RAJRATAN GLOBAL WIRE LTD (NSE: RAJRATAN) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated Apr. 22, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Sunil Chordia — Chairman & Managing Director
Yashovardhan Chordia — Non-Executive Director
Pranay Jain — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Sailesh Raja — Analyst
Arnav Sakhuja — Analyst
Sanjay Shah — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Ananya Nichani — Analyst
Preet Pitani — Analyst
Rajesh Disale — Analyst
Dhruv Bhatia — Analyst
Bhargav Buddhadev — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Rajrathan Global Wires Limited Q4 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by B&K Securities. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.I now hand the conference over to Mr Raja from B&K Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you.
Sailesh Raja — Analyst
Thanks, Manav. Good evening all, and thank you for joining us from Global 4th-quarter of FY ’25 Earnings conference call. During this call from the management side, we’ll be hearing from Mr Sunil Chodia, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr Yasha, Executive Director; Mr Jain, CFO, Thailand; and Mr Hite Jain, CFO, India.
I would now like to turn the call to Chairman for the opening remarks, followed by Q&A. Over to you, sir.
Sunil Chordia — Chairman & Managing Director
So good afternoon, dear shareholders. Happy to connect with all of you again. We ended the year with a positive note on several sectors and amongst them was a increase in the capacity utilization of Chennai and we have started seeing good results in export market for which we have been working for last two years now.
Last quarter, both Chennai — sorry, and Thailand operated at 85% 90% capacity utilization and Chennai has also started improvement in terms of volume, okay. So this quarter results have much better than quarter three and we are not selling lot of quantity to North India customers produced in Chennai, which has reduced the losses in Chennai.
And now a lot of the big companies are accruing our Chennai facility and going down the line, we see that Chennai capacity utilization will improve and there will be substantial saving in the freight cost of serving to customers because that is the way we have put up the facility in Chennai. And along with that, I would also like to comment that this US tariffs have not affected us in any manner. But if at all it is Affected, it is a positive effect because the tariff on China is higher than tariffon India okay, on our products. And yes, I’m looking-forward to a better year ’25, ’26 and once again thank all the shareholders for showing their confidence on. Yeah. I’m ready to take questions from here.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles
The first question is from the line of Shakuja from Ambit Capital. Please go-ahead.
Arnav Sakhuja
Thanks for taking my question. So I just wanted to know, could you please give us some insight into the current outlook of the Indian tire industry
Sunil Chordia
The current outlook remains same. There is sort of whatever we are meeting the customers, we are tell we are getting an information that will continue to grow at 5.6% not beyond that.
Arnav Sakhuja
Yeah, thank you thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Sanjay Shah from KSI Securities. Please go-ahead.
Sanjay Shah
Yeah, good evening, sir. Thanks for opportunity. Thank you guys are appreciating the numbers of —
Operator
Sorry to interrupt, Mr Sanjay, can you please be a little louder?
Sanjay Shah
Yeah. Appreciating the performance of FY ’25 in these challenging circumstances. Sir, my question was regarding our new initiative on wire ropes. Can you highlight and make us understand if it will be helpful to us, the capacity you’ve announced is around 10,000 tonne per annum. So what will be the cost, what will be the timeline, what ROEA you expect from that and what will be the capex required for that?
Sunil Chordia
Yeah. So first of all, I would like to talk about there is an eco when I speak, hello.
Sanjay Shah
Okay.
Sunil Chordia
So the rationale behind this decision is that the project that you have customers will shift to tenant because we are closer to many customers whom we are serving from in the office and there will be some capacity available in Pitampur. Along with that, we also have a 12,000 tonnes capacity for black wire.
And amongst black wire, we have lot of customers who make wire rope out-of-the black wire we supply to them. So you know, Pitampur being the mother facility, we have a lot of talented people who know the business, who are with us and for some reasons, they can’t shift to a new location and to keep them busy and to keep the factory as profitable as it was, we have decided to add value to our current — current product-line. So 12,000 tons of black wire, we will now add value to that product and start making wire ropes. That is the thinking. Of course, rope has better profitability and more value addition.
And if you look at Usha Martin or Bharat Wairo, so it is similar business we will be doing. We have facilities up to making wire and heat treatment processes, extra capacities are there, which we will utilize to make viral. This is the part behind investing into this business. We have bought a plant which was available in Europe and we saw that these are very good-quality of machines. So those machines are being shifted to facility and it will take about one year to start production of wire ops, okay.
And this is going to be the — I’ll say the pilot project for, if we are successful, we will in future invest in a big way in also. So the idea behind this is that has become a INR1,000 crore-plus company and we are up till now focused on only one-product, BeedWire. And going-forward, we don’t see a very-high scope of growth and investment in, okay.
We are already the biggest supplier in India. We are biggest supplier in Thailand, which are two big markets in Asia. Along with that, we have also started exporting from Chennai and also from Thailand. So we have to utilize the cash-flow to invest in some profitable business. So that is the basic thinking behind this initiative. The total investment we plan will be around INR50 crores to create a capacity of 10,000 tonnes of viro, which will generate revenue of INR100 crores. This is the projection, but it is still almost three, four quarters away from today. Yeah, it’s. I hope I have answered your question.
Sanjay Shah
Yes, sir, really very helpful. Only my worry was regarding technology part and a customer who need approvals and all. So I think you must be working on that, I’m sure about.
Sunil Chordia
No, no. We — as I told you, 50% 60% of the process we were already doing,
Sanjay Shah
Okay.
Sunil Chordia
So we don’t need many technical people. We have R&D facility here. We have people who have worked in business earlier and if required few people will hire, okay, especially for marketing when we start making it, then this product has an export potential also, okay. So that is the path we want to take. Yeah.
Sanjay Shah
That’s correct. That’s great. Sir, my second question was regarding our Chennai facility. So this year, what is our target utilization or tonnage wise?
Sunil Chordia
So we should be doing around 20,000 tonnes production in Chennai this year. That is the business plan we have made, okay? And we are not projecting any growth in. Some of the volume may reduce, okay. But all this depends on how fast and how much accrual we get and geographically where we supply from which plant, okay. So — but standalone Chennai should produce and sell 20,000 tons, including export from Chennai.
Sanjay Shah
Absolutely. Got it, sir. Thank you, sir and wish you good luck, sir. Thank you.
Sunil Chordia
Thank you, Sanjesh.
Operator
Thank you thank you. We have our next question from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor Co. Please go-ahead.,
Unidentified Participant
[Foreign Speech] and thank you for this opportunity. Sir, firstly, just [Foreign Speech] you mentioned, we have already purchased the plant and machinery parts. So if you could just elaborate further on the same how much have we spent you were, you were telling about the machineries to be imported from Europe.
Sunil Chordia
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it was a fairly new facility of continental tires, which was there and the conditions of the machine was very good. And so we thought it is a very competitive price at which we are getting. So we entered into an agreement with the suppliers and our Board also approved yesterday to buy those machines. So is the status.
Total investment in this project will be INR50 crores as I told you, which will be 50% on the core planting machinery and 50% on the building and other infrastructure. Yeah.
Unidentified Participant
So we will be housing the infrastructure — the plant in the same-unit where we are currently running.
Sunil Chordia
In the same we have space and we are making some modification in the — so we’ll have to construct around 10,000 square meter of shed. So we are dismantling one of our oldest factory shed and we’ll be building up a new shed there. So we will start the work very soon. Yeah.
Unidentified Participant
And Continental Tires, it’s operationalized here that they have operationalized it as a.
Sunil Chordia
July, last year July plant was in operation.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. So what led to their deciding to close itself, but it was unwiable size or the market conditions
Sunil Chordia
Were making — they were not making wire offs, they were making a product which goes for
Unidentified Participant
Tire — for conveyor building, which is their raw-material. And they found that it is not viable to make this capacity, this product in Europe Manga and there is a possibility that we become an exporter to them, but I don’t want to commit anything hedging at this point of time.
Sunil Chordia
Okay. So with some modification, we will be in the segment from the same equipment, which they were using for making conveyor beds. That is what the — they were making raw-material for conveyor, okay. Those same machines will make via op also.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, now in your presentation, sir, you mentioned about capacity addition in the bead wired segment domestically. So sir, Ravi, which are the new players, how much capacity has been added in the country for this financial year?
Sunil Chordia
Playing this year, two years back, Tata has doubled their capacity. We invested in Chennai, we have put up a big capacity. Our friend RT Steel has also started a new line in and the big company, has invested big way into this product also. So we are cautious about this and we also take our competitors seriously.
Unidentified Participant
So in percentage,, I think we are above 40% in the market shares that is currently for the year as of now. How is the market-share
Sunil Chordia
Market-share could come, okay. So see this is a product which is very difficult to get approval. And fortunately, compared to any other line or other increasing capacity. Tennai has got approval faster, I can play. We have approvals from MRF, we have approvals from Apollo. We have approval this month and we’ll get approval from CAT three major companies and BKT has approved us long back. So we will be able to breakeven from next quarter, the Chennai facility. So up till now, Chennai was making losses and whatever results you see had the losses incorporated in the working from. Okay.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Just to add to it, sir, what can you quantify for us and what quarterly — last quarter, what were the losses and we have a fixed-cost for the tender plant.
Sunil Chordia
After breaking it to EBITDA level pay, we have done almost the same figure as compared to last year, but very-high depreciation and very-high finance cost and some other expenses also are high. And all this is because of investment in Chennai. And any — I have seen this in every growth phase when we went to Thailand and invested in Thailand, it took us long-time to be successful. When we started this product in 96 in Indore, it took us very long-time.
Compared to that, I’m happy that we know this business and we have made the very first production first coil required for the customer and accordingly, we are getting approval also and we’ll be exporting, I think substantial quantity from Chennai now in this current financial year.
Unidentified Participant
Right. Just to conclude, sir, so can you give the volume number basically from the unit for this quarter, March quarter? And what are the
Sunil Chordia
March quarter no total for the year, I can tell you that we have done production of 5,000 tonnes or for the whole year, out of which some quantity was capitalized because trial run losses had to be capitalized for WIP machines. And we have given a note in — along with our results. So you can look into that.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And this 5,000 is expected, we are envising it to hit 20,000 for this financial.
Sunil Chordia
For this financial year, it should be — our target is to reach up to 20,000 tons.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And sir, coming to the finance cost and the net-debt number, if our CFO sir would help us with what the current debt numbers are, our cost of funds and the current maturity stuff, for cost of fund is around 8% to 8.2% and the net-debt number is around INR150 crore on a standalone basis. On consol number sir, how much is the debt? The long-term debt. And okay, sir, but this net, this number of long-term loan on standalone of INR150 crore includes the Chennai facility debt also.
Sunil Chordia
Yeah, yeah.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And what are our current maturities for this current financial year? How much is?
Sunil Chordia
INR38 crore,
Unidentified Participant
INR38 crores. And for the rating part sir, when is our rating due the revision due in next month next year. Thank you. I’ll join the queue, sir. Asked, could cost-efficiency measures maybe added or elaborate the Thailand part after mentioned, we could count and I join the question to rejoin the queue.
Sunil Chordia
Yeah
Operator
Hello. Hello. We have our next question from the line of Darshal Zaveri from Crown Capital. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Good evening, sir. Thank you so much for taking my question. Firstly, congratulations on a great set of results, sir. So sir, just wanted to know like what is our revenue guidance if you can give for next year and any projections in terms of EBITDA that we can think of for next FY ’26, sir?
Sunil Chordia
We are not projecting a great improvement in EBITDA number. There might be a little improvement in EBITDA percentage because of utilization of Chennai facility, which will reduce our overall cost, okay? So — and we are projecting at least 15% volume growth from here for the next year. Yeah.
Unidentified Participant
15% volume growth, okay. Okay, fair enough, sir. Sir, just wanted to know like our current and Thailand facilities are at around 85%, 90% utilization. So now if you want to increase that, are we doing some debottlenecking the utilization volume level will be similar from that and the extra 15% is just going to come from the Chennai plant that you were saying or how will it come in?
Sunil Chordia
Yeah, I think in the previous question I explained in much detail, we are also seeing projecting that many customers will like to buy more from Chennai, okay. So we’ll have spare capacity in-plant. And out of that spare capacity, we want to add value to our business by producing steel okay. So that is the kind of debottlenecking or growth in the product-line or product mix, you can say it like that. Yes.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, fair, fair enough. Got it, sir. And sir, just wanted to know like our Chennai plant, so currently like because it was a bit lower utilization, in the current year, what kind of cost like loss that it would have made because next year we are saying it will become breakeven and maybe profitable also. So just wanted, okay, in current year, impact of made a
Sunil Chordia
Loss of around INR112 crores in gener, which has hit the bottom-line by around INR11 crores. And I think INR10 crores we have capitalized as you know, trial run losses.
Unidentified Participant
Okay.
Sunil Chordia
As per the ASTM accounting standard.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay, fair enough. So this plow loss will also not be that would also help our bottom-line, sir. Okay. And sir, just wanted to know, sir, after that, sir, like now we are going into a newer product-line also that you’re seeing maybe three, four quarters down the line that we capitalize. So what is our vision? Like do we have any long-term vision that we would like to state for like maybe for a three or five-year plan that where do we see ourselves?
Sunil Chordia
No, this year, frankly, I have been through making ropes for last 26, right, 30 years, but we could never do that because all the financial capacity management capacity and the market was available for. Now as I told you, we are already having major market shares in India, Thailand, Asia and some market-share will have out of our total 180,000 tons capacity in Europe and America also. So I think it is the right time to do little diversification and Add one more product, which is similar in culture, okay. So via rope is the right product, we are — as told you in the earlier question, we are already doing 60% of the work that manufacturing processes are available. We are adding machines to finish it into ropes, okay. So there are multiple applications of IRO. You all know elevators, cranes, hoist, engineering ropes, multiple application is there.
Unidentified Participant
So we want to —
Sunil Chordia
This can be considered as a pilot project of Wairo, okay. I know 1,000 tons or 10,000 tonnes per annum is not a very big, but we don’t want to make a big investment and not utilize it, okay? Even approvals and market and brand will take some time to stabilize. Once we are successful in this product, maybe two, three years down the line, we plan a bigger investment in business. Cautiously doing it. Cautiously doing it. Let me see.
Unidentified Participant
No, no, no, that makes perfect sense for us. It’s better to have all our ducks in the row and then go for it. So thank you so much, sir. All the best, sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Dipti Jain from. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, hello.
Sunil Chordia
Yeah, see.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, sir, I wanted to know the — is that status of the Chennai plant? Because I can see depreciation has really gone up. So is it because of the Chennai plant?
Sunil Chordia
Yes, yes. And we have invested around INR240 crores in Chennai in last year. So which has increased the depreciation and also the finance cost in the numbers. And that facility is yet to come into full utilization, which will happen this year. Yeah, and this happens with any manufacturing setup, okay, any new setup will have a interest burden and depreciation burden
Unidentified Participant
Okay, got it. And sir, I can see a 2% increase in the gross gross profit margin where do you think that like what is attributable to that?
Sunil Chordia
No, it is because we sold lot of material in-quarter three to North India customers. And this quarter we refrained from doing that. And you know we were producing in and selling in North India and incurring the transportation cost of 10% on the product, okay? We have not done that and that is why you see better contribution or better gross profit for quarter-four compared to quarter three. So the savings in the freight cost, rather that was a mistake in-quarter three, okay, which we have not done. We have not repeated it.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And I think you mentioned we have closed that business of the cycle market cycle market in Ludhiana low
Sunil Chordia
We are — for now, we are staying away from that market. That is not a profitable market anymore. So as I told you, lot of capacities have come up and let our friends supply to that market.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sir. And sir, this wire business like already two major players are there in this. Is there room for a new player getting in and making its mark like maybe in another three, four years?
Sunil Chordia
Yeah. So this is also a growing market, okay? And we are not investing INR500 crores into this business. We are investing only INR50 crores, which I think we have a market and we should be able to get good-quality production and good-quality customers and profitable business. So we don’t believe in investing heavily and underutilizing the plant, okay. So that is why we are starting small-business
Unidentified Participant
But the TAM, the addressable market for this bead wire is slowly diminishing. You are saying we are almost there everywhere. So as a
Sunil Chordia
We can’t — we can’t continue to plan, plan 15% 20% growth in beadwire. Okay. And company wants to continue growing at that speed, okay. So one more product is needed.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Thanks so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ananya Nichani from ThinkWise Wealth Managers. Please go-ahead.
Ananya Nichani
Hi, sir. Am I audible?
Sunil Chordia
Yes.
Ananya Nichani
Yeah, I just wanted to ask regarding Chennai, other revenue for Q2 and Q3 included in India Financials?, I didn’t get your call question. So in Q2 and Q3, I believe INR12 and INR20 crores of revenue you did from Chennai. Is that correct?
Sunil Chordia
I’ll tell you. Total revenue from Chennai has been INR26.26 crores.
Ananya Nichani
Okay. Okay, okay.
Sunil Chordia
For the whole year.
Ananya Nichani
Consolidated into India financials.
Sunil Chordia
And these are — these are part of the India financials.
Ananya Nichani
Okay, okay. Got it. Okay. But the expenses are not part of the P&L statement that’s
Sunil Chordia
Also expenses also. You see higher-cost of interest, higher-cost of depreciation.
Ananya Nichani
Okay.
Sunil Chordia
It’s all because of semic. Yeah.
Ananya Nichani
Okay, got it. And sales volumes from Chennai and what could you
Sunil Chordia
We did total production of 5,000 tons. We did sell to customers 3,000 tons and we sold all the 5,000 tons, but out of that 2,2300 tonnes odd is trial production, which is not reflected in the sales number because that that’s working and the losses are capitalized.
Ananya Nichani
Okay. Okay.
Sunil Chordia
You’ve given a detailed note our auditor has given a note on that. You can — it is quite excluding nutrition, yeah.
Ananya Nichani
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Preet from Incred AMC. Please go-ahead.
Preet Pitani
Yeah. Hello. Thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to ask on the freight cost. If you could tell the number what would it — what was the cost in-quarter three and quarter-four? And as you mentioned in the previous call that because of this freight cost, there will be savings of 3K — around 3K per tonne. So has this started at INR26.
Sunil Chordia
I think in the previous quarter, we must-have talked about the extra freight we paid-for material we sold-in North India and we decided not to continue that, which was the major reason for losses in Chennai. And we — this quarter we have saved on that. And that is why you see the bounce-back of the profit, okay. Generally there is a INR3,000 to INR4,000 saving on freight because of the location of Chennai plant, which is closer to customer and little closer to raw-material supplier also.
Preet Pitani
Yes, got it. And one more question. If you could just tell me the volume of Blackwire as well as from the Indian plant, the difference, how much volume was from BlackWire?
Sunil Chordia
Yeah, one minute. We did 12,000 tons of black wire. We did 12,000 tons of black wire but exact numbers are quite sure. Rest was all coated via. Yeah.
Preet Pitani
So what would be the realization difference between Black and?
Sunil Chordia
I can tell you the EBITDA number in we are able to hit 14% 15% EBITDA. In Blackwire, it is 8%, 9% okay.
Preet Pitani
And one more last question. This quarter Thailand was a very muted quarter for the Thailand subsidiary. So when can we see revival in this
Sunil Chordia
Sorry, can you come again?
Preet Pitani
Do you see any revival in financial year ’26 or it will take time?
Sunil Chordia
No, Thailand, you will see a growth in this year, okay, at least in volume, 5,000, 6,000 tons growth will be there and you will also see the customer profile changing in Thailand, which will improve the profitability . So we are sitting with major approvals from some multinational companies. So volume will be going to them. I think can talk more about it. He is there on the call.?
Yashovardhan Chordia
Yeah, hi. Can you hear me?
Sunil Chordia
Yeah, yeah.
Yashovardhan Chordia
Yeah. So yeah, definitely Thailand year, not even the quarter. The year has been quite muted, but for next year, our strategy of continuing with operating the plant at the highest utilization is still intact. We don’t want to leave any market for the competition. Definitely, the price levels of Thailand are at international level. There’s more competition and the country is also importing bead wire from many countries, especially China.
But there will be a change in the profile of customers the approvals that we have already received and initial lots have already gone last year. So we are sure that should convert into much bigger volumes this year. And I can also see exports to Europe and America increasing from Thailand. So rather than most of the exports going to Southeast Asia, I think some volumes will shift to Europe and America as well.
Preet Pitani
Yeah, but this quarter there was no problem with the volumes. The major problem was on the margin levels. I’m asking about the margin, will it come back to old levels or will it now continue at 7%, 8% only?
Yashovardhan Chordia
I can see definitely next year the margins would improve to about 10%, 10% to 11%.
Preet Pitani
Next year means FY ’26 you are here
Sunil Chordia
Is also on the call you want to say something
Pranay Jain
Hello
Sunil Chordia
Our CFO from Thailand who also now.
Pranay Jain
Yes. So hi, this is Pranet. So as sir has mentioned, you are going to witness that the key customers where we have already supplied the lots are unapproved already and we will see a substantial volume to be supplied to them in this year, which will definitely improve the margins because the realization is quite better and we are targeting to hit the EBITDA level of 10% to 11% has come from sir. I can vouch for it.
Preet Pitani
Okay. Yeah, lovely. Thank you. And one question. Actually, in terms of the volumes, unfortunately, Thailand had a major breakdown in the last 10 days of March. So we actually lost about 1,000 tons of sales in this financial year. Otherwise volumes would have been slightly better than what it is — what it was. What will be the reason of this breakdown?
Yashovardhan Chordia
No, we just had some issue in terms of the equipment in the line, but that is rectified and sorted within a couple of days. But unfortunately, we missed selling the — against the orders that we already had in-hand?
Preet Pitani
Okay, got it. One last question. Regarding the supplies to stone, you mentioned that you have already supplied some new commercial quantities and we can see — do we see any traction or do we receive any new — did we receive any new order?
Pranay Jain
Yeah, quarter one order for next financial year is much higher than what we sold to them in-quarter four of last year. Moving forward, we see clarity that the volumes would increase. And also trial lots to Bridstone Europe and Britstone America are on the way. So in the second-half of next financial year, we are expecting some volumes will start going to the Bridstone Europe and America plants also.
Preet Pitani
Thank you. I’ll join in the queue.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Sara from UVR Investments. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my question is, we are currently making INR5 per kg EBITDA in Thailand. When can we achieve INR10 per kg EBITDA and what will drive this? And how are we seeing — how we’re going to adjust the competition from the Chinese players?
Sunil Chordia
Will you answer this?,
Pranay Jain
Yes, sir, I’ll answered it. So as we are already — we have already explained that this year we are going to supply, but you can see in our commentary by MD sir also, we have mentioned, we are not targeting a higher-volume growth in Thailand. We are majorly focusing to shift the customer combination. We are trying to cater those customers who can give us a proper realization.
So definitely, we are not going to reduce the volume to our Chinese customers, but we are going to have this incremental volumes to customers who have better realization. So we are quite confident we will have improved margins in the coming year, which is FY ’26, ’27. Sorry, FY ’25, ’26.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay, sir. And sir, we are targeting to do exports to USA and Europe. In USA, particularly including with tariffs, how competitive we are compared to the local players and what’s the right to win for the business? And also what is the total opportunity size in US and what share are we targeting there?
Pranay Jain
Just a minute, I would just add one more thing. You mentioned INR5 rupees per kilo EBITDA per Thailand. I think that is not the correct number. It should be around INR8.5, so which should be in the range of around INR20 rupees per kilo EBITDA, INR21 per kilo EBITDA for Thailand. So not INR5. I think you have to check each of your number.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sir, because as per my calculation is coming INR5 per EBITDA.
Pranay Jain
If you see standalone for, it is not INR5, it is INR20 to INR21 rupees per ko.
Sunil Chordia
So that is the gross profit Pranai, okay, EBITDA, so you can get on a separate call with Pranai. If you want to, he’ll explain you. You are doing what you must be doing, you are deducting from consolidation, okay, and then arriving at a number, which may not be right.
Unidentified Participant
So 20,000 is the gross profit, that is correct. Yeah, okay, okay.
Pranay Jain
Yeah, yeah.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, so this question. So yeah, I asked the question
Sunil Chordia
Your question regarding — I think your question regarding the competition in US. See, we are always and will always be competitive when you compare it to the local manufacturers in the US because all the cost factors are much higher and even the raw-material price for those manufacturers in the US is much higher. But to cater to the US market, the direct competition was China, because that’s where we have to compete.
With the older tariffs also, we were competing with China and getting into customers. And now with the change in tariffs till the time the tariffs remains same, China is going to be much, much more expensive than us. So in the immediate short-term, we are expecting that the volumes to the US market should increase
Unidentified Participant
Like after the 25% of tariff, still we are very competitive in the local players in the US.
Pranay Jain
So we always had 25% tariff and it remains at 25%. But for China, it was around 30% 32%, which has now become 59% or 57%. So that is the change that has happened.
Unidentified Participant
So what is the total opportunity size in US and what the share are we targeting?
Pranay Jain
It’s difficult to share exact numbers, but I think a sizable opportunity. US is one of the largest tire producing country. We also have a lot of other wire applications. So US as a market has very, very big volumes and it will be good to be substantially present in US in the longer-term.
Sunil Chordia
But our target is traction of that market, okay. It doesn’t come so easily. But definitely we see a traction since the tariff war started, we see a traction from our customers in US, they want to buy more from us.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. Okay, sir. Sir, why has the working capital cycle increased by-15 days to 63 days from FY ’24, are we expecting to maintain it or planning to reduce it
Sunil Chordia
Would be? So it is partly because of larger export volumes where the material takes about 45 days to reach, okay? And then there is a one-month payment cycle. So you know the overall debt number you see is because of that debtors.
Unidentified Participant
Okay.
Sunil Chordia
Yeah.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay, sir. And one last question, sir. The volume growth in India was 17%. From where are we seeing such high-growth or volume growth
Sunil Chordia
In India was 12%. Hello
Unidentified Participant
So it was 17% year-on-year 18,400. Yeah, yes, sir.
Sunil Chordia
No, quarter-on-quarter I’m seeing that quarter overall.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, quarter-on-quarter well.
Sunil Chordia
I would like to look at the annual growth, not the quarter-on-quarter growth, which might be a wrong indication. Yeah. So in India, we have grown by 12% in volume.
Unidentified Participant
Where growth coming from, sir
Sunil Chordia
Is partly coming from the growth in the tire industry and we are taking a larger share from bigger customers. That’s all
Unidentified Participant
I’ll join back-in the queue. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have a next question from the line of Rajesh Desale from SBI Mutual Fund. Please go-ahead
Rajesh Disale
Yeah. Hi, I just wanted to get a few clarity — a few things clarified. First was on your guidance that you will see a 15% volume growth in FY ’26. So could you just help us like where do you see that growth coming from? Because you said Thai growth will be 5% to 6% and your market-share has kind of matured in India and Thailand.
Sunil Chordia
Yeah. So this 15% guidance is including some growth in Thailand, which is around — we are — our annual business plan is for 5,000 tons growth in Thailand and around 15,000 to 18,000 tons growth in India, okay. This will come mainly from we being closer to our customer, okay? Because we had discussions and every tire company wants the supplier to be closer to him. So and we’ll be more competitive from our Chennai facility, which should give us larger volume.
So as I told you in the past that the Chennai facility has 10 tire companies which are in the radius of 250 to 300 kilometers where material can reach overnight. Compared to we are supplying from Indor, it takes about a week’s time. Somebody supplying from North India will take 12 to 15 days and tire companies are not comfortable with that.Okay. So — and this is based on our discussion with customers and discussions for annual business with especially four big customers, yeah
Rajesh Disale
You said our market-share has matured, right? So where do we stand today and where do you think we will kind of peak out in terms of market-share?
Sunil Chordia
We are — as I told you, we are already at 40%. So 40 can always become 40% to 43, okay. We are not talking of 40 becoming 60 anytime, okay. And major growth this year, at least 7,000 tons of export will increase. Yes, Adam can talk more about that. So we are targeting 7,000 tonnes additional exports from Indian ports to US and Europe.
Rajesh Disale
Okay. And sir, on the same, when you talked about the volume growth, you also talked about EBITDA, I actually could not understand you said EBITDA margins will increase, but absolute EBITDA might not increase.
Sunil Chordia
No, no, no, no. Sorry, no, no. I don’t think I said this. I said there might be a little improvement in the EBITDA margin because of the better utilization of capacity, which will reduce our cost of manufacturing, which will result into 1% or 2 percentage of EBITDA improvement. That’s it.
Rajesh Disale
Okay.
Sunil Chordia
I said that we are very — we are taking our competition seriously and we are not anticipating that we’ll increase the prices, okay?
Rajesh Disale
Understood.
Sunil Chordia
Prices will continue to be under pressure because there is an extra capacity in the market, okay.
Rajesh Disale
Understood. Understood. Okay. That’s all from me. Thank you very much.
Sunil Chordia
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Dhruv Bhatia from Adelweiss Mutual Fund. Please go-ahead.
Dhruv Bhatia
Hi, good even sir. Sir, couple of questions. Just the first clarification, you did about 1,12,000 tonnes of volume for FY ’25. And if you are talking about a 15% volume growth, so you’re adding about, 16,000 tons of incremental volume. And since Chennai itself is doing 5,000 and you go to 20,000 for the year, which you are guiding for, plus you’re talking about 5,000 coming from Thailand that itself is 20,000. So is it that which show lower-volume for the year
Sunil Chordia
Or volumes might reduce because we are serving lot of customers from to South India and the supplies to those customers from Pikampur will reduce. Secondly, last year also, I had said some number and I couldn’t achieve that. So this year, we want to be cautiously careful in our enough projections. We don’t want to commit a number where I had to face questions from my investors.
Dhruv Bhatia
Understood. And sir, the other thing, just one again a clarity, you mentioned that the key customers from the Chennai facility, the approval from and of them have already come or they are still under the trial stage.
Sunil Chordia
So no, no approvals have come. You know, there are multiple products. So like for some product, we have approval to supply 100 tons next month. For another product, we have approval to supply 200 tons next month. So the volumes will shift to Chennai, okay, out of total supplies to MRS or Apollo, which we are doing from. They have started saying that now this product you can supply 100 tons next month from US facility, okay, we’ll watch that. And then slowly it will grow from there.
So I was seeing a period cut volume of 1,000 tons to 1,200 tons starting quarter two from Chennai, which is combination of local supplies to premium customers and exporting from Chennai. And we have done some calculation that 1,000 to 1,100 tons we bridge one in Chennai, right? So losses will stop, I think from May, June, we should not be making losses in China.
Dhruv Bhatia
Yeah. And we are — I think last year a PBT loss of INR10 crores from Chennai, I’m guessing that IN 10,000 INR11,000 once you breakeven, then for FY ’26 at PBT level, we should see profit from the next.
Sunil Chordia
Definitely, yes.
Dhruv Bhatia
And the last question, sir, just anything on the tariff bid, it’s early, but in a Thailand facility, a lot of bumping anyways happens from China. And since the imposition of tariffs on other from US, does that lead to the competitive intensity and then the risk to profitability volumes higher from the Thailand facility.
Sunil Chordia
When bead wire directly will not be affected by tariffs. Indirect effect may be there because tires will also have tariffs, okay. Tires produced in Thailand will have tariffs, higher tariffs, but there is a pause of 90 days. We have to see what happens after 90 days.
Dhruv Bhatia
Understood. Thank you.
Sunil Chordia
The statement is directly, is not affected. Indirectly, our end-customer will have some impact, which may affect us after 90 days.
Dhruv Bhatia
Understood. Thank you so much, sir.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Vargav from Ambit Capital. Please go-ahead.
Bhargav Buddhadev
Yeah, good afternoon, sir, and congratulations on a good recovery.
Sunil Chordia
Yeah, yeah, Bargav. Yes.
Bhargav Buddhadev
Sir, is it fair to say that this volume ramp-up from Chennai will be gradual. So maybe in the first-half, you will do about 6,000, 7,000 and second-half you do 12,000. Is that the way we should look at it?
Sunil Chordia
Yeah, yeah, it will be like that only.
Bhargav Buddhadev
Secondly, sir, you mentioned there will be exports from Chennai. So has the approvals come in now for these exports or because they will be able to a or any other foreign player, right?
Sunil Chordia
No, these products will not go to — the exports from Chennai will not go to three stones of the, okay. They don’t approve a new facility so easily. These were customers Who don’t mind shifting to another source, okay? And because as I told you, we see more orders coming in, especially from Europe, from US. We got approval to supply from Chennai. This approval came in quickly in two, three months time. Yeah.
Bhargav Buddhadev
So this shift
Yashovardhan Chordia
Mr — yes, Bhagrav, there is also a strategic shift of our existing customers from Thailand. So we see now that with coming on-board, we see a freight advantage, we see a logistics lead-time advantage. So it’s purely it’s not a new approval or a new supplier approval. It’s kind of a new plant approval of the existing suppliers. So in the Southeast Asian market, things have happened closer than expected.
Bhargav Buddhadev
That frees up the Thailand capacity to Europe and US.
Yashovardhan Chordia
So yes, that frees up, yes. So strategically, we set at a better cost from Chilnai and then Thailand should aim at supplying to premium customers.
Bhargav Buddhadev
And sir, you also mentioned that there is this increase in duty on Chinese to US. So is there a case that they route it to some other country and bypass that duty or do you think that is not a possibility?
Yashovardhan Chordia
And suddenly that it should not be a possibility definitely long-term if Chinese decide to put up tire factories in some other country, that can happen. But definitely if that’s one risk that can create some disruption in the local market in Thailand is the duties come in play after 90 days
Bhargav Buddhadev
And you don’t see any risk to margins in Thailand market where you are selling from a Thailand because of the Chinese dumping —
Yashovardhan Chordia
See, I can’t say that risk is not there. I think that risk is — no, but that risk.
Sunil Chordia
We are surviving risk. Yeah, although it currently we are competing with highly Chinese supplies in Thailand and you know they are selling at a very low-price. So wherever we have to compete with Chinese and we get some contribution, we are doing that, okay.
Bhargav Buddhadev
And lastly, sir, of course, steel way we were thinking, it’s right now in the, right?
Sunil Chordia
I mean, I mean there is no development to be discussed right now. I’m not in a position to say anything confirmatory at this point of time. We continue to look for a partner. Yeah.
Bhargav Buddhadev
Yeah, and we are enough on the plate to basically
Pranay Jain
And we have enough on the plate, 15% 20% growth, I think without stressing or stretching the financials and without leveraging the balance sheet is a good growth. We don’t want to be going faster than this, honestly. Yeah.
Bhargav Buddhadev
And this new business in which we are entering that I believe wire op is also 1 million ton market, right? So it’s not a small market.
Pranay Jain
Wire rope is a big market, big market. There are a number of small players. There are two, three big players. Martin is the is the company for many, many years, okay and we have to learn a lot from them. We also have to make right quality. But I don’t think it is as difficult as making, okay. It should be a little faster than that. And the customer profile is available where we can start selling immediately, yeah, and then move-up on the value chain. Yeah.
Bhargav Buddhadev
And if we get good success in this 10,000 ton product to expand it to say 40,000 50,000 tonnes where will we prepare the machinery from or is there a —
Yashovardhan Chordia
[Foreign Speech], yet one old factory we could buy, okay, which is in very good condition. So without doing much of calculation and watch we decided to quickly get into it. But if we do a bigger project, we do all the calculations make machines or import machines that will be at least two, three years from now. Already, four years.
Bhargav Buddhadev
[Foreign Speech]
Yashovardhan Chordia
[Foreign Speech] By that time, our management capabilities should also improve to manage one more location. Yeah..
Bhargav Buddhadev
Hey, great, sir, [Foreign Speech].
Yashovardhan Chordia
You are you are one of the very worried investors last-time.
Bhargav Buddhadev
Thank you.
Yashovardhan Chordia
Yeah.
Operator
Thank you.
Sunil Chordia
I think it’s time five o’clock yeah
Pranay Jain
So you want to take questions or should we
Operator
Dalesh yeah, we can —
Sailesh Raja
Yeah, hello, sir, we can close the hit.
Sunil Chordia
Okay.
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, that would be the last question for today. And I now hand the conference over to Mr Raja from B&K Securities for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Sailesh Raja
Thank you. Yeah, thank you all for attending this session. We especially thank the team for their time., would you like to make any closing comments?
Sunil Chordia
Yeah. So I think my opening comments and closing comments will remain the same and I would thank all my investors and shareholders for continuing to have beliefs and faith in. And I can assure you from the management side that we’ll continue to work hard and build-up this company and take the business to newer heights. Our tagline for businesses outperform and definitely the coming years will outperform the last year. So thank you so much.
Sailesh Raja
Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you, sir. On behalf of B&K Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.
Yashovardhan Chordia
Thank you, sir.