Sagar Cements Limited (NSE: SAGCEM) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 13, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Gavin Desa — Investor Relations
Sreekanth Reddy — Joint Managing Director
K. Prasad — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Shravan Shah — Analyst
Moksh Ranka — Analyst
Parth Bhavsar — Analyst
Vibha Jain — Analyst
Navin Sahadeo — Analyst
Sumangal Nevatia — Analyst
Mangesh Bhadang — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Jayesh Gandhi — Analyst
Rajesh Ravi — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome you to the Saga Cements Q4 FY ’25 and FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call. Please note that this conference call is being recorded. We have with us today Mr Srikant, Joint Managing Director; Mr K. Prasad, Chief Financial Officer; Mr Rajesh Singh, Chief Marketing Officer; and Mr Jay, the Company Secretary. We will begin this conference call with the opening remarks from the management, following which we will have the floor open for the interactive Q&A session. I would now like to hand over the call to Gavin Disa of CDR. Well, over to you, Gavin.
Gavin Desa — Investor Relations
Thank you, Manish. I’d just like to point out that some statements made in today’s discussions may be forward-looking in nature and a note to this effect was stated in the con-call invite sent to you earlier. We trust you have also had a chance to go through the result communications and documents. I would now like to hand over to Mr Srikant Radi for his opening remarks. Over to you, Sriganth.
Sreekanth Reddy — Joint Managing Director
Yeah. Thank you, Gavin. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Saga Cement’s earnings call for the quarter and the year ended, 31 March 2025. Yeah, let me begin the discussions with a brief overview of the market in terms of demand and pricing, post which I will move on to specific developments. Overall, the industry witnessed good volume momentum as demand picked-up pace amidst a rebound in-construction and increased government spending. As far as pricing is concerned, while it remained flat during the Q4 FY ’25, it has started to move higher, but in our core markets from the core markets from the second week of April 2025 onwards. Operational profits for the quarter benefited from the better volume growth and benign input prices on the sequential Q-o-Q basis. Let me now move on to our quarterly performance. As indicated earlier, Q4 registered a volume growth of 5% over the previous year as the demand momentum remained firm during the quarter. For FY ’26, we expect our volumes to be around 6 million tonnes. Moving to the headline numbers, our revenue for the quarter stood at INR658 crores as against INR709 crores during Q4 FY ’24, lower by around 7%. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR37 crore as against INR68 crore generated during Q4 FY ’24. Margins for the quarter stood at 6% as against 10% in Q4 FY ’24.
EBITDA per ton stood at INR218 during the quarter. Going ahead, as mentioned in our earlier call, we expect EBITDA per ton to improve on account of lower energy prices and a better pricing. We also foresee the business benefiting from the operating leverage as our utilization rates are climbing across our units. We are also optimistic that our initiatives to optimize the freight costs, including minimizing lead distances, lowering the clinker factor, along with upgrading our Angla cement plant and increasing the proportion of renewable energy in our mix will significantly enhance our cost efficiencies and overall profitability.
The exceptional item recognized during the Q4 FY ’25 is towards the recovery of of fuel and power purchase cost adjustment in Andhra Government done by Andhra Government pertaining to FY ’23 and ’24 amounting to INR27 crore. Last loss after tax for the quarter stood at INR73 crores. In terms of three operational activities, expansion at Andhra Cement is progressing very well and is ahead of schedule. The likely target is slightly ahead of December ’25. From an operational point-of-view, plant operated at 52% utilization, while Gurpadu, Baywaram, Jirabad, and Dachpali plants operated at 88%, 65%, 79%, 38% and 31% respectively during the quarter. As far as the key balance sheet items are concerned, the gross debt as on 31st of March 2025 stood at INR1,428 crore, out of which INR1,135 crores as long-term debt and the remaining constitutes the working capital.
The net-worth of the company on a consolidated basis as on 31st of March 2025 stood at INR1,794 crores. Debt-equity ratio stands at 0.63 is to one. Cash and bank balances were at INR164 crore as on 31st of March 2025. To summarize, our expanded capacities strategically position us to capitalize on the anticipated growth in infrastructure and real-estate development in the years ahead. Moreover, our ongoing initiatives to broaden revenue streams and strengthen our regional presence are expected to enhance the company’s overall profitability. That concludes my opening remarks. We would now be glad to take any questions that you may have. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you. We will now begin with the question-and-answer session. We
Will take the first question from Shravan Shah. Shravan, please go ahead.
Sreekanth Reddy
Has been a much sharper increase compared to the trade. But on an average — on an average, I think we can keep an account for INR60 increase for bag across AP and Telangana markets. Terminal markets for us, it is anywhere between INR50 to 55. Tamatka is anywhere between 45 to 50 Maharashtra, yeah, we have not seen significant increase, but we have seen around INR10 to INR15 same is the case with.
Shravan Shah
Okay, got it. So now considering this the significant hike that we have seen, so also just to — your thought now, do we believe that these prices are likely to kind of structurally to remain and maybe start improving.
Sreekanth Reddy
I can comment for myself. As I mentioned to you, we have — from the earlier outlook in terms of volumes, we ourselves believe that chasing the volumes would not give us the margin that is required. And there are some volumes that have come up the market with the ramp-up. Even that scenario, we are aligning ourselves with the more market growth. I think given the situation and the demand from the government, as we have seen, Andhra Government has already initiated the tender process which are in finalization stages. We believe prices should sustain at the current levels, if not be higher.
Just to give you a background, Mr, the current prices are not anywhere close to the highest that we have seen historically. So these prices are even close to around 15% to 20% lower than the historical high numbers that we have seen close to eight to nine years ago. So these prices should not give too much comfort to too many people assuming that it will slide down. I think these are the prices which should survive is what we strongly think just but only time will tell. But the last month and a half is already passed by and so-far, they have been holding up well.
Shravan Shah
So great. Great, great, great. So considering that, so last-time we were looking at more than INR500 kind of EBITDA per ton in FY ’26, so given the sharp increase, close to a kind of INR40 INR50 plus kind of a price hike. I think at the end of Q1, we will be in a much better situation to talk about the entire FY ’26. Let us take one-step at a time. I think achieving INR500 to INR500 plus to INR750 for Q1 definitely is a possibility. For the full-year, I think let us wait for the Q1 results to pass by, then I’ll be in a much better situation to put the commentary. See, there are two aspects that you have to remember in case. I think the EBITDA per ton should naturally move to INR500 because Andras upgrade — upgrade is likely to get completed, especially the clinker — up to clicker side before September.
So given that scenario, we expect some amount of cost-saving. So I think INR500 EBITDA per ton is given irrespective of price increases in-system. Okay. So that’s what actually I wanted to understand, so because the operating leverage will also play in terms of the cost-reduction and given the price increase, so we should be seeing a much higher number on the profitability. So that’s the only thing wanted to understand in detail. I think you are right. From an operating leverage perspective, again, we are not talking of a big number, we are only talking of on an average at 55% to 57% capacity at a consol level. But the reality for us is that the upgraded should significantly reduce our cost. So that from the exit EBITDA was close to around INR300 per ton, that should naturally move to INR500. So whatever price increases if they sustain, I think we should look at a much bigger.
Sreekanth Reddy
Great, great.
Shravan Shah
And last sir, two data points. Are the capex for FY ’26 and ’27. So I was just going through the presentation, so left capex for Andhra is close to INR395-odd crores and plus WHRS and all this. So around INR500 odd crores is left.
Sreekanth Reddy
Our plan for the capex for the current year is around INR360 crores because out of INR360 crores, INR250 odd crores would be Nandra. The balance in Andhra would be spent over next year. So it might roll-over to the next year in terms of the actual payouts. So we expect another INR140 crores, INR145 crores to be paid out from Andhra for the next year. But for this year, the entire capex at a group level is close to around INR350 crores INR360 crores. Maintenance capex is around INR30 odd crores. And at end, we are talking of INR80 crores because we got the MOA of approval for upgrading the plant from INR1 million to INR1.5 million. Out of INR130 odd crores that needs to be spent, the current year, I think we should spend close to INR80 odd crores. So that takes us anywhere between INR50 crores to INR360 crore for the current year.
Shravan Shah
Okay. And last, sir, the and Girabad that the small expansion in the in strategy?
Sreekanth Reddy
Yeah. The Jirabad itself, we are talking of INR80 crores for expanding the plant from 1 million to 1.5 million tonne. Good part of me, we want to take it slightly later in the second-half of this year. So CapEx may not be very significant in the current year such.
Shravan Shah
Okay. So in terms of the timeline, the Godi Padu when it will come and Jirabad or the new extra capacity.
Sreekanth Reddy
We expect Jirabad in terms of the grinding unit to be commissioned by end of this current financial year to early part of next financial year. Guri party should be in the Q2 of next year,
Shravan Shah
Mr. Okay. Okay. Great. Thank you and all the best, sir.
Sreekanth Reddy
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take the next question from Mook. Mook, please go-ahead.
Moksh Ranka
Hello. I wanted to understand what is the structural reason we are in this sudden price increase? Because considering the oversupply, the price increase should have been gradual, right?
Sreekanth Reddy
And Mr, I don’t know-how much will track off our sector, but I think the prices have been absolutely in its status for last 18 months. So it’s not that prices have moved sharply, it only looks in relative terms because last 18 months was very, very difficult on the pricing. It has been gradual, I would put it because the gap between the historical high to now, still around 15% to 20% exists. So we believe that those are the prices which are required with the inflation. The historical peaks that we have hit is close to eight to nine years ago, sir. So even if I have to factor-in the inflation kind of a thing, this is still gradual,
Moksh Ranka
Mr Mark. Sure. Okay. So the price increase which we have seen, we are not — it won’t be rolled back like previous instances.
Sreekanth Reddy
So it’s a good question. I wish I had a very firm answer. We are assuming that the entire industry was losing with the price regime that we’ve had for last 15 to 18 months, the current pricing should allow us to breat some air, not that these margins would be extremely high. So at this level, it should sustain is what we think.
Moksh Ranka
Sure. Okay. And my last question is, I know we had our. We are more — we have more presence in the South India as compared to other players, but still our results are much below — are much below par compared to other cement companies. So could you just provide some color on that too?
Sreekanth Reddy
Yeah. See, I cannot comment much of the other results, sir. Our results are more pertaining to the market exposure that we have. At the same time, please understand that Andhra ramp-up and Andhra Cements performance also has contributed to our — I would not say negative kind of a thing. Yeah, this is something which we have to keep in mind. The — yeah, it is not comparable with the others because we have this cement which is ramping-up at this point of time.
Moksh Ranka
Mr Ash. Okay. That’s it from me. Thank you.
Operator
We’ll take the next question from Park sir. Please go-ahead, you may unmute your line and go-ahead please we cannot hear you actually. We’ll move on to the next participant., you can unmute your line can please.
Parth Bhavsar
Yeah. Sir, I have two questions. Sir, one is on pricing that when we say this, there was a INR50 to INR60 per bag price hike. So how do we — how do we — how should we look at discounts? Is this net of discounts? Has there — and has there been any movement in discounts while the price hikes were taken?
Sreekanth Reddy
Yeah. I think, yeah, the price hike what I mentioned is a grass once that includes GST, that includes the relevant kind of a discount structure. But what you have to remember from a discount perspective, yeah, it is not on a percentage basis, it’s on a fixed basis. So that may not have any impact. The only thing that you have to see on a net basis is to net out the GST element of the overall kind of thing, if you want to add. Net realization part. Fair enough. So to understand basically your fixed discount per like change from Q4 to this month. This cost will not be significantly different, Mr Path? Only you have to move the GST on those incremental kind of a loss of price hike. Yeah. You have to remove 30% of it, you will get the net price realization.
Parth Bhavsar
Okay. Okay. Fair enough. And sir, one more thing that you mentioned that there would be players who have been assets that were acquired and that would also start showing up as they ramp-up capacity. So what sort of number like do we
See in your region of operation.
Sreekanth Reddy
As we are — as I mentioned, sir, I think the ramp-up is from the earlier years when those volumes were missing, I think those volumes might get a line. South in general, historically has been hovering around 55% to 60%, sir. We don’t expect that number to be significantly higher even for the current year in-spite of having a better demand. So the demand what we are projecting for the region in general is at 6% to 8%. So that is what we need to consider.
Parth Bhavsar
So are we — can we like put in a number that incrementally from FY ’25 to ’26, maybe roughly we expect like these capacities to throw a particular number in terms of supply.
Sreekanth Reddy
Is there part I’m sure I have — I wish I had the answer for the question that you asked. I have no idea about how they are going to ramp-up. So I cannot comment. This is something what we have penciled in. So we believe that market is grow at 6% to 8%. Except for Andra ramp-up, like some of the other ramp-ups, we also believe because Andra average capacity inflation has been sub 30% for whole of last year. So we expect it to get aligned. With that alignment, we expect it to come back. At a consol level, we should operate anywhere between 55% to 57%. That’s what I can comment. I believe most of the players should also come back and align itself with what the market has to offer unless somebody is trying to squeeze more volumes.
Parth Bhavsar
Fair enough. And sir, is there anything where we are basically trying to realign our brands or are we selling the cement of Andhra under their own brand-name or have we.
Sreekanth Reddy
Said it is almost close to two years since Andhra is coming to Sport, sir, the only brand that we sell from there is.
Parth Bhavsar
Okay. Perfect. Perfect. And is there any delta in terms of the brand realignment in terms of what realization they used to sell and-or is it already done? It’s in the base?
Sreekanth Reddy
Only one brand sir. So from a brand perspective, there cannot be an element except for some freight optimizations.
Parth Bhavsar
Okay. Perfect, sir. Thank you so much for answering my questions. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take the next question from Viva Jain. Please go-ahead.
Vibha Jain
Yeah. Hi, sir. So just wanted to the status on the sale of land. So we were awaiting some approvals in last quarter.
Sreekanth Reddy
So what is the status?, we are very close, but government has been busy with the capital formation. So we expect most of these approvals, everything should be in order. I think by the time we reach to the Q1 results, I think we will be having a much clearer news, but I think we are very close is what we are. We will indicate the end of Q1 to every part of Q2, I think that remains for getting the approvals. Okay, okay. And sir, also just on the view on the pet coke and coal prices, sir, in coming time, what we are expecting the?
Yeah, Viba. I think the good news is that from 107, 108, it dropped to 100 as we speak, some 100, but we have to see it has been volatile, but the good news that what we see is it is not going up to the old numbers that we have seen almost two years ago. So it’s in the same 100 to 110 kind of range. Think next few weeks, we should have lot more clarity because things looks to be settling well. So with that, we should have lot more clarity from a petcoke pricing perspective. The current price as we speak is around $100. The last that we have placed order is at $107, which was close to, 20 25 years back. Right now, the offers that we have received yesterday and today is scoring around 95 to $100, but they are talking of only these prices for next 15 days to a month because they are also not very sure how the geopolitics is going to play-out.
Vibha Jain
Okay. And sir, lastly, on the capacity addition side, like what kind of capacity addition we are expecting in our core operating regions?
Sreekanth Reddy
For the current financial year, we don’t expect any major the capacities to come, but we do expect some amount of ramp-up from units which have been operating less or got commissioned last year, like the one at, my home as well as Andhra Cement. These are ramp-ups that we are expecting, but we are not expecting any new capacity to come up.
Vibha Jain
Okay, sir. Thank you. That’s all from me. Thank you.
Navin Sahadeo
We’ll take the next question from Naveen Saude. Please go-ahead. Yeah. Good morning, sir. Am I audible? Yeah, very much. Good morning, Mr yeah. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity, sir. Sir, on your volumes front, you gave a guidance of around 10%, 11% growth. So here, I just wanted to check because we are, let’s say, halfway into the quarter. So has April like a trend being any similar in-kind of like double-digit or higher single-digit. And is there any base element there or how should one read, let’s say, this growth of 10% to 11% for you and then the industry as well?
Sreekanth Reddy
Yeah. So Navin, I think what we are penciling is around 6% to 8% for the industry and a similar growth for ourselves, sir. It is not 10% to 11. Yeah, from 5.5 million, we are expected to be around INR6 million. I think what we have seen in April vis-a-vis to last April, of course, there is a base effect one has to remember because in the year April, it was election time. So from that to this, there has been a growth. The exact numbers, again, we are still compiling. So we do expect it to be somewhere in the same range as what I mentioned, between 6% to 8%. But this is more to do with the base effect rather than the growth itself so, I mean. And the tempo, as you have seen during the Q4, it was positive. So the same tempo has continued, but may not be a very big kind of a number. Yeah, no, sure, because base effect was there, I’m saying for the entire first-half of FY ’25. Almost the first 3/4,
Navin Sahadeo
Mr. So there has been a catch-up that was done even in Q4 or from the middle of Q3 all the way up to Q4. So that momentum is continuing, but not in the same pace as it has been before. So April month is very specific. You could take 6% to 8% growth year-on-year number. This is purely on account of last year April was very, very subdued. So fair point, fair. But net-net, we are in sort of some growth zone only or high single-digit growth.
Sreekanth Reddy
For if you look at last year number was exactly flat to a year before number. From there, we are talking of 6% to 8% growth instead. So it’s definitely growing.
Navin Sahadeo
Yeah. Okay, great. My second question then was on your green power. So I think we exited the year with about 13% green power share, right? And sir. Yeah. But I believe we had a target of reaching up to 20% by ’25. So just wanted to get a sense how do we make-up and then in, let’s say ’26 or ’27.
Sreekanth Reddy
Listen, again, we had target to reach to 50% by 30%. So yeah, there has been a missing 25% because the capacity utilization itself was lower, so some of the recoveries did not fully optimally function. So I think we are on our way to achieve that number because we could commission a 6 megawatt solar in Gurupado during the Q4 and likely that we would be commissioning before the end of Q1 itself out-of-the early part of Q2, another 6 megawatts solar at Andhra. We started working the waste recovery at Gurfadu, which is likely to get commissioned by either end of Q4 or to the Q1 of next year — next year. So given this scenario, I think we should — we should be very close to 50% or slightly more than 50% by FY ’20. Few quarters, there could be a gap because we are implementing these projects. Given the difficult market scenario, there have been some slippages, but I think we should be in a situation to do the catch-up over next few quarters, Mr. So we should we should cross the 25% threshold or if not in ’26, but I’m sure by ’27, we should be very close to 30% 35%.
Navin Sahadeo
Okay. So exit for ’26 can be around 20% 25% and yeah, if you look at last year, it was slightly difficult for us because even hydro generation was caught up only during the back-end of the year. So we expect hydro generation also to be very healthy. So we should be in a very, very good NIM.. So understood. And just my last question. You mentioned prices improved from second week of April. So I’ll just request you to kindly just repeat the initial comments. In the sense, you said non-trade was much higher, but on an average, AP Telangana has still seen an increase of INR55 to INR60 trade, non-trade put together. Is that correct?
Sreekanth Reddy
Yes, their average — average is around trade could be a little higher, right?
Navin Sahadeo
Yes, sir. And similarly, what was for that for Tamil Nadu, you said for us, 50 to 55% both trade non-trade book put together.
Sreekanth Reddy
Yes, it’s average sir. Yeah, 50-55 and Karnataka? Sorry, 40% 45 40 45 in Karnatak. And Maharashtra as you said, 10 to 15.
Navin Sahadeo
Yes, sir. Great. Great.
K. Prasad
That’s really very helpful. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you so much. Thank you, sir. Thank you. We’ll take the next question from Sumangal. Please go-ahead. Yeah, good morning, sir. Sir, couple of clarifications. First is o
Sumangal Nevatia
Yeah, good morning, sir. Sir, couple of clarifications. First is o
N the land sale. Could you share what is the latest, I mean, assessment of the value we could realize any ballpark because it’s been, I think two years now since we have it. So there must be some change towards that?
Sreekanth Reddy
No, I think at this point of time, still we have not been on-the-ground. The prices have remained very flat from — from then to now, not much of change. Likely that prices might move-up with some amount of development activities that are happening even in. But I think the real pricing scenario we will start assessing once we get the approval, Mr. As I stated before, just for the convenience, let me repeat, the market retina rate is at close to INR400 crores-odd. We expect it to — we expect it around INR350 crores. Out of that INR350 crores, we expect it to be spent over two years, that is this year and the next year. So that’s what we have stated. That remains as we speak. I think once we get the approval, that is when we would start reaching out to the buyers. That’s when the real discovery would happen. At this point of time, we are still backing on the returner rate. There has not been a big change on the returner rate since last we have interacted around system.
Sumangal Nevatia
Got it. So in the next couple of months, we are expecting the approval and then the sale process maybe another one or two quarters. Is that the right way to understand?
Sreekanth Reddy
Yeah. Mr Sumangal, I think the sale process probably should be longer because it’s 100 odd acres. So we believe, it’s a big land. You cannot target to sell the entire thing in a short period of time. So internally, what we have factored is close to around 30% sale to happen in the first year and the rest to be sold over six to eight months following that time in-system. It needs to be broke it into manageable parts, not into small fractions. So that’s what we have been informed by our advisors. So that’s what we believe is likely to happen. There are few parties which have reached out, but we thought it’s too soon for us to comment unless we get the approval, we thought we will not engage in the price discussions, Mr Suman.
Sumangal Nevatia
Understood. And sir, largely those proceeds will be used towards deleveraging, right? Is that a safe assumption?
Sreekanth Reddy
Yeah, that’s a very safe assumption, Mr Sumangal, but we did indicate in our presentation, in our investor presentation about the evolution of the debt. So we would definitely use most of it for deleveraging the system.
Sumangal Nevatia
Okay. And sir, with respect to Andhra Cement, we are having 90% holding. Can you just update us as to what is our plan to move towards 75% and how much time do we have?
Sreekanth Reddy
Yeah. March ’26 is the timeline by which we need to reach to 75. We already got the approval for the rights issue, Mr Sumangar. We are also seeking some clarity because it’s — so we are waiting for that clarity to come. Yeah, before the December, I think rights issue should have — should have been completed.
Sumangal Nevatia
Okay, understood. Understood. And just one last thing, sir, recently, Tamil Nadu, as we discussed, had imposed INR160 royalty charge. What is our read with respect to other states also doing that, which will then eventually directly impact us?
Sreekanth Reddy
At this point of time, except for Karnata and Tamil Nadu, Anra and Telangana are yet to start discussions. We believe that they will not start. That’s our hope. But the only information we have is that these are the two states which have engaged and went ahead and Karnata is still for certain clearances.
Sumangal Nevatia
Got it, sir. Thank you and all the best. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take the next question from Rajesh. Please go-ahead. We’ll take the next question from Mook Shrianka. Moksh, please go-ahead.
Moksh Ranka
Hello. Hello. Am I audible? Yeah. Sorry,. Rajesh, could you please go-ahead, please?
Sreekanth Reddy
Thank you. Yes, now you are audible.
Moksh Ranka
Hello. Yeah, go-ahead, please. Yeah, good morning, Mr Rajesh. Go-ahead. You are very much audible, sir. Sorry I think there’s some issue at my end I’ll come back-in queue okay can you please go-ahead? Yes. So my question was regarding our pledge. I understand we have a pledge because it gives us a lower interest-rate on our debt and we aim on continuing keeping that pledge. But considering we are planning the sale of land and with the price increases, we are going to get good cash flows. So do we plan to remove that pledge? In the coming years?
Sreekanth Reddy
Sure. MR. Moksh, there are multiple aspects you have to remember. Yeah, one is the pledge of Andhra shares to the lender SBI that has been part of the terms. So that has no bearing. The overall promoter pledge is not a promoter pledge, sir, it is more an undertaking for a commitment to stay-in the same percentage. So unfortunately in this every disclosure it reflects as if it’s a pledge, it’s not a flex or it is more. And yeah, it’s more an incumbents.
Moksh Ranka
Mr. Okay. Thanks for the clarification. Thank you.
Sreekanth Reddy
Thank you.
Operator
We’ll take the next question from Mangesh Paran. Please go-ahead, Mangesh.
Mangesh Bhadang
Hi, good morning, sir. Am I audible? Yeah, good morning, Mr Makeshia. Very much. Please. Yes, sir. Sir, so firstly, just wanted to understand, you know, for different states in South, what would have been the demand growth in FY ’25 and you mentioned only 30% utilization for all the EP players for the year means we are looking at a significant cut in-demand for EP Telangana in this year. So just wanted to understand any numbers that you can share.
Sreekanth Reddy
Yeah, AP, Telangana together were flat to kind of — our reading is it’s minus 2%. Karnata was almost close to 5% plus. Tamiladu was minus 5%. Kerala was minus 2.5%. That leaves the overall South number was flat year-on-year number, Mr Makesh. Sure. Except for, all the other states have been either negative or flat. On an average, the overall South number for last year was flat year-on-year kind of a number that we expect it to grow to 6% to 8% for the current year the if you look at the state finances of most of the states in South, you know the central government also does not share the government in many — I think barring only one, they don’t share there. You think state governments have the ability to spend there and that should drive or you are more reliant on central government as well as the rest of the capex?
Yeah, Mr, I wish there was some correlation. Historically, there was never a correlation. So our belief remains very same, sir. We have seen a couple of years back pre-election, we think the state finances were any different than what they are right now for the growth to happen. So I think there is — there has never been a correlation, sir. Go logically there should be, but it again depends on the government focus areas. So they keep flipping from one to the other, they end-up implementing their projects. So fortunately, the pet projects for most of the governments remains the either low-cost housing or some amount of infrastructure build. Fortunately, both are cement consuming, sir. So given that scenario, we expect the cement demand more from a government-led kind of a demand to be robust for the coming quarters especially if you look at Andra, I think the capital is the key focus it is reasonably — I mean, as you have seen, a lot of financial tie-ups are happening each project-by-project and some of the projects have actually reached to beyond tendering stage. So given that scenario, we expect the government demand to be robust, is especially in Andhra and low-cost housing in Telangana remains focus area and fortunately that also is driving some amount of cement demand in Telanganas.
Mangesh Bhadang
Understood, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take the next question from. Rajesh, please go-ahead. Rajesh, you may unmute your line and go-ahead, please we are not able to hear Rajesh. Can you the next question we’ll take from Shravan Shah. Shavan, please go-ahead.
Shravan Shah
Yeah. Sir, just two small clarification. TSR for 4th-quarter of FY ’25 was how much?
Sreekanth Reddy
Yes, sir, we’ll update you on that seven?
Shravan Shah
Okay. Okay. And second, sir, this INR23 odd crore kind of incentive for MP. So that now will be — most likely will be coming in the Q2 or Q3?
Sreekanth Reddy
Yeah. Last year we received one in Q2 and one in Q3, sir, because it was two years that we received. Likely that we expect it to happen before end of Q2.
Shravan Shah
Okay. Okay. Got it. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you yeah anybody who has a question may indicate by raise of hands. Yeah, Manish I think there is a question which came up in the chat, Manish from Mr Kunal Balpande. His question was pertaining to, sir, what is the rational and factors for higher operating EBITDA per ton for AC NPL versus ACL standalone, which has declined significantly. Is it a factor of net realization more than cost? What are the plans to do SAL standalone offerings? I think we — yeah, it is more to do with the markets that we service, sir. SAMPL is more or less aligned with the industry players because it is mostly to servicing Madhya Pradesh. Yeah, did suffer on standalone as well as with Andhra. The primary reason being Andhra and the market realization itself.
Sreekanth Reddy
On a cost front, I think we are reasonably there, sir. I don’t think cost was an element there was mostly to do with the rate.
Operator
Thank you, sir. We’ll take the next question from Suhan. Please go-ahead?
Unidentified Participant
Thank you, sir. You said our EBITDA per ton can — has a potential to rise to INR500 per ton. So how do you see it increasing? Like can you guide me on the fuel cost and price per tonne going-forward and by when this can we achieve it?
Sreekanth Reddy
Yeah. I think Mr Soham, we are talking of this to go up in Q1 itself. The reason the exit EBITDA per ton was at INR291 sir that is for the Q4 March number. This is during the time when Andhra was under ramp-up. So there were frequent start stops and we are upgrading the plant that definitely put a lot of impact on the overall kind of cost structure at Andra. So that dragged down the overall kind of EBITDA and EBITDA per that itself should give us comfort because more or less the ramp-up is taking a better share. The cost element in Andhra has come down quite significantly. So that should — that in itself should contribute to — for the EBITDA to reach to INR500 level,
Unidentified Participant
Mr. And we expect this to maintain for the whole year.
Sreekanth Reddy
I think — I think with the better pricing, we should be higher than that number.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thanks. Thank you. We’ll take the next question from Jaysh Gandhi. Please go-ahead/
Jayesh Gandhi
Am I audible? Yes, sir. Good morning, Mr Jaish very much. So can you throw some light on our limestone security? When are our leases expiring and reserves?
Sreekanth Reddy
Yeah, Mr Jaysh, I think we would be happy to share that because except for one mine in, rest of all are beyond 2050, reaching all the way up to 2060, sir. We will exactly give you the breakup. We’ll be happy to share it. In fact, our integrated report, which is due for release by end of June, should give you absolute detail, but we would be happy sharing the table immediately after this call, Mr Vish.
Jayesh Gandhi
We’ll reach-out and we’ll share that. Sure. Sure. And sir, one more question. So in case if the mining leases are expiring and we go for renewing them. So what is — what is the royalty — excess royalty or something that we have to pay or is it a lump-sum amount? How does that work?
Sreekanth Reddy
Yeah, Mr Jesh, in our — in our case, the first mine should expire in somewhere around 2031 or 32. The procedure, what has been indicated at this point of time is that we have to go for an auction. And what government has indicated is that the plant with a mine, the operating plant with that mine could be given preference. But at this point of time, the mode and method is not yet clear for us. But I think we have to go for an auction, sir. So the — the general belief is that the way auctions are happening, I think this also should reflect in a similar way. If the mine is in big demand, I think the premiums may be up of 100%. In a normal-course, it should be anywhere between 10% to 15% premium. I’ve given you a very generic answer, sir. It is not specific to. This is. I understand. And my question was, will that attract excess — I mean, raw marty over and above that reserve price also? It is actually pertaining to the royalty itself. If you are talking of 100%, you are paying 100% of incremental royalty, sir, royalty plus 100% of royalty. We are paying 10%, it is royalty plus 10% of royalties. It is.
Jayesh Gandhi
Thank you and good luck for future. Thank you.
Sreekanth Reddy
Thank you.
Operator
Mr Thank you. We will take the follow-up question from Mokshra. Please go-ahead.
Moksh Ranka
And just one more question. Are Andra Cement, we are planning a rights issue there. So are we not planning too much Andra cement with ourselves or we are applying to keep it as a separate entity.
Sreekanth Reddy
Yeah, Mr Moksh, we are waiting for regulatory clarity because it’s — as you know that we have taken it from NCLT, there were some accumulated losses and some land-related issues did not help us to do the merchant during last two years, but we would be more than happy doing it as and when we get the regulatory kind of clarity and we would have crossed the milestone. From a land perspective, I believe we have crossed the milestone because that has fairly limited kind of thing. That was not the case a few months back, Mr Moksh. Now that we have crossed some of the critical approval process, land is no more in intense, but accumulated losses and all, we need to get the tax authorities approval for us to get if you were to march. So there were few other regulatory hurdles that did not prompt us to march. But we would be more than happy doing it as and when we get the regulatory kind of clearances.
Jayesh Gandhi
Okay. And what should be the quantum of accumulative losses which we could benefit when we merge under cement with us? And also our actual pledging would be in how much if should it be less than 20% or 15%?
Sreekanth Reddy
You’re talking of promoter pledge, Mr Mosh? Yeah, it’s other cements. So the actual pledge should be — yeah, it should be less than 15%, Mr, at the promoter level. Okay. The next — the first question that you asked about the accumulated losses to Andhra, they are around INR1,200 crores, Mr Ash.
Moksh Ranka
Okay. Okay. Thanks for that’s it.
Rajesh Ravi
Thank you. We have a question from Rajesh Ravi.
Sreekanth Reddy
How much is the cost-saving will come from Andra Brand stabilization? That is his first question. See, I think at this point of time, the heat rate alone at a clinker level should contribute around INR200 odd per tonne, Mr Manish. Rest everything is kind of ramp-up and the grinding plant once it is done, we would definitely save another INR50 to INR75 on the electrical side. So all-in all, we expect around INR250 to INR300 per ton kind of a saving at-once the Andhra upgrading is completed in its full shape.
Rajesh Ravi
And his next question is on-net cement prices are higher by INR25 to INR30 per bag in Q1 across South as per the stated pricing for Q1. Given that discount?
Sreekanth Reddy
No, it is logical. Mr Manish, that the EBITDA per ton should be very-high because exit prices at INR300. The average relation, see, I think it’s a forward statement. So I’m not in a position to give a comfortable answer to specific answer to that, but it’s logical when price has gone up, it should — it should add-up to the previous EBITDA what we have — EBITDA per ton what we will do.
Rajesh Ravi
Okay. Perfect, sir.
Operator
We have last follow-up question from Mook Shrana. Please go-ahead.
Moksh Ranka
And this INR1,200 crores accumulated losses, we can take the benefit of it even if we emerge with, right?
Sreekanth Reddy
Yes, sir. I think it might get, but most of it should be available for.
Moksh Ranka
Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Anyone who has a question may please indicate by raise of hands. So as there are no further questions, we will request you to give the closing comments.
Sreekanth Reddy
We would once once again like to thank each one of you for joining us on the call. I hope you got all the answers you are looking for. Please feel free-to contact our team at Sagar or, should you need any further information or have any further queries. We will have more — we’ll be more than happy to discuss them with you. Thank you. A good day.
Operator
Thank you. And we will now conclude the call. Thank you, everyone. Have a good. Thank you,. Thank you.