RITES Limited (NSE: RITES) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 15, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Rahul Mithal — Chairman & Managing Director
Analysts:
Anand Bhaskaran — Analyst
Nemish Sundar — Analyst
Uttam Kumar — Analyst
Shreyans Mehta — Analyst
Viraj Mithani — Analyst
Parimal Mithani — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Presentation:
Operator
Good morning ladies and gentlemen. I am Pelshia, Moderator for this conference. Welcome to the conference call of rights limited to discuss its Q4, FY25 and FY25 results.
We have with us today Sri Rahul Mittal, Chairman and Managing Director Dr. Deepak Tripathi Director Technical and Director Project Additional Charge and Sri Krishna Gopal Agarwal, Director Finance and Chief Financial Officer. At this moment all participants are in the listen only mode.
Later we will conduct a question and answer session at that time. If you have a question please press star and one on your telephone keypad. Please note this conference is being recorded.
In the interest of time and fairness to all participants you are requested to restrict yourself to one question per participant. Time permits you may come back in the question queue.
I would now like to hand over the floor to Sri Raghul Mittal, Chairman and Managing Director Rights Limited.
Thank you. And over to you sir.
Rahul Mithal — Chairman & Managing Director
So morning everyone.
To begin with let me give you the safe harbor statement. The presentation and press release which we are uploaded on our website yesterday and discussion during the call today may have some forward looking statements. These statements are considering the environment we see as of today and obviously carry a risk in terms of uncertainty because of which the actual results could be different and we do not undertake to update those statements periodically.
So with that let me give you a brief overview of the performance in quarter four and the FY overall. You see the performance in Q4 is in line with our two pronged business focused strategy of improved execution and aggressive order inflow. If you recall at the end of quarter three we had given a guidance that we’ll make all out efforts in quarter four to try and peg back and come as closer to as possible to FY23 24 and we’ll try and get the revenue dip to below 10%, profits dip to below 20%.
The operational efficiency and the focus approached in Q4 helped us achieve on an overall at the end of the FY dip in revenue of 8% and PAT dip in 14%. Further the aggressive order inflow we maintained the strike rate of more than one order a day. The strike rate of one export order a quarter.
We got more than 150 plus orders totaling to 1400 crores in Q4 and ending the SY with an all time high order book of nearly 9000 crore 8900 crores. So that in a nutshell is the performance of Q4 and the FY in total. I leave the floor open for questions now.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you. Now we begin the question and answer session. If you Have a question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad.
In the interest of time and fairness to all participants, you are requested to restrict yourself to one question per participant. Time permits you may join back the queue.
Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad.
We will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad.
The first question comes from Anand Bhaskaran from Kisima Wealth Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Anand Bhaskaran
Good morning, can you hear me?
Rahul Mithal
Yeah, morning Anand. Go ahead.
Anand Bhaskaran
Yeah. So regarding your export book, as per the previous for Q3, you mentioned that some of the orders like the supply of 10 locomotives to Mozambique and supplier 200 number of broad gauge coaches that will be completed in 2029 but realization will come in the next quarter of FY26. Is that still on the plan or is it still delayed?
Rahul Mithal
No, no, I didn’t get your question. You see. Let me again Clarify. There are two orders. One is 10 locomotives to Mozambique and 200 coaches to Bangladesh. What we had said in Q3 is that starting this FY, that is FY 2526, the deliveries will start and aiming at least that from quarter one latest or beginning of quarter two, both these deliveries, the locomotives will start and the coaches will start from the balance from the latter part of the fy. And that’s still on track.
Anand Bhaskaran
Okay, that’s deliveries will happen. But you also mentioned the realization will start taking place within Q1 as well.
Rahul Mithal
Yeah. So the way it works in export orders is that number one, the realization takes place of revenue only when the actual bill of lading is made at the ports. So even if the product is ready, it is shipped and the day it is shipped, we get the revenue. So that is still on track. As I said, we are aiming to maybe latest by end of Q1 or early Q2, the locomotives delivery will start out of the 10 part deliveries will start because there has to be a minimum number of quantity which is also. Then you get the birth in the shipping in the ship and the coaches.
We are aiming by latter part of the FY out of the 200 coaches, some basic initial lots of coaches will start deliveries.
Anand Bhaskaran
Okay. Okay. And you also mentioned the revenue guidance and the top name and bottom guidance for next year also. But do you have a sense of what will be the revenue mix for the FY26?
Rahul Mithal
Yeah. So I’ll answer this question. But I’ll request you that as I said at the outset we’ll answer one question at a time. You can come back in the queue. But this being the first question, I’ll answer that. You see, as we said at the, at the end of Q3 and we maintain that also at the end of the FY, that having now completed the FY with the highest ever order book of nearing 9000 crore, 8900 crores, we are aspiring to reach the highest ever revenue, reach the record of highest ever revenue in the coming FY.
And we are aiming to get about 20% growth in the top line and commensurate growth in the bottom line. And that guidance which we are aiming for at the end of Q3, that gets substantiated, we are still on track on the same guidance in view of the continued order book inflow in Q4 as well as the operational efficiency which we demonstrated in Q4.
Anand Bhaskaran
Okay, what will be the expected revenue mix
Rahul Mithal
For the next question?
Operator
We are requested to restrict yourself to one question per participant. The next question is from Nimesh Sundar from Elara Capital. Please go ahead.
Nemish Sundar
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity, sir. Am I audible?
Rahul Mithal
Yeah, go ahead. Morning.
Nemish Sundar
Yeah, so congratulations on a very good set of numbers during the quarter. So some margins saw really impressive rise during this quarter. So around 30%. So how would be this run rate going forward on a sustainable basis with exports kick in from FY26?
Rahul Mithal
Yeah. Morning. You see the margins in Q4, I would not advise you to see them in isolation. The margins, if you see on an overall FY, give you the real picture and an overall FY, the EBITDA margins are at about 23% and the PAT margins are at about 18%. And moving forward, as you see the split in our order book, more and more it is tending every passing quarter to have more orders on the compoted basis. And as the higher margin orders start reaching their completion moving forward, as I have been indicating in the previous quarters, also on an overall FY basis, we feel that the expected range of EBITDA margin would be about 20 odd percent and PAT margins would be about 15 to 16%.
Nemish Sundar
Okay, thank you, sir. I’ll get back in with you.
Rahul Mithal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from Uttam Kumar Semal from Axis Securities Limited. Please go ahead.
Uttam Kumar
Yes, sir. Very good morning and thanks for the opportunity, sir. Currently now our export order now stands at 1360 crores. So how much education we see in FY26?
Rahul Mithal
Yeah. Morning, Uttam. So the bulk of these two, the two orders which make the bulk of these 1361 is the Mozambique order, as I said, Sometime back about 10 locomotives and 200 coaches from Bangladesh. The locomotives delivery we are aiming to start by, as I said, definitely by end of Q1 or early Q2. The coaches, the designs are getting finalized and prototypes. There are about five types of coaches the prototypes manufacture will start and we are aiming to start delivery by latter part of the year.
So let’s see. I mean we would both our clients, both the Bangladesh coaches and the Mozambique locomotive, both our clients want that irrespective of the contractual large delivery period, they want it as early as possible. We are also keen. So let’s see how it pans out in these coming months. But we would try and maximize the revenue out of these two orders in this fy. So it will be too premature right now to peg a number.
I can only say that out of the 10 locomotives we will try and give maximum number of locomotives, try and achieve the at least about 70 minimum 80% of the order and coaches, as I said, the designs are getting finalized and as the delivery starts by latter part of the fy, we see in the coming months how much we can expedite it.
Uttam Kumar
Okay, thanks a lot. I will come back.
Rahul Mithal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from Shreyanshmeta from Aquira Securities. Please go ahead.
Shreyans Mehta
Yes, sir. So congratulations on the great set of number. So my first question is on margin. So as you said that this quarter we have a noticeably higher margin. So is it sustainable in the long term? Or we can have a. That you guided for the 20% margin.
Rahul Mithal
Yeah. Morning sir. Yes, as I said, the margins viewed in a particular quarter, quarter four may not give a real, you know, overall holistic picture. The margins which we have been preempting in my earlier guidance is also and as we see the order book that we have the mix in the order book, as I said, most of these orders, both the export as well as domestic are on very tough competitive margins.
So we are aiming and we would see that a realistic EBITDA margins on an overall FY basis would be in the range of about 20 odd percent and PAT margins would be about 15 to 16% on a particular quarter due to a certain change in the mix of inflow. You would see some ups and downs in the margin. But on an overall FY in the coming FY, 25, 26 we would see, as I said, 20% and 15% to 16%. 16%.
Shreyans Mehta
Okay, sir, got it. I will get back in the queue.
Rahul Mithal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next Question comes from Viraj Mitani from Jupiter Financial. Please go ahead.
Viraj Mithani
Yeah, good morning sir, and congratulations and outstanding numbers.
Rahul Mithal
Thank you. Thank you. Good morning.
Viraj Mithani
I just want to reconfirm you are saying that will grow at 20% from this year and the EBITDA margins would be in the range of 18% and right in the 15%, is that correct?
Rahul Mithal
Yeah. So just a correction. I said that we are aiming to grow in the top line of about 20%. The EBITDA margins would we foresee will settle down somewhere on about 20 odd percent and pat margins about 5015 to 16% in the coming FY.
Viraj Mithani
Is it because of the more more of the turnkey projects you’ve taken? The composition of the order book, the chunky is higher than any other segment of.
Rahul Mithal
So it’s not really because of. First of all let me clarify. As I have said in repeated times earlier also we are a pure consultancy company. We are not a construction company. What you see as 4200 crores in the as a turnkey in the order book, that’s not really a construction, I mean not like a EPC construction company.
These are primarily our role is still as a consultant only thing the revenue passes through us. So instead of let’s say a consultation consultancy fee of 4 rupees instead of the order value being 4 rupees the order value is 104 rupees or 100 plus 4. So that’s the only difference. Our work, our content, our scope of work is exactly the same.
So we are not deviating from our core strength of being a consultancy company. Having said that, the impact in margins is primarily due to a mix of factors. And one of the key key factors is the changing if you see compare our mix of order book every year in the last two to three years especially the shift now is a majority on the competitive basis and on the nomination vis a vis the nomination basis and even the order which are on nomination basis, I wouldn’t really call them nomination.
They are primarily kind of more or less single tender kind of orders given to us more because of our capability and experience where it is based on a very tough negotiation on deciding the rates etc. So with all those factors and the competition around that’s contributing by and large to the margin. So the erstwhile margins which have been there three to four years back are are not possible to be achieved.
And that was what makes us feel that we will be in the range of about 20% in EBITDA and about 15 to 16% impact margins.
Viraj Mithani
It’s in connection with the same question that we maintain the same dividend policy. Connection to the same question will maintain the same dividend policy. Correct.
Rahul Mithal
During polka. Dividend. Yes, dividend. As you have been saying, as you’ve been seeing our dividend payout ratio in 23:24 overall was 95.2%. In 24:25 we maintained that level, we are about 95.4%.
So with that we are assuring that since because our business model as we have been very firmly unequivocally saying in the last last few one or two years, we are a low capex company, we are not going to give you any surprises. Our business model remains. We are a consultancy company. So the dividend payout ratios will be appreciably in the same trend.
Viraj Mithani
Thank you sir, I’ll join my question.
Rahul Mithal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Dear participants, you are requested to restrict yourself to one question per participant. Next question comes from Parimal Mitani from Credential Investments. Please go ahead.
Parimal Mithani
Good morning sir and congratulations. A good set of numbers.
Rahul Mithal
Morning. Thank you.
Parimal Mithani
Second, the question relates to consultancy business. So if you see over a period of time you highlighted earlier also we are shifting more towards the competitive bidding landscape. Is this fair to assume that sir and will be able to achieve consultancy revenues of 1,200 odd crore which we had a couple of years back in this landscape. So if you can highlight that.
Rahul Mithal
Yes. So as you correctly said pointed out the overall trend in all consultancy across all areas of infrastructure 30 nod verticals are shifting and both domestic and international are shifting to competitive mode. And that’s why however if you see the growth in actual consultancy revenue even if you see sequentially there has been a substantial growth Y o Y if you see in quarter four there has been a growth of 11% and as these recent orders in the last 2/3 3/4 which we have received as they start generating revenue in the coming quarters both in terms of fresh inflow of consultancy orders as well as revenue coming from execution of these orders received in the last FY you will continue to see a growth in consultancy.
So consultancy being our core bread and butter strength we will continue to grow both in terms of order inflow domestic and international as well as revenue realization from the order book.
Parimal Mithani
And so follow up to that question, can you highlight your the update on the rights and DMV JV in terms of assurance business if you can provide how it is going through which we had
Rahul Mithal
Rights and who’s jv? I didn’t get
Parimal Mithani
DNB consultancy sir. Which you were with a Norway based company for.
Rahul Mithal
Yes, so we are, we have, you see as we have diversified in our QA business In the last one, 1.5 years, we are partnering with a number of QA entities both domestic and international. And that is why if you see the QA business in front of a huge hit this year, the hit of QA business to our revenue and profit both combined have been the range of about 40 to 50 crores which is a huge hit.
And so the ratio in this fy, this was the first FY where this diversification of taking on fresh clients has really borne fruit. Due to these various partnerships, both in the competitive mode, we started getting our first international consultancy order in Sri Lanka Railway. And today our diversified QA inspection vertical is taking on orders has got a majority now of about 55 to 60% of non railway QA business also.
So as the pie expands, the ratio also in diversification is expanding. And these partnerships are not only this but other partnerships also that we’ve done in QA has helped us in this diversification.
Parimal Mithani
So it’s safe to assume the qa.
Rahul Mithal
I think you can come back in the queue for.
Operator
Can you join that?
Rahul Mithal
No, please. I think it’s better that you come back. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from Abhishek Daparia from MK Global Financial Services Limited. Please go ahead. I repeat, next question comes from Abhishek Taparia from MK Global. Please go ahead. There is no response. We have a follow up question from Anand Bhaskaran from Kazima Wealth Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Anand Bhaskaran
Yes sir. Good morning again. So I just want to ask about the. What will be the revenue mix for the upcoming financial year?
Rahul Mithal
So Anand, it would be safe to say if you see the order book mix. So if you see the, as I mentioned the export orders, we are definitely aiming to maximize the 1350 out of that the maximum we can get. The consultancy which is a healthy 3000 crore and even the turnkey which is 4200.
As I explained, these are primarily consultancy itself except the method of accounting. So primarily the export will bounce back after a gap of nearly two years. This year the export revenue was nil. Last year is about 100 crores. So these two years which you have taken a hit export you will see a bigger contribution in both in top line and bottom line and consultancy and turnkey will continue to see a growth that has already seen a sequential growth, a healthy growth. Q3 to Q4. Y o y Q4 has shown about 11% growth in consultancy revenue.
Anand Bhaskaran
So you mentioned that. Okay. Consultancy turnkey will maintain relatively maintain the same amount of order book growth.
Rahul Mithal
Yes, yes.
Operator
Okay. And can you join back with you?
Anand Bhaskaran
Yeah, sure. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have a follow up question from Shayan Smitha from Equal Securities. Please go ahead.
Shreyans Mehta
Yes, sir. So my next question is on the export orders. So can you share the value of the export orders where we are currently L1 but yet to be converted into the company’s book. And also any guidance on the new export orders inflow expected in the FY26 and what revenue we are targeting from the export orders as we have nearly 1300 crores as on date.
Rahul Mithal
So as far as L1 is concerned, we will declare it at the minute. We are L1. We, we don’t like to speculate for works in progress. We are engaging in a number of bids for export. One only one old agreement which is not included in our order book which we signed about two years back with the National Railway of Zimbabwe for wagons and locomotives that is yet to be converted into an order because they are still waiting for a funding confirmation which they are trying.
So that is as far as the order book of export is concerned in terms of realization. As I explained the locomotives order of 10 locomotives to Mozambique which is totaling to about 300 crores. The deliveries will start in the next few months. Months as I said, maybe end of quarter one or beginning quarter two.
And we aim to see as I said, maximize out of these in this coming fy. It’s too early right now to predict an exact number. I can only say that we are trying to maximize the out of all of these, the entire order, the coaches 200, which is again a huge order of about 900 crores. The DIS designs are under final approval.
There are five types of design with Bangladesh Railway and we will aim to get the prototype manufacture and get it approved and start deliveries by latter part of the fy. So in the coming few months in terms of exact numbers, more clarity will emerge. But safe to say that this is the first year after a gap of nearly two years that you see a substantial contribution of export revenue in both top and bottom line.
Shreyans Mehta
Yes sir. Thank you. So just you,
Operator
Can you join back? Thank you.
Shreyans Mehta
Please just follow up question.
Rahul Mithal
Okay, go ahead.
Shreyans Mehta
Yeah, yeah. Just you can quantify the export or new. New export orders what we can expect in this financial year.
Rahul Mithal
So again that is speculative, right? As I said, we have maintained in the last five quarters successively the aspirational target that we had said for one Export order a quarter. We will try and continue to maintain that the exact details will be speculative at this stage.
Shreyans Mehta
Sure. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen. If you have any question please press star and one on your telephone keypad. You are requested to restrict yourself to one question per participant. Next question comes from Gaurav Jagirdar and individual investors. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Good morning sir. I have one question. Can you shed some light in a consultancy scenario the present orders, what is the quantum and how does the future looks like? Thank you.
Rahul Mithal
Yes. So you see our biggest strength in consultancy is that both domestic and international we are tackling all areas of infrastructure except oil and natural gas. So if you see give you a flavor of the type of order which we got in the last few months in quarter four.
So whether it’s is real infra orders, whether it is study of new high speed corridors, the feasibility studies, the DPRs. Whether it is study for sidings by various. You know whether it’s an oil company or whether it is a mineral company. Whether it is DPRs for Jaipur Metro. Whether it is orders for leasing of locomotives. Whether it is the orders for operation and maintenance of the mini rail systems that we run for the various PSUs.
So you see a mix of all these orders across. Whether it is building consultancy orders, third party highway, large number of highway, third party and safety and quality inspections. We have got orders across states including Northeast. So whether it is bridges, tunnels, highways or all areas of infrastructure we continue to get orders.
And maintaining this strike rate of more than one or literally more than one order a day. As I said quarter four we got 150 plus orders. We will continue to get orders in consultancy in the coming.
Unidentified Participant
That’s really great. And what is this quantum? Quantum of international order, absolute number. And any specific countries we are targeting we have in mind.
Rahul Mithal
So in consultancy we have today an export order book of about 1350 crores and a consultancy order book of about 400 crores. International consultancy you will see in this FY. And that’s our focus, that’s the next milestone which we are trying to achieve. Besides growth in export order book. Definitely growth in the international consultancy order book.
And whether it is the African continent, whether it is the Southeast Asian countries, whether it is Latin America, we are doing got a recent order of high highway in Guana. Whether it is the Middle east countries, we’ve got an order in Jordan. So we are targeting these geographies and obviously aspiring to even go to some of the G7 countries to try and get international consultancy order building up on our strength.
Unidentified Participant
That’s really great to hear, sir. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from Viraj Matani from Jupiter Financial. Please go ahead.
Viraj Mithani
My question is since you have so many JVs with so many renowned companies in the world, can you give some color on that? What kind of orders or what kind of business we’re getting from them?
Rahul Mithal
So you see Viraj, our basic strategy whether for domestic or international customer consultancy is depending on the kind of sector you cannot have all possible resources within. Under the one under one roof that is not cost viable. And the complexities of the consultancy in various sectors require some skills to be complemented.
So all of these, number one, none of these are JVs. These are all MOUs. Memorandums of Understanding for partnership and collaboration of supplementing each other’s skills to take on opportunities. So for example we signed an MOU with Etihad Rail a few months back in UAE and now we are paneled with them and we are getting some work. We started getting some work in Jordan. So this collaboration and partnership in supplementing, either working for them or joining them and working together with them for a third party opportunity, both kinds of MOUs exist.
Viraj Mithani
Okay. And so you said about a quality. It’s a follow up question, ma’ am. It’s related to the same thing only. May I?
Rahul Mithal
Okay, go ahead. Viraj,
Viraj Mithani
You talked about JV regarding. Sorry, MOU is regarding quality assurance business. Any color on that in terms of growth this year or number which wouldn’t be back. Because that’s one of the very big good business for us.
Rahul Mithal
Yes, we have grown and this sustained effort in this FY and this partnership has got us orders for ISA of Vande Bharat which was in partnership with another company. We got an order. We are now as I said diversified in so many areas of quality assurance inspection. Whether it is the solar area, whether it is other infrastructure, whether it is the state government, whether it is vendor assessment for the GEM portal, whether it is for the national Solar Energy Initiative.
So all these are initiatives which is helping us. These partnerships, these MOUs and supplementing our skills with the skills of these partners has helped us grow and. And we are confident that the way we have grown in this fy, we have feathered the hit by the QA business changed in dynamics and by end of the coming fy, at least in terms of.
We are aiming to reach back the same levels of business in terms of qa.
Viraj Mithani
Thanks. Thank you. And all the best.
Operator
Thank you ladies and gentlemen. If you have any question please press star and one on your telephone keypad. Next question comes from Parimal Mitani and Prudential Investment. Please go ahead.
Parimal Mithani
Hello. Yeah, go ahead sir. So I just wanted to know in terms of the REMC business. So what is the way if you can tell us.
Rahul Mithal
Yes. So RMC has been as you’re aware doing two things. One is traction procurement which has been growing in terms of because nearly 100% electrification and the growth in traffic. The second is the net zero initiative which it is doing consultancy for Indian Railways which also it is playing a huge, huge role.
So the growth in RMCL has been. Has been steady. There has been. It has been paying us a huge amount of dividend to both Indian Railways and us. It’s a subsidiary for us. So we got a good dividend for about 40 crores in this year. So I see the growth continuing and what we are now doing in the last few quarters and definitely you will see that coming forward in the coming FY. It’s RMCL’s skill in renewables which has collected and accumulated in the last 10 to 11 years to be able. It’s already started doing consultancy work in the renewable sector and started getting orders.
And those I see growing substantially in the coming fy.
Parimal Mithani
Okay sir. Thank you. And all the best sir.
Rahul Mithal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question comes from Abhishek Taparia from MK Global Financial Services limited Please go ahead. A repeat question comes from Abhishek Taparia. Please go ahead. Sir, there is no response.
Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question please press star and one on your telephone keypad. Next question comes from Uttam Kumar Srimal from Access Securities Ltd. Please go ahead.
Uttam Kumar
Yes sir. Thanks for the opportunity again. Sir. What would be our capex guidance for FY26 and 27?
Rahul Mithal
See we are Uttam. We are a very low capex company by our business model. And the CAPEX would be very minimal. It would be definitely not exceeding about 50 to 75 or crore. So definitely well below 100. I can say we our resources are manpower, skilled manpower. So we don’t really see changing. As I’ve been reiterating, our business model is very clear. We won’t come up with any surprises.
We continue to grow in our consultancy field both domestic and international. So with that I don’t see any major shift in the trend trend of capex. In fact it remained in the range of about 50 odd crores.
Uttam Kumar
Okay, thanks a lot.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from Viraj Mitani from Jupiter Financial. Please go Ahead.
Viraj Mithani
Yes, sorry. Can you quantify the this quality assurance business? Like what kind of contribution would be there in this coming year?
Rahul Mithal
In terms of contribution I would. In terms of the on term it has which it has come up in terms of our consultancy business I can only say that it is part of the total consultancy revenue and we were down in 2223. We took a hit of about 50% reduction. We have now come back to about 70, 80% of the levels of quality assurance revenue which we had. Margins and contribution in terms of bottom line are definitely much lesser.
We have taken a hit of about 40 to 50 crores in both the top and bottom line in this FY which by the coming FY as I mentioned we will try and reach back the same levels of top line of in the QA business. Yes, Margins being much lesser, the contributions from the bottom line in the quality assurance business will definitely take much more time to come back to those levels.
And that can only be achieved as we go beyond the levels of top line on the erstwhile levels that we had in quality assurance.
Viraj Mithani
Okay, thank you and all the best.
Rahul Mithal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question please press star and one on your telephone keypad. I repeat ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question please press star n1 on your telephone keypad. We have a follow up question from Parimal Muthani from Credential Investments. Please go ahead sir.
Parimal Mithani
Regarding quality of. Sorry once again sir. I just wanted to know is the worth over in terms of the consultancy business and from here on we should see margins being stable there sir?
Rahul Mithal
Yes. Not only in the quality assurance business which is a part of my consultancy revenue and the bottom line As I said 24, 25 was a good year of settling down at the levels of margin because this was the year where the huge shift took place in terms of the shift to a majority of the competitive orders whether it is in quality assurance or all areas of consultancy.
So what we see that moving forward we will settle again as I repeat on overall margins of about 20 odd percent EBITDA and 15 to 16 PAT margin and the consultancy margin which contribute in this overall EBITDA and pat margin would also settle in the same range which we are seeing primarily. If you analyze the 3 4/4 of this FY to be able to settle overall on 20 and and 15.
Parimal Mithani
Okay, thank you. Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question please press star and one on your telephone keypad. We have a follow up question from Anil Basaran from Customer Wealth Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Anand Bhaskaran
Yeah, I just want to know about the leasing side of the business. How is that going about and expectations for the future.
Rahul Mithal
Yes. So the good thing in leasing is that we are continuing to, you see, target new clients, new areas. It has seen and in spite of this sector, again this is an area which is also now opening up to competition. Erstwhile used to be the only player. Now we are still the dominant player. But it has now opened up a large number of smaller players coming in. So you see a growth if you compare YoY, FY, FY, F2FY, a growth in the leasing revenue.
However, the competition being more, the margins and profits are more or less flat. So what we are definitely targeting is we have now reached a growth of about more than 20% in the number of locomotives that we have leased which are owned by us and leased. We are also got huge number of orders from clients who are owning their locomotives but given giving us the wet lease to operate and maintain them.
So moving forward we will while as I said, this is one of the recent sectors which is opening up to competition. But the expertise and the experience which we have in that I see a sustained growth. We being able to see a growth in that at least in the top line and not allowing the bottom line to, to go beyond the current levels.
Anand Bhaskaran
Okay. Okay, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. We have a question from Deepak from right. Please go ahead. He withdrawn his question. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any question please press star and one on your telephone keypad. As there are no further questions, I would like to hand over the call to the management for their closing comments.
Rahul Mithal
Thank you. So at the end I would like to just pinpoint you see some time back we put some milestones. For us the first milestone was trying to become a one order a day company. We maintained that. We have maintained that in the last four quarters and we will try and maintain that.
The second milestone we put for ourselves was try to get one export order a quarter. We have maintained that in the last five quarters and we aspire achieve to maintain that. We these two we set ourselves a milestone to grow aggressively in our order book and we have ended the FY with the highest ever order book and at 8,900 crores.
In fact the last entire FY we got more than 500 orders totaling to 5,500 crores which is nearly equivalent to the closing order book of 31 March 24, which was 5,700 crores. So the third milestone of being of, you know, breaking a record of the highest ever order book we have achieved as we move forward, we have set ourselves to aspirational milestones of this FY trying to reach and break the record of highest ever revenue. We will see how it pans out. But definitely this is some milestone which we are aspiring for and moving forward in the coming FY’s also trying to break the record of being the highest ever profit.
So we will not only maintain the three milestones that we have achieved, we’ll try and maintain them in the coming quarters, but also aspire to achieve these two targets and milestones that we have set ourselves in the coming FYs. So thank you very much and we and our entire team is committed, as I said, to maintain these milestones achieved and aspire to achieve achieve these milestones which we have set for ourselves in the coming years, in the coming financial years, next year and the subsequent years. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you all for being a part of conference call. If you need any further information or clarification, please mail@investorsights.com Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference for today. You may disconnect your lines now. Thank you and have a pleasant day.
Rahul Mithal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you sir.