PTC India Limited (NSE: PTC) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 28, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Manoj Kumar Jhawar — Chairman of the Board, Managing Director
Pankaj Goel — Chief Financial Officer, Executive Director
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Suyash Bhawe — Analyst
Vipul Kumar Shah — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
You are now rejoining the main conference ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4 and FY 2024-’25 Post-Earnings Call of PTC India Limited. At this moment, all participants are in the listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. At that time, you may click on the raise hand button on the toolbar or on QA tab on the left-hand side of your panel. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Dr Manoj Kumar Jawar, Chairman and Managing Director of PTC India Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Manoj Kumar Jhawar — Chairman of the Board, Managing Director
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. I extend warm welcome to all of you to our post-earnings call following the announcement of our Q4 results and full-year results for the year ’24-’25. I’m joined today by core members of our management team, which includes Mr Harish Sharan, who is Director of Marketing; then we have Mr Goel, who is ED and CFO. We have Mr Rajiv Malhotra, who is ED and Chief Risk Officer. We also have with us Mr Vikram Singh, who is ED Marketing; and Mr HL, who is Executive Vice-President of Commercial Operations. We are also joined by Mr Ranand Kumar, who is looking after the Investor Relationships and strategic related affairs. So actually, this call gives us an opportunity to share the key insights into our company’s performance and the long-term vision.
We deeply value this engagement and with our team stakeholders, we wish to take it forward. During the year ’24, ’25, we achieved a trading volume of 82.75 billion units, marking an 11% year-on-year growth, which is credible given that the power supply in the country has grown barely by around 5.21%. So trading has increased more in comparison to the power supply. Secondly, this was achieved while maintaining the trading margin up INR30 — INR3.37 per unit. So because of this, we were able to earn more from our trading operations business in comparison to previous year. The numbers will be shared by the finance notably, 51% of the trading volume came from exchange-added products, so which again confirms the broad trajectory wherein the market is slowly migrating towards the products, harm bilateral products. Improved margin realization has contributed to almost an 11% increase in the trading income.
Nationally, electricity generation rose by 5.21% during the year to reach 1,829 million units. The renewable energy was a key driver, which grew about 13% over previous year and now accounts for nearly 14% of the total energy mix. This is very, very remarkable energy transition, which is taking place in the country. Within the renewable segment also, the solar energy contributed almost 56%, which was only 51% previous year. So this also indicates the clip at which the rate at which the solar energy installations are growing in the country. We anticipate that this share of solar energy and battery coupled supply will continue to grow and which is supported by declining cost of energy storage solution as well as the benign policy atmosphere. In alignment with this trend to shift — shift trend of shift to renewable energy, we have floated an invitation for expression of interest for 500 megawatts of renewable capacity.
The response to this EUI has been encouraging and our team is currently actively engaging with various project developers to finalize purchase and sale arrangements at competitive rates. In the cross-border markets, our operations continue across all the three grid connected neighboring countries, which is Bhutan, Nepal and Bangladesh. Energy flows to Bangladesh remain stable under agrid contractual framework with a regular flow of payments also to our accounts. Bhutan is experiencing rising year-round electricity demand, especially during the winter months when water availability declines. To address this, we have signed a fresh agreement for supply of 2000 megawatt power — export of power to Bhutan during winter season. This power shall be scheduled only as per the need indicated by them.
Similarly, Nepal also, we have commenced both import and export of electricity based on their supply-demand profiles. In Q4 ’25, we successfully completed the divestment of our subsidiary, PTC Energy Limited, which has been held up since long and we have been in the process of completing the transaction for almost one and a half year. So on March 4, ’25, PTC’s stake in PEL was transferred to NGC Green Limited for a total consideration of INR1,175 crores. Our Board has declared a final dividend of INR6.70 per share for the financial year, which brings the total dividend for the FY ’24-’25 to INR1175 per share. This includes the interim dividend of INR5 per share, which was declared previously. Looking ahead, we expect power demand to grow steadily at 6% to 8% annually, although short-term volatility may arise due to transient weather conditions. A favorable monsoon is expected to support this outlook. Government of India is — India’s ongoing emphasis on renewable energy, including draft REIA guidelines for inclusion of traders and new bidding schemes for battery energy storage systems and pump storage systems is expected to significantly shape the future supply landscape.
The Government of India has projected the need for 74 gigawatt of the battery energy storage systems and pump storage projects to support the renewables integration into the grid. The guidelines for PSP-based power will further accelerate the adoption of storage in the energy basket. Regulatory bodies are also actively fostering the market, including discussions on virtual power plants, standardization of power exchange products and also the futures market to enable a level-playing field among exchanges, traders and OTC platforms. We are pleased to inform you that all the issues leading to qualification by the auditors in both the standalone and consolidated financial statements of the company have now been resolved. You may recall that the qualifications were related primarily to legacy matters in the PTC Financial Services Limited. We have put in adequate checks and balances in the place to avoid recurrence of such issues. Additionally, the Board of Company has approved business responsibility and sustainability reporting policies, which are now available on the company’s website. I now invite our Executive Director and CFO, Mr Pankaj Goyal, to present the financial highlights for the quarter. Following this presentation, we will be open the floor for question-and-answer session. Thank you once again for your continued trust and support. We appreciate your participation in today’s call. Thank you.
Pankaj Goel — Chief Financial Officer, Executive Director
Thank you,, sir. Good evening to all. Now I will go through the financial performance of PTC India Limited for the quarter ended March ’25 and year ended March ’25 on a standalone and consolidated basis. First, I will go through the standalone results of PTC India for the quarter March ’25. Volume has increased by 5% to 19 billion unit from 18 billion unit. Volume has mainly increased due to our short-term trade and exchange and the margin has also increased to 3.17 per unit in comparison to 2.94 unit during the last quarter on the — mainly on the exchange and long-term transactions. Total operational income has also — total operational income has decreased by 22% to INR151 crore from INR193 crore. The operational income has — although the trading margin has increased, but the total operational income has gone down primarily because of the reduction in the surcharge income. However, the surcharge income has increased by 50% during the last year. Profit before-tax has increased by 439% to INR608 crore from INR113 crore.
As you are all aware that there is an exceptional item in our results in this quarter because we have booked the profit of profit on PTC Energy disinvestment of around INR521 crore during the quarter. So even if we take-out this exceptional item of INR521 crore, the profit before-tax is INR86 crore as against INR113 crore during the last quarter. Profit-after-tax has increased by 529% to INR521 crores from INR83 crore. After taking out the PTC Energy disinvestment, our profit-after-tax has been INR64 crore as against INR83 crore during During the last quarter. Total likewise total comprehensive income has increased by 1,716% to INR516 crores from INR28 crore. This phenomenal increase because of this that during the last quarter, we have taken reduction in value of our fair-value in Pistar by INR55 crore and during the current quarter, only INR6 crore has taken as reduction only. So because of this comprehensive income has gone up substantially. The earning per share for the quarter stood at INR17.61 in comparison to INR2.8 during the last quarter. If we take-out the profit from PLD’s investment, our EPS stand at INR2.16 in comparison to INR2.8 during the last quarter. Now I will go through the annual results for the standalone basis. The volume has increased by 11% to 82.8 billion unit from 74.8 billion unit. Total operational income has increased by 17% to INR718 crore from INR616 crores. The income — the total operational income has mainly increased because of the increase in our surcharge income and trading margin also and plus the — as I’ve already explained, the profit on PL disinvestment. Profit before-tax has also increased by 118% to INR1,056 crore from INR484 crore. If we take-out this profit on PEL disinvestment, so our profit before-tax has increased by 10% to INR535 crore as against INR484 crores during the last year. Profit-after-tax has increased by 132% to INR855 crore from INR369 crore. If we take-out PL disinvestment, our profit-after-tax has increased by 8% to INR397 crores as against INR369 crores. Total comprehensive income has increased by 245% to INR850 crore from INR247 crore. So with this, I have already explained that this is because of the reduction in our fair-value during the last year, wherein we have taken a reduction of INR122 crore in our fair-value of. So because of this comprehensive income has increased. Earning per share for the year stood at INR28.88 as compared to INR12.47 in comparison to last year. If we take-out PL disinvestment, our EPS stand at INR13.42 in comparison to INR12.47 during the last year. Now I’ll go through the quarterly consolidated results. Volume has increased by 5% to 19.1 billion unit from 18.1 billion units. Profit before-tax has increased by 255% to INR467 crore from INR132 crore. If we take-out the PL this investment, so our profit before-tax on a consolidated basis has increased by 23% to INR161 crore from INR132 crores. Profit-after-tax on a totality basis has increased by 308% to INR372 crore from INR91 crore. If we take-out PLD’s investment, our profit-after-tax has increased by 43% to INR130 crore from INR91 crores. Our total other comprehensive income has increased by 900% to INR366 crore from INR37 crore, the reason of increase in comprehensive income I have already explained due to a reduction in the fair-value during the last year. Our earning per share for the quarter stood at INR11.88 in comparison to INR2.9 rupees during the last quarter. Now I will go through the annual results on a consolidated basis. Volume has increased by 10% to 83.3 billion unit from 75.4 billion unit. Profit before-tax has increased by 71% to INR1,117 crore from INR64 crores. If we take-out the PL disinvestment, it has the increased by 24% to INR811 crore from INR654 crore. Profit-after-tax has increased by 83% to INR976 crores from INR533 crore. Profit-after-tax excluding the PLDC investment has increased by 38% to INR735 crores from INR533 crores. Total other comprehensive income has increased by 137% to INR969 crore from INR410 crore. Earnings per share for the year stood at INR30.4 in comparison to INR16.11. If we take-out the PLD’s investment, our EPS stand at INR22.24 rupees in comparison to INR16.1. Thank you.
Operator
Should we begin with the question-and-answer session?
Pankaj Goel — Chief Financial Officer, Executive Director
Yes.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question-and-answer session. To ask a question, please click on the raise hand button on the toolbar or on the Q&A tab on the panel and click on Raise hand button. The operator will announce your name when it is your turn to ask a question. Please accept the prompt on your screen and unmute your microphone while proceeding with your question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
We have one text question from Lipika Kundu.
Unidentified Participant
As per dividend policy, 50% of standalone EPS is to be distributed, which works out to be INR14.42 per share. Why only INR11.70 was declared. Please clarify.
Pankaj Goel
The dividend policy also I will clearly measures an exception. We must understand that this year’s exceptional profit was because of one exceptional item, which was like disinvestment of the PEL. Now definitely more dividend can always be declared, but management believes that retaining this capital and investing it into the profitable ventures for future growth of the company is equally important. So currently, management after discussing and debating the issue, proposed this dividend which was accepted by the Board of Directors also.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you.
Operator
We have one more text question from Rahul Kay, an individual investor.
Unidentified Participant
How do we calculate the trading margin? Also, what is the reason for reduction in core operating revenue, excluding surcharge income.
Pankaj Goel
If we exclude the surcharge income, then our core margin has not gone down and our core operating — operating income has also not gone down if you look at the results and the numbers which were shared by currently. Now as to the methodology, a calculation of the margin is a simple thing because it is always mentioned in the context and it varies from contact to contract. So whenever we are entering into a contract, we based on the risk profile and the tenure and other considerations and the market situation, decide as to what kind of margins we shall be talking taking and that is how it is decided. So the number which are finally reported into the accounts is the aggregation and amalgamation of all numbers put together.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen to ask a live question please click on the Q&A tab on the panel and click on button we have few text questions I’ll read those. We have a question from Sachin Gamre from Investment.
Unidentified Participant
What is the contribution of PFS in the total consolidated profit of the company
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
I will ask Pankash to respond to
Pankaj Goel
Yeah, so profit-after-tax from PFS for the quarter is INR58 crore as against INR13 crore during the last quarter. And on a — on a yearly basis, the PFS contribution was INR217 crore as comparison to INR160 crore during the last year.
Unidentified Participant
The second question is why PFS has not declared the dividend in-spite of this being reported in exchange filing?
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
I think this question should be addressed to the PFS management himself, which is a listed entity. The Board of Directors of the Board of the directors of the PFS decided that it will be in the best interest of the company not to declare the dividend at this point of time.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you. The next question is where in the value chain PFS fits in the company overall strategy?
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
When we started PFS, the vision was that it will act as collaborating unit, let us say, because we are — we were into the power trading business and we were seeing that the sector is capital is started. So that was the idea at that point of time, people were not really willing and forthcoming to extend credit to long-duration and long gestation power sector projects. So there was a market and there was an opportunity. That was the idea of creation of the PFS at that point of time. Now the PFS has gone through ups and downs and that story is well-known . At a later-stage, what is to be done about the PFS and whether it continues to remain a good fit for our overall marketing strategy. These issues are the issues of strategy and policy. We keep on discussing these issues within the Board, but whenever we take any call, we shall be definitely in informing the investing public and all our stakeholders.
Operator
Thank. We have a live question from an individual investor. Please go-ahead with your question
Unidentified Participant
I’m holding 11,000 shares in PTC India, sir and I invested in this company only because the company will concentrate on core business. Many times, I ask the same question repeatedly. And you had given the answer about the divestment of PFS. You had given the answer that after the divestment of PTC India Energy Limited, we will take initiative of the divestment of the India Financial Services. And now the divestment of British Energy Limited is completed, sir. And what initiative will start? See, I want the genuine answer for this because I’m the serious investor in British India sir.
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Sir, number-one, I really appreciate you being associated with us and you — I mean being a serious investor into this company. I expect that this relationship will continue and grow, number-one. Number two, regarding the divestment of PFS. Again, I’ll have to say that this matter has to be considered by the Board considering all aspects. You must understand also that PEL this investment was comparatively simple procedure because no other regulator except the market regulator, which is SEBI was actually are the ROC. And we had to, I mean, take into consideration as to whatever guidelines are there from these two institutions
But in case of PFS also, this is a non-banking finance company. So there are many other guidelines which are also applicable and RBI approvals, etc., also required whatever kind of decision is taken regarding investment, disinvestment, increasing the stakes, decreasing the stakes and so many, so on and so forth. So I think this is going to be a process in which multiple levels of consultations with so many stakeholders are required. So straightforward answer as to when it will be done, will it be done, not done? All those things are under consideration. Whenever we have something really to declare to the market, we shall be coming out. But yes, we will also look at whether it is a good strategic fit RPTC’s core business or not. So those things are being considered by the Board and hopefully, we will have more clarity as we go-forward.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, the divestment of AFS is on your line of — on your line of way, not sir.
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Earlier PTC Board had — I mean, expressed a desire that we should be divesting our stake in PFS at a later-stage that decision was put on-hold. Now again, this decision has to be considered by the PTC Board. This is what I can develop as of now.
Unidentified Participant
No, sorry, since four, five quarters, you are answering the same, sir. When you will start to discuss about this. Sir
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
, sir, four, five quarters earlier also, I had said that at that point of time, PLDC was our prime goal. I think after a lot of efforts, we were successfully able to close that deal and now again we are discussing various strategic options. So I really cannot give you a straightforward yes or no in this forum at this point of time.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take our next question from Suresh, an Individual Investor. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Good evening, everybody. I just want to ask you one thing that after the sell-off to ONGC, your — has the debt-to-equity will be drastically improved? And second thing is — second question is that having sold this unit, again, you are entering the same with the Bhutan. So what is the strategy, if you can high — if you can explain in this particular aspect? Thank you,
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Okay, right, sir, there are two issues. Number-one, regarding the debt-to-equity ratio. So let me assure you practically our company is already a debt-free company. So whatever little debt we take, it is in the due course of normal business whenever we have made certain investment in the FTs and all of a sudden some payments are required to be made. So we’ll draw ODA facilities from the bank and they might be reported as loan. But other than that, there is no medium-term or long-term loan on the books of PTC. So our company is already debt-free company and that answers your question regarding debt-equity ratio. That is one thing.
Second thing, I mean, you are asking me as to why we have divested and if we have divested our renewable assets, then why I mean again think about going into the same market. So I mean, look at this. This is how trade happens. This is how business is done. When you see a good value in a deal, you conclude it, when you see another good value in a deal, which may create a long-term good cash flows, again, we will consider. So if we are trying to look at some renewal assets again, so it does not mean that I mean once we have sold a renewable asset, we will never acquire another renewable asset. We’ll continue to do so. And again after acquisition, if we see a good deal that it can be sold. So we will do that also. So that is part of the strategy. Having said that, Bhutan is a very, very stable and administratively culturally very friendly geography to put some investments into it. And they have got a great potential in hydro assets.
We are also looking at some investments in the solar assets. So we keep on discussing with them because we have an ongoing business relationship with them. So I hope that explains
Operator
Mr Karmath, does that answer your question
Unidentified Participant
Very much.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take our next question from Krishna Kumar, a retail investor. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Good evening, sir. You said that you are retaining some of the cash for future growth. What exactly are your plans for future growth? How much you will be investing into the deal or other deals, which is — are you going to create the new subsidiaries or what are the plans for that cash utilization.
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Right now, I mean, discussions are going on with many counterparties on many different initiatives. So definitely, I cannot give you as to how this capital allocation is going to look like. But yes, we are trying to do multiple things and one of those things is acquisition of some renewable energy assets either within the country or in some friendly geographies. But right now, unless and until we have concluded the deal, it will not be right for me to speak more on this at this point of time.
Unidentified Participant
So will you be taking debt or it will be only within the cash because you will also need money for the working capital.
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
No, no, what — I’m sorry, I could not follow you.
Unidentified Participant
No, like will you be taking loans for to invest into these because you will also need money for the working capital. So
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Yeah, yeah, actually, you see, there are two things the investment size would decide many things. If we are able to, I mean, fund it from the internal resources, so be it if you are able to find a partner who is equally keen equity investor in those projects, then maybe we will not need — if we need, then also we’ll look into it. We are exploring the opportunities and at this point of time, it is difficult to say how much will be going to be loan, how much will be going to be equity. But it will be a prudent, let me show you that. We’ll be very, very careful about the investments.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And one question about the consultancy. And earlier you have been saying that consultancy will be a good part of business. We are planning to grow to INR100 crore. So where are we on that objective?
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
There has been a little bit setback on the growth of the consultancy division, let me be very honest. There have been two adverse developments. Number-one, two, we have been trying to close the contacts with the ESL in which the payments are stuck-up and we are into discussions with them as to how to realize whatever bills we have already raised. So because of that, we have scaled down that segment of the The consultancy business. Secondly, because a lot of consultancy work was being funded directly or indirectly through US aid. Now that funding has dried up because of that a lot many projects people have people are looking to shortload those projects. So because of that also it has had some impact on the consultancy business. But at the same time, there are many new areas where we really can grow. One of them is maybe smart metering EV. So basically, we are looking at the opportunities, the evolving landscape and definitely we’ll try to grow this segment. Of course, our results this year have not been to our lagging.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And finally, what is the status on the receivable from Bangladesh? I mean, the businesses, as usual are getting
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Very, very comfortable, sir, very, very comfortable. Earlier, we were a little bit worried, but now there is no reason to be worried. The receivable portion from Bangladesh is very, very comfortable, not more than two months outstanding. Earlier it was almost six months, sir. Pangash, can you give the numbers?
Pankaj Goel
Yeah. So the receivable from Bangladesh is presently only INR577 crore.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take our next question from Suyash Bhawe from Wealth Guardian. Please go-ahead.
Suyash Bhawe
Yeah, am I audible?
Operator
Yes. Please go-ahead.
Suyash Bhawe
Yeah. Sir, I wanted a performance update on HPX regarding volumes, revenues and profits for Q4 as well as FY ’25. And additionally, more from a strategic perspective, we are 5% plus holder, 22% holder in HPX. Are we looking at bringing in any strategic investment to maybe reduce our stake below 5%, so maybe we might be able to trade on HPX as well as in — how are we looking at it from that perspective?
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
You are right that we cannot trade on that exchange unless and until we have brought down our equity to the 5%. So basically, we have started discussions as to can there be a guided and gradual roadmap for reduction of our equity provided that we are allowed trading. So we have started discussions along those lines with regulators as and I mean when we will divest would be a car to be taken considering the evolving market situation. But as of now, we are holding this equity and we wish that we be allowed trading. If need arises, we can give a gradual road-map or reduction of our equity holding. But can there be a working arrangement in which the ownership and the trading are compartmentalized to the liking of the regulators. Can it be done? Is the discussion?
Suyash Bhawe
Okay, sir. And maybe the revenue and profit numbers for Q4 as well as full-year if those HPX?
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Yes, of HPA. Okay, please Pank.
Suyash Bhawe
Yeah. The revenue number for the quarter for HPAs is INR7.69 crore vis-a-vis INR8.99 crore during the quarter. It has gone down actually. And the profit-after-tax for the quarter — current quarter is 2.28 in comparison to INR5.01 crore during the last quarter. And on yearly basis, the revenue from operation has come down from INR36.46 crore to INR31.44 crore and the profit-after-tax has come down from INR14.93 crore to INR10.67 crores 10.67 so what would be the reason for this drop basically only 10 segment business is coming to the HPX. The collective segment, which is the DAM and the RTM and which is the dominant segment in power exchange. So those volumes are not coming either to HPX or to PXI because of the obvious reasons of network effect. So the collective segment volumes are the real key driver of the growth.
Other than that, it is a very small market, a fridge market. So unless and until we trade on RMHPX and there is market coupling so that anyone can choose an exchange of his own choice. Unless these two things happen, the collective segment is difficult to grow because of that we are seeing these numbers.
Okay. Okay, sir. Understood. Sir, I have one more question. In the last call you had said something about the government of India not allowing power traders into the long-term PPA contracts and there not being domestic opportunities in the long-term. So can you explain this a bit as in what — how this policy has come about to be? And is there any chance of this getting reversed of what probably could be the considerations — policy considerations for this to be the policy of the government of India. So maybe insight on that.
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
As a trader, our perspective is these that trader should be allowed in our products and there should not be any policy related prohibition, but that is our view. What is the view of the Government of India when they came out with the guidelines for long-term procurement of the power. So when they prescribe those standard bidding documents, the trader was specifically from bidding. So whenever there is a discount which is following the SBD and seeking long-term sourcing of power. So they have to utilize that SBD and in that SBD, the trader is not allowed, only generators are allowed to bid. So that is how the situation has come across that trader cannot participate in the future biddings for the long-term context. There is only one exception and debt exception is the RE projects. Are the RE projects, the day-one guidelines provide for INR7 per unit margin to the intermediary procurr.
But then again that intermediary procur is designated by the government and that designation has been given to only four government-owned CPSUs. So in effect, no private trader currently can bid for any long-term contract. That is the situation
Suyash Bhawe
Understood, sir. Are there any industry efforts as and if you would be aware of or maybe industry efforts to regarding lobbying for this or is the industry taking any stance on this?
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
You see actually long-term power market still is far from being a competition and driven market. The original guidelines and the tariff policy, if you study them, it would say that gradually we should move procurement of power on Section 63 that is the competitive tariff-based competitive bidding basis. But still whatever thermal is being added by at least CPSUs. So it is on the nomination basis under Section 62. So I think it is an interplay of many things, the capacity, the availability of capital, the overall dynamics of the power market, the goals of the government, what kind of capacity addition they want, what kind of assurances they want to give to the investors. I think it is a combination of so many things.
But particularly speaking, I do not know of any traders I mean body forcefully taking up this issue with the government in the industry meeting etc. these points are raised but I do not see a convergence of use.
Suyash Bhawe
Okay, sir. Understood. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take our next live question from Vipul Kumar Shah from Sumangal Investments. Please go-ahead.
Vipul Kumar Shah
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my question is, since majority of the trading is happening through exchanges, so why would a buyer come through us they can trade through exchanges. So what is the rationale for a buyer to do trading through PTC? Would you please explain it? Thank you.
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
There are two things which trader provide. Number-one, 24×7 operational support, because if a trader wants to do the trading by himself and if he requires electricity to be traded during 24 hours of a day. So either he would himself have to set-up a trading desk and then do the trading by himself or he can avail the services of a trader like us who are running a 24×7 operations control room to assist the trading partners. That is one reason that people want to avoid debt and debt expenditure. Second thing, we also looking To the credit profile of the buyer or the seller, the counterparty, we can provide them credit support also. In a manner of speaking, it would be called trade financing. So if some discount wants to schedule the power and buy the power from the exchange, but currently facing some liquidity issues. So they will come to us, we will fund that trade for a while at a later-stage, we will recover that money from concerned counterparty. So that is the second service which we provide. Of course, we also assist with the market intelligence. So that is the third service which a trader can provide. Theoretically speaking, everything can be done by a buyer or a seller, but I think these are difficulty skills and the acquisition of these skills and continuously maintaining that capability is not easy.
Vipul Kumar Shah
So five years down the line, do you expect 80%, 90% of the volume to move to be routed through exchanges?
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Absolutely not. Actually, you see the overall power market in the country, if we say it is 2,50,000 megawatt, almost 35% is the long-term contracts, which never go to any exchange or any intermediary whatsoever, except the previously alloted long-term contracts. So gradually when they expire also, there will be direct bilateral contracts and there will be no role for exchanges for management of that trade. Unless and until some policy initiative comes like FC market or some big policy announcement comes from the government. I don’t see that long-term volume is going to be done through the exchanges.
In any case, exchanges do not have a product for giving supply for more than three months currently. So anything about three months is not going to come through the exchanges. Now if you ask me from a buyer’s perspective, even though his requirement will be long-term, can he manage his operations by going for the shorter-duration contracts of three months and continuously do it over a very, very long period of time. I think no one would like to take that kind of risk. So people would — who are having a long-term need for power would want to have a long-term source also. So both things will co-exist. But yes, the short-term bilateral market is definitely migrating towards the exchanges. That is a truth.
Vipul Kumar Shah
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take our next question from Anuj from Tijori Finance. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello, sir. I’m audible?
Operator
Yes. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. So the question was regarding Bangladesh, which has already answered it. So can you reiterate the number that outstanding dues from Bangladesh?
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
INR577 crores.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. So as the redue — as the dues are getting reduced from INR559 crores, which was last year.
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Yeah, I’ll tell you the — I’ll tell you the last year number also. In the last year, the Bangladesh outstanding was INR700 crores. So from INR700 crore, it has gone down to INR577 crores. At the current situation is still better. We have further reduced the liabilities after 31st March.
Unidentified Participant
So our business is in same intact with the Banglades India.
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Business has grown. The volume has grown.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay, sir. Okay. So this is good thing, sir. Thank you, sir. That’s it.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take our next question from Rahul Khe, an Individual Investor. Please go-ahead. Rahul, please unmute your microphone and go-ahead with your question. Rahul since there is no response we’ll take the next question from Vipul Kumar Shah from Sumangal Investments. Please go-ahead.
Vipul Kumar Shah
Thanks for the opportunity again. Sir, views of Bangladesh are covered under bilateral government agreement or means how it works.
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
It is a commercial content, but it is guaranteed by — I mean guaranteed by guarantee of government of Bangladesh.
Vipul Kumar Shah
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have few text questions. This is a question from Darshika Khemka from EV Fincorp.
Unidentified Participant
Could you give the number of net rebate for the quarter and the year?
Pankaj Goel
Yeah. Net rebate for the quarter is INR20.46 crores and for the year, it is INR120 crore.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from Diraj Kripalani from Avendus Spark.
Unidentified Participant
What are the margins for short-term trades, medium-term trades and long-term trades separately for the 4th-quarter and full-year FY ’25?
Pankaj Goel
Yeah. For short-term trade, the margin per unit was 1.03 pesa for the quarter and for medium-term trade, it is 1.63. For long-term trade, it is 7.99 per unit.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from, a shareholder.
Unidentified Participant
Can we plan for buyback of PTC India and we received money from Bangladesh?
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
I follow this. Bangladesh connection
Pankaj Goel
Two questions. First is, can we plan for a buyback of PTC India?
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Okay. So I think buyback of the shares is currently not tax-friendly. So no one is now going for a buyback. So I hope that answers because there is a very, very unfriendly tax treatment of the transaction in the hands of the recipient, which is the shareholder. So buyback is definitely not planned as of now, no. What is your second question?
Unidentified Participant
And the second question sir, have we received the money from Bangladesh?
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
So that has is already been answer.
Operator
Okay, sir. Thank you. I’ll take the next text question from Amit Kumar.
Unidentified Participant
The core business continues to do well, but FY ’25 financials were strongly supported by surcharge income. So what is the outlook for the surcharge income in FY ’26? Is the FY ’25 level of surcharge income sustainable in FY ’26?
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
There would be a little bit volatility — volatility, a little bit cyclicity, but given the — I mean problems of the discount, many of them really find it hard to make payment then they really need the power and when they need the power, I mean, there is always a cyclicity as to when they put in-the-money to buy more power to meet the growing demand during a particular season and when they will receive that money through their operations and rely that cash and that cash will accrue to them for making the payment of that power. So there is definitely a need to finance that particular portion of their short-term liquidity issues and we are well-poised to meet that demand.
So overall speaking, I hope this to continue.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take a live question from Rajiv Agrawal from Sterling Capital. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Oh, sir, I want to understand why the revenue from operations has declined this quarter in standalone reserves?
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Actually, this decline was more — because of reduction of surcharge income for the quarter. So Pankaj would have the number, but the operating margin we have increased. But as I said, there would always be a cyclicity regarding the surcharge income. Sometimes depending on the liquidity of the counterparty discounts if they are making lump-sum payments, which in current case it had happened that Jammun Kashmir Government had made a payment of significant sum.
So because of that, the surcharge income which had accrued in the previous year same quarter previous year did not materialize this quarter.
Unidentified Participant
So, but the surcharge income part of. But the surcharge income you show in other operating revenue as per Note 6 of your standalone results
Pankaj Goel
Yeah, but the Chairman has replied regarding the other operating revenue. As your question is regarding, I suppose is for the top-line actually. So first of all, yeah, first of all, the top-line does not matter to us because the — what top-line consists of, let’s say we have told — I’m giving you an example, let us say we have sold 100 million units and the price per unit is, let’s say, INR3 during the last year. But now suppose, for example, the price reduced to INR2.5 during this year. And even though we have sold 100 units during both the years, but if there is a variation in sale and purchase price in the market, which do not affect us actually to the, we have taken the power at INR3, we will add our margin into it and Then we will sell it to that INR3.05 or something like this. So the top of the revenue is basically related to sale and purchase price discovered in the market. So it does not affect our profit and loss account, but if you are saying so that let’s say our — the total revenue from operation has gone down. So it means the price of the electricity has gone down on an average basis during the last year.
Unidentified Participant
So why has the price of electricity has gone down this quarter? I’m asking just to understand why understand the operations for the company.
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Yeah, yeah. So there is always a cyclicity and weather-affected phenomenon. If you look at the weather, I mean extreme heat or extreme cold, those two kind of events would I mean lead to higher consumption of electricity, higher demand for electricity. And if the rains are equally spreads out, there are no long-duration heat wave days or there are no long-duration cold wave days and rain cycle is spread-out, then definitely it affects the demand. So number-one is the demand part of it, which is affected by the weather patterns as well as the growing nature of the economy, which leads to overall increase in the consumption of electricity.
Second thing is the supply-side. So from the supply-side, what has been happening that the capacity addition in the renewable segment has been very, very fast. Because of that I mean the demand has been benign and the supply-side has been very good. So the demand-supply equation equilibrium in the market plays out and that leads to pressure on the prices, higher trades on the exchange. Long-term trades are not affected by them and which is almost 85% of the overall market. But the remaining trade which are the short-term trade and the exchange base trade, the — that effect is reflected.
Unidentified Participant
And sir, so what was the volume loss traded last call last quarter and this quarter, can you share the figures?
Pankaj Goel
Yeah, yeah. So this quarter we have traded 19 million unit and during the last quarter, we have traded around 18 million unit.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay. And income you show income whenever you realize you entirely show it in other operating lines.
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Yeah. I’m sorry, actually I misread your question. Panka just clarified.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank. We’ll take the last three questions. There’s a question from Suyash from Wealth Guardian.
Unidentified Participant
What are quarterly and annual numbers for net surcharge?
Pankaj Goel
Yeah, just the net surcharge for the quarter is INR54 crore and for the year it is INR267 crore.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from Vipul Kumar Shah from Sumangal Investments.
Vipul Kumar Shah
Since majority of trading is rooted through exchanges, why buyers will root transaction through you? They can trade directly through exchanges.
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
We have already answered the question.
Operator
Okay, sir. Thank you. Next question is from Rahul K.
Unidentified Participant
What is the logic of re-entering renewable space just after the PEL sale given valuations are elevated in this sector? Also with discoms seeing better financial health, will our working capital reduce?
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Two things. Regarding the investment and the disinvestment, I think that question is already answered. And regarding the discounts overall health, it is a mixed bag. Some are improving, some are not.
Operator
Thank you, sir. That was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Dr Manoj Kumar Jawal for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Manoj Kumar Jhawar
Thank you very much, shareholders. Your questions were really, I mean, insightful and I really appreciate your engagement with the company. I look-forward that you remain with the company for a very long-duration. I think by remaining invested in this company, up till now, you must-have been happy investor. Our overall returns have been in the range of 18% CAGR if you look at the growth in the share prices as well as the dividend which we have been paying. So we hope to do well in coming — coming years also, and we hope that you remain associated with us. Thank you so much. T
Operator
Hank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of PTC India Limited, that concludes today’s session. Thank you for your participation. You may now click on the exit meeting to disconnect thank you