Spencers Retail Ltd (NSE: SPENCER) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 16, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Anuj Singh — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director
Pankaj Kedia — Vice President Investor Relations
Sandeep Banka — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Akhil Parekh — Analyst
Parikshit Gupta — Analyst
Ishani Kacholia — Analyst
Aradhna Jain — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Spencer Retail 4Q FY ’25 Post-Resil Earnings Conference Call hosted by Batriwal &arani Securities India Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please sign an operator by pressing star then zero on touchstone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr Rakhil Parik from and Karani Securities India Private Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Akhil Parekh — Analyst
Thank you. On behalf of B&K Securities, I welcome you all to the 4th-quarter FY ’25 conference call of Spencers Retail. We have with us Mr Singh, CEO and MD; and Mr Sandeep Banka, CFO; Mr Anand Kumar, Group Head, IR; and Mr Pankaj Kedia, Vice-President, Investor Relations. Without taking much time, I’ll hand over the call to Anuj sir for his opening remarks, post which we’ll open the floor for Q&A session. Over to you, sir.
Anuj Singh — Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director
Thank you. Thank you so much and good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the Spencers Retail Limited Q4 earnings call. I truly appreciate your participation and your time. What I’ll do is I’ll start with a brief commentary on both Q4 and FY ’25 and then open it up for Q&A. So starting with the commentary, look, it is going to be a — it is going to sound repetitive and boring, but it’s consistent. As we had talked about in the last two quarterly calls. In FY ’25, particularly in H2, we had embarked on an efficiency-led EBITDA transformation, specifically in Spencers that involved a strategic ramp-down exit from two regions, which is North and NCR, involving a closure of 47 stores. That was affected in-quarter two by the end-of-quarter two.
So we’ve now seen two quarters play-out post the execution of that. And I think the results have started flowing in and therefore, really the story of FY ’25 in some sense is a story of two halves, H1 and H2. But I’ll not get into H1, H2, I’ll give you a brief commentary on where we ended-up for the full-year. So ended-up the full-year at a top-line, both for at a consolidated level, shy of about INR2,000 crores, INR1,995 crores versus INR2,345 crores in the previous year, which was in FY ’24. So that’s about a 15% drop-in top-line, but that’s attributed to the closure of stores. If you look at it at a LFL level, like-for-like operating regions and Spencers, it was relatively flat and so was for nature’s basket, where there was no such exit from stores or regions which in NB.
At a — what it really helped us do was to really control our operating expenses and reduce our losses. So there was at a full-year level at FY ’25, at a consol level, we had a INR50 crore reduction in operating costs versus FY ’24. This was largely driven by Spencer. So Spencer’s operating expenses for the full-year were INR76 crores lower than the previous year, which was a combination of you know, I would say, costs avoided by store closures, but also a round of optimization of quite a significant optimization of overhead costs and support costs, which was done at the corporate office. Nature’s basket, the operating expenses went up in FY ’25 versus FY ’24, largely is in account of new-store openings.
So overall, I think what it helped deliver for the company was an EBITDA of INR60 crores for the full-year ’25 versus INR14 crores in FY ’24. So that is, you know, small, but I would say significant in terms of the trajectory. So you could say it’s a 400% increase in EBITDA, but going up from INR14 crores to INR60 crores. And that really reinforces our decision of really focusing on a few geographies as far as Pencers is concerned and driving efficiency. And I’ll come back to what our continued outlook is. But really for us, it has reset our base in terms of what geographies we operate in. It’s also helped us in terms of building the right support costs for a scale of business that the business is now.
And therefore, intrinsic operating KPIs have been improved. The ongoing focus is now how to drive growth and I’ll discuss about the growth drivers for both SRL and for NB. But overall for FY ’25, I think the EBITDA improvement was significant. Now this allowed us to narrow our PBT losses, which were INR266 crores in FY ’24 and they came down by INR20 crores in FY ’25. At a quarter-four level, look, quarter-four is always a little softer in the industry compared to quarter three. So we reported a sales of INR412 crores versus a number of INR547 crores for Q4 last year, but that Q4 last year included all operating regions of Spencers.
If you look at it from a LFL level, expenses quarter-four this year-over-quarter four last year was flat. Nature’s basket, we had some headwinds and I’m going to talk about nature’s basket separately. So we had headwinds in the Nature’s basket business in-quarter four. And again, we reported a minus 13% sales versus the previous year’s quarter-four. But like I said, quarter-four saw also a sharp reduction in our operating expenses, largely led by Spencers. So overall, INR30 crore reduction in operating costs. EBITDA for us at a consolidated level for quarter-four was breakeven, which was minus INR8 crores in-quarter four of last year. And the losses, the PBT was INR68 crores versus INR81 crores last year, quarter-four. So I think that’s the overall commentary.
Like I said, look, it’s a tale of two-parts, both H1, H2, but also Spencer and Nature’s basket. So I’ll talk about Spencers first and then I’ll come to Nature’s basket. As far as Spencers was concerned, and I’ll give the commentary now for the 12-month period because that’s — I think that captures everything which we’ve done in H1 and H2. So for Spencers, look, the whole ramp-down of the regions helped us to exit from high loss-making stores, operate in regions where we have a relatively competitive presence and our operating metresses are better than what they are in the regions where we decided to shut-down operations.
So revenue from operations for Spencers for FY ’25 was INR1,700 crores versus 2049 in FY ’24, which is a 17% decline. Margins were 80 basis-point down. But again, this is largely attributed to the drop-in margins, which happened in Q2 as a result of the liquidation when we were shutting down 47 stores, we had to do a judicious liquidation of inventory, which was there rather than carrying that inventory and bringing it to the other regions. So margins for Spencers were at 18.1%. The expenses, which I covered earlier the expenses were 76 crores lower in operating costs, which resulted in an EBITDA for Spencers for the full-year to be INR53 crores versus a breakeven last year.
So I think this EBITDA represents about 3.1% of sales and gives us the confidence that that’s the right trajectory for Spencers. What we also announced in-quarter three and in-quarter four beginning was that we had launched our remodel e-commerce proposition as a quick delivery proposition titled Jify. And really quarter-four was setting up the Jiffy business for scaling it up in the current fiscal. Our ambition for the current fiscal is to double the scale of the business. What we have achieved in-quarter four is impressive in terms of the traction. Currently, this Jiffy proposition, which is a 30 minute delivery proposition is there in Calcutta, where we have a large density of stores.
So out-of-the 42 stores which are there in Calcutta, 29 are equipped to handle e-commerce operations. We haven’t set-up an extensive network of dark stores because with this footprint of stores, we can service most of the pin codes in Calcutta at a 30 minute delivery frequency. The Q4, you know the — why the year-on-year Q4 of FY ’25 versus ’24, we saw 58% year-on-year user growth, which is close to 70,000 monthly transacting users. Our order growth have been in the order of 47%. So we do an average of about 1.8 lakh bills per month, the ambition is to quickly take it to 2 lakhs and then get to a number which is exit the year-by 3 lakh orders a month, which is approximately 10,000 orders a day.
Our sales are our AOV continue to be — they’ve come down a little bit, obviously because of the whole quick commerce number of bills go down, but still is at a very healthy AOV is 760, which if those of you who track quick commerce, that’s 1.5 times of what Typic commerce peers do. So on GP, we are consolidating our presence. We’ve launched an interesting campaign — ATL campaign to spread awareness. Our cost of acquisition of new customers is quite, I would say, you know, competitive given the fact that, A, we are targeting a lot of our offline customer-base and getting them to use Jify as a through the month top-up kind of a consumption option.
We have a campaign which is vernacular plus English. The stap line of Jiffy is Jobi Chao or. So it’s a 30 minute delivery proposition and we’ve seen good traction of it in Calcutta. We are extending this to Lucknow and Banaras, again on the premise that both — both cities have a good concentration of stores and therefore, we will — we will be able to service a large part of the city infrastructure with the store network, which we have. So as we speak in Lucknow, we have enabled e-commerce fulfillment from nine stores. We have a network of 18 stores in Lucknow. We have eight stores in, which will all eight will become e-commerce fulfillment points. So that’s the progress on Jiffy.
We’ve also tried and we piloted a dark store in a part of Calcutta where we felt that our store reach was not allowing it for us to deliver 30 within 30 minutes. That dark store is in an area called Calcutta and it came online in January. We are doing about 700 orders a day. And you know the whole fulfillment time is less than 25 minutes on that. And of course, that’s something which we will do. We are not — like I said, the plan is not to open dark stores, but to leverage our infrastructure of existing stores to do it. The plan next year is, of course, you know, the growth ambitions of SRL are, I would say strongly pinned on driving this proposition because that’s where the consumer behavior has evolved moving towards.
So we will make the right investments. The investments have been done last year and as far as the development of the tech stack is concerned, bringing onboard a team which will run this hole, whether it be the growth part of it, whether it be the analytics part of it or the operations part of it. So all of that is done and we are looking at doubling our top-line as far as Jiffy is concerned for the financial year ’26. So I think that’s a bit on Spencers. Now coming to Nature’s basket, look, and I’ll just end with the fact that Spencers today is operating has a base of total, we have about 89 stores, which are operational and we are looking at adding selectively a few more stores in the current fiscal. These stores will not be in new cities, but will be in the existing geographic clusters. So we’re looking at three to four stores in Calcuta.
We are looking at three to four stores in Lucknow and then one in one in Banaras and one in Ilabad and potentially one in. So I think that will be the plan as far as new-store additions are concerned. We’ve set, I would say, fairly high benchmarks for evaluating any investment recommendation for opening of the stores because we want all stores to be profitable in the first-six months because this whole experience — this whole journey which we’ve embarked upon of focusing on geographies and driving a store-level profitability, that’s something which we don’t want to slip by opening stores and then incurring losses in the new stores. So it is going to be a calibrated, careful concentrated expansion of stores as far as Pencers is concerned in FY ’26. Now coming to the nature’s basket, look, let me be upfront nature’s basket had some headwinds in the business last year.
So if you look at the full-year results, top-line was was almost flat. So we did INR294 crores versus INR296 crores last year. The number of stores is at 32, there were — we — while we opened a few stores, we also shut a few high loss-making stores. We believe that we are at the right level of stores given the fact that we are largely concentrated in two to three cities. Our largest presence is in Bombay, followed by Bangalore. And then we have Delhi, NCR region, we have three stores. Calcutta, we have three stores and in Pune, we have one store. And in Ahmedabad, we have one store. So nature’s basket was some internal challenges, we had availability issues.
As you know, a lot of the product assortment is imported stuff and we had some supply-chain issues in-quarter four linked to the availability of these products. And as a result of that availability, we saw a softer sales. A lot of our clientele comes in for this very differentiated imported premium offering. And in the absence of that, it fairly — the whole basket drops. That was one impact and that impact we saw both on-top line as well as margins getting impacted. Also, some of the stores which we had opened were not able to deliver the top-line as far as what the initial start-up period was there. It was slower-than-expected ramp-up, which also impacted. However, the team there has taken quick corrective actions. We have intensified our local area marketing activation.
In-quarter four, there was a membership program called Elysium, which was introduced and that has demonstrated strong traction amongst the users. As you know, this is a very, I would say, a very demanding, refined sophisticated clientele with a pretty high repeat and a fairly high average monthly spend. So this membership program is exactly designed to reward, repeat and to build loyalty. In the first three months of operation, we’ve we’ve had 4,300 odd members who enrolled. And really the goal is to drive 15,000 membership up to 15,000 members by the end of this fiscal and we expect about 25% of the overall revenues to be accounted for this set of loyal repeat customers who will be covered under the Elysium program.
And also the other thing which besides the membership program NBA has — Nature’s basket has also looked at the whole out of store, which is basically e-commerce plus the phone delivery channel for Nature’s basket. While it is a very strong premium experience-led shopping, but here and also we have witnessed that these consumers also want a convenient option of ordering on the app or on the phone. So there was a revamp or relaunch of the company’s mobile application. That did have an impact in-quarter four, but that’s fully executed now and going-live from — it’s gone live from April 1st. 1. So that is going to drive a lot of growth as well.
We expect about currently the share of the out-of-store business in nature’s basket is about 13% and we expect that to go up to 18% in the next year. Also, besides the membership and the e-commerce, the team is constantly looking at the product assortment with a complete, I would say, evaluation of the product portfolio from a point-of-view of optimizing sales and space efficiency. So while we carry a wide assortment, the width is there. We’re also looking at how this inventory performs, which are the best sellers, where do we get the highest, Jim Roy and Jim Roth and therefore really carry and buy an inventory which is — which has higher turns and therefore it helps us to manage working capital and be more efficient.
This we expect will also result in gross margins expansion. So on the slight depretion in gross margins, 90 basis-point depletion in gross margins, which we experienced in FY ’25. That is going to-be-built back and the team is quite confident of, you know, getting to levels which are going to be closer to the 30% mark as far as nature’s basket is concerned. Besides this, as we did in Spencers for FY ’24, we are also looking at areas where we can look at optimizing our operating costs as far as NBA is concerned. And therefore, we are looking at store operating expenditure being optimized. We are looking at corporate overhead costs, looking at some level of optimization there and looking at what kind of synergies we can have with the support organization, which is their expenses, whether it be in terms of finance, supply-chain, HR and obviously also in the supply-chain. So clearly, really the mandate is how do we drive top-line.
Our top-line and specifically from a sales per square-foot, we don’t give the numbers, but there is going to be a concerted effort using membership, using assortment strategy, looking at PD plus e-commerce to drive growth from existing stores. So unlike the last two years where we were looking at expansion in-stores, this year is about first driving higher-level of sales-through the same number of stores. We have 32 stores right now. There are two more stores which were shut last year for renovation, which will come on-board. So we will come back to 34 stores in this fiscal year very soon.
And we believe that we can drive turnover in the range of about INR320 crores for the next fiscal year and drive it with the existing number of stores with margins around 30% with operating costs, which will be lower and therefore the target getting to a level of store EBITDA, which a premium business like this should be generating an EBITDA, which should be in the level of about 8%. So that’s the planned for nature’s basket. So a lot of work on nature’s basket on driving both sales and optimizing costs. So if I were to kind of summarize FY ’25 and the outlook for FY ’26, FY ’25, clearly efficiency-led EBITDA transformation where some tough calls were taken were executed largely with respect to our operating costs on the Spencer side of the business on nature’s basket, it was whatever work had to be done on opening stores and renovation of a few stores.
But really the focus now is having achieved a certain level of, I would say, reset of the business and I think the focus for FY ’26 for both businesses is to drive top-line growth. We want to target mid-single-digit growth as far as Spencers and HS basket is concerned, driven by online in both parts of the business, but also driven by same-store growth in both businesses. And we will keep the operating costs at the same level as we have in Spencers and drive for optimization in nature’s basket.
And we are quite confident that having said the cost structures, now the single-minded focus for the business is to drive growth and that’s what we have geared up for FY ’26. So yes, overall, FY ’25, there has been an improvement in the EBITDA level, but I think going-forward, we need to drive further improvement and that is not going to come from cost optimization, but that is going to come from top-line addition, which will come through growth. So that’s the narrative for both FY ’25 and FY ’26. Yeah.
With that, I’ll take a pause and then open it up for questions.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] Now the first question is from the line of Parikshit Gupta from Fairvalue Capital. Please go ahead.
Parikshit Gupta
Thank you very much for the opportunity and for the presentation. My first question is on Nature’s basket actually. You mentioned that a couple of the EBITDA levels were negative because of two main reasons. One, there were supply-chain issues in the gourmet food as well as the second that the newly opened stores did not perform well. Can you please share a little more detail about these challenges with the newly opened stores? Is it footfall driven, ticket size driven or any color on it, please?
Anuj Singh
Yeah. So I think, look, it’s — for initial basket, the commentary was around the fact around, yes, there were some supply-chain disruptions in-quarter four. And on the new stores, which had opened in the year, the ramp-up which we had expected had not come through. And it’s a combination of two things. One is, of course, you know, we didn’t have the right availability of the assortment in a new area, plus a driving footfalls in an environment where people are going lesser and lesser to physical stores and doing an online. So it was a combination of both. I can’t break-out the number and say that where was the bigger impact because these are intertwined. If you don’t have the right level of availability at a given point of time, specifically for a new-store, then it does impact you know, people who come in for the first time and then people who come back. But I think this is something which is a problem which is I would say has been addressed, is solvable, it’s a largely internal operation issue and we will get there with that.
Parikshit Gupta
Yeah understood. This is helpful. Second question on the balance sheet, please. If I understand it correctly, the net-debt is around INR858 crores now. With leveraged balance sheet and I understand that a large portion of the long-term debt is also maturing in — maturing in this financial year. Can you hear me?
Anuj Singh
Sorry we are losing you.
Parikshit Gupta
I’m using my headset as well, is it better now?
Anuj Singh
Yeah.
Parikshit Gupta
Hello?
Anuj Singh
Yes, Parikshit, much better?
Parikshit Gupta
Okay. Yes. I just wanted to understand your comment — commentary on the balance sheet. It’s at a difficult level at this point as I would say. Can you talk a little bit about it and then I can please ask some follow-up questions.
Anuj Singh
Sorry, Parikshit, we again lost you in the second half. You said you had a question on the balance sheet, it’s at a — and then I lost you after.
Parikshit Gupta
The net-debt right now is at around INR860 crores, which limits the capability to further, you know take on debt in order to grow or for any other capex required. However, I do acknowledge the fact that you have mentioned that there are available lines of credit. But can you talk a little more about the balance sheet? How are you looking to deleverage that in the next couple of quarters with a large chunk of the long-term debt also maturing in FY’20?
Pankaj Kedia
Parikshit, this is Pankaj Kedia. See the debt position obviously remains high and we are aware of that. Last one year, we took a Board resolution to enabling resolution to raise some equity and we are constantly looking at the Board level exploring various options to raise equity. But the fact that the market capitalization is not supportive at the moment is something which has a bearing on our mind. Having said that, obviously, this is part of a large industrial house and the lines of credits are available, which is getting utilized. And as debts mature, obviously, we will be looking at refinancing them.
But at the same time, what we have been trying to do constantly in the last one year is set the house in order in terms of operating numbers. And Anuj took a lot of time in a detailed explanation of that part where whatever we did in this entire FY ’25 has resulted us into a significant loss reduction and the fact that today EBITDA margin from 0% is upward of 3%. We are looking at further expansion in our margin profile this financial year, which will be a combination of both the sales growth and cost optimization. And we believe that this will help us to get into a situation where we would be able to raise capital. When and how and the quantum of that, obviously you would understand would be difficult for us to define at this moment, but the entire team is working towards that side.
Parikshit Gupta
Okay. Understood. And just talking about the financial profitability, it includes a large chunk of it is because of the other income and most of it was because of the reversals of the store closure. This support likely won’t — this won’t be there in FY ’26. So are we confident about maintaining a profitability even on a financial metric?
Anuj Singh
Yes. So I think you spotted it right. I think the EBITDA gains were also because of other income. We don’t expect the same quantum of — of other income coming in, but please remember that this number includes the H1 where we had high loss-making stores. So we are quite confident that on both businesses for FY ’26, at an operational EBITDA level, which is your pre-INBS level, we will be able to get to profitable level. We will be able to get to a breakeven level, right? And I think that’s the pursuit. Your cost structures have been brought down. So yes, you will not see that large other income coming in, but your expenses and your margins have all been calibrated at that level where we will see a breakeven at the EBITDA level.
And I think that’s something which is — which is also linked to your previous question that anything which we need to execute in terms of a potential restructuring of the balance sheet will get accelerated the moment the business has delivered on the operational turnaround. Like I said, it’s not that we haven’t started the journey. We are two quarters into the journey. Last year, we had mentioned that it will take us between 12 to 18 months-to get to a truly breakeven at an EBITDA level, which is the pre-INDS level.
I think we’ve made — if you calculate the true operational EBITDA last year versus this year, there has been a INR50 crore improvement. We are still at an operational EBITDA level, we are still negative. This is the financial EBITDA. And we are quite confident that next year, both in Spencers and in nature’s basket, we’ll be able to breakeven at the operational EBITDA level. Once that happens, then it’s put simply, we are not losing money from operations at operations. Then it’s a question of your interest and your debt repayment and that I think is a strong signal to — for us to I would say, put into motion anything which we need to do from a capital restructuring point-of-view.
It will give a lot of confidence to internal and external stakeholders that the business is at an operational level not losing money. Yes, the large debt burden has to be serviced. But once we can consistently show over two or 3/4 that operational EBITDA is breakeven or positive, then I think that will be set into motion. If you recollect in-quarter three for Spencers, we were at an operational EBITDA level, which is NBSP were breakeven. So I think that is something which we will need to deliver over the next four quarters and that’s what the whole team has signed-up to and we will we will deliver that. And that’s not just on Spencer, but also on nature’s basket.
Parikshit Gupta
Yeah. Yeah. Understood. Just my final question, if I may. Are there any tentative plans on liquidating any part of the business in the next one or two quarters?
Anuj Singh
No, there are no plans to liquidate any part of the business. We have three parts of the business. We have the Spencers business, we have the Spencers Online, which is Jiffy and Nature’s Basket and all three are integral to our plans of driving top-line. I think whatever, I would say surgical reset we had to do for the high loss-making regions and the exits from one part of the business which is Spencer has been done. And the mandate to us and the management team is to now grow the top-line from this level on all three parts of the business.
Parikshit Gupta
Yeah. Understood. That’s all very helpful. Thank you very much for your answers. Good luck for the current quarter.
Anuj Singh
Yeah. Thank you.
Sandeep Banka
Hi, Parikshit. This is Sandeep Banka here. Am I audible? Yes. Yes, sir, you are. Just to add what Anuj has just said. In the other income, apart from the other income, there is a major chunk as a expensage also on account of the closing of stores.
Parikshit Gupta
Absolutely, yes, agreed.
Sandeep Banka
So this other income? So that is taken care. So the other income part, which is showing at the higher side, getting offset by majorly because of the closure store impact.
Parikshit Gupta
Yes, sir. That’s understood. Thank you.
Sandeep Banka
This is a true performance actually if you be more specific.
Parikshit Gupta
Okay, yes, thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Ishani Kacholia from NV Alpha Cap Fund
Managemen. Please go ahead.
Ishani Kacholia
Hi. I wanted to ask the — that by when do you expect that your — by when do you expect your — to turn a profit not just at the EBITDA level, but like when — in how many years do you expect that Nature’s basket will be able to generate a profit on the NPAT level?
Anuj Singh
Your question is only for Nature’s basket or is it at a consolidated level or is it both?
Ishani Kacholia
And on a consolidated level?
Anuj Singh
Look, I can’t give you a concrete timeline saying in X number of months, both will come. I think what I can give you is, we’ll break this up into parts. I think this is a journey which has to have a well-defined intermediate timeline. And the first timeline for us as a management is that by the end of FY ’26, if at an EBITDA level, both businesses will breakeven. Then it’s a question of how we look at recapitalizing, restructuring our debt to get to a level of PBT breakeven at the consol level. So I would not hazard a guess right now. I think the first — and anything which I say would also, you know, it’s — it’s just a statement.
I think what we need to do and demonstrate and reach the first step of the journey is to be at an EBITDA level breakeven on both businesses. And that we believe is a four-quarter journey and we will be able to breakeven at an operational EBITDA level by the end of FY ’26. That’s the — that’s a very, I would say that’s the best outlook I can give you which is in a realistic time-frame. I think post that will set into motion a lot of other things, which will be able to — where we will be able to comment on the timeframe to get to truly at a PBT level of breakeven.
Ishani Kacholia
Yeah. Fair enough. Thanks.
Anuj Singh
And just to understand — and just to understand the magnitude, I mean, if we were to kind of breakeven at an operational EBITDA level, the PBT levels will come down to INR100 crores of loss from a current of INR200 crores. So I think know what I can tell you is that in 12 to 15 months from now, we can be looking at an EBITDA breakeven and at a PBT losses coming down to half of the current level.
Ishani Kacholia
Thank you.
Anuj Singh
Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aradhna Jain from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Aradhna Jain
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. A couple of questions. First on Jiffy. Could you throw some light on how does the inventory for Jiffy work vis-a-vis, say, any other player in the market who is into the quick commerce business? And I understand that you’re not opening any dark stores and you’re doing through our existing stores. But how does the inventory work? And going-forward, do we expect the inventory to go up from the current levels because of? That would be my first question..
Anuj Singh
Yeah. So should I answer the first question or you want to all your questions.
Aradhna Jain
Yes, please.
Anuj Singh
Okay. So look, good question. The way the inventory management for GC happens is because it’s the fulfillment is happening from the stores, there is no separate inventory being carried for. It is the store inventory, which gets reflected on the app. And so if I’m sitting here and looking at my app, it picks up the store inventory from the nearest store within my geolocation and that inventory gets affected and then I place an order in there. So there is no separate inventory in that.
Now, the risk which you could run is that if you could have — let’s say you have five pieces of a particular SKU and while I’m placing an order for four, there is a customer who walks into the store and at that same point of time buys those five units, then it will result in an order drop. But again, that’s something which we are refining two-ways. Number-one, we are defining a safety stock. So if there is anything which is less than two pieces, three pieces in the store, it will not reflect on the app. So you keep that buffer.
And number two, you do a not real-time, but mere real-time updation of store inventory. So the moment, let’s say an item gets billed at the store from the pause that update hits the e-commerce inventory dump and therefore that inventory reduces. So I think that’s how we are managing it as far as store operations because there is no other way to do it. This is a common inventory, the store inventory will get exposed.
What we are doing is for the dark store, yes, the dark store will have a separate thing. But like I said, we are not currently opening too many dark stores, we just have one dark store. And for that dark store, the inventory is managed just like we have a distribution center for our stores. We have a — within the same distribution center, which services the stores, there is a separate holding area for the Jiffy and dark store.
So that’s how the inventory management is happening. And I think so-far, you know that’s working well. It’s not that we have 100% in-full as far as the order is concerned. We do have order drops, but like I explained to you that order drop is more that 0.01% probability that you have five units and when I’m placing that order at the same time, some customer walks in and buys five units from the store. So it’s I think something which is now which is manageable and that’s the way we intend to manage the inventory. Yeah. I hope I’ve answered that question.
Aradhna Jain
Yes. And what would be the fill rate for Jiffy currently in?
Anuj Singh
That’s right.So again, the fill rate is in excess of 90%.
Aradhna Jain
Okay. And so this is the first-quarter — like 4th-quarter would have been the first-quarter where we would have basically launched Jiffy, right?
Anuj Singh
That’s right.
Aradhna Jain
So any — any sense on what sort of revenue we would have made on GIFC? And for FY ’26, any guidance on how much revenue expectation you have from this particular segment?
Anuj Singh
Yeah. So like I mentioned in my thing in-quarter four, if I compare quarter-four of FY ’25 to ’24, we saw 58% of growth as far as your unique monthly users are concerned. Our order, which is the number of bills increased by 45%. So we do — like I mentioned, we do about 1.7 lakh orders a month, which is you’re talking about 6,000 orders a day. And our AOV is INR760 rupees is the bill value or the order value. The ambition is to double the size of the business of what we did in FY ’25 and that would mean we get to a level of close to 3 lakh orders a month, which is 10,000 orders a day at an AOV of about 750. So you can do the math. We’re talking about an exit of around INR25 — I mean, doing a level of about INR25 crores a month.
Aradhna Jain
Yeah, that’s the. Got it. Also currently 85% of our business top-line comes from sensors and the rec is from NBL. So in the near-future, do we see this mix to change given that we are also going to be in the online space. So any change in the mix that we expect going-forward?
Anuj Singh
The mix change between NB and sensors or within NB, the mix between offline and online?
Aradhna Jain
Actually all. Basically after JC coming in, how much are we expecting the online portion of business plus the offline and within the two formats that we have. Y
Anuj Singh
Eah. So I’ll give you — I won’t give you exact numbers, I’ll give you directional broad numbers. The intent is for both businesses for the online part to be closer to 20% of the overall business mix. Currently, we are at 13% to 14%, both in nature’s basket as well as in sensors. So the idea is that we get to a level which is 80% offline, 20% online. Yeah. As far as between Spencers and nature’s basket, what’s the kind of growth outlook? I think both are going for growth and we look like I said, the number which I had given you was mid-single-digit growth is in both parts of the business. Yeah. So the overall mix or I would say mix contribution between Spencers and NV would not change much. But in both businesses, the online mix will go up from the current 13% to 14% to 20%.
Aradhna Jain
Okay. Got it, sir. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Bharat from Fair Value Capital. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Couple of questions from my end.
Anuj Singh
First, Mr Bharat, may we request you to speak a bit louder. We cannot hear you, sir.
Unidentified Participant
Am I audible now?
Anuj Singh
Yes, please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. So sir, a couple of questions. So first, when we look at, so though you are new to this business as such in a way. But do we see that there are some market-share gains which have been taken by the e-com players in our expenses or in our niches market segment — nature’s basket segment primarily driven by the fact that the same sales — same-store sales growth has been remaining to be nearly around flat. So can you specify on that?
Anuj Singh
Sorry, I didn’t get the exact question.
Unidentified Participant
I’m just asking with regard to the market-share gains. Primarily, have there been some sort of impact because of the quick commerce play which — which have taken near about market-share from us because the — if I look at the single or the same-store sales growth, that remains to be flat.
Anuj Singh
Yeah. So I think, look, it’s a fairly obvious answer. As the quick commerce penetration usage has gone up, it has resulted in an overall, I would say, channel share shift between, let’s say, modern trade, Kirana and quick commerce. So we operate in the modern trade format. And if you look at the industry reports and which is what we are also seeing in our part of the business, quick commerce is gaining at the expense of both and modern trade.
So yes, I mean, if we see lack of growth, that’s because consumers are adopting quick commerce and which is also the reason why we are not being oblivious to that and we have refined our earlier slotted delivery proposition to a quick commerce kind of a delivery proposition by launching JP. So yeah, clearly, there is a, I would say a channel pair shift which has happened where QuickCommerce has gained share from both modern trade and Kirana and none of the players in Kiranhas or modern trade have escaped this trend and both have lost shares.
Unidentified Participant
Right. But sir, for us because they have the balance sheet power with them with respect to funding or even doing out the cash burn. But with respect to us, I think we are already in a vicious cycle of debt. So I’m not sure how much promotion can we do with respect to? But in a way, it is impacting our current nature of business, right? So what’s the thought process behind it and how the company looks out on different prospects right now with respect to debt being an overhang for us we have to rely further on equity raise before. So what was the thought process behind the current nature of the business actually?
Anuj Singh
Yeah. So I think, look, you’re right. I mean, we don’t have the same luxury of, you know, a large capital — private capital available to be spent in terms of building the businesses. But having said that, we are also not going for a complete pivot where we are saying that you will drive a $1 billion, $2 billion GMV. We are not saying that we will pivot from being a brick-and-mortar to being only online.
Our expansion of our proposition is to offer our existing customers a — an online option so that they remain within the Spencer Natures basket ecosystem. So our cost of acquisitions will be lower. The scale which we are operating will be lower. We are not — let me not use the word burn, but we are not investing a huge amount just to buy growth. I think this is where the difference is. And therefore, if you look at the numbers, I mean a INR300 crore aspiration for quick commerce for Spencers in an overall context of where things going is less than our fair share.
And we believe the reason why we want to keep it at that level is because anything higher than that, can we do INR1,000 crores in a year-on quick commerce in, let’s say, just in East India, absolutely. But that would call for a substantial investment. And you’re absolutely right. Today, our balance sheet does not allow us to — if I may use the word burn that kind of money. So we will not do that. We will do this in a calibrated manner.
So yes, our approach is very different. We are not going for top-line vanity, but we are doing it as a genuine proposition to our customers to give them a quick convenient option because what we’ve seen is that consumers do come in at the beginning of the month, they do their monthly buying still. Maybe the basket size has gone down a little. Consumers would earlier buy for three to four times in a month-on grocery. Now maybe they’re buying 10 times in a month. They buy-in the beginning of the month slightly higher items and our value, but then they do a lot more top-up missions happen during the month and a lot more of these top-up missions are happening on quick commerce.
So we are becoming — as consumers, we are becoming more unplanned, more instant gratification. And therefore, our proposition also has to offer that. We can’t just be banking on this. So we are — we are looking at building our online proposition. But again, it is not to pivot into today if it is 90-10, we don’t want it to be 50-50. You know, we want this to be done in a manner which plays to our our financials as well as to our business model. We are not investing in dark stores and opening 500 dark stores.
We are leveraging our network. So it’s a very different approach from a business model and a scale ambition, but very similar in terms of what we want to offer our consumers. So we want to give the same convenience. So if you go to our app today, it’s the same look, feel, seamless selection, discovery, checkout process, delivery within 30 minutes. So all of that is what the consumer has become used to, but we are not going to chase growth at the cost of burning a hole in our P&L. So I hope I’ve answered your question.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. So last question with regard to the guidance. So I think you mentioned in — qualified that you are looking at nearly about INR320 odd crores with respect to nature’s basket. Can you confirm with respect to the profitability across nature’s basket and with respect to also?
Anuj Singh
Yes, we don’t give an exact number, but like I think I mentioned it that from an operational EBITDA, which is three INDS, both businesses we want to break-in. Yeah. That’s the guidance.
Unidentified Participant
Right that’s it from my side.
Anuj Singh
Thank you. any other questions thank you. So do we end the call now?
Operator
Yes. This was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management.
Anuj Singh
Yeah. Thank you very much everyone for joining in and listening to our commentary. And again, just want to sign-off by reinforcing the fact that we are two quarters into our efficiency-led EBITDA transformation journey and we will — the next four quarters will be sustaining this efficiency-led transformation and adding on growth. So it’s going to be a combination of scale plus efficiency across both nature’s basket and Spencers across both the offline as well as the online verticals in both the businesses.
And the endeavor is to move towards a situation where in four quarters from now, we can be truly operational EBITDA-positive, which then sets the stage for us to attack the next milestone, which is how do we look at a PGP turnaround. But the next four quarters are focused in terms of driving scale, growth while sustaining the same efficiency levels to get to operation EBITDA. So thank you for your interest. Keep watching this space and we’ll be in touch. Thank you.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks].