Snowman Logistics Limited (NSE: SNOWMAN) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Feb. 03, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Rajguru Behgal — President, Rail GDL
Samvid Gupta — Joint Managing Director
Jainam Shah — Analyst
Analysts:
Kaustav Bubna — Analyst
Prashant Kale — Analyst
Anirudh A Damani — Analyst
Achal Lohade — Analyst
Amit Dixit — Analyst
Krupashankar NJ — Analyst
Vishal Darji — Analyst
Gaurav Gandhi — Analyst
Aniket Kulkarni — Analyst
Anirudh A Damani — Analyst
Koundinya Nimmagadda — Analyst
Riya Mehta — Analyst
Vikram Suryavanshi — Analyst
Aditya Mongia — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, you have been connected to Gateway District Parks and Snowman Logistics Limited Conference Call. Please stay connected. The call will begin shortly. Participants you are connected to Gateway District Parks Limited and Snowman Logistics Limited Conference Call. Please stay connected. The call will begin shortly. Thank you ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q3 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call of Gateway Distry Parks Limited and Snowman Logistics Limited. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on belief, opinion and expectation of the company as on the date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
Today on the call, we have Prem Kishan Dass Gupta, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Ishaan Gupta, Joint Managing Director; Mr. Samvid Gupta, Joint Managing Director; Mr. Kartik Sundaram Aiyer, CFO, GDL; Mr. Rajguru Behgal, President, Rail GDL; Mr. Manoj Singh, President, CFS GDL;Mr. Padamdeep Singh Handa, Chief Commercial Officer, Snowman; and Mr. N. Balakrishna, CFO, Snowman.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
We will now directly begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star L1 on the touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star N2. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Participants should avoid Bluetooth via phones or speaker phone. Ladies and gentlemen, please limit your questions to three per participants.
First question is from the line of Kosto from BMSPL Capital. Please go-ahead.
Kaustav Bubna
Yeah, hi. Thank you for taking my question. Can you hear me?
Operator
Yes, please go-ahead. Excellent. Yeah. So the company has been talking about the benefit from DFC for many years now, but obviously, the financial benefit is yet to be seen for the company from the DFC. So has the Western DFC become operational in parts and is the Western DFC already contributing to the financials of gateway district parts? When will the Western DFC become fully operational? And what type of TEUs can the company expect in the next three years due to the DFC opportunity.
Unidentified Speaker
So the DFC started in a different section starting from 2020. So we have seen the benefits of it over the years with faster turnaround times, increased double-stacking, lesser imbalance. And so we have consistently improved our EBITDA per and running through the DFC coming in. It’s there till Mundra power for us, but GNPT the finalization only come by possibly end of this year, December 2025 is what a reason, but it could probably take another few months after that also.
Kaustav Bubna
Could you — so could you speak a little bit about when the whole — when the full Western line is operational, exactly how Gateway just — how this will — over-time, over-time, how this will improve our volumes in the container our container railway business.
Unidentified Speaker
So we have a pan-India license with JNPT getting connected will help us significantly compared to all the other players. There are others with pan-India license also and then JNPT getting double stacked will allow us to convert some cargo that’s currently going by road to rail and at better margins compared to right now from single stacks to double stacks when it will be there. So those are primarily the benefits to the even faster turnaround time right now to the NPD, it will take 72 hours, but to take about 30 hours and that will also help us.
Kaustav Bubna
Understood. And just one more one last question, if you may. So how did our capacity in the rail division increase for Gateway post the merger with Gateway Rail Freight Private Limited and the other company, the East India Company. Did it increase our capacities in the rail division for the listed entity, which was compared to what it was pre-merger.
Unidentified Speaker
Pre-merger is basically the CFS business was separate and the rail business was separate. So it just became one entity, it being a stronger balance sheet and formal management. But in terms of specifically increasing rail capacity, the merger did not have any impact.
Unidentified Speaker
Okay, great. Thank you so much.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Before we move to the next question, a reminder to the participants to ask a question, you may press star N1. The next question is from the line of Prashant Kali from Star Capital. Please go-ahead.
Prashant Kale
Hello, sir. Congratulations on your good results. I have one question. The Eastern dedicated freight corridor has been commissioned already, but we don’t have any operations on that freight corridor. So is there any reason why we are not interested in that corridor. And another question is, do we have any plan to establish any facility on that corridor?
Unidentified Speaker
So no immediate plan right now from. One big advantage of WDFC is that it’s double start and more of the locations that we service, all the cargo comes to the western ports. But that being said, over-time, when we keep on expanding and looking at new locations, we’re not against expanding on that side. So you might see one or two terminals come within that region as well but we are more focused on the exit rather than domestic and is used a lot more for domestic and bulk as well.
Prashant Kale
Okay, so the Eastern dedicated Fred corridor don’t have much opportunities for exit right.
Unidentified Speaker
It does for the new location, but not the ones that we operate out of.
Prashant Kale
Okay and sir the Snowman acquisition and making it a subsidiary has resulted into extra exceptional item which has impacted our EPS. But it’s a subsidiary. How did we account it as a income on the income statement as an exceptional item because that has skewed the consolidated result too much. But in practice, there is no income.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah. So this was basically we were an associate company and now after crossing 50%, it comes under subsidiary. So we’re just following the accounting standard guidelines that are there. So it’s a notional gain, it’s not a cash item, it’s not a taxable item. But according to accounting standards, there is a gain of INR390 crores basis the fair-value of the equity that’s come in. But we’ve given a separate line-item to it specifying the amounts if you remove that then you can see what our operational EBITDA and operational profit is.
Prashant Kale
But we don’t have to pay any tax on that income right?
Unidentified Speaker
No it’s just like a balance sheet item like a one-line entry.
Prashant Kale
Okay, okay, okay. So it’s appearing in the balance sheet and to balance it, we need to cover it as a income to balance the asset side.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah, we’re just following the standard guidelines.
Prashant Kale
Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Understood now. Because you didn’t publish the balance sheet. That’s why — that’s why I had a question that where-is this adjustment coming from? So it’s just for balance — adjusting on the balance sheet. Okay. Thank you very much, sir.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Anirud Dhamani from Artra India Ventures. Please go-ahead.
Anirudh A Damani
Yeah, hi. So I had a question about how are you planning to address the challenges that led to this net loss in the Snowman logistics results compared to a profit in the same quarter last year? Also been a sequential degrowth in revenues.
Unidentified Speaker
. So we are working closely, closely towards creating that bottom-line working towards cutting down on our costs rapidly. And a lot of work has been done in last couple of months on the same aspect. Also, as this is the time when the contracts are under renewal, we are trying to correct the revenues also so that our subsequent quarters look much better.
Anirudh A Damani
I had a follow-on question to that. You also mentioned that the Amazon contract has moved from dedicated warehousing. Is that is it a complete like termination of the contract or what has changed with the Amazon relationship?
Unidentified Speaker
So with Amazon, after QuickCommerce came in, then with the arm of Amazon, which is Amazon fresh and the Amazon pantry business. So they have changed their model to compete with quick commerce and they are going directly from the suppliers to the dark stores. So they don’t require these dedicated fulfillment centers anymore. But we for sure that this might not be a long-term thing. So it was a back-to-back lease when we started and we ended our leases and we recuperated any capex that we have done as part of the deal in Amazon. So now with — on the growth part, we are focusing on small distributes. Apart from the three customers which we had publicly announced, we do have a couple more now, but unfortunately, we can’t reveal the names due to confidentiality clauses. But we are getting good traction and there are a couple of large clients who we are working with two growth notes to do. And as mentioned, the focus is always-on the bottom-line and we have had some costs in this quarter. That’s why we see a dip compared to last quarter — last year same quarter and those increases in labor and increases in electricity, which we don’t foresee that every quarter such a large impact would be there.
Anirudh A Damani
I see. So I’m happy to take another — ask another question if there’s anybody else in-line after them.
Unidentified Speaker
Sure. Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from Nuvama Institutional Equities. Please go-ahead.
Achal Lohade
Yeah, good afternoon, sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Sir, first question, if you could highlight in terms of the market-share movement for our market? Yeah.
Rajguru Behgal
Hi,, this side. So I will start with Delhi NCR market-share. So we have been able to maintain our market-share to 17% compared to last quarter also, we were 17% and — but at Sanewal, we have been able to ramp-up our market-share from 24% that was last quarter to 26.5%, closer to 27%. And in Utra Fund, there has been a sharp increase in-market share. So from 23% last quarter, now it is 30%.
Achal Lohade
And when you say last quarter, you mean 2Q FY ’25 or 3Q FY ’24, sir, which you do ’24 ’25. Okay. So it’s a quarter-over-quarter there is an improvement. Yes. Understood. And if you could guide us in terms of the — you know the market-share in 3Q ’24, same quarter last year?
Rajguru Behgal
Yeah. So in Q3 last year, the market-share Delhi NCR was 16% and at Ludhiana, it was 21% and in Updra Kan, it was 27%.
Achal Lohade
So essentially, we have improved market-share on Y-o-Y as well as Q-o-Q basis?
Rajguru Behgal
Yes.
Achal Lohade
And what has driven this? Because if you could also help us with the EBITDA margins as well for the CFS and rail?
Unidentified Speaker
9,600 and CFS is about — it’s just below INR1,300. So there has been some different discounts, but at the same time and some increase in discount, but at the same time, our double-stacking has improved. So it’s kind of offset each other. That’s why our EBITDA per day is consistent with H1 and also there has been a shift in the throughput, we’ve done lesser MPs also. So it might not show in the overall volume growth, it’s only about 2%, but our percentage has gone up more than a Laden plus empty percentage.
Achal Lohade
Could you be able to share what is the cargo growth in Laden containers?
Unidentified Speaker
We don’t give the exact split on that, but I mean, there is a few…
Achal Lohade
In double-digit growth.
Unidentified Speaker
Double-digit compared to.
Achal Lohade
Y-o-Y. The growth is in double-digit for the laden cargo. So is it the MPs mix which is changing the realization and the margin profile? That’s the question I had.
Unidentified Speaker
No, not in double-digits, mid-single digit.
Achal Lohade
Okay, understood. If you could also highlight how much of the JNPT cargo currently is moved by road, what volume it would be annually?
Unidentified Speaker
It’s hard for us to say because we’re not there with all the markets where JNPT caters to, but for us our overall volume is only about 5% from JNPT?
Achal Lohade
Right. No, but I mean, given these three markets put together, how much volume you think is going to going by road to JNPT.
Unidentified Speaker
Ffor the ICD, you know the locations that we have, especially in the north, we’d say about 70% 80% is on rail balance is on-road, but it’s improving by a few percentage every year.
Achal Lohade
Okay. And can you help us understand in terms of the market scenario, you know, are what is the outlook in terms of the market? And by the way, if you could also talk about these three markets, what has been the volume growth in this market at the aggregate level?
Samvid Gupta
Yeah, I’ll just take the first on the last thing. Broadly, I mean, we want this consistent trend to go. We’ve got the INR100 crore EBITDA also then and so we’re happy with that considering the global scenarios, but there could be some changes like especially in the Red situation, if shipping lines start using this route again, then we could see a boost in volumes compared to what we factored in. So we’re still not giving up the number for what we expect next quarter or the following year, we’ll probably wait another quarter and then see and give our guidance for future. And that we will just what the specific market growth we will. So yeah.
Unidentified Speaker
So if we talk about NCR, so there has been a growth of around 6% to 7%, but if you talk about other markets like Utras and Kashipur, there is a slight degrowth overall because of waste paper volumes. At, we have been able to retain our market-share and over the period of time, we increase. So what we can look at is because of the geopolitical scenario like Samit mentioned, so there was a shortage of empty container inventory also. It’s also led to lower movement of empty containers. Going-forward, we are just waiting and watching and how the situation will pan-out. But we can see that from January numbers are slightly better than if we look at November-December numbers. But it is very soon to give you complete clarity how the things will pan-out.
Samvid Gupta
So just to clarify that January days were our terminal wise increased. But if you look at overall market, NCR Q3 versus Q3 is 2% growth.
Rajguru Behgal
Ludhiana is down 20% and is down 30% is down 20% Y-o-Y and 30%. Is that have I understood it?
Samvid Gupta
32%, the overall market has gone down, but still for us, I mean, we’ve managed to increase our market-share in that falling market also.
Achal Lohade
Right. And just a quick question on this. If we look at the port volume year-to-date, nine months, they are up about 9%, 10% Y-o-Y. But if you just sum-up the leading terminals, we see that there is hardly any change. So can you explain, is there a reversal of the market-share for rail? Is it there is an element of calculation changes? Like is the transshipment gone up a lot and which is influencing the port numbers, et-cetera?
Samvid Gupta
Yes. So trans shipment and MTs get counted there along with coastal shipping also. So it’s not really a comparable thing. So we only look at where our ICD are present and what the market there is because we are also not servicing a good chunk of the country by rail.
Achal Lohade
Understood. I have more questions, but I’ll come back-in queue. Thank you.
Samvid Gupta
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities. Please proceed.
Amit Dixit
Yeah, hi, good evening, everyone, and thanks for the opportunity. A couple of questions from my side. The first one is on the growth plans that we have, particularly with respect to new OCD. Now as I understand, Jaipur is still not crystallized. So over next, it will take two years. What are the kind of options we are considering at this point in time?
Unidentified Speaker
We are actively looking at two, three options. So hopefully, we can announce something by next quarter. And Jaipur is still going to take time as we’ve reported in the past, we’ll wait for the land issue to clear up, but there’s definitely plans to expand on the rail linked ICD side with two or three is coming in the next couple of years.
Amit Dixit
Is it possible to just highlight the regions or you will do it at the later date as and when things come?
Unidentified Speaker
No, we’d only announced that after we bought our land.
Amit Dixit
And what exactly is Ailing Jaipur? I mean, has it moved ahead compared to last-time or the situation is just stuck there.
Unidentified Speaker
We reported in a account. It’s it’s a legal process that there is a date of hearing that keeps happening, so nothing significant to report in the progress there? Okay.
Amit Dixit
The second one is on double-stacking. Is it possible to quantify the double-stacking in this quarter? And how does it compare with the last quarter?
Unidentified Speaker
It’s 40% versus 38% last quarter.
Amit Dixit
Okay, that’s great. Thank you so much and all the best.
Unidentified Speaker
Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. And the next question is from the line of Shankar NJ from Avendus Spark. Please go-ahead.
Krupashankar NJ
Yeah. Good evening and thank you for the opportunity. A couple of questions. So first upon specific end-markets, you did say that NCR has grown at about 2% or while the other two markets are quite weak. But on the other hand, you are seeing that exports as a whole is picking-up in the 4th-quarter as well. So can you give some — throw some light around you know, what are the key areas which is working out and what is — what are the key commodities where there has been a substantial weakness.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah. So like I said, the NCR market growth was 2%, wherein our terminals and NCR grew by 6% to 7%. So here we have seen still stability, but there’s a degrowth which has happened in Ludhihana and is primarily due to two factors. Ludhihama, the complete market is heavily dependent on scrap. So that is one of the major reasons and the overall market went down because of the low volumes of scrap and the volumes have not formed up as of now. And the other markets such as, it is heavily dependent on waste paper. So there also the overall market is long because of the low volumes of waste paper. So these two commodities led to de-growth in the overmark — overall market in both and Utrakan and.
Krupashankar NJ
Okay, I got it. In the market specifically, just wanted to get a sense you have seen some growth of rice exports picking-up again and any trends you have seen in the visible in the month of January, which you can highlight in the call, please?
Unidentified Speaker
It’s a similar trend going on December to January, so nothing significant to report as such.
Krupashankar NJ
Okay. Understood. Understood. On the CFS business, again, just trying to figure out, we are still in-process of executing the sale of the CFS businesses. Understanding is correct. May any update over there?
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah. We’re evaluating our options just so like we had said in the last call that we’ll probably take — if we won’t have any news to give in this financial year. So possibly after the close of financial year in the next investor call, you can give some better update on it.
Krupashankar NJ
Got it. All right. Thank you. That’s it from my side.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vishal from RoboCapital. Please go-ahead.
Vishal Darji
Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is on the Snowman logistics part. On the EBITDA margin front, our margins are there as compared to last year. So they are around 16% currently. So going-forward, what type of margins are we expecting? Like you had said that we are moving to an asset-light model and the increased share of distribution business might affect the margins. So what type of trend are we expecting.
Unidentified Speaker
As our overall business dynamics and the mix has changed in last few quarters, the EBITDA margins though will remain close to what we were around 18% to 20% is what we expected to say, but overall absolute number EBITDA is going to grow with our expansion in snow distribute.
Vishal Darji
Okay. So sustainable, we can take it as 18% to 20%, right?
Unidentified Speaker
Yes. The reason for that is we are increasing our distribution business, which is low-margin, but high revenue and the absolute EBITDA will grow and it supports our warehousing and transportation business by increasing stickiness and those same customers end-up using our warehouses and transportation. We don’t do distribution business, which doesn’t touch our warehouses or our transportation.
Vishal Darji
Okay, got it. And as you are expanding your pilot capacity, what kind of revenue growth are you expecting? Any guidance you would like to give?
Unidentified Speaker
We are targeting, say, by end of FY ’26, anywhere between INR800 crores to INR900 crores of revenue.
Vishal Darji
Okay, okay, great. Thank you. Okay, sir.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Gaurav Gandhi from Glow Retail Capital Management. Please go-ahead.
Gaurav Gandhi
Yes. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, what are the updates on the issue? Has it resolved or any update regarding that? Any signs of traffic shifting back there?
Unidentified Speaker
No, as of now, the issue remains the same because even though as CSI announced, it will take time before everything settles down and all the shipping lines are still using the route which is through the Cape of rather than the first. At the same time, freight rates have gone up significantly both because the battery and generally the container and trade routes which are being used by the shipping lines right now and the capacity is well utilized remains the same target times remain the same and for our end-customers, the freight rates are going up even now.
Gaurav Gandhi
And sir, as and when it will resolve, how much volume growth you are expecting?
Unidentified Speaker
There is no direct relationship which we can identify between when the situation gets resolved and linking it directly to a volume, it will be very difficult to say. But generally speaking, whenever the freight yields slow-down or container availability goes up, then we expect the export out of India to become more competitive.
Gaurav Gandhi
All right. Thank you. Thank you.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aniket Kulkarni from BMSPL Capital. Please go-ahead.
Aniket Kulkarni
Yeah, thank you for taking my question. So I wanted to ask why are we more exam focused versus domestic focus in the rail business? And how will the completion of the DFC on the Western side help us if you are more focused on that, you said the Eastern DFC catered more on the domestic side. So what are your thoughts on that?
Unidentified Speaker
So we tried domestic in the past, but for domestic, you need a more wider network of terminals. We only have five railing terminals. Domestic, most routes are single stack and there’s imbalance as well and it’s lower turnaround time. So we’ve chosen to focus on as a strategy at least for the last 10 years, it’s been pretty much 95% plus on exam side. We’re not against running mixed trains. Once we have a more wider network, say, if we have 10 locations, it’s easier to triangulate trains and have a better domestic presence. And so for that we need to like we said, we have plans for three more terminals and even more after that. We’ll wait for that and eventually the plan is to get into domestic as well.
Aniket Kulkarni
Yeah. On the question DFC completion, so how will it help us more in the exam operations as compared to the domestic ones because you said in earlier that the Eastern DFC was more domestic focus, right? So what is the difference between the Eastern and the Western DFC and how will it help us more on the side.
Unidentified Speaker
So Western DFC connects to Mundra JNPT, which is where we carry all our cargo. Kandala also, we’ve recently-announced that service. Eastern DFC, we are not connecting to any ports. So if we have to use that, that might be on the domestic side, but we don’t have any specific plans for it right now. As the Western DFC, basically all the imports and exports going to these three, four ports will help us increase our volumes.
Aniket Kulkarni
Thank you so much.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Janum Shah from Equirus Securities. Please go-ahead.
Jainam Shah
Yeah, hi, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is related to the acquisition of Snowman. So of course, it is that are you going to have any more increase in the stake in the company and we are okay with this 50%, like any more cash-flow to be deployed in this moment from the gate.
Unidentified Speaker
So our plan was to do 50% and we could acquire 5% under acquisitions this year, which we’ve pretty much exhausted. So no immediate plans to increase our stake further, but we’ll have a — have a look whenever we have free-cash flows and we have to decide our overall strategy. This is the first target.
Jainam Shah
Got it. Got it, sir. And on the distributors only. So as we are following the company since last two, three years and we have been hearing that we’ll be adding up new ICD in the let’s northern or central region, which will cater to the DFC, but no significant movement has done on that part and no significant investment has been done. And even Jaipur is kind of holded as of now. And if we see from a cash-flow perspective, we are not doing any major capex in terms of investment in ICD. And if you see the existing or net is degrowing and of course, has been operational for major majority of our cargo, which is like 95% towards and. Then what kind of thing is stopping us to go aggressive in terms of addition of any terminal in any of the region to have better volumes going-forward or to eventually use the capital better or capital better.
Unidentified Speaker
So ever since we have announced it, we have evaluated dozens of opportunities, some of them are downfield, but mostly. And the challenge that we are facing is that we are not able to do land acquisition in the correct shape and in the correct location, which meets on our criteria as we wanted. We would rather wait and do the terminal in a good location such as our our facility. And for that it’s taking time. Even as we speak right now, there are three of course proposals where we are at the finalization stage. So as if we find any problems in the land, it’s a big challenge in India, then we drop that proposal. And if the dual engines and everything goes well, then we will be going ahead.
Jainam Shah
Got it, sir. To follow-up on this, are we — like, of course, there has been a master, which has been there. So any of the terminal which has came into it and if it is coming, are we participating in that?
Unidentified Speaker
Sorry, your voice was not are you asking it any terminal coming up acquisition?
Jainam Shah
No, so I’m asking that there has been a Master plan in which there would be a few terminals which will be by, let’s say, Government of India or something. So are we planning to be part of that because they are wanted to have a party — private participation increase in this particular segment of ICD and JVs?
Unidentified Speaker
Right. We — whenever the proposal is done, we definitely the a look, but it doesn’t fit with our business model usually because all of them are built on government land and after a certain number of years, usually in this model, the facility you have to hand over back to the public sector. And also it’s a common user facility if you build-on whether it or DFC land. And in our business model, we believe that we want to run our trains exclusively to our terminals and we are not in it only for the terminal business. We want to do the rail further. We don’t want to do a terminal where others are earning on the rail.
Jainam Shah
Got it. Got it. And just one last thing, by any chance, are we seeing that the competitor — competitive intensity which might be increasing, which might be leading to a lower return ratios from the newer terminal size against what we would have anticipated and which is eventually leading to a delay in the acquisition of the terminal? Is it just land issues and all or any other thing that you would.
Unidentified Speaker
The voice is very when you have that last question so you got it.
Operator
Mr Shah, may we please request you to use your handset if you are on speaker?
Jainam Shah
Yeah, I’m using handset only, just giving it. So I’m saying that by any chance, if any of the, let’s say, there would be some already kind of exceed in a particular region and we would be acquiring some land nearby. And then eventually because of the competitive intensity, our financials might not be working in terms of the return ratios. Eventually because of that, are we forgoing any of the opportunity to have — to add any terminal or it is just the land aggregation or any land acquisition problem that we are facing for the newer terminals?
Unidentified Speaker
No, it is primarily the land aggregation. We have enough funds available both in our treasury and the ability to raise, but that has not been the bottleneck. The land aggregation has been the bottleneck for us.
Jainam Shah
That’s it from my side. And thank you so much for all the answers.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Anirud from India Ventures. Please go-ahead.
Anirudh A Damani
Thank you so much. So I had a couple of questions about the capital outlay. So it looks like Kolkata, we’re going to start with 5,900 odd ballots in this quarter. The total outlay for this project was for 9,000 pallets. Any indication on when that would be completed? And also what is the total size of capacity we’re building at Krishna Patnam?
Unidentified Speaker
So in, we are completing the first phase of the warehousing. After that, we have another year, year and a half when we will reinvest into Phase-2 in Calcutta and that will cover-up the entire outlay as we have projected. The land and everything else is already there. It is just that we are creating Phase-1 and then we’ll go to Phase-2. In terms of, we are adding additional — I mean, additionally, we are adding 5,500 pallets, which will be also getting up and ready by this year and financial year.
Anirudh A Damani
So just to clarify, the total capacity at Krishna will be about 11,200 barrelates and would be 9,000. Yes, approximately. And will be 9,000 plus. We already have another warehouse, which will add-up and trade total of 15,000. Or 15,000. And then Calcutta, is that under the model where we acquire the land and we own everything or is this the BTS model that we’re doing?.
Unidentified Speaker
It is we have acquired the land and we own everything there.
Anirudh A Damani
And just one last question, how are we financing this total capital investment of around INR150 crores over the next 12 months.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah, it’s primarily debt-funded, but also on equity portion of about 20% 25%.
Anirudh A Damani
Sorry, you said equity, you would be raising equity?
Unidentified Speaker
No, like internal accruals.
Anirudh A Damani
Internal accruals. Okay, got it. Thank you so much.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Nimagara from Jefferies. Please go-ahead.
Koundinya Nimmagadda
Yeah, hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is, how has Jan been — I mean this quarter how is that trend like with respect to your volume growth or the momentum on-ground either on the ICD side, on the port side, if you can throw some color on that, please if you are seeing any pickup?
Unidentified Speaker
A very similar trend going on, more or the same as see?
Koundinya Nimmagadda
Okay. Do you think the volumes may have bottomed-out at this current levels? Do we think this is a trough or do you still see a potential decline from here as well?
Unidentified Speaker
It’s hard to say on the overall macro volumes, but we have a healthy pipeline in-place for our terminals where we see our market-share going up going-forward.
Koundinya Nimmagadda
Understood. Sir, and my second question is on the margin front. So how do you see that trend from here on? Because I think on a Q-o-Q basis in your oil business, there is a marginal decline on per TU basis. So I mean what has driven this decline, if you can throw some color, please?
Unidentified Speaker
And it’s more or less the same. If you look at H1, you were at 9,600, we’re still at 9,600. So every quarter can’t be the same. It depends on the volume mix, little bit up-and-down number of 20s, 40s overall MP running under same running. So there are many factors, but we’ve always given this guidance that we’ll be roughly in this range and we expect that to continue going-forward as well.
Koundinya Nimmagadda
Understood, sir. Sir, my last question is on the CFS divestment part. Any color or any thought for us? I mean, where are we on that?
Unidentified Speaker
As you know, we mentioned earlier on the call also, we’ll probably be able to give a better update maybe next quarter, so like three, four months down, maybe we can report something.
Koundinya Nimmagadda
Sure, sir. Thank you very much.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Riya Mehta from Equitous. Please go-ahead.
Riya Mehta
Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity. My first question is in regards to that, you said that the markets of, have been seeing a decline in the scrap and waste paper. So apart from these commodities, what other markets revival do we see for these markets to grow?
Unidentified Speaker
So basically, if we look at both these markets, so I’ll just give you a percentage, like 20% of the volumes are there in the market of. So no better other commodities, whatever percentage they do well, but they won’t be able to match-up unless and until there is an improvement in scrap volumes. And similarly, it has a huge percentage if you look at the waste paper market in. So they don’t have those kind of volume — volume in commodities aren’t there, which can substitute those volumes. So we have to wait for their growth to happen until the volumes are stabilized and again there is a market growth.
Riya Mehta
Got it. And what will be the possible reason for NCR growing just at 2%?
Unidentified Speaker
So if we look at NCR, it could have been growing further, but because of the empty inventory shortage because you know this because of this dead sea crisis, there has been erratic arrivals at the port side. And overall, the shipping lines have to supply to other locations also and they were not able to supply to that extent for the hinterland. So that has also let down not only the moment of empties, but also the export-related boxes. MCR also has scrap and trading goods, which overall right now is very.
Riya Mehta
This is scrap steel, right? Yes got it. And when you say that FY ’27 we are seeing growth of around INR800 crores to INR900 crores. Where do we see this growth coming from?
Unidentified Speaker
So this is the first updated that revenues will be both the slow man reaching by end of FY ’25.
Riya Mehta
Yeah, for that only.
Unidentified Speaker
Which is our Five-Year business and taking into account the couple of facilities at least that we’ll be adding every year, if not more?
Riya Mehta
Got it. And where do you see growth coming for Gateway District considering these markets continue to have a sluggish outlook for a couple of quarters at least?
Unidentified Speaker
Will be consistently growing our market-share. Becoming double-stack will give us a boost in that region. We’ve already seen some improvement in volumes there and we’ll continue to geographically expand also into new locations, which will add further into this.
Riya Mehta
While we see our double-stacking has increased by 2% from 38% to 40%, our margins have not seen that kind of improvement. So could you quantify how much a percentage of double-stacking increase would lead to how much of our savings and cost?
Unidentified Speaker
It’s kind of hard-to-do that because again, double-stacking depends on the weight, the route, the imbalance. So it’s not a clear-cut formula that for every percent of double-stacking we get this much growth saving. Also, we don’t share exact double-stacking saving in repeat terms publicly.
Riya Mehta
Yeah, right. But directionally if we have increased the double-stacking, our margin should have improved. So what possible reason that it has not improved directionally?
Unidentified Speaker
Just as I just mentioned that port split volume split, weight split, so those factors make a difference. Also, some discounting has increased in certain markets, which we were mentioning, but overall, our plan is to keep the entire volumes growing, our market-share growing, which will help distribute our fixed costs over a larger base of volume and run the asset as fast as we can.
Riya Mehta
Got it. And you were talking about various cost initiatives and gateway. So what all cost initiatives and are we planning to take?
Unidentified Speaker
Yes, I think again that was a snowman commentary that was given., you can elaborate on it.
Samvid Gupta
That was on Snowman wherein we are trying to work-out on warehouse level, unit-level, labor cost and overall efficiencies of chambers, those are what we have taken internally.
Riya Mehta
Got it. And for Gateway, are we seeing any improvement of going back to INR10,000 level of EBITDA EBITDA per ton for rail?
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah, hopefully when GLPD is collected to DFC, then we should be seeing 10,000 plus. Also, we would also say three factors. One is being double stacked, one is Jaipur coming in, one is JNPT being double-stack. So one out of those three is done, Jaipur has been delayed. Maybe one more terminal comes in, that will help us push in this direction.
Riya Mehta
So how much is delayed by? We don’t know when it will come in it’s we are basically waiting for the legal proceedings to get over and it’s the. This is started since how long?
Samvid Gupta
This about little over year a year now.
Riya Mehta
So once you get the regulatory approval, you will be able to get it right.
Unidentified Speaker
Yes.
Riya Mehta
And this is stuck with which board?
Unidentified Speaker
It’s Delhi Adjudicating Authority.
Riya Mehta
Okay. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. And the next question is from the line of Vikram Villa Suryavanshi from PhillipCapital India Private Limited. Please go-ahead.
Vikram Suryavanshi
Yeah, good evening, sir. Sorry, in case question is repeated because there was some disturbance in my line. What was the imbalance here in this quarter?
Unidentified Speaker
55-45 in favour of imports.
Vikram Suryavanshi
55, 45. Yeah, and can you repeat what was the EBITDA per to you in rail and CFS?
Unidentified Speaker
9,600 and paid 12, 50 or 12, 70.
Vikram Suryavanshi
9,600 and CFS was.
Unidentified Speaker
1270.
Vikram Suryavanshi
Got it. Yeah. Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aditya from Kotak Securities. Please go-ahead.
Aditya Mongia
Thank you for the opportunity. The first question that I had was linked up to the issue of discounts and maybe cuts in pricing. Could you give us a color of where have these discounts been more focused on within the markets that you operate? Maybe a general color across the three markets, how has pricing kind of moved on a Y-o-Y basis?
Unidentified Speaker
Sorry, I didn’t get the second part, but basically this is Ludhiana belt which has seen the highest-level of discount and what we’re doing is kind of focus on 40 feet volumes so that we can at least double start the cargo and still make a good margin on it.
Aditya Mongia
Are the other markets static in terms of pricing or have there been some pain over there also in, let’s say, Delhi market?
Unidentified Speaker
There has been, but not as much as?
Aditya Mongia
Understood. The second question that I had was more to do with the competitor’s move of setting up a terminal in JNPT. Now I understand that the volumes coming from that perspective for you are limited, but does this lead to kind of limiting your gains from DSP once GMPT gets connected because someone already is setting up a terminal because that alter the way you think through JSPT over-time?
Unidentified Speaker
No, it depends on where your original destination is. So for example, in NCR, like if we have a terminal like we cater to the, Nimrana,, this kind of market so ultimately it’s the catchment area we have to focus on. Being near the port doesn’t have any significant advantage from the ICD side.
Aditya Mongia
Okay. The next question that I had was that as in both of your peers are talking about total logistics solutions, both Adani ports or logistics, whether you want to think through it or con-calls. Now, do we see-through this becoming a trend and do we need to be investing in this line of work or do you think that just doing the end-to-end rail transportation would work fine as a business model over-time.
Unidentified Speaker
So we’ve been doing, say, inland end-to-end. We’ve been providing railroad and ICD under one entity since the beginning of operations. There were some people who only were rail operators, some were only terminal operators. So we’ve had such philosophy, but we’re not venturing into the port side or into the forwarding side, anything like that. But the domestic side is there. And then with Snowman also domestic distribution even on the dry side is happening. And just more into that aspect of end-to-end?
Aditya Mongia
Understood. Maybe just a final question over here. I think you kind of talked about it, but is there any reversal of trend happening in favor of road because of any connectivity and that is starting to hurt rail operators? Is are there any instances of customer shifting away from rain that you can think.
Unidentified Speaker
We haven’t really seen anything on that front.
Aditya Mongia
Got that. Those are my questions. Thanks a lot and all the very best to you.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Prashant Kale from Star Capital. Please go-ahead.
Prashant Kale
Sir, my question is about further increasing stake in Snowman La Logistics. Do we have any plan to acquire the Snowman logistics and delist it in the future.
Unidentified Speaker
In did not understand the question.
Prashant Kale
So now we are holding 51% 50 more than 50% of the logistics. So do we have any plan to further increase the stake in snowman logistics and delease the company in future?
Unidentified Speaker
No, we aren’t thinking along those lines. So no we did plan to increase our stake. Our first target was to cross 50% by March, which we’ve done now. So we’ll evaluate after some time.
Prashant Kale
Okay. So there is no plan to increase it further.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah.
Prashant Kale
Okay, thanks. That answers my question. Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from Nuvama Institutional Equities. Please go-ahead.
Achal Lohade
Yeah. Thank you for the follow-up opportunity, sir. If you could help us understand what has been the OCF for nine months cash-flow from operations and what is the capex number.
Unidentified Speaker
Nine months the ticket has been 20 crores and what was your other.
Achal Lohade
Sorry, I’m not able to hear you such clearly. Are you talking about snowman or you talking about district?
Unidentified Speaker
The capex said there is INR20 crores for nine months and the we don’t have it handy right now, just check and is within the next few minutes?
Achal Lohade
Understood. And what is the capex we should work with for current year and next year in the rail business, rail plus CFS to any which way? I don’t think we’ll talk about capex, but for the rail piece? Hello.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah, we lost the void for a second. Can you just repeat your question?
Achal Lohade
Yeah. Rail business, what is the capex we should build-in for FY ’25 and ’26?
Unidentified Speaker
So the two new terminals that talking about, it’s the same you’re saying maybe about INR250 crores, INR250 crores to INR300 crores total when these are developed. Also when it comes in, that will be another INR50 crore INR60 crores. Other than that, there’ll be probably capex of about INR30 crores next year, INR30 crores to INR40 crores for the next two years. This is on warehouse capacity and equipment replacement.
Achal Lohade
So you mean basically INR30 crores kind of maintenance capex plus greenfield INR250 to INR300 crores for three terminals plus INR50 crore to INR60 crore if and when Jaipur resolves. Have I understood right?
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah.
Achal Lohade
Got it. And if you could just give us the mix in terms of NCR, and Uttrakan and NCR Punjab and mix for us.
Unidentified Speaker
We aren’t sharing terminal wise actually terminal wise numbers we aren’t getting into.
Achal Lohade
Understood. And just one more question in terms of the pricing scenario, are you seeing any element of change in terms of pricing scenario in all three markets NCR, Punjab.
Unidentified Speaker
And like we mentioned, even the other places there is discounting, but not to that extent so no pricing improvement anywhere, but most of our say, 80% or more of our business is stable pricing and the operating cash flows is INR250 crores for nine months.
Achal Lohade
INR250 crore OCA for nine months, right?
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah.
Achal Lohade
Wonderful. Sorry, if you could just point out what has been the extent of discounting in Ludhiana market?
Unidentified Speaker
It’s commodity specific, weight specific volume specific. So it’s hard to get.
Achal Lohade
Would that be like 10%, 12%? Would that be like 4%, 5% any range?
Unidentified Speaker
Ranging from 5% to 15%?
Achal Lohade
Understood. Understood. All right, sir. Thank you. Wish you all the best.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. Participants that have missed out due to time constraint can reach-out to the management, NSGA for Gateway and Snowman Logistics for any further information. With that, we concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.