Rhi Magnesita India Ltd (NSE: RHIM) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 28, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Parmod Sagar — Chief Executive Officer
Azim Syed — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Mayank Bhandari — Analyst
Chetan Doshi — Individual Investor
Suraj Sonulkar — Analyst
Gopal Agarwal — Analyst
Pratim Roy — Analyst
Ashish Kejriwal — Analyst
Sahil Sanghvi — Analyst
Chintan Shah — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to RHI India Limited Q4 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by Asian Market Securities. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr Mayang from Asian Market Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Mayank Bhandari — Analyst
Thank you. Thank you, Manu. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Asian Market Securities, we welcome you all to Q4 FY ’25 earnings conference call of RHI India Limited. We have with us today Mr Pramod Shagar, Chairman, MD and CEO; Mr Rajeem, CFO and Chief Investor Relations Officer. Now I request Mr Pramod Sar to take us through the overview of the quarterly result and then maybe we can begin the Q&A session. Over to you, sir. Thank you very much, Max.
Parmod Sagar — Chief Executive Officer
Good evening, everyone. Welcome to RHMICT India’s earnings call. As we draw the curtain on yet another dynamic financial year, we do so with a sense of accomplishment. FY ’25 has been a period of challenges, transformation and forward momentum, not just for our organization, but for our industry and our customers. Today, I’m pleased to share with you an overview of our performance along with a broader outlook on the macroeconomic and industrial forces shaping up our future. At RSM India, we have demonstrated operational resilience amidst shifting market dynamics and geopolitical uncertainties. In Q4 financial Year ’25, we continue our strategic focus on innovation, customer engagement and agile execution, delivering consistent value-creation for our stakeholders. Financially, we recorded a total revenue of INR3,675 crores. Our efforts in strategic initiatives like iron-making and flow control are delivering growth. However, we see a commoditization in retractive market. Let me briefly reflect on the evolving landscape of the core industries that shape our business. India’s steel sector remains a cornerstone of economic growth with domestic demand expected to rise in FY ’26 fueled by infrastructure investments, the national logistic policy and Make in India initiative with a spot of 12% import-duty restrictions. Globally, how about the market shows divergence. Chinese exports have pressured prices while policy changes in the US, European Union and United Kingdom have created trade uncertainties. Domestically, India is pushed to expand steel capacity to 300 million ton by 2030, aligned with our mission to support the industry with efficient refractive solutions. All the planned capacity additions in our steel customers aligned with diverse product offerings. The Indian cement industry is also on a strong footing with demand projected to grow 6% to 8% in FY ’26, led by an increase in government capex of about 10%, driven by affordable housing, urban development and highway projects. Cement prices also saw a lift in May ’25 after margin squeeze in that entire year. However, we are optimistic that this will change due to infrastructure-led demand. RHA is the only effective player in India delivering end-to-end solutions for the cement industry. Nevertheless, structural changes like overcapacity and pricing pressure highlight the need for the efficiency in the end-customer markets. As a critical enabler of economic growth, refractory will continue to benefit from robust demand. India’s refractory market is projected to reach $4.5 billion US dollar by 2030, faster than earlier estimates, driven by material innovations and organic growth. We are proud to support this momentum with increasing traction across high-growth sectors, not only steel and sever, but in industrial applications like glass, ceramics, renewables, reflecting our expanding industrial footprint. However, the announced overcapacity expansion in India, coupled with Chinese import of refractive materials is becoming a systematic issue resulting in price. In light of these industry dynamics, our strategy at RIG India remains anchored in five key pillars. Number-one, strategic initiative. We will continue to invest and grow in iron-making and floor control to gain further market-share. Number two, innovation and technology. We are scaling up our R&D initiatives and abalancing digitalization to develop next-generation refractory solution. This will lead us to be cost-competitive and local fund local production to transfer technologies from group. We will also leverage our digital technologies through our 4Pro offerings to our customers. Number three, sustainability. Our initiatives are economically sustainable aligned with India’s and our global group’s net Europe commitments. We will be investing capex through this effect to maximize our cost competitiveness through our circular economy initiatives. Number four, operational excellence. Our launched Operational excellence system has already delivered results not only in our factories, but also in the acquired entities. We will take it to the next level of maturity to improve productivity in the coming year. Number five, safety initiative. Our target is nothing less than zero accident and we have very strong program to pursue it. In our continuous commitment towards safety, we have launched seven lifesaving rules across all our production facilities and sites, not limited to India, but global level also. Apart from this, we have launched a program to increase our prices to pass-on the input cost. We should see some of the benefits flowing in the future quarters. As we look-ahead, we remain confident in the underlying strength of our business and industries we serve. Our long-term vision is clear to be the most reliable partner for our refractory solution in India’s industrial growth story. In today’s Board meeting, we have done some additions in our Board. I believe the recent addition to our Board will strongly — strong industrial background will be true value generation for our shareholders and our company.We announced to consider the appointment of Mr Panda, Managing Director of TRL Purusaki Refractories Limited as an Independent Director for a period of next five years. We have also appointed Mr Azil Said, our Chief Financial Officer, RH Mangnesita India Limited as a whole-time Director and Chief Financial Officer for a period of next five years. We also did the reappointment of Mr Nazim, former Managing Director, Magnesite and Iron Ore Limited as an Independent Director for his second term of five years. On behalf of the entire leadership team, I thank you for your continued trust and support. Together let us win a stronger, more sustainable future. With that, I will now hand over to our CFO, Ajim Sayer, who will take us through the detailed financial performance of Q4 and financial year ’25.
Azim Syed — Chief Financial Officer
And thanks, Pamoji. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us for RHA India’s earnings call. Let me begin by acknowledging the complex macro-environment that has influenced our performance over the year. FY ’25 was marked by intensified competition in the refractor market and rising input costs, especially in raw materials and our inability to pass-through these costs. These factors alongside continued commoditization in the industry tested the resilience of our business model.
For the full-year FY ’25, we recorded a consolidated revenue from operations of INR3,675 crores, a 2.8% decline year-on-year with flat shipments. EBITDA came in at INR505 crores with margin softening to 13.7 percentage from 14.7 percentage in FY ’24, mainly due to pressures on realization rates, higher raw-material costs and inflation-driven increases in employee benefits. Our profit-after-tax stood at INR203 crores compared to a loss of FY ’24. This turnaround was supported by disciplined execution, tight cost controls and the absence of exceptional items that impacted the previous year.
Q4 performance was seasonally lower with revenue declining 9.7 percentage sequentially to INR919 crores. This was largely expected due to the completion of one-time projects in Q3 and the typical slowdown in the cement demand at the end-of-the season. Our EBITDA was — in Q4 was INR94 crores with margins at 10.2 percentage and the PAT for the quarter was INR36 crores. Despite these challenges, we achieved significant progress in managing our working capital and cash-flow.
Through focused operational discipline, we reduced our net-debt by 53 percentage during the year, bringing the net debt-to-EBITDA ratio down to 0.3 times from 0.6 times. The company also saw an improved debtor turnover ratio through targeted interventions in our trade receivables. As mentioned in detail, our end-markets, particularly steel and cement experienced margin pressures in FY ’25 with EBITDA contraction on our end-customer market by 1% to 2 percentage.
Rising low steel — low-cost steel imports and competitive pricing in refractories impacted the realization rate. However, medium-term demand fundamentals remain intact with domestic steel capacity poised to expand and infrastructure-led cement demand to expect — demand expected to recover in FY ’26. Looking ahead, we are cautiously optimistic we are experiencing an increased growth for FY ’26, coupled with margin improvement. This will be driven by stronger domestic demand from steel And cement sectors, cost optimization through recipe rationalization, recycling, raw-material savings through strategic sourcing initiatives. The third one would be continuous focus on-market share in the public service unit segments. The fourth one being targeted price increases in targeted areas to reflect the cost pass-through. We have also earmarked INR150 crores in capex for the coming year to build and execute our strategic pillars as highlighted by Pramoji. In closing, while FY ’25 was a challenging year, it also underscored the resilience of our business and the effectiveness of our strategic priorities. We remain committed to delivering long-term value to our stakeholders by focusing on cost discipline, innovation and sustainable growth. Thank you again for your continued trust and support. We now open the floor for — to welcome any questions.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their on telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and want to ask a question. If you wish to ask any questions, you may press star and one now. We have a first question from the line of Chetan Doshi, an Individual Investor. Please go-ahead.
Chetan Doshi
Good evening and thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask the question. Now the first question is that we say that we are market leaders in India, but the results for the quarter and for the entire year, it doesn’t reflect the leadership qualities and the product portfolio what we are into? And second question is, in-spite of de-growth, how come there is almost 50% increase in employee benefits means even if people don’t perform in the organization you intend to increase the benefits by almost 50%.
Parmod Sagar
First one I’ll take it., thank you very much for your question. You are going by quarter numbers also. I think we are the undisputed leader. There is no doubt about that. And our fundamentals are very strong. We are working on many areas. You know, we differentiate ourselves from our competition. One of our competition has shown tremendous growth in 1/4 with the serious dip in margins.
So if the competition, as I said, overcapacity going into the market with whatever price they are offering that user is offering and they are accepting the order just to enter the market, should we go into that rat race and road our margin faster further just to grab market-share? I don’t think this is the right decision.
Being a market-leader, it is our responsibility to remain a healthy competitor, guide the industry also to remain healthy. Otherwise, you know this reflecting the civil. So it was a very striking decision. We will not go by this rat race of people who are entry into new markets. We have a very clear thought process. And if you see, we also enter in iron-making area. With the healthy margins, my margins are as good as my other all established products, I have not entered the market with the throway prices to erode the market or just grab the order.
We lost lot of order because I don’t want to get order at 4%, 5% margin with less than 0% EBITDA. So that was decision we took. I think that is the right decision, but you have your own opinion and I respect you.
Azim Syed
Sorry to interrupt, but see, we have much larger portfolio compared to anybody in any competitor, which is there into the Indian market. So what — my question is your marketing team or the people in the organization, they are not able to exploit the market in-full capacity. Otherwise, see, we — that leadership is lacking. Second thing is, for since last couple of quarters, I’m highlighting last two, three days as for it is a compulsion to declare the results.
So we come up with a date and say, okay, these are our results. There is a leadership quality. We are living in digital world and all the records see your parent company, I’m really upset with the way on the approach of RHI India operations wherein your parent company is — if you see their write-up or they are very clear what they want and they are into much larger acquisitions and they operate worldwide. And everything your — Stefan Borgas also is very clear as this month — this year the margins will be so-and-so.
Even the guidance given, it is very near to what you say here we have excuses, this time the raw-material has gone up, this time the employee cost has gone up, this time there was some problem in the dispatches, this was this customer canceled the order. See, these type of excuses are not good for the organization. We have to deliver. And I think after the acquisition, almost more than one year is over. Sorry, it’s a question, but these are the points.
Chetan Doshi
Next quarter, I expect you to come out with the results like other — what other MNCs do.
Parmod Sagar
Again, I emphasize when you are talking about global company or Strafeld workers the statements, we are fully aligned with that and we are driven by the philosophy, the strategy of the global leadership, okay. So they are fully aligned what we are doing in India. And they are fully convinced that this is the way to do. And let’s not drag this as a shareholder, you have all the right to hear your frustration and this is well taken.
Chetan Doshi
It’s not frustration 28th of the month, two days are left for closing the accounts. We are doing it just two days back. Where-is the leadership here? Second thing is that when you have such a big portfolio to operate,, you have — the presentation lacks highlighting the features with these points, we have really gained over competition. Last-time also — and just 15 minutes back, it is uploaded. For the sake of doing it, it is done. So you can keep con-call there for tomorrow also. So you are thinking our competition is gaining our margins. Is it your analysis?
No, no, no, no,. You are telling it wrongly. See, my question is we have such a big portfolio to operate in India we have the backing of our parent company, we have the market —
Parmod Sagar
Have you gone through the presentation, have you gone through the presentation, how many products we are bringing to India with the latest technology innovation? Have you gone through that? I don’t think you have gone through the presentation properly.
Chetan Doshi
And but 10 minutes back, you upload and you expect the entire presentation to be gone through. It is uploaded, you see the time.
Parmod Sagar
That is that is there. We have uploaded it late, but you could have asked the question 15 minutes later and gone through the presentation by you are the first one to ask the question, you should have gone through the presentation while in remote and other people can talk and then you come back and still I’m requesting you please go through the presentation and but I’ll jump to that again. Okay.
Azim Syed
So let me answer the question. So for the full-year, we basically have a 2% increase and for the quarter, we have a 16% increase. There were two major reasons. One basically was the inflation correction that we normally do, along with some of the government-mandated increases that has been sought, for example, in states like Odisha, it was expected to increase more than inflation, yes, this thing.
And the second thing, yeah. The second thing basically was that we have harmonized our HR policies across all the three legal entities now. So for example, the leaves and gratuities arrangement, we had different policies of the acquired entities. So this is basically completed.
Chetan Doshi
Okay. I will again come in the queue. Thanks.
Azim Syed
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask any questions, you may press star and 1. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, you may press star and one now. We have our next question from the line of Suraj from Asian Market Securities. Please go-ahead.
Suraj Sonulkar
Hello. Can you hear. We can hear you. Sir, thank you for the opportunity. Revenue declined by 9% Q-o-Q and 2% Y-o-Y in Q2 FY ’25, while our EBITDA margin fell sharply to 10%, how much this decline is attributed to seasonable cement demand versus pricing pressure or project timing
Parmod Sagar
Mostly it is driven by higher MENA cost. You know, about six months back, we were buying tabular MENA wide fuel MENA in the range of INR60,000 to INR65,000 rupees a ton and it went to INR90,000 — INR95,000 a ton. So this has a huge impact on our commodity business when it comes to cement or or glass or even our flow control products.
So it is the main driver for this erosion of EBITDA. Apart from this, yes, there is some levers also. As I said, the competition, I don’t want to take any name, but they enter the market with very, very, very, very attractive pricing. And nowadays, if it’s End-User, whether it’s a cement industry or all small players, they are looking for the price. They said, okay, we are not bothered about RH at all. That’s why that we and that’s why that is giving us more than the discount on that price also.
So why should we not give them the order? So should I also follow that? I thought I did not follow that. So there two levers were having impact on this EBITDA erosion, but fortunately now abilla prices are going down. From 95,000, it has reached to INR77,000 it will go down further. It has not reached to the level from where it started, but at least it is halfway backwards.
So this will help us to increase our margin also in coming quarters. And also at the same time, we are doing some product optimization also. I would say as a leading company, as a multinational company, as a listed company in India under London Stock Exchange, we have a very clear transparent quality assurance system. So our recipes maybe over a, maybe we are offering better product than the small players who are entering with you know some compromise on a quality standard and all those things.
So we don’t want to do that, so that we are looking at how we can offer best quality, quality product, better-quality products where the performance speak for itself and the life of the is cement all the other lines improve. So that is our way of entering into the market. Maybe we are a bit slow. Maybe we are working — or whatever innovation and R&D people are working on it, maybe a little bit slow, I can accept that. But our VA is right and our is very clear.
Suraj Sonulkar
Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask any questions, you may press star and one. We have our next question from the line of Gopal Agarwal from HDFC Mutual Fund. Please go-ahead.
Gopal Agarwal
Yeah, good evening, sir. So I have some clarity observation and clarification to Sikh. So in this quarter as compared to last quarter, we have seen other expenses have increased significantly despite our top-line has come down. That is one. And second, like employee expense is also high even Q-on-Q and Y-o-Y, despite our top-line is less. So are there some one-off or can you clarify? Second point — the third question is that as we are seeing alumina prices be shot up very-high now coming back. So how — how much old inventory do we have and when we can see the benefit into P&L of this? Yeah, at least. Thank you.
Parmod Sagar
Thank you. So I will answer the other expenses part. So basically, we had this true-up of our statutory CSR expenses that has basically seen as a higher number in the other expenses. So that has contributed to that. The second question is. So how much can you — even our pricing, it will come after three months. You know we have — we always carry an inventory of about two months’ time.
So I believe July onwards, we should be having this reduced price inventory in our system and next quarter should see improvement in margin.
Gopal Agarwal
For sure. Yes. Okay. And sir, could you would you like to quantify the CSR expense for the quarter and last year?
Parmod Sagar
Yeah. Last year it was about INR7 crores, INR6.83 crores to be very precise, yes. It will be almost same. It is combination of last three years total profitability, INR6.84 crores 6.8 crores this year also. So as you see, our revenue and profitability in absolute value is same. So if you don’t look at 10.2 or so, so our profitability in absolute value is it remains same. It has not eroded and sir, anything on the employee expense side? So as I mentioned earlier, again, three courses.
Number-one is the inflation adjustment, which we normally do it in the first-quarter effective January. So this was one of the reason. But on-top of that, as you know that in Odisha and some other player states, there was a mandated increase in any minimum wage requirements. The second — the second one basically was that we also had to harmonize as planned, we had basically to harmonize our leads and graduity policies for the acquired entities. So these are the two things that impacted our employee costs.
Gopal Agarwal
Okay. So can we assume this as a recurring now or means it has come into base? How do you look at?
Parmod Sagar
Absolutely. Having said that, we will also balance this with our operational excellence program to improve productivity. But yes, this is a good base for you to assume for the future. Apart from this quarter of OES or operational excellency, we are also looking at how we can increase our productivity and reduce our manpower to some extent to mitigate this increase?
Gopal Agarwal
Sure. Thank you, sir. Wish you all the best. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Roy from B&K Securities. Please go-ahead.
Pratim Roy
Yeah, hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is that as I attend that RHIM a global conference call where the team has guided that the overcapacity is in the Indian domestic market is a big problem for the industry in Hawhile and it can drag the growth and something like that sounds slightly negative. So as a leader in the refractory market, in the domestic side, how we can overcome this current situation to a strategically growth part in the next couple of years? That is my first question.
And the second question is that you always mentioned that our EBITDA margin guidance will be around 15%. So how we can achieve that and what are the drivers that help us to achieve that? So if you can give a broad idea on these two particular things, how top-line growth will be maintained in the situation of overall supply and the margin side, both if you can give some idea sir. That will be an example.
Parmod Sagar
I will try to give you some idea. So one is the commodity market where our competition is entry into with very aggressive pricing, we cannot stop them, okay, system will prevail sooner or later when they will also have a margin pressure and they will come back with reasonable pricing. So this is one part. Second is how we can differentiate from our competition.
So what we are doing is we are bringing a lot of new products into India, local for local, like thin, SEL, SA stopper rod with different holes, cold setting mass development, random forest plug from Europe to India, chrome castable type of forest plug from Europe to India, blast furnace, truck from 7 refractory to India, anchor from to India and many more products we are bringing to India, which we were not able to sell from Europe or from Americas because of price competitiveness. But when we will produce this in India, this new market will open up for us, okay. So we are developing new products. We are doing optimization of many products where we think there is an opportunity we can really reduce our cost By different type of innovation and R&D activities. So this I think will give us an edge over our competition, conventional competition and we will have a niche market type of product where we will have a margin advantage also. At the same time, we are trying to dwelve many products per commodity market, but probably it will take another six months or so by the time we reach-out to-market. So with these initiatives, I think we can turn-around this. And as you said, last two, three years, I was very consistent and you remind me also, and I’m still having a belief that 14% 15% margins are really sustainable, achievable margin and we aspire to reach to that level. That is our internal discussion all-the-time how we can reach to that level and we will reach?
Pratim Roy
So we can expect that by the end of — by the beginning of second-half of this financial year, I’m talking about FY ’26. So we can expect this kind of margin can be achieved. Is it a fair assumption to take? I would say you will see from July quarter, which is a 3rd-quarter — 3rd-quarter and the 3rd-quarter, you will see an upside from July onwards and by 3rd-quarter, you will see the results are coming to our expectation.
Parmod Sagar
Yes, maybe one more point. We — in Pramodi’s opening remarks, we also spoke about price increases as well because we believe that these input costs must be passed out. There is a very targeted in program we are also delivering, which will also support with us. So one, again, self-help measure, as explained in terms of targeted commodity market recipe optimization.
Second, the market-share development with the introduction of transfer of technology, but we are also having very intense discussion with our customers on these — how to pass-on these input costs. I hope that gives a 360 degree perspective for you.
Pratim Roy
Okay, sir. Okay, sir. Thank you for the clarification. And just I just want to have another few questions. You just mentioned that the capex side, you’re going to invest INR150 crore, right? So if you can give a broad idea of where we are going to expand and where — how much we can expect margin improvement from that and by when we can expect that would come into the book?
Parmod Sagar
You know whatever capex we are talking about, it will actually be commissioned by end of this year or beginning of next year because all these big equipments like presses, lies press are totally, this the delivery time is 10 months-to 14 months. So this will come probably in next financial year, the actual tangible benefits, not this year. This year, we have been spending this money, ordering and we are doing lot of engineering discussion and all those things.
And when this will be operational commissioned, probably our productivity will go up, our manpower cost will come down because they are modern prices, not like a 40 year-old Dalmia prices which are in-place now. So that is the idea. So this investment will be in this DOCL plant, right? Mostly it will be DOCL plant. I would say, 65%, 70% and the rest is RHI, MI and plant. Yes, we also want to talk about probably the iron-making export center which you are excited about.
Yeah, that we last-time also told you guys, we are creating this iron-making excellence center in. And again, it is a time-consuming process. We have done the trials in Europe with our raw-material, with the technology transfer here. Again, we sent some material, we did the trial, trials are successful and now we are ordering those machines on Europe, which will come by the end of this year or beginning of next year and then this excellence center for making will also start flying.
Pratim Roy
Okay, sir. And export side, how much is currently the export contribution of the total sales for FY ’25 and for this quarter.
Parmod Sagar
It is about 10% there. This quarter may be 11% at sometime it is 9.8% or so. So you can take average 10%, 10%. Is there any opportunity it can go up further in the next couple of years or something like that. That is also a very important for us to grow and it is at global level also. We are discussing with the global team, our 5G team how we can increase our export also.
But again, same thing, Mr Joshi will say a few people are giving only excuses, but the thing is this, okay. If I need to do a trial, it will take six months minimum. And then they will give you a commercial order, small quantity order and then you are approved supplier. So it will all take time, right? Okay. So I take is for all the investors, analysts, you are supported us throughout so many years must take it with the pinch of salt that with 3%, 4% EBITDA, Dalmia plants, we have taken it to double-digit without doing much expansion or much, you know, capex. So you should have a faith and support us. So what is the current EBITDA margin for also?
Pratim Roy
Yeah so what is the current EBITDA margin for Dalmi also? It is around 10%, 12%?
Parmod Sagar
Yeah. We are maintaining double-digit from last 3/4 or so while we sir.
Pratim Roy
Okay. Thank you for your time too. I’ll come back into the queue. Thank you for the detailed answer, sir.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Ashish Khejriwal from Nuvama Institutional Equities. Please go-ahead.
Ashish Kejriwal
Yeah, hi. Good evening, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, couple of questions on that market. As you rightly pointed out that we are seeing intense competition and I think the management is very right not to, you know, disturb the market in such a way to flood it. But in this intense competition, which is maybe prevailing even in FY ’26, is it possible to share what’s your expectation of volume growth
Parmod Sagar
Yes, I — Good evening and thank you for your support as per our philosophy. Yes, sir, I can give you in our business itself, we have a tremendous growth. We were kicking the block, just entered one year back. We were trial stage, but the initial result was so fantastic and satisfied to the steel industry, the blast furnace and the salad plants and DRI, now we are getting repeat order even at a higher price than our last year price.
So this will be a big lever to increase our market-share. And at the same time the product which I just mentioned, we are bringing the technology to India that will also be an upside. Secondly, commoditization, we are not leaving this alone for the competition. We will also be working on it. We are already working on it, product optimization, recipe optimization and it will definitely also add.
And I believe we should be able to deliver 8% to 10% volume growth in coming days. So sir, when we are talking about 8% to 10% volume growth, we are taking into consideration that we are also going to dent some hiccups in the commodity market also because if competition is already there — because sir, one thing is steel margins definitely has improved after the safeguard duty.
Ashish Kejriwal
So are you seeing in your interaction with the — with your customer that they are somewhat easing off and giving you higher prices for the work which we are doing or still they are negotiating on a lower prices.
Parmod Sagar
So they are better placed and they are positive now, I would say, I will not take the name of the customer, but I can tell you in last one month, I got a price increase of almost INR11, INR12 crores, right? So but the effecting date is 1st of July, 1st of August because the long-term contract is in-place. So that’s why I’m saying July onwards, you will see upside in margins, in volumes.
Ashish Kejriwal
Understood. Secondly, sir, is it possible to break-down broadly our total volume into commodity versus premium projects.
Parmod Sagar
So as of now, I don’t have numbers with me, but yes, we can talk offline sometime after a week or so that we can have a number with us? Sure, sir. No exercise. And thirdly, sir, as you mentioned in your opening remarks that raw-material benefits, you will start hitting it from second-quarter. So is it safe to assume that from second-quarter, we can see volume growth as well as raw-material cost-benefit and benefit of price increase also
Ashish Kejriwal
From the customer?
Parmod Sagar
Yeah, you are right. Especially for integrate new customers, this is absolutely good assumption. Yes. Understood. And lastly, in the export market where we are having around 10%, are we seeing any green shoots available over there where we can somewhat increase our exposure or this 8%, 10% Y-o-Y volume growth is entirely on basis of domestic market.
You know historically before we acquired, etc., our revenue — export revenue was about, 22% 23% is still at that level I keep on saying our ambition is to take it to 30% in that India Limited because from Dalmia plant we are not doing any export at all. So that is still there, but you must realize that geopolitical situation outside India is so bad, so China is dumping refractory hair there everywhere. And now with the Trump’s tariff policy, they will still be having overcapacity and our Indian competition is also increasing capacity.
So it is double value for us.
Ashish Kejriwal
Yeah, how do you, but still we have our own plan and we are working on that. Understood. And sir, lastly, obviously, we have external market where we have little control, but internally, are we doing something which can optimize cost further? And if yes, how much one can expect that to lead to increasing margins on what we?
Parmod Sagar
Yeah. Yes, it is really, really a very focused area for management, our R&D people, technical marketing people, they are just working only on this, optimization of recipes, reducing the cost of our products, etc. So this is a very serious issue for us to remain relevant in the market in commodity market. I understand. So because you were planning yeah, please sir, go-ahead. Just basically that even to have the sustainability of these cost competitiveness, some of the capex you are appropriation at for some of the recycling or secondary raw-material operations as well, so that it’s — it’s continuous for us.
Yeah. Because in last two years, we have pruned down the capacity also by maybe closing down one of the plant and you know, making other plant more efficient. So that also could have helped us in lowering cost or still that’s in the making because our capacity we have obviously prune down from 525 to 80 to 512. So was the road line add? You know, it is market-driven.
If the market is biased, if the demand is really good and as I said, 8% to 10% growth, we don’t see in short-term, we do some product optimization or plant optimization or protection optimization. But if you know the market is a bit slow, then we will definitely look into it whether we can further consolidate our operations pressure or not. So this is also one of our strategic discussion within data.
Ashish Kejriwal
Sure, sir, sure. Thank you and all the best, sir.
Thank you. Thanks a lot thank you.
Operator
We have our next question from the line of Sahil Sanghy from Monarch Network Capital. Please go-ahead.
Sahil Sanghvi
Yeah. Good evening, sir and Sir. Thank you for the opportunity and a good performance in such a competitive market. My question was onefold on the export, which you have largely answered. But on second, just wanted to understand the seasonality in the cement side of the business. Now is it fair to say that couple of these quarters are the ones which have very large volumes and some of them don’t have volumes or is that correct? And how do you aim to ramp-up the revenue contribution from Dalmia going ahead. Any plans on that, please?
Parmod Sagar
Sahul jee, thank you very much. I was waiting for you actually. I was missing you. So first-quarter is historically very lean quarter when it comes to steel. And with second-quarter starting until September, you know, it is a monsoon season. So during monsoon season, normally as the cement people do the maintenance of their, et-cetera, because construction is slow, the output is, you know, as they are not able to sell at that pace because of monsoon and construction of roads, bridging, housing, everything will come down to 50% level or so.
Sahil Sanghvi
So this is the time when they do the maintenance. So this is a time I think all the effective people, not only us will have a chance to increase their sale-in this segment? Yeah. So is this sort of a few quarter phenomenon? I mean, it’s not spread across the whole year, right? Is my understanding correct on the cement volumes?
Parmod Sagar
Yes, you are right, these two quarters normally are strong from, say, July to September or so, beginning as maybe June and it’s sometime spill-over to October. And these are the strong time and one thing more is there, if there is a project one or two project come in-between, whether it’s Jan to March or October to December, then it is upside. If somebody is putting up a new, etc, then it is almost INR56 crore project.
So if you get last quarter, there was no project. In October to December quarter, there was a project. So it also depends upon in which quarter project comes or if it comes in every quarter then it is a very similar type of shift. So just to give you some numbers around this, if you look at our Q3, we said we had a record revenue — revenue in the last quarter. That is also shipment as well, again contributed by cement volumes and as mentioned also for some of the project orders in our iron-making business that we added up delivering.
Sahil Sanghvi
But these project business are quite absolutely — I will not Call-IT seasonal, I’ll Call-IT sporadic because it depends upon when the customer wants to commission, whereas cement is quite seasonal and predictable, if that answers your question?
Yes, yes, that does. And just my second question on the Dalmia revenues or the volumes on an annual basis, I mean, how do we see this asset ramping-up in the next two, three years? What will be the few factors which will help us do this? I mean, I understand there is a refurbishment or you’re bringing in new technology and new machinery, but then what needs to be done on the marketing front or on the customer front or anything on the product front over here at Dalmia?
Parmod Sagar
Sure. So in coming months, you will see a lot of local for local production, which now is coming from China or Europe, particularly for cement, fired, bricks, etc. We have already done the technology transfer. We produce 500 ton, we supply to two supplier customers, performance is under evaluation and within next two, three months, we will produce another 1,000 tonne and supply to four, five customers.
So this year probably calendar year is a trial time. And from Jan onwards, if trials went well, probably it will add INR100 crore next year in that particular segment only. And then we have a strong market also for magnesia carbon and our Qatar plant is full running at full capacity and now from last month, we start producing in Dalmia plant about 600, 700 ton of this Manisha carbon bricks also for steel industries, which we will ramp-up to 1,000 ton every month.
So that will also give us about INR100 crore or so next year. So these are the upside apart from what the product I told you, high-end products which we are bringing to India. Mostly it will be in or in Beiwadi or in-plant or few in Rajarpur also. But it will be spread not only in-plant. Exciting, sir, very exciting.
Sahil Sanghvi
Thank you so much for this information and very all the best, sir. Thank you.
Parmod Sagar
Thank you. Thank you,.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Chintan Shah from JM Financial. Please go-ahead.
Chintan Shah
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. So I had a few questions broadly around the industry. You have been mentioning that there has been a significant overcapacity in the industry. So if you could highlight what sort of industry capacity currently is there and going ahead, any sort of expansion sir that is coming in? And secondly, considering the growth that we expect in the End-User industry, when do you think This overcapacity situation normalizes? That is the first question.
Parmod Sagar
Okay. Okay. So basically on paper, the projects announced by our competition or refractory industry is about 150,000 tonne to 170,000 ton, okay, which will come up in next one year or so. And you know India is perceived to be growth market and every company, whether it’s global or local, want to take advantage of this growth. So everybody is putting up capacity. We acquired two, three companies definitely, but we have not added the capacity. We are working on optimizing rather the production.
We stop one plant, maybe in coming days we will think of further how we can consolidate, not increase the capacities or greenfield. So we have our own plans how to consolidate and give right product to the market?
Chintan Shah
Got it, understood. But consider, is it fair to say that next two, three years, even two, three years out, this overcapacity situation will continue to play-out or do you think the situation will much better, say, two, three years out once the demand comes in?
Parmod Sagar
So I would say very frankly it is a matter of fittest survival. So the companies who were really deliver consistent product with the right cost will survive. In 2005 to 2007, this type of machine rooming was also happened. And in next four years of time, all these small companies vanish. Every company has their own strengths and weaknesses just to enter the market seeing that magneceta is growing in this segment or is growing in this segment, why not we?
So it is a wishful thinking and maybe people have earned a lot of money to now spend on these expansions. But we are not too much worried about this. We have to crack our house, have to remain ahead of our competition with innovation, R&D activities, product optimization. So we have to be cautious, but not oversely worried about the end, just to kind of underline some of the things where from our remarks early, just to kind of remind everyone, in cement, we are the only provider who can give end-to-end solution.
Let it be basic, non-basics or possible. In case of steel, most of the major expansion is on the blast furnace route. And here is where we did already establish ourselves in the iron-making part and with the product transfers and capex investments, we are well-poised to take advantage of it. Again, we have built it up in the last two years to have this capability, not as a far off a moment as-is mentioning. Just to connect it with what’s happening.
Chintan Shah
Got it, understood. Sir, second question is regarding comments, you mentioning that there is a sort of a commoditization that has been happening in the refactories. So just wanted to understand this better. So what has actually led to this?
Parmod Sagar
Because earlier my understanding was that considering the cost of the end-customer and the criticality of the refactories, I mean, customers are pretty much sticky with the best sort of supplier best quality. But now basically what is leading to this commotization, what is driving this change from a customer perspective that they are willing to shift customer just because you offer some lower pricing. So just if you can help us understand.
So I can put it in two baskets. One is the specialized product, very critical products, which we are producing in flow control area and is producing in flow control area. That has got commoditized. That’s why you see very consistent performance of and RHA Magnesita India Limited in that segment. Our margins before we acquired Dalmia was about 17% 18% EBITDA. We still have enjoying that type of EBITDA when we take-out those flow control products.
So that marquee is very consistent, very product and quality consistent sensitive. The customer don’t play around with that segment. When it comes to a commodity market, when it comes to ladder bricks, working lining where the customer think, okay, I have a guarantee of heat. So if somebody is from China or from local, you know L number of now, 12 13 small players are there for ladder bricks for steel industry.
The customer has a guarantee. If you know small player is giving 20% or 10% of 15% lower-price and for that guarantee, what is matter to the customer if it will come down to one in the 10, they will deduct a pro payment also. So their cost is coming down. And from last seven, eight months, you — everybody knows, steel industry was also under pressure because of import from China, etc.
And now with this 12% duty on some special steel products that they are breathing a little more easily and they probably want to think again or to handle this situation, but they were under pressure. So they wanted to control their cut expenses. But in particular segment where they don’t have productivity impacting issues.
Chintan Shah
Got it, understood. So sir,, if you could give this mix between specialty and commodity, that would be helpful for all of us.
Parmod Sagar
So you know normally specialty products are to that level of 25% to 30% of total steel stay.
Chintan Shah
Okay. Okay. Got it. Understood. Just one last question. I mean if I see our presentation through previous quarter and current quarter, so if we see the requirement of refactories for say one ton of steel, I see that previous quarter you mentioned it was 10 to 15 kg. I mean the current PT you mentioned 8 to 13 kg.
Parmod Sagar
So I mean, is there any structurally any change here in terms of the requirement of refractories or first of all, great observation, a very few people would have picked it up. What we had done this time is that we have split the refractory consumption to steel-making and iron-making. So if you compare the last-time, you will not see the iron numbers. So because it’s our focus areas, so you see the iron-making numbers, the 10 kilograms minus 8, 2 kilograms have gone there. Just to kind of to show the growth potential.
Yeah, at the same time, the steel industry keep on asking better and better products when it comes to high-end products. So they want to continue casting sequence level from now, I’ll give you example, Mittal, eight months back, they were having 12 hour casting time just and for things like when we went for the trial, it was very successful. Then they asked 20 hour casting time. So it took us six months-to develop that product and now that part will be developed and now they are saying 24 hours.
So the factory consumption continuously coming down in steel industry. About 10 years back, it was 15 16 kg. Now it has eight to 13 KG, 13 KG is the plant which are really not taking care of their refractory, their solution, et-cetera and going for commodity business like this low-end products buying from anybody, the consumption will go up. Upfront, they will be thinking that we are buying cheaper, but eventually the life will be less, the consumption will be more.
But all efficient plants as of now are running at 8kg to 9 kg consumption.
Chintan Shah
Got it. Understood. Understood. Got it. So thank you and all the best. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you,. Yeah. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that would be the last question for today. And I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Parmod Sagar
Thank you. Thank you very much, dear investors, shareholders, analysts, you — your feedbacks are always very welcome and it gave us, you know the thoughts, how we are working, where we need to improve and we always take every comment in a positive way. So we will keep on working on improving our performance. But as I said, the fundamental of are very strong and we believe in that the global management believe in that and I think you people are also believe in our thought process and keep supporting us and we will deliver much better results in coming days. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of Asian Market Securities, That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.