Prince Pipes and Fittings Ltd (NSE: PRINCEPIPE) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 22, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Parag Chheda — Joint Managing Director
Anand Gupta — Chief Financial Officer
Nihar Chheda — Vice President Strategy
Analysts:
Sumeet Khaitan — Analyst
Nigel Mascarenhas — Analyst
Shravan Shah — Analyst
Praveen Sahay — Analyst
Keshav Lahoti — Analyst
Pritesh Chheda — Analyst
Utkarsh Nopany — Analyst
Sneha Talreja — Analyst
Arun Baid — Analyst
Moksh Ranka — Analyst
Udit Gajiwala — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Good day and welcome to the Q4 and FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call of Prince Pipes and Fittings Limited hosted by MUFG In Time. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr Sumit Khetan from MEFG In Time. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Sumeet Khaitan — Analyst
I’m audible?
Operator
Yes, sir.
Sumeet Khaitan — Analyst
Yeah. So good morning, everyone. I welcome you all to the earnings conference call to discuss Q4 and FY ’25 results of Prince Pipes &ootings Limited. To discuss the results, we have from the management, Mr Parak Chheda, Joint Managing Director; Mr Nihad Cheda, Vice-President Strategy; and Mr Anand Gupta, Chief Financial Officer. They will take you through the results and the business performance, after which we will proceed for question-and-answer session.
Before we proceed with the call, I would like to mention that some of the statements made in the today’s call may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. For more details kindly refer to investor presentation and the other filings that can be found on the company’s website.
With this, I now hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks. Over to you, sir.
Parag Chheda — Joint Managing Director
Thank you, Sumit. Good morning all, and thank you for joining us for our quarter-four and FY ’25 financial results. The presentation and the press release have been issued to the stock exchanges and uploaded on our website. I hope everyone — everyone has been able to go through the same.
The PVC pipe industry navigated a challenging macroeconomic environment during the year marked by muted demand across key end-user segments. Furthermore, subdued government spendings in infrastructure and allied sectors led to demand softening and inventory destocking by channel partners in major markets. These challenges were compounded by high volatility in PVC resin prices impacting both volumes and margins across the sector. Despite this uncertainty, our company remained focused on reinforcing its operational capabilities and executing long-term strategic priorities.
A key highlight of the quarter was the successful commissioning of Phase-1 at our new manufacturing facility in, Bihar. Designed for a total installed capacity of approximately 60,000 metric tonnes per annum, the plant has begun operations with the initial capacity of 24,000 metric tonnes per annum. With this addition, our total installed capacity has increased to 397,500 metric tons per annum. We are also undertaking timely capital expenditure across our existing facilities to support future growth.
The balanced capacity at is expected to be commissioned with full capacity within the next six months. Strategically located this plant enhances our ability to efficiently serve the growth market, the growing market in Eastern India by reducing lead times, improving responsiveness and optimizing logistics costs.
In our bathware segment, Aqual, we continue to strengthen our retail footprint across key urban and semi-urban markets. During the quarter, we expanded our presence with new showrooms in Uttar Pradesh and Rajasthan, adding to our existing outlets in Goa, Jaipur and Pune. With over 200 retail touch points across India, we are steadily building a robust distribution network and enhancing brand recall in the high-potential value-added segment. We believe the bathware category will serve as a complementary growth driver to our core piping business and contribute meaningfully to revenues in the medium-term.
As part of our brand visibility strategy, we are actively expanding our presence across key travel corridors to connect with consumers on-the-move. We have collaborated with Indian Railways for branding on trains, enhancing our presence on one of our India’s most prestigious rail networks. Additionally, we are proud to announce our association with the Toy Train, a UNESCO World Heritage site further strengthening our brands visibility at iconic high footfall locations. Such initiatives ensure that wherever our consumers travel, Prince pipes remain a consistent part of their journey.
In a significant sustainability milestone, we are proud to share that our CPVC product range is now officially Green Pro certified by the — by the Confederation of Indian Industry. This certification underscores our commitment to providing sustainable high-performance piping solutions and brings notable environmental, economic and market advantages to our customers. Such certifications will help us become a preferred brand amongst the brands in the B2B project segment.
On the innovation front, we introduced a new range of septic tanks under the brand Biofit for efficient waste water management. Designed to support safe, affluent disposal through soak pits or dispersion trenches, these tanks promote natural filtration and purification helping safeguard groundwater. This eco-friendly product aligns with our commitment to sustainable infrastructure solutions. Looking ahead, we remain focused on geographical expansion, product innovation and operational efficiency to drive growth.
With early signs of recovery in infrastructure and construction activity, we are cautiously optimistic about demand revival. We continue to monitor PVC resin prices closely and are implementing proactive procurement and inventory strategies to mitigate volatility. In conclusion, despite external headwinds, we are confident that our strong fundamentals, diversified product portfolio and customer-centric approach position us well for sustained long-term growth. Thank you for your time.
I will now hand it over to our CFO, Mr Anand Gupta to take you through the key financial highlights.
Anand Gupta — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you, Pragby. Good morning, everyone. I’ll be taking you through the quarter-four and FY ’25 financials now. Starting with quarterly highlights, revenue from operations stood at INR720 crores. Our volume for the quarter stood at 454 metric ton as compared to 514 metric ton same-period last year. It degrew by 2% year-on-year. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR55 crores, de-growth of 41% year-on-year, while margin stood at 7.6%. Profit-after-tax for the quarter stood at INR24 crores and top PAT margins for the quarter stood at 3.4%.
For the full-year highlights, revenue from operations stood at INR2524 crores, de-growth of 2% year-on-year. Our volume for FY ’25 stood at 177202 metric ton as compared to 172 793 metric tons same-period last year. EBITDA for the full-year stood at INR162 crores, while margins stood at 6.4%. Profit-after-tax stood at INR43 crores. PAT margin stood at 1.7%. For the year FY ’25, our working capital stood at 99 days compared to 95 days same-period last year. Receivable have shown marked improvement and now stand at 61 days from 83 days in March-end. Inventory days stood at 88 days as on 31st March 2025.
With this, I now in my speech, I’ll open the forum for question-and-answer session.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles.
The first question is from the line of Najal from Everflow Partners. Please go-ahead.
Nigel Mascarenhas
Good morning, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Few questions from my end. Firstly, as an organization, we have had pressure on both margins and market-share recently and we hear that the industry-leader is aggressive for market-share. So what are we prioritizing at this point? Is it margins or market-share?
Nihar Chheda
Yeah, thank you for your question. I think last year has been a tough year for the industry because of the negative sentiment of respect to PVC prices as a result of which there has been destocking from channel partners not only for prints but for all the players across the industry. Hence in this kind of an environment there was a lot of aggression seen in pricing. I believe PVC prices have bottomed-out and in fact, we have seen a slight reversal in PVC prices as well.
So typically, if you see this industry, apart from the past maybe one or two years, we have always had profitable growth and we have always reinvested those profits into adding capacities and building a stronger brand. So this year, I don’t think we will have that kind of a negative sentiment that we’ve had in the past year and that reluctance of stocking the channel partner should not be the same this year. So our focus always remains on growing market-share in a profitable way. It is not binary that we have to have one or the other. It has to be growth, but growth in a profitable manner, because we are also adding capacities and we are also wanting to become a stronger brand and keep investing money back into becoming a stronger brand.
Nigel Mascarenhas
Got it. And what sort of growth and margin outlook do you have for the upcoming financial year given these market dynamics?
Parag Chheda
So I think this year we should have double-digit volume growth, given that last year was a tough year. So we will have a favorable base. And apart from that, we have added capacity with a new plant coming in where we have commenced a commercial production of in March month. So given with the expanded capacities, affordability in PVC prices and real-estate, which continues to do well, I think we should be having double-digit growth this year. And also for the margin, sir so margins are a function of multiple levers. One is product mix, second is pricing power, which was obviously last year there was — which was under pressure. And third is operating leverage. The more we sell, the more profitable we are. And like I said, with additional capacities coming in, there should be good volume growth, which helps with our cost absorption. So over the long-term, we would still maintain our guidance of around 12% EBITDA margin for the long-term.
Nigel Mascarenhas
Got it, sir. One final question from my end. Are you seeing any opportunity or uptick in institutional sales for us or do you see that being a meaningful part of the business for us going-forward?
Parag Chheda
And in terms of institutional sales, we have typically stayed away from because of the extended credit cycles. So we do participate in these kind of institutional projects, be it or Swatch Bharat, but we participate through our channel partners so that we don’t take the credit risk directly on our books. So we selectively participate on in these programs. And whenever we do, we do it through our channel partners. We rarely take the credit risk directly on our books. But going-forward, I think the focus of the organization continues to be growing the distribution footprint for the retail business and growing the project business by building our relationships with our developers and contractors and plumbing consultants across the country.
Nigel Mascarenhas
Understood. Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go-ahead.
Shravan Shah
Yeah. Before asking the question, just two, three data points, sir, for this quarter, revenue and EBITDA loss.
Anand Gupta
For this quarter — for the full-year, I’ll say the Bachwar had clocked INR30 crores. So this is what the number is. And for — if you talk about this quarter, the sale was around INR10.5 crores and the loss for this quarter was in the range of INR4.5 crores.
Shravan Shah
INR5 crores. Okay. And in terms of the water tank for FY ’25, what would be the revenue and even possible.
Anand Gupta
For FY ’24? It’s around INR48 crores for full-year.
Shravan Shah
For FY ’24, was it INR37 crore INR38 crores?
Anand Gupta
Yeah, it was around INR40 crores, INR38 crore to INR40 crores, yes. So we have seen around 20% growth over there.
Shravan Shah
Yeah. So now the question again coming back to one on the volume front. So just trying to understand, so for this Bihar, because we started 24,000 ton and in next six months, we will be adding another maybe 35,000, 36,000 odd to reach a 60,000 ton. So if I — if you can help me or even — and my calculation also just suggests that even if we do a decent kind of a 20,000 25,000 ton from here assuming then also and plus the core growth of — should be. So we should be doing at least kind of a 15% kind of a volume growth, but we are saying at a double-digit. So if you can also specify double-digit, does it mean a kind of 15% kind of a range or it is more close towards a 10% growth.
Parag Chheda
Yeah. So 15% also is double-digit, but I will — given the — you know, so many variables that are there in the market, we have always been conservative with guidance and then we prefer to let the numbers do the talking and that’s how we have always done it since day-one. The point being, there are lot of positives that I see this year compared to last year that I have spoken about. And we have added capacity and we are doing the right thing as far as demand-generation is concerned, which I spoke about in terms of adding to the distribution network, adding new products and investing in the brand and focusing on building our relationship in the B2B space. So we are doing everything that we can in terms of demand-generation and we are adding capacity. So if and when the demand picks up, we do have that additional capacity to be able to service that because, see, no one can predict uptrends in-demand. We have seen that with our experience in the industry that supply creates demand. If we have product, we will be able to sell it. We cannot exactly predict when the demand will come. But point is we should be able — we should have the strength of the supply-chain as well as the capacity to be able to service the demand. That we have built. And whenever that uptrend in-demand comes, we will be able to fulfill it because of the kind of inventories we are working on as well as the kind of capacities we have built.
Shravan Shah
Okay. Okay. Just to add more on
Operator
Sorry to interrupt, sir, but I may request you to rejoin the question queue for follow-up questions. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in this conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Praveen Shay from PL Capital. Please go-ahead.
Praveen Sahay
Yeah, hi, sir. Thank you for opportunity. If you can give any numbers or color on, is there any inventory losses for you for this quarter? If then how much is that?
Anand Gupta
So it is around INR25 crores for this quarter, the inventory loss.
Praveen Sahay
Okay. And also if you can, you know, give some color on the pricing scenario right now because a couple of days back, there is some reversal in the PVC resin prices. So on the PVC resin prices, how you see the way forward or even the ADD, if any information you can give on?
Parag Chheda
Sure. So I think you’re right. We have seen an increase in PVC prices of INR1,500 per metric ton a couple of days ago from Reliance, don’t expect — so I’m keeping ADD aside first without ADD. I don’t expect a very sharp uptick in prices. I think prices will continue to remain stable. But the good part is that the negative sentiment will not be there. There will not be a resistance to stock material as there is no threat of an inventory loss for the channel partners as well. So that is the one positive. I think we will see a stable price environment and affordability in PVC.
As far as ADD is concerned, there has been a lot of talk about ADD since past two or 3/4. I prefer not to speculate on these things because this is related to the government and the DGTR. Whenever it comes, I think the PVC will continue to be range-bound, but you will see a recovery. So whatever PVC today is maybe around INR70 rupees per kg, this could move to around INR75 to INR80 per kg. So you could see a slight uptick. But again, I don’t see a major irrational upward movement of PVC. It will continue to be stable and range-bound and affordable. So that’s where PVC prices are. But I think we can safely say it has bottomed-out and there is no negative sentiment in the channel as far as stocking of inventory is concerned.
Praveen Sahay
Really helpful, sir. And also on the inventory side, if you can give a color on the higher side of your inventory, is it related to the finished good or RM you are carrying from the last 3/4?
Parag Chheda
Okay. So one is you have seen a reduction in overall inventory from December to March. So there has been a significant reduction. This is a combination of both finished good and raw-material. We have built infrastructure to be able to hold higher finished good material. So that is something that we don’t want to reduce. Because again, it’s a supply-driven industry if we are — the point is that once you lose a sale, it is lost forever. So we need to have very strong finished good inventory.
Raw-material inventory is on the higher side where like we said in the opening remarks, we have relooked at our strategy, reevaluated our strategy. Our inventory — raw-material inventory will normalize by the end of this quarter or the beginning of Q2 and we will continue to then have a tight control on the raw-material inventory. Finished good inventory, we will continue to hold at a healthy level going-forward?
Praveen Sahay
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. And all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Keshav from HDFC Securities. Please go-ahead.
Keshav Lahoti
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. Firstly, congratulations on a steep recovery in margin Q-on-Q. Sir, first question is, we have seen your realization has improved sequentially when raising prices were declining. So is there some change in mix?
Parag Chheda
Can you repeat your question, please? Sorry.
Keshav Lahoti
So normally the leasing prices were declining. So ideally the realization should has been lower Q-on-Q, but we see for the company, it has improved. So there has been some change in mix, I am assuming what sort of mix has been? Can you give some color on that?
Parag Chheda
Yeah, we have had a better sale of value-added products, CPVC specifically. So we have been growing in CPVC at a good pace relative to PVC and that trend has continued in the March quarter as a result of which we have seen an improvement not only in realizations, but also at the operating margin level. So it’s a function of product mix as well as cost absorption.
Keshav Lahoti
Understood. Got it. So can you quantify what is the CPVC growth year-on-year for you at the company-level maybe for FY ’25 or Q4 something?
Parag Chheda
It is a double-digit growth in CPVC March quarter as well as for the entire fiscal. As you are aware, we don’t give segmental data, but there is a double-digit growth. And overall, obviously there is on an annual basis, we have grown by 3%. So it has been driven largely by our CPVC.
Keshav Lahoti
Understood. Got it. That is helpful. One last question from my side. Sir, on the incentive, which you were given 3% last quarter, how is that right now? Have you decreased the incentive to the dealer?
Parag Chheda
Yeah. So that continued in March quarter and that is continuing in Q1. We have added capacities. So we will continue to focus on our growing. Like I said, it has to be done in a profitable manner with a slight reversal in PVC prices and a clear signal of bottoming out. Now I think we will be able to with time, not have to be that aggressive on pricing going-forward. These things take time to reverse and we don’t want to shock the channel, but I’m sure the sentiment now is much better than what it was in the second-half of last fiscal?
Keshav Lahoti
Got it. And channel inventory is normal or will it get to normal? As you were highlighting, the PVC pricing has seen uptake channel inventories getting normalized. So how is it now?
Parag Chheda
Channel inventory as we speak is low and for my channel partners because of the reluctance to stock material. So channel inventory is low. I think with this increase in prices, again, I don’t see some very sharp recovery of PVC prices. I think prices will continue to be stable and as a result of which finished good will continue to be affordable. But I believe now there will not be any resistance to stock and dealers can maintain normal inventory level, which is very good for the industry and low-volatility of input prices and distributors will not speculate and try to have high restocking or destocking, and which is good for the industry that PVC prices remain affordable as a result of which in a pass-through industry, finished good prices also will continue to remain affordable. And with players like us adding capacity aggressively, we will be able to focus on a long-term growth that the industry will have. We will be able to be a major beneficiary of that growth.
Keshav Lahoti
Understood. Got it. Thank you. I’ll come back-in queue.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sneehat Alreja from Nuvama. Please go-ahead. Ma’am. We take the next participant. The next question is from the line of Pritesh Chheda from Lucky Investments. Please go-ahead.
Pritesh Chheda
Yeah, hi. I missed the inventory loss number for quarter-four in FY ’25 and can you give me the bathware losses for FY ’25?
Anand Gupta
So INR25 crores for the Q4 inventory loss and bathware is around INR4.5 crore for the quarter, full-year around INR17 crores to INR18 crores.
Pritesh Chheda
Inventory loss for full-year.
Anand Gupta
85 crores to INR90 crores.
Pritesh Chheda
Okay. The other thing is, sir, are we doing anything — so let’s say the inventory is materially up versus the business — the way business was conducted about four, five years back. Are we doing anything incrementally whereby we can relook at the way we manage our inventories, number-one. And number two, let’s say from the industry perspective, what we are seeing is that there are many more players are getting added versus what the industry was, let’s say, 5-7 years back and many more capacities getting added, people cross-selling brands also does it mean that it is, let’s say a slower-growth for incumbents and a different margin profile or let’s say, EBITDA per AG profile than historically that we have seen on averages for incumbents including you. So I have these two questions.
Parag Chheda
Yeah. Thank you, Pritesh. I think first question, yes, we are — so let me talk about inventory in two-parts. One is raw-material and second is finished good. Finished good, in fact, we have made investments over the past 24 months-to improve our infrastructure across facilities to be able to keep our around 30 to 40 days of finished good inventory. So that is something we will not shy away from. We are an industry where supply creates demand, a sale lost once is a sale lost permanently. So finished good inventory, we will keep a healthy level of finished good inventory.
Raw-material inventory, like I said earlier, we have reevaluated our strategy and we want to — we have increased our domestic contracts and our dependence — as our capacities grow, as we become a larger, more organized player, have no problem reevaluating our strategy and we have implemented that as well. And we will — we have already improved our domestic sourcing, which means that we can keep a lower inventory level. So going-forward, I believe around 30 days of raw-material inventory and 30 to 40 days of finished good inventory. So around 60 to 70 days of inventory is what is a sweet-spot for us that we have evaluated and that is one change and we are happy to implement that and we have already done that. So that answers the first part of your question.
Second part of your question in terms of competitive intensity, I have a slightly different view to this. Yes, there are new entrants are in the industry, which one signals the kind of long-term profit pools that are available for the industry and the kind of growth that the industry will have over the long-term. Clearly, this has — within the building material industry, piping has been — if you look at the past decade has been the fastest-growing industry and has been — we have been able to do that in a profitable manner during the last, let’s say four or five quarters.
The good part is any of these players that are coming in are branded players, corporate players who have — will always have a disciplined approach to pricing, to quality, to credit control and we still around 30% 35% of this industry continues to be unorganized. So I am very happy to compete with organized players where there is a level-playing field with respect to pricing and quality and credit. What I am not comfortable competing with unorganized players who just has two extruders in their workshop, you know, gives a sub-standard or a non-standard product, does all kind of financial mismanagement, then it’s not a level-playing field as far as cost structures are concerned. So you know, I am happy to compete with organized players and this is a category which is behind the wall and we are seeing a higher awareness of brand going-forward. And as a result of that, I believe big will continue to get bigger. I’m very happy to compete with organized players rather than compete with unorganized players.
And lastly, I think it’s very important to also see the microeconomics for it. For a builder today, his piping cost is less than 1.5% of the overall project cost. So even if he is getting a new brand 10%, 15% cheaper, he is not wanting to experiment with piping because overall impact on the project cost is not significant. Whereas if you are — you try and experiment with a new brand and there is any leakage in the pipes, the nuisance value is far higher in terms of the brand image of the builder. So I believe this brand consciousness will only increase in this industry and which is why we are aggressively investing in the brand year-on-year. And I believe this will continue to consolidate. Any addition in capacity, whether it’s from incumbents like us or from new entrants, I believe the people losing the market-share are the unorganized players. So that’s — I hope that gives you clarity.
Pritesh Chheda
So just on the. —
Operator
Sorry to sir, but I may request you to rejoin the question queue for follow-up questions.
Pritesh Chheda
Okay.
Operator
Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Utkash from BOB Capital Markets. Please go-ahead.
Utkarsh Nopany
Yeah, hi, good morning, sir. Sir, my first question is on your gross margin for FY ’26. So if we adjust for inventory loss of INR25 crores, then our adjusted gross margin stood at 28.5% for this March quarter. So wanted to understand from you, can we maintain similar kind of a gross margin for FY ’26 or do we see a risk to this number due to rise in competitive intensity in the sector?
Parag Chheda
So this number we have achieved despite the competitive intensity. It’s a function of our one is our product mix and operating leverage. Our product mix has been favorable in the March quarter like it usually is, especially from the plumbing segment, both CPVC and UPVC plumbing, which tend to be higher-margin products. Q1 is usually agri-heavy for the industry and for us. But on an annual basis, we are confident of being able to achieve this kind of a margin.
Utkarsh Nopany
Okay. Okay. Sir, my second question is on your capex. So what would be our capex guidance for FY ’26? And for Bihar project, if you can specify how much we have spent till March ’25 and how much we are planning to spend in FY ’26.
Anand Gupta
So I’ll start with the Bihar what we have done in FY ’25. We have a installed 24,000 capacity and related infrastructure for which we have capitalized around INR180 crores in our books of accounts. Remaining is around INR70 crores, which includes infra as well as new capacity means which it will take to around INR60 crores in next six months, we will be investing. So FY ’26 has a spillover of INR70 crores on Bihar front. We have a capital commitment on-brand, around INR43 crores and internal CapEx-related to a new plant will be around INR7 crores to INR8 crores. So it will be around INR50 crores on that front and internal capex for existing plant, seven plants for operational maintenance and replacement capex, it will be around INR100 crores. So around INR220 crores will be the capex planned for FY ’26 as — and in this, only 100 is related to ongoing our maintenance of plants and 120 is one-off, which will give us good capacity expansion in both as well as pipes and fittings in East India.
Utkarsh Nopany
Okay, got it, sir. And sir, lastly, like sir, your gross block asset turn has gone down sharply from roughly 3x during pre-COVID to now 1.9x. So just wanted to understand what should be the sustainable gross asset turn for you over the medium-term period?
Parag Chheda
Yeah., so the reason for that is twofold. One is a lot of the capacities have been added in the past four years. So if you see in the past four years, three new plants have been put up for Jaipur, Telangana and now. And apart from that existing plants debottlenecking also has happened. So I think we need to see this in the long-term. A lot of new capacity has been added. And as you know, three greenfield plants. So our existing plants when you debottleneck is relatively cheaper. But when you’re putting up greenfield capacity, one, you are investing in-land and you need to set-up the infrastructure, which is a large part of the overall cost structure.
And one more thing I would like to highlight is at all the three plants, Jaipur, Telangana and Bihar, we have invested heavily in-land. So Jaipur is more than 80 acres. Telangana is more than 45 acres and Bihar is more than 35 acres. So we have — at existing plants, we were seeing the kind of infrastructure challenges we had and we were not able to debottleneck these plants. So at the new locations, Jaipur, which is for North and West, Telangana, which is for South and Bihar, which is for East, all three strategically located for long-term growth. Now we will be able to debottleneck over the next five, six years, we will continue to really sweat these assets and keep adding capacities, because now land will not be a bottleneck in terms of adding capacity and keeping finished good inventory. That is why you are seeing a reduction in the asset terms. And further you have — the revenues have not grown because of the decline in PVC prices. So I think it’s a double hit. But I think this will normalize going-forward as we continue to grow aggressively in terms of volume over the next two, three years and we sweat these assets. I think you will see a recovery in the asset terms, I hope that we believe that.
Utkarsh Nopany
Okay Thanks a lot, sir.
Operator
Thank you. Participants are requested to limit their questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Nehat Alreja from Nuvama. Please go-ahead.
Sneha Talreja
Hi, good morning, team. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. Just a couple of questions. How is the demand currently doing? While I understand you said that PC prices bottomed-out, there is somewhat of restocking happening. Just wanted to gauge, sir, how is the demand, how is the demand from the plumbing side and how much restocking alone can actually lead to growth in FY ’26? So some sense there would be helpful.
Parag Chheda
Thank you. Thank you,. I think — so one is, I don’t think there will be a very aggressive restocking and we don’t want that to happen also. I think what is good for us and for the industry is if the dealers just keep a healthy level of inventory because when there is speculative restocking that also then eventually leads to destocking. And of course, there is a function of PVC prices. So if I have to guide sitting today looking at the factors that are in front of me, I believe that you will have a stable PVC pricing environment, which will lead to stability in terms of the inventory that the channel keeps, which is good. You will not see very aggressive restocking or destocking.
Prices have bottomed-out. So now there is no reluctance to keep basic level of inventory that a normal level of inventory that the channel would keep. The price increase has just been announced two days ago. So we will see how that pans out. But my — sitting today, what my understanding is that you will have a healthy level of inventory that the channel keeps. We don’t expect some very sharp movements, which I think is good.
Sneha Talreja
I mean, just to rephrase my question in that case, how much are we away from that normal level of inventory or can it lead to 2% to 3% for growth to reach a normal level, 4%? I mean, some sense there is what I was just thinking about.
Parag Chheda
So usually I think channel would be keeping around depending on-market to-market, but around three to four weeks of inventory. I think that today would be around less than two weeks. So that’s how we see it in terms of channel inventory.
Sneha Talreja
Understood. Secondly, my question was more on the CPVC side. We see a lot of incremental capacities coming up in CPVC side. Of course, you are tied-up to itself is coming at large capacity and as per my channel checks, I think would also be open to giving this or raisin supplier to I think you know even other players. So what’s the sense that you have? Are you open to them taking it only from? Would you see changes happening in your raw-material sourcing on the CPC front also? And the CPVC supply increases, what’s your sense on the market shares in that case? Because so-far has remained a lot more consolidated because of non-availability of supply to a lot of smaller manufacturers with so much supply coming into market with CTVC, so are we going to see segmentation of this market across?
Parag Chheda
Yeah, I think it’s an important question. I think CPVC till now in India, we have been deficient in terms of supply I believe CPVC industry is on a very interesting cusp of growth, the kind of capacities that are being put up, whether it’s by MNCs or by local players there is very aggressive capacity addition. You are going to see a very affordable CPVC raw-material and as a result finish good pricing over the next three, four years. I think this goes back to decades ago when this happened with PVC as well, which led to a mass consumption of PVC across the country. And today, India is one of the largest consumers of PVC. I think we are on that kind of a cusp for CPVC. I think this is just the startup in terms of the acceptance of CPVC and the consumption of CPVC. Across multiple applications, be it plumbing, firefighting and industrial.
I believe again this is a very sensitive use-case for the builder. It goes in the concealed application for plumbing. So today, 80% of the market is with top four of us. And I don’t see any major shifts. Yes, there will be access to smaller players, but I think this is an extremely brand-conscious segment and a very sensitive use-case because it goes into concealed application for hot and cold water plumbing. So I think there is net-net, there is more to gain than to lose for a large player like us who already has, let’s say, more than 10% market-share in this segment. We are aggressively adding capacity and we are extremely bullish on the growth of CPVC over the next few years.
Sneha Talreja
Thanks. And just lastly
Operator
Sorry to interrupt, ma’am, but I may request you to rejoin the question queue for follow-up questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Arun Bhat from ICICI Securities. Please go-ahead.
Arun Baid
Yeah. Thank you. Nice to hear your discussion on the inventory part that you mentioned. But if I look at your previous numbers, FY ’24 was 62 days, FY ’23 was 57 days. FY ’22 was 85 and FY ’21 was 40-odd days. So what I’m trying to get to is that, is this 70-75 months you discussed, do you think that one maybe hopefully by the September balance sheet when you report or is this a new normal.
Parag Chheda
I’m not able to hear you. The voice is breaking up. Can you repeat? I think there’s some disturbance on the line. No, I’m not able to hear clearly.
Arun Baid
Hello, can you hear better?
Parag Chheda
Yeah, please go-ahead. Yes. I’m best trying to understand the inventory part. You know, this year we had obviously 88 days of inventory. But if I look at previous years, FY ’24 was 62, FY ’23 was 57 and FY ’21 was 40-odd days. So what I’m trying to get to is, is this 75 that you normally believe is a sweet-spot for us? So it’s very important to see inventory as a average across the year. The number that you are referring to is the year-end number, which there have been years where we have stocked out. If you look at some of those years just before COVID and just after COVID, we have seen the finished goods stockouts happening because of very aggressive growth that we had in those years. So I don’t think that’s a fair estimation of what our inventory was in that year throughout the year. It’s just a case of at one point of the year, that was the inventory because there was very — there was an aggressive consolidation that was happening in those years and we were a major beneficiary of that consolidation during that period. But that you referred to a few years where the inventory maybe was, let’s say, 40 days or 50 days. That is still not a reflection of what my inventory was throughout that year. That is just at one point of the year. But going-forward, I think 60 to 70 days is our sweet-spot. 30 days of raw-material is a healthy inventory and 30 days to 40 days of finished good. We have increased our inventory of finished good over the past two, three years as we invest in infrastructure to be able to keep better finished good inventory or to be able to serve any uptick or any uptrend in-demand, we have taken a conscious call. But overall inventory, 60 to 70 days is what is healthy for the organization.
Arun Baid
Okay. And just to that question, this can be seen by September of this year. Can you report your sheet. Is that correct?
Parag Chheda
Correct.
Arun Baid
Okay. One real question. This would be very nice if this can be done because this has been a major concern for most of the investors because we discussed this last call also, a huge variation in inventory leads to lot of losses. If it can be addressed, it will be good for the side.
Parag Chheda
Yeah, thank you. I think we have already noted this. And not only have we noted this, but we’ve also changed our strategy of raw-material and increased exposure to domestic contracts as well as we are growing our capacity. So we are always happy to be dynamic with our strategies and keep in touch with the ground reality of the market. So yeah, I think 60 to 70 days is what we should be ending the September.
Operator
Thank you. The next part — the next question comes from the line of Moksh Ranka from Aurum Capital. Please go-ahead.
Moksh Ranka
Hello. In your previous call, you have mentioned that for your Aqua, which is your bathware brand, you would like to at least benchmark it with, if not higher. So could you just give me a sense on how our sales realization prices for our product for the comparable hello.
Parag Chheda
Yeah, can you repeat the question?
Moksh Ranka
Yeah. Previous calls you had mentioned that you are that you would like to benchmark your acquis brand, which is your brand with Jaguar, if not. So could you just give a sense of how our products? Hello?
Parag Chheda
I don’t think I understood the question if I can answer. I think product positioning is something is very interesting, which can — which any industry-leader which has been in the industry for decades like we have in pipes, you cannot replicate that overnight. End-of-the day, brand is nothing but long-term perception building. So that will not reflect in sales realization, especially not in the first year of the business. This is just where we are positioning the product in terms of range, in terms of design or in terms of service capabilities that we provide after-sales, which is a very big part of this business. So we are very open to learning. We cannot — while there are a lot of similarities with the pipe business, there are also a lot of things that make this business unique.
Pipes, there is no after-sales service that is critical to the success of the brand or the business, whereas in Bathware, it is a major thing. Whereas range I look at very similarly today in pipe, one of our biggest USPs in the marketplace is a very wide range of products across plumbing, sewage, underground rainage, industrial boardwell applications. Similarly, in bathware today, we have ranges across different price points today if a consumer wants to build a bathroom and has a budget of right from INR60,000 per bathroom to INR15,000 per bathroom, we have a range and a collection in the faucets and business. So that brand positioning is where we are striving to position ourselves versus the incumbent. It would be wrong for me to say that whether we’ll achieve that in the first or second year that would not be something which is practical. But that’s our vision for the brand, which will be built with investing in the right team, investing in the right product and investing in the brand and strengthening our relationships with our channel partners. So I think with these levers over the long-term, that kind of brand positioning will be built.
Moksh Ranka
Okay. And for the pipes business, how is the April and May month have been currently in terms of demand and also,, just in terms of demand?,
Parag Chheda
So I think if you see right now, we have just seen the increase in PVC prices. So it’s hard for me to comment. I think it’s too early. So let the quarter play-out in terms of how it reacts. I think there’s a clear signaling of bottoming out of PVC prices, which when we interact with our team and our channel partners, we sense that now there is no reluctance to keep stock. So this has come, I would say, just this week, which is on 20th of May. So I think still some time for us to be able to comment on it. Let’s see how things.
Moksh Ranka
Okay. Okay. That’s it from me, sir.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Udit Gajiwala from YES Securities. Please go-ahead.
Udit Gajiwala
Yeah, hi, sir. Just one question on the volume front, double-digit even if we capture 10% to 15% growth. Can you just assume that what kind of volumes can we see from the Sarai plant for the whole year?
Parag Chheda
So we will be — we have already put up 24 kt of rated capacity, which will be scaled-up to 60 KT in the next two quarters. So this is a installed capacity typically, you know, to reach 60% to 70% utilization would take around two years. So I think this year we could see around 20 to 25 kt coming in from the Big facility. And maybe from FY ’27 onwards, we would see a closer to ideal capacity utilization. So I think 24 months, 24 to 36 months is a fair benchmark to reach the ideal capacity utilization.
Udit Gajiwala
So I just assume 20 to 25 times from your new plant and that — and you guide for double-digit growth assuming 10 to 15 is what you mean. Then the ongoing plants that we have that there we are expecting a flattish growth again. I mean, there may be something that I might be missing, but if that is the understanding then?
Parag Chheda
No, see, I think what’s — let me clarify that just because we have put up capacity does not mean that demand is going to grow. I think when you put up capacity, you put it up with a vision of growth in the industry and across sectors of building material agriculture and infrastructure, which are the three verticals that we serve. Our point is, you can never predict when there is going to be an uptrend in-demand. In the past, we have seen times where we have seen very sharp uptrends in-demand because real-estate doing well, agri doing well, affordability in PVC prices. And I’m seeing a lot of confluence of those factors coming in this year.
Point is, we need to do what we do in terms of demand-generation, like I spoke about adding distributors, adding new products, investing in the — the brand quarter-on-quarter regardless of how profitability is because we build brand over the long-term. So we have to do what we do in terms of demand-generation and then we have to add capacities to be able to cater to that demand. Now when that uptrend will come, it is — no one knows. But point is whenever that happens, we need to have inventory, we need to have capacity to be able to fulfill that demand. So result is not in our hand, process is in our hand and we are doing both the things that we can as far as the demand-side is concerned and as far as the supply-side is concerned, and we have seen times where we have aggressively worked on-demand generation and we have not added capacities at the right time. And once you lose the sale, it is lost forever. So you need — as an industry-leader with a strong balance sheet we need to keep adding capacity to ensure whenever those uptrends come, you are able to fuel that demand with the right supply. So we are being ahead of the curve with adding capacity. We have traditionally always done that and we will continue to do that going-forward.
Udit Gajiwala
Got it, sir. And sir, if you may just let us know that is for the Eastern market. So currently, which plant — from which plant were you catering this market?
Parag Chheda
If not from plant from the plant as well as from the outsource or manufacturing, which we had for one-product category, SWR Pipes in — Hajipur, Bihar.
Udit Gajiwala
Okay. That’s helpful, sir.
Parag Chheda
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go-ahead.
Shravan Shah
Yeah. Sir, just maybe a straightforward question. When we are seeing a double-digit volume growth or does — is — does that mean that in the Q1 itself, can we see the same double-digit kind of a growth or we will not be able to guide?
Parag Chheda
Like I said, the PVC price increase has just been announced. So we need to time — we need some time to assess how things pan-out. The guidance, of course, is for the full-year.
Shravan Shah
And in terms of the — now the prices are stable and obviously, the INR1.5 increase has happened. So in terms of the adjusting the inventory losses, can we now start seeing from Q1 itself kind of a double-digit EBITDA margin and if not the 12% which we are looking at for full-year? And if you possible, if you can help us at least we can see a kind of 11% kind of EBITDA margin in FY ’26.
Parag Chheda
Yeah. So I think 12% EBITDA margin is the long-term guidance. I will stay away from speculating in the middle of the quarter. I think there will be inventory loss in Q1 as well. The extent will — we need to see you have seen the recovery in margins Q3 to Q4 and lot of things we are working on, both in terms of product mix, in terms of cost optimization and in terms of seeing how we can get pricing power back as sentiment improves. So of course, the margin recovery for the full-year will be — there will be a significant improvement in margins this year compared to last year.
Shravan Shah
And if possible, sir, our CPVC and PVC industry growth in the Q4 and FY ’26 and possible for FY ’20 or what I may request you to read yeah. Just a last — just a last one. Many people have asked more than two. So last-time I did not politely exit it, let me complete this. So just our last thing on the industry growth for PVC and CPVC for Q4 FY ’25 — FY ’25 and how we are expecting for FY ’24?
Parag Chheda
Yeah, I think Q4 has been flattish for the industry. Yeah. I think for full-year, there has been a slight degrowth for the plastic piping industry. So I think Q4 was flattish, but full-year I think there would be a low-to mid-digit degrowth at an industry level. So I think larger players have still hold-on to volumes at the cost of the smaller unorganized players.
Shravan Shah
This is for PVC and for FY ’26, how much industry likely to grow?
Parag Chheda
I think again tough to speculate, but I think there should be — because there is a days, there should be I think 5% to 7% growth is what I can say for the industry sitting today.
Shravan Shah
And same for CPVC Q4 FY ’25 and FY ’26.
Parag Chheda
So I — I’m talking about this is all blended, all put together I’m talking as a piping industry.
Shravan Shah
Okay, because your presentation — and then the last couple of slides where we mentioned about the industry where we are talking about kind of a 5% volume CAGR for PVC and in terms of the overall volume — value terms are 10% to 12%, does that mean are we — are we looking at kind of a 4% to 5%, 6% kind of a price CAGR for till FY ’30?
Parag Chheda
Yeah. I think pricing, of course will improve with PVC prices botting up and growth of value-added products like our CPVC and other polymers. So I think safe to say over the next three to five years, there will be — value growth should be higher than volume growth at an industry level, given improvement in PVC prices because they have bottomed-out and growth of other value-added products.
Shravan Shah
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Keshav from HDFC Securities. Please go-ahead.
Keshav Lahoti
So when are we expecting breakeven in the bathway segment?
Parag Chheda
I think another four to five quarters.
Keshav Lahoti
Another four means in FY ’27.
Parag Chheda
Earlier we are expecting in FY ’26. So it’s not ramping-up as expected to so. I think it’s — FY ’24 quarters would be FY ’26, four to five quarters.
Keshav Lahoti
Got it. And last question, how — got it. One last question, what was the ad spends in FY ’25 as a percentage of sales for absolute and how will be it in FY ’26?
Anand Gupta
As we have always maintained means around 2% is something what we are maintaining. And we’ll keep on having the same number for the next year also. So for this year, we have — for this year we have spent around INR53 crores which translates to around 2.2% kind of and the same kind of level we will be investing in the next year as well.
Keshav Lahoti
That is helpful. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nehar Talreja from Nuvama. Please go-ahead.
Sneha Talreja
Thanks a lot for the follow-up. We were talking about the industry growth rate where you said that this year we have seen a degrowth. What is the expectation on the industry growth side, both on the PVC and the CPEVC front.
Parag Chheda
I think this year there should be industry should grow by 5%, 6%. You mean PVC and should be led by CPVC I think growth will be led by CPVC with improvement in local capacities and rationalization of pricing. But since the base is favorable, I think PVC should also have growth. It’s tough for me to comment segment-wise what the growth will be. But of course, CPVC being — base being smaller, capacity is being added, affordability increasing. Growth will be led by CPVC, but I think next year PVC should also see good growth at an industry level and then of course for larger players.
Sneha Talreja
But both put together, we are talking about 5% to 7% growth, right?
Parag Chheda
At an industry level, yeah.
Sneha Talreja
Understood. Lastly, on the OPVC front, we’ve seen other players, be it, I mean Astral, be it Supreme, Apollo, all of them announcing capacities. So where are we? Are we contemplating it if yes or what’s the technology that we are looking at?
Parag Chheda
Currently, I think we are not evaluating OPVC. We are focusing more on new products, which will be further retail and the private B2B projects. I think it’s a conscious call to stay away from the businesses that are more driven by government sales or infrastructure sales. So we could evaluate in the future. But as of now, there are no plans.
Sneha Talreja
Understood. And lastly, if at all, I may, on the HDP front, where are we — we had invested here, what’s the kind of utilization are we running at? And some sense, is it forming any meaningful proportion to our revenues now?
Parag Chheda
So as of now, I think growth is still driven by CPVC and PVC. Specific capacity utilization for HDP, I think Anand can share with you offline. I don’t have it handy, but the growth in last year and Q4 has mainly been driven by CPVC and PVC.
Sneha Talreja
Understood. Thanks. Thanks a lot team and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Nihar Chheda
Thank you all for attending the call. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. On behalf of Prince Pipes Fittings Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.