SBI LIFE INSURANCE CO LTD (NSE: SBILIFE) Q2 2025 Earnings Call dated Oct. 23, 2024
Corporate Participants:
Amit Jhingran — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Sangramjit Sarangi — President & Chief Financial Officer
Abhijit Gulanikar — President, Business Strategy
Analysts:
Avinash Singh — Analyst
Nishchint Chawathe — Analyst
Shreya Shivani — Analyst
Supratim Datta — Analyst
Manas Agarwal — Analyst
Madhukar Ladha — Analyst
Sanketh Godha — Analyst
Aditi Joshi — Analyst
Dipanjan Ghosh — Analyst
Nidesh — Analyst
Harshit Toshniwal — Analyst
Rishi Jhunjhunwala — Analyst
Subramanian Iyer — Analyst
Raghvesh — Analyst
Prayesh Jain — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the SBI Life Insurance Company Q2 FY ’25 Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Jhingran, Managing Director and CEO. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Amit Jhingran — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Good evening, everyone. We are happy to welcome you all to the results update call of SBI Life Insurance for half year ended September 30, 2024. We appreciate and thank you wholeheartedly for your time for analyzing our results and attending our earnings call. Update on our financial results can also be assessed on our website as well as on the websites of both the stock exchanges. Along with me Mr. Sangramjit Sarangi, President and CFO; Mr. Abhijit Gulanikar, President, Business Strategy; Mr. Subhendu Bal, Chief Actuary and Chief Risk Officer; Mr. Prithesh Chaubey, Appointed Actuary; and Ms. Smita Verma, SVP, Finance and Investor Relations are present here on the call.
I am pleased to share that we have seen progress in several key areas as compared to previous corresponding periods demonstrating the strength and dedication of our team work. We are building a strong base for the year ahead by improving the Banca and Agency productivity levels, onboarding new agents and digital initiatives. This will ensure that in the long run, the company meets its goal. In response to the evolving needs of our customers, we have taken significant steps to enhance our product offerings. Over the past period, we successfully relaunched 15 existing products ensuring they align with the regulatory requirement, current market trends and customer expectations.
In addition to our relaunch efforts, we introduced nine new products that cater to the emerging needs of our customers, five unit linked insurance products, two term insurance products, one endowment product, etc. Further in its endeavor to provide retirement solutions to the company has also launched annuity product. As of today, the company has 24 products in its portfolio. These new offerings reflect our commitment to proactive approach to addressing the changing landscape of customer and regulatory requirements. By leveraging insights from the market research and customer interactions, we developed these products to provide greater flexibility, improved protection and tailored solutions.
While we have experienced slower growth in premium numbers than anticipated due to the high base from last year, we are optimistic that our new product launches and approach in reaching out to the customers will drive growth moving forward. Our focus on adapting to customer needs underscores our dedication to delivering value and security. We believe these initiatives not only strengthen our portfolio, but also reinforce our position as a trusted partner in the insurance industry. Moving forward, we remain committed to continuously assessing and refining our offerings ensuring that we are well-equipped to meet the dynamic demands of our customers. We recognize that staying attuned to customer preferences and market trends is essential for our continuous success.
Now let me give you some key highlights for this half year ended September 30, 2024. New business premium stands at INR157.3 billion and maintains private market leadership with share of 21.3%. Individual new business premium stands at INR114.9 billion with a growth of 13% and private market share of 25.7%. Gross written premium stands at INR359.9 billion, a growth of 7%. Protection new business premium stands at INR17.2 billion. Profit after tax stands at INR10.5 billion with a strong growth of 38% over corresponding period of last year. Value of new business stands at INR24.2 billion. Value of new business margin stands at 26.8% for period ended September 30, 2024. Embedded value stands at INR660.7 billion registering a growth of 29% over INR512.6 billion in last period.
Our assets under management stands at INR4.39 trillion with a growth of [Technical Issues].
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, the line for the management seems to be disconnected. Please hold while we reconnect. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for patiently holding. The management has reconnected. Please go ahead, sir.
Amit Jhingran — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
I’m sorry the call the — probably the call dropped and I was explaining about the solvency ratio. The solvency ratio is at 2.04 as against the regulatory requirement of 1.50. Now I will update you on each of the key parameters in detail. Individual new business has grown to INR114.9 billion with a growth of 13% over last period. Single premium contribution is 33% of individual new business premium. If we exclude the annuity business, single premium contribution is at 17% of individual business. The company’s private market share stands at 25.7% and industry market share stands at 15.5%.
On individual rated new business premium, IRP, we stand at INR81.0 billion with a growth of 15% over last period and maintain our leadership position with private market share of 22.7% and total market share of 15.4%. The company’s two-year CAGR of individual rated new business premium stands at 16% outpacing the industry CAGR of 14%. This is on backdrop of a consistent growth in performance, which company delivered year-on-year. We have witnessed some headwinds in group business, particularly with our group savings product due to unsustainable rates offered by few in the market. Group new business premium stands at INR42.4 billion with contribution of 27% in new business premium.
Having said that, we have collected total new business premium of INR157.3 billion. The company’s private market share stands at 21.3% and total market share stands at 8.3% on the new business premium parameter. Renewal premium grew by 16% to INR202.6 billion, which accounts for 56% of the gross written premium. To sum-up, gross written premium stands at INR359.9 billion with a growth of 7% over corresponding previous period. In terms of APE, premium stands at INR90.3 billion registering a growth of 9%. Out of this, individual APE stands at INR82.6 billion with a growth of 16%.
During the half year ended September 30, 2024, total 9.87 lakh new policies were issued. Number of lives covered during the half year ended September 30, 2024 is 11 million. The growth in sum assured serves as a positive indicator of consumer confidence and the increasing awareness of the importance of financial protection. This upward trend reflects a shifting mindset among individuals who recognize the need for comprehensive coverage to safeguard their future. Individual new business sum assured registered a growth of 20% over corresponding previous period. Further, as we continue to innovate and customize our offerings to meet evolving needs and demands, we anticipate growth in the upcoming period. This is already evident in our quarterly growth of individual new business sum assured, which stands at 51%.
Let me give you details about the product mix. As on September 30, 2024, our guaranteed non-PAR saving products are contributing 19% on individual APE basis. Individual unit new business premium is at INR70.4 billion with a growth of 19% over corresponding last year and it constitutes 61% of individual new business premium. The growth in ULIP can be attributed to the positive movement in equity markets and evolving customer preferences. This trend is evident across the industry as more customers seek products that blend investment opportunities with protection.
Individual protection new business premium is at INR3.2 billion. Individual protection business for Q2 FY ’25 has grown 15% on NVP basis as compared to-Q1 FY ’25. Group protection new business premium stands at INR13.9 billion. Credit life new business premium has grown by 3% and stands at INR10.5 billion. Protection business contributes 8% of APE and stands at INR8 billion. Retirement plans assists customer in building a substantial corpus of funds to maintain the desired lifestyle and manage expenses in their golden years. Total annuity and pension new business underwritten by the company is INR32.8 billion.
Now moving to update on distribution partners. With the strength of more than 58,000 CIFs, the State Bank of India and RRB’s Bancassurance business contributes a share of 58% on total APE basis and on individual APE basis, it stands at INR50.9 billion with a growth of 7%. SBI branch productivity on individual APE terms stands at INR4.3 million for the period and registered a growth of 8%. In the first half of the year, we witnessed slower growth in our Bancassurance channel as we are prioritizing on the development of robust digital platforms and advanced data analytics with a clear goal to reinvigorate the business model and enabling the Bancassurance channel to better service specific customer needs, both in personal and digital.
While this may result in a temporary slowdown, we view the phase as a strategic investment for future. The focus will be on customer-initiated journeys on Yono platform of the State Bank of India with little or no manual intervention. By enhancing these capabilities, we are laying the groundwork for sustainable growth and improved customer engagement in the long run. With enhanced focus on Agency channel and strategic launch of Agency 2.0, we have witnessed improvement in agent activation, Agency channel productivity and onboarding of new agents and better collaboration between agents.
Our agent productivity for the period stands at INR2.6 lakhs on individual NBP terms registering a growth of 21% over corresponding previous period. Agency registered new business premium growth of 14% over corresponding previous period and contributes 23%. Agency channel individual APE showed a growth of 36% over last period and stands at INR27.9 billion. As on September 30, 2024, the total number of agents working for the company stand at 2,64,058, a growth of 11% over previous period. During the half year ended, the company added more than 50,000 agents, a fair mix of both urban and rural areas. The share of Agency channel in individual rated premium has increased from 29% in previous period to 33% in current period.
During the half year ended September 30, 2024, other channels that comprise of direct channel, corporate agents, brokers, online, web aggregators, etc, grew by 28% in terms of individual new business premium. Linked business through other channels registered a growth of 59% on APE basis. We are investing in building our online business channel. Individual rated premium through these channel has grown by 73% for the current period as compared to the previous period. Last year — and protection business through these channel on IRP terms grew by 10% as compared to previous period. We are focused to strike optimum balance among various distribution channels and we expect to grow by leveraging these multiple drivers and further strengthen our distribution network.
Coming to updates on profitability, the company’s profit after tax for the half year ended September 30, 2024 stands at INR10.5 billion with a robust growth of 38% as compared to previous period. Our solvency margin remained strong at 204% as against regulatory requirement of 150%. Value of new business stands at INR24.2 billion with a growth of 2%. VoNB margin stands at 26.8% for the half year ended September ’24. The shift in VoNB is mainly on account of increase in share of unit business as compared to previous period. Embedded value stands at INR660.7 billion, a growth of 29% over previous period. Embedded value operating profit stands at INR54.4 billion and operating return on embedded value is 19.5%.
Coming to operational efficiencies, opex ratio stands at 5.8% and total cost ratio stands at 10.6% for the half year ended September 30. With respect to persistency of individual regular premium, 13th month persistency stands at 86.4%, an improvement of 98 basis points and 61st month persistency stands at 61.9%, an improvement of 438 basis points. As mentioned in my opening remarks, assets under management stands at INR4.39 trillion as at September 30 having grown at a rate of 27% over corresponding period. Debt claim settlement ratio stands at 99.2%. The company has registered an improvement of 68 basis points over last year.
An unwavering commitment to our customer-centric approach remains at the heart of everything we do. Our misselling ratio stands at 0.03%, which is one of the lowest in the industry. Digitization is transforming the life insurance industry enabling us to deliver enhanced services and a more seamless experience for our customers. As embrace this in digital transformation, we remain committed to innovation and excellence ensuring that we stay ahead in an increasingly competitive landscape. The company continues efficient usage of technology for simplification of processes with 99% of individual proposals being submitted digitally. 44% of individual proposals are processed through automated underwriting. We have aligned our business strategies with IRDAI vision and other regulatory initiatives emphasizing the importance of customer empowerment in driving growth of the industry.
To conclude, by fostering a culture of resilience and continuous improvement supported by our multi-distribution network and dedicated team, we are confidently positioned for the future. Our commitment to exceptional customer service strengthens client relationships and reinforces our status as a trusted leader in the market. With a focus on long-term sustainable and profitable growth, we aim to create lasting value for our customers, shareholders and communities paving the way for a prosperous future together.
Thank you all. And now we are happy to take any questions that you may have.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Avinash Singh from Emkay Global. Please go ahead.
Avinash Singh
Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity. Two questions. First one broadly on the growth outlook. We heard you outlining your priorities. Now if we see the reality, I mean, even in the first half, 15% retail APE growth has broadly come. The challenges were partly also on the group side and within retail within your bank SBI and you sort of suggested some kind of a strategic shift you are doing within that channel. Now in this backdrop, I mean, the reality of what is happening in the group saving market or the pricing pressure on GTI that all affecting our credit life depending upon offtake of loans entirely affecting the group market, your group business and on the retail side, what you are sort of doing within bank. So now how do you see the growth panning out? And also we have this new surrender has led some bit of disruption and also over the festive months. So a lot of externalities as well.
How do you see sort of a growth panning out in H2? And within bank, I mean, how it will save this transition and how long it this sale will last? I mean, when can we expect sort of a growth to ramp-up within bank also? So a broader sort of your commentary around growth. And second, again, related to the margin, now ULIP of course has grown and thankfully for you also non-PAR has grown and that is where the margin had come relatively better. But again, the credit life has been slower, probably group term insurance, pricing seeing some pressure and now you have this surrender resolution. So how do you sort of in this backdrop with changing sort of your product distribution mix and growth trajectory, how do you see that margin to be coming out? So these are my two questions. Thank you.
Amit Jhingran
Yeah. So talking of the growth first, we have grown in the first half on IRP basis at the rate of 15%. And when you compare our base for the last year and the industry base for the last year, this 15% growth has come on a much higher base. If you look at the two-year CAGR, we are better placed than the industry. Talking of the bank, we are trying to shift the business from — to the digital channel where the customer will be initiating the journey on the Yono platform itself and that shift is creating this temporary kind of split, but we are very sure that the — this growth will return. Again, Bancassurance and particularly SBI is providing the bulk of the business to the company and this growth again is coming on a very high base. So we must be cognizant of that fact. Regarding the future, we are sure that we will be able to maintain and maybe improve on this 15% growth. So for the entire year, we look forward to a 15% to 17% kind of growth on IRP basis.
Talking of margin, you have seen that our margin are the best in the industry and you are already talking about the product mix and that is helping the company. In the recent past, we have launched two new products in the protection segment, which offer higher margins. And one of these products is a protection product for HNI individuals. And there the product is very competitive when compared to the industry rates and we expect good growth in — good numbers in that. In the Banca channel also, we have launched a protection product, which is based on the data analytics and it is kind of a pre-approved auto underwritten kind of product. And in the first month itself, we have seen more than 33,000 policies being sold on the Yono channel initiated by the customer inside. So going forward, we expect that the protection numbers will be better and they will affect — they will positively affect our margin also.
Avinash Singh
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of from Nishchint Chawathe from Kotak Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Nishchint Chawathe
Hi, thanks for taking my question. Look, first of all, if I look at the business trends on a sequential basis, have you seen margin changing at a product level, which means that either U:IP margins going up or down on a sequential basis or non-PAR margins going up or down on a sequential basis?
Amit Jhingran
See, this is the timing issue. So some point in time that when you try to optimize the value both for the customer and for the shareholders in terms of the margin, we do try to reflect the reality of the market. So at some point in time, if you see the last quarter, we have passed on the interest rate. We have not repriced pass-on, so there was margin coming — pressure coming on the non-PAR. And last month, we have repriced this — our non-PAR products duly and hence, we’ll see some improvement coming on the margin side. So point I’m trying to make is that in the business, we try to optimize the value for both the customer and shareholder. In this context, you will see there will be some change in the line of business margin, but not significant on that.
Nishchint Chawathe
Sure. So what you’re essentially trying to say is that non-APR margins were probably a little lower in second quarter. I think is that what you’re trying to say.
Amit Jhingran
No. I think the first quarter was slightly lower. Second quarter is higher and we’re expecting that in the Q3, it will be even better from the current level.
Nishchint Chawathe
Got it. Just another data was I think essentially on operating variance and change in assumptions, EV walk and VoNB walk, if you could just kind of fill out the components.
Sangramjit Sarangi
So see in — first of all, it has no change in assumptions. So if you look at the VoNB work since we are doing from the last September to this September, there is impact coming from. This impact is only what assumption we make the change in the March. There is no change on other aspects. Come to the EV was, there is no change in assumption, we are looking to kind of comparing from the March till September and you see there is the operating variance coming from. And just to clarify, this operating variance is on account of positive variance coming on account of expenses, modality and persistency. There is no offsetting impact from us. Each and every variance is giving a positive contribution to this. Like we are always mentioning that we follow a sustainable approach in long-term and always we get a parity where variance all the component on this.
Nishchint Chawathe
And economic assumption between debt and equity, which is a fairly large number for you this quarter.
Sangramjit Sarangi
So we don’t disclose basically, but we see this component of the economic moment in the market. So you see the equity has grown up around 13% to 14% in the period of six months. The bond has gone down by 30 basis points. So most of the contribution is coming mainly on account of equity side as well.
Nishchint Chawathe
Sure. And just one last qualitative question is on the Agency business, you reported almost a 25% odd growth on the Agency side. So how should we kind of think about this going forward and what gives you confidence on sustaining such high growth rate?
Amit Jhingran
So we are consciously driving our Agency business. And as you must have heard in my initial remarks, we started a program called Agency 2.0 at the company level where the focus is on improving not only our physical infrastructure that is the number of branches, but also the number of active agents, the agent productivity, the agent activity per frontline manager. So there are several initiatives we are taking on the Agency side to push the Agency business further. And we are happy to note that the first half year, our growth on IRP basis in Agency is 33%, which exhibits that our efforts are paying dividend and we expect to continue this Agency enhancement program for the full year and in the medium-term also.
Nishchint Chawathe
And are you facing any pushback or resistance from agents as we implement the new the surrender value guidelines where you probably share some part of the burden with them?
Amit Jhingran
No. So we have not changed our commission structure at all unlike many players in the industry. And in fact, on surrender value front, our surrender values earlier also were much better than the industry level and the new guidelines have affected us as a company in the least. So as such, there is not much effect of surrender value. Our product mix also, if you see, it is very heavily tilted towards ULIP where again there is no effect of surrender value.
Nishchint Chawathe
Got it. Thank you very much and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shreya Shivani from CLSA. Please go ahead.
Shreya Shivani
Thank you for the opportunity. My question is on the protection segment. So last quarter itself, we had mentioned about launching a new product on the Yono app and an HNI product from August. So in spite of that, the growth is not very strong for the quarter. Is it purely a function of that digital transformation happening in the Yono side or if you could give some color on how has the uptick been on that product, given that it’s been around for two months, two, three months at least? And sir, on the second question is on the topic of surrender value itself. So you had mentioned last time that if at all, whatever impact there is from surrender value, maybe up to 50 bps for us. So is it fair to say that the 26.8% VoNB margin that we are at right now will decline towards only 6.3 in the second half and all keeping everything else constant that is? So some color on that would be helpful. Thank you.
Amit Jhingran
Okay. So since you talked about the production guidance we gave it last time. Unfortunately, the product that I referred to in the last call were a bit delayed and were launched only in the middle of September. So in fact, the numbers for the September quarter, the effect of the new product launches could not be captured. As I told you that in the last one month, we have sold around 30,000 policies, more than 33,000 policies on the Yono platform that product I was talking about. So that number will be reflected in the current quarter. So that is — and that is what is making us give the guidance of higher protection percentage in the third quarter of the year.
Shreya Shivani
Got it. Got it. Yeah.
Amit Jhingran
And talking of surrender value, as I already explained, we as a company are the least affected by the surrender guidelines. And in line with the IRDAI’s prescription, I think we were the first company to start relaunching our products from the middle of September itself instead of waiting for the quarter end because we found that these steps, these guidelines are in the interest of the customer and we at SBI Life value the customer centricity as the most. So the effect of the same on the margin, we don’t foresee any effect on the margin of the company and we continue to stick to, say, 26% to 27% kind of margin for the full year also.
Shreya Shivani
Sure, sir. And one follow-up on that bit. You spoke about you launched your products in September itself. So any color you can give us around how has been the offtake of the new surrender value products to the customers? Are customers finding it more attractive? Are distributors finding this one easier to sell because it favors the customers. Something on that line?
Sangramjit Sarangi
When the sales pitch happen, the surrender value is never talked. Let us be honest, you talk to customer that you have to pay premium for seven years, 10 years, 12 years. So surrender value is in rare cases, if customer reaches operation only then surrender value discussions happen. So you would not have any color from the customer of surrender value acceptance obviously. Eventually customer will benefit from the new regulation. There is no doubt about that. But in the sales conversation, surrender is not the topic that is discussed when the sales [Indecipherable].
Amit Jhingran
If you are launching a new product for a long-term, say, 15, 20 years, you don’t tell the customer that you come and get surrendered in the first year itself.
Shreya Shivani
Correct. Okay. That makes sense. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Supratim Datta from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Supratim Datta
Hi, thanks for the opportunity. I have two questions and both are on the growth side. So I wanted to understand the strategy that you’re taking within the bank channel a bit more. So one, in the previous quarter, you have indicated that there is a lot of opportunity still to penetrate within the bank branches. Now I wanted to understand if there is still so much opportunity within the bank branches? Why are you looking at Yono or the digital platform as a key source of growth going forward? So that’s my one reason why the pivot towards Yono now. And the second one was on the self track business, we have seen aggregators also move from a self track model to an assisted model when it comes to growth through digital channels. Now I wanted to understand that would you be supporting the Yono channel with your own direct sales team or how would you — once it reaches a certain size, how do you plan to drive growth after that? So those were my two questions. Thank you.
Amit Jhingran
So Yono, State Bank of India is developing Yono as a marketplace also. I mean, it is already working towards launching Yono 2.0 with very enhanced features. So our initiation of customer initiated transactions for the insurance on the Yono platform is also a step in that direction only where we will be offering our products on the Yono marketplace. Having said that, the opportunities you were talking about in the State Bank, you know that our penetration in State Bank account is only around 2% of the actual coverable accounts. So the opportunities remain huge. And we are developing this Yono channel as an eye on the digital transaction and digital is the future in coming years. So we want to initiate that journey in the first half from the very start itself.
Supratim Datta
Got it, sir. That’s very helpful. Sir, just one last question. So if I look at what product development which has happened, a lot of the product developments that happened are on the protection side or non-PAR side or annuity side. Now typically in the bank, your model is a bit different wherein you don’t have your own people in the branches. So wanted to understand and simply these are products which are more difficult to sell. So how are you bridging this gap? Are you providing more education to the branch reps or how are you incentivizing the branch reps to sell these new policies or motivating them to sell these new policies where I understand there is no incentives?
Amit Jhingran
So yes, you are right that we don’t have our employees at the bank who do the same. The entire Banca sales is being done by what we call certified insurance felicitatives [Phonetic], the CIFs. For that, they have to pass examination and then only they are certified as CIF. To these CIFs, we provide regular training about all our products, including all the products that are being newly launched, be it ULIP, be it non-PAR or PAR product. As far as the protection product that I was talking about that is a product which is offered through Yono platform to the pre-selected customer based on the data analytics. The bank is running a lot of data scrubbing based on the customer balances, customer income level and his age profile, etc. Based on that, this product is being offered on selective basis to the customers. And this product sales are the customer-oriented itself, which are I will say that this is a three click kind of product offered to the selected customers. So the leads are going — the offer is going to the Yono customer on his Yono app itself and they are initiating their journey. The role that the branches will play here is making the customer aware that this product is available on your Yono app itself.
Supratim Datta
Got it. Okay. And on the motivation front, is there something that you’re going to motivate for branch reps?
Amit Jhingran
No. So that we have made very clear from the very start that the individual incentives to motivate staff was stopped by Reserve Bank of India since 2017 itself and there is no incentive for any of the bank employee to sell the insurance.
Supratim Datta
Got it. And last question. So you have the HNI protection product. I just wanted to understand what is the contribution of that to your overall protection you see and how are you selling that? Are you clapping that with your ULIP product or how is that [Indecipherable]? If you could give some color on that product, that would be helpful.
Amit Jhingran
So this product has very recently been launched and this is again a product with a minimum sum assured of INR2 crore. And to tell you the actual sales experience, the product has been very recently launched. So I will not be able to comment on actual sales experience, maybe next quarter we can talk about the numbers and everything, but we have trained our agency force as well as the bank CIFs about this product and we hope to see good numbers because this I assure is a very competitive kind of product when compared to the protection plans being offered by other companies.
Supratim Datta
Got it. And is it being clubbed with the ULIP product or is it different sold separately?
Amit Jhingran
So I mean, it is not clubbed as such, but yes, the ULIP customers with good premium, it can be a good option. I will not say that it is being clubbed, but it may be offered to those customers also.
Supratim Datta
Got it. Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manas Agarwal from Sanford C. Bernstein. Please go ahead.
Manas Agarwal
Hi, sir. Sorry to harp on this again. Some things are not making sense, so I’ll ask it in a different way. Has there been any change in either channel dynamics with SBI? I’ll lay the context before you answer. ULIP is doing very well for the market and you guys are the leader in that. Banca channel is very skewed towards ULIP. 2Q and 3Q is seasonally strong for Banca for us historically. So all of that does not tie in with the fact that our growth in the Banca channel is not doing well. Your comment on investing in the digital sales on the Banca side is an incremental effort. I don’t understand why that should harm your BAU sales. So is there any change in how SBI is approaching SBI Life sales? That’s the question.
Amit Jhingran
So if you are talking about any harm to our sales, I don’t see any harm. We have grown. Only thing is that growth has come down from, say, 15%, 18% kind of growth that we had last year to 9% this year. So as such, there is no harm. And you have to mind that this 9% growth is coming on a very high base. So the sales are there and there is no change in dynamics between SBI Life and SBI. We continue to be the sole company being offered by SBI to its customers. And we don’t foresee any change in near future in that dynamics.
Manas Agarwal
Understood. And anything why your BAU sales are…
Operator
Hello?
Manas Agarwal
Yeah. Can you come back again please?
Abhijit Gulanikar
On the second part of the question, your investment in digital sales in the Banca channel, why would they affect the BAU sales is the question.
Amit Jhingran
It is definitely not affecting. The 9% growth is coming on from that channel and those partners only. The digital initiative is very recently launched. What I’m saying is that going forward, the growth from this channel will be in addition to whatever is being sold from the branches and the CIFs. But we are investing in that channel and we expect good numbers going forward.
Manas Agarwal
Understood, sir. Thank you. I’ll take this offline.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Madhukar Ladha from Nuvama Wealth. Please go ahead.
Madhukar Ladha
Hi, good evening. I mean, again on the same point actually. So what exactly are you doing in the SBI channel because I think you mentioned that you’re trying to move that channel into digital. Does that mean that you’re trying to also change the way a walk in customer buys insurance from you? And is that what is impacting your sales? So I think that has not come out clearly as to how the digital channel is actually impacting your overall sales from the SBI channel. So maybe if you can elaborate on that a little bit, that would be useful. And second, you mentioned that your VoNB margins will be in the range of 26% to 27% for the full year. In the first half, you’re already at 26.8%. I understand that there is some negative — there may be some negative impact because of surrender value changes, but that you are yourself also saying that will be minimal, but shouldn’t then with operating leverage the margin then for the year should be higher than the current number? That’s my second question. So yeah, so these would be my two questions right now.
Sangramjit Sarangi
So I think if you’re referring to the operating leverage, we have already accounted for in our assumptions, correct. So what are you saying that currently we hold up the margin of 26.8%. And depending on how the business will grow over the period because we have to also optimize the VoNB rather on the margin perspective. And in order to optimize the VoNB, we need to ensure that there is appropriate growth in APE term is coming out. And in that context, we are saying that our margin might be range between 26% to 27%. This is the lower side that we are looking into. There is always upside on the side and that long-term guidance, we are always saying that is to maintain the margin of 28%. But I’m saying since we are sitting today at 26.8%, we have to also optimize the APE growth. And in that context, there is possibility this margin will be — margin will be range bound. Nothing else.
Madhukar Ladha
Just a follow-up on that. So then what would be sort of your VoNB growth target like in terms of optimizing then instead of a margin target maybe it’s better to talk in terms of a VoNB target for the year.
Sangramjit Sarangi
It will be commensurate to the APE growth. So if you are — if APE growth is happening around 15% to 16%, you’re expecting 15% to 17% target, I think VoNB growth will be in range of 12% to 15% kind of things.
Madhukar Ladha
Got it. Understood. And then on the sales in the SBI channel, but first question, yeah.
Amit Jhingran
Yeah. So I already explained that we are trying to develop this digital channel where the SBI customer is able to initiate the insurance per sales journey on the Yono platform itself. And the role of CIFs and the branches will continue and the customer base of SBI will be a captive kind of base for SBI Life also going forward too. There is no impact as of now, but in future, when we are able to develop this channel fully, there will be a positive impact on the number.
Madhukar Ladha
And so at the branch level, then for physical walk-ins or that — the way the business is happening right now, that has not changed at all. Is that understanding correct?
Sangramjit Sarangi
Yeah, Madhukar, you’re absolutely right. See, SBI, the way the sales is being happening today will continue. The CIFs will sell on behalf of SBI. As MD said, the digital penetration is also another way of looking at the sales, which SBI is looking very strongly and that is why they have developed the Yono. Now they are venturing into Yono 2.0 that will help definitely to penetrate the customer base of digital-savvy customers. So it will be a kind of a digital channel within the SBI channel, which we expect that both will flourish and we expect that the growth is today in the 7% growth on a higher base. So we’ll see how it will develop in the next six months or so, but this is the best opportunity in SBI who are actually tech-savvy for to buy the insurance products.
Amit Jhingran
Many of these tech-savvy customers who are digitally enabled and who are using Internet banking and Yono platform, they are not even visiting the branches. So this will be — that is why we said that it will be having a positive impact once we are able to develop it.
Madhukar Ladha
Understood. Got it. And just finally, historically we’ve sort of done quite well on growth. And despite — and year-after year, we’ve done quite well. We know that penetration within SBI also remained low and then — but you pointed out a high base and especially also if you look at the last two months, the VoNB — sorry, the APE numbers don’t sort of add up or are a little weak, right? So we do expect that to change. Anything specific that has played out over the last two months that you would like to comment on in the SBI channel?
Amit Jhingran
Madhukar, there is no change at all of the strategy in SBI is concerned. As already said, the last year base was quite high for us. So we were actually growing at 18% and second quarter was also significantly high, almost 30% plus for us as compared to the industry. And Banca contributes the maximum for us. So that is the reason the base effect has changed this year. And these initiatives which we have taken now, we think that it will come back to the mainstream. But last year we grew by 12% in SBI. So we expect that similar kind of numbers in this year also.
Madhukar Ladha
Understood. Got it. Thank you. All the best.
Amit Jhingran
Thank you.
Operator
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Sanketh Godha
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, again, sorry to ask the question on bank, but just the growth for half is 7% is from the bank channel. Do you expect the growth from State Bank of India to be in teens at least in the current year given the current growth trajectory and probably we will have a little favorable base in fourth quarter. So just wanted to understand how you are looking from a full year perspective the growth to play out? And accordingly, you can also give us a guidance how Agency will do going ahead? Because that number is pretty strong, 36%. So how do you expect this number to play out in numbers? And the second thing is basically we just wanted to check whether in non-PAR products, have you made any IRR change to just accommodate higher surrender value. You said that you did not change any in commission, but any IRR meaningful change you have made just to accommodate surrender related impact on the non-PAR business? Yeah.
Sangramjit Sarangi
I will take the last question first and then pass on to MD sir to comment on that. I think non-PAR, we do reprice the product and as a part of continuous pricing, we pass on the yield reduction to the customer because yield is going down and we have repriced. So all the non-PAR product it has been repriced and launched in month of August. We do ensure the part is in compliance with the regulation in terms of the surrender value. So surrender value in our product is in annual revision. As we keep mentioning earlier as well that our surrender variable even before regulation is much higher than our peers. And when we change the product to comply with things, there is not much impact on the surrender value, except in the year one where we are — earlier regulations don’t allow any. Most of the impact in our cylinder value coming in year one. And so to that extent, I can say that the repricing do take care of — at most care of the fall in interest rate and to some extent might be on the surrender value, but not entirely we passing into the impact of cylinder value to the customer because it is not beneficiary to the purpose of regulation to bring the surrender. If you’re going to reduce this thing, then this purpose gets defeated. So most of the repricing is done on account of fall in interest rate. Some parts here and there might be passed on to the customer on account of surrender value.
Sanketh Godha
Got it, sir. Perfect. On the…
Sangramjit Sarangi
So on the agency, I think MD already mentioned that we have grown at 33% in first half and we expect similar kind of growth, 30% kind of growth for the second half also. And in Banca, we should expect high single-digit or 10% kind of growth in the…
Amit Jhingran
So on IRP basis, in the first half in Banca, we have grown by 9% and you are aware that October, November, December for the Banca channel for SBI Life has always been very strong. So we have a very high base out there. So I expect that the growth in the current quarter will also reach somewhere around 9% only.
Sanketh Godha
Okay. Got it. So basically sir, the simple point is that 13% odd in agency and 10% is in the Banca is the most likely number to be achieved for the full year?
Amit Jhingran
Yes, we agree with that.
Sanketh Godha
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aditi Joshi from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Aditi Joshi
Yeah. Thanks for taking my questions. And really the first question is actually related to the product mix. Just some details will be helpful. And firstly, why the NET product was slightly weaker in the second quarter? And also can you explain as in especially related to the participating products, we saw a very strong growth in the second quarter. So just from a product proposition perspective, what is attractive to the customer and how are you trying to sell it because just very strong growth in that particular segment. And just a related question is that if you are able to provide some mix outlook for the second half will be helpful. And just one clarification indeed, if I can ask that. On the Yono, is it just select products that are giving caption especially on the protection side because as you said that when the customer walks in, the employees in the banks or CIFs, they ask customers to check the app and buy the product. Is it my understanding correct? Thanks so much.
Amit Jhingran
So regarding the Yono product, what I said is that this protection product that we have launched in particular, that is a pre-approved kind of product and this offer is going to select customers based on our data analytics. The offer is going to Yono apps of these particular customers. In addition to that, the concerned branches are also aware about the offer to these customers. And when these customers visit the branches, the staff makes them aware that this offer is available to you. So they can initiate the journey and complete the product. Yeah.
Abhijit Gulanikar
On the annuity side, we had some small de-growth in the current quarter, but I think there will be — we don’t expect that to be the guidance for full year. We would expect the annuity growth to come back. That market is large and we would want to top that market. On PAR, I think the base is very small. And on that small base with some focus, we’ve had substantial increase in quarter two. Our new APR products will be launched after product repricing very soon. One or two are already there. One is already there and remaining will be launched very soon. And we would expect — PAR is a small component. Our main growth for traditional we would expect from protection and focus will also be non-PAR.
Aditi Joshi
Okay, sure. And any guidance on the — how product mix will decline in the second half?
Amit Jhingran
No, we will continue to maintain our stand of 60/40. So that is what we have maintained and we will continue to do that. So as Abhijit said, so our non-par, protection and PAR will continue to be part of 40% and 60% will be in the ULIP.
Aditi Joshi
Okay, sir. Got it. Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dipanjan Ghosh from Citi. Please go ahead.
Dipanjan Ghosh
Hi, sir, good evening. Just two questions from my side. First, can you shed some color on your growth across the non-SBI Banca partnerships? And do you see traction in some of these channels or your counter share across those channels? And second, while we have seen improvement in persistency across most of the buckets from 1H or 2Q. I just want to get some color on, is it more a function of that book product mix or are we seeing improvement in persistency across each of the product? So if you can give some color on the product level persistency trends?
Sangramjit Sarangi
Persistency, I think it’s a both combination of both. So one is the product mix changes and other is the work that we try to do. We do a lot of investment in term of the — as a sales register itself to ensure that product — customer is buying their proper forward, not pushing any particular product category. We do have taken several initiatives at the company level both from the branches to the corporate label to ensure that we should have a continuous connect with the customer, try to understand their pain point and try to address those challenges. I think that both are helping us to improve the persistency and there is a kind of improvement in persistency is being observed at most of the cohort at this point in time. And we hope this will be continued in future as well.
Abhijit Gulanikar
So on the non-Banca partners, there is mix in some partners, we have seen strong growth, some partners we have not seen growth. But taken as a group together, we have seen small degrowth in quarter two compared to the previous quarter. We are working on these partnerships, how to see and how we can have growth across all partners and not only select partners.
Dipanjan Ghosh
So just to get a clarification on second part, is it more of a degrowth at this partners or is it more of some competitive pressure?
Abhijit Gulanikar
No, we have seen that in some of the partners, the overall business also has gone down. Overall business, not across all partners, all the life insurance player.
Dipanjan Ghosh
Got it. Thank you and all the best.
Abhijit Gulanikar
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nidesh from Investec. Please go ahead.
Nidesh
Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, first, the data keeping question, what percentage of the retail protection is ROP for Q2?
Amit Jhingran
Same actually, the 90/10. So at this moment ROP is 90% and 10% non-ROP.
Nidesh
And second, sir, on the non-PAR side, because render value you have not increased — you have not changed the payout of the commission rates and what I understand that IRR has also been not changed. So just because surrender value changes, should we expect margins decline, margins will be absorbed by the company, margin reduction will be absorbed by the company?
Sangramjit Sarangi
So not much is — I just clarified and mentioned that when we reprice those products, we pass on the — reflect the all of the yield curve and also to some extent refer the surrender value. Objective is not to pass on the entire impact of surrender value to the customer. This is first point. Second point, we keep mentioning that our surrender value was much higher as compared with our peers in the market earlier as well. And as and when this regulation came and reprice — to the surrender value, there is not much impact coming on the surrender value, except in the year one where surrender was not allowed and we are offering all policy getting loose. So that’s the reason there is not much impact coming from. We have passed on in partiality to some extent to the customer and most of the job and we try to optimize this with the other product category because within the month of order, you see there are different product term, PPD term, ticket size and other will have the different margin. So we try to look into the — analyze the aspect that how we can give the better value to the customer at the same time maintain this margin at the product level as well.
Nidesh
Okay, sir. Okay. So that’s very clear. And sir, on the credit life, in H1, what was the APE this year and last year if you can get that number?
Amit Jhingran
Credit life is flat. So last year it was INR102 crores and currently also this year YTD September is INR104 crores.
Nidesh
Okay, sir. That’s it from my side.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harshit Toshniwal from Premji Invest. Please go ahead.
Harshit Toshniwal
Hello, hi, sir, am I audible?
Operator
Yes, sir, please go ahead.
Harshit Toshniwal
Yes. Sir, just I think on that Banca channel part itself that clearly that base effect is something which we saw probably this year 10% Y-o-Y growth. But I just had two questions. One is that when we see this year, would it be good that at least from life insurance perspective, SBI life perspective that this is a year of reset of the base, but that 15%, the ability of SBI Bank to be able to grow a 15% that still remains there or you think that the base is becoming large incrementally every year to justify a 10%, 12% kind of a Banca growth? That’s the first question. And just as the second part is, so insurance as a product to what we have seen is that needs that physical element of understanding physical push. So to that extent, do you think that so high focus on Yono at least for a product like life insurance, can that lead to the CIF’s distraction in terms of the ability to cross-sell their targets? If you can throw some light that from their CRA perspective, how have things changed versus a Yono distribution or selling through Yono or selling through a normal Banca channel? Is it same for them or are they incentivized more if there is a — obviously, is there a CRA difference between the two channels per se? But I think the first part also, if you can also help that if this 10% is a one-off as a reset of the base or the ability of bank to grow at this pace is 10%, 12% itself.
Amit Jhingran
So I talked about the insurance penetration amongst the population in general and State Bank in particular, which is our major partner. So the underinsurance or the insurance penetration remains quite low and lot of opportunities. And with the kind of economic growth that the country is seeing and the financial awareness that is improving in the country, I’m sure that the opportunities are even better than what was there, say, five years, 10 years back. So…
Harshit Toshniwal
One part itself, sorry to interrupt that when we say a product like on ULIP, PAR, non-PAR I agree that the penetration is low, but these are in a way pseudo financial products cum insurance products, a mix of both of the coverage. Now in that case, that under penetration story has been there, but I’m just thinking from the ability of the CIF to be able to do volume because to be very fair, we are at volumes which are exceptionally large, even at Banca channel, the APE numbers of INR13,000 crore INR14,000 crore of per year is something which is very large enough. So just want to understand that from a practical viewpoint should we have that expectation of the bank to keep running at 15% or internally, we should moderate that to a rightly more modest number, which is more sustainable?
Amit Jhingran
Another part I wanted to clarify, you talked about the incentivization of the CIF. So in response to one earlier question also, I have told that since 2017, there have been no individual incentives to any of the CIFs. Whatever sales are being generated, they are sales any incentive to individual employees of the bank. The ability to sell and ability to make customer understand the product of the CIFs is in no doubt, these CIFs are being trained by us at regular interval about various products, about various new products, about various opportunities available in the market. And in addition to that, now the bank is also running data analytics on its customer base and giving leads to the branches about the potential customers who kindly ensured. So this data analytics will help in identifying the customers in more precise way in the future and our CIFs and our branch managers will be in a better position to target the customers who need insurance. So going forward, I will stick that the ability to grow at 15% remains intact.
Harshit Toshniwal
Great. Got it, sir. This is very helpful because I think that ability is the key thing to understand. Maybe this year could be a one-off and reset of the base. And sir, on the second part itself that whether — I understand there is no incentive, but more from a CRA of the branch manager’s perspective, is there some — because for them to be promoted, for them in normalcy of the business operation, they would be targeting to grow the business by 10% of what it was last year or 15% of what it was last year. Now in that sense, does Yono as a channel or direct as a channel, do they have any different preferences from top level at SBI?
Amit Jhingran
So Yono as a channel also, the business is attributed to the branch to which the customer belongs to. And as far as the target is concerned, bank employee or a bank manager has 50 to 60 lines of businesses to cater to and cross-selling is a very small part of that. So it does not materially affect his KRA. But yes, it is a KRA amongst many lines of businesses, many lines of parameters that any branch manager has.
Harshit Toshniwal
Okay. Got it. Perfect, sir. Thanks a lot and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rishi Jhunjhunwala from IIFL Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Rishi Jhunjhunwala
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. I mean, most of my questions have been answered. Just one thing, historically, if we see our business from a retail premium perspective used to be equally divided between 3Q and 4Q with probably 3Q being slightly better than 4Q in terms of absolute size. We saw that trend breaking down in the past couple of years and to some extent, it was also driven by potentially SBI’s focus a little bit more around CASA in the last quarter of the year. Given our guidance of 15% kind of a growth on APE for the full year, it requires that trend to break and go back to a level where 4Q can match 3Q on absolute basis. Just wanted to understand, do we have any kind of visibility there? Is there a reason why the trends of the past two years may not continue this year?
Amit Jhingran
3Q has always been stronger than 4Q as far as SBI Life is concerned and Banca channel, SBI channel is concerned. So if 3Q this year also, I already said that we have a very high base of last year. The growth was pretty good. So expecting a 9%, 10% kind of growth in the Q3 is somewhat reasonable and that is what we’ll maintain going forward also.
Rishi Jhunjhunwala
But just trying to understand that drop in 4Q on a sequential basis was quite stark in the past two years. So are we expecting a similar drop or do you think that could be better this year?
Sangramjit Sarangi
Rishi, we will — actually we are evaluating multiple strategies that how we can actually look into the — particularly on the January and February because as you know, the third quarter used to be a very strong quarter for us. So immediately post that, the Jan, Feb used to be a little slow for us. But this year, we are targeting in a different manner because a lot of products have been launched and we want to capitalize particularly on the protection and non-APR. So these two, we plan to run some camp in SBI Life. So let’s see how it will step up in this year because, yes, you are right, we plan to change that cycle for SBI Life and we are optimistic that this will help in this year to see that result going forward.
Rishi Jhunjhunwala
Thank you. All right. Thank you, sir. All the best.
Amit Jhingran
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Subramanian Iyer from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Subramanian Iyer
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. So my question was on VoNB margin. So essentially, you are talking about 26% to 27% margin for the second half. Now you already have 27% for the first half and if you are targeting a 60/40 mix, it’s actually going to be better in terms of margin-accretive products in the second half and plus you’re also talking about a higher protection mix as well. So is there anything else that is holding you back from guiding for a margin higher than 27% because mathematically the margin has to be higher in the second half say assuming the product mix. So yeah, that’s my first question. You can answer that.
Sangramjit Sarangi
I think you are right. So if I look at the mathematically side, I think margins should not be anything less than 27%. And we’re internally also expecting that margin will be much more than what we have given guidance. Only the point that is holding up is to ensure the growth because VoNB growth is most critical for us and like we always keep mentioning that margin is, let’s say, number we are always aiming to grow the VoNB. In that context, we are thinking that there is a possibility though we are trying to drive the production growth will be there, non-PAR growth will be there and all new APR will contribute. But we also need to ensure the growth in APE term and there is a possibility there is some changes happen over the period on the — shift to the ULIP or even if slightly yield will fall and then recently we have revised the product and at that point in time to be competitive to the market. If you’re holding up our return to the customer, there’ll be certain — pressure will come fall on the margin. In that context, we are saying margin will be 27%, but internally, our long-term guidance and expectation is our margin will be around 28%. So that’s the point I would make. There is nothing hidden in between on this side.
Subramanian Iyer
Yeah, thanks for the clarification. The other question is the same question unfortunately. I mean, everyone is harping upon that. But I will ask you very directly. I mean, this change in the nature of engagement with SBI, has it got to do with basically reducing the involvement of SBI employees? I mean, because we obviously keep seeing a lot of media articles about misselling and all that. I mean, although I do understand that your misselling ratios are best-in-class, they are the lowest, but is it basically say got to do with reducing the involvement of SBI employees in any way? And does it also I would say kind of coincides with change in guard at SBI? So does that have to play a role as well? So yeah, I’m asking it pretty directly.
Amit Jhingran
I don’t think what you are saying is correct in any way. I mean, the ability of SBI employees to sell insurance is well-established and it has been growing over the years. In last 10, 15 years, there have been several changes, regulatory changes, stopping of incentives, etc. But all that, the sales have withstood test of types and have continued to grow. Our effort to digitalize the initiation of insurance purchase journey on digital channel that is something which we want to take advantage of the digital technology and the tech-savvy customers. We are not undermining the CIF ability to sell and we don’t want to lose that advantage also.
And as far as misselling is concerned, you already said that our company is having one of the lowest misselling ratio at 0.03%. But having said that, even one case of misselling is not acceptable to us. And wherever customers are complaining any such thing, we are canceling the policy and if anything is put, we are also taking action against employees and all. So that portion is very well taken care of. This initiation on Yono, I will again reiterate that we want customers to initiate journey and the role of CIFs will be important even in that scenario because as earlier also somebody was saying that insurance is a product which needs some kind of explaining. So the role of CIFs and the branch staff will continue to maybe explain the products and guide the customer to initiate the journey on the Yono platform also. So this is a — this is one channel which we can use in multiple ways. Customers can initiate on their own, customer can initiate by the way of assisted journey from the branch staff and all. So that is what our stand on developing this product is and we are very sure that going forward, this will be a very helpful and very potential challenge.
Subramanian Iyer
Yeah, thanks for that answer. Just clarifying. So in terms of the CIF say channel, you will continue basically investing in that and growing that as well. So the investments in that will continue. I mean, is that understanding correct?
Amit Jhingran
Yeah, definitely. Our training programs for the CIS are going on.
Subramanian Iyer
And the footprint will increase basically. I mean the —
Amit Jhingran
Yes.
Subramanian Iyer
Yeah. Okay. Thank you. That’s very assuring. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Raghvesh from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Raghvesh
Hi, sir. I have a question on the credit life business. So while the broader asset has seen pressure from slowdown in personal loans and MSIs.
Operator
Sorry to interrupt Mr. Raghvesh, your voice is a bit fielded. Can you please get a bit closer to your speaker?
Raghvesh
Yeah. Is it better now?
Operator
Yes, please go ahead.
Raghvesh
Sorry for this. I have some questions on the credit side business. So I mean, it was flattish for us. The understanding is the broader market personal zones and NFI is going down. But SBI Life has traditionally had a I think an 80% share coming from this. So why is credit life not growing for us?
Sangramjit Sarangi
So credit life is flattish, the penetration levels in the bank are slightly lower than what we were expecting, but we expect the penetration levels to come back to the numbers we are expecting. So we expect a 9%, 10% kind of growth in credit line for the full year.
Amit Jhingran
What we are seeing is that the ticket size of the housing loan in the bank is increasing. And keeping in mind that thing, we are also easing the process of underwriting on the credit life business that is supposed to take effect from sometime in this month itself or maybe in the first week or second week of November. So there the underwriting process for the higher ticket size will be lower and we expect that the same will help in improving the coverage ratio.
Raghvesh
Okay. And the mix remain around 80% is [Indecipherable]
Amit Jhingran
Sorry.
Raghvesh
80% remains mortgages for us in terms of the credit life business?
Amit Jhingran
Majority mortgage, housing loans, yeah.
Raghvesh
Okay. Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. The last question is from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Prayesh Jain
Yeah, hi. Just wanted to understand on the HNI protection plan that you have been selling, what is the kind of premium that we’ve collected in this quarter or quarters?
Amit Jhingran
So I told you this product was just launched towards the end of the quarter September. So the numbers are negligible, but we expect this product to catch on and provide good numbers in coming quarters.
Prayesh Jain
And the profitability of the product would be similar to the retail protection.
Sangramjit Sarangi
Yeah, the profitability is similar to the retail risk and also competitiveness. So both the perspective which has greater proposition to the customer and the shareholders perspective. We expect this product will have in — and it’s a different segment. I mean, nothing cannibalization happening from one part to the other. We expect this will be more attractive and it will help us to not only increase our protection price, but also fulfill the under-insured population because a lot of people have taken the insurance, but with the lower sum assured that will help them.
Prayesh Jain
And last question, how has October been so far? Any trends that — re-trends on the new products with respect to growth or product mix?
Amit Jhingran
We will disclose the number by end of the month.
Prayesh Jain
Okay. All right. Thank you.
Amit Jhingran
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Jhingran, Managing Director and CEO for closing comments.
Amit Jhingran
So thanks to all the analysts and who are present here and thank you for giving this time and for all your queries. If you have any other questions, you may get in touch with our Investor Relations team and we will provide you the requisite clarification. Thank you.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks]