Sanghvi Movers Limited (NSE: SANGHVIMOV) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Feb. 14, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Sham Kajale — Chief Financial Officer
Rishi C Sanghvi — Managing Director
Analysts:
Harshh Saraswat — Analyst
Sahil Kishore Jain — Analyst
Vishal Jajoo — Analyst
Jay Bharat Trivedi — Analyst
Mohammad Umar — Analyst
Vivek Patel — Analyst
Mohit Shubh — Analyst
Krupa Desai — Analyst
Sunil Jain — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Chetan Kumar — Analyst
Abhilasha Satale — Analyst
Ashish Soni — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Sanghvi Movers Limited’s Q3 and FY 2020425 earnings conference call. From the management panel. We have with us today Mr. Rishi Sanghvi, Managing Director, and Mr. Shyam Kajale, Chief Financial Officer. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing start and zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sham Kajali. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Sham Kajale — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you very much for the introduction. Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen and thank you very much for attending our Q3FY25 analyst and investor call of Sanghvi Mers Ltd. My name is Sham Kajale, Chief Financial Officer, and along with me is Mr. Rishi Sanghvi, the Managing Director of our company. I quickly run through the financial highlights of our company and then I will open the floor for the question and answers. So in terms of financial performance for the quarter ended December 2024 our consolidated income from operation was 208 crores vis a vis 156 crore in second quarter ended September 2024 and and 151 crores in the first quarter I.e. q1FY25. For the nine months period ended December 2024 our income from operation was 515 crores. This includes income from crane operation, rupees 370 crores, 130 crores from renewable business vertical and rupees 15 crores from project TPC business. In Q3FY25 the average capacity utilization of our crane was 70% visa vis 68% in Q2 and 77% in Q1 of FY25. The average blended yield for Q3FY25 was 1.97% visa vis 2.15% in Q2FY25 and 2.04% in Q1FY25. Similarly, year to date I.e. december 2024 our average capacity utilization was 72% versus 84% year to date December 2023 the average blended yield YTD December 24 was 2.05% per month visa vis 2.19%. December YTD 2023 we achieved on par performance as per the guidance given in the previous earning call that is in H1 FY25 financial results. On consolidated basis our overall EBITDA margin was for the nine month period was 47%. The EBITDA margin for crane business on standalone basis was 52% while the EBITDA for project and renewable business was between 15 to 20%. For the nine months period ended December 2024 our net profit after tax was 103 crores. Our company has done a capex of 115 crores for the nine months period ended 31st December 2024 and have purchased 25 cranes and other equipment. The company proposes to do additional capex of 150 crores in Q4FY25 and intends to process some 34 cranes ranging from 110 ton capacity to 800 ton capacity which are backed by long term contracts from various clients. Thus on annualized basis our company may do total CAPEX of 365. Crores in the current financial year. We have sold 23 cranes including some cranes which were shown under the asset held for sale during the nine months period ended 31st December 2024 and have generated profit of profit of 11 crores from the sale of these cranes. Company have also sold surplus freehold land and three residential flats in Chennai in three of current financial year and have generated profit of 11.60 crores. As on 31st December 2024 company has a fleet of 350 cranes aggregating to 2575 crores. This is excluding some 40 plus cranes which are shown under the asset held for sale as on 15th of January 2025. The consolidated order book of the company was 995 crores of which orders worth 814 crores will be executed in FY 2425. The balance EPC order book worth 181 crores will be executed in the next financial year I.e. fY 2526. The spillover of EPCo order book is primarily due to delay in project uptake and on ground delays. Thus the order book for the current financial year is 814 crores out of which we already clocked the revenue of 514 crores in the first nine months period ended December 2024. The breakup of crane order book and APC order book is already shared in the investor presentation. Based on the current order booking position inquiry pipeline and possible extension of current contract with some of our customers, we expect 15 to 20% top line reduction with respect to crane rental business. However, on a consolidated basis that is crane rental plus renewable plus project TPC business, we expect to register top line growth of 20 to 25% on account of volume driven by renewable and project business. With this small introduction, I will hand over the floor to Rishi Sanghvi, our Managing Director for his further comments. Thank you.
Rishi C Sanghvi — Managing Director
Thanks Sham and good afternoon everyone. I would like to now talk about some of the strategic initiatives that your company is taking. One in order to leverage some of our core capabilities with an intention to provide value added services to our customers, we started a renewable as well as project if you see business some time about two years back.
As consistently mentioned, this is a high volume and low EBITDA business. In the current financial year the company. Company expects to achieve more than 250 crores of top line from the EPC business which is a 10x growth as compared to the FY24 and further we will have a large order backlog going forward which will be executed in FY26. Now this order backlog will continue to grow throughout the year based on the healthy Inquiry pipeline that we have as of today. We continue to face headwinds in the crane rental business primarily due to competition intensity and fragmentation and therefore your company is deploying a number of strategic initiatives as countermeasures. First, we have taken the strategic call to carve out Sangreen future renewables for the renewal business into a separate business vertical and this has been successfully completed in the last quarter. Further, we will develop the project EPC business leveraging our relationships with existing customers. It is prudent to note that while these are top line heavy businesses and volume driven, they are low EBITDA businesses. At the same time they will not put a strain on our finances as these are not capital intensive businesses but have high working capital requirements. We propose to do an additional capex of approximately 150 crores in the fourth quarter of this financial year which is backed by firm long term orders from customers across all sectors. The other strategic initiatives that our company management has already taken for the growth of the group as well as to increase the shareholder value is the activation of phase two with Bain & Co. Who are a global strategy and management company. We are exploring engine to growth opportunities for the company and the necessary growth capital for these opportunities have already been built. With this war chest strategic plans as well as B your company has taken effective steps, for example the incorporation of a 100% wholly owned subsidiary in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia which is a reflection of our ambition to join. Geographically expand our core career rental business. Further value plays are under development with Bain and should materialize in the subsequent quarters subject to the approval of the Board of Directors. I would once again draw your attention for further information regarding the financial performance and strategy in the investor presentation which has already been uploaded on both the BSE and NSE portals.Thank you once again everyone and I would like to hand it over to our moderator to take the first question.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We’ll now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on the attached to a telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press Star and two Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles participants, you may press star N1 to ask a question.The first question is from Naino Harsh Saraswat from Elegant Family Office. Please go ahead.
Harshh Saraswat
Hi Rishi, I just wanted to ask on this 150 crore capex which we are planning to do in Q4, seeing that capacity utilization is already at 70% and yields also falling, can you throw more light on this? Why we are doing it in one single quarter and what are you seeing in the wind power specifically and other sectors also.
Rishi C Sanghvi
The capacity expansion that we are doing is not particularly for the wind sector. We have already indicated that we have firm orders across all sectors. We see that there is a lot of pickup in the activity economic activity going forward. The first nine months there was a slowdown primarily due to the prolonged monsoon, the general election which also resulted in a slowdown in government expenditure private and PSU capex.
Now the capacity utilization we believe will continue to improve going forward and with that improvement in the capacity utilization comes the added benefit of pricing power which is reflected in yield. The entirety of the capex that we are doing has been approved by the Board of Directors and the management is confident in deploying these incremental capacities.
Sham Kajale
From port to site or from the docks to the site as each of these cranes is backed with with a firm long term order. So by this can we conclude this that the execution in FY26 will be much better, much higher. Due to the backlog of FY25 itself and government spending increasing going forward, we expect capacity utilizations to improve in the next financial year.
Harshh Saraswat
Okay. Okay. And any Capex plan for Q1 and Q2 as of now?
Sham Kajale
It is subject to the board of approval and will be declared at the appropriate time.
Harshh Saraswat
Okay. Thank you so much. All the best.
Operator
Thank you. Participants, you may press star and one to ask the question. Next question is from line of Sahil Kishore Jain from 7 11PMS. Please go ahead.
Sahil Kishore Jain
Hello. I’m audible. Hello. Hello. Hello.
Operator
Yes sir, you’re audible. Please go in with your question.
Sahil Kishore Jain
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. So my first question would be who are the top lines of the company?
Sham Kajale
Okay. So there are a lot of IPPs who are currently operating in India through their subsidiaries. For example Blue Leaf, Blue Pine. Then JSW Energy. Then Iris Renewables. They are our main clients including Vibrant Juniper. So they are over IPP clients. From the wind sector. Besides this we have. We are working with various big corporates in India. For example from the power sector, thermal power sector. We are working with dhl, ntpc. They are also working with Nuclear Power Corporation. We are also working with all windmill company. For example Renew. We are also working with steel companies like Tata Steel, jsw. We are also working with hydrocarbon companies like lnt.
Sahil Kishore Jain
Okay. Okay. Thank you. My next question would be was Inox Wind ever your customer or they are still your customer. The epc. They were a customer in the past. So right now they are not the customer.
Sham Kajale
That’s correct.
Rishi C Sanghvi
Currently. Currently we deployed one crane. But that contract is now got over.
Sahil Kishore Jain
Okay. Okay. And lastly is Chinese crane rental business in India. Are there competition to.
Sham Kajale
What do you mean? Can you explain your question?
Sahil Kishore Jain
I mean to say there are Chinese crane rentals company in India. So are there competition to you?
Rishi C Sanghvi
As far as we know there are no Chinese Korean rental companies who are operating in India.
Sahil Kishore Jain
Okay. Okay. Yeah, that’s it from us. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from Lana Vishal Jaju from Mahindra Manual Life. Please go ahead.
Vishal Jajoo
Yeah. So sir, the question was when we look at your capex figure I guess you have increased the figure as what it was communicated post Q2 and Q3. So where are the signs where we are seeing capacity increase utilization levels? If you can just elaborate a bit more on the same.
Sham Kajale
Basically if you see last year we did a capex of more than 300 crores. This year we have cautiously reduced the capex number considering the fact that there was a huge monsoon in India and there was a delay in project execution on the ground there was a reduction in the capex not only from the government side but also from the private sector side on account of general election.
So we are cautiously taken a call to reduce our capex in the first six months. In fact in nine months also. But now the capex that we have planned is backed by long term orders from various sectors and it is generating good amount of yield which is in line with the current yields of the company. And this expect that the capacity utilization will touch around 80% in the Q4.
Vishal Jajoo
Okay. And since the new businesses that we have entered Sand Green or the ventures outside in India also that we are planning, those don’t require capex but those are working capital intensive. So would it be fair to say that this capex is predominantly for our core crane rental business? Shouldn’t be fair.
Sham Kajale
Yes, yes. The 150 crores capex that we are doing is for the core business. That is for purchase of the crane we are going to purchase. So we are purchasing cranes for core business in India.
Rishi C Sanghvi
Also I would like to clarify that the business in Saudi Arabia is not is Capex heavy because it is a expansion of our core business which is crane rental services in a new geography which is Saudi Arabia. Having said that, the entirety of this 150 kores will be deployed for projects in India for Indian customers.
Vishal Jajoo
Okay. So sir, if I may just split our capex figure into two parts. First nine months and whereas the Q4 capex figure. So while I do appreciate that, I do understand that this year’s capex including this 150 crore figure is lower than last year. But somewhere in the last three, four months we have increased this number significantly. Because as far as H1 or 9 month figure goes we were guiding for. We had trimmed down our CAPEX numbers but now we are increasing it. Right?
Sham Kajale
Yes.
Vishal Jajoo
Okay, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from line of Jayatravedi from Encode Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Jay Bharat Trivedi
Hello sir, am I audible? Hello.
Operator
Yes, go ahead.
Jay Bharat Trivedi
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. A couple of questions. Two on the numbers side, what is the average life of crane that we have now and what is the amount of liquid investments that we have as on date?
Sham Kajale
We are talking about the residual life of the crane fleet that we have. It is more than 20 years. And in the investor presentation we have mentioned that we have a surplus liquidity of 178 crores which have been deployed with various teams of mutual fund and all are date funds.
Jay Bharat Trivedi
Yes sir. On the average life of cranes I wanted to understand what is the pending life average on the whole basket that we have.
Sham Kajale
So we have two types of crane. One is a Crowler crane. The life of this Crane is between 35 to 40 years. And the truck lattice are the sorry tire mounted telescopic cranes. We have the other cranes that we have. The average life of this Crane is between 25 to 30 years.
Jay Bharat Trivedi
Okay, so however we depreciate our assets in 15 to 20 years although our life is higher, is my understanding correct?
Sham Kajale
Yes. We are providing depreciation as per Schedule 2 of Companies Act. There are two sets of depreciation that we mentioned. The Schedule 2. So they are saying if the. If you are having a less than 100 ton capacity cranes you should consider the economic life of a crane as 15 years. And if you have a hundred ton plus capacity crane you should consider the effective economic life of a crane as 20 years. So on straight line method the depreciation rate for 100 ton above crane is 5%. And for the less than 100 ton capacity crane it is roughly around 6.7%.
Jay Bharat Trivedi
Thank you sir for the clarification. Second, on the EPC business, the current capabilities that we have which we have built over past two years, what is the revenue forecast or any gigawatt number that you can give the epc that we can give. Any guidance there?
Rishi C Sanghvi
So for us, the EPC business we are, we are a very prudently cautious company. It is very lucrative to build a massive order book and which can make flashy headline. We have gone cautiously in terms of securing the order books where we feel that we are capable and confident about delivering the projects. Looking forward we do believe that next year in terms of the EPC revenue will definitely look better than FY25. And as of right now we are not giving any numbers with respect to the gigawatt or forecast on the EPC value.
Jay Bharat Trivedi
Okay sir, next. Sir, we see that the new cranes which we are buying, those are long term contract back. Any yield expectation that you have on those contracts, have they been finalized?
Rishi C Sanghvi
And with going forward, and with respect to these capex and going forward also the company will try to maintain an average blended yield of 2% which is a strategic call that the management is taking.
Jay Bharat Trivedi
Yeah, thank you sir. And the last question would be the GCC investment which we’ll be doing where we have already incorporated the subsidiary. What is our right to win there and what is the, what are the capabilities that the company is building for that? Any color you can give them.
Rishi C Sanghvi
So Sanghvi Movers limited is the largest crane rental company in India, Asia and the fourth largest crane rental company in the world. So by scale, size of operation, our capabilities with respect to safety, quality, technical provinces, execution on operations side, repairs and maintenance, planning and engineering, we benchmark ourselves internationally and we are already ranked as number four in terms of size.
We believe that we can transfer a lot of these operating, technical, and safety capabilities to Saudi Arabia which gives us a differentiated and clear right to win in that market.
Jay Bharat Trivedi
Any particular reason for choosing Saudi Arabia? Just maybe top of the things that we have in our mind from a strategy point of view.
Rishi C Sanghvi
So in general, the GCC and MENA region is an attractive geography for a crane rental business, primarily due to the oil and gas. Petrochemical and more importantly all the development that is taking place in the past. Uae, then Kuwait, then Qatar were the companies that were driving the growth in the region. And now looking forward for the next 10 to 15 years, there is tremendous amount of growth and potential in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The country has recently won the FIFA 2034 World cup, the World Expo is there before the FIFA World cup and His Highness has created the Vision 2040 which involves a lot of GIGA projects that are being built across the country. All of this along with the oil and gas market which is driven by Saudi Aramco, makes the country a very lucrative and high potential market.
Jay Bharat Trivedi
Okay sir, thank you for the opportunity once again and I’ll join back with you for any further questions. Thanks a lot sir. All the best.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line Mohammed Omer from Paul Capital. Please go ahead.
Mohammad Umar
Good afternoon and thank you for the opportunity. In the Q2 earnings call, the company has provided a full year revenue guidance of 952,000 crores with strong confidence. However, as per the latest Q3 disclosure, the revised expectation stands at 814 crores, almost 150 crores below the initial target. Could you please elaborate on what specific factors led to the shortfall, particularly given the revision occurred within just three months from the initial guidance?
Additionally, with the with an order book of approximately 300 crores set to execution in Q4, do you still consider this is a realistic achievable target or do you foresee any further execution risk that investors should be aware of? And looking beyond the current year, we also noticed that the order book for FY26 appears relatively thin at this stage. Do you view this is as a temporary situation or there is any structural headwind in the business environment that could impact next year revenue visibility?
Sham Kajale
So I will answer your first question. See in the Q2 or the H1 24 Investor Conference Call, we are not given any guidance in terms of top line revenue for the current financial year. I don’t know where from you got this number of thousand crores plus top line in the current financial year. If you look at the Investor presentation for H1 25, you have clearly stated on page number 18 of the investor. Presentation that our order book as on 31st of October it was 898. Now it has SW it has gone up to 995. So we are never mentioned in our investment presentation that our for the current financial year will cross thousand crores.
Mohammad Umar
Not in the presentation but was in the call. If you look at the detail, you know details of the call you will find that 9 to 5000 crores but not in the presentation. I agree with you. Okay, go ahead please.
Sham Kajale
Okay, the next part of the question Rishi will answer.
Mohammad Umar
Okay, thank you.
Rishi C Sanghvi
So first off we have a order book today of 995 crores. We have clearly mentioned that we expect the revenue for this year to end at Sham roughly around 800 crores plus. 800 plus. Yes there is. As we move into the EPC space the project offtake on the ground is not in our control. We work and cater to ipps and there are a number of interfaces at site that are beyond our control in the scope of the project owner which due to multiple reasons can result in a delay or spillover of the order book. So we have already given an indication that of this 995 crores more than 100 plus crores will spill over into the next financial year.
The second point that you must look at is that we are confident in delivering this 300 crores odd of order book in Q4. So safe to say that the company’s top line will very easily cross 800 crores. There is no. This is in line with what the management has consistently been communicating across all investor calls and investor presentation. Could you repeat your last question gentlemen?
Mohammad Umar
Okay sir, looking beyond the current year, you know all can be for the FY26. You know the order book, you know relatively very thin. Like you know you have 150 crore something. You know. Do you view this as a temporary situation or any structural headwinds in the business environment?
Sham Kajale
So the spillover of order book for the next financial year is 181crores. There are a lot of inquiries in pipeline which will eventually convert it into order book which we are not talked about. So there is no structure.
Rishi C Sanghvi
We have not given you the order book for next financial year, my gentlemen. We are just talking about the spillover of this year’s order book going into next array.
Mohammad Umar
Okay, fine, I got it.
Rishi C Sanghvi
I request to please be accurate in the numbers that are being presented.
Mohammad Umar
Okay, so there’s no order book for the next year, just a spillover from this year.
Rishi C Sanghvi
Yeah, there is order book, it hasn’t been disclosed.
Mohammad Umar
Okay, fine, perfect. My next question is, you know over the past six months Sangi Movers market capitalization capitalization has declined nearly 2 3rd leading to a significant erosion of shareholders value. Given your deep understanding of the business and the opportunity ahead, do you believe it would be prudent for the promoters to consider purchasing shares from the open market to stabilize the stock price and restore investor confidence? Or do you feel the valuation is still high and would be better to wait for a further correction. Hello.
Rishi C Sanghvi
Shyam, do you want to or should I.
Sham Kajale
See basically promoters currently do not have, do not want to give or rather management do not want to give any comments on the market capitalization number, how it has moved in last nine months or so. So currently we do not have any plans to buy back the shares and we do not want to comment whether the company is valued at a right price or.
Rishi C Sanghvi
As a management. What we are focused is on a long term strategy, what we are doing in our business and in catering and solving our customers pain points. So thank you for the question. We don’t have a comment.
Mohammad Umar
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you very much. Next question is from the line of Vivek Patel from Ficom family office. Please go ahead.
Vivek Patel
Very good afternoon sir. I just had two quick questions. Firstly the revenue share from windmills has gone down from 49% to 44%. Are you seeing any execution slowdown in the wind space and according to you which sectors are you seeing a slowdown in other sectors?
Rishi C Sanghvi
Thanks, I’ll take this question. Yeah, sham, go ahead please go ahead.
Sham Kajale
Yeah, yeah, please, please.
Rishi C Sanghvi
So the first nine months execution and project offtake was slow again due to a multiple reasons. First there was a prolonged and early onset of monsoon. Second, there was a general election in the country where by complete government spending in the first six months had slowed down and consequentially private and public capex slowed down.
Project offtake is now improving so we are seeing traction across all sectors and we are bullish in the demand for cranes going forward. And this can be clearly seen through the Q4 CAPEX numbers which as I would like to mention once again are backed by long term. Term orders which are all in and around one year. Sham over to you.
Sham Kajale
I would. Yeah, I would like to add that last year India has done a 3.2 gigawatt windmill erection. In the current financial year, based on the numbers that we have, it is not in the public domain. The best of the information that we received we have completed. India is estimated to completed roughly around 2.5 gigawatt of windmill erection till 9 months. So based on the order book execution, which we feel since we are on the ground, we may end up doing the windmill erection between 3.5 gigawatt to 4 gigawatts.
So the reason of telling all these numbers is that there is a overall slowdown in windmill erection in the first six months primarily on account of heavy monsoon in the country. The overall output or the overall erection of windmill has also come down significantly and that is reflected in the decrease in the overall contribution from the windmill sector in our revenue composition.
Vivek Patel
Thank you for that answer. And secondly, I think you already sort of answered it, but I’ll still ask it anyway. In Q3FY25, the crossings were slightly below 2% and capacity utilization was 70%. So on the operational front, compared to the industry, what could potentially be the main cause for the divergence versus the industry? Thank you.
Rishi C Sanghvi
I could not hear the last part of the question.
Sham Kajale
Absolutely, absolutely. I also could not hear anything.
Vivek Patel
Hello. So I was saying that in the last quarter the gross yields were roughly around 2% and the capacity utilization was at 70%. So on the operational front, compared to the industry, what could be the potential reasons for the cause of this divergence versus the industry?
Sham Kajale
Our estimate that our yield will settle down around 2% going forward. This is the overall competition intensity in the industry.
Rishi C Sanghvi
And again for the first nine months, as has been mentioned time and again, there are a couple of reasons that we are now talking about the drop in utilization and also yield. One is a prolonged monsoon which has resulted in some clients releasing cranes because there was no physical activity taking place on the site. There’s a slowdown in government and private capex due to the general election and there is a reflection of a reduction in pricing power in the first nine months on account of competition intensity and fragmentation.
Going forward. In terms of yield, as Shyam has already mentioned, We are confident that it will settle around 2%. And the fact that we have announced 150 crore capex in Q4 all of which is backed by long term orders signifies that the utilization will move up in the next financial year.
Vivek Patel
Thank you sir. Thanks for all the very. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you very much. Next question is from Land of Mohit Shubh from Shublab Research. Please go ahead.
Mohit Shubh
Hi sir. Am I audible?
Operator
Yes sir, you are audible.
Mohit Shubh
Thanks for the opportunity sir. Sir, my question is about the market share that we have FBTC as well as project business.
Rishi C Sanghvi
I cannot hear the question. Sham.
Sham Kajale
Market share. He was talking about the market share In right now.
Mohit Shubh
A market share in wind EPC as well as product DPC business.
Rishi C Sanghvi
Oh so these are very recent. These are very nascent businesses. We have just established them less than two years ago. It is an unorganized sector. There are no listed players in the EPC space in wind barring one company which is KPI or KP Green one of those two. And there are a dearth of EPC providers who are unorganized in the renewable wind space.
In the project EPC Also there are large to small clients. We primarily create competitors where we primarily cater to the hydrocarbon sector. Again it is too early to comment on market share because both businesses are nascent. What we are focused on is building an order book that the company is confident on delivering to our clients and then taking it from there.
Mohit Shubh
Okay sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from Nayan Krupa Desai from Electrum Capital. Please go ahead.
Krupa Desai
Hi sir. Am I audible?
Rishi C Sanghvi
Yes. Good.
Krupa Desai
Sir, can you give me what is the GROSS Block for nine months? FY24.
Sham Kajale
F4.
Krupa Desai
FY25. Nine months FY25 gross block.
Sham Kajale
2575 crores.
Krupa Desai
Can you give a ballpark number of the wind EPC pipeline And for the nine months the EPC EBITDA margins are in 20% range. So is this sustainable?
Sham Kajale
I will answer your second question first. So going forward we are hopeful. We this is a one of a kind of margin that we have got actually because we got some good pricing in some of the contract going forward. As a conservative company we would like to state that the EBITDA margin for wind EPC and project DPC will settle down between 10 to 12%.
Krupa Desai
Okay sir, because KP Energy is already making in 20% range like in higher teens.
Sham Kajale
They are already in this business for last three, four years. We are just entering into this business and currently we are just doing the subcontracting of the contract that we are getting from our customers. So we need to build that kind of, you know capabilities to get that kind of margin. So we are in the learning stage and once we develop the internal in house capabilities our EBITDA margin will slightly improve.
Krupa Desai
And sir, how is overall competitive intensity in this wind EPC space?
Sham Kajale
I think Rishi has just answered that question.
Krupa Desai
Okay.
Sham Kajale
They are more from the unorganized sector except KP energy.
Krupa Desai
Okay sir, thank you for that.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sunil Jain from Nirmarbang. Please go ahead.
Sunil Jain
Yeah, thanks for this opportunity. Sir, my question relate to wind EPC whether the our cranes are getting used into wind APC in the, in the wind apc our crane and then second thing if wind these cranes are used over there then how we account for the profit or revenue of that crane whether that is segmented into.
Sham Kajale
Okay, I will take this question. So the crane car deployed in the wind EPC segment our clients are taking a provide giving us a turnkey contract to SML that includes Karen component. So the crane revenue is obviously getting built into crane business and a windpc revenue is being booked in SFRPL that is Sangreen Future Renewables Private Limited which we are carved out with effect on 1st of October. So all wind EPC revenue other than crane it is getting booked into that company.
Sunil Jain
Okay, so pure APC business not of any crane.
Sham Kajale
There are some intercompany transactions because of the particular nature of the contract. The cranes are the cranes revenue is initially booked in some cases directly in SFRPL and they in turn they take the cranes from sml. So there’s the intercompany revenue segment which we are deducted and shown in the investor presentation. So it is roughly around 19 crores in the third quarter of the current financial year which is carve out and shown separately.
Sunil Jain
And the second thing about this project tpc we had seen a lot of volatility in their EBIT margin. So can you explain what is the nature of this business. Business and why this volatility comes
Sham Kajale
See nature of business Receive will explain. I will explain you the explain you the beta margin volatility. See earlier we took this contract and we earned some margin which was a decent margin. Now as I mentioned to in the earlier answer, this EBITDA margin though it is almost 18 to 20% in the reported numbers, it will get settled down between 10 to 12% going forward. Can you answer the the peculiar nature or the nature of contract that we are taking in the Project EPC segment.
Rishi C Sanghvi
So in the. In the Project EPC segment or wind. So in the Project EPC segment we cater to the hydrocarbon space where we are involved in the execution of lump sum turnkey or LSTK engineering, procurement and construction composite jobs. We take on activities such as on ground and underground piping, ducting, fireproofing, blasting and painting structures, erection, fabrication and equipment, erection and alignment along with some at times some portion of civil activities.
This is the composite jobs that we provide in the hydrocarbon space. And the typical clients are customers such as Toyo Technimont Technip Bridge and Roof, Haldia Petrochemical Refinery, hpl, cpcl, bpcl. These are our customers.
Sunil Jain
The last question about this wind EPC and project EPC how much is the data today?
Sham Kajale
So for wind EPC most of the IPPS there are clients and the credit terms is 30 to 45 days and it is the current outstanding data dates for wind EPC is roughly between 45 to 60 days and for project TPC it is between 60 to 90 days.
Sunil Jain
Okay, great. Then it will generate good roce business?
Sham Kajale
Because there’s no capital employed now.
Sunil Jain
Yeah. Yeah. Okay great. Sir, thank you very much.
Sham Kajale
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from line of Priyanshi from Brighter Mind. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Am I audible?
Operator
Yes, ma’am.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Sir, my question is on Wind EPC side and which has already been answered by you. So thank you.
Sham Kajale
Thank you. Have a good day.
Operator
Thank you very much. Next question is from line of Chetan Kumar from Engine well, please go. Go ahead.
Chetan Kumar
Hello. Am I audible?
Operator
Yes, go ahead.
Chetan Kumar
Yeah, so my question was regarding the order book for cranes. So in your presentation we see that the order books for cranes is about 421 crores. And if we were to deduct the nine month revenue that we have realized for it, it’s about 370 crores. We arrive at an approximate unexecuted order book of 50 crores. And in the presentation we have highlighted that the orders to be executed in Q4 FY25 for cranes is specifically 142 crores.
So I just wanted to understand is my numbers right and or are we expecting some additional orders?
Sham Kajale
Yeah, we are expecting some additional orders in the Q4.
Chetan Kumar
Okay. All right, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from line of Abhilasha Satali from Quantum Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Abhilasha Satale
Yeah, thank you for giving. So my question is largely industry related. If you see in Q3 the actual execution has improved. We are seeing in some of the EPC contractors revenue for wind. However, as far as we are concerned we are now seeing that kind of pickup in our numbers. So and as you have also mentioned that we will end the year flat. So actually H2 should be better than the last years of H2 because H1 was much slower. In that case where are we lacking? Are we substantially losing market share to the unorganized segment and therefore we are not able to show that in our numbers. This is my first question.
And second question is what is outlook for the next year? Like if the execution picks up in next year then how much, you know, increase can we see in our capex numbers?
Rishi C Sanghvi
I didn’t understand. I couldn’t hear the question.
Sham Kajale
Okay, so I will answer. See basically as Rishi mentioned we are not decided anything on the capex to be done in the next financial year. That will be a board decision and it will be communicated to you in the next conference call. Maybe. So if you see we are very conservative company and considering the drop in the utilization, the yield and onset monsoon in the first second quarter and overall deduction in the capex on the private and public sector we have consciously taken a decision to curtail down our capex because otherwise there’s no point. Just do a capex when there’s a capacity utilization is less than 70%. We’ll just buy the crane and it will remain idle.
Now in the fourth quarter we have intentionally taken a call to increase. The capex because it is backed by a solid order and that is the primary reason we are not there are some organized players who are also buying the crane and we have already mentioned that there is a competition intensity and that is also dragging down the overall pricing power. And that’s why we had given a guidance that our overall average bandit yield will settle down around 2% going forward. I hope I answer your question.
Abhilasha Satale
Yeah, but even at that, even like you know, the yield is going down, but in that time actually the execution should improve. Right? Because if we are also, you know, taking a competitive yield, then in that case we should not lose market share in the execution that the world.
Sham Kajale
Correct? Correct. So if you’re not doing this capex, then definitely we will lose the market share not to other place.
Abhilasha Satale
Okay.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from line of Ashish Sony from Family Office. Please go ahead.
Ashish Soni
Sorry. In terms of your wind EPC business, I think you said you are still incumbent sort of player. So qualitatively where do you stand like compared to a like matured player and where do you see when do you see you can get to the matured level of maybe that example wise, margin wise or capability wise? If you can throw some light. Because I think the way you explained about Saudi Arabia, why you want to go there, what are the capabilities you can throw some light. Where do you stand in terms of maturity from your perspective politically.
Sham Kajale
So first off, let us discuss where the intention to become a player arose from. When the feed and tariff regime was replaced by the reverse auction, there was a significant drop in the capacity addition in the country in FY14 151516 the country had added 5 and a half gigawatts per year till date we are not able to reach that kind of capacity addition 10 years down the road on in any given year.
So the industry took a very long time to adjust to the policy sheet. At that time majority OEM players were providing complete product and project services and completing the entire erection of the wind farm.
What happened consequently was OEMs took a step back said that we will only supply product which is the global operating model. This left most IPPs having to execute their own project. Projects. And these IPPs don’t have the capabilities because they are primarily funds like sovereign funds, pension funds and private equity funds who are trying to put up these platforms. So there was a clear white space in the market. The entire supply chain in the project execution space prior to this was deeply fragmented, unorganized, with relatively small players, with poor financial track record, corporate governance and at the end of the day performance capabilities. And these IPPs were starved for good vendors with a good financial capabilities, corporate governance and a delivery of track record. By this time, Sanghi Movers had achieved a 15 gigawatt erection track record and had been present virtually in every single wind farm that was constructed in the country. So we got a tremendous amount of pull from the market saying that you have the capabilities, you’re solving one of the hardest problems in the renewable wind space, which is the erection of the turbine. Kindly help us or assist us in delivering balanced services around the mechanical, electrical, civil transportation, which is logistics, surface logistics, and in the land approvals and permits. And this is where the capabilities we started creating capabilities within Sangri Movers and we will continue to develop capabilities to service these five different product offerings in order to provide a turnkey solution to the renewable wind energy sector in order to say ranking margins, market share, maturity, the industry still naked. It is yet to be seen who emerges as the top two or three players in this space, one of which has reached and is a listed entity. The balance are trying to find their space and develop an execution track record. Till date, whatever projects the company has taken in this space, we are hundred percent confident in delivering those EPC projects as we have already delivered all these 15 gigawatts worth of erection. So the company will only take up those projects where our delivery. Is Ashok. So this is the strategic thought process, market pull by our customers and the in house development of capabilities that has crafted this unique solution.
Ashish Soni
Okay, so let me add another point to it. What I want to understand because you said mature player, I think you do a benchmark with global as a trained battle company. Right. So I’m trying to understand the mature player. I think somebody asked that question that for 20% margins. But in what sense? Like what are the few factors where you can reach that margin that might be your aspirations. I’m trying to understand your thought process of reaching because you said you have good track record because of which you got into this. But what are the factors which will improve margin, how many years your thought process right now.
Sham Kajale
So we will see this in subsequent quant quarters. But the five areas that were described in terms of product offerings is where we will focus our capabilities.
Ashish Soni
Okay. And regarding the GCC business, so in next one or two years how do you see it scaling up to like maybe 10%, 20% of your revenue? What’s your thought process right from there?
Sham Kajale
Our ambition is to be a top five player in Saudi Arabia.
Rishi C Sanghvi
So may I ask like what the like market share or revenue target or at least something you’re thinking in that line. Strategic thinking. In order to get to a top five player we need to have a 12 to 15% market share in Saudi Arabia.
Ashish Soni
Okay. Which will be equivalent to how much? Like some thousand crore or something. Or more.
Sham Kajale
At this time we cannot share those numbers.
Ashish Soni
And the last question, this wind installations in India, I think you said earlier in earlier video it was 5.5 gigawatt. What I heard 4. It might close by 4 and government is targeting 10. So from your perspective, do you think India can reach 10 gigawatt which government is planning in maybe next two, three years?
Sham Kajale
I think this is a better question for companies like Suzlon, Inox etc. But we are geared up to cater to 10 gigawatts a year.
Ashish Soni
Thanks and all the best.
Operator
Thank you ladies and gentlemen. We’ll take that as a last question. I’ll now hand the conference over to Mr. Rishi Sanghvi for closing comments.
Rishi C Sanghvi
Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining the investor con call. We appreciate the questions that we have had. Your company continues to develop its core crane rental business along with deploying several strategic initiatives which in the long run will create an outsized shareholder return. We look forward to engaging with the community in our next investor conference. Call for Q4FY25. Thank you and have a good day.
Sham Kajale
Thank you very much, everyone.
Operator
Thank you, sir. On behalf of Sanghvi Movers Ltd. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.