Solar Industries India Ltd (NSE: SOLARINDS) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Feb. 06, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Chirag Muchhala — Analyst
Aanchal Kewlani — Senior Finance Manager and Investor Relations Manager
Manish Nuwal — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer
Moneesh Agrawal — Joint Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Amit Dixit — Analyst
Ravi Naredi — Analyst
Dipen Vakil — Analyst
Narendra Khuthia — Analyst
Sanjaya Satapathy — Analyst
Ankur Sharma — Analyst
Rakesh Roy — Analyst
Pratik Mukasdar — Analyst
Bharat Shah — Analyst
Yash Gandhi — Analyst
Alisha Mahawla — Analyst
Nishant Chowhan — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Solar Industries India Limited Q3 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Centrum Broking Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing the star and zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr Chirag Muchhala from Centrum Broking Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Chirag Muchhala — Analyst
Yeah. Thank you, Steel, and good morning to all of you, and welcome to Solar Industries India’s Q3 FY ’25 Results Conference Call. From the management we have today, Mr Manish Nuwal, MD and CEO; Mr Suresh Menon, ED; Mr Milind Deshmukh, ED; Mr Moneesh Agrawal, Joint CFO; Ms Shalinee Mandhana, Joint CFO; and Ms Aanchal Kewlani, Senior Finance Manager. So now I hand over to the management for their opening remarks and post that we can take questions from participants. Over to you.
Aanchal Kewlani — Senior Finance Manager and Investor Relations Manager
Thank you. Thank you so much, Chirag. A very good morning to our dear stakeholders and well-wishers. My name is Achil, and I would like to welcome you all to the Solar Industries Third Quarter and nine monthly conference call of FY ’25. New Year has brought pleasant surprises for us and well wish us. We break all our quarterly records on revenue, EBITDA and PAT. This call is recording, including the transcript will be available on the site. The financial statements, quarterly factories, investor presentations, press releases are also available on our website. To begin with, I would like to remind you that during this call, we might make projections or other forward-looking statements regarding future events and about the future financial performance. Please remember that such statements are only predictions. Actual events or results may differ materially and our websites will be updated with all relevant information timely. Now I would request Solar’s CEO and MG, Mr Manish for his opening remarks on the company’s performance, followed by Q&A. Over to you, sir
Manish Nuwal — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer
A very good morning to one and all. I’m Manish Nuwal, Managing Director and CEO. Welcomes you all to Solar Industries quarterly earnings conference Call. Thank you for joining us today. To start with, I am delighted to announce that we have registered strongest quarter yet with growth in revenue by 38%. Our Q3 performance reflects the successful execution of our strategic initiatives, propelling our net revenue from INR1,429 crores to INR1973 crores year-on-year basis. This impressive search is attributed to the efforts by our solar team in explosives and defense sector. Our international business has delivered a very positive 3rd-quarter performance, which has grown by 21% year-on-year basis and have reached the best-ever INR758 crores in revenue terms. Solar’s defense business quarterly performance has picked-up as we have discussed in the previous quarterly calls. The growth is around 578%, which is the highest-ever quarterly defense revenue in solar history. Now it is at INR409 crores. While domestic demand has been subdued due to the general and state elections in many parts of the country and we have observed a very heavy monsoon season in this year, which has resulted into some kind of subdued demand in the mining sector. But our long-term growth trajectory remains robust, driven by our strategic diversifications. The government’s active promotion of private sector participation driven by the Arthma Mir Bar initiative is fueling modernization and innovation. Solar Industries, recognizing the potential of this sector early-on, strategically made huge investments in-building its defense capabilities, securing an early-mover advantage. On this backdrop, company have signed an MOU, the Government of Maharashtra for investing INR12,700 crores in next 10 years to establish an anchor mega project in the state of Maharashtra. The node from Cabinet Committee on Security for a particular or a percurement be with solar industries to supply Pinaka enhanced rockets and area denial rockets to the armed forces will drive the revenue growth, open new possibilities and further establish solar industry’s prominence in the Indian defense sector. We have already made our presence felt in the global defense market also. With a clear vision and a strong foundation, we are confident in our ability to deliver enduring value for our beloved stakeholders. Thank you for participating in today’s earnings call. Now I will request Aanchal to share the detailed financial numbers. Thank you.
Aanchal Kewlani — Senior Finance Manager and Investor Relations Manager
Thank you so much, sir. Thank you for the detailed and deep insight. We will now begin with the quarterly financial update followed by the Nine-Month update. Highlights for the quarter were, we have achieved the highest-ever quarterly revenue at INR973 crores, up by 38%, highest-ever quarterly EBITDA at INR536 crores, up by 46% and PAT at INR338 crores, up by 52%. Highest-ever defense revenue in the quarter recorded at INR400 crores plus, highest-ever order book in the quarter, that is around INR7,100 crores plus. Now let’s quickly review the quarter in detail. The top-line grew by 38% from INR1,429 crores to INR1973 crores. Coming to the cost, the raw-material consumption is almost same from 52.59% to INR52.15. In absolute terms, the material consumption cost is INR1029 crores versus INR752 crores in the same quarter previous year. Employee cost is around INR151 crore versus INR11 crores. Other expenses cost us INR67 crores versus INR210 crores. The interest cost is approximately INR31 crores versus INR28 crores. And depreciation cost is approx47 crores versus INR39 crores. Coming to the customers basket, revenue from CIL was INR259 crores against INR35 crores. Revenue from non-CIL institutional was INR278 crores versus INR245 crores, up by 13%. Revenue from housing and infra is INR257 crores versus INR251. Export and overseas revenue is INR758 crores versus INR624 crores, which was highest in the 3rd-quarter. Defense revenue was quarterly highest till-date at INR409 crores versus INR61 crores, up by massive by 70%. Coming to the highlights for nine months, we registered revenues to the tune of INR5,374 crores versus INR4,459 crores, up by 21%, highest Nine-Month EBITDA at INR1,485 crores versus INR1,042 crores, up by 43%; highest Nine-Month PAT at INR942 crores versus INR633 crores, up by 49%. Now we would be happy to take any questions, comments or suggestions that you may have. Over to you.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star N2. All participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities. Please go-ahead. MR. Amit, your line has been unmuted. Please go-ahead with your question.
Amit Dixit
Yeah. Hi, good morning, everyone. And congratulations for a good performance, sir. I have couple of questions. The first one is on evolution side.
Operator
I’m sorry to interrupt. MR. Amit, your voice is breaking a little bit. Can you use your handset?
Amit Dixit
Yeah, I’m using my handset.
Operator
Can you go again, please?
Amit Dixit
Yeah. Is it better now? Hello.
Operator
Yes, yes. Please go-ahead.
Amit Dixit
Yeah. So my first question is on the issue side, if you look — if you look at the export orders that we have received over the recent past, particularly the one — the last one that we received is of like INR2,000 crores. So just wanted to get sense on the termination export market, how do you see it panning out over next 12 to 15 months? Are do we seeing more opportunities over there? And is it possible to just know which category where we are seeing energy explosive or Panaka for instance or something else that we might be getting in? That is my first question.
Manish Nuwal
If you have seen that what we are working in different sectors on a variety of products, one of them was high-energy materials for which we have received lot of orders from the international markets and which we have shared with all the stakeholders whenever we are getting such kind of significant orders. But as far as the orders from Indian defense market is concerned, we were waiting for the Finaka orders to come in, which is one — which is the biggest orders for the history of. So like CCS has cleared the procurement of these products and we should be able to sign it at any moment. So let us wait for that. And as of now, the total order book of defense is INR4,971 crores. And once Minaka comes in, it will be around, say, INR6,000 crores approximate number. And if you add these two, then the total order book will be INR11,000 crore-plus, which will happen very soon. So if you summarize that the facilities which we have established for the whole defense spectrum is being properly utilized in the coming periods. So like high-energy materials, we have started — started giving results., we have started, we are supplying to. We are supplying to many PS defense object sector enterprises and we have participated in many development programs on the basis of which like we are getting orders for kind of rockets and we are also participating in many other rocket programs. So once those start getting developed or anything materialize happen, we will definitely share with our stakeholders.
Amit Dixit
Wonderful, sir. Properly. It was a new that is being gifted and Army actually it. So when these — and with what stage we are in, when we can see hospital ordering or some more development on this front.
Manish Nuwal
As far as-is concerned, it is one of the product range for which we were working. It falls under the lightering ammunitions. So initially, we developed the ammunition, which is like a social, which can work as a mode, which we have received orders and supply also. We were the first company in India which has developed this product on its home without having any kind of foreign knowledge or foreign supply of the critical complement. It was almost — almost 100% source in India, which was practically our ratio of domestic content was plus 80%. And in the same line, we have started development on the anti-drone systems, which will be a hard kill and we may have a soft kill also in the future. So the recent trial which has happened at the which had — which has — we have seen that the results were quite encouraging. So this product we are developing on our own and within two years of development, we have reached to this stage. So based on these trials, we will definitely are likely to get some kind of positive traction from the End-User because the whole knowledge and development is within India. So this will help the security courses a lot from strategicizing. So we may see that in a two year’s time, we should be able to start commercialization of this.
Amit Dixit
Wonderful, sir. One bookkeeping question, if I may. What was the cash-flow from operations in nine months and capex so-far in nine months?
Manish Nuwal
Can we share it later?
Amit Dixit
Yes, sir, sure. That helps. Thank you so much and all the best, sir.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Amit Zade from Aegis Federal Life Insurance. Please go-ahead. MR. Amit, your line has been unmuted. Please go-ahead. MR. Amit Zade, your line has been unmuted. As there is no response from the current participant, we’ll move on to the next. It’s from the line of Ravi Naredi from Naredi Investments. Please go-ahead.
Ravi Naredi
First of all, Manish, thank you very much for nice result you have delivered again. Sir, company has signed with Government of Maharashtra for investing INR12,700 crore in next 10-year to establish an anchor mega project. Please say more few words about this project and how the company will arrange the funding
Manish Nuwal
The recent signing of MOU with the government of Maharashtra is in-line with our strategic initiative to have a strong defense product portfolio in our company’s baskets. So it is in-line with that. We have signed this MOU with the government of Maharashtra. And this is a tentative plan that we should be able to deliver or execute these projects in next 10 years, but we are confident that we should be able to do all these investments in next seven to eight years’ time. And if you look at the current profitability of the company, which if you take the nine months figure and if you convert it into 12-month figure, the yearly profit-after-tax is around INR1,250 crores to INR1,300 crores. And as we are going-forward, the profit-after-tax will also keep increasing because of the many — because of the orders which are — which we are going to receive, plus the international subsidiaries which are going to enhance their business. And in India also, we are expanding a lot. So if you plug all these three, the healthy cash profit will keep generating to sustain all these investments. And please go-ahead, sir.
Ravi Naredi
Exactly what is the project this one.
Manish Nuwal
Project is basically to set-up the facility for manufacturing of defense products for the security forces.
Ravi Naredi
Okay, okay. And it is only for Maharashtra government or it will be for pan-India working.
Manish Nuwal
Defense, it is only the government of, government of.
Ravi Naredi
Sir, thank you very much. It up. Yes, sir.
Manish Nuwal
Thank you.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Dipen Vakil from PhillipCapital. Please go-ahead.
Dipen Vakil
Thank you for the opportunity, sir, and congratulations on a great set of numbers. Sir, first is your defense growth has been phenomenal for this quarter and we earlier had guided for a revenue top-line of close to around 20% contributing from defense and that was something around close to around INR1,500 crores. So any revision on that guidance that you would like to present?
Aanchal Kewlani
So yeah, annual guidance we had given around INR1,500 crores. And for the nine months, we have reached on INR975 crores. So we feel that the annual guidance is sustainable. There may be some 5%, 10% plus, minus in the same, but we are sure of reaching the guidance.
Dipen Vakil
Got it. Sir, my next question is in the line of, sir, our core explosive business, so this quarter has been largely flattish when we look at the domestic explosives number. So when do you expect the market scenario to change going — when do we expect the pickup in execution to start coming in even in the explosive segment?
Aanchal Kewlani
Yeah. The volume in first-half of the year had been good. We had around 12% growth in the volumes of exclusive. However, we have observed that due to subdued demand due to above-normal monsoon and general and state elections overwide in the country, a slower mining activity has been there, which has impacted the volume in-quarter three. As we go-ahead, we’ve observed demand picking-up from Jan ’25, which should help in get the volume from now onwards.
Dipen Vakil
Got it, got it. And any more order in pipeline in the defense sector which are there in near-to-medium term?
Aanchal Kewlani
Finaka, so as the management has spoken, we already had the CCS confirmation and we should be signing the order. Once that comes, we will be announcing.
Dipen Vakil
Got it, got it. So sir, execution timeline for the INR7,70 — so INR7,900 crore of order, what would be the execution timeline for INR7,900 crores? And once is confirmed, what would be the execution timeline for those INR6,000 odd crores of Pinaka
Aanchal Kewlani
So there are few orders in that. So every order has different timelines so it may range around eight to 12 years.
Dipen Vakil
Eight to 12 years in Spina car. So the other decision also eight to 10 years
Aanchal Kewlani
Yes. And for we are speaking about for rest of the orders, I think it’s three to four years.
Dipen Vakil
Okay, okay, okay. Got it, got it, got it. Got it. Thank you so much for answering my questions and all the best.
Aanchal Kewlani
Thank you.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Narendra from RoboCapital. Please go-ahead.
Narendra Khuthia
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, my first question is regarding our overall guidance that we had of 30%, if I’m not wrong, top-line growth. So given that we are on the cusp of signing the MOUs for the orders. Do we see — do we see any upward revision in the guidance?
Manish Nuwal
So like we’ve given guidance that in this year, the revenue growth should be around 30%. But like we have said, because of some slowdown in the domestic market, there is a reduction in volume growth and that is impacting the revenue growth also. But if you remove the domestic part in all other sections, we are doing very good, including the different section. As far as the revenue guideline is concerned, definitely we are falling short of 30%. But initially the EBITDA margin and the PAT margins, which we have said that in this year, we should do better than the last year. But we are doing even better than what we have given the guidance at the start of the year. So if you take both the things together, the revenue is not increasing to that level, which we have expected, but profit or EBITDA margin are reaching to even a better level than what we have shared at the start of the year.
Narendra Khuthia
Yes, I understand. I actually wanted to know two, three years down the line, do we continue to expect a 30% kind of CAGR year-on-year for the next two, three years, given that we have such a big order coming in? And also on the margin front as well, we have been continuously doing better than what we have guided. So could we see this 26% 27% kind of margin sustaining going ahead as well?
Manish Nuwal
So I cannot predict for next three years and normally as a practice, we give guidance at the start of the year. But yes, because of the increase in defense sales, which we are lagging in last many years and increase in international operations, we see that these margins we should be able to maintain around,
Narendra Khuthia
Okay. Okay, great, sir. Thank you so much and all the best.
Manish Nuwal
As you are aware that business sentiments and business dynamics keeps changing. So these are our ambition to reach or achieve even better, but sometime 2%, 3% plus-minus is not a big thing for our kind of industry.
Narendra Khuthia
Yeah, yeah, I understand. That’s why I ask for a longer-term view, right? Thank you so much. Yeah.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Sanjaya from Ampersand Capital. Please go-ahead.
Sanjaya Satapathy
Hi, sir. Sir, two questions. First of all, this margin improvement that you have seen again in this quarter, do you see further upside to it or it is sustainable?
Manish Nuwal
We cannot commit whether there will be improvement or sustainable at this moment. But like I just answered that if you look at the increase in defense sales, better realizations of facilities in the international market and upcoming new facilities in the domestic market, we should be able to do in a similar levels of margins. So like I said, business dynamics can keep changing, which we have seen in last many years. So this is our guideline, but we cannot commit that this we will achieve on every quarter and we will improve it further on every quarter basis.
Sanjaya Satapathy
Understood. Sir. You have seen some good order inflow in this quarter. Can you just give us some color on what were the key driver of this order inflow? I mean, which all segments were the key contributor?
Manish Nuwal
So we have already shared that order
Sanjaya Satapathy
Inflow mix I’m talking about
Manish Nuwal
Yes, we have already shared the orders because whenever we are getting any material orders we are sharing with all the stakeholders, if you just go to the — all the — our declarations to the exchanges, you can see all those numbers.
Sanjaya Satapathy
Okay. And last thing, sir, you mentioned that you may fall short of your guidance of 30% growth and somewhat. But are you seeing improvement again in domestic market and in from January onwards?
Manish Nuwal
Yes, it is much better than the previous last four, six months.
Sanjaya Satapathy
Thank you, sir.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Ankur from HDFC Life. Please go-ahead.
Ankur Sharma
Yeah, hi, sir. Good morning. Thanks as always for your time. Just on the same question on the domestic volume growth, what would be your guidance for FY ’25 and where do you think you will end-up in on domestic volume growth?
Manish Nuwal
So we expect that you insured 15% guidance which we have given at the start of the year, we should do around 8% to 10%. Okay. Okay, fair. That’s helpful. And also, you know, any outlook on ammonium nitrate prices, they seem to be kind of settling down and getting better. So how do you see that kind of playing out? No, the ammonium nitrate prices, which are correctly ruling are the sustainable numbers. So there can be plus/minus of 5% not more than that. And I don’t foresee any increase in ammonium nitric prices going-forward.
Ankur Sharma
Okay. So largely stable is our policy, okay. Okay.
Manish Nuwal
So our — like I said, plus-minus 5%.
Ankur Sharma
Sure. Okay. Okay, fair. And sir, just on your export and your overseas business, clearly, we’ve seen this very strong growth last two quarters. So if you could help us what geographies or what was really happening there, what is driving this growth how do you see this going-forward as well?
Manish Nuwal
So like we mentioned that the sales from our international business has grown-up quite significantly. On a nine-month basis, it is almost INR2136 crores compared to INR1,869 crores. So which is a quite big number, 14% increase. And in the last quarter, which is Q3, the increase was up 21%. So we think that this momentum should be going up in the years — next year also.
Ankur Sharma
And any countries or yeah, go-ahead, please, sir.
Manish Nuwal
Please tell me what —
Ankur Sharma
So which regions or what’s helping you grow this so strongly is what I was trying to understand which region geographies is kind of driving this growth?
Manish Nuwal
So it’s a mix of all that we are doing better businesses in our existing territories. We are entering in new territories also. And that’s why we are having better results.
Ankur Sharma
Okay. Okay. Okay, great. Thank you.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Rakesh Roy from Boring AMC. Please go-ahead. Hi, sir. Morning, sir. Regarding sir, business, especially in Pinaka, the standard Pinaka is, as you say here is 10,000. How much is for the company you were saying we had to 6,000, am right?
Manish Nuwal
Yes,
Rakesh Roy
Okay. And sir, one thing on Pinata, sir, demand for in the international market is increasing, especially for especially for Armenia and like other countries. So how do you see the demand for our company supply or we get any or we get any inquiry from them.
Manish Nuwal
So we cannot answer on — we cannot share the details about each inquiry. But by and large, like, like we said that we already have some export orders for rockets, which we have started supplying. At the same time, in India, which — for which this program was started, so we have to — we have received the CCS clearance and we should sign the order anytime soon. So once we have these numbers, so definitely the interest of international more countries will start going. And once it grows, definitely we will get some kind of better utilization of our facilities. But okay, these kinds — these kind of orders from international market or Indian market takes time. Nothing happens in one year or
Rakesh Roy
Right, sir. Sir, just more, sir that this Pinaka is a replacement for old Pinaka or they are just adding more? Just to understand that how much is they are expecting, sir for of different —
Manish Nuwal
If you can discuss it directly, please.
Rakesh Roy
Okay. Okay, right, sir. And sir, you are saying you are apparently we have near to near to 5,000 CR order 6,000 you are expecting for and how much you are looking from the promos because promise especially in export market is increasing, the how much has been from the promission.
Manish Nuwal
So like I said, the total order book in defense as of now is INR4,971 crores and the Pinaka order should be around INR6,000 crores. So the total order book will be around INR11,000 crores. So this INR11,000 crores include all Pinaka, Brahmos, Akars, mines, grenades,, everything and okay, sir, last question about a male class IIB. How — where we are stand kind of separately, sir. So we have intention to start these programs in which we have already started working. So if anything significant or material happens, we will share with you.
Rakesh Roy
Okay. And one last over the next three, four years, where do you see in defense business where we see our revenue overall total revenue in different business.
Manish Nuwal
So like for this year, we have given a guidance of INR1,500 crores. So we have almost crossed INR900 crores and we should do around INR1,400 crores to INR1,500 crores in this year. So in the end of Q4 or once we will give guidance for the next year. We will share you that what we can achieve in the next financial year or in next year, something like that.
Rakesh Roy
Okay, thank you, sir. Thank you, sir thank you.
Operator
MR. MR. Rakesh, does that answer your question?
Rakesh Roy
Yes.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pratik Mukasdar from RNL Investments. Please go-ahead.
Pratik Mukasdar
Manishi, congratulations for a wonderful set of numbers. You guys are continuously raising the bar up. So it’s very heartening to see. I want to ask one question, now that US has a change of frames and Trump has come in and so does it really change the global sentiment as far as our business goes or that is just the headline and below the headline work is going as usual and it is even getting better.
Manish Nuwal
So like we have seen in the announcements or the intention of the United States to stop the recent conflict which is happening between Russia and Ukraine, but if you have to connect all the dots that what he is also saying that the Netro country should increase the difference budget to 5% from an average of 1.6% to 2%. So if all networ nation have to increase the defense budget to 5%, so what is the purpose for that? So if you look at the current situation and the recent scenario where practically the world’s ammunitions in those countries has almost wiped out or almost became zero leveling. So they have to fill-up them again, which will not take less than seven to eight years. And that is also assuming that the conflict will come to standstill. There will be no use of any ammunition in any part of the world. So if you look at the realistic situation, we believe that next seven years to 10 years should not be a big change in the demand of ammunitions and related products.
Pratik Mukasdar
Okay, okay. And how do you see the mining space like last year, as you mentioned earlier also, the — because of the extended monsoon, the growth was slightly subdued. But in coming years or for the coming period, how do you see it going-forward?
Manish Nuwal
We see that the drop-in say 5% from our estimation in this year, we should be able to do around more than 15% in the next year. So we should be able to make-up all the deficit which we are seeing in this year.
Pratik Mukasdar
Okay, fantastic. Thank you. Congratulations on that.
Operator
Thank you. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question to the management, you may press star and one. The next question is from the line of Bharat Shah from ASK Investment Managers. Please go-ahead.
Bharat Shah
Yeah. Hi, Manish., congratulations. Manish, on the — what we’ve discussed many times before, given all the opportunities in the international markets plus the defense where we have now made significant forays after many, many years of effort to build that activity. Now would we say that 20% plus kind of revenue growth for the next three to five years, years that vision remains intact, right?
Manish Nuwal
So like we have discussed in the previous call also, we believe that 15% volume growth should not be a big issue for us, barring some one or two quarters on a horizon of three, four years. So if you capture around 15% growth in our traditional market and if you top-up that with the defense sector opening up for us in a big manner. So we don’t see that 20% should be a problem for us from any angle. So definitely, we should do 20% plus as far as top-line is concerned and bottom-line, definitely, as we move ahead, the margins are already at a very healthy level or you can say a very, very, very good levels. Even if we maintain those levels and if we enhance our efficiencies and utilization, the margin will be very good to maintain and sustain at those numbers. So 20% growth should not be a problem at all for us.
Bharat Shah
Sure. And which will mean that compared to our Cold India institutional and the other domestic infra business, both defense and international business, I suppose would be growing at defense clearly, but even international business should be growing much better than that 15% growth rate that you have talked about, right?
Manish Nuwal
So if you look at the current international business size in this year also, nine months we have did around INR2,100 crores. In the domestic market, we have done around INR2,300 crores. So by and large, both are well divided and almost near to each. So I think that 15% growth in the both side should not be a problem for us.
Bharat Shah
Okay, which means about 20% plus growth over three to five years in topline and either maintaining margin or getting some more gains due to efficiency and operational strength plus the mix of the business favoring relatively better yielding businesses should be the kind of a broader picture. Some quarter in-between can pose a change, but that’s part of the game.
Manish Nuwal
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
Bharat Shah
Thank you, Manish.
Manish Nuwal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ravi Naredi from Naredi Investments. Please go-ahead.
Ravi Naredi
Sorry, Manish, sir, good disturb you again. This, Maharashtra project INR13,000 crores, how much top-line it gives on INR1 crore investment and what will be our margin and when we start this investment on this project.
Manish Nuwal
So likewise that it’s an MOU which we have signed, not a final contract with the government of Maharashtra. Once we have a final detailed plan, then we will discuss with our stakeholders.
Ravi Naredi
Okay. Thank you very much.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Rakesh Roy from Boring AMC. Please go-ahead.
Rakesh Roy
Yes, sir. Sir, my one question is regarding sir, are we working on a new product apart from current product
Aanchal Kewlani
As we have been speaking that the capex we have been undertaking year-on-year is to increase the geographies, increase the product portfolio and increase our geographical presence in domestic market also.
Rakesh Roy
Try to understand especially different business. Any product we are going to add-in near-future?
Aanchal Kewlani
Yes, we have been adding various products the ranges. So as and when the products qualify and we see the orders, we inform our stakeholders.
Rakesh Roy
Okay. And my last question, sir,, is there any planning to hive off our defense business in next three to four years?
Aanchal Kewlani
Sorry, can you just repeat your question? Is it possible from solar energy, is it possible to spin-off our or demerge our defense business in next two to three years after doing — currently we have defense in our group as a whole for economic explosive, we have the main defense business, so that will continue.
Rakesh Roy
Okay, okay. Thank you.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Yash from Stallion Asset. Please go-ahead.
Yash Gandhi
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my question is on your defense segment. What is the current EBITDA margins that you’re making and will they improve from here?
Moneesh Agrawal
So the current EBITDA margin for our company is around 7%. We believe that it should continue in the coming period.
Yash Gandhi
I’m just talking specifically depends on.
Manish Nuwal
You can ask such things, but we will answer only one thing that we as a business as a whole, we are achieving around 27% EBITDA margin and we should be able to continue the similar margins.
Yash Gandhi
Got it, got it. Got it. And sir, what would be your guidance for capex for FY ’26 and FY ’27?
Manish Nuwal
So that we will give in the end of Q4 results.
Yash Gandhi
Okay, okay. Got it, sir. And regarding the INR3,000 crores of Pinaka orders, so this will be like they will be materializing in your order book in FY ’26 once you sign the documents or are they in-process? Like what is the status of it?
Manish Nuwal
We should be signing the contract anytime soon because after the CCA has cleared the basically in basically the procurement of these products from solar as at the same time, there is another difference PSU, government undertaking. So once they have cleared, it’s a matter of time and we are expecting it to get signed very soon. So we will definitely share the news with our once we sign the contract.
Yash Gandhi
Sure, sure. And sir, my last question is again on the MOU with Maharashtra Government. So this project will have products which are like not your conventional products related to missiles or explosive. There will be something completely new that you’re working on.
Manish Nuwal
So just go through that MOU, which we have shared notification with the exchange. You can see the things which we have already covered. So those things will give you any clarity questions.
Yash Gandhi
Okay. Okay, got it, got it. Thank you, sir. All the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Alisha Mahawla from Envision Capital. Please go-ahead.
Alisha Mahawla
Hi, sir, good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. A couple of clarifications. Earlier we mentioned that the order book — execute — the existing order book ex of Panaka execution should be three, four years. Is this for defense or the total INR7,000 odd crore order book? And second, for Panaka, if you could help us understand that while the execution is eight to 10 years, what kind of milestones or how will the ramp-up happen? And third, what would be the incremental investments that would be required for Pinaka that we may probably have to undertake. Thank you.
Manish Nuwal
So the total — the total order book from non-defense is around INR2151 crores, that is INR200 crore INR151 crores. Those orders for — are for next two years. And as far as defense is concerned, the international orders are in a timeline of three to four years. And once Minaka comes in, the order will vary from seven to 12 years time. So once those comes in, we will share the details. And as far as investments on Pinata thing is concerned, we give an annual — we have already shared that in this year, we are going to do a capex of around INR1,200 crores for the group as a whole. So that covers all those investments.
Alisha Mahawla
Sure. While I understand the execution timeline of seven to 12 years, will it be possible to maybe also share a little bit color of how will the ramp-up be happening?
Manish Nuwal
Color means what you want to understand?
Alisha Mahawla
Will it be starting from ’26 onwards and if there is any milestone or maybe is it going to be slightly back-ended, it will ramp-up and maybe only be meaningful for us from a revenue perspective, say ’28 and beyond.
Manish Nuwal
We will see that once we sign an order within six months, the deliveries will start and we are geared up for that. And there will be practically consistent deliveries of the products unless otherwise that if there is any special situation emerges, which require us to delay the supply or due to any kind of supply-chain disruption. So those are natural business scenarios. But apart from that, we should be able to deliver the product-based on — because there are two products in this order. So one order will be for seven years, one order will be for 12 years. So ramp-up will start from next financial year from Q3.
Alisha Mahawla
Understood. Thank you and all the best.
Operator
So next question is a follow-up question. It’s from the line of Dipen Vakil from PhillipCapital. Please go-ahead. Hello, Mr Dipen, your line has been unmuted. Please go-ahead with your question. Hello, Mr, your line has been unmuted. Please go-ahead with your question.
Dipen Vakil
Yeah, am I audible?
Operator
Yes.
Dipen Vakil
Yeah. Sir, my question is on the line of our ammunition side of business, sir. So we are seeing some huge growth potential coming on the ammunition side of it. So can you highlight what kind of orders are anticipated here or what kind of — what kind of growth are we seeing in the ammunition side of it now and even going ahead,
Manish Nuwal
I have answered these questions repeatedly in this call, you can go through the transcript you will get the answer please
Dipen Vakil
I’ll look into the transcript then. Thank you.
Manish Nuwal
Thank you very much.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Nishant Chowhan from Geojit. Please go-ahead.
Nishant Chowhan
Hi, sir, am I audible?
Manish Nuwal
Yes, yes.
Nishant Chowhan
Sir, on the defense orders, I mean, we’ve talked about our current order book of around INR4,971 crores. So just wanted to know, are these more export orders or they are for the domestic consumption?
Manish Nuwal
It includes domestic and international
Nishant Chowhan
Okay, because I think last quarter we mentioned about two big orders which were for export orders itself. So it would be largely export-oriented or international.
Manish Nuwal
Yes. As of now, the orders are mainly for international.
Nishant Chowhan
Okay. Thank you. And sir, secondly, we’ve talked about entering Kazakhystan and Thailand as per our annual report. So any update on that, sir?
Manish Nuwal
Yeah, the united Thailet has already started. Kazakhystan, we should start in next two months.
Nishant Chowhan
Okay, thank you. Thank you for your time.
Manish Nuwal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Mr Chirag for his closing comments.
Chirag Muchhala
Yeah, thank you to all the participants for their presence and thank you to management for giving us the opportunity to host this call. Sir, would you like to make any closing remarks?
Aanchal Kewlani
Yes. We appreciate your participation and interest in our company’s performance and we will be very happy to see you again in the closing quarter of FY ’25. Thank you so much, everyone.
Chirag Muchhala
Thank you all. This concludes this conference call.
Operator
Thank you. On behalf of Centrum Broking Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.