Rainbow Children’s Medicare Ltd (NSE: RAINBOW) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 26, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Rahul Jiwani — Moderator
Saurabh Bhandari — Investor Relations
Vikas Maheshwari — Chief Financial Officer
Ramesh Kancharla — Chairman and Managing Director
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Mahesh Atal — Analyst
Damayanti Kerai — Analyst
Alankar Garude — Analyst
Rahul Jeewani — Analyst
Manik Gautam — Analyst
Nitesh Dutt — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ram, it’s. Sam. Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4FY25 earnings conference call of Rainbow Children’s Medical Limited hosted by IIFL Capital. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rahul Jiwani from IIFL Capital. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Rahul Jiwani — Moderator
Hi. Good morning everyone. I welcome you all to the fourth quarter earnings conference call of Rainbow Hospitals hosted by IFL Capital. From Rainbow, we have with us today Dr. Ramesh Kancharla, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Vikas Maheshwari Group CFO and Mr. Sourabh Bhandari, Head Investor Relations and Group Business Analyst. Over to you sir, for your opening comments.
Ramesh Kancharla — Chairman and Managing Director
Thank you, Rahul. Good morning everyone. It’s a pleasure to speak with you all today as we discuss the performance for the fourth quarter and the financial year 2425. It’s been a transformative year for the Rainbow, marked by operational milestones and continued focus on delivering high quality pediatric and perinatal care. As I reflect on the fourth quarter and the year gone by, I’m pleased to report that we have made significant progress across several areas. Here are some of the key highlights. On the operational front, performance for the fourth quarter was modest compared to the strong second and third quarters of the year.
We have witnessed an unusually quiet season. Approximately about 35% of our business, which includes pediatrics, outpatient department and pediatric admissions and the pediatric intensive care remained low during this period. However, we did see a strong performance in certain segments of our business particularly in the pediatric surgery, pediatric, multispeciality care and obstetrics. All the new beds added during the last year have been seamlessly integrated into the Rainbow Network and performing well. This is visible from the performance of our new units for the quarter and full year. I’m pleased to share that we have performed the first pediatric liver transplantation successfully in our Chamay Hub Hospital.
Additionally, we’ve secured a liver transplant license for Bengaluru Hubs. A step forward in our efforts to build Chennai and Bangalore as a tertiary care hubs quarterly care hubs. It gives me immense pride to share the Rainbow Habs recognized with the prestigious accolades as follows. We were honored to receive the great place to work with our 90% score award. For the fifth time we’ve got a great Place to Work award. Empowering is a testament to our ongoing efforts to build a culture where our people feel valued, empowered and inspired. We are proud to be recognized as an amazing workplace for excellence in people’s practices and received the Best Place to Work for Women awarded by the Economic Times.
Further, the new SNCC recognized Rainbow as the best pediatric and women’s hospital for the year. Our fertility business, our Fertility center at Kondapur, Hyderabad received a reaccreditation of JCI which is a Joint Commission International. With this, Rainbow continues to have three JCI accredited hospitals in the network and also 13 NABH hospitals in its network. Our IVF services have shown good progress reinforcing the potential as a key growth driver for future Butterfly Essential is an initiative to offer a comprehensive range of baby and woman care products through the retail stores format has done well recently we have launched pilot testing to offer the products on online as well.
We are still encountering challenges in our international business, particularly in countries like Bangladesh, Oman, Kenya and Sudan where there has been a significant reduction in the issuance of healthcare permits for patients seeking medical travel. For the year the international business revenue was 30.7 crore as against 44 crores last year. We continue to prioritize cost management, actively seeking opportunities to optimize expenses. This disciplined approach is crucial as the new hospital beds comes into the operations to maintain profitability. Now building on to the Numbers for the Q4FY25, our revenue registered a growth of 8.5% amounting to 370.1 crore.
Similarly, our EBITDA increased by 8.7% reaching to 114.7 crore while PAT registering the growth of 10.7% to 56.5 crores. Our overall occupancy rate for the quarter was 46.5 with mature hospitals achieving 52.2% occupancy and new hospitals recording 35.6 occupancy rates. Let me share some updates on the key projects. Regional hub hospital in regimentary inauguration of 100 beds the final stages of conclusion and it’s expected to commence operations by end of the Q1FY26. The two new SPOK hospitals in Bengaluru one is the Electronic City of 90 beds and enur the 60 beds. The operations are likely to commence towards the end of the Q2 FY26.
The project work commenced at the Regional hospital Coimbatore of 130 beds and is expected to take another 20 to 24 months. We performed Bhumi Kuja which is ground baking at both the land parcels in Sector 44 and 56 in Gurgaon in the last week of April. The project work is in full swing in both the sides. In addition to growth plans, I would like to highlight some key achievements that reflect our commitment to delivering high quality pediatric and perinatal care. Let me share a couple of examples. A desperate couple of couple traveled all the way from Myanmar hoping to fulfill their dreams of having a baby.
After several attempts of fertility treatments in Myanmar, they were quite happy and excited when they received the IVF successfully in Chennai and the pregnancy was progressing fairly smoothly. The jive was soon met with challenge where mother went into premature delivery delivering a 472 grams baby and the baby came out with very feeble signs of life. Our neonatology team, fully prepared with the advanced northeast and the transport systems and resuscitation systems, received the baby immediately and began life saving. We knew how much this child meant for these parents. Spending a lot of time in Chennai, the newborn went through full range of problems of prematurity with extreme low weight, being on respiratory more than three months time, various cycles of infections, gut problems and requiring a total parent remnants.
So thanks to the 24×7 dedication of our neonatal team and unwavering trust and prayers of the parents, this tiny fighter made a remarkable Recovery. Now at 6 months of age the baby is thriving well with a healthy brain, healthy gut and a healthy lungs and is expected to have normal neurodevelopment milestones. This incredible journey is a reminder to all of us, as we always say, that it takes a lot to treat the little. In another case when the two rare conditions have met together in one child made very complicated to diagnose. A five year old child who had come to the Ambushman’s hospital with the signs and symptoms of intestinal obstruction.
On evaluation there was no signs of obstruction but was settled with medical management. This child kept coming back to the hospital with what we call intestinal obstructions with bilious vomiting and constipation. So we discovered that the baby had severe constipation and the colon is not moving at all. This particular condition is kind of what we call the intestinal motility disorder which is very very rare. So we also found that child had unusually high blood pressures. This prompted us to investigate extensively including a PET scan. The PET scan revealed there’s a mark behind the chest in the midstenum which was subsequently removed and tested histopathologically showed undifferentiated neuroblastoma.
Our oncology team believes that outcome of the baby is fairly good with the chemotherapy. The bowel issues are being addressed now. These cases underscore the critical role of multidisciplinary approach in managing tertiary and coronary care patients which is key to achieve better outcomes. With that, I will now pass the MIC to our group CFO, Mr. Vikas Maheshwari to take you through the financial update. Thank you once again for joining us today. We look forward to your questions and insights as we move forward. Thank you.
Vikas Maheshwari — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you sir. A very good morning to all of you and thanks for attending this investors conference call. I am pleased to brief you on the financial performance and key developments of Rainbow Children’s for the fourth quarter and for the full year. FY24 25 Our operating revenue for the quarter stood at Rupees 370.1 crore, reflecting a growth of 8.5% when compared to the corresponding quarter of the previous financial year. For the full year our revenue stood at rupees 1515.9 crores, reflecting a growth of 16.9% when compared to the previous financial year. Our EBITDA for the quarter stood at rupees 114.7 crores, marking an 8.7% growth compared to the same period last year.
For full year our EBITDA stood at rupees 489.9 crore, reflecting a growth of 14.2% when compared to the previous financial year. Our EBITDA margin for the current quarter is 31% while for the full year our EBITDA margin is 32.3%. The profit after tax for the quarter is 56.5 crores, marking a growth of 10.7% in comparison to the corresponding quarter of the last financial year. For the full year our PAT stood at rupees 244 crore, reflecting a growth of 11.9% when compared to the previous financial year. The main highlight for the year is that our cash generation from the operation for the full year remains very, very robust.
Cash generation from the operations was 481.2 crore versus EBITDA of 489.8 crore, resulting in 90% conversion into that cash generation from the operations. In terms of operational performance, outpatient and inpatient volumes witnessed a growth of 3% and 4% respectively when compared to the corresponding quarter in the last financial year. Deliveries grew by 6% compared to the corresponding period of last year. For the full year, outpatient, inpatient and delivery volume witnessed a robust growth of 12%, 12% and 10% respectively when compared to the last financial year. Our payer mix continue to remain robust and balanced with 52.9% of the revenue coming from the insurance and the balance 47.1% coming from the cash patients.
For full year the payer mix stands at 48% cash and 52% insurance. I am pleased to inform that our company’s balance sheet remains very robust with cash positions of close to 700 crore rupees as of 03-31-2025 and will support our ongoing capital expenditure plan. Given our current cash and anticipated internal accruals in the coming years, we remain confident in our ability to complete all planet capital expenditures through internal accruals without any debt financing during the quarter. The company has invested approximately 43.7 Cr in the capital expenditure for the full year. The capex is 145.7 crore.
With these insights I conclude my financial updates. I now invite questions and suggestions from the participants. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Mahesh Atal from ATAL Investment Advisors. Please go ahead.
Mahesh Atal
Good morning sir. My first question is more on how many vets are going to mature in the FY26 out of our new hospitals? How much would be shifted to our mature hospital space and how much new would be added to the new hospitals. That is what my first question would be.
Saurabh Bhandari
So good morning. There are two hospitals which would basically move from the new hospital category to matured hospital which is one is the Children Heart Institute and the second is the Rose Walk hospital. And the number of beds which will basically move is 100 beds of Rainbow Children’s Hospital, Heart Institute and 24 beds of Rose Walk. So total 124 beds will move from new to matured category by end of this year.
Mahesh Atal
How many new would be added to the new?
Ramesh Kancharla
About 250 beds are going to be added to the new beds which is so there is about 150 in Bangalore. The two spokes plus Rajmandary of regional spoke is about 250 are going to add to the network which makes it a new pet system.
Mahesh Atal
Okay, fair enough. My second question would be more on. We could see that you are. I mean I am not. I am failing to understand this. We have actually our new hospitals have come up, the new beds have come up. But our one is that ARPOD is down in the new hospital space and but the occupancy is quite good. So what is that? You know we are doing. We like. We’re like trying to focus more on occupancy levels right now so that you know what is the strategy for the new hospital going in FY26? How do we increase the ARP to the mature? The hospital thing.
Ramesh Kancharla
The RPAP comes over a period of time whenever there’s a new hospital, a new geography or micro market one is that insurance will take some time. Your thorax is going to be kind of a little more attractive to attract the more patients to your hospital. So this is a very common practice for every hospital. So as the kind of hospitals the occupancy is picking up, incidents are all boarded. Then the second, third year the pricing power increases. So that’s very natural for most of the new hospitals across the industry.
Mahesh Atal
All right. Is there any change in the insurance rate that you have taken?
Ramesh Kancharla
I think there is a once in two years supposed to be kind of all the renewals happens sometimes it can be longer also. So so they periodically as kind of they have come in the various stages each year some other clusters will come into the. We negotiate and do it Nowadays what we have been doing is kind of group level. We do it kind of a Bangalore cluster, Hyderabad cluster and Chennai cluster. Chennai was done last year and the Bangalore is due now and Alpo Hyderabad is going to be done now.
Mahesh Atal
Now yes.
Ramesh Kancharla
Delhi.
Mahesh Atal
Is any guidance you would like to give on the broader margins for the FY26.
Ramesh Kancharla
As we kind of growing franchise like this like last year if you may recall that. So what we have always done is about pre in These EBITDA about 25% EBITDA which is something which is always guided based on our operations and also our ability to drive the. Whenever you have a kind of a significant number of bets are added. There may be a kind of a half to a percentage of EBITDA pressure may be there but that’s what is temporary. If you look at last year exactly the guidance of that this is the likely growth of late teens and 25% of pre index EBITDA and the margin is probably about 1% is exactly what turned out to be after adding 270 beds. So we had about a 0.9% of margin pressure compared to the previous year.
Vikas Maheshwari
Just to add what Dr. Ramesh has just told is that what he is trying to say in the previous calls also he’s guided that whatever the bets we are adding there will be definitely some pressure. But there will be threshold limits where we always foresee that our EBITDA margin 3 index will be 25%. Happy to say that. You know for the FY25 though we added a 280 bets last year our EBITDA margin got saved up by 0.9%. So it stands at 26.6% and post India 32.3%. Again there was a 0.8% save off. As we are entering this year again we are adding bears.
Obviously there will be some pressure of the cost from the new units but may get partially set off from the new units which we have opened that will get set off. But it is safe to assume as Dr. Ramesh CMD is guiding that the minimum of 25% EBITDA is. What is the minimum? We will try to do better as we have done this year at 26.6%.
Mahesh Atal
Do you foresee any competition coming in your main spoke? I mean main Hyderabad market?
Ramesh Kancharla
There’s always been a competition for the last 15 years time and you know city is growing and also population is growing. The more new hospitals are coming up. That’s the natural history.
Mahesh Atal
Sorry to interrupt you sir. Any inorganic thing that you are looking at in Hyderabad?
Ramesh Kancharla
In Hyderabad? No. Very unlikely. Because we don’t need to do in organic Hyderabad because if something opportunity is there we also could do it. That’s probably more efficient than for an organic. Fair enough sir. And all the best. Thank you.
Mahesh Atal
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Before we take the next question we would like to remind the participants to press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Anshula Garwal from MK Global. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi. Good morning gentlemen. I hope I’m audible.
Ramesh Kancharla
Yes, fine. Thank you.
Unidentified Participant
So first question is on the mature portfolio. Any comment on this performance? Have occupancies been weak in a certain cluster or is it across clusters?
Ramesh Kancharla
Yeah.
Vikas Maheshwari
Occupancy for the mature hospitals, whatever we have listed has been slightly muted as told in the opening remarks. Right. You know the pediatrics was slightly muted in this March quarter. Other side. This mother care and other things was good. And Anshul, what we have always guided, you know is if you look at our three year CAGR or the five year CAGR has been very very robust at 16%. Right. And in three years or five years when we are taking the 16% growth. It has been you know, 12 quarter or 20 quarters. How do you see there has been one or two quarters or three quarters where you know, performance has not been good or subdued than the market expectations. But that is where we you know always catch up as a management. If you look at the long term horizon of three years and five years, so obviously it may be a subdued. It doesn’t show something that you know, it is something we have to worry about or it is something that you know is a long term growth plan coming into the some cloud that is not the way.
It is a one off. And as the June quarter is progressing we hope things will settle down and it will catch up to our long term trajectory of 15, 16% growth. This year is going to be very, very busy in the next six months as we have outlined in our presentations. It’s a lot of capacity is getting added. We are adding 250 beds starting with our Rajmandri Hennuran Electronic City Hospital. So it is going to be very busy which will, you know further laid our foundations for the growth for the coming quarters.
Unidentified Participant
Just to follow up on this. So are we saying our mature portfolio should also clock say around about mid teens growth going forward considering this is just a one off kind of quarter?
Ramesh Kancharla
I think the mature hospitals usually kind of when they do with the pricing power in those things about 8 to 10% growth, they will deliver excellent results. That’s what we always see it. So for example places like Hyderabad that you know your 8 to 10% growth is fantastic, we will deliver extreme results because they are kind of mature. To extend most of the hospitals in Hyderabad to occupancy stocking about its own percentage. So still there’s room and scope and also always the mature clusters will have tidal power also. So the combination of things which we need to look at in the mature hospitals and also the case mix change also happens in the mature hospitals. These are all the combinations.
Unidentified Participant
Great, thank you for that deeper answer. My second question is sir, out of the new image that we have commissioned in Q4 last year, could you quantify the drag in margins from these new units in FY25 and the ones in Hyderabad broken again?
Vikas Maheshwari
Yeah. So I’m sure the Hyderabad is broken even as for the guidelines which we say is a one year for us and then 15 or 18 months depending upon the cluster of Bangalore, Chennai, we are on the same trajectory. There is no change on that. Is that around for the three years the drag was at around 12 to 13 crore rupees for the full year.
Unidentified Participant
From all the hospitals. Right.
Vikas Maheshwari
For the three hospitals which opened last year one each at clubs of Hyderabad, Bangalore and Chennai the 12 to 13 crore rupees was the track.
Unidentified Participant
Got it. And so any guide guidance on the Gurgaon project commissioning timeline. I I heard your comment, your opening remarks but any definitive guideline of whether it should open an F by FY28 end?
Ramesh Kancharla
Yeah I think I see originally we kind of some time ago we guided about calendar year of 27 will probably kind of a second half of the year is the likely likely this one maybe plus or minus 2323 months. So we have taken some initiative steps to kind of speed up the project because we are taking hybrid way of construction with the column steel column structures. So we are trying to do all the possible things to kind of get the structure done quickly. So once the structure is done from there probably about one year two months to get the things.
So we are on job. We are on job. We are trying to see that how we can get it done in next two years and two years three months. This is zero related. 26 to 28 months is time. We are looking at it now. This is what our project team is promising Unless there is any any other head which comes in between.
Unidentified Participant
Just one last question. If I miss if I can squeeze that in. So for the next three years what would be our capex plan? Sir, Would it be on par with what we had guided last quarter? Around 650 odd crores in the next. 3 years
Vikas Maheshwari
there is more or less remain same. There is no change on that the same timelines.
Unidentified Participant
That’s it for my and thank you so much. All the very best.
Ramesh Kancharla
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one now the next question is from the line of Damayanti Krai from hsbc. Please go ahead.
Damayanti Kerai
Hi, good morning and thank you for the opportunity. Just want to understand for the upcoming unit at Rajmandi and two units in Bangalore. Have you started doctor recruitment etc?
Ramesh Kancharla
Yes, yeah we have actually yeah we have done for argumentary almost kind of a near closure without procurements and Bangalore. Yes we are are on the job.
Damayanti Kerai
Okay so for all the three units it’s underway and Rajmandi as you mentioned. It’S broadly completed,
Ramesh Kancharla
almost closed and also we have kind of recruited almost about 70 plus doctors to the network in the last one year and the various specialties and surgeons and various other you know subspecialties.
Damayanti Kerai
Okay, that’s 70 new editions where across. The network not Specific to
Ramesh Kancharla
Hyderabad, Bangalore, Chennai and Delhi.
Damayanti Kerai
Okay, that’s helpful. And my second question is on your two recent initiatives. If you can update us on the Child Development center and the IBM business. How how these two units are picking up and where do you see these scaling up in next three years or so?
Ramesh Kancharla
Yeah, center is something which can take its own time. We are trying to kind of build a SOP based kind of overall the cave and we’re looking for more development pediatricians. Then this is a service which we are actually trying to see that how do we cost. How do we kind of very price sensitive also because of the long term care, not a short term care. So we have kind of been little slow on that. Just we don’t want see that. How to address the community. How to address the community. This burden of developmental issues and other behavioral issues.
So we are trying to get some doctors also. One of the things is that the number of doctors trained in this area are very very few. We got new doctors now we are looking for two more doctors to act. I think that’s what is going to kind of change this one. It would take a little bit of time in terms of revenues. I will do things. My interest is to see that how do we build a kind of high quality developmental service to address these children. And as we move forward, I think it’s probably in the next six months time I’ll be able to kind of give you better projections of the CDC.
Damayanti Kerai
Okay. And on the IVF business.
Vikas Maheshwari
Yes, IVF business did very well. And right now it is 12 or 13 of the hospital. Our IVF is functioning and is growing for the year on year growth since because of the low base it is very, very strong. It is more than 70% or close to 70% growth on the IVF revenue. As far as the percentage total revenue it is still remain low, but it is moving upward. You know, it’s roughly at around close to 2.9% of the total overall revenue is the ideal is contributing.
Damayanti Kerai
Okay. So right now like under 3% of your total revenue. But it’s growing obviously much faster. Okay. And my last question is on your RPOB trajectory. So earlier we talked about like somewhere in high single digit growth. So will that continue?
Vikas Maheshwari
Yeah, that continues. Seventhi and also you know in the various investors calls in the meetings what we have guided because in what happens is that there is a one component of allos which you know it’s may change because of the various reasons. Right. So what we are guiding that what we should look at what is The ARPP growth basically. And for the IP RPP growth, if you look at, you know, year on year or the quarter on quarter, year on year comparison basis, you’ll find there isn’t always a growth in IP arpp. And for the last three years we have seen, you know, the consistent growth in the arpp.
So for the full year the ARPP growth was something like that, 5.6%. I think that will be the right metrics to see that one. If you look at the full year RPOB, you know it’s 3.4% down but ARPP is up by 5.6%. I think that is the right way of looking at. Because the ALLOC is nobody’s control. You know, it’s more of operational driven and the case driven.
Damayanti Kerai
Okay, okay, that’s helpful. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Participants may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Alankar Garude from Kotak Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Alankar Garude
Hi, good morning everyone. So you mentioned 2.9% contribution from fertility in FY25. Similarly, can you comment on the broad sales split between pediatrics and maternity and fertility for the quarter.
Vikas Maheshwari
So the overall, the broader percentage, Alankar has not changed. So roughly 30% of our business comes from the mother care related business and the 70% comes from the pediatrics. So if I am saying mother care 30%, that includes IVF also.
Alankar Garude
But you mentioned about mother care doing well in this quarter. So just trying to understand from a fiscal standpoint and specifically for the fourth quarter standpoint, what was the contribution of pediatrics for us?
Vikas Maheshwari
So as a percentage, Alanka, that is what I am saying. You know the. For the quarter the fertility, fertility business was roughly 32%. But overall, you know, if you see the for the full year it will come to the main reversal of 30, 30%.
Alankar Garude
Okay, so basically a few percentage points.
Vikas Maheshwari
Here and okay, plus minus here because both the facilities are growing. Right,
Alankar Garude
got it. So the question then is, I mean if we assume that over the next three, five years the share of fertility and maternity inches of further, should we expect the seasonality in the business coming from pediatrics to gradually reduce over the years?
Vikas Maheshwari
It should, theoretically, yes. But you know our focus in growing the pediatrics also because if you have gone through our. We are adding the super specialty project in our another hub which is Bangalore and Chennai where we have started the transplant programs, etc. So as those programs start in other hospitals, the pediatrics business will also start moving up actually on the value chain. So the focus is not that we need the pediatrics here, the focus is equally to grow that business also.
Ramesh Kancharla
Mr. Langar, I’m sitting here. So pediatrics is our main faulty. That doesn’t mean that we have no less focus on obstetrics. So our drive on focus is a lot more on pediatrics. So we are the organization which is kind of. We always believe that we are the people to solve pediatric health care for the country. And obstetrics is a part of the pediatrics. We always say that adult childhood is one large 40. So obstetrics comes along with the pediatrics. Which is why we don’t talk so much about the advancing the gynecological side. Gynecology. I’m going on because too much in gynecology, it’s more of a perinatal site.
We are interested, of course you do need to have some gynecology because when you have a network patient, they require some surgical issues. We need to address that. So we’ve been always been very clear in our positioning of where the children multispecialty children’s hospital and the perinatal services are the part of the children’s hospitals. Unlike other people, we have absolute clarity of what we are trying to do, what we are going to do for future.
Alankar Garude
Got it, sir. The second question is we saw 3% decline in RPOB in FY25. How should we look at RPOB growth in FY26 and maybe a second one related to fertility itself. Does fertility have a positive impact on rpob?
Vikas Maheshwari
Yes, it makes, you know, very small business. Right. Is a growing business for sure. It’s a smaller piece. But you know, as we have told in the previous questions, you know, asked by the mnt now RPOC has multiple factors and sometimes it will not be in control of the company because of the operational related issues or the case. What type of case is running at the hospital? Hospital? I think the ARPP growth if you look at, I think that is the right matrix for the full year. If you look at, you will feel, you know, the RPOC has come down by 3.4% but ARPP if you look at is gone up by 5.6% which is the purely as a function of air loss which has gone up in this full year by 7.7%.
So I think the focus should be on the ARP which is the true reflection. Air loss is important. Obviously it is important. But for the time being, I think remaining focus on ARPP is important to judge our performance.
Alankar Garude
Understood, Sir. So broadly 5, 6% number on ERPP should, should be something which we can pencil in.
Vikas Maheshwari
Yeah, yeah. Yes.
Ramesh Kancharla
Then RPAP will go up.
Vikas Maheshwari
Yeah,
Alankar Garude
got it. And one final thing sir, one request from our end. Now that we have 19 hospitals and a sizable number across Hyderabad, Bangalore, Chennai. We have couple in ap. There’s Raja Mandi also coming up. Can we please start sharing cluster wise details Would be really helpful if we can get some of those details to understand the numbers better. So yeah, that’s it from my side. Thank you.
Ramesh Kancharla
We’ll try and give you what are the best at the end of the day for us to see that what our annual growth of archegraph4.5 matrix and these are. The question is that Hyderabad is matured story of Bangalore is evolving and going up and Chennai is kind of a fairly recent. When you try to compare Apple to one to other it’s going to be huge difference. We try to work around on that and you know, so this is, I mean when you give those things it’s not going to be kind of very legitimate also to kind of conclude on any of those things.
So let’s allow us for probably a year or so so that we love kind of a better understanding of how it works. Perhaps we are the only kind of a proper hub and stroke hospital the country which works in a very simple. Which works in a model. So I mean I will kind of let me work on this and come back to you on this. Okay. Otherwise I will lose my hair completely.
Alankar Garude
Sure sir. Thank you.
Ramesh Kancharla
Thank you.
Vikas Maheshwari
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Before we take the next question we would like to remind the participants to best star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Rahul Giovani from IFL Capital. Please go ahead.
Rahul Jeewani
Yeah. Hi sir. Of the four new hospitals which we have opened since fourth quarter of fiscal 24, you said that the Hyderabad hospitals have achieved break even. So can you also talk about the Chennai and the Bangalore hospitals which were opened up in let’s say last year.
Ramesh Kancharla
Bangalore is a frail kind of doing very well not very far from the channel. It will take its little longer time because it is hospital and also getting a doctor teams in Chennai always takes some time. So. And overall this year probably kind of as a combined all spreads to together we hoping that we’ll do the kind of a neutral, neutral outcome positive.
Rahul Jeewani
Okay so. So sir, this 1213 crore loss which you had from these hospitals in FY25 that will let’s say at a combined level will be neutral in going into 26 exactly. And while you pointed out that the margins would let’s say moderate by 50 to 100 basis points depending on the capacity expans but given that in FY26 and in FY25 we already had this base of 1213 crore hitting the EBITDA which would let’s say get to a neutral position this year. So FY26, is it there a possibility that FY26 margins would broadly be similar to FY25 margins?
Ramesh Kancharla
I think so, yeah. Well, expanding I think this is what you know, see when you give a guidance I don’t want to go kind of completely haywire. So we have always been, if you go back and see our commentary we believe and say that we try to do, you know, bigger than 25% 3 indies but the pre inde 25 is something, a benchmark which we have kept it. I mean that’s where it is. We feel that now, you know is something is not really right in the rainbow and I mean we would always try to achieve 26 or 26.53 in days.
That’s the ambition which I think most of the time we’re fulfilling. So I mean going forward for a year also this is what it is now with a number of bets being there and what important for me is the growth and a lot of bets are there in the maturing stock stage and great operational drive and health marketing drive and we had significant number of doctors, about 60, 70 doctors in network this year and three more hospitals opening up. If I can do a kind of a growth of 20% or not 20% so that will solve all the problems. Whatever it is, it’s not going to kind of leave any numbers which are kind of a lag behind.
Rahul Jeewani
Sure sir. And sir, since you pointed out that obviously our business has some seasonality can you also talk about let’s say that how are we looking at the growth of the business from a next three year perspective before the two Delhi hospitals get commissioned.
Ramesh Kancharla
So let’s look at this broadly. I mean see the seasonalities always will be jst when we look at we are medical hospital we are not a surgical hospital. Our medical is about 75, 80% surgical is 20% we are not a wear and tear hospital. We are more of an emergency based community driven and an emergency driven and seasons always play out positively and negatively. So this is how the children’s hospitals worldwide but at the same time we build our resilience and also the we are increasing large forces by adding more specialties and Pediatric super specialties, intensive care services and also quarternary care.
That’s a long term story quarterly care. So as we mature more and more to an extent we’ll start behaving more like a towards like a multi specialty hospital, multi specialty hospital. But it would never be like this will be like multiple specialty where there’s a lot of businesses coming as a kind of a prefix like cardiac orthopedics, urology, neurosurgery and those things. Which is why your R pops also keeps changing with us because basis on the tickets the same ICU ticketing can be low in one year high end next year. So newborn ticketing can be low one year high next year.
So there will be kind of a. When you look at the CAGR of 3 years or 5 years I can assure you that we are growing as much as any other hospital or better than other peers. So this is what we always kind of urgently request our analysts and investors to see that look at the CAGR rather than looking at the quarter and quarter. That is what my things I was looking at what is the cagrade for the last three years time is about 16% and CAGR for five years time is about 16%. So there will be a kind of odd one or two quarters. There will be kind of a superlative quarters, one or two quarters. So this is how. But eventually you get kind of a set off. This is overall to give you the comprehensive picture.
Rahul Jeewani
Sure sir. So a mid teens kind of a revenue CAGR is what we should expect going forward as well.
Ramesh Kancharla
I would expect it to be kind of late teens to 20.
Rahul Jeewani
Okay, sure sir. And obviously our cash generation has been very good and we have 700 crore of cash lying on the boats. We were also evaluating inorganic opportunities in some of the markets. So can you update us in terms of how some of those M and A discussions have been ongoing?
Ramesh Kancharla
For sure, we are working on that. I think maybe kind of we will come back to you very soon that degree more updates on them and AIDS is a bit premature for me to talk about them.
Rahul Jeewani
Okay sir. Okay. And sir, one last question from my end. Within your core Hyderabad market some of your peers have also announced standalone dedicated pediatric hospitals. So some of your peers are now putting up dedicated blocks within their multi specialty hospitals for pediatrics. So how do you see the competitive intensity let’s say in your two core markets of Hyderabad and Bangalore and do you face any challenges in terms of onboarding Dr. Talent for let’s say the spokes which you are adding in these markets?
Ramesh Kancharla
We like to see that when they come actually. So it’s too early to say that. We have seen this positioning and also a couple of large specialties have done it in the past. A couple of large credible hospitals in Hyderabad and I don’t think you know they’ve done very well. And see basically it’s not something any rights of proprietorship or anything. Essentially if someone has gotten so much of patience to see that how to build a children’s hospital and I’ve got energies and patience to do that and it will be successful otherwise this is going to be difficult.
So this is how it is. You’ve been asking me. We have standard course on the balance sheet. I can do a thousand bets but would I do thousand bets? No, it’s not possible. Is it impossible to do a thousand bets and make it operational? See if I was a multi specialty player I would have definitely thought of object to about finite beds. So there’s a huge difference in how you build a multispecial hospital and how you build a, you know, pediatric hospital which are very community inclusive and, and, and also kind of a very emergency based.
Rahul Jeewani
Sure sir. So, so, so and just to follow up to that. So so in the core Hyderabad market what is the potential to add more beds let’s say over the next three year period? So in the past we have indicated that Bangalore market could potentially mirror the number of beds which we have in Hyderabad over a period of time. But within Hyderabad, let’s say do you see opportunities to further add capacities over the next three year period or are we sufficiently covered in Hyderabad?
Ramesh Kancharla
Soon we have opportunity to do some more bets in Hyderabad and I think probably we are exploring some opportunities. Definitely we will do some more by science.
Rahul Jeewani
Okay sir. Thank you. That’s it from my team. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Participants may press star and one at this time to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Manik from Fin Doc Investment. Please go ahead.
Manik Gautam
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity that I’m pretty new to this company so can you please help me with the OPD revenue and volume for FY25.
Vikas Maheshwari
See it’s you know the way we look at the OPD revenue which includes of our consultation lab and radiology plus pharmacy is that around 30% of our revenue come from the OPD. And as far as the numbers of OP is concerned, roughly you know 14 lakh 26 thousand for the full year.
Manik Gautam
Okay.
Vikas Maheshwari
Answers your question.
Manik Gautam
Yeah, that answers my question. And how are we searching the growth in this segment? Is it somewhere linked to the Number of bids that we have or how will it be shaped going forward?
Vikas Maheshwari
As far as OP revenue, you are saying?
Manik Gautam
Yes. Yes.
Vikas Maheshwari
For overall revenue.
Manik Gautam
For OP revenue.
Vikas Maheshwari
OP revenue I think is the overall proportionate. You know, if you look at our last. We have seen the last few years number is more or less, you know that the remainder the same number plus minus 1%. So it will be get linked to overall revenue growth and the number should stack up with the same number of 30% plus minus 1% of the overall revenue.
Manik Gautam
Overall revenue, yes. Correct. Understood. Thanks a lot.
Vikas Maheshwari
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nitesh Dutt from Berman Capital. Please go ahead.
Nitesh Dutt
Hi. Thanks for your opportunity. One reconfirmation. An earlier Bachman had asked about Gurgaon timelines. I missed your response. Is it as per the schedule that you. Or any delays?
Ramesh Kancharla
Yeah, now we, we did mention the. When the calendary of 27 towards the kind of the last October, November that was. That was actually being guided in the past. We are now having started that we’re sticking to that. Unless you know, you know, we feel. So the way kind of we envisage should be done by them.
Nitesh Dutt
Is it for both the hospitals, October, November of 2017?
Ramesh Kancharla
Yes, more or less. A couple of months, plus or minus. I don’t think there’s going to be huge variability because there’s been field projects and also the teams work. Project teams and everyone works together in tandem.
Nitesh Dutt
Thank you.
Ramesh Kancharla
Thanks. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahul Giovani from IFL Capital. Please go ahead.
Rahul Jeewani
Yes, sir, Just a clarification. This IVF revenue which you called out as 2.9% of the revenue, was it for the quarter or for the full year?
Vikas Maheshwari
Okay, so for the full year, Rahul, it was 2.6%. For the quarter four it was 2.9%.
Rahul Jeewani
Okay, sure, sir. And when you are talking about this, you. So. So this is of the overall company revenue or the IPD revenue?
Vikas Maheshwari
Overall revenue.
Rahul Jeewani
Okay, sure. So sir, the IVF business has scaled up pretty well given that. Let’s say we started this business one and a half years or two years back and now this business has surpassed the international revenues which we are doing. So so what are your further plans in terms of trying to grow the IVF portfolio? So is IVF now available across all your 19 hospitals or there are still some hospitals where you don’t offer IVF services?
Ramesh Kancharla
I think wherever there’s a possibility kind of opportunities, we would like to kind of integrate IVF within the household within the facilities. So right now we are number 12, right, isn’t it?
Vikas Maheshwari
Yes.
Ramesh Kancharla
We may be kind of adding some more, but it’s not on my. It’s not on my top of hand at the moment. So the one of the things which we look at it is IVF as a. We do not want to go out of our campuses and do standalones too many. That is a call which we have taken because we wanted to have a complete control on the clinical side of ivf, which is. We believe in that is still a lot of ethical construct is very important. Also being a hospital, the children’s hospital and also the large maternity services.
We believe in organic growth. Organic growth and B2C rather than B2B. Absolutely. We are not looking at the B2B business in the segment. It’s difficult also B2B because very unlikely. An obstetrician referring to another obstetric hospital.
Rahul Jeewani
Okay, sure, sir. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one now. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Rahul Jiwani
Thank you for joining today’s conference call and for your thoughtful questions. Your continued support is instrumental in our strategic journey and we sincerely appreciate the time you all have invested in engaging with our business in the future directions. For any further information or clarification, you may please reach out to Mr. Swarab Bhandari at the email id being given in the presentations. Thank you very much.
Saurabh Bhandari
Thank you all.
Ramesh Kancharla
Thank you very much. Thank you.
operator
Thank you on behalf of IIFL Capital. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you.