audible?
Rahul R. Agrawal
Yeah.
Operator
Yes.
Dhaval Shah
Yes. Great. Great. Yes. Okay. So first small clarification from the presentation. In our Chairman’s comments, we mentioned about starting 50,000 tonne production earlier and it mentioned 2026 itself. So does it mean FY ’26 or calendar year ’26?
Rahul R. Agrawal
So early calendar year ’24,
Dhaval Shah
Calendar year. Okay, understood. Okay. So that capacity will be reflected like in FY ’27 did. Sorry,
Rahul R. Agrawal
That’s correct.
Dhaval Shah
Yeah, ’27, you will be starting the capacity.
Rahul R. Agrawal
Yeah, I mean it will be towards the end of financial year, you can say, 26 ’27. So you will get some benefit of it potentially in the next year — next financial year and the full benefit would come in the following financial year.
Dhaval Shah
Understood. So our installed capacity as of today would BE-2 lakh 5,000 tonnes, ABS and combined.
Rahul R. Agrawal
So the combined capacity now that we would have for this year because in the last year, we did a lot of debottlenecking activities and we did some improvements as well process. The total capacity, which we believe for this financial year would be to the tune of around 200,000 tons, roughly.
Bhupesh P Porwal
Yeah,
Dhaval Shah
200,000 tonne, which will be available for the entire current year.
Rahul R. Agrawal
Correct.
Bhupesh P Porwal
Yes.
Dhaval Shah
Okay, okay. So now we did around 1,85,000. Sure, please go on.
Rahul R. Agrawal
We do believe that we do believe that we would be carrying out some additional work, which could further augment some of that capacity in the middle of this year, but exactly how much that will enhance the overall capacity too is a little difficult to ascertain at this stage.
Dhaval Shah
Got it. So if the demand is there, can we grow our volumes by 10% over FY ’25 volumes, which is around 185
Rahul R. Agrawal
We believe so.
Dhaval Shah
We will have that much capacity to add another 10% on 185%.
Rahul R. Agrawal
Yeah. We hope
Dhaval Shah
Okay. Okay, okay. And so 2 lakh tonnes for the current year capacity and then you have some debottlenecking. And then for ’26, how the capacity — like how much capacity will we have, like how much growth can we can be supported?
Rahul R. Agrawal
I think if you refer back to our old investor presentation, we have outlined some numbers where we have mentioned exactly how the capacities will grow. Now some of these are estimates based on the activities which come in the middle of the year and are hard to predict exactly what that would happen. However, that forms a kind of a rough guideline and that would be true in this instance as well. So essentially, even this year, we do believe that our effective capacity will be actually a little bit more than 200,000 tonnes, whether it will be 205 or 210 will depend on exactly when we are able to complete these activities in the middle of this year. Again, like I mentioned, we do intend to add additional ABS capacity in the middle of the next financial year. So that will add some capacity for us in the next financial year as well. So I think we have given some guidelines on where those capacities will end-up. And I think it will be in-line with that.
Dhaval Shah
Got it. Sir, now coming to the P&L, if you look at the other expenses, now our other expenses for the quarter is around INR80 crore and we’ve done 48,000 tonnes vis-a-vis compared to the last quarter, December quarter, it was INR68 crore of other expenses and for a 47,500 tons volume. So this additional increase in other expenses around INR12 crores would be attributed to what?
Rahul R. Agrawal
So we have had some extraordinary expenses, one-off expenses in the quarter. Essentially we have had roughly INR11 crores, which can be attributed to certain name change expenses in GIDCs, we have two GIDC plants. We have a plant in Dahej and we have a plant in Nandhi which is under GIDC. And when we took over management control of the company, this required us to change the name registered with GIDC from to and this process sometimes takes longer. So this process, while it’s not been completed fully, it is coming to an end. And we have — we have taken a provisional expense to the tune of INR11 crores for that, which obviously is not a recurring expense. It’s a one-time expense which has been provision for in the last quarter. Also, there has been an additional expense, kind of an extraordinary expense, which is related to acquisition of the Thailand company, which is to the tune of INR4 crores. So about, you can say INR15 odd crores is an additional expense we have had in the last quarter, which is a turnoff expense and would not be a recurring cost to the company.
Dhaval Shah
Okay. Okay. So that this change of name is costing INR11 crores or does it have some line?
Rahul R. Agrawal
There is some — so-so the Industrial Development Corporation in Gujar, I’m assuming this will be similar for the rest of India as well. Whenever there is a name of — name change, basically the — the property is transferred to then to the new company’s name. At that time, there is a fee which has to be paid to the Industrial Development Corporation. And essentially this is a provision towards that.
Dhaval Shah
Understood. Got it. Thank you. And sir, last question,
Bhupesh P Porwal
Revenue and also payment to the revenue authorities also is there. So both GIDC as well as TAM duty to revenue operating?
Rahul R. Agrawal
Correct. I mean basically towards that line-item, multiple expenses will be there.
Dhaval Shah
Be there. Okay. And sir, how will your outlook on spreads for the current quarter, Q1 ’26 does the current trend continues?,
Rahul R. Agrawal
We don’t give forward-looking statements, but all I can say is that we are in-line to meet our targets for this year as well. And to the extent capacity is available for us, we should be able to, you know, have the kind of revenue and growth which we predict.
Dhaval Shah
Noted, sir. Thank you very much. Good luck.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Kalash Jain from AlfAccurate Advisors. Please go-ahead.
Kalash Jain
Hello. Thank you for the opportunity, sir, and congratulations on good set of numbers. So, sir, firstly, I just wanted to know like gain your view on the path for the Thailand acquisition and how the business will go on. So any light you can give on the Thailand business?
Rahul R. Agrawal
Do you have any other questions, Kalash, because I’d like to capture all your questions before answering.
Kalash Jain
Yes, yes, sir. And my other question would be related to our sales volume in the Thailand plant. So just two questions come in.
Rahul R. Agrawal
Okay. So as far as the Thailand business is concerned, I think Mr Purwal already mentioned we acquired — we took management control on the 17th of January. So effectively in the last quarter, we had a little less than 2.5 months of kind of running the plant and the business. In that time, in terms of overall volumes, it is to the tune of around 17,000 to 18,000 tonnes of sales which we have done from there, which is in-line with, you know what the plant has been doing. Overall, we do have a target to increase that capacity utilization in the plant over there. And we have taken a lot of steps such as expanding our sales infrastructure and strengthening the efforts in terms of validations with newer products as well from that plant. We do believe there is a great opportunity for us to do that. One of the positives that we have observed in the last quarter is that we have run the plant at a very-high capacity utilization just to be sure that the plant and the asset can support you know, higher volumes when they would be required from that facility with the demand coming in. So that has been effectively achieved and that’s a very positive sign. We do believe that with all the efforts that we are putting in, we would have within a reasonable period of time, be able to achieve very-high capacity utilizations with the Thailand business. So we don’t give again like I said, forward-looking statements. That business in terms of the customer profile, the profile is similar, but the markets are a little bit different. So we will need a little bit of time before we can be exactly sure of when those capacities will be completely filled up.
Kalash Jain
Okay, got it, sir. And sir, just on the realization at a Thailand plant. So like what would the part look like and in how much time can we take our realization on the upward scale? And-or secondly on the cost perspective, so for the Thailand part, how would the cost — how would the cost work? And will it be in the higher range only or how does it work? So just wanted your view?
Rahul R. Agrawal
No, it’s a process, Kalash. Like I mentioned, it’s a business we have recently taken over. You know, for the — for the price that has been paid-for the asset, we do believe there is significant value that will be generated from that asset for the organization as a whole. There are multiple technologies, which will also be of great benefit to the organization in Thailand as well as in India. Our market access is another key aspect as well as the capacities. So based on these three kind of strengths that the Thailand entity offers, we do believe from a medium to long-term perspective, there’ll be significant value which will be generated in terms of product mix, in terms of markets. And obviously, eventually all of this will affect the realizations in the business as well. Exactly what those realizations are going to be is very difficult to assess at this stage. Obviously, as you can tell from the result, we have had a positive quarter in the first-quarter of the acquisition itself. I think that’s a positive sign and a good sign. There is a lot of work to be done in terms of improving our cost position in Thailand in terms of capacity utilization, which would obviously also improve our cost position. In terms of our capacity kind of product mix improvements. So all of these things we are working on and we do believe that after a reasonable period of time, we’ll be able to give — shed more light on that. But it’s — I think it’s a positive sign for all the investors to note very clearly that there is a positive contribution from Thailand from the first-quarter itself.
Kalash Jain
Okay. And sir, just lastly, volume that we did in our Thailand subsidiary. So it was totally for the domestic only or like you had exported some of the volumes?
Rahul R. Agrawal
Are you talking about Thailand business for domestic as in — within Thailand?
Kalash Jain
Yeah, yeah, within Thailand. So all these volumes were within Thailand or you had exported something?
Rahul R. Agrawal
So there is a — so we do export a fair bit of product from our Thailand facility. We do have exports — significant exports into China, into Japan, into Korea, Vietnam, Indonesia and Thailand as well. We don’t give the exact breakup right now. This is a little bit sensitive information with regards to our competition in that region right now. But I can say that more than 50% is definitely exported out of Thailand.
Kalash Jain
Okay, sir, that was really helpful. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management will be able to address questions from all the participants in the conference, kindly limit your questions to three per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, please rejoin the queue. We’ll take the next question from the line of Radha from B&K Securities. Please go-ahead.
Radha Agarwalla
Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my first question was, in an AC refrigerator or a washing machine, I wanted to understand what is the total content in terms of KG separately for PS and ABS and also over the years how has this content evolved?
Rahul R. Agrawal
Okay. Hi, Radha, do you have any other questions?
Radha Agarwalla
Yes, sir, two more. Okay. I’ll state.
Rahul R. Agrawal
Please ask your questions.
Radha Agarwalla
Okay, sir. The second question is, I wanted to understand customer preferences for conventional ABAs when compared to mass ADA, especially in terms of cost and surface finish. So could you please explain in detail why a customer might choose conventional ABAs over mass ABS? And the third question is that what are the advantages of having sand as a backward integration, especially in context of our ABS production. So does our business models with in-house sand integration, offer a competitive edge over players focused solely on mass. Those are the three questions
Rahul R. Agrawal
Okay. So with regards to refrigerators, washing machines and ACs, the content of ABS and PS does vary quite a bit. If I look at the ABS consumption in say refrigerators and washing machines, it can be anywhere from 700 grams to as high as about 2.5 to 3 kilograms depending on the size and the model, which we are talking about. In air-conditioner, it can be either HIPS or ABS, broadly speaking, which is the body and that is again around 1.5 kilograms per unit on the PS side. The polystyrene in refrigerators and washing machine again is to the tune of again around between 500 grams or 600 grams to about 3 kilos, again depending on the size and model of the of the machine or the appliance. The evolution of usage of both these polymers, it has grown over the years. In fact, as more premiumization of, you know, consumer appliances has taken place, there is a certain aesthetics which are important and in those aesthetics ABS plays a key role. As you know, it’s a paintable product also offers electroplating and offers a very-high level of gloss and you can do pre-colors in many, many different shades, including metallic stuff. So there are a lot of advantages of these polymers. And as the models have become bigger, the consumptions have increased. And obviously as they have become a premium, you know, we have seen higher volumes grow in that per unit as well. With regards to your question on conventional versus mass ABS, in India, currently, there is no mass ABS which is being sold. We are not exactly sure what would be the preference. So I’m not the you know, I’m not sure exactly how this will play-out in the marketplace. What we understand is of conventional ABS we do understand that as far as conventional ABS is concerned, we have a lot of versatility in being able to provide several different grades and customization, which can be carried out because it’s not a continuous process, obviously. So you know, like you’ve asked the question about SAN as backward integration. So this question is also interlinked because when we produce sun and we produce rubber, we have a great deal of flexibility on what kind of grade we can produce for the end-customer. So even for different applications within, say, ABS. There are different sand grades, which can be developed because you know sun, for instance provides the chemical resistance for the final product also provides style. So when these properties are required in a higher — at a higher-level, then we can kind of adjust the dosage or the percentage of accordingly. There are of course, it’s a very — there are a lot of other nuances of how the sand would be used and what properties it would add. And I have just captured very few of these in explaining this kind of advantage to you. But definitely, San, I would not say it’s purely a backward integration. San actually is end-use product as well. We do sell-in the market close to 18,000 tonnes. In fact, we do a lot of sale of sand from our Thailand facility as well. And we have some very special sand also in our Thailand facility, which eventually will help us in developing more applications in India as well, not to mention other markets. So yeah, so there is — there is a lot of advantages of having sun and we’ll see as far as conventional and mass ABS goes how the market develops. But currently, 100% of the market is the emulsion ABS route, which we produce currently.
Radha Agarwalla
So you mentioned that in AC, HIPS and ABS is used. So since ABS is costlier per compared to HIPS, please explain a bit on how is both used in the same product? And second follow-up is in terms of cost of production, will in-house sand have lower-cost of production for manufacturing when compared to mass AD?
Rahul R. Agrawal
As far as ACs are concerned, typically, it is a philosophy of the manufacturer because both the products are used essentially for the body of the — for the outdoor — for the indoor unit. And for the outdoor unit, for instance, there is also some glass-filled ABS which is used. Polystyrene is not used in that instance. So — but it’s only for the indoor unit where you could use HIPS or ABS. So some of it has to do with exactly how the positioning of the manufacturer is of the particular model that they offer and the properties they wish to have within their unit and that would determine. In terms of pricing, you know, while the pricing generally of ABS would be a little bit higher, we have seen the reverse happening as well between HIPS and ABS at times for that specific application. But many times companies when they are doing a specific kind of usage, they stick to that for a longer period and do not change based on the volatility associated with it very quickly.
Radha Agarwalla
In terms of cost of production, so for the in-house sand
Rahul R. Agrawal
So in Mass ABS, Mars ABS, I’m not an expert on mass we don’t produce. But from what I understand in ABS, you know, there is no sand which is per se produced. It’s a NC2 process of producing mass ABS directly. So there is no real there is no real comparison between SAN and mass ABS.
Radha Agarwalla
Thank you for answering all my questions.
Rahul R. Agrawal
Sure.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nirali Gopani from Unique PMS. Please go-ahead.
Nirali Gopani
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Rahul, just one clarification. So if I take-out the exceptional nature of other expense, the Thailand EBITDA margin is also quite reasonable of around 8% to 9%. So is that understanding correct? And if how were we doing this in the first-quarter?
Rahul R. Agrawal
No, no. Bhupesh, can you shed more light on exactly the EBITDA margin of the Thailand because the exceptional items are for the Indian business and not for the Thailand business, but Bhupesh can give more idea on exactly what the EBITDA is on the Thailand business.
Bhupesh P Porwal
Yeah, sure. So the extraordinary expenses, which was explained by MD in one of the earlier questions are for the standalone basis for the India company. And for the Thailand company, the EBITDA has been 4.1% for this quarter. And I think from last — since we have taken over, this is the first-quarter and it is a positive one. And earlier all quarters have been in red, in fact. So this is a very, very big change and welcome change in this quarter for the Thalin business.
Nirali Gopani
Okay. Perfect. Perfect. And also in our earlier presentation, when we indicated the growth plans. So we have some debottlenecking plan for FY ’26, which you also mentioned in your remarks for FY ’27 also. And then we are pre-poling our ABS capacity. So what gives you the confidence of utilizing this capacity as and when it comes up because we have now additional capacity from Thailand also. So some qualitative comments will be very helpful.
Rahul R. Agrawal
So the Thailand entity essentially the product made in the Thailand entity, there is no significant sale to India from the Thailand entity. The market is a little bit different in terms of the product that we produce from Thailand. In India, of course, you know, whatever we have done over the last few years, we have been able to effectively produce more and sell whatever we have been able to produce. So that is kind of a basis of confidence for us. We started at a kind of an average run-rate of about 120,000 tonnes of all products put together. We were doing about 60,000 tons of ABS when we took our management control from the previous management in ’22. From there, we are at about 186 last year, which is growth of more than 50% and we’ve been able to do that without compromising in terms of realization. So we do believe that the market will grow over the period of, you know, kind of expansions, which we are planning and additional capacities which are coming in the market and the market overall would still be able to support essentially all the capacities which should be — which would be available from local producers.
Nirali Gopani
And this kind of — I know you never comment on the EBITDA margin, but what we have done in Q4 is quite reasonable. So you feel that this number can be sustained for the full-year FY ’26?
Rahul R. Agrawal
So notwithstanding any significant events and there are quite a few which go on in the world, I think our strategy has held us well, which is we are augmenting capacities, we are expanding our product lines and we are reducing costs and this is an ongoing effort in every quarter, every day. And that has helped us ensure that regardless of whatever geopolitical shocks are going on, we are still able to maintain or do better than what we have done previously, so we still maintain the same line of working.
Nirali Gopani
Perfect. No, that’s it from my side. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Meet Parik from Mihir Shah; Company. Please go-ahead. Mr MR. Parik, I have unmuted your line.
Mihir Parikh
Hello. Hello.
Operator
Yes, sir, we can hear you.
Mihir Parikh
Thank you. Thank you. So congratulations on a good set of numbers, sir. I had a basic accounting question. So if we look at our cash-flow statement, so the working capital has gone up significantly, like inventory has gone up by — there has been a year-on-year change of almost INR385 crores or something like that. And the trader — the debt has also gone up quite a bit. So could you shed some light on that? Hello?
Bhupesh P Porwal
Hello. Yeah. So may you are talking about the standalone part.
Mihir Parikh
Sir, standalone or consolidated like standalone 385%, I’m not sure of the consolidated number, but there also there has been quite a big swing. So could you shed some light on that?
Bhupesh P Porwal
Yeah, sure. So basically — basically, you must be hearing about debottlenecking exercises and all other things going on. And for future expansion plants also, there has to be a lot of things going into the plant. So we have built-up some inventories in-between so that the business doesn’t suffer for that. So yes, the inventories have increased, which will be — which will be normalized again in a year or so once our all projects are getting completed. And at Thailand also, if you see, the inventory has increased a bit as MDA mentioned in a caution just few minutes back to understand the assets and to see those how those assets are working, we have run the full throttle there. And so that’s the reason — these are the two reasons both the places — two different reasons for increasing the inventory. Thailand, it will be normalized soon maybe, yeah. So that increase will not carry-forward going on. It will be as per the business norms and our practice only.
Mihir Parikh
All right, sir. And sir, my second question is related to capex. So the number that we had guided for this year. So are you on-track for that?.
Bhupesh P Porwal
So capex is as per plan only. So as mentioned, we will be commissioning 50 KT, we’ll getting ABS capacity of 50 KT and mid of the calendar year or later part of the calendar year of 2026. And it is — the plan is as it is, so no change in the plan. We are — in fact, this has been preponed. In fact, we had planned earlier later, but as informed you in the last quarter, it has been preponed and we are sticking to that and we are sure we’ll be able to achieve those dates.
Mihir Parikh
Thank you, sir. That was helpful.
Operator
Thank you thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahul Agarwal from Assets. Please go-ahead.
Rahul Agarwal
Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Very good evening to everybody on the call. Just few clarifications on whatever has been discussed so-far. So fiscal ’26 and ’27, volume growth essentially depends on two things. One is, of course, the debottlenecking which will happen during the year, which is why we are carrying higher inventory in India. And second is, we could see some ramp-up on Thailand as well. Just wanted to understand, I mean, at 1,85,000 tonnes of sales already, which is almost like 90% utilization. Is — are these plants — can these plants run at 100% in India? That’s one question. And second is, you know, is it very different between ABSPS or both plants can run at 100% in India? And if we include debottlenecking, of course, we can — we can try and increase some bit of sales volume this year. So about 10%, 15% is something which we should build or not is I wanted to clarify. That’s the first question.
Rahul R. Agrawal
Dahul, if you can ask your other questions as well, I’ll appreciate it.
Rahul Agarwal
Sure. Second was on capex. As Mr Bhupesh explained, it’s sticking to earlier plans. Just wanted to know the HIPS expansion. I think about 45,000 tons is something which we’re supposed to add. Will that — will that be as well? Like will that happen in fiscal ’26? And if yes, then just wanted to know the overall capex budget for the company for fiscal ’26 overall and ’27, if that is possible? And third question was on working capital. Can we optimize from here on? I understand current inventory is high. I completely understand that. But just wanted to know when I look at some of other listed peers, especially on polyestine, I think they operate like very, very efficiently on something like a zero to 10 day kind of working capital cycle. And I look at numbers in more detail, I see a lesser receivable cycle. So maybe is the difference more so because of polyesterne versus APS that ABS is more of a credit market versus polyesterine? And in your view, how much can we optimize, let’s say, if we take a two-year view on India business or do you foresee that our working out cycles can actually come down to like those kind of levels? Those are my three questions. Thank you.
Rahul R. Agrawal
Okay, Rahul, first of all, thanks for joining on to all of you, all the participants joining on us Sunday. I appreciate everyone taking — making sure it’s convenient. I know it’s not the ideal day, but if you expect the time that you are giving to the organization. First, your question on whether the plants can be run at 100%. So the plant is running at 100% all. It has been running for the last at least two years that we have taken our management control. It’s just that definition of what that 100% has kept on changing based on what we are doing each year, right? I have explained this in the past that as we carry-out some process improvement or debottlenecking, we realize that certain additional capacity is possible. And that is the same philosophy with which we are planning to run-in this financial year as well. And we do believe there is some additional capacities which are possible. So we did complete some exercises, say, towards the end of December last year when we did debottlenecking of our plant for Aba, which we went up to 27kt, which allows us to make more ABS and that will translate to a higher-volume this year-on PS as well, we did some work, it was the middle of last year, which again the full capacity would be available this year. So those additional capacities would be available to us as well. And to that extent, we will have higher volumes. So this is going to — this is going to happen and we are continuously working in that direction. So we do believe that, again, going back to the earlier forecast of what volumes we had mentioned, we should be very similar to that. On HIPS, in my note, I have mentioned that we have got an indication from our engineering firm that they would be ready with some kind of an estimation very, very soon. So once that estimation is ready and this is obviously a certain estimate, which is within 10% to 20% of the overall capex. While we had made an estimation earlier, we would have a more accurate data-based on their engineering study. So once that is out, we will be able to tell you exactly how much that will cost and when that will come online as well. That is be the result of that engineering story — engineering study. With regards to working capital cycles, if you again look at the last two years, there has been a lot of changes and this is primarily because as Bhupesh already detailed, that when we do debottlenecking, we essentially look at certain parts of the process, which you know I need to account for a larger inventory for us and we do that and that increases our inventories. On working capital, as far as receivables and debtors are concerned, there is not a major difference between, again, TS and ABS. In fact, I would say it is very similar in terms of the credit terms. So there is no major gap over there. I think overall working capital is getting affected largely based on the inventories than anything else. And we do believe that till we are growing, while as some of our peers already are running — already have very-high capacities, we are running at very much higher capacity utilizations overall, which is why we are in the situation we are at. As far as ABS is concerned, I think we are a little bit better than our peers. So I think on polystyrene as well, you know, we would be doing fine, if not for having to account for a higher buildup of inventory to manage sales. So I think that’s what it is and this is what we are trying to maintain.
Rahul Agarwal
Just few follow-ups. So firstly, would you — is that a guess for volume growth for fiscal ’26 for India business. So
Rahul R. Agrawal
Like I said, I think we should be able to do you know growth in-line with what capacities would be available to us and this would be higher than 200,000 tonnes, whether it’s 205 or 210, I’m not exactly sure right now. But to that order of that magnitude, we would have growth in volumes in India.
Rahul Agarwal
And HIPS will definitely not be part of fiscal ’26, right? I mean, even if we finalize that estimations very soon, the production will start sometime in fiscal ’27. Is that correct?
Rahul R. Agrawal
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, let’s see what the engineering studies say. I don’t want to put the horse before the cart, so let the study come in and I’m in a better position to answer that question then.
Rahul Agarwal
Got it. Any overall capex number for the business overall fiscal ’26, what budgets are you working with?,
Rahul R. Agrawal
Bhupesh, do we have a number on that right now?
Bhupesh P Porwal
So maybe we can — we — the things are getting finalized soon, maybe in next fortnight or so, 15 days or so and then we can definitely let you know exact numbers, which we’ll be spending in this year and what numbers we’ll be spending in next year. Yeah. Only one additional point here for working capital, maybe slightly more or one of one reason is more there. So what I had mentioned, we had some vessels coming together because of some problem at one of the vendors and then couple of two to three vessels that came in the last week of March. Otherwise it would have been staggered and then we would have not got so much of inventory and screwed up my working capital at the March-end. So maybe an operational issue which all companies have. So this is also one of the things in the working capital thing there.
Rahul Agarwal
Got it. One last question on Thailand business and I’ll just get back-in the queue. On the volume outlook for ’26, you said we can run — we run — ran this capacity rather full throttle this quarter, which yields about 18,000 tonnes, if I analyze that is we are almost closer to 75% utilization. So just wanted to know like in terms of volumes, what could be like the peak performance of this entity? And I understand it will take a long-time, but just wanted to know that as of now, Thailand can actually sell ABS, SAN and rubber all three to third-parties? That is one. And the second question on that was, assuming that it’s only ABS and some merchant sales for sand and some sales of rubber, is this entity like a INR300 crore EBITDA full-year at peak utilization whenever it happens? That’s the two questions.
Rahul R. Agrawal
Where did the INR300 crore number come from, Rahul? I’m curious.
Rahul Agarwal
Hi, I’m just multiplying INR30 a kg into 100,000 tonnes of sales volume.
Rahul R. Agrawal
No, that’s — I would not look at it like that. See, it’s a different market. It’s a different product profile. So you know, it works a little bit differently in Thailand than what we are used to seeing in India. It’s still going to take a little bit of time for us to come to numbers, which we can assess. So we have not given really any guidance on that and we are not very comfortable giving any guidance today. In terms of overall capacity, the nameplate capacity of the plant has been mentioned in a presentation earlier, which has been shared with the larger community. It stood at tune of 120,000 tons roughly, which includes rubber, sand, compounding everything. And that number I do believe based on what we have done in the first-quarter is achievable from a production. In terms of sales, when and how that will happen is something which we will require a little bit of time to assess and-answer. On EBITDAs, again, will be a function of how the capacity utilization takes place in terms of specific product mixes, all the markets that we cater to. So multiple questions need to be answered before we can answer such a question. It’s only been 2.5 months, right?
Rahul Agarwal
Sure. I appreciate that. But we do sell sal and rubber outside, right, 2/3 parties apart from ABS, is that correct?
Rahul R. Agrawal
That is correct.
Rahul Agarwal
Paul okay. I’ll get back-in the queue. Thank you so much and all the best for coming time.
Bhupesh P Porwal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants to kindly limit their questions to three per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, please rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Singh from Yash Securities. Please go-ahead.
Ranveer Singh
Hi, Raul.
Rahul R. Agrawal
Hi,. Ranveer.
Ranveer Singh
Rahul said that the volumes for Thailand were around 17,000 INR18,000. So if I see the Indian realization, they stand at around INR125,000 a question actually and the Thailand business is around INR135,000 per ton realization.
Operator
Let’s just saying your voice yeah your audio is not clear sir because there is a lot of background noise from your end.
Ranveer Singh
Is it better?
Operator
Please try asking your question once more
Ranveer Singh
I’m asking that the India realizations stand at approximately INR145,000 rupees per ton whereas the Thailand realizations are like INR1,35,000 rupees per ton. What is the reason for the delta?
Rahul R. Agrawal
The product profile in Thailand is completely different from the one in India. There is no comparison so one can’t say we are not essentially a lot of the products we are selling are, you know in terms of formulation, in terms of application are also very, very different. So we — there is no clear way to tell you exactly why they are different. It’s just that I guess the market for the products in Thailand again is different from the market that we have in India, the type of grades that we supply and the type of product mix that we have. So that could effectively make the realization what it is. So there is no clear-cut way to compare the two. So — but in terms of cost position, again, there is a lot of difference between what we do in India and Thailand. So there is no — there is no way to compare, it’s not apples-to-apples.
Ranveer Singh
Okay. Thank you, Rahul. You just answered my question and all the best.
Bhupesh P Porwal
Thank you.
Rahul R. Agrawal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pratik Kothari from CR Kothari. Please go-ahead.
Vidhi Shah
Hello, sir.
Operator
Ma’am, I’m sorry to interrupt you. Please introduce yourself and proceed with your question, please.
Vidhi Shah
Hello, sir. My name is Shah. I’m speaking from CR Brokers. So my first question is, I want to understand what is the — what is the realization that in India and compared to Thailand, will those realizations be higher in-line or same? And my second question is, could you just correct me again, the Thailand capacity is 185 kiloton and the existing India capacity is 200 kiloton. So the new capacity will be close to 385 kiloton in FY ’26. So is that understanding correct?
Rahul R. Agrawal
No, the capacity in Thailand is not 185 kt. I already just mentioned on the previous call as well and it’s there in the earlier presentation. The capacity in Thailand is closer to 125,000 tonnes, including all products. India capacities are closer to 200,000 tons, you’re correct in that sense. So the overall capacity comes to about 320 as of now at this moment, which is of course, a changing number based on what we are able to achieve in terms of certain improvements during the course of this year. As far as realizations in India and Thailand are concerned, realizations in India are fairly stable or growing year-on-year. These numbers are easy to calculate based on the results which are in front of you. With regards to Thailand, of course, it’s early days and there is a lot of work which is going on to understanding where these realizations are coming from, how what we can do in terms of improving it and there are multiple factors at play in such as capacity utilization, product mix, you know and in terms of cost position as well in Thailand, there is a lot of work to be done. So realizations in Thailand is something which we do believe there is a lot of room to improve on to what extent and where they can be is hard to determine at this stage.
Vidhi Shah
And also the 17,000 tonnes that is produced for Thailand so that is produced for you said 1.5 months approximately. So based on that annualized, it can reduce closer to 136 kilo 136 kilotons in a year. But if I look previously, the —
Rahul R. Agrawal
17 kt is for the quarter, ma’am. It’s from the 1st of January until the 31st of March. And that is not a production number, that is a sales number, okay. The production number is different from the sales number. Go-ahead go-ahead.
Vidhi Shah
Hi, sir, sir, that answers my question.
Rahul R. Agrawal
Yeah.
Operator
Thank you. The next question, which is a follow-up question is from the line of Dhaval Shah from Giri Capital. Please go-ahead.
Dhaval Shah
Yes, sir, just one question. Any positive or negative surprises post the acquisition of Thailand unit in terms of cost of operations, in terms of receivables, in terms of contract with suppliers, anything you would like to highlight?
Rahul R. Agrawal
So, thanks for the question. So we did a fairly extensive due-diligence process when we had taken over the Thailand entity in terms of a financial tax, environmental you know, legal due-diligence. We do believe that whatever the findings in that due-diligence are in-line with what we are seeing at the asset. Generally speaking, we are quite encouraged by the quality of the asset and the team. Some of the questions which had to be answered for us was essentially ensuring that the plant can actually indeed produce at a much higher-level, which it has not been previously. So we tested that theory by doing it ourselves when we took over management, hence also resulted in some higher inventories. So that’s something which is, I guess, it’s not a surprise, but I would say it’s a positive affirmation of what we wanted to see. As far as the business is concerned and what we are doing over there, it’s very much in-line. Of course, there are geopolitical events which are taking place globally and those who have an impact on our business as well, this has got nothing to do with the entity in isolation, but since there are global factors at play here, that does have an impact on how we conduct our business as well.
Dhaval Shah
Got it, sir. Okay. Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. The next follow-up question is from the line of Radha from B&K Securities. Please go-ahead.
Radha Agarwalla
Hello, sir. Thank you again. So over the past two to three years, China has added significant monoma capacity. So do you believe that this could lead to a wave of downstream capacity additions in products like PS and ABS, which could potentially increase imports into India? And subsequently, how competitive are we with the Chinese players? And in that context, what are the export opportunities for us,
Rahul R. Agrawal
Thanks,. Very good question. So essentially, China’s capacities have not only increased in styrene monoma there, but increased in the entire petrochemical chain across all polymers, across all monomers and basic chemicals. So already in terms of capacities of ABS and polystyrene, not to mention other polymers, China is already producing far more than it actually needs even today. And that’s not the case this year and it’s not been also just the case last year, but even before that. So this has always exerted pressure in the subcontinent, including India as well from manufacturers not only in China, but also in Korea, Taiwan, Thailand and the entire region. So this is something that we have — we are accustomed to. We do understand how this works. The idea is for us as an organization, how we are able to differentiate our — in our products and in terms of our offering to our customers what we can do. So I think we have been able to demonstrate that in India effectively. I do believe in Thailand as well, we have some very differentiated technologies, which hold us in good stead today and will continue to do so going-forward. So it’s — for a lot of the products we produce in Thailand, we are, you know, one of very few producers and in some grades, for instance, there is no producer for that insurance contract also. So to that extent, you know, all the capacities which have come up in that region are not directly-comparable to what we do currently as a company.
Radha Agarwalla
But sir, if there is an overcapacity in China in, then why is there not much dumping happening from China to India in poly?
Rahul R. Agrawal
Well dumping does happen from time-to-time opportunistically but it’s not a continuous phenomenon from China. I think in terms of again preferences by customers in India, there is a preference for domestic manufacturers. There are multiple reasons for that and we are still able to, so to speak, keep our relationships and business intact in India in-spite of competition.
Radha Agarwalla
Sir, in other chemical companies we have seen that whenever there is an overcapacity then the dumping happens at such a price that the margins of Indian players could get affected unless there is an anti-dumping duty. So given that there is an overcapacity and there is still margin stability in Indian players, so I’m able to understand why isn’t it happening? Why isn’t this phenomena happening in polystylene?
Rahul R. Agrawal
So we believe that even within polystyrene we have certain products which are not very, very easy and straightforward to replace so in the markets, in packaging as well as in appliances, there is a fair amount of validation, fair amount of customization, which also takes place. Probably not as much as ABS, but still to some degree, it is there. And the preference, again, as long as we are competitive, it just does not work like a pure basic commodity where switching from one-product to the other is as easy or as straightforward.
Radha Agarwalla
How much capacity China would have in, sir?
Operator
MS. Radha, I’m sorry to interrupt you, ma’am. There are others who are waiting. I would request you to kindly rejoin the queue ma’am.
Radha Agarwalla
Okay. Thank you, sir. And thank you for answering all my questions.
Operator
Thank you, ma’am. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take the last question for today, which is from the line of Rahul Agarwal from Assets. Please go-ahead, sir.
Rahul Agarwal
Thank you so much for the follow-up. Just one thing on the presentation for the company for the 4th-quarter results, the industry outlooks like talks about a very weak kind of start to first-quarter. I just wanted to understand, should we read more into it or is it more like a quarterly volatility where it settled down over the year? That’s one. Second was on this entire discussion of steering monover imports from China. I just wanted to know is there a BIS risk here because I’m not really sure if the BI standards are applicable for — the QCO norms are applicable for sterene. And the third was any comments on the pricing of ABS and in India right now? Or if you could just help me understand the outlook for the full-year? That’s all. Thank you.
Rahul R. Agrawal
Yeah. So with regards to our comments on quarter volatility, you’re right, Rahul, it is in-line with typically what we see every year and there is no major change major change in that and not too much to read into it, I guess. At the beginning of the quarter, yes yes, there was a little bit of, you know, you can say kind of a muted sentiment, more muted sentiment on account of tax in the US. But I think this has settled down. We don’t see a major change, I guess from previous years. So it’s similar. With regards to BIS for styrene, we do believe it is — it is to be implemented this year. It’s not happened yet. So styrene monomer itself, you know from China anywhere doesn’t come, it’s not very competitive in India historically as well. I think in terms of downstream from styrene, yes, there is a BIS on ABS. So to that extent, ABS coming in from China, it becomes a little bit trickier. So polystyrene, currently there is no BIS, but there is, you know that we do believe would come up in time as well. So that would limit some amount of from China. Well, currently, while there is not, we still don’t see dumping to the extent which people fear. So there is no issue there. In terms of pricing for ABS and PS, currently, we believe it is stable. There is no major change from what we have seen in previous years since we are managing the company and it is largely expected to remain in-line with that.
Operator
Thank you, sir. As a — as that was the last question for today, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr Chintan Doshi for closing comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Chintan Doshi
Thank you. Thank you everyone for joining us today on earnings call. We appreciate your interest and time in the company. We look-forward to answer you in the next meeting, which will be announced at suitable time in future. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you very much, sir. Thank you, members of the management. On behalf of Performance Materials Limited, that concludes this conference. We thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.
Rahul R. Agrawal
Thank you. Thank you.
Bhupesh P Porwal
Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you, sir. Have a great day