Steelcast Ltd (NSE: STEELCAS) Q2 2025 Earnings Call dated Nov. 11, 2024
Corporate Participants:
Chetan Tamboli — Managing Director
Umesh Bhatt — Company Secretary
Subhash Sharma — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Ronak Jain — Analyst
Kiran B — Analyst
Harshil Solanki — Analyst
Khush Nahar — Analyst
Sahil Rohit Sanghvi — Analyst
Ashwini Agarwal — Analyst
Darshan Jhaveri — Analyst
Harshil Solanki — Analyst
Arnav Sachdev — Analyst
Rushabh — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Steelcast Limited Q2 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference call is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ronak Jain from Orient Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Ronak Jain — Analyst
Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Q2 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call of Steelcast Limited. Today on this call, we have Mr. Chetan Tamboli, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Rushil Tamboli, Wholetime Director; Mr. Subhash Sharma, Executive Director and Chief Financial Officer and Mr. Umesh Bhatt, Company Secretary.
Before we begin this call, I would like to give a short disclaimer. This call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on beliefs, opinions and expectations as of today. Actual results may differ materially. These statements are not guarantees of future performance, and involve unforeseen risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. A detailed Safe Harbor statement is given in the investor presentation of the company, which has been uploaded on the stock exchange and the company’s website as well.
With this, I now hand over the call to Mr. Chetan Tamboli sir, for his opening remarks. Over to you, sir.
Chetan Tamboli — Managing Director
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. As we enter the Q2 FY ’25 results season, we find ourselves navigating a landscape with serious disturbances to the world economy, on the Middle East crisis, Russia-Ukraine crisis and a very disturbed geopolitical situation. Major central banks have initiated rate cuts this year, and some more likely to happen in coming quarters. In the latest economic review, the global agency IMF has indicated that the battle against inflation has largely been won with prospects for global growth showing signs of stabilization. The U.S. economy too is likely to be projected to grow by an additional 20 basis points, reaching to 2.8%. Indian government-led infrastructure spending remains robust, reflecting positive momentum across key sectors.
For ease of communication, I have rounded out most of the numbers. During our Q4 FY ’24 call and Q1 FY ’25 concall, we anticipated subdued quarters, Q1 and Q2 FY ’25. This has happened as we anticipated. There will be revenue degrowth on a year-over-year basis primarily due to the liquidation of inventory in North America, Europe and India. We remain steadfast in our optimism for a performance turnaround starting from Q3 FY ’25 as anticipated and communicated earlier.
In Q2, we reported revenue of approximately INR75.9 crores, a marginal drop of 2% compared to preceding quarter. Despite this slowdown or disciplined management and commitment to managing operating expenses allowed us to maintain a good EBITDA margin of 27.8% compared to 26.8% in the preceding quarter. In spite of subdued top line, we did our best to optimize costs during these challenging times.
Our EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR21.1 crores compared to INR20.8 crores in the preceding quarter. Our PAT for the quarter is INR13.3 crores with a PAT margin of 17.5% as compared to INR12.9 crores with a PAT margin of 16.7% in the preceding quarter. This reflects our continued commitment to cost optimization during the challenging periods.
Our revenue mix for Q2 FY ’25 consists of 52.9% from exports and 47.1% from domestic sales. Despite subdued overall performance, export sales showed resilience growing approximately 5% sequentially and an impressive 32% year-on-year compared to Q2 FY ’24. Domestically, the mining and construction equipment industry in India experiences slowed down during the quarter, affected by heavy rains. However, industry reports suggest strong growth prospects for India’s NCE sector with localization levels expected to reach 70%, 80% over the next five years, seven years. Given Steelcast’s established presence in the sector, we anticipate substantial benefits from this localization, and alongside support from the government’s sustained focus on infrastructure development. This emphasis is expected to accelerate new project awards and NCE volumes faster than previously anticipated in the future.
Material costs, manufacturing expenses power, fuel, stores and spares are higher due to increase in production in Q2 FY ’25 compared to Q1 FY ’25. Amid this challenging macro environment, we have remained focused on our strategic initiatives to cultivate new customers and expand our export markets from 15 to 18 countries over the next two years. We have diversified from mining-focused part to emerging sectors, including the Rail Road business, which we aim to grow from 3% in FY ’24 to 20% in the next three years.
Our efforts in ground engaging tools are progressing well and in the defense sectors too. We successfully completed deliveries of critical components, becoming the first company in India to develop these items for the defense industry in India.
Over the past three years, Steelcast has maintained the debt free status, both short term and long term, which has allowed us to avoid financial cost amid global market slowdowns caused by inventory destocking. We have been building cash reserves in recent quarters, and do not foresee the need to utilize bank credit facilities. This prudent financial management positions us well to navigate current challenges while we strengthen our foundation for future growth. I’m happy to share that our three reserves invested in Bank FDs, government securities and mutual funds are at INR66 crores now as of 30th September, this is likely to further increase as of 31-03-’25. We are now focusing on using internal accruals to fuel our capex starting from FY ’26.
I hope everyone would have noticed our announcement on stock exchanges for getting a very prestigious award from a very important customer. This is a great pride for our company and an accomplishment of a major milestone in the history of the company. Let me share you see few other parameters, which might be helpful to investors. Our capacity utilization has gone up further in Q2 compared to Q1. PBT margin is better at 23.6% to 22.7% in Q1 FY ’25. ROCE and ROI are more or less same in Q1 and Q2. Working capital turnover is more or less same in Q1 and Q2 FY ’25. Fixed assets turnover and total assets turnover are more or less same in Q1 and Q2. Current ratio is more or less same in Q1 and Q2. Debtor days improved substantially from 97 days to 63 days in Q2, thanks to our customers.
With this overview, I would now like to open the floor for questions, and thank you all for your attention and continued support. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much sir. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Kiran B. from Tabletree Capital. Please go ahead.
Kiran B
Hello sir. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir. I want to just zoom out of the quarterly numbers, and when we ask you a question, I know there’s a lot of volatility in the U.S. market as well. But — are we seeing any strategic shift in the castings industry, either steel or aluminum from the U.S. and European markets to India. I mean, is it just the analyst community like us overthinking this, or is there a structural trend that is actually moving towards India from an aluminum and steel capacity from your perspective?
Chetan Tamboli
I’m really not aware about aluminum because we make only steel castings. And what we are seeing is a definite shifting from China to India, okay? And then whoever are the good players are in India will be benefited a lot. This is how we see it.
Kiran B
Got it, sir. And this is, primarily, we are — obviously, what we are seeing is China used to supply to the U.S. market, if I get the clarification, right? China used to supply a lot of stuff to some of our clients in the U.S. market, and those clients are essentially saying, hey, India why don’t you pick it up, hey, Steelcast, why don’t you pick it up, because we are always very good players in it.
Chetan Tamboli
Correct, that shift is happening.
Kiran B
Okay. So, this is — I mean, is it like structural, sir? Or is it because China’s — I mean based on previous concalls, China’s cost structure has changed, and therefore, they are slightly more expensive than us in the Steelcast?
Chetan Tamboli
I mean there are several factors which is leading to this structural shift. One is geopolitics. One is the cost structure. One is overdependence on China. So, they are a combination of results. So, we have seen the shift very clearly here.
Kiran B
Got it. Got it. Got it. Sir, just last question, last question from my side. Sir, in terms of we are at whatever INR400 crores, INR410 crores from a revenue perspective, given the strategic shift, fundamental shift, when do you think — I mean, in your estimate at this point in time, I know it’s difficult to call, but just in your estimate, when do you think we can potentially reach INR1,000 crore revenue?
Chetan Tamboli
See, the present facilities and capacity, what we have will get us to about INR800 crores, okay? And if we do capex as we are planning, which will start somewhere in ’26, then that should be another minimum of INR400 crores. So, both put together, if we do that capex, so then the volume will be about INR1,200 crores, and that might happen in maybe, it’s a wild guess, but maybe ’29, ’30.
Kiran B
’29, ’30. Got it, sir. Thank you so much and I will join back in the queue.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our next question is from the line of Harshil Solanki from Equitree Capital. Please go ahead.
Harshil Solanki
Hi team, good evening. Sir, I have multiple questions. First is we are saying that Q3 onwards, there will be a turnaround. So, can you throw some light on the order book or the production schedule that you have in hand from the customer, which is giving us this confidence?
Chetan Tamboli
I’ll request Mr. Umesh Bhatt, our Company Secretary to give those numbers. We will just wait for a while. Can you ask your another question?
Harshil Solanki
Yes sir. Sir, the American Rail Road supplies were expected to ramp up from Q3, and we are already in November. So, [Speech Overlap]
Operator
Harshil, can you please switch to handset mode, your voice is having an echo?
Harshil Solanki
Hello, is it better?
Operator
Yes, it’s better now.
Harshil Solanki
Yes. So, the American Rail Road supplies were expected to ramp up by Q3. So, can you throw some light on where are we now?
Chetan Tamboli
There is a slight delay as of now as we speak. So, hopefully things should — we might have to wait for another three or four months, but what was to start from October onwards has not started. It should start — maybe another — it’ll take another three to four months.
Harshil Solanki
Okay. Sir, sir, what is the delay exactly about? Is it something from our end or the customer’s side?
Chetan Tamboli
See, there are group of components, which we have already developed. Out of five, one component, we are getting lower life. So, we are doing some more trials. So that is the delay.
Harshil Solanki
Okay. Got it. And… hello?
Umesh Bhatt
Mr. Solanki, the firm purchase order we are having right now is around INR100 crores.
Harshil Solanki
Okay. And this has to be executed over what period?
Chetan Tamboli
The current quarter.
Harshil Solanki
Current quarter. Okay. And my next question, thank you for this. My next question is on the defense part. In opening comments, you mentioned that you have successfully delivered one component for the defense. So can you throw some light without naming of course, the product you can’t specify. But can you throw some more light on what is it exactly and how much opportunity is this for us?
Chetan Tamboli
Due to confidentiality reasons, I’m not in a position to say this. If you ever visit our facilities, we can show you those products, but I will not be able to give you a total picture on this concall, so very sorry for this.
Harshil Solanki
No issues. And anything on the tank tracks which we had developed, we have supplied five tracks? But any follow-up order?
Chetan Tamboli
All that has been done, we are now waiting for bulk orders.
Harshil Solanki
When can we expect that because that has been delayed since a long time. We haven’t got any new orders and such.
Chetan Tamboli
Everything is, you know, this is — we are working with Government of India, so very difficult to predict.
Harshil Solanki
Okay. Okay. And one question is on the aerospace thing. In the annual report, we have said we have the certification from a German agency for aerospace. So, are we looking to develop any new product in this space? Or how do we plan to leverage the certification that we have?
Chetan Tamboli
This certificate shows our capabilities and the facilities what we have. So, wherever we go, we show this and then we move forward.
Harshil Solanki
Okay. But no specific plans to get into aerospace at all?
Chetan Tamboli
No specific. We continue working with Government of India defense industry as of now. There are no plans to do any exports also. And only thing is with government, will have to keep — we have to wait, we don’t know.
Harshil Solanki
Okay, understood. And last question would be — what would be the volume for this quarter, tonnage?
Chetan Tamboli
Sorry.
Harshil Solanki
What would be the production volume in the tonnage terms for this quarter?
Chetan Tamboli
Umesh bhai, do you have any idea?
Umesh Bhatt
Yes, yes. So it is 2,900 tonnes.
Harshil Solanki
So, sir, roughly, if you see, it would amount to 5,000 tonnes in H1. So, are we on track to do 15,300 tonnes which we had guided in the September ’23 PPT, or is there any need for the revision?
Chetan Tamboli
No, there will be — it will be a slightly lower number than what we had shown in the September ’23.
Harshil Solanki
Okay. By how much percent any idea?
Chetan Tamboli
Umesh bhai, can you just give that number if you have, or if you don’t have, it’s all right.
Umesh Bhatt
Sir, it is about 12% to 15%.
Harshil Solanki
Okay, got it. This was it. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Khush Nahar from Electrum PMS. Please go ahead.
Khush Nahar
Hi sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question was sir, what time — do we plan to enter aluminum casting as a business as a strategy, or we are comfortable in the steel segment as we are in right now?
Chetan Tamboli
We are very comfortable in what we are doing, which is steel casting, and we have no plans to get into this aluminum.
Khush Nahar
Okay. And considering the industry dynamics, what kind of top line growth and EBITDA margins we are seeing in the next three years?
Chetan Tamboli
As we’ve always said in our all concalls that we aim for 22% EBITDA, and that’s what we want to do all the time, but end up getting — adding bit more. So, the planned EBITDA will be almost 22% plus, okay.
Khush Nahar
On the top line growth considering industry dynamics in the next three years, what kind of growth can we see?
Chetan Tamboli
From this year to next year, we should surely be 35% better, and maybe another 25% better in ’26, ’27.
Khush Nahar
So [Indecipherable] in FY ’27, is that what you’re saying?
Chetan Tamboli
Yes, yes. There is a possibility.
Khush Nahar
Okay sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our next question is from the line of Sahil Rohit Sanghvi from Monarch Networth Capital. Please go ahead.
Sahil Rohit Sanghvi
Yeah, good evening, sir, and also congratulations for maintaining the margins. My first question is the 2,900 volume number that you’ve given, is that the production number or the sales volume?
Umesh Bhatt
It is production number, sir.
Sahil Rohit Sanghvi
Would you be able to give the sales number — sales volume?
Umesh Bhatt
That might be around 3,000 tons maybe.
Sahil Rohit Sanghvi
And what would be the same number for 1Q FY ’25 the previous quarter?
Umesh Bhatt
Corresponding quarter or previous year, you are talking?
Sahil Rohit Sanghvi
No, no, no, same year 1Q FY ’25.
Umesh Bhatt
So you want production?
Sahil Rohit Sanghvi
No, no, sales volume, sales volume.
Chetan Tamboli
2,600 tons in Q1, 2,532 tons in Q2.
Sahil Rohit Sanghvi
Yes, yes. 2,600 tons in Q1 and 3,000 in Q2, right?
Chetan Tamboli
No, 2,532 tons in Q2.
Sahil Rohit Sanghvi
Okay. So yes, okay, this makes sense because then the realizations are largely maintained. Otherwise, I was getting a wrong number on the realization front. So the pricing trend is largely maintained. I mean is there a pressure due to the decline in the steel prices, any kind of pressure on that?
Chetan Tamboli
No, we have — as most of you already know, we have set pre-decided formula for the input prices. If the input prices go down, the sales price goes down. If input prices goes up automatically with the lag of one quarter, we get price increase. So all this pressure on steel prices, input costs are down, so we’ll pass on some reduction to them.
Sahil Rohit Sanghvi
Correct, sir. And sir, is it fair to say now that the destocking, which is happening largely on the customer front, you’re seeing that getting down now is it over now? Are you getting —
Chetan Tamboli
It’s only over and that’s why in my initial talk, that is why we are seeing — seeing uptrend from Q3 onwards. That is precisely the reason.
Sahil Rohit Sanghvi
Got it. Got it. And what would be the revenue contribution from American Rail Roads this quarter? Sorry, I joined a little late. I was — there was a lot of calls going on?
Chetan Tamboli
There is a delay in the volume picking up for railroad maybe by one or two quarters.
Sahil Rohit Sanghvi
Okay. Okay. But next year, next year, we should have revenues somewhere.
Chetan Tamboli
Absolutely.
Sahil Rohit Sanghvi
And next year would be what, 4%, 5% or lower than that — the revenue?
Chetan Tamboli
If everything goes well no, we should go around 7%, 7.5% next year.
Sahil Rohit Sanghvi
Okay. Thanks, sir. Thanks. That’s all from my side. Thanks and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our next question is from the line Ashwini Agarwal from Demeter Advisors LLP. Please go ahead.
Ashwini Agarwal
Good afternoon, Chetan bhai. Congratulations on maintaining margins in a very tough operating environment.
Chetan Tamboli
Yeah. Thank you.
Ashwini Agarwal
So a couple of questions, sir. One is this U.S. Railroad, you’re saying that one of the five components that you’re supposed to supply have a lower-than-expected life. So do you have a root cause insight and how you are going to fix that because without that root cause visibility will still be limited, right?
Chetan Tamboli
So that’s what I said that we are working on it. We have not yet been able to identify the root cause. So we’re trying to diagnose this. And we should be able to come up with an answer, maybe in coming three to four weeks, sir.
Ashwini Agarwal
Okay. And sir, any update on the ground engaging tools conversations that you’ve been having with one of the large existing customers?
Chetan Tamboli
It is — the business is trickling in a very small way, but we were trying to work out a very large volume with two of our large buyers, but the discussions are on. We’re not able to conclude anything so far.
Ashwini Agarwal
Okay. And the new capex that you were speaking about for fiscal ’26, this is a new site for roughly about 5,000 tons or am I right on that?
Chetan Tamboli
Yes. This will be a new site some 10 kilometers from our present site. We may do anywhere from 5,000 tons to 10,000 tons depending upon time. We will take this decision in 2026.
Ashwini Agarwal
Okay. And what would be the order of capex sir, total?
Chetan Tamboli
If we do about 10,000 tons, the number should be about INR80 crores.
Ashwini Agarwal
Okay. All right. And sir, when you said that you have firm purchase orders for INR100 crores for the current quarter. So I mean that’s — and do you have any visibility for the Jan to March quarter in your order book or these are all short cycle orders only?
Chetan Tamboli
That answer was — the firm orders in hand, but the general practice is people give two to three months’ orders and then they give us visibility for the coming forward 12 months.
Ashwini Agarwal
Okay. Sir, last question from my side, there is a margin conundrum, right? You always say that our desired margins are 22%, but you do much better than that, even in such a difficult quarter like September, you’ve delivered over 25% EBITDA margin. So what causes the margin to come out at 3% to 7%, 8% higher than what your desired margins are?
Chetan Tamboli
See, one is the — see, the factors are common, about four or five factors, okay? Which they keep shifting between quarter-to-quarter, and we’ve been lucky enough to get this. Like this quarter, there were benefits on exchange rate and input prices. And obviously, reasonably good internal cost controls also, but every quarter, we keep fluctuating within 4%, 5%, 6% different types of reasons for this.
Ashwini Agarwal
So Chetan bhai, would it be fair on my part to say, okay, forget about what happened in the next few quarters or next year. But let’s say, two, three years from now, when you are probably — in the shooting distance of INR900 crores to INR1,000 crores in revenue. At that point, I mean would it be reasonable for us to expect that as your revenue grows, you will definitely have more operating leverage available to you and your margins should be somewhere in the ballpark of 28% to 30%? Or is that too aggressive?
Chetan Tamboli
No, I think it will be too aggressive. I think on a long-term sustainable number should be around 25%.
Ashwini Agarwal
Okay. All right. Thank you, sir. All the best.
Chetan Tamboli
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Darshan Jhaveri from Crown Capital. Please go ahead.
Darshan Jhaveri
Hello. Good evening, sir. Firstly, congratulations on a great set of results, very commendable, sir, that you’ve been able to maintain margins, sir. Sir, just wanted to ask a bit in terms of revenue visibility like I think we said we have INR100 crores orders that we would execute in Q3. So what kind of like revenue can we see for Q3, Q4? Like, could we end the year at like INR100 crores, INR120 crores revenue?
Chetan Tamboli
The SEBI restricts us to give exact numbers and all, but we can say 20%-25% better sales than Q2 and maybe another 20%-25% better in Q4 compared to Q3, okay.
Darshan Jhaveri
So just wanted to clarify, sir, Q3 will be better than Q2 by 20% and Q4 will be better —
Chetan Tamboli
I think, I said 20%-25%. And again, yes.
Darshan Jhaveri
Okay. Okay. Fair enough, fair enough, sir. And just earlier, I think you said, in FY ’26, you could have around — was it correct 30%-35% growth in FY ’26?
Chetan Tamboli
No, I didn’t say that.
Darshan Jhaveri
So, okay. So what kind of top line could we see —
Chetan Tamboli
No, you’re only asking us for the coming two quarters, right?
Darshan Jhaveri
That I asked sir, that you clarified, sir. And I think previous question you were answered to somewhat for the three-year vision. So just wanted to clarify what —
Chetan Tamboli
As of now as we speak, we — we should go 20%-25% better in next financial year also.
Darshan Jhaveri
Okay. Fair enough, sir, yes. And sir, just wanted to know — my last question, sir, the capex by what time will we come up with? And what is the capacity utilization currently?
Chetan Tamboli
Currently, we are at about 45%, we are likely to go up to about 90% in FY ’26, ’27. So we’ll decide about capex in ’26.
Darshan Jhaveri
Okay. Fair enough sir. Yeah, that’s it from my side. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our next question is from line of Kiran B from Tabletree Capital. Please go ahead.
Kiran B
Thank you. Sir, just one question from my side. Sir, what gives us this confidence of a 25%, 30% growth or whatever that number is right, 20%, 25%, 30% for the next two, three years? I mean, the railroad order is only one order which can add to our revenues. But to go — we are at a fairly high base. So let’s say, we end this year with about INR350 crores, INR400 crores revenue from there, 25% is INR500 crores and there — from there 25% in INR650 crores.
So there’s a jump of INR100 crores, INR150 crores from here on for that kind of growth to come through. I don’t know if railroad business is going to give that kind of revenue year-on- year. So if you could just explain what gives us that confidence of adding that extra INR100 crores, INR150 crores every year for the next two years, at least, wherever you have visibility?
Chetan Tamboli
See, we are in constant new parts development and those are continuously going on. Second, the reason is the markets which are subdued now may also revise over the next six months to 24 months. So even if there is no railroad business, we should be still able to have growth in ’25-’26 and ’26-’27.
Kiran B
Got it. So this is basically inventory restocking, even aside from the railroad business, we are seeing inventory restocking from all the markets?
Chetan Tamboli
Restock, revival of demand, many factors plus new parts, which are there. We are consistently developing new parts. So we always have some additional sales.
Kiran B
Got it. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our next question is from the line of Harshil Solanki from Equitree Capital. Please go ahead.
Harshil Solanki
Hi, sir. Thank you for the call. I have two questions. One is recently your largest customer announced that they are investing some INR500 crores to increase plant in South India. So are we seeing some initial inquiries from them as to ramping up the volumes or anything on that front?
Chetan Tamboli
They have already told us to be prepared for better volumes in about two years’ time. And plus, we have a lot of inquiries on different parts, which they will need the new facility. So all that work is in progress.
Harshil Solanki
Okay. But that is like two year away thing for us and not something in the near to medium?
Chetan Tamboli
Yes, minimum two years away.
Harshil Solanki
Okay, understood. And one book-keeping question on the financial. Sir, our other financial assets have increased by INR13 crores. So what is it exactly about if you can highlight?
Chetan Tamboli
Mr. Sharma, can you respond, please?
Harshil Solanki
Hello?
Chetan Tamboli
Mr. Solanki, is this other financial assets? Is this INR72 Lakhs that you are talking about?
Harshil Solanki
No, if you take from March to September, there is a INR13 crores increase in the other financial asset line item. So if you can help us with what, there is an example.
Subhash Sharma
So this is other financial assets, March ’24, INR42 lakhs and then that INR81 lakhs that you are talking about?
Harshil Solanki
I don’t have the results exactly right now, but no issues, we can take this offline —
Subhash Sharma
Okay, thanks.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our next question is from Arnav Sachdev [Phonetic] from Cruze Investments. Please go ahead.
Arnav Sachdev
Hi sir. Just a couple of questions. Sir, you mentioned export degrowth is expected to reverse from Q3 FY ’25. So can you elaborate on this a little bit?
Chetan Tamboli
Please repeat your question.
Arnav Sachdev
You mentioned export is going to de-growth. It’s expected to reverse from Q3 FY ’25. Can you elaborate on this?
Chetan Tamboli
No, no. I said for the whole year, there will be a de-growth, nothing to do with exports de-growth.
Arnav Sachdev
Okay. And what are the other key milestones that you have planned for H2 FY ’25 to maintain this pace that we’re going at. Any other key milestones?
Chetan Tamboli
We don’t have any other key milestones to work for, but we want to do 20%-25% more in the third quarter and again, 20%-25% more in the fourth quarter, which is what we want to do for sure. And next year, too, we want to achieve about 25% growth. So all the work and efforts are going into this direction.
Arnav Sachdev
Okay. And just one last question. So any other strategies that we are going to use to maintain or maybe grow the domestic growth — our business in India.
Chetan Tamboli
See, at the macro level, we want to have 50% exports and 50% domestic market, so which we will continue, which may keep fluctuating 5% to 10% here or there, but by and large, we want to keep this mix.
Arnav Sachdev
Okay. All right. Thank you.
Chetan Tamboli
Yeah, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Rushabh [Phonetic] from RBSA Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Rushabh
So, we have mentioned in the previous con calls about the industry size being 5 lakh metric tons, including the rail roads. So I just want to understand, overall, how has been the growth overall in the industry last three to five years. Has it been flattish or there has been some growth?
Chetan Tamboli
I think the industry is growing moderately with 5% or 6% annual growth over the last three, four years.
Arnav Sachdev
And sir, we mentioned about this ground engaging tools. So is this market size of this included in this 5 lakh metric tons or this expands the market?
Chetan Tamboli
No, that’s another separate market. So we are working on it. We are talking to our two large customers as we want to get into this line. So once we have something from, we will probably put up a separate facility also.
Rushabh
Okay. And how are the conversations sir, can we know by the next six months to one year? How advanced stages are the discussions going on?
Chetan Tamboli
We should know something maybe after March, maybe.
Arnav Sachdev
Okay, thank you.
Chetan Tamboli
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in the interest of time, that was our last question for the day. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Chetan Tamboli
Thank you, everyone, for joining this call. We appreciate your participation. If you have any questions or queries, please feel free to reach out to us directly or through Orient Capital. We look forward to connecting with you again in the next quarter. Thank you.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks]