Rossari Biotech Ltd (NSE: ROSSARI) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated Apr. 28, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Edward Menezes — Executive Chairman and Co-Founder
Sunil Chari — Managing Director and Co-Founder
Ketan Sablok — Group Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Anoop Poojari — Analyst
Rohit Nagraj — Analyst
Ankur Periwal — Analyst
Sanjesh Jain — Analyst
Darshil Jhaveri — Analyst
Bhavin Soni — Analyst
Nitesh Dutt — Analyst
Presentation:
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Ladies and gentlemen, please stay connected. The conference call will begin in next few minutes. Thank you ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for patiently holding the line. The conference call for Rosary Biotech will begin in next few minutes. We request you to stay connected. Thank you. IT.
operator
Ladies and gentlemen. Good day and welcome to Rosary Biotech Limited’s Earnings Con Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your Touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anup Pujari from CDR India. Thank you. And over to you.
Anoop Poojari — Analyst
Thank you. Good evening everyone and thank you for joining us on Rosemary Biotech Limited Q4MFY25 earnings conference call. We have with us Mr. Edward Menezes, promoter and executive chairman, Mr. Sunil Chari, promoter and managing director and Mr. Ketan Sablop, group Chief Financial Officer of the company. We will begin the call with opening remarks from the management following which we’ll have the forum open for a question and answer session. Before we start, I would like to point out that some statements made in today’s call may be forward looking in nature and a disclaimer to this effect has been included in the earnings presentation shared with you earlier.
I would now like to invite Mr. Edward Menezes to make his opening remarks.
Edward Menezes — Executive Chairman and Co-Founder
Thank you Mr. Anuk Good evening everyone and thank you for joining us on our earnings conference call. It’s a pleasure to have you with us as we discuss our operational and financial performance. We concluded FY25 with a steady performance navigating a soft and evolving operating environment. Despite external challenges, we delivered healthy growth and maintained stable profitability reinforcing the strength of our diversified business model. Our HPPC division continue to lead our growth supported by deeper market penetration and strong traction across agrochemicals, personal care and institutional business. The TSP division remains stable despite ongoing pricing pressures in the textile industry while the reagent business showed encouraging signs of recovery backed by focused portfolio realignment initiatives at Rosari, R and D remains central to our growth strategy.
Through continuous innovation, we continue to develop tailored high performance solutions aligned with evolving market needs. A key highlight is Reena, our in house biosurfactant platform. Designed with sustainability at its core, Renewa offers health, safety and environmental benefits while enhancing application efficiency. Its adaptability makes it relevant across more than 10 industries underlining our capability to deliver cross sectoral impact through green chemistry. On the manufacturing front, we are executing multiple expansion projects to prepare for the next phase of growth. The previously announced expansions at Bhaij and Unitoc are progressing as per the revised plan with commissioning expected by Q2FY26.
In addition, we are pleased to announce further investments with an additional capex of 97 crores for expansion at our subsidiaries, unit of Chemicals and Tristar Intermediates and rupees 95 crores at Rosari Biotech. These projects, which are expected to be commissioned in a phased manner by Q4FY26 are aimed at supporting growth across key chemistries, improving operational efficiency and enhancing supply reliability. Together, these investments reinforce our commitment to building a scalable future ready platform to drive the next phase of growth. With a strong R and D engine, expanding capacity and a growing global footprint, Rosari is well positioned to lead in delivering high performance sustainable solutions across industries.
As we move forward, our focus remains on anticipating evolving customer needs, deepening our technological and operational capabilities and building a future ready organization. With this, I now invite Mr. Sunil Chari to share his thoughts. Chari to share his thoughts.
Sunil Chari — Managing Director and Co-Founder
Thank you Edward G. And a warm namaste to everyone. Our performance in financial year 2025 underscores the resilience of our diversified business model with overall revenue growth of 13.6% reflecting the strength of both our core and emerging businesses. We are particularly encouraged by the traction in new verticals such as institutional cleaning and B2C businesses. These have now scaled meaningfully and starting this quarter we are showcasing them as a distinct vertical in our earnings presentation. This business has delivered strong growth of 67% reaching almost 300 crores in revenue. FY25 leveraging cutting edge technology, deep expertise and a strong network, we are shaping the future of this consumer health and hygiene vertical.
A business that while requiring a long distinction period, holds immense strategic value through consumer trust and brand equity. While the scaling up of this emerging vertical has had a near term impact on consolidated margins, our core business continues to deliver healthy profitability. With an adjusted EBITDA range of almost approximately 15% for financial year 25, we view these investments as critical to building future ready scalable platforms. As these new businesses achieve greater scale and operating leverage, we are confident that they will drive margin expansion and enhance long term shareholder value. These verticals underscore our ability to anticipate evolving customer needs and create differentiated value added solutions aligned with future growth opportunities.
Our global business also recorded a strong year with exports growing by 27% and our presence expanding to over 70 countries. This growth reflects our focused efforts on cultivating strategic markets, deepening customer relationships and delivering innovation led customized solutions anchored by strong technical expertise. Participation in leading global forums continues to strengthen our international footprint and position us at the forefront of green solutions. With rising global interest in sustainable chemistry, we are optimistic about the long term growth potential of this business. With a strong foundation in place, we are confident in our ability to to unlock new opportunities and deliver differentiated sustainable solutions across industries.
Our growth investments, whether in capacity expansion, new verticals or innovations are a testament to our future focused strategy. As these initiatives scale, we are confident that they will generate strong returns and create lasting value for our stakeholders. We remain deeply committed to profitable growth and shareholder value creation as we embark on the next phase of our journey. We thank you for your continued support and I would now request Ketanji to share his perspectives.
Ketan Sablok — Group Chief Financial Officer
Thank you Mr. Shari and good evening everyone. Let me provide you with a brief overview of the financial performance for the quarter and the Full year ended March 31, 2025. Q4FY25 Our revenue from operations grew by 22.6% YoY to rupees 579.6 crores, reflecting a continued strength of our diversified portfolio. EBITDA for the quarter improved by 9.3% YoY to Rs 69.5 crore with an EBITDA margin of 12% compared to 13.5% in the same period last year. For the full year FY25, we crossed the 2000 crore milestone with revenue from operations reaching rupees 2,080 crores up 13.6% YoY.
EBITDA increased by 6.1% to 265.1 crore with an EBITDA margin of 12.7% compared to 13.6% in FY24. Despite the muted external environment, our performance demonstrates the resilience of our operating model and the strength of our core segments. Our Institutional and B2C business delivered strong momentum, growing by 67% YoY to reach 299 crore in FY25. As these businesses have now reached a meaningful scale and being more consumer focused, we have decided to showcase them separately starting this quarter. We are confident that they will continue to scale meaningfully in the years ahead. It is important to note that ongoing investments in new business verticals have impacted reporting margins.
However, profitability in our core business remains robust. Adjusted for institutional and B2C business, Rosari Biotech consolidated EBITDA margins to the healthy at 15% reflecting the strength of our base business fundamentals, expenses have gone up during the year. Much of these is in line with our growth initiatives, planned expansions and some businesses being in their growth phase. We remain confident that as these initiatives achieve scale and reach operational maturity, they will contribute to margin improvement in the future. During the year we continued to invest strategically to build future ready capabilities. The Board has approved a total capex of approximately 192 crores covering expansion at our site.
These projects, expected to be commissioned in a phased manner by Q4 of FY26, are aimed at strengthening our production capabilities, enhancing supply reliability and supporting scalable and sustainable growth. On the working capital front, we have improved slightly by two days compared to last year. Inventory levels increased. This is in line with our strategy to build stocks in March 2025 ahead of the upcoming agro season and a planned supplier shutdown. Receivables have come down by two days and we are targeting to further improvement through FY26. We are taking proactive steps to streamline working capital across businesses and will continue to monitor this closely.
Our balance sheet remains healthy with strong liquidity and comfortable leverage levels. Additionally, the Board has recommended a dividend of rupees 0.5 per share for FY25. As we move into FY26, our focus will be on executing growth initiatives with discipline, improving margins as operating leverage builds up and driving sustainable profitable growth to create long term stakeholder value. On this note, I conclude my opening remarks and request the moderator to open the forum for questions that you may have. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
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Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star N1 on the Touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press STAR and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We’ll take our first question from the line of Rohit Nagraj from BNK Securities. Please go ahead.
Rohit Nagraj
Thanks for the opportunity and thanks for sharing the separate data for institutional business. I hope it continues on a quarterly basis. Just one more suggestion. Now, since we have bifurcated the HPC business, if you can also share the HPC non agro and agro bifurcation, I think that would also be really helpful in terms of understanding the dynamics of the business on a quarterly basis. So that’s just one suggestion before I go on for the first question. So the first question is in terms of the CapEx that we have announced the 192 crores for both Unitop as well as for Rosari and we are currently in phase of the execution of the earlier capex.
So what has changed in terms of visibility to go ahead before completing the earlier phase of capex and to go with a new phase of CAPEX in the same facilities. So if you can give a broader picture how do we foresee the implications of the CAPEX over the next three, four years? It will be great. Thank you.
Ketan Sablok
So Rohit, thanks for the question. First on the CapEx, the current CapEx that is going on, that’s more on the ethoxylation capacity expansion that we are doing that is expected to come on stream by Q2 of FY26 and these CapExes, the current Capexes which we have announced, they are a mix of new initiatives and some new products. Again of course in our key core chemistry these are phased out over the full year so most of these will probably start being completed towards the end of the financial year and then they will start seeing some numbers from these in the following year.
To give you a brief on what these capex are I think I’ll ask Mr. Chari to just give you a brief on what the products are.
Sunil Chari
The focus on the new expansion is practically non EO because EO got delayed from Reliance but we are expecting usage of the new EO facilities including MDA to start in the next quarter. Our loop reactor also will be fully functional in the next quarter and the new expansion is for non EO products which are already raw materials which will procure from outside which includes exters and a lot of monomers. If we buy from outside we would like to backward integrate and there are a couple of new chemistries which we are trying to explore in the melitic space.
Last year we did practically very little capex and as you know Rosari, we are at zero term loan and zero CC status. In fact we have cash on the balance sheet around 31st March 2025 and similarly unit of we did not we had planned for a bigger expansion we did about I think 95 crores which we invested in unitop and so we see simultaneously both these expansions to give good revenues in the coming financial year.
Rohit Nagraj
So just one clarification earlier for the ongoing CapEx we had said that 3.5 to 4x asset terms for this new CapEx including the backward integration what could be the asset terms that can be looked at.
Sunil Chari
Around 2 to 3 should be because there’s the backward integration. So around 2 to 3 should not be an issue.
Rohit Nagraj
Fair enough. So the second question in terms of the HPC segment, so last year we have seen a single digit growth excluding the institutional business. How are we looking at in FY26 and what could be the potential areas of growth to take it to a double digit? Thank you.
Sunil Chari
So as you know we had limitations on availability of ethylene oxide in the last financial year and we continue to think that, you know, we should get the new EU expansion at Reliance from which there will get a real soon. The only reason for, you know, what was we had, you know, limitations, those limitations was because of ethylene oxide.
Rohit Nagraj
Okay. And so this year, at least for the first half again that challenge would continue. So probably for this year also we may have maybe just touching the double digit or maybe higher single digit growth on hpp.
Sunil Chari
I think it’s Krishna.
Ketan Sablok
So Rohit, this year we are already in discussion with Reliance. They have promised us higher availability of eo. So my take is that for the ethoxylates part in the HPVC business we should see a low single digit, low double digit kind of growth. So around 10% or something. But there are a lot of non EO initiatives that we have worked through the last year. I think some of them will we see some bit of that execution start happening now in the current year. So I think we are optimistic that some of these new non EU products that R and D has worked out, we should see some traction of that in the current year.
So we should see an overall a low double digit to a mid teens kind of a growth in the HPPC business.
Rohit Nagraj
Yeah, that’s helpful. Thanks a lot and I’ll come back.
Sunil Chari
Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Ankur Perival from Access Capital. Please go ahead.
Ankur Periwal
Yeah, hi sir, thanks for the opportunity. I hope I’m audible. Yeah. So you know, a couple of questions. So one on the margin front. So if I look at the annual numbers, the standalone business and the subsidiaries and you know, since you have mentioned Brazil number separately, so looking at all the three, you know, margin profiles there and seeking your outlook. So on the standalone side, while I understand the capacities are slightly underutilized broadly these are the margins level that one should take into consideration going ahead.
Ketan Sablok
Yes. So shown off the consumer business, I think we should be in this range of 14 and a half to 15%.
Ankur Periwal
Sure. And this is obviously considering an early double digit sort of a growth in the hdd. And will that also imply a similar growth rate for the overall standalone business or standalone could be slower because of the other segments being not as much on the higher side.
Ketan Sablok
Yeah. But overall also we expect the business to grow at least at the mid teens level. Okay, great.
Ankur Periwal
On the Brazil side, you know, while the scale, the ramp up that we have seen in the business is pretty impressive, but I’m slightly taken aback by the margins over there. So till last year at around 180 odd crores, we are still making a positive EBITDA. But with an incremental revenue of 120 crores, the overall EBITDA has turned negative. If you can help us better understand, you know, this much.
Ketan Sablok
So Ankur, we are still in the process of investing in this business in terms of manpower expenses, selling, distribution, setting up network distributors, etc. So currently it would be better if we look at this business more on the amount of revenues we can generate from it. So I think it’s not proper to read it in a manner that, you know, 124 crores of additional sales are bought in 10 crores of dip in the EBITDA. This business has to reach a certain bit of scale for the EBITDA to start showing a positive number on a continuous basis year on year.
Our objective, the primary objective now is to keep growing this business and FY26. We hope that this business on an overall basis, the institutional and the consumer business will start showing some positive EBITDA on an annualized basis. We should see some low single digit kind of an ebitda number for FY26. Sure.
Ankur Periwal
Getanvai. Just on the gross margin front, if you can broadly suggest how has been the performance for Brazil for this year and for last year, gross margins overall.
Ketan Sablok
Has been in the range of 26 to 27%. It’s been the same range for this year as well as the last year.
Ankur Periwal
Okay, great. And just last bit, the capex breakup that you highlighted, what will be the broad spend on the backward integration and what could be for the front end, you know, products and just related question there, the products that we are looking at, these are new products or increase in capacity for the existing ones?
Sunil Chari
No, in terms of planning for the new expansion, but also go as sales to our various customers. So this would be all derivatives which we know we have been making in small quantities or there will be some new products. I cannot give you a bifurcation of exactly how much quantity will go into in house formulations or in house reaction products of Rosario and Unitov, but there would be a synergy where there is lot of products which will go into our own production. And there are some certain new chemistries which we are targeting this year. And this includes the trimelytic anhydride and certain new chemistry which we have there.
And the last one year we have strengthened our R and D by nearly 3, 3 times the number of people we have added in R and D. And these have come up with a lot of new products which we are trying to go into areas which we know. So for areas which we know is home and personal care, areas which we know is oil and gas area, pharma, agro and paints and coatings and of course the textile industry. So we will. And you know these new capacities to get into products which have been developed in the R and D in the next 12 months.
Ankur Periwal
That’s helpful. Charji, thanks a lot for the reply. Thank you and all the best.
Sunil Chari
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Sanjesh Jain from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Sanjesh Jain
Good evening sir. Thanks for taking my questions. First on understanding this institutional and B2C. When it’s a B2C what will you.
Ketan Sablok
Be a little louder please?
Sanjesh Jain
Is it good now?
Ketan Sablok
Yes, sir.
Sanjesh Jain
Okay, thank you. Thank you. First question is understanding this breakup of institutional and B2C. When you say B2C what does it really constitute?
Ketan Sablok
So when we say B2C it constitutes our pet care business which is a direct consumer. And there are some businesses which we have, we started seeding now which also go indirectly in the consumer side in terms of aluminum foil, some tissues and things like.
Sanjesh Jain
Okay, these are largely trading businesses, right?
Ketan Sablok
No, no, no, these are not trading. We started manufacturing. Pet care is a completely in house manufactured pet care.
Sanjesh Jain
Pet care, I understand. But tissues, aluminum foil, we do manufacturing in them.
Ketan Sablok
When we started off, we started feeding the market more as trading. But over the last year we have set up our own small setup for tissues and all. And we are also getting some part of it, getting job work done. So kind of a tool manufacturing. But our plan is that over the next year, I mean the current year, we will try to move most of it into an in house kind of production facility.
Sanjesh Jain
But these are not chemicals, right? These are.
Ketan Sablok
Yeah, these are more consumer products. But many of them actually go into our institutions also. So along with our institution chemicals, lot of these ancillary products like tissues and foils also go into those institutions. So partly they go into the institution and partly they are also trying to brand them. And put it to Sanjay Ji to.
Sunil Chari
Add here and Chari here to add to what Kiran sir said, institutional business. Our major competitors are companies like Ecolab and Diversey and this Ecolab and Diversey, when they go to a consumer, for example we go to a five star hotel and they need to be a one stop shop. So that made us, you know, get into these allied businesses. So which includes, you know, hygiene chemicals, which include disinfectants, which includes hand washes, clothing, carpet cleaners but also it includes tissues because wipes and tissues are integral part of hygiene, health and hygiene platform. And the foil business came to it.
And when we saw the Foil business which concluded we saw without investing too much, we could scale this up. And this is scaled up very well. The pet business is something which we are looking at. And in the last one year, if you see our gross margins on the console front have improved over the previous year. We have had EBITDA which is the highest in our history. Our total sales, Sanjay has been the highest in the history. And even our adjusted ebitda for the B2B businesses which is business has been nearly 15%. So we see, you know, when we go to a customer like a Taj Hotel or ITC hotel or a Marriott or a Hayyak or a Hilton, we need to be on shop shop otherwise they will not entertain us.
The second part also is when we talk of discounts, all this in a whole the discounts are counted by the customer. They do not look at only chemicals discount. And this is one of the biggest shuts for Indian hotel chains in India. They asked us to do altogether. They will not entertain us only for the chemical business. The hospital disinfectant business is also scaling up well there and we see a good scope for products which go into hospital which these are produced by big multinational companies like 3M and Bortemi which is like Stellarium. And the amount of health care which is there which is growing in the country, we see, you know, together as a full basket which could go together.
Sanjesh Jain
No, I appreciate that but I still don’t understand the logic for going with these things. For B2C B2B I get your point. It’s a portfolio that we are trying to sell. But in B2C what are we trying to do there?
Sunil Chari
Pet care is something which we said. We have been pet care was since the IPO time. I understand that that was a very good proposition we had. But tissues and aluminium foil, that’s a complete. If you see, if you, if you. Go to a Reliance retail today or a Lulu, you will see our fleshy now in this. So these are in the same machines are going and because we don’t have to create any additional manufacturing infrastructure, we have to fill up the machines. This is what is done and we see a good future for creating these consumer businesses.
Sanjesh Jain
Got it. Next, on the cost side, the inflation looks way too steep capping any operating leverage in the business. The employee cost on a yoy basis is of 42% and other expenses are up 59%. Can you help us understand which of the cost line items is seeing such a steep inflation? Because I think we haven’t added any capacity to that extent. The utility cost would be capped which is a major cost. What is driving a 42% growth in employee cost and a 59% growth in other expenses.
Ketan Sablok
Yes. So overall the production has gone up. The overall sales has gone up. I’m talking about a full year kind of scenario. So the cost in terms of freight, etc. Have gone up. There’s a lot of expenses we’ve done on the sales side in terms of selling expenses. Travel has gone up significantly. So you see in the last two years, when I say two years I mean FY24 and 23 for reasons of business not really scaling up the way we would have liked it. We were very, very cost conscious. We did not really go all out in terms of expensing for our products, businesses getting into new geographies and things like that.
Last year we aggressive in terms of going into new markets, doing a little more expense in terms of travel, in terms of exhibitions which we were not doing. And if you see our overall terms in terms of number of people, the headcount has gone up roughly by about between the two years by about 140, 45 people. There have been increases in the consumer business. Major increases have happened there. But even in the core businesses we have added a lot of people on the sales side as well as in the R and D about these businesses.
Achary this spoke we have added R and D centers at Tristar at their site and we’ve also brought in few more R and D people at the Dhayed facility. Currently we are also looking at scaling up the R and D in Mumbai. So we brought in a few more senior people on the R and D side will be working out of Mumbai. So that facility should be coming later this year. So these are a few of the areas where the expenses have gone up. So yeah, while the increase as I said has been a little steep but then it’s a mix of future growth initiatives are expansions and of course some businesses like consumer which are on the growth field where the expenses have been a little more steeper.
Sanjesh Jain
One should assume that they should peak out in terms of growth right next year the cost line inflation.
Ketan Sablok
So my take is that the current quarterly run rate we should be around that for the next year. So employee cost, my expectation is that we will be at that 35 crore kind of run rate and the other expenses should be around 65 plus minus per quarter.
Sanjesh Jain
Got it, Got it. Because what we are missing is that though revenue is coming, gross profit is also coming. But that’s not translating into ebitda. Right? It appears that we are not translating the gross profit into EBITDA or this gross profit is coming at a significantly higher cost.
Ketan Sablok
Yes. So as I said, some of these costs have been a little upfront. If you see Shawn of the BRPL and the PET business, I think the core business has done pretty well. The costs have not really gone up significantly there if you take those numbers out. But having said that I think your point is well taken. We have spent a lot in this year. Much of this I think we should see the paybacks of the ROIs coming up in FY26.
Sanjesh Jain
In FY26 what are we looking in margin? Should we again hit back that 13% run rate because we have fallen to 12.
Ketan Sablok
Yes. So of the core business as I said we should we are targeting 14.5 to 15% the EBITDA margins.
Sanjesh Jain
No, but on overall or company basis because two quarterback in 2Q we were doing consistently 13, 13 and a half percent that has.
Ketan Sablok
So as of now our take is that the way the consumer BRDL business is also growing we should stick to that number of 13 to 13 and a half.
Sanjesh Jain
Got it, got it. The follow up question is on the capex I put our except you we had enough capacity in the rosary biotech particularly I think last time when we discussed our utilization was 55, 60%. Any reason for suddenly expansion into the Rosary side?
Sunil Chari
So Sanjay, our capacity is more on the formulation front and whatever capacity we are adding is on the synthesis of the reaction reaction.
Sanjesh Jain
We are putting them the reactors now.
Sunil Chari
So we are putting up all reactions and new, you know kind of chemistry which we are doing of course catering to the same customers where we are, where our focus is on home and personal care. Oil and gas is one business which we look at scaling up. Pharma is one which we are trying.
Sanjesh Jain
To scale up oil and gas.
Sunil Chari
So this year we last year we do not if you see last since ipo we have not done any capex. Last year we did some, Some I think 30 crores and we did in the MD plant basically in. So this.
Sanjesh Jain
We added a very. We doubled the capacity. Right. We added almost 1 lakh last year.
Ketan Sablok
We put 90 crore first time in.
Sunil Chari
5 years in unit of.
Sanjesh Jain
Okay, you’re talking about unit of. Sorry, I was, I was confusing Rosary.
Sunil Chari
We did only 30. 30 crores last year.
Sanjesh Jain
So monomer. I thought we were doing only acrylic polymer now. Have you added any other chemistry in the monomer side?
Sunil Chari
For example Capex or ongoing capex? There are two parts which we are doing. One is in Rosario. I’m talking about now. One is what is. We are doing the premix and the vitamin premix and the trace mineral premix that continuous automation plant we are putting up. The second part which we are doing is the biosurfactant which we see. You know Edwards also spoke about the renewal platform. We are trying to add a big fermenter there and increase the production of our viral surfactants line. These are two areas. But we also are trying to increase our backward integration for unit of raw materials which include various esters, various phenols and a lot of other products which go as raw material.
And this could be related to vegetable oils, various chemicals. It could also be. So these are all capacities which we are trying to put up so that we are a completely integrated unit and we earn the benefits in the year to come.
Sanjesh Jain
Got it, got it. Just wanted to understand a little bit on this renewal platform, what exactly are we trying to do here? Is it the same surfactants? I thought we were using oleo. Right. So it was naturally a green surfactant. So when we say renewal platform, what really the different from that? Palm oil based surfactants?
Edward Menezes
No, no, no. Palm oil based surfactants are synthetic.
Sanjesh Jain
You know palm oil SLS and sls. Correct, correct.
Edward Menezes
We are not talking about those surfactants. I’m Edward here incidentally.
Sanjesh Jain
Hi sir.
Edward Menezes
And the Renova platform is basically for sulfurolipids and other kinds of lipids that.
Sunil Chari
We are working on.
Edward Menezes
So for lipids we had I would say a small production plant bigger than the pilot scale and now we are adding more capacity because this has been successful and commercialized very successfully. So this platform is. Over the years we found that not only in personal care but these soprolipids now can be marketed to many other industries including textiles, coating, animal health and nutrition, food, etc. So that made us going for that expansion to manufacture the sulfurolipids platform. Now sulfurolipids is manufactured from vegetable oils and initially we started with a particular vegetable oil. Now in the last one year we have a platform where we can use.
Various vegetable oils to produce a different. Different qualities of sofrolips.
Sanjesh Jain
Got it, got it. And they find application as what is effectant, they add more cleaning or what is the characteristics which these lipids add to the product.
Edward Menezes
So the soforolipids or these myosurfactants, they have the ability to enhance the application efficiency. Basically they enhance the application efficiency. I mean to say normal surfactants if you have to use say 1%, then this surfactant you have to use at like 50 ppm or 100 ppm. So they have very high efficiency to take the actives onto the substrate. So application efficiency increases considerably. Therefore we have found that if you add these along with other surfactants, especially in emulsification, in agro formulations, the stability and the amount of, you know, the amount of surfactant required, that all changes and gives you a much better product.
Sanjesh Jain
And these are biodegradable, hence it is biosurfactant. Or we use lesser quantity, hence it is a biosurfactant.
Edward Menezes
No, no, completely biodegradable. It is made on vegetable oil.
Sanjesh Jain
Okay, okay. It doesn’t get into the chemical characteristics like SLE or an sls.
Ketan Sablok
No different.
Sanjesh Jain
Very clear, very clear. And what will be the capacity utilization for us right now in Rosari, Unitech and Tristar?
Ketan Sablok
So currently on the top tension side we are completely utilized in unit of Tristar. And then so overall our capacity utilization apart from that would be in that range of 50 to 55% on the formulation.
Sanjesh Jain
Got it, got it. One last question. We are coming up with very large EO capacity starting to Q26. Have we ensured that we get enough raw material to run them full? How are the discussions for procurement of ethylene oxide.
Sunil Chari
For this year? The reliance expansion is delayed a little and we are expecting confirmation from reliance for the new EO supply. But at the moment if there is constraint on EO supply, we will give the EO to the maximum margin products rather than working on lower margins. So in any case we should see a better profit amounts EBITDA amount than last year even if there is no additional EO available. But we are hopeful that we will have a little more EO available than last year.
Sanjesh Jain
That means the new plant cannot run. Right. Because we don’t have the raw material. And, and if we are talking of the same new availability A little bit better. That should suffice. The existing plant. What about this large new plant which.
Ketan Sablok
You are coming now?
Sunil Chari
What we have is we have the NBA plant, we have the pharma, we have products in ethos for home personal care, for oil and gas, for agro. So we now have have diversity in what we make and the flexibility to sell to customers who gives us a higher margin. In all cases we should do better than last year.
Ketan Sablok
That could have been done by the.
Sanjesh Jain
Existing client or not. How this new client will help us?
Sunil Chari
Continuous recaps. We did not have continuous recapsulation so we could add a lot of new chemistries, especially on amine, on gas ripping agents, H2S scavengers. So these are a lot of new possibilities which can come up with the same EO molecule.
Sanjesh Jain
So these plants will also enhance our capability to use EO in a much better way than what we were doing earlier.
Sunil Chari
Yes, the new plant is a continuous plant. So the continuous plant of course in terms of output would be much better than the batch plants. But in continuous plants we require larger run products. In batch you can take even a 10 kilo, 20 kilo, 50 kilo batch. But in a continuous we cannot take smaller batches. So both have their pluses and minuses.
Sanjesh Jain
Got it. Got it.
Sunil Chari
We are also looking at derivatives of whatever we make in those contiguous isoxidation plants to make derivatives from that Sanjay which can give us higher margin products. So for example, we make Amine. For example MDA Amine or M EAA Amine. These amines we can do for the reactions and make some derivatives. And we are looking at those possibilities in our R and D setup.
Sanjesh Jain
Got it. Got it. Very clear. Very clear. Thanks for answering all those questions patiently and thank you.
operator
Thank you. Before we take the next question, would like to remind participants to press star and one to ask a question. We’ll take our next question from the line of Darshil Zaveri from Crown Capital. Please go ahead. Daran.
Darshil Jhaveri
Hello. Hello. Good evening. Hopefully I’m sure.
operator
Yes, please go ahead.
Darshil Jhaveri
Yeah. Yeah. Hi. Hi sir. So. So I just wanted to know. A lot of my questions have already been answered. So with regards to guidance that we are giving.
operator
You’re sounding muffled. Can you use your handset mode?
Darshil Jhaveri
Hello.
Darshil Jhaveri
Is this the. Hello.
operator
Yeah, please.
Darshil Jhaveri
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So just want to ask regarding the guidance that we are giving. Like I think overall company are expecting.
operator
Sounding muffled D.
Darshil Jhaveri
Hello. Hello. Is this better? Hello.
operator
Yeah, a little better.
Darshil Jhaveri
Yeah. Hi. Hi. So. So just wanted to know like our Q4 run rate itself is around 580 crores and if we annualize, you know we should already be at mid teens growth. So with the new Capex you should be aiming for higher growth. Right?
Ketan Sablok
We should not take the Q4 because they are in some cases Q1, Q2s are a stronger quarter with agro, you know happening in those quarters. Q3, Q4 has generally been a a little slowish quarter. Of course this year we broke that thought also. Yeah, that being so so but I think currently the way as Mr. Chari just spoke about your availability etc. On an annualized basis we would stick to that 50% kind of top line and growth. That’s what we are looking at literally today.
Darshil Jhaveri
Oh okay, fair enough. So if I could ask with about like FY27 both of our Capexes would come online right at that point of time what kind of growth we would see like you know and Even like our B2C business I think we should be EBITDA break even by that time. So you know at that time also accretion could start so the backward integration. So maybe like FY26 we you know finalizing getting all the things together and then FY27 can be a big bang yourself. Like is that fair way that company is looking at it?
Ketan Sablok
Yes, I think that’s what is our understanding. 27 should be, should be a much better year because Identity Capex is on stream. Hopefully the availability issues will also get resolved. The additional your capacities will all come through. So if all these things fall in place, I think that should be a stronger year for us.
Darshil Jhaveri
Just like what is our like you know, maybe five years within like a three year within that like right. Like for next year it’s quite clear what we are seeing. But maybe you know, two, three years down the line. How are we seeing it? Like what, where do we want to stand at? Sir.
Sunil Chari
At the moment we have done some expansion last year and we are planning some expansion this year. Now looking at the global scenario, you know with the geographical war situations in India subcontinent but also China, Taiwan and Iran and Ukraine, all these issues, we are still not certain. With the tariffs we are not certain. So at the moment we are not clear on what the future is. The skies are not clear, the path is not clear, we are not able to tell you but based on what we have done till now, the consumer businesses should be profitable.
In 27 our expansion should all be online, we should have higher. 27 should be a very good year. That is what we can say. I cannot talk about 28, 2020 at this moment. If you had asked me six months back would have been different. But now it is. I’m. I’m completely clueless on what to do.
Darshil Jhaveri
Okay, Fair. Fair enough, sir. Yeah, that’s it. From my side. So all the best. Thank you.
Ketan Sablok
Thank you.
Sunil Chari
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Nitesh Dut from Anandrati. Please go ahead.
Nitesh Dutt
Hello. Yeah, good evening team. Thanks for the opportunity. So my first question is on you know, acrylic acid. Just wanted to check on how much would be acrylic acid as you know, as a percentage of our total input cost. You know, say how much was it for FY25?
Sunil Chari
Actually this is a very small item. Ethylene oxide is a major item. But now we have a huge number of raw materials which includes vegetable oil. So it will be a very, very small percentage now. And now acrylic acid is available locally from Bharat Petroleum Corporation limited from the Kochi refinery. So it is not so much of a worry. Because previously there was no manufacture of acrylic acid in India. Now acrylic acid is only. Practically everything is being sold by bpcn. Previous companies like lg, Sumicomo and also the Chinese players were dumping. But now BPC is very ably managing the situation and imports are not coming now.
Very little imports of acrylic acid is coming now.
Nitesh Dutt
Okay, so you mean to say acrylic acid prices moved up around 10% sequentially. So that would not have any role in lifting your realizations possibly in the.
Sunil Chari
No, no. Now it is now it is much, much lesser consumption of acrylic acid than in the past. So it doesn’t, doesn’t affect so much. Of course you know, acrylic acid pilot going up, hit our loss margins. But it is not such a big hit what it was previously understood.
Nitesh Dutt
So just a couple of bookkeeping questions. So how much was the exports during Q4 FY25 and for the corresponding period last year.
Ketan Sablok
Q4 exports was about 162 crores. And last year it was about 127 crores.
Nitesh Dutt
All right. And could you also share maybe? I, you know it wasn’t clear in the previous participants question. The standalone, I mean the capacity utilization, you know, numbers if you can share unit wise for Q4 and for overall for FY25.
Ketan Sablok
So I think I just talked about that. On the fluxellation front we are almost at peak utilization and on the formulation side we are at about 50, 55% kind of utilization.
Nitesh Dutt
All right. Okay, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Bhavan Soni from BNK Securities. Please go ahead.
Bhavin Soni
Good evening, sir. Am I audible?
operator
Yes, please go ahead.
Bhavin Soni
Hi. I just wanted a clarity with respect.
Sunil Chari
To textile specialty chemicals. So you had highlighted in previous calls that you’re targeting Bangladesh to become a 100 crore geography. So wanted to know the progress on that and how is it shaping up and anything if you can highlight on the geopolitical issues. Also at the moment for us the Trump tariffs seem to be a blessing rather than a curse. The Trump tariffs is more on China and it is even more on Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia. So for us the area is in Bangladesh. You know, the major exports from Bangladesh was to Europe. So in terms of geopolitical issues now I don’t see any major setback towards exports or even domestic on all these issues.
Ketan Sablok
So just to add to that, the, you know, the demand from Bangladesh is not that. It’s, it’s, you know, come down significantly. We have strong demand requirement but we are being a little careful on what customers to work with. Keeping in mind that, you know, they have issues on the foreign currency, etc. So we are going a little slow in Bangladesh, but I think seeing that the current issues in Bangladesh, we also started looking at other geographies to grow our textile exports. So some of the countries in southeast also looking at Egypt and Turkey. So these are going to be some of the other key markets.
Hopefully these ones that, you know, make up for any of the deficit which happens in Bangladesh and maybe a little more than that. So we are keeping Bangladesh warm. We are still supplying material to Bangladesh but to the customers of our choice.
Bhavin Soni
Okay, thank you.
operator
Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Rohit Nagraj from BNK Securities. Please go ahead.
Rohit Nagraj
Thanks for the follow up. Just one question. What is the debt for FY26? I mean we are in debt after all the capacity expansions are completed. And what is likely to be the cost of debt? Thank you.
Ketan Sablok
So FY25 we were at about net debt of. So some of the new capexes will come up during the year. So I think we should be at a level of at least twice of what we currently have.
Rohit Nagraj
And the average cost of debt. We.
Ketan Sablok
Are at about 8% kind of cost.
Rohit Nagraj
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen. To ask a question, please press RN1 on your phone. As there are no further questions, I now hand over the call to management for closing comments. Over to you.
Edward Menezes
Yeah. Thank you everyone. I hope we have been able to answer all your questions satisfactorily. Should you need any further clarifications or would like to know more about the company, please feel free to contact our team or cdr. Thank you once again for taking the time to join us on this call.
operator
Thank you members of the management team, on behalf of Rosary Biotech Ltd. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and can you may now disconnect your lines?
operator
SA.