Punjab Chemicals and Crop Protection Limited (NSE: PUNJABCHEM) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Jan. 29, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Manish Mahawar — Analyst
Vinod Gupta — Chief Executive Officer
Shalil Shroff — Managing Director
Analysts:
Jenam Gilani — Analyst
Rahul Jain — Analyst
Bhavya Gandhi — Analyst
Ankit Gupta — Analyst
Viraj Mahadevia — Analyst
Harsh Beria — Analyst
Riju Dalui — Analyst
Rohit Ohri — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q3 and Nine-Month FY ’25 Post-Results Conference Call of Punjab Chemicals and Crop Protection Limited hosted by Antique Stock Broking Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on a touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Manish Mahawar from Antique Stock Broking. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Manish Mahawar — Analyst
Yeah, thank you. On behalf of Antique Stock Broking, I would like to welcome all the participants on the call of Punjab Chemical and Crop Protection.
From the management, we have Mr. Shalil Shroff, Managing Director; Mr. Vinod Gupta, CEO on the call. Without further ado, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Gupta for opening remarks, post which we will open the floor for Q&A. Thank you. And over to you, Mr. Gupta.
Vinod Gupta — Chief Executive Officer
Thank you, Manish. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us for today’s con call to discuss our Q3 and nine months business.
I’m joined by our Managing Director, Mr. Shalil Shroff. We sincerely value your time and appreciate your continued interest in our company’s performance. I trust you have had an opportunity to look at our financial results and investor presentation, which are now available on the stock exchange and on our company’s website.
To start with, I’ll provide a brief overview of agrochemical industry. The sector continues to exhibit mixed signals regarding demand recovery, while prices have largely stabilized after witnessing a declining trend in previous quarters. Export demand continues to be subdued due to price uncertainty, oversupply in the market and reduced margin. Amid these — amid these challenging times, our focus remains on implementing strategic initiatives to maintain competitiveness, optimizing asset utilization, backward integration and capitalizing on emerging opportunities to sustain our momentum in an evolving and complex market environment. As you would have seen from our numbers, in order to counter the softer demand from export market, we have added products for domestic — domestic supplies and new products have been added for the domestic market to — in order to increase our product basket.
For the quarter, revenue stood at INR213.9 crores, while for nine months of FY ’25, revenue is at INR698.2 crores, reflecting an year-on-year decline of 5.3%. The domestic market contributed to 50% to the quarterly revenues and 62% to the nine-month period. The slight decline in revenue is primarily attributable to softer pricing. Although volumes and capacity utilization remained steady during the quarter. Market conditions have been volatile, driven by heightened competition and pricing pressure in certain regions. Despite these headwinds, our gross margins remained stable, expanding by 60 basis-points for the nine months of FY ’25.
However, EBITDA was impacted due to elevated freight costs and some operational cost and one-time forex relax related expenses. On a positive note, our proactive engagement with both existing and new customers has begun to yield results. Many of our customers are increasingly looking at Punjab Chemicals as a reliable partner for sourcing critical products and materials and next few quarters are looking exciting for increase in our portfolio.
During the quarter, our Industrial Chemical division achieved a significant milestone, receiving in-principle approval from one of the largest beverage manufacturers to supply their entire phosphoric acid requirement for their upcoming new facility in Gujarat. As a strategy, we continue to execute — execute a forward-looking strategy centered on strengthening infrastructure, upgrading our talent pool and workforce, diversifying R&D capabilities and also new technology adoption. Over the past quarter, we enhanced our operational infrastructure to improve raw material and utility efficiencies. Simultaneously, our R&D efforts have accelerated resulting into several more new molecules being developed. Our product pipeline remains robust with multiple new product launches planned over the next few months. These new offerings are expected to deliver higher margins in bolstering our financial performance going-forward.
Let me look at — talk about the financial highlights for the quarter and nine months. Our revenue from operations stood at INR213.9 crores. Analyzing geographical contribution, domestic market accounted for INR150 crore sale, whereas international market contributed to INR60 crores to our total revenues. Gross margins for the quarter stood at 40%. EBITDA for the quarter is INR19.3 crores, down year-on-year by 25.6%. Margin stood at 9%, down by 310 bps year-on-year. Profit-after-tax for the quarter stood at INR6.1 crores, down by 45%.
PAT margin for the quarter stood at 2.8% in-quarter three of FY ’25. For the Nine-Month performance, revenue is INR698.2 crores. And in geography contribution, domestic market accounted for INR431 crores, whereas international market contributed to INR267 crores to our total revenues. Gross margin stood at 39.4%, up by 60 basis points year-on-year. EBITDA for the nine months stood at INR73.7 crores, down 26%. Year-on-year margin — margin stood at IN 10.6 crores, down by 290 basis-points and profit-after-tax was INR31.9 crores, down by 37%. PAT margin for the quarter stood at the quarter stood at 4.6% for nine months of FY ’25. Our capacity utilization for all the three sites demonstrated a positive trend. Agrochemical division capacity utilization is at 72%, Performance Chemicals division is at 52% and Industrial division is operating at full capacity.
In conclusion, while the broader market environment is challenging, we are confident that our initiatives, coupled with our strong product pipeline and strategic initiatives will drive long-term value-creation for all our stakeholders. Thank you for your patience listening and continued trust and support. Now, we are now happy to take any of your questions.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press star and one on your touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles.
First question is from Jenam Gilani from Swan Investments. Please go-ahead.
Jenam Gilani
Good afternoon, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. Sir, as you mentioned in your opening remarks that export market was a little bit subdued and we were focusing more on the domestic market and launched a couple of new molecules. So can you just help us understanding how did the volume grew quarter-on-quarter and what was our market-share in the domestic market and the contribution of the new molecules in the overall basket mix?
Vinod Gupta
So overall, the new molecule that we have introduced in the domestic market are for new products, which are intermediates and specialty chemicals and this is an addition to our product portfolio. So this is not a substitution kind of a thing. This is a permanent addition. So as and when export market recovers, this momentum of domestic market will continue. And if you have to sort of talk about a rough number, I think this new product portfolio has contributed about 15% to of our revenues.
Jenam Gilani
I would say when you compare the new product has contributed to 15% to our — to our revenue and this product have a better margin as compared to our existing portfolio. But overall, our operating performance still look much bigger than the commentary that we are giving it. So are we missing something on that front?
Vinod Gupta
I think there are two aspects I will say. One is overall, the market is is very, very competitive and challenging. Now in this market, we have been able to develop a product and deliver competitively. So that’s the first step-in terms of our achievement. That’s what I’ll say because we have — and these are more or less, I think we will probably be at more than 50% market-share as and when we sort of mature these products, okay. And once the market recovers, these margins will improve significantly. So, we have achieved from first milestone of being competitive on the new processes that we have developed. No further work on improving efficiencies and cost is going on all these new products that we have introduced.
Jenam Gilani
So in the last con-call, I mean you guys had mentioned that we had actually gained the market-share in the domestic market. But looking at your Q3 numbers and the presentation that you uploaded on the exchanges, it seems that our volume sequentially has declined and there is hardly any contribution coming from the Lalru facility. So can you help us understand why Lalru didn’t operate during the quarter and there was a significant decline in the overall volume in the domestic front?
[Technical Issues]
Operator
We seem to have lost the line for the management. Please stay connected while we reconnect the management. Participants, thank you for patiently holding your lines. We have the line for the management reconnected. Over to you, sir.
Jenam Gilani
Yeah. Can I repeat my question?
Vinod Gupta
And can you repeat your question because we got disconnected halfway through. So see in last con-call, Mr. Salil had mentioned that we have actually gained the market-share in the domestic market. But looking at the current quarter numbers, there is a sharp drop in the overall volume when you look at the Dera Visi facility and Lalru facility hardly operated during the quarter. So, was there any one-off that happened in the Lalru that will be operated at capacity and what is the status currently?
Shalil Shroff
Yeah. Yeah, so I’ll take that. Basically, you know because of the product mix and there was this one-off product which was supposed to come in Q3, which has been postponed to almost end of Q4. So, please understand sometimes with the product which we make either it’s an intermediate, which is for the domestic market, it takes some time for the person to get it registered basically if it’s related to a specialty chemical as an intermediate. So, that’s basically one-off. But when I did mention that the products which were related to the domestic market as on date, we are at par in terms of the product launch.
Jenam Gilani
No, Sam, I agree on that part that we are on par on the product launch, but in terms of the existing product portfolio, there is a sharp decline in the volume because if you look in the first-half, operated at almost 50% utilization with a 960,000 tonnes of the volume, whereas in nine months also the volume continues to remain at the same level. So did we take a maintenance shutdown for entire three months for the facility or what are — I mean, are we trying to do any R&D facility out at Lalro? So, want to understand on that front.
Shalil Shroff
So yeah, basically, Lallu, we had maintenance shutdown, but even that one-product which we wanted was delayed due to-market conditions.
Jenam Gilani
So there was no existing product manufactured at Lalru in Q3?
Shalil Shroff
I mean, I wouldn’t say that the plant was total shutdown. There was a maintenance shutdown for around three weeks. But after that we did continue in terms of certain products. But the volume-related to the six months and then taking the three months, obviously, there is a difference because that the other product will now get resumed somewhere by mid Feb.
Jenam Gilani
But then sir, your presentation gives us a different picture because if you look first-half, the Lalru facility production was 960 and in nine months, it’s only 980. So there is only incremental 20,000 tonnes of the production. So I mean, is there anything that we are missing or there is a change — I mean wrong updated presentation will need to be updated.
Vinod Gupta
I think there is an error in the number there. I think I just looked at the number. I think we have made that Arab, we’ll correct the presentation.
Shalil Shroff
Sure. And second, yes.
Vinod Gupta
I think what Mr Shawf has said. But overall, the performance capacity utilization has been — otherwise, we won’t be presenting a 58% capacity utilization for us.
Jenam Gilani
So that’s what precisely I was asking because numbers will be different.
Vinod Gupta
There is an error in the presentation that we correct and upload the correct.
Jenam Gilani
And one more question to Mr. Salit on a broader strategy. Now sir, when you indicate that the Europe is not doing good domestically, we are launching a new product. And we are talking this since last almost four to five quarters and last year also we launched couple of new molecules. Last quarter, we launched couple of them. But the traction, we haven’t seen any significant improvement in our profitability. So how do we see this ramping-up in next coming quarters or so where we can actually expect a registration and the order flow kicking-in for our existing product as well as the new molecules?
Shalil Shroff
Okay. And so as you know that the market conditions for the last one, one-and-half year almost from ’24, ’23 end to ’24 has been challenging. And the customers with whom we are discussing certain products have been delayed due to their own internal discussion. That doesn’t mean that the business has gone off, that business is very much there, but it has been pushed by a couple of quarters. And we are — with our interaction with the customer, we believe that by middle of this year, so when I say middle of this year, which comes to them would be Q3, which should be up for around Q2, Q3, which will be Q4 for them, we should be in a position to add these products to our portfolio.
Again, because of the inventory levels which were carried of other products, the customer themselves decided to take a little bit of a breather and then go back into the system of launching of new products. But as I said, that rhythm is very much on. We have been discussing with the customers. It is just because of this — basically because of this market trend and basically China pushing the prices down. So, people are now getting the inventory out, the correction is happening. So we believe in the next financial year by Q2, Q3, things should be in shape. And gradually the new products will come in, which will add better margin towards our performance in the years to come.
Jenam Gilani
I hope we deliver on that. Last question, I mean, Vinod ji indicated the contract that we have entered with the beverage manufacturers to supply the molecules. So do we expect that execution of the order to start from Q4 or probably that will also happen in FY ’26 itself?
Shalil Shroff
It should go into FY ’26.
Jenam Gilani
So nothing in Q4. Nothing in Q4.
Shalil Shroff
No.
Jenam Gilani
Sure, sir. That’s all from our side. Thank you and all the best.
Vinod Gupta
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from Rahul Jain from Credence Wealth. Please go-ahead.
Rahul Jain
Thanks for the opportunity. So just to understand clearly on the export side, you mentioned that it is still another two, 3/4 for revival to happen. And just to understand, what we understand last-time also you had mentioned in the call that inventory situation is much more better or the destocking is almost done. So on that front, now the prices have been stable for last three, four months or have they still fallen? And also with regards to demand, has the demand somewhere been the similar as what it was three, four months back or is there some improvement?
Vinod Gupta
So, I think let me address the pricing — pricing front, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, now further decline is more or less arrested. So there is no further decline on the prices. So prices are stable. And as the demand picks up because I think we have been seeing that inventory is not there in the system. So as the demand picks up, we will see some uptrend on the pricing. Obviously, it will not run-up immediately because there is enough supply available from various suppliers for all the products.
Now coming to the demand situation, I think we expect that in the next — the next financial year, demand will resume to normal level because now inventories have more or less got exhausted. However, the demand flow will be not a continuous flow. I think earlier, say, for example, we used to have a discussion and nine months, 12 months direct flat order. It will be a quarter-to-quarter discussion because people are still scared of building — rebuilding the inventory. But I think as on-date, our discussion for Q4, Q1 and Q2 are progressing and the demand forecast is looking quite healthy.
Rahul Jain
Sure. Now with regards to capex, so looking around, probably demand will gradually improve and we are still somewhere if the next two, 3/4, the demand starts improving. So are we planning capex for that now going ahead because we had planned it earlier and we are running almost at optimum capacity in one of our plants.
Vinod Gupta
So, I think we had deferred some of the decisions of investment that we have started relooking at it. At the same time, we are further looking at process improvement and debottlenecking so that whatever demand comes that we can cater to. And we are confident that whatever business that comes, we will be able to cater to that requirement in our existing infrastructure. And in some cases, we have started looking at some steps or some operations being outsourced to nearby facilities so that all the upside on the demand is captured by us. So, we are taking care of all these things right now and working on various options.
Rahul Jain
But at current prices, assuming the prices remain the same, the existing infrastructure, including the subcontracting given in by plants, what kind of top-line is possible?
Shalil Shroff
Unfortunately, with the certain guidelines with and all, we are not — we can’t exactly give you the numbers, but definitely there will be an improvement from what you have seen — what you have seen….
Rahul Jain
No, no, sir, I’m not asking for a guidance, I’m not asking for a number for a particular year. I’m just saying the existing infrastructure can support what kind of revenues?
Shalil Shroff
So today you know if you — if you recall, we were at close to around INR1,000 plus. For the last year, we were 900. This year also, we are right now at 700, we should close at around 935. So next year, we are looking at least a jump of anywhere between 12% to 14% — 12% to 14%.
Rahul Jain
So last thing, sir, on this phosphoric side, you have mentioned in your initial remarks with regards to our new facility coming up with the guy. So are we planning some capex over there? And currently, the phosphorus part typically contributes what kind of revenue to the overall sales. And with this new initiative, where do we think this particular segment can go?
Shalil Shroff
So we have been discussing around a year and a half back that we are looking at a new site. In few, we were almost there, but because of some due-diligence and our legal did not clear it. So we left it. And then the market was a little unstable. So we have revived it. It. In fact, we are now on a fast-track to get this site between Maharashtra and Gujarat. Our existing industrial division is in Pimpri, Pune, which is quite saturated. So with this new facility, which will come in for this part of the phosphorus chemistry would be at the new site. And at that time, an appropriate number hopefully by Q2 next year, we should come back and give you the exact number of capex, which we’ll be spending towards that.
Rahul Jain
Okay, sure. Thanks for the detailed replies. I’ll come back.
Vinod Gupta
Thank you, Mr. Rahul.
Operator
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to participants that you may press star and one to join the question queue.
The next question is from Bhavya Gandhi from Dalal & Broacha Stock Broking. Please go-ahead.
Bhavya Gandhi
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Am I audible?
Vinod Gupta
Yes just we can hear you.
Bhavya Gandhi
Sir, my first question is regarding the other expenses. We have around INR43 crores of other expenses for the quarter. If you can just give a broad split, what are those expenses? The reason why I’m asking is because on the gross margin, we are at a good number, right, 40%, but EBITDA is the concern, right? That has come in at around 9% and that has been in last three, four quarters. I mean, we are still struggling on the EBITDA front. I understand that revenue and all that is one thing, but still — so what is — why are we not curtailing other expenses at least?
Shalil Shroff
So as far as the other expenses are concerned, could be broken up into two or three different things. One would be to re-engineer in terms of capex, upgrading of few equipment, which is all one-time. Generally over a year in 12 months, there is one is a standard capex which goes on. But yes, close to around — for that 42 CR, close to around 15 to 18 CR is to up build the facility in terms of getting some new reactors and for better efficiencies, having few columns for better recoveries. And also regarding HFC health safety environment also, we have spent some money. So that is a one-time, which is very important for today’s market moving forward.
Now as far as EBITDA is concerned, yes, definitely margins have been subdued. One-way is where we have — because Punjab, we are quite large basically on the agro side, which is close to around, 40%, 45%, which is a B2B business in which we have sat with the customer and taken that we should not lose the market-share, but let’s try and see that we cut cost both ways. They take some haircuts that is the buyer and we as seller also work together in tandem to see that the market is not lost. But having said that, as we see that now that the market prices have stabilized, we have also done — gone back to the drawing board and our team are quite confident that there would be definitely process improvements. And as you see when we fall in the next year-by Q2, Q3 with few more products added, we should get back to the numbers which we had projected.
Bhavya Gandhi
No, no, actually my question is your absolute other expenses, not just for this quarter, if you compare it on a Y-o-Y basis also, because I believe the repairs and maintenance of the incremental capex that you were saying, the machine upgradation would be a part of your gross fixed asset and not be expensed off in P&L, right? Because in Q-o-Q also, if you compare, other expenses were closer to INR45 crores. Y-o-Y also, you compare it was INR41 crores because every quarter cannot have repairs and maintenance, I believe.
Shalil Shroff
No, so there could be partly a — it is the tune of new — newer assets which we have got in. What we can do is that we’ll just look into it, but practically what we see on the surface of your question is that it’s not recurring expenses which would come in taking forward for the next financial year.
Bhavya Gandhi
Okay. Fair enough. And sir, just one last thing. On a longer-term, would you like to give any margin guidance? Because I believe we are talking — on one-hand, we are talking about CRAMS, market share, new product launches and our margins don’t replicate all that, right? Not at the moment, but what is your aspiration in terms of EBITDA margin? Because if you look at any of the CRAMS players, we are closer to at least 20% sort of EBITDA margin, right? So if you can throw some light on it?
Shalil Shroff
Yeah. So basically, as I said that few of our products which are under CRAM is because of the — I would say the market conditions. We as a seller and they as a buyer, we have to look at bringing down certain margins between us to take it forward so that we don’t lose their market-share because some of the products which we — we were quite strong, they have now gone off-patent. So that’s where that little competition is coming in. But moving forward in our baskets, we have couple of products. So at this stage, I will not comment that we will be like what the others are doing at 20%. I wish them the best, but we at the moment which we are at single-digit, we should gradually grow between 12% to 14% and then between 15% to 18%.
Bhavya Gandhi
Okay. Fair enough. Great. Yeah, thank you. You. That’s it from my end.
Operator
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions, please press star and one. Next question is from Ankit Gupta from Bamboo Capital. Please go-ahead.
Ankit Gupta
Good afternoon. Am I audible?
Shalil Shroff
Yeah. Can you talk a little louder?
Ankit Gupta
Sure. Sir, just wanted to understand how much was the forex loss this quarter and you have mentioned that we have — our margins have been impacted by the freight cost this quarter. But if we look at our exports, exports have fallen down significantly in this quarter. So now if you can talk about how much was the forex loss and the freight increase, which impacted our EBITDA margins this quarter?
Shalil Shroff
Yeah. So the total forex loss is close to around 2.3 cc to 2.4cr for the quarter. So we have now put a treasury in-place to ensure that moving forward, we be a little more proactive to ensure that such things don’t come in. And as far as freights are concerned, I mean, gradually freights have gone down, but there are certain freights basically going to Southeast Asia — sorry, the Middle-East because of the geopolitical there that has been impacted. And again here, generally when we talk on freight, we do discuss with the customers. But because of this situation in terms of ensuring that we have the market and we don’t lose the market-share, there is certain freight cost we have absorbed. But moving forward, we don’t feel that will flow in for the next financial year.
Ankit Gupta
Sure, sir. Sir, so we — in this financial year, we’ve seen that the domestic markets have now largely compensated for — or they have compensated for the decline in the exports. How are the margins in the domestic side? Because if you look at our gross margins, we have been able to maintain our gross margins for nine months also. So if you can talk about how are the margins on the domestic side compared to exports.
Shalil Shroff
No, as I said, exports still because of the channel supplies are still getting gradually liquidated and it is happening. So moving forward, we believe that we ourselves during the year also have spent a lot of time to look at the process parameters and ensure if the price will also go down, we have a better efficiency in terms of product. So we believe for the export front, moving forward by Q2, Q3, we should be back to where we were. As far as the domestic market, as Vinod said that the products have just been launched and at that time, we have not — I mean, we have discussed with the customer in terms of taking it gradually to ensure that we do not sell those products because we believe we should be the one or two or three people in the market so that the competition does not increase. But as we gain market share, as we have the confidence as we get those registration, gradually there also we believe that the margin should improve in a good way.
Ankit Gupta
Look, currently, we can assume that the margins on the domestic side are comparatively lower compared to export markets.
Vinod Gupta
No, in current market condition, they are higher than exports. What Mr. Shroff is saying that this new product addition gross margin is higher than exports as on date. But as exports market recovers, those margins will also improve and overall portfolio margin will be as higher than what we are seeing. As a mix, it will be much higher.
Ankit Gupta
Sir, one thing we have witnessed across all the large agrochemical technical manufacturers is that given the pressure on the export market, they have been largely focusing on the domestic market. So does that mean that like the competition in domestic will also increase and that can impact margins for the domestic market as well?
Shalil Shroff
I think it depends on players. I mean, definitely, you know, you could say that what you’re saying could be right. But it depends on the product portfolio and the product which you launch. So that’s where I said that we don’t want to talk a little bit more loud on the domestic side, but we have couple of good products, which we believe should contribute a good percentage towards the product mix and the margin. And your question is, as far as the people, because of the export dense, they are looking at the domestic market that depends on the company to company, how are they placing themselves in terms of the domestic portfolio.
Ankit Gupta
Just one last question on the — on our performance for the top three molecules that we have. So the impact on the exports that we have seen, is it more product-specific or across-the-board, we have seen a decline in the export demands?
Shalil Shroff
Yeah. So among the three products, if we say that we have been because of the supply and the market condition and right, as Vinod also pointed out, and I also told you that right now the supply-chain is getting back into normalization and we believe these the — starting with Q2 — Q3, we should be back at close to around where we were at between 80%, 85% of the product or percentage.
Ankit Gupta
Sure. Thank you. Thank you very much. All the best.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from Viraj Mahadevia from MoneyGrow India. Please go-ahead, sir.
Viraj Mahadevia
Hi, sir. If this question has already been asked, but I noticed this quarter, the tilt towards international has reduced versus domestic. Given the new molecules we are entering into with some key clients overseas. When do you see this to move-in favor of international markets and better margins?
Shalil Shroff
So basically, you please understand that Q3 generally you know post mid-December, things get very quiet because of New Year’s Christmas and other aspects. So — and also as I was — they were talking about some capacity on Lalu where we had certain orders, but that was deferred. So again, please rest assured that the business is there, but it’s just been deferred and especially on the export side because of this Christmas New Year coming in and because of still some product in pipeline, the shipments have been deferred to Q4 and partly to Q1 of next year.
Viraj Mahadevia
Great. Thanks very much. And sir, this is your new products that you are starting commercial supplies after pilot supplies last year?
Shalil Shroff
Correct.
Viraj Mahadevia
Thank you, all the best.
Vinod Gupta
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to participants that you may press star and one to join the question queue. The next question is from Jenam Gilani from Swan Investments. Please go-ahead.
Jenam Gilani
Thanks for the follow-up. So I just have one question. Could you please quantify the one-off expenses for the quarter three as well as nine months?
Shalil Shroff
Sorry, one-off expenses, you’re talking about the foreign-exchange?
Vinod Gupta
Yes, this one-off expenses, this foreign-exchange, which I think Mr, said that was the one that we talked about.
Shalil Shroff
So forex.
Jenam Gilani
And sir, you had all — to the previous participants answer, you had given that almost INR15 crores to INR18 crores for repairs and maintenance was a one-off expense. So that was for the nine months or was it for a certain quarter?
Shalil Shroff
No, no. I think that INR15 crores to INR18 crores had two components, one which basically we are doing for asset renewal and some asset additions. So obviously, asset addition will become part of our balance sheet. But because of asset upgradation, etc., there are expenses which are taking place that those are — some of them are one-time expenses.
Jenam Gilani
So could you please quantify this in terms of value?
Vinod Gupta
I think total — I mean, exactly — yeah, it’s around INR10 crores with that we have incurred the expenses around INR10 crores is what we have incurred as one-time expense on repair and maintenance part.
Jenam Gilani
And this would be over nine months or Q3 itself?
Vinod Gupta
This will be a lot significant amount in Q3, but it’s a total for nine months, but significant amount in Q3.
Jenam Gilani
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions may press star and one.
Next question is from Harsh Beria from Professional Investors. Please go-ahead.
Harsh Beria
Hi, I have a question about the domestic business contribution. So with higher domestic business contribution, how has our working capital evolved and what is our current working capital cycle?
Vinod Gupta
So I think current working capital cycle is part of our presentation that you can see in the presentation.
Shalil Shroff
But I can tell you by and large, generally domestic is anywhere between 60 days to 90 days, but generally, it is 90 days. And we give — I mean, because the customers we have been working with them for many, many years, they are like,, Coca-Cola, Pepsi. So all these just to name few. They have been — they are strong companies. So sometimes the payment comes within 90 days or there is generally overflow of around 10 to 15 days.
Harsh Beria
And what’s the number for exports?
Shalil Shroff
Exports generally are partly any all are between under 160 days.
Harsh Beria
Got it. And the next question is about our new order for our industrial chemical business. So given that we have been running at full capacity for the last few years in Pune, how can we service the demand because the new greenfield will also take at least two, three years to commercialize. So how will we service the new demand that we have got from a new customer?
Vinod Gupta
So what I think we see, this is a new facility even the customer is putting and we are basically jointly getting an in-principle approval and an agreement where we’ll also invest parallelly as they invest in the new facility. So that’s the kind of arrangement we are looking at.
Harsh Beria
And what’s the timeline for commercialization?
Vinod Gupta
It’s something as we indicated, it will be the later part of FY ’26 or early of FY ’27. But this is a very positive development, mainly because some of these companies have decided that they will buy not from China, but from India and that’s where they are expanding capacities in India.
Harsh Beria
Got it. And I think this was also mentioned like a few years back during COVID that they were looking for alternate suppliers. A last question on this is our — I think our scale of operations in this division is maybe INR100 crores INR150 crores. So what kind of scale-up can we see once these the new facility gets commercialized?
Vinod Gupta
I think we probably are looking at doubling our revenue from industrial Chemical business with this — with this initiative and lot more other initiatives on some more product introduction on the Industrial chemical side.
Harsh Beria
Got it. That’s all my questions from my side. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to participants that you may press star and one to join the question queue. The next question is from Riju Dalui from Antique Stock Broking. Please go-ahead.
Riju Dalui
Hello. Thanks for the opportunity. My question regards to the CRAMS division that you have. So the — in the CRAMS division, like do we have mostly in agrochem or it’s a mix of pharma and agrochem?
Hello?
Operator
[Technical Issues]. We seem to have lost the management once again. Please stay connected while we reconnect the management line. We have the management line reconnected. Over to you, sir.
Riju Dalui
Hello?
Shalil Shroff
Sorry for the apology because near our office, there is some major work happening and there is getting this disconnection, but please go-ahead.
Riju Dalui
Yeah, sir. Thanks. So my question was regarding the CRAMS division. So it is mostly agrochem intermediates that we are making or like it’s a mix of pharma and agrochem.
Shalil Shroff
So in the CRAM business is basically out-of-the agro business, which is 60%, 32% is AI, active ingredients which we make. 20% would be ongoing products which were made by Punjab and around 10% are intermediates, which on a gradual level will increase on a year-to-year basis.
Riju Dalui
Okay. So in camps division, so mostly we are into agrochem and agrochem intermediates, right?
Shalil Shroff
Now what also happens is that certain agro intermediates also go both in agro as well as pharma. So we don’t want to top the gun, but there is one intermediate which we make, which goes into agro has a very good application in a specialized product. We don’t want to name that product not want to tell which industry it goes in, but it’s a very promising product for the future for the company.
Riju Dalui
Understood. And your division, so we are mostly making products for the innovator, right? So if we’re making some intermediates or some AI products for the innovator. So if you could roughly tell us about the — like in which stages product that we are making for the innovator? So there might be in number of stages from the innovator perspective. So are we in the early-stage or mid-stage? So what are we positioned as a contact manufacturer?
Shalil Shroff
So basically two products which we make for innovators is already ongoing for many, many years. There is another product which we are under discussion, which is going to happen. And generally on the AI is we made the final active ingredient.
Riju Dalui
Okay so it’s the final active final AI you are making and that will you know goes to innovator?
Shalil Shroff
Sorry. That’s right.
Riju Dalui
Sorry, sir, I could not got your point.
Shalil Shroff
That’s right. Technical product.
Riju Dalui
Okay, okay, okay, okay. Understood. Yeah. So currently like we are having mostly agrochem intermediates and technicals and by year — like maybe by next couple of years, we might look at some opportunity for the pharma intermediates as well. That is correct understanding?
Shalil Shroff
Yeah. So as I said, 40% of our business is Performance Chemicals, which is divided into the industrial, which is the phosphorus chemistry and the balance is into specialty or intermediate, which is ongoing and we are already in discussions with many of the companies. Fortunately, things have now become much better. So things are getting a little bit on fast-track. And that is where to fill those capacities where we have a vision between a long-term between one to three to five years. That’s where we are looking at a new site to ensure that all these products, when, when we are discussing because please understand any pharma intermediate by the time we do it in the lab to — we go commercial is anywhere between 12 months to 14 months in terms of the cycle for them to even get approved.
Riju Dalui
Understood. And the — like the supply that you have talked about earlier for the industrial Chemical segment that force for chemistry. So for a beverage company, so how much is the peak revenue potential in that in that agreement or supply agreement?
Shalil Shroff
The total business of our — the industrial division, we call-IT the phosphoric — the phosphorus division is around 130. And as Vinod did mentioned that moving forward in the next two years, we should look at doubling a little bit more going to around maybe around 300 CR in terms of the different phosphorus compounds which we make.
Riju Dalui
Yeah. So that is one thing, but my question was that like you have signed an agreement without beverage company in Gujarat, you will be supplying this force chemistry. So how much is the peak revenue potential from that business like from that agreement with the company?
Vinod Gupta
We are not going — we don’t want to project any specific number on any specific agreement. We are looking at the phosphorus business holistically and that’s the projection that we are making for ourselves that we want to more than double our revenue from where we are today.
Riju Dalui
Yeah. Yeah, understood. So mostly we would like to double our revenue maybe in next two to three years in this division. So how much will be the — how much is the normalized margin you can expect from this business?
Shalil Shroff
So the acid business which we do the product mix, the margin at the EBITDA is anywhere between 18% to 20%.
Riju Dalui
Understood. Got it. Thank you, sir. This is from my side.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from Rohit Ohri from Progressive Shares PMS. Please go-ahead.
Rohit Ohri
I just want to know about this new talent addition, which is there in the form of M.r Shokla as factory manager, what will be the role that he will be playing in which of the plants will be under him?
Vinod Gupta
So Mr. Shokla has joined us and he is now adding the Lalru plant and his responsibility will be to further look at the new product because you’ve seen that our capacity utilization at Lalru has been low and we have actually identified a lot of products and R&D work and customer approval is already in-place. So he will take care of scaling up of those products and increasing the capacity utilization.
Rohit Ohri
Because if you look at his experience, he has got a big brand with him, which are more focused towards the pharma, maybe Heikal, DRL, Glenmark, and others. So are you focusing or do you intend to make a little bit of a tail or shift in the product mix in terms of agrochem as well as pharma? Should we see a shift in the pie?
Vinod Gupta
Well, I think his expertise, I mean, though he has worked with these pharma names, but the expertise is around operations and the chemistry part and the safety and reliability. Now that’s a common for agro and pharma with some additional requirement for pharma coming in from regulatory standpoint. So what he brings on-table is an excellent experience around operational excellence around product scale-up and for technology transfer. So that’s what basically he brings on-table for our laundry unit.
Rohit Ohri
Yeah. And anything on the replacement for Ashish, if you could share that?
Vinod Gupta
We have started looking for the replacement and as and when will be finalized, I think you will inform the stock exchanges and we’ll come to know about it.
Rohit Ohri
Okay. Thank you for answering my question.
Vinod Gupta
Thank you, Mr. Rohit.
Operator
Thank you very much.
Shalil Shroff
Maybe we can take one or two and then…
Operator
Actually that was the last question in queue.
Shalil Shroff
Okay.
Operator
I would now like to hand the conference back to the management team for closing comments.
Shalil Shroff
So I would like to thank everybody for the time and I hope me and Vinod did satisfy all your replies. But rest assured, Punjab, we have a very strong product portfolio, which is ready. And as far as the chemistry is concerned, products is concerned and over the years, you will see that the EBITDA margins improving gradually, robustically and thank you once again for your support and your time. Thank you. Bye-bye.
Operator
Thank you very much. On behalf of Antique Stock Broking, that concludes the conference. Thank you for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen, you may now disconnect your lines.
Vinod Gupta
Okay. Thank you.