S Chand & Co Ltd (NSE: SCHAND) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Feb. 11, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Stuti Beria — Moderator
Himanshu Gupta — Managing Director
Atul Soni — Head, Investor Relations, Strategy and M&A
Analysts:
Harshit — Analyst
Niteen Dharmawat — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Srinath Sridhar — Analyst
Rishikesh Oza — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Estron Q3 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call hosted by PL Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistant during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing on it as turn form. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms Suthi Dheria from PL Private Limited. Thank you and over to you, ma’am.
Stuti Beria — Moderator
On behalf of PL Capital, I welcome you all to the 3Q FY ’25 earnings call of Limited. We have with us the management represented by Mr Himanshu Gupta, MD; and Mr Atul Soni, Head, Investor Relations, Strategy and M&A. I would now like to hand over the call to the management for opening remarks, after which we can open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you.
Himanshu Gupta — Managing Director
Thank you. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I’m Humanshu Gupta, the management West Company Limited. I would like to welcome you all to our 3rd-quarter and nine months results conference call for FY ’25, and thank you all for taking the time-out and joining us here today. I’m extremely happy to share that Q3 FY ’25 and Nine-Month FY ’25 has been encouraging period for the. I’d like to highlight the following key points for this period. First, in Q3, we crossed million in revenues. Then we saw the highest-ever Nine-Month sales in company’s history. We also saw the lowest receivable days in nine months in the past five years and also we saw the lowest net working capital days, nine months in the past five years. Apul will touch more about these in his comments. In the school segment, which accounts for over 85% of our revenues, we continue to innovate and enhance our offerings in multiple curriculum solutions that is Milestone, Solid Steps, Smart K and. Whether we are ready to make the most of the upcoming sales season for promoting and distributing content according to the new syllabus to our customers. We expect FY ’25 and FY ’26 to see maximum adoption of the new syllabus content, which would help the growth trajectory of the company. We saw a strong start to the QS season in Q3 and we hope to continue the momentum in the main quarter. In the segment, apart from partnerships with various YouTubers, which has helped us enter new geographies and segments, we are launching CUET Coaching and mock test under the Test Coach platform to cater to the CUT examination. This examination attracts over 15 lakh students and we see this opportunity as a sweet-spot given our product offering and leadership in this food segment, which should caterpolt us as a leader in the segment as well. We continue to be engaged in the content license agreement contains a directing partnership with leading tech majors to power the general generation — general AI large language model LMs opened up a new revenue vertical for the company, which we are keen to continue to build upon since we have a large content repository and AI LLM models need vast amount of dataset for trading. The 3rd-quarter was a marketing intensive where we go all-out to connect with key decision-makers and our end-customers. In this regard, we had events like our channel partner Product Briefing Singapore study, two of our principals of leading schools, even mathematics, Hendi knowledge US Squiz, scratch and, etc. With that, I would now request our Investor Relations Head, Mr Akul comprises all of us on the financial performance of. Thank you.
Atul Soni — Head, Investor Relations, Strategy and M&A
Thank you,. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for your time. I’m, Head, Investor Relations, Strategy and M&A of the Eschan Group. In terms of numbers for the first-nine months, our consolidated operating revenues came at INR1,002, a PAT loss of INR256 million. This was a historic Q3 since we crossed INR1,000 billion in revenues and delivered gross margin more than 70% for the first time in the company’s history in-quarter three. The corresponding number for the same quarter three last year was 55%. There has been an increase in our gross margins in comparative to last year as the nine months FY ’25 numbers had the benefit of lower raw-material costs and AI content licensing revenues, which are higher gross margins. Our EBITDA losses for nine months decreased to INR682 million loss versus a loss of INR765 million on back of higher gross margins. Our PBT losses for nine months decreased to loss of INR1,003 million versus a loss of INR116 million. One of the strongest features of the company’s Q3 results were our working capital metrics, which are at historical lows for Q3 in the company’s history and are at par with the best-in the industry. Do note that our Q3 receivables were at 80 days for the first time in the company’s history. Our Q3 net working capital days were at 152 days, which is also the lowest in the company’s history. Trade receivables stood at INR1,503 million during the quarter versus 1,502 million during the same time last year. In terms of receivable days, it stood at 80 days versus 89 days in Q3 FY ’24. This is the lowest receivable days in Q3 in the past five years. Inventory reduced to 2,157 million versus INR2,329 million in the same quarter last year. Our inventory includes raw-material paper inventory of INR544 million versus INR872 million in Q3 of last year. This is the quarter with the highest inventory during the year in anticipation of a strong sales season. Net working capital reduced to 152 days versus 156 days in-quarter three of FY ’24. This is the lowest net working capital days in Q3 in the past five years. On the net-debt front, we stood at INR539 million versus 889 million net-debt in Q3 FY ’24 and the gross debt stood at INR1,778 million versus INR1,207 million in Q3 FY ’24. Net-debt has reduced by 350 million on a Y-o-Y basis. In terms of cash flows, our strategy of focusing on cash-flow has yielded results where we ended the quarter a nine-month period with reduced operating losses before working before working capital changes of INR575 million loss versus a loss of INR643 million during the same time last year. As we enter the main sales season of FY ’25, I would like to reiterate for this year. Firstly, we are looking to grow operating revenues in double-digit for the year. Secondly, we expect gross margins to be higher versus last year. Thirdly, we have upgraded our EBITDA margin band to 17% to 19% versus 16% to 18% and last year-on account of higher gross margins. Finally, we look-forward to continuing our sharp focus on working capital metrics and cash-flow to continue. We will be net-debt free for 3/4 during the year. With this, I would like to open the call for your questions. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from question queue, you may press R and two. Participants are requested to use censors while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Harshit from Dobo Capital. Please go-ahead.
Harshit
Thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible? Yes. Yeah. Yes, thank you. So considering that the company has stated in the presentation that there will be maximum adoption of the syllabus change. What is the expected top-line growth for FY ’26 and ’27?
Atul Soni
So we are not giving any top-line growth as of now for those two years. We will be obviously giving the next year top-line growth when we report our annual numbers in May and I guess we would be able to provide that answer at that point of time.
Harshit
All right. Sir, earlier the company has guided 18% to 20% growth considering that the NCI adoption took place, so would it be fair to assume a similar growth trajectory?
Atul Soni
So we have said that there would be strong double-digit growth for the company in times of — when the NCF is adopted. So yes, so I mean, I think giving any color around that at this point of time, I think it will not be fair. Let us wait for the season to get over. And in May, we would be able to provide an answer.
Harshit
All right. Thank you. So, sir, can you tell me how many standards have already changed the syllabus under the new FMCF and how many more are expected to change in the coming years?
Atul Soni
So-far K23 and six class new syllabus books have been announced. The rest have not been announced so-far by the government. So we are hopeful and we are waiting for CBSE to announce new books for those classes.
Harshit
All right. Thank you for the answers. Thank you.
Operator
A reminder to all participants, you may please in one to ask questions. We will take the next question from the line of from Aurum Capital. Please go-ahead. Y
Niteen Dharmawat
Eah. Thank you for the opportunity. So assuming that NCF does not come in the remaining period, whatever, maybe one month, one and a half month when we can publish this for the next second make year and there is a delay over there.
Atul Soni
So if we assume that, will we still be having the double-digit growth or for this financial year or there will be a doubts on that growth? We are very confident of double-digit growth for this year. So I don’t think there is any doubt on that.
Niteen Dharmawat
Okay. Perfect. And also the margin will remain on the same line as you mentioned, right?
Atul Soni
Yes. So we are reiterating our margin band. So that remains the same. Perfect. Perfect. And since we have made some investments in, you know some of private investment it was not very audible? Can you speak a little bit louder? Am I audible now?
Niteen Dharmawat
Okay. Yeah, better, better. Okay. So my next question was about the investments that the company has made in various private entities. So one of the investments was Smart UT. So is there any exit that we are looking for or any revaluation possibilities over there of that investments that we have made.
Atul Soni
So we are not looking for an exit as of now. At the same time, the company, might raise the funds or going for a new round. So that remains to be seen. As and when that happens, then there can be a revaluation of our stake in the company. So it depends on smartability raising the next round here.
Niteen Dharmawat
Okay. So we are not sorry. And see, we are not looking to exit as of now, they are doing pretty well and we intend to ride this investment for some time. Perfect. Any other new investments that we are exploring either directly in publishing or in allied companies similar to smartivity.
Atul Soni
So see, we are always evaluating prints both in print as well as minority investments in head tech businesses. There is nothing which we can add as of now, but you know, that doesn’t mean that we are — I mean there are not things on the table. So we are always-on the lookout for good businesses at good valuations. So as of now that you know, that hunt continues for us.
Niteen Dharmawat
Perfect. My final question is, since our cash flows are very strong and we are also generating good profit and operationally, we are doing significantly well compared to what it was earlier. So is there any possibility of rewarding shareholders in terms of higher dividend or maybe some buyback considering the valuation that company is currently carrying. So is there any other possibilities that management or the Board would like to evaluate — management would like to suggest?
Atul Soni
So these options are always being considered, but I think the right name for evaluating and kind of giving to a second answer on this will be after the results — after the Q4 results are there, but the Board definitely will evaluate these options.
Niteen Dharmawat
Okay. Okay. Thank you and wishing you best. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Sanskara from Trustline Holdings. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks a lot for the opportunity. Good afternoon, everyone. Firstly, from my side, so what is our expectation on what proportion of schools currently, which we are catering to could add-up this NAP for this year and next year?
Atul Soni
Himan Suji, do you want to take that?
Himanshu Gupta
Yeah. Hi. So exact numbers are very difficult to say, but NAP adoption at last year was only in some schools around 10% to 15% of the schools. But this year, we expect around 13% 35% or even 40% schools adopting the new cylinders and going to the new LEP. But because the government has not released the complete syllabus of all the classes and all the subjects, so we expect the — full implementation to happen in next two years and then the full LEP will be implemented in all the schools in the country. And then we will be — the next two years, I think would be a good growth area for us. So we believe that the new will be implemented in next two years in all the country.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And how has been the NAP adoption rate? Has it been uniform across the country or is it different for any specific region we are seeing higher adoption?
Himanshu Gupta
Yes. But I would say gold is boldly mostly scattered all over the country. North mainly has, I would say, more of CBSC schools is dominated by CBSC schools, East and West lot of ICSE schools plus stateboard schools and the South also has some bit of CDFC school, but mostly stateboard schools. So I would say that adoption is more in North India, but I would say it’s more or less scattered all over India. So it’s not like North is an opening and South is. Both are adopting, but the number of schools in North only are both in NPS.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay. So considering over next two years, the full adoption we are expecting. So this will be a uniform growth. So are we expecting something like two to three classes added over next two each over next two years?
Himanshu Gupta
Yeah. So we are not very sure because it’s a government’s policy and government has to read a. So we expect, but next year in the coming — next accounting session, three, four classes should be added and the year-after that the complete should be implemented, but it all depends on the government’s policy. So we do not cannot comment on that, but we expect that in two years it should happen. That’s what we’re hopeful for.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. Thanks a lot and all the best. Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star in one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Anyan Jain from Bohet India Fund. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yes. Hi, sir. My question would be like do you expect in coming one, two months remaining FY ’25 government can announce credit change for additional grade for next academyth year.
Atul Soni
Sorry, can you repeat the question and can you please repeat a little louder because your voice was very muffled there.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. So I wanted to know like in — do you think in remaining part of FY ’25, that is one, two months, the government can announce change for additional grades for the next academic year or it won’t — whether we have our doubts because almost the season is almost peak right now.
Atul Soni
So it is not going to impact too much and we don’t believe that the government is coming out with new sub new books in next couple of months. So it will happen only after I would say June or July. So till that time the season would be over only. So the impact of the new syllabus change of other classes will happen in the next account session only.
Unidentified Participant
Got it. And the — your expectation is by FY ’27, government will roll-out curriculum change for all the grids. Is my understanding right? Yes, it should happen like that. That’s what we believe. Okay. And my next question was I wanted to ask about paper prices. Have they increased or decreased in last two, three months or — and what is your outlook for paper prices going ahead?
Atul Soni
Papers had decreased in the last one first-quarter and second-quarter, but from Q3, especially after Diwali, they started rising and now they have risen quite a bit, especially for the B-grade mills. And we believe that the paper prices might decrease more till March or April and then they will stabilize after the end-of-the season. And — but we can’t predict very clearly, but that’s what we believe. And we have already done our contracts and we already have purchased our paper and we are, I think well in our budget and below than the last year’s paper price. So can you tell in percentage term like what would be — what would have been the increase like after you said after Q2, it started increasing after Diwali. So what would be the increase in percentage terms? Paper prices of these mills have increased up to, I would say, anything between. It was a gradual increase, so the total prices about 73 from its lowest point to around 10% to 15%.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, got you. Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Srinath Shedhar from Infinity Financial Services. Please go-ahead.
Srinath Sridhar
Hi, good afternoon Q4. So in Q4, are you all targeting — are you all comfortably will you achieve about INR500 crores plus revenues?
Atul Soni
So see, we have given our guidance figure, okay. It’s double-digit operating revenues over last year. So we are comfortable with that guidance. So mid-teen double-digit or low-teens. So if I give that number, then obviously it is you know I would tend to go with double-digit, let’s see. We can’t give that color as of now. That’s what I’d call. We will try for high-teens, but we don’t know as of now what number we’ll exactly do because it’s a season is a very — this is a very seasonal business as you know, and everything happens in last quarter. So every day is a very important day for us. So — but we’ll try to do mid and high-teens, but let’s see, let’s hope for the best. And also your books cater to which segment like CBSE, State Board or IBC.
Himanshu Gupta
So let me let me comment on that. So basically India has a primarily if you see four structure, four tier structure for the school system. One is the highest, which is which is IB and IGCSE Board, which they have only a very handful of schools and very premium schools, which we are not very present there much because that’s dominated by foreign publishers. Second is the CBSC and the Board, which we are present fully in all the schools in the country. A third is the state board, which is the local Board, which we have in Maharashtra Board or West Board of Bihar Board. In that there are two categories of schools. One is the language, which is the local language and second is the English medium school. So English medium schools, we are present in almost — in mostly in all the target audience schools and the — as I said, the third category also has the,, we are there, but not much because they are dominated by local players. So we also have a local company like Shaya, which does local stateboard. So something similar what Nami does in Maharashtra and. So this is the clear structure. This is the structure of the way the things happen in India. And so your proportion would be mainly in CPSC., we are in mostly all the schools and state board English-language English medium schools, we are there in quite a bit of them, but not all. And in monacular, we end some of them. All right, sir. Thank you. But we cater to around 45,000 to 50,000 schools in the country
Srinath Sridhar
. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rishikesh from RoboCapital. Please go-ahead.
Rishikesh Oza
Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my question is regarding to your question of the previous participant. So what — my understanding is that the Class 4, 5 and Classes 7 to 12, they are yet to be announcing the syllabis changes, correct? That’s correct. Yes, yes, that’s correct. And we expect that by FY ’27, the syllabis should be changed in these classes. Yeah, for all the class — for all the classes and subjects.
Atul Soni
We’re hopeful for that. Okay. So for the remaining classes where the syllabis has not been changed, what would be the proportion of the revenue for these classes? I think classes levels have been changed,? No, even for seven to 12 and for four and five classes, the syllab is change has not been announced and we expect that to happen by FY ’27. So what revenues do they contribute? You mean for? Yes, yes, for. So basically K2 will be around, let’s say, 10% to 15%. Otherwise, for third and six, we do not break it out class-wise. So — but you can say from third to 8% will be another maybe 30% 40% of our revenues.
Rishikesh Oza
Okay. And we do 9% to 12% as well. A to eight is around 80% of our school revenues, okay. And our school revenues are 80%, 80% to 85% of the annual revenues. Okay. Got it. And let’s say the change is announced, what impact will it have on the revenue, what incremental revenues can generate?
Atul Soni
This year we are — I mean for this sales season, we are not hopeful that there is going to be more classes which are going to be announced. Even if they are announced, they’re not going to impact our sales much because right now, the schools are in the process of finalizing their lists and ordering. So they are not going to change their lists as of now. Now whatever impact you will have, you will have in the next sales season only. Okay, but could you quantify what impact could we have? You mean for this year? So this year I run for FY ’26 onwards. So for FY ’26, let’s — let’s wait-and-watch, let’s see how many classes are announced for and also we’ll be giving our annual guidance in May. So I think that will be a better time to talk about that.
Rishikesh Oza
Okay. Got it. Got it. And one more question, which one participant, I think asked before, that assuming that we grow by low-teens in FY ’25 also. Would it be fair to say that we’ll be doing INR500 crores, closer to INR500 crores in Q4, right?
Atul Soni
I think you can do the mathematics. We have done INR248 crores so-far for us to do at least double-digits basically let’s say 10%, 10% on — we did INR662 crores last year. So I think you can do the math there. So I don’t want to give a number. You can do the math. But I would say closer to that number, closer to that number.
Rishikesh Oza
Got it. Got it. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Lawanya Tomal, an Individual Investor. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Am I audible, sir? Yes. Yes, yes. Yes, you are. Yes, sir. So the company’s balance sheet reflects a substantial goodwill amount. Can you provide more insights into what this goodwill represents? That is my first question. And there was a recent news that NCRT has decided to drop over 100 printing agencies. Can you just confirm that whether NCR — whether Han also received direct order from NCRT for printing? And my last question is
Atul Soni
So let me answer the second question. First question will answer the second question. HCRT, yes, has dropped. We also we have heard, but we are not a part of the consortium and we don’t do anything for NCRPs. And in the future also, we don’t intend to do as of now. So we are not a part of that consortium. And one question be that because of our acquisitions which we have done in the past 10, 12-odd years, but because of that. So focuses regarding that only if you see the company’s return-on-equity, it appears to be on the lower side. So I primarily think it is because of this goodwill on our balance sheet. So could you elaborate on the key factors which you think is impacting our ROA and what specific steps the management is taking to improve this? You have correctly identified as because of the high amount of goodwill which is sitting on the balance sheet, but the acquisitions have been done long-term back and we do not intend to kind of Write-down the goodwill in any kind. So that number will stay. I mean, the balance sheet.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sir. So has company done you know, figured out whether the goodwill number is still relevant, what it has been seen since yeah, that number is basically by our every quarter. So I mean process? Hello, can you hear me, sir? Sorry? Can you hear me? I can hear you. Yeah. So I was asking like in this quarter, the company achieved gross margin of 70%. Are we like looking at the similar kind of margins in the next quarter also?
Atul Soni
Really on the gross margin on a quarter-on-quarter basis was always obviously aided by revenues, our — so on an annual basis, we have to see, we do not give a guidance on an annual gross margin, we are giving an EBITDA margin guidance. So we are sticking to that. Okay, sir. And in — I think last — last con-call you had said that company had secured multiple AI platform deals. So can you elaborate on how you know this is going-forward and what kind of revenues are we expecting from this area?
Unidentified Participant
And you also said something about LLMs, your company is partnering into. So if you could elaborate on that, sir.
Atul Soni
These are deals with global players due to contractual regulations, I cannot give their names out, but I mean, there are only a few in the world, so you can figure out. They are one of the largest players in the largest players in the world, so you low the names the terms of contact, this is an ongoing thing. So we are also at the same time approaching other players and also trying to give other content on that. So we are very hopeful that this should be a consistent stream for some time but yes, this is more of a developing revenue line for us.
Unidentified Participant
So, yeah. Okay. Thank you.
Atul Soni
We are looking for a dollar revenue number or something that we cannot give as of now. Focus is just a follow-up like in how much time are we looking to recognize this revenue for how much like — like some sense of how it is going to be set? So see the current revenues are there from two contracts. So one of the contracts was more one-time in nature and one of the contracts was a recurring two-year contract. In future, which contracts come and what are the deal construct, that will be known in due time only. So this year, we have done almost INR20 crore-plus in revenues from this stream. Maybe we will — we will see if we can guide around this thing at our annual numbers. But right now, I cannot give you more clarity than that can expect.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may please turn and one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Viraj from Simple. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. Hello. Yeah, I can hear you. Yeah. Thank you for opportunity. Just couple of questions. First is the kind of growth we are seeing over here talking about for the full financial year. Can you give some perspective on the volume and price-mix?
Atul Soni
So this year, we have taken a price hike of mid single-digits. So that much should be price hike and the remaining number whatever it comes should be volume. And the improvement in gross margin we have seen. Sorry, the improvement in gross margin which we are seeing is not clear.. Am I audible now? Yeah. Yeah. So the improvement in gross margin which we are seeing, how much of that is because of the low raw-material prices and the pricing or the curriculum change we are seeing, the next part? So some portion of it is driven by lower raw-material cost and some portion of it is because of digital revenues in the top-line.
Unidentified Participant
So can you just give some color in terms of what kind of RM would be a major part and the digital or the curriculum change would be a smaller level. So indication, not exactly, but yeah, sorry.
Atul Soni
So indicatively in this give some color, the major part would be low-volume prices or how should one digital revenues are — the gross margin for digital revenues are much higher than the and the consol number that you see is obviously a combination of digital as well as print. If I’m saying that there are INR20 crores of revenue in this, you can assume much higher gross margin for the digital business. So I think you know that should give you some idea around it.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And in the regional piece, we had also had this few one-time orders from tech managers and Pentail part. So is that reflected in the revenue in current year? And that’s reflected in the revenue wherein the revenue. So going-forward, going into FY ’26, how should one look at sustainability of this business?
Atul Soni
For FY ’26, you will have to wait till May for us to give our guidance. So this is probably too early for us to speak. We haven’t had our annual budgeting cycle. We haven’t had our — what I’ve met is over. So that will be the correct time for me to answer that question. Okay. No, what I was really trying to understand the sustainability part of this particular type of deal. Is there a certain deal or the contract period by which this can extend into multiple years or this is more of a one-year thing? Yeah. Maybe this is a — this is a — this is an area which is growing and growing fast. And so-far, we haven’t even used a small percentage — I mean so-far we have only used a very small percentage of our content library. So if I have to think like that, then I have a large content liability — library, which is still waiting to be monetized through these kind of views. So that’s all I can say. Let’s in this case, some content that we give to tech majors is on a yearly license, some content we give is on a one-time license depends on the type of the deal. So it’s mixed deal.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay, got it. Got it. Got it. And this last query was on the CBSE school coverage in our two regions and pan-India. Can you give us a perspective how is the conversion from say state boards or version to CBSE either affiliated or patent schools? How is that conversion taking shape. Any color you can give?
Atul Soni
Yeah. So this is a very regular business that we do and we’ve been doing for many decades. So we believe that 100 schools we approach for implementing or adopting our books around 60% to 70% of the schools do use our books, especially in CBSC and ICIC. And state board also the numbers quite decent and we believe that this is a percentage that we will keep on-going and giving good content and good relationships we have with schools and we provide them with a lot of support facilities also. We do a lot of workshops, we do a lot of things for the schools. So overall, our support system and relationship management and content quality and brand have been quite consistent over the years and the schools have been adopting and using our products consistently over the years. No, sir, what I meant is the conversion of state English sports, CBSC pattern or CBSC. Any trend you’re seeing in about conversion, how is that evolving or the conversion is in normal-course of business only.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. Okay. And last question was in Maharashtra and Gujarat Seaports, there is possibly announcement which we hear in the papers about them adopting CBSE content for core subjects of, plants and all. So does this in any kind of benefit us? Any update you can give?
Atul Soni
I haven’t received that news as of now, but if that happened, that will be a positive impact only for our Group, per company.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. I’ll come back-in queue. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press in one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Chandra Mali, an Individual Investor. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello, sir. Can we expect your top-line and the bottom-line to go beyond your previous peak of March 2018 first when will that happen next year if possible?
Atul Soni
Hello, 80 numbers all I don’t have as of now don’t remember 2018 numbers. Do you have the file for that? I don’t know. About INR795 crores top-line. So I think so that will be a little tough to reach, but we should — as we said earlier, we should be in the double-digit growth range. So we get to INR62 crores. I’m not asking this year. I’m only asking in the years to come next year or next for next year. It might happen, sir. It might happen for it might happen. We will try for our best, but we will be able to give you guidance only after we finish our year and maybe we’ll be able to give you a better guidance for the next year. I hope that answers your question,
Unidentified Participant
Sir. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manan Patil, an individual Investor. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Am I audible? Yes. Thank you for the opportunity, sir. So the first question is, you mentioned that you are launching a platform for acute exam. So can you throw some light on what kind of investments are you planning to make? And is it a freemium kind of product or do we have a physical presence or centers? How to think about this?, can you answer that? Hello. Atul, are you there? Asho, I think Atul, I don’t know about this.
Himanshu Gupta
Okay. So I’ll answer it. CUET, sir is basically for Center University’s examination and we have launching this — we have launched a product earlier, but that was done in a very manner. But now we are doing complete course and we are doing complete — it’s not only books, it will be a lot of other content also digital content, lot of support material and lot of other stuff that we’ll be giving. And we feel that it should do good in the market. And I think we have a budget of anything between INR1.5 crores to INR2 crores to develop this content. And after launch only we will be able to give you more feedback of how this content is doing in the market., but largely this will be a digital product, not like physical centers, it will be a mix, it will be a mixed product. It will be hiring books as well plus hiring digital support material. But we are not — we are not basically giving it. We are not going to open any centers or something to teach the students that will be done by themselves or other people. We will be giving them content only. But with the whole program, it will be like a whole program. It will not be limited to only books or digital in the mix of digital and books that will be a complete program for them.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And this will be across all the subjects like 14, 15 subjects that it will be across all the subjects, all the subjects. Understood. Understood. And sir, the next question is few months across I came across an article which mentioned that NCRT is sort of like pushing schools to use their own textbook — textbooks printed by them. And if any liability arises of not using by the — the liability goes to the principal. So like how does that affect us?
Atul Soni
So this is mainly an advisory for the schools. It’s not a compulsion to the schools. The schools have been advised by NCRT to use their books from a long-time. Since when I joined the business around 25 years back, I’ve been hearing all this that the schools are — the NCRT is pushing the schools to use the books or NCIT, but schools definitely have their own choice. They have not been compulsory pushed by the NCIT. It’s an advisory note from them and they can give the advisory note, nobody can stop them. But ultimately the choice of the is which books to use for the benefit of the students because learning material, the school also has to see the quality of the learning material and the teachers also have to give their input that which content is good for them, which content is not good for them and they have to see the basically the career of the child also because the child has to have a strong background when he goes for competitive examination, especially after 9th, 10, 10.
So the schools look at all those areas before taking a decision of which books are most suitable for their students.
Unidentified Participant
Understood. And sir, just a back follow-up on that. So what would be NCRT’s market-share in the CVSE textbooks? Exactly. I don’t have the number, but I would say NCRT has a market-share of at least, I would say, 18% to 20% in the all-India market. Okay. Okay. That’s very helpful, sir. Thanks a lot and wish you all the best. Thank you so much. I got disconnected. This time back, I’m connected. Am I audible? Yeah. Yeah, so you’re audible now. You’re audible. I’ve answered the question. Okay. Thank you.
Operator
A reminder to all participants, you may press R and one to ask questions. The next question will be the line of Lawanya Tomal from an Individual Investor. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you. Just a follow-up question, sir, about goodwill. Like why — I just wanted to know why has company chosen not to amortize it. Don’t you think periodic amortization would provide a more accurate reflection of the financial health and also award of any risk of impairment in future, sir? So we are amortizing our plant and machinery assets. But for this thing, this is a — see, we acquire — we play the goodwill for the brand, right? And the brand has a much longer life of than any five-year, 10-year period.
Atul Soni
So we can consider it, but you know, but that’s not on the cards right now. So the business is ongoing. The businesses that we purchased are ongoing to those brands continue to live in prospect. So that is why we are not looking to amortize that brand cost or the acquisition cost as of now okay.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press and gun to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Madhur Rathi from Counter Cyclic Investments. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I’m trying to understand, we used to do a margin of more than 20% before pre-COVID years. So sir, why has that declined? And when can we expect to get on this margin track again?
Atul Soni
So see, we have for this year our margin — margin brand is 17% to 19%. So let’s see how the year goes and what number do we finish the year at. Accordingly, I mean, we can — for the next year, we can give a guidance. But I would say that you know that kind of number, it’s not as if it’s undoable. So let’s see. I mean, let us finish this year and then for next year we will have a clearer idea for the margin band.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. So like just — so I understood that from Navneet is that as the volumes come in this business publishing business, the margins — incremental margins are very-high. So the can decent volume growth over the next two to three years like we are expecting a double-digit margin growth with a high double-digit kind of a margin growth with the new education policy implementation. Sir, can we expect the margins to go more than, 20% 22%? So it all depends on the rollout of the new origination policy. So if you think about it, for this year, there have been only two — two new classes for which the has been announced, third and six.
Atul Soni
So let’s see for next year — for the next one or two years, what is the kind of announcement of new subject the new classic new. So let’s say, for example, theoretically speaking, if all the classes come in one-go, you know, then you will definitely see a huge jump-in volume growth and that would lead to incremental margin increase as well. So it depends on the pace of announcements of the new syllabus by CDFC and.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, got it. So do we have some kind of an ballpark estimate like if the volumes grow by a certain amount, a certain percentage would directly flow into our margins?
Atul Soni
So I don’t think you will be able to give an answer to that. But obviously, if you can look at — you can look at the current growth that we have done probably in the last two years and where the margins have expanded in the last two years. So that is more like a normal growth. Any excessive top-line growth, 15% 20% 25% kind of range and obviously that will lead to much higher-margin growth on the EBITDA margin. So actually last couple of years back also the paper prices had increased in one financial year-by around 40% to 50%. So that also had an impact overall on the margins because we can’t increase the book price by 40% to 50%. We were able to only increase the book prices by 10% to 12% because the market cannot absorb that much. But that’s what the — I think one of the reasons of the margin impact was there after Corona. But we are looking at — looking — reaching at a 20s kind of a margin that was pre-COVID time. So we’re hopeful that in some time, we should be able to reach that number, but that we can only suggest after the years-ended and we can look at all the numbers and then come to a conclusion in that.
Unidentified Participant
Got it. Sir, just a final question from my side on the CUET perhap side, sir, this would be a pure-play a self-prep kind of we just provide material as well as to the students who are going to apply for this examination and we are just going to provide a self-prep kind of a model to the students — student will take help from their own teacher tuition center wherever they are learning that.
Atul Soni
So there is no problem with that. They can learn through that. And if they want to read it themselves without taking any help, they can do that also. So the book with the course will be completely comprehensive program and that they can use it any way they want to. But idea is that the course should be a good-quality comprehensive content and that should be catering to the needs of the current student needs whatever they have in the CUET. So we wouldn’t prepare any what you call digital content in a way where to — we are teaching it to the students. We are just preparing digital content where they can do test scrubs and all — all those segments on the and it will be a mix of — mix of physical and digital content both. It will be a mix of both. It will not be only digital or only physical.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, got it. So thank you.
Operator
There are no live glasses that is what we are thinking about. Okay, got it. Got it. Thank you, sir. Thank you. That was the last question for the day. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Himanshu Gupta
Thank you so much. Thank you, everyone, for your question. And I hope we hope you have answered them all. And if you have any further questions, you can write to the company and we’ll get back to you on that and wish you all a safe, safe health and everything happens. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you very much. On behalf of PL Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.