R R Kabel Ltd (NSE: RRKABEL) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Jan. 29, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Shreegopal Kabra — Managing Director
Rajesh Jain — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Ronak Jain — Analyst
Praveen Sahay — Analyst
Rahul Agarwal — Analyst
Achal Lohade — Analyst
Natasha Jain — Analyst
Manoj Gori — Analyst
Shrinidhi Karlekar — Analyst
Naushad Chaudhary — Analyst
Rohan Vora — Analyst
Shivam Khadi — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q3 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call of RR Cable Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing the star then zero on your touchstone phone.
I now hand the conference over to Mr Ronag Jain from Orient Capital, the Investor Relations. Thank you, and over to you.
Ronak Jain — Analyst
Thank you, Steve. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Ara Carbal Limited, I extend a very warm welcome to all participants on Q3 FY ’24 earnings conference call of Ara Carbal Limited. Today on this call, we have Mr Srigopal Kabra sir, Managing Director and Mr Rajesh Jain, Chief Financial Officer.
Before we begin this call, I would like to give a short disclaimer. This call may contain some of the forward-looking statements, which are completely based upon our beliefs, opinions and expectations as of today. These statements are not guarantees for our future performance and involve unforeseen risks and uncertainties. With this, I hand over the call to Kabla, sir. Over to you, you, sir.
Shreegopal Kabra — Managing Director
Thank you. Good afternoon. On behalf of Limited, I extend a warm welcome to all participants. On our Q3 FY ’25 financial results conference call. I am joined today along with our CFO, Mr Rajesh Jain. Despite navigating through a challenging macro-environment — economic environment characterized by a slowdown in the economy, political transition and volatile commodity prices, we are pleased to announce our highest-ever revenue for the nine-month period FY ’25. This achievement is a testament to the strength of our business model and our ability to adapt to dynamic market conditions.
Our cable and wire segment demonstrated moderate volume growth of — on a Nine-Month FY ’25 basis, supported by steady demand and fundamentals especially in cable business. Additionally, our FMAG segment continued its impressive trajectory, delivering a robust revenue growth of approximately 25% during this period. This growth was driven by strong volume performance and improved product mix and leadership in key categories such as fans reinforcing our position as one of the fastest-growing players in this space. We remain committed to achieving breakeven in FMEG business by early FY ’26. Despite the uncertainty in the external environment, the demand for cables and wire remains resilient.
To capitalize on this demand, we continue to undertake several strategic initiatives, including capacity expansion, the introduction of high-margin products, new launches and the ongoing expansions of our distribution network. These initiatives are progressing as planned and are aligned with our long-term strategy to announce growth and profitability. Looking ahead, we are focused on achieving double-digit EBITDA margins in the coming years. Our efforts remain centered on strengthening our operational efficiencies, enhancing our product portfolio and delivering sustainable value to all stakeholders.
With that, I would like to hand over the call to our CFO, Mr Rajesh Jay, to take this discussion forward. Rajesh, over to you.
Rajesh Jain — Chief Financial Officer
Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us on this earnings call. As we reflect on Q3 FY ’25, I would like to share some insights into the factors influencing our performance and our outlook for the remaining of the fiscal year. India’s GDP growth moderated in Q2 FY ’25 compared to-Q1 and this declaration had varying impact across sectors. Moreover, the sector faced added pressure from copper price volatility, a key determinant of material costs. On the export front, the environment remained challenging during nine months FY ’25, the economic conditions, shipment delays and logistical disruption by geopolitical factors like the Red Sea crisis adversely affected export demand during the period. Despite this, the export revenues saw an increase of 11% Y-o-Y in Q3.
Additionally, we have been actively working on securing new certification to strengthen our position in global markets and ensure readiness for future opportunities. Domestically, despite slowdown in the economy, we have seen 6% growth Y-o-Y in Q3. Looking ahead, we anticipate a significant boost in infrastructure and housing activity driven by higher government spending, positioning us for a robust recovery in coming quarters.
Now talking on the financials and operating highlights of Q3 FY ’25, in Q3 FY ’25, revenue reached to INR1,782 crores, reflecting a 9.1% year-on-year growth. This performance was supported by growth in both wires and cables and MG segment. On a nine-month FY ’25 basis, revenue grew by approximate 12%, achieving our highest-ever revenue of INR5,400 crores compared to the same-period last year. Operating EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR11 crores, while profit-after-tax amounted to INR68.6 crores, the marginal reduction in EBITDA and PET was prelimly due to impact of volatile tile commodity prices in the first-half of FY ’25. However, this was a temporary phenomenon and sequential growth in margins indicated a stabilizing trend.
Segment-wise performance in the wire and cable business recorded a revenue of INR1,543 crores in Q3 FY ’25, up from INR1,433 crores in Q3 FY ’24, making a Y-o-Y growth of approx 8%. On a nine-month FY ’25 basis, the segment achieved a revenue of INR4,732 crores, a growth of approx 10% compared to INR4,306 crores in nine months FY ’24. Revenue growth was driven by improved realization along with a strong growth in business, the segment profit stood at 7%, although the same is lower Y-o-Y due to volatile metal prices, margins improved sequentially, reflecting our focus on cost management and operational efficiency.
In the export market, which contributed around 27% of our total revenue in Q3 FY ’25, resilience was evident despite some headwinds. Efforts to enhance our global presence have positioned us well to capitalize on future opportunities. Domestically, strong demand, especially in cable and ongoing strategic initiatives continue to support growth and we remain confident in achieving sustained progress as we move forward. Guidance, if we see about wire and cable, given the high volatility in copper prices during the first-half of FY ’25 and the subsequent softening observed in recent months, we are gradually getting back on-track. The improved stability in commodity prices have provided some relief and we are optimistic about future margin improvements.
We continue to anticipate a volume growth of approx 15% in the last quarter, which should help us to achieve an overall volume growth in the range of 10% to 12% for FY ’25. In Q3 FY ’25, our segment profit in the wire and cable showed sequential improvement and we remain confident in achieving the margin in the range of approx 8% in the last quarter. For the Nine-Month FY ’25 period, our margin stood at approximately 6.4%, reflecting the challenges earlier in the year. On the export front, looking to improvement in business scenario, we expect that our export growth will be on normal track back with additional certifications.
Further, with favorable changes in the product mix and additional capacity building, we are confident of growth and margin improvement. In the FMH business segment, we achieved a robust revenue of approx INR240 crores in Q3 FY ’25, continuing to deliver consistent growth in the range of 20% to 25% on quarterly basis. For the Nine-Month FY ’25 period, we recorded a revenue growth of approx 25% compared to nine months FY ’24. This impressive performance was driven by strong volume growth in fans, which remained the largest contributor of our segment revenue, followed by growth in appliances and features.
On segment margin, we saw a remarkable improvement depicting reduction in losses significantly both year-on-year and sequentially, supported by operational cost-saving and a slight increase in contribution from an optimized product mix and volume growth. These companies have solidified our standing as a key growth leader in the FMEG segment and we remain dedicated to maintaining this momentum in the future. Additionally, we have successfully maintained our working capital days broadly in the range of 60 to 65 days as of December 31 December 2024, further underscoring our commitment to sound financial management and operational efficiency.
The current capex cycle continues to remain on-track. Further, the company plans to incur approximate INR1,200 crores capex over the period of next three years. This will help the company to boost its top-line by another INR4,000 crores to INR4,500 crores annually. Beyond CapEx, our strategic priorities continue to progress well in Q3 of FY ’25. Additionally, we are on-track to increase our revenue contribution from the cable segment from 30% to 35%. This initiatives initiative positions us for sustained growth and enhanced market presence in the coming quarters.
Our FME segment is progressing well with continuous initiatives including new product launches, premiumization and expanding geographical reach. These measures are designed to bring us closer to breakeven in the near-future. While we are navigating through some short-term challenges, we remain confident that these strategic actions will foster long-term growth and profitability.
With this overview, I would now like to open the floor for questions. Thank you for your attention and continued support.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use answer while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles the first question is from the line of Praveen Shay from PL Capital. Please go-ahead.
Praveen Sahay
Yeah, hi, sir. Thank you for taking my question. The first question is related to the guidance you had given 15% of volume growth for Q4 and so as for a year 10 to 12%. So how is the volume growth in the nine months? Is it in the single-digit? So 10% to 12% for entire year is achievable with a 15% growth in the 4th-quarter?
Shreegopal Kabra
Yes. So if you see on year-date — on nine-month basis, our volume growth is around 6%. So — and if we achieve this volume growth of 15% in Q4 in that range.
Praveen Sahay
Okay. And in this related to that, 15% of volume growth, are you seeing any kind of a traction, especially in your majority segment, which is a wire?
Shreegopal Kabra
So off-led, at the end of Q3 and even at the beginning of Q4, we have seen good demand in wire. So earlier in Q3, like channel was also not taking so much stock, so channel was very light at that same time and now inventory is building up and we are getting good demand in Q4 also. So we seems key — other than cable where already we have very good demand, even wire segment will also see good growth in Q4.
Praveen Sahay
Okay. And can you give the capex number for Nine-Month and the test ’25 and ’26 expected?
Shreegopal Kabra
And so if we see overall capex plan, which was planned till FY ’25, which was INR500 crores in last two years. So it is on-track like some of the capacity were added in Q3 also, especially in power cable and now going ahead also the majority of the capex will get completed by March ’25 and few like capacity will be added out of this capex by September ’25 also.
Praveen Sahay
And so our contribution of cable has increased because of this capacity expansion?
Shreegopal Kabra
Yeah. But since we got only part of this year only. This added capacity was available for partly in this year only. But if you see on a quarterly basis, of course, our contribution from cable is increasing. And as you have already seen that our cable growth is like almost 20%,
Praveen Sahay
20% for this quarter or nine months, how is that?
Shreegopal Kabra
On nine-month basis, our like volume growth is almost 20% in cable.
Praveen Sahay
Okay. And on the export, as you had mentioned shipment delay and sea crisis all led to the you know the impact in the export. How you are seeing in the export business right now, is that it started picking-up and these prices has somewhere subside?
Shreegopal Kabra
Yes, already now like prices have come down, prices also and even from demand point-of-view, like now, at the end of Q3, we have seen a good demand in export segment also. Now it will be on a normal track sequentially in Q4 and onwards.
Praveen Sahay
How is the Q3 for export?
Shreegopal Kabra
So Q3 again since our major part of exports go to Europe and normally due to this December end deals in Europe, so there was less shipment. And traditionally also it is always less shipment in the — October and November months. So now exports have picked-up in the month of December onwards.
Praveen Sahay
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. And all the best. I’ll come in the queue.
Shreegopal Kabra
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Rahul Agarwal from Asset Management. Please go-ahead.
Rahul Agarwal
Hi, sir. Good afternoon and congratulations for the recovery in margins. Sir, one question was just wanted to hear your thoughts on what’s really happening on wire, both in India and exports. So you explained a bit in the earlier question, but just wanted to be more specific, what should we expect in terms of the revenue run-rates for exports and in India for wires over the next three to six months or could you just help us understand that, please? Thank you.
Shreegopal Kabra
Thanks, Rahul. So as you have seen that though there were challenges and situation were different, but our growth in terms of revenue and volume were almost similar in both the markets, export and domestic as well. Now going-forward, as I explained now like our channel is also picking-up the demand and looking to the positive momentum in copper prices also, we have seen good growth at least at the end of Q3 and at the beginning of Q4 as well. So it seems here now like whatever there was de-growth in the first-half of the year or even in export also due to other challenges. Now it will be on the track and we will — what like planning we have made-up for 15% volume growth is achievable by focusing or by having growth from both the segments, be it domestic or export?
Rahul Agarwal
Yeah. And exports specifically, could you help us understand more as in apart from Europe, what else are we doing? What should be the quarterly run-rates?
Shreegopal Kabra
So in exports, the good part is that we have again some of very good orders in the cable segment and in future also like our focus is more on exports of cable where we have competitively higher margins. And whatever like developments we have made in this first-nine months also and now also we are in the process of getting few certification from Europe as well as US also, which will give this additional growth
Rahul Agarwal
Got it, sir. Got it. Thank you so much. All the best.
Shreegopal Kabra
Okay. Thanks.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Achal from Nuvama Institutional Equities. Please go-ahead.
Achal Lohade
Yeah, good afternoon, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, if you could just give specific a sense about the volume growth for the nine months in terms of domestic cable growth and domestic growth, please? Volume growth.
Rajesh Jain
Sure. So our — like on nine months versus nine months, our total growth is around 5% where cable is 20% and wire is negative in the range of 3%. But when we see in terms of export and domestic, then like wire in domestic and export, both were impacted by almost negative 9%, while cable have growth — grown in domestic, it is 18% and in export it is 7%.
Achal Lohade
Sorry, in wire, the export is minus 9%, is that Y-o-Y for nine months volume?
Rajesh Jain
Yes.
Achal Lohade
Okay. And domestic, how much did you say, sir? I didn’t follow that.
Rajesh Jain
So it is minus 1.9%.
Achal Lohade
Minus 1.9%. Yeah, yeah. And domestic also similar number? Domestic would be more.
Rajesh Jain
Domestic is almost 10%.
Achal Lohade
Minus 10%, is that sir? Okay. So is that — is that the industry trend according to you? Or is there any specific reason for us to have a lower domestic wires volume growth?
Rajesh Jain
No, so as explained earlier, in domestic, of course, when we are comparing on nine months versus nine months, the major impact was in the first-half of this year only.
Achal Lohade
Right. No, fair point. So you think basically, the industry would be flattish, would have also seen a decline or would have seen some growth? I’m just trying to figure that out in your estimate?
Rajesh Jain
Sorry, can you come back again?
Achal Lohade
For the industry, for the wires industry in the volumes will be flat would have seen some growth or would have seen also a decline for nine months?
Rajesh Jain
For nine months, like it seems like industry had also pressure in the wire growth and cable was doing good, though we do not have exact backup from peers also as publicly figures are not available, but still what we understand based on our important channel that it seems key, wire was like almost having less growth in compared to cables.
Achal Lohade
Understood. And now help us understand in terms of the cables, you know the capacity, where are we in terms of addition? You said there will be some capacity which will come by March and some will come by September. So what is the potential revenue of cables out-of-the — these two and existing capacities put together?
Rajesh Jain
So what happened like this capex, what we have done like have a potential to have a further growth of around INR2,500 crores, but since this will be like-on-like sequential growth will be there. So this will — this capex will help us to meet the additional growth demand of FY ’26 and ’27.
Achal Lohade
Understood. And the next round of capex, I was bit confused. You said INR1,200 crores over next three years. Is that true?
Rajesh Jain
Yes.
Achal Lohade
Which these three years are, sir, is this ’26, ’27, ’28 or 25 ’26, ’27.
Rajesh Jain
’26, ’27, ’28? Because see, what capex already we have done, it will be get completed by March ’25. So what capex I’m is INR1,200 is for next three years starting from April ’25 onwards?
Achal Lohade
Understood. And can you be a little bit more specific, sir, on this INR1,200 crore, where-is it going to spend in terms of location and in terms of which category?
Rajesh Jain
So this will be like brown field project in the existing facility at, which is near and majority of this export will be in cable only because since still our share in cable is very less and we have a high-potential growth area also. So — and it will be like balanced with growth in wire as well to have sequential growth over year-on-year. So majority of my capex will be focused on cable only.
Achal Lohade
So is it fair to say like 70%, 80% of this or
Rajesh Jain
Almost 80% will go in the cable.
Achal Lohade
So almost INR1,000 crore and that would give what incremental INR5,000 crores of revenue?
Rajesh Jain
No, no. On consolidated basis, it will be in the range of INR4,000 crores to INR4,500 crores because majority of the cable were as per thumb-rule, the — you can expect returns of sales cycle of 3x, 3x to 3.5x only.
Achal Lohade
3 times to 3.5x.
Rajesh Jain
And just I would like to clarify on volumes because I mentioned the figures on Y-o-Y basis. So like if — just to clarify the volume growth on nine months versus Nine-Month basis, my domestic wire was almost flat while cable grew by 21% and export wire was like negative by 5.6%, while cable was 18.5%.
Achal Lohade
Understood. Sir, last question if I may with respect to the exports, can you help us understand in terms of particularly to US, how large is for us in US market out-of-the total export? And in terms of the SKUs, you know, whatever US imports do we — do we have all the capability certifications? What percentage of their imports we are entitled for or eligible for?
Rajesh Jain
So as of now, almost 10% of my revenue is coming from US and in this quarter that we have in the process, almost we have achieved — received the certification of one and two product. But to get that streamlined, I think by next quarter, we will start another new products in US market. So there will be — in this quarter, we may have not seen a huge growth in US exports, but from next year onwards, we can see good improvement in our export.
Achal Lohade
Understood. Just to drill on this first question, who do we compete here, which country and you know what advantage or disadvantage we are against the other exporters in terms of percentage of the value.
Rajesh Jain
So every market has different competition like in Europe, we have competition from Turkey, while in US, East China is the largest supplier of cable, though now the tax and import duties are not favorable to them also. But right now it seems key — India is still have a lot of export potential and we are at very small contributor in overall exports at international level. So we have good scope to improve, particularly in US and Europe.
Achal Lohade
Got it. And just to clarify, 10% of export revenue is from US or 10% of total revenue is from US
Rajesh Jain
Of total export only. 10% revenue export.
Achal Lohade
Okay. Europe is the largest. Got it.
Rajesh Jain
Europe is like more than 50%.
Achal Lohade
Got it, got it. Thank you so much. I’ll fall-back in the queue, sir. Thank you.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Natasha Jain from PhillipCapital. Please go-ahead.
Natasha Jain
Thank you for the opportunity and good afternoon, sir. Sir, my first question is on the export mix. So out-of-the 20% — 27% of your exports, how much is wires and how much is cables currently?
Rajesh Jain
And so it’s like 70% ratio of 27%. So what happens like at overall basis also, our wire and cable ratio is 70-30 now which is moving towards like improvement in cable, which is moving by 1% or 2% every quarter. And in export also, we are almost maintaining the same ratio.
Natasha Jain
Understoodsa, so when you say 1% or 2% every quarter, next year — next financial year when your cable capacities come up, can we expect this shift to move to at least 60 40% in terms of exports?
Rajesh Jain
Maybe 35%, or 65%
Natasha Jain
All right. So your 35% of your export would be your cable exports.
Rajesh Jain
Yeah. And similar, we are expecting in domestic asset. So I’m saying even at company-level, we try to improve our cable sales ratio and it may now — by next year and it may in the range of 65% 35%.
Natasha Jain
Got it. Sir, and the question on wires again. So wires, what I understand at least at an Indian industry level, there is overcapacity for wires. Now I want to understand, is this market a very brand-conscious market because otherwise scaling up of capacities is very easy for wires. So having said that, do you see any near-term risk for wires as a product category.
Rajesh Jain
So good part about the Indian wire market that this is like now it is directly B2C category product where people care about brand quality and which is like B2C category. And like day-by day, the organization — organized sector is getting more market-share. Of course, our competition will always be there and — but it is more about how you build your brand, how you generate or get pull factor-in market. So it is all about marketing efforts as well as focus on your quality. And even when we see like off-late, we have seen that after this GST or demonetization, we have seen that day organized per share is increasing. So it’s about the big brands for all top peers, how they achieve or how they improve their market-share.
Natasha Jain
Got it, sir. Sir, you mentioned in your opening comments about the governmental capex slowdown, which is obviously there. So I want to understand, can that pose a near-term risk for us or in fact for the industry because a lot of cables capacity will come live in calendar ’25. So any slowdown in governmental capex and then a slowdown in power distribution and then a slowdown in cables, do you see that as a risk in, say, the next one year time-frame?
Shreegopal Kabra
And what I consider that the decrease in government spending was temporary because if India has to focus on growth or if we have to build infrastructure, then government has to focus on spending and they have to increase spending. We may wait for sometimes how government declaring budget also. But as fundamentally, I believe that there will always be a good scope of improvement in infrastructure investment and therefore, why and cable demand will always be there. And even whatever additional capacity we see it is in the building, still there will be more demand in terms of export market as well as India is spending on infrastructure building.
Natasha Jain
So it’s safe to say that the capacities that are coming live will still be short in terms of what the demand for is.
Shreegopal Kabra
At least for next three, four years, it seems like there will be short of supply only.
Natasha Jain
Got it. And sir, last question, if I may. You mentioned about the Red Sea crisis which affected your exports. So has that kind of eased down now? And what about the freight charges? Has that also softened?
Shreegopal Kabra
So freight charge, of course, they have softened and we have seen like reduction in freight to Europe as well as USA also. Yeah, the HC prices also to some extent, it has eased up and there are some delays, but now it is not extraordinary delays and I think people have also adjusted their delays in their shipping requirements.
Natasha Jain
Got it, sir. Thank you and all the very best.
Shreegopal Kabra
Thank you very much.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Manoj Gori from Equirus Capital. Please go-ahead.
Manoj Gori
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir. Sir, since over the last one, 1.5 year, we have been targeting to scale-up our presence into peaker or probably into newer geographies. And we believe like this should have resulted into better than industry growth rate, especially in the. We do understand that there have been underlying demand challenges. But ideally we should have outperformed the industry and probably the geographical strength that we were looking to build, that’s not visible in the numbers. So can you throw some light like where are we lagging or probably what’s actually of shuttling this growth. So with my first question, sir.
Shreegopal Kabra
Yeah, I can understand, of course, there is like we have grown lesser than industry pace also and there were challenges. It doesn’t mean that we were not having efforts towards that, but like the copper price volatility has affected more in compared to other industry player in the first-half of this year and that’s why we have seen lesser growth. But on the basis of fundamentals where we are working, first, first we are like best-in quality in terms of like we are the only company in reach and compliant, same way even our loyalty managed program is the largest in the industry. So there are some short-term impact, but as a fundamentally, still we are confident that we will do better than industry is.
Manoj Gori
Sir, I will ask you it a bit differently. So probably in last one and a half year, can you throw some light like which are the new geographies that you have ventured into and how things are progressing over there.
Shreegopal Kabra
So if you see our current strength, like we are very strong in West and north part of the country, but it’s still like we have to weigh our path of growth or increasing our market-share in southern part of the country and East part of the country. So we — now we have like a good network of dealer and whatever, but still we were not able to get the quantum what we were looking for. And it seems now — since we have already made the best, so now it is time how it is that efforts and how we get the results of our investment, what we have done in previous year or even current year nine months in this new geography. But it will be like more from Southern and eastern part of the country.
Manoj Gori
Okay. And sir, lastly, if I may, how do you read the overall underlying demand environment? We know it’s challenging, but probably see long-term macros obviously will continue to remain intact, but probably from a Six-Month or two Nine-Month period, like overall, if you look at underlying demand for last couple of years for wires as a category has been under pressure, right? So if you can throw some light like how do you read the situation for the industry in specific
Shreegopal Kabra
Yeah. So even when we see at GDP level, we have seen some like downward trend in GDP what figure — publicly figure a level for first-half of this year. So there was some pressure and still there are some pressure in wire — especially in wire. But overall, if you see and if you see at micro-level, there are good demand at least in cable and there are so many regions like first and biggest is like this wind and solar. So moving towards this non-traditional power generation, there are a lot of opportunities are there, same way infrastructure work is like low pace was slow in first-half, but now it seems it will be on-track. So fundamentally, it seems key even in short-term or little bit longer-term also while we may have some challenges, but cable, of course has very good growth and also sequentially it has to grow.
Manoj Gori
Right, sir. Thank you and wish you all the best.
Shreegopal Kabra
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Srinadi Karlkar from HSBC. Please go-ahead.
Shrinidhi Karlekar
Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on good improvement in margin. Sir, a couple of questions. Just one clarification. On guidance, for Q4, are you saying cable environ EBIT margin can go to 8% from 7% in Q3 and
Rajesh Jain
Yes, yes. So what we have seen like 8% even last year, our overall like margins are in the range of 8.4% and looking to the trend of last quarter also and current trend, it seems like we will be able to achieve 8% kind of EBIT margin for Q4.
Shrinidhi Karlekar
Right. And sir, second question is, in the quarter gone by, did you face capacity constraint in the cable business?
Rajesh Jain
Yes, cable always we are getting that challenge is particularly in ST cable, where we have very limited capacity and still like though we have added some capacity in Q3 also, but I think more — we can have some relax in terms of capacity constraint in Q4 and later on next year onwards, we will have some capacity.
Shrinidhi Karlekar
And sir, last one, when you say you aspire to reach — you have a long-term vision of reaching double-digit EBITDA margins. Here are we specifically talking about the cable and wire business or we are talking about at the company levels and in what time-frame we try to achieve there.
Rajesh Jain
So like for both of course, we have to achieve this annualized company-level also, we are trying to get double-digit margin, but first we will get-in and cable and by — it is expected that by FY ’28, we can expect double-digit margins in both at company-level also.
Shrinidhi Karlekar
Okay. Thank you for answering your question and all the best.
Shreegopal Kabra
Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Before we take the next question, we would like to remind participants that you may press star N1 to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Naushad from Aditya Birla Mutual Funds. Please go-ahead.
Naushad Chaudhary
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Two clarifications, sir. Firstly, I was just curious to understand in terms of what — what specific calculation you have and what is the math you have that makes you believe that there will not be a supply issue, there will not be a capacity step-up issue in the industry, especially in our cable business, why there should be a continued supply shortage for next two, three years? What is the calculation you have that makes you believe this?
Shreegopal Kabra
So, if you see the capex plan of all the big players of like players of — particularly cable manufacturer and say Indian cable growth is growing. So normally like it seems to by the looking to the plan of government or development infrastructure or development in wind, solar power generation or even the opportunity in export market. So even the — if even if this industry, particularly in cable, if it grew by, say, 20%, then the sum of this industry average may not suffice to supply all capex. Because now these days even the capex cycle is almost 24 to 30 months-to get whatever capacity you are building, like even in our case, what capex we started in FY ’24, now it is getting completed. So in that way, it seems India has more growth opportunities than what capacity it is getting built-up. And already we have seen that even last year or in this year also, there was huge supply shortage at least in power cable.
Naushad Chaudhary
Yes, sir, but historically, if we look at the industry capex average, if you look at last three years, five years. So broadly it has been in the range of between 700 to 800 or max thousand. Last year was a peak in terms of capacity addition from a capex point-of-view and next two, three years it is it is going up substantially and we have seen the peak of demand for ’24 and on that base, we have to grow. And with this kind of capacity, but at least we should have some very, very strong visibility at least in one or two piece of End-User industry where we are confident that they should be able to help to absorb all these capacities.
So do you think the kind of run-rate, which used to be INR1,000 crore has gone up to INR4,000 crore annual cross block addition in the industry started from FY ’24 should be a problem in ’25, ’26. At least for short-term, we understand the growth point-of-view, but because this is B2B, everybody’s capacity would come together at least for short-term period, everybody would fight to absorb this capacity short-term may. Do you think we might have the — have to compromise on the margin side? And long-term, I believe, okay, five years, this capacity would be absorbed, but short-term one has to compromise on the margin to fill the capacities..
Shreegopal Kabra
So first regarding if you demand, I may clarify that you have to see — even if you see the way government has planned the growth in solar power generation. Like what we have done till now, five times or more is government is planning in next four, five years. So even if it happens in not in four years, but in six, seven years, you can assume the quantum of solar cable will be required. Same way like the infrastructure — though this year we have seen some slow-growth in first-six months, but still see, if India has to grow, then we have to invest in infrastructure growth. Thirdly, even in export opportunity, we have seen a very good demand. Earlier like we — there were hardly any export of wire and cable and now we have seen a good demand from Europe or USA also. So that is giving us the confidence that in long-term, there will be a good demand. Even at our level, when we are very small player in cable and our capacity is very limited, we know, okay, there is huge potential of expansion and growth there. And that is also without compromising on price. So we are confident to have a higher-growth in cable segment in coming years.
Naushad Chaudhary
Okay. And second on the margin side, can you now — can you share the specific levers which you have, which makes you believe that your 6% should go to double-digit? What should drive it? Thank you?
Rajesh Jain
Yes. So two or three regions are there we are working. First, this — like last year, we were in the range of 7%. So though this year we have seen a degrowth, but even if we take the or improvement of 100 to 120 bps year-on-year, then we can be by FY ’28, we can be in the double-digit and this will be backed by my first change in-product mix where we are improving our margins. We are having high-margin products like export of cables or solar cable or specialized cable. So — and plus we will get the benefit of scale also. So this will give improvement in our margins.
Naushad Chaudhary
So your first lever is change in-product mix export of power cable, solar cable, would it come at the cost of the overall business economics in terms of do you have to compromise on the working capital or have to deploy some more money to get this 1% margin?
Rajesh Jain
No, the working capital cycle is only 60 days, which is like almost at the best of the industry average. So — and it export doesn’t mean that I will need higher inventory or higher working capital. So this is all factoring all the factors we are saying that our margins will improve. When my scale will improve, so I will get a cost-benefit advantage also.
Naushad Chaudhary
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Rohan Vora from Envision Capital. Please go-ahead.
Rohan Vora
Hello, sir, thank you for the opportunity. So, sir, to one of the previous questions that you answered, you said that volatility.
Operator
I’m sorry to interrupt. MR. Rohan, your volume is coming very low.
Rohan Vora
Is it better now?
Operator
Yeah. Thank you.
Rohan Vora
Yes. So thank you for the opportunity, sir. So one of the previous answers, you mentioned that volatility in copper impacted us more than the other industry players. So just a little bit more color on how that was the case and what we’ve done so that this is not repeated going-forward, because that resulted in us losing market-share in wires. So that is why — so this is the question one. Thank you.
Shreegopal Kabra
Yeah. So Rohan, what I mean to say by like more impact on volatility of volatility in my margins because see, we are the like having highest revenue coming from wire, which is B2C product. And what happens always there will be like time lag between passing on the prices of like whatever raw-material prices has been changed. The only extraordinary things happened in first-half of this year was that there was like a sudden rise in the copper prices and by the time we could pass-on that prices rise of impact to our consumer, the copper prices again came down very sharply. So if there is too much volatility within a very small span of time, then of course, we may have some impact in our profitability. But overall, it will be like always passing on the effect of copper prices to consumers. So this was like a kind of one-time only effect.
Rohan Vora
Okay, understood. And sir, so second question was — sorry if it is a repetitive one. The capacity that is coming in the coming quarter. So how much volume growth would that enable us to do? And what is the color on FY ’26 volume growth that you’re looking at? Thank you.
Rajesh Jain
So this overall capex is like — have a probability or possibility of adding top-line of INR2,500 crores, but like looking to our historical growth and even our current expansion plan, like for this Q4, we are planning having volume growth of 15%. And for coming years, we are making detailed plans and we’ll give guidance by end of Q4.
Rohan Vora
Sure, sir. Thank you so much.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Praveen Shay from PL Capital. Please go-ahead.
Praveen Sahay
Yeah, hi. Thank you for a follow-up. My question related to the FMEG business. There you had a mention that there is a very strong volume growth in the fan. So if you can give some color on this, you know, in the nine months the growth you had achieved, how much is from the bit segment and also volume value mix, if you can give how much is like 23% of growth comes from the volume and how much is the value? And related to that, by when you are expecting to achieve a breakeven in this segment?
Shreegopal Kabra
So in FMAG, like we have seen a very good growth in, particularly in and like earlier, our — like almost 40% revenue was coming from FEM. Now it has increased to 45%. In lights also, we have seen a very good growth, but due to that price rationalization and negative pricing in lighting, the growth is flat at value level. But at the same time, we have seen like very good growth in appliances also. So by top like broader product mix in my FMEG, like 45% revenue is coming from fan, 32% is coming from light and rest 23% is coming from appliances and switches. And so when we talk about breakeven, like as I mentioned earlier also, we are expecting that Q1 of next FY ’26, that is like June 25 quarter we will able to come into green at EBITDA level.
Praveen Sahay
And volume growth, can you give color on that? So out of a 23% of growth, how much is from the volume?
Shreegopal Kabra
So like — though I do not have exact backup of this, but 55% growth came in fan segment and like 20% of our sale-in fan came from new products, which we introduced in this year and we are getting almost 23% to 25% revenue in fan from premium category. So this is a very broad breakup of our sales.
Praveen Sahay
Hi, sir. And how much of the capex is planned in this segment and at what level of utilization of your capacity currently in.
Shreegopal Kabra
So in FMEG, we have not made any big capex plan. It will be very small like in the range of INR20 crore INR25 crores only because still like majority of our FMEG we are sourcing through third-party only. So almost two-third of my revenue is coming from on trading basis and only one-third is coming through manufacturing.
Praveen Sahay
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thanks a lot.
Shreegopal Kabra
Okay.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Shivam Khadi from 3A Financial Service. Please go-ahead.
Shivam Khadi
Hello, am I audible?
Shreegopal Kabra
Yes, please.
Shivam Khadi
Yeah. So I just wanted to know the capacity utilization over the segments.
Shreegopal Kabra
Yeah. So in — particularly in wire, we are at 65% to 7%, while in cable, we are already at 92%, 95% capacity utilization.
Shivam Khadi
90 to 95% cable, right?
Shreegopal Kabra
Yeah.
Shivam Khadi
Okay. And sir, what about the order book for the current order book and the targeted order book as well over the next couple of years?
Shreegopal Kabra
So yes, since we are more into B2C category also. So like it is ongoing project and we do not have very long order book where we have orders of two years or three years or one year since majority of the sales is B2C category. So it is continuous process.
Shivam Khadi
Okay. And but any revenue guidance as a business as a whole, like where do we see ourselves in the next four years or something by 2030 or something like that with the data centers and everything coming up?
Shreegopal Kabra
So we are making our detailed vision statement and growth plan, which we’ll give by next quarter.
Shivam Khadi
Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you. That’s all.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today’s conference call. I now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments.
Shreegopal Kabra
Thank you everyone for joining this call. We appreciate your participant and if you have any questions or queries, please feel free-to reach-out to us directly or contact Orient Capital. We look-forward to connecting with you again next quarter. Thank you.
Operator
On behalf of RR Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.