Premier Energies Ltd (NSE: PREMIERENE) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 19, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Chiranjeev Saluja — Managing Director
Vinay Rustagi — Senior Director, Investor Relations
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Mohit Kumar — Analyst
Nidhi Shah — Analyst
Deepak Krishnan — Analyst
Bala Murali — Analyst
Anupam Goswami — Analyst
Nikhil Nigania — Analyst
Mayur Patel — Analyst
Sanjam Mukham — Analyst
Dhruv Muchhal — Analyst
Akash Mehta — Analyst
Sarang Joglekar — Analyst
Mohnish Dudhwala — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Premier Energies Limited Q4 NFI 25 earnings conference call hosted by ICICI Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing stop on your touchstone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Mohit Kumar — Analyst
Thank you Shruti. Good morning. On behalf of ICICI Securities I welcome you all to the key for FY25 earnings call of Pima Energies. Today we have with us from the management Mr. Chidanyu Singh Saluja, Managing Director, Mr. Nand Kishore Khandulwal, CFO and Mr. Binarustagi Senior Director Investor Relations. We’ll begin with the opening remarks from management which will be followed by Q and A. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Chiranjeev Saluja — Managing Director
Thank you Mohit. Am I audible?
operator
Yes sir, you are.
Chiranjeev Saluja — Managing Director
Okay, thank you. Good morning everybody. Thank you for joining us today. For our financial year 2025 results call, I am joined today by my colleague Mr. N.K. khandelwal Group CFO Sudhir Reddy, Director and Chief Strategy Officer Vinay R. Ustagi, Chief Business Officer Premium Energies has had an outstanding year with excellent revenue and earnings growth. For the whole year the company achieved a total revenue of 66,521 million rupees registering 110% growth over previous year. EBITDA came in at 19,142 million rupees exhibiting a growth of 279% while PAT grew by 305% to 9,371 million rupees. These strong results have come because of robust demand across different segments in the domestic market plus our strong focus on optimizing operations and building customer relationships.
I’m very pleased to share with all of you about our long term vision of maintaining a leadership position in the industry. As part of our mission 2028 we have set ourselves a target of achieving a 10 gigawatt ingot wafer cell and module integrated capacity. Apart from this, our entry into battery energy storage business and inverter businesses. Our previously announced growth projects are progressing very well. A new 1.4 gigawatt module line has become operational last week while the 1.2 gigawatt Topcon cell line is due for commissioning next month. Work is also progressing well on our 4.8 gigawatt Topcon and 5.6 gigawatt module line which is a part of the 4 plus 4 of the IPO proceeds as well as the 2 gigawatt wafer plant.
We are also ready to move ahead with our investments into the US space for a 1.2 gigawatt cell line as and when there is more clarity on the US policy including these ongoing expansion plans and the new initiatives announced today as part of our mission 2028. Our total estimated CAPEX over the next three years is going to be 125,000 million rupees. We believe that mission 2028 places us in a great competitive position with investments in scale, advanced technology, backward integration and a complementary product portfolio with huge synergies. Overall we see a very good demand visibility in the solar sector.
There’s a strong policy impotence behind the government’s flagship Suryagarh and Kusum schemes both of which require DCR modules. With the implementation of ALM on cells from June 26 onwards the market is gradually moving to 100% DCR status. The government of India remains very supportive of domestic manufacturing and to this end a new national manufacturing mission has been announced in the Union Budget 2025. We expect specific policy support for promoting upstream manufacturing to be announced shortly. We are continuously examining the market landscape and remain open to new growth opportunities offering scale and synergies with our existing business.
Thank you. We are now open for questions.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on their Touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue you may press TA and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Nidhi Shah from ICICI Securities. You may proceed.
Nidhi Shah
Hi. Thank you so much for taking my question. Firstly, on the 125 billion capex that has been announced over the next three years or so I want to know. What was the capex from this 125. That was already undertaken in FY25 and. What will we have in 26 and 27? Basically the phasing or the capex. That is my first question.
Chiranjeev Saluja
Sure. So I’ll allow Vinay to take this question.
Vinay Rustagi
Nidhi. Hi, this is Vinay here. So in terms of the CAPEX, the 4.8 gigawatt cell line and the 5.6 gigawatt module line the bulk of the CAPEX will be incurred in the current financial year because we’re anticipating completion by end of the financial year or early next year for the other businesses capex will be incurred in a scaled manner phase out manner because we are anticipating a phase ramp up of the battery energy storage business as well as the inverter business.
Nidhi Shah
So my second question is on dcr how much percentage of our current order book would be dcr? That is one and secondly that how do we see DCR demand this year in FY26 compared to to how FY25 has been? What can we expect from DCR perspective not only because of the ALM1 kicking. In but even otherwise the existing segment. Of the PM Suryagarh and the Kusumski.
Vinay Rustagi
I think if you see our presentation we have given the order book breakup between sales modules and the EPC business. We don’t we’re not able to unfortunately break down that number in more detail. In terms of DCR versus non DCR. The question was on demand for dcr.
Chiranjeev Saluja
So in terms of demand for DCR the demand envelope remains very very strong. Like we said in the presentation there are three components to demand right now namely the Suryagarh Yojana scheme, the Kusum scheme and the CPSU scheme. Between these three schemes the total demand as per the government targets is about 65 gigawatts over the next two years. Even if we take a slightly realistic and more conservative number there is likely to be very strong demand over the next two years. And then of course the LMM cells being implemented from June 2026 onwards there’ll be more market segments, namely the corporate segment as well as the IPP segment opening up in the next two years.
Nidhi Shah
So just to follow up on what you mentioned that you’re expecting you know, demand from these three different schemes in. Dci have you seen anything coming up. In the first one and a half. Month of this year? Has that been added more inquiries on this type of work? And secondly you mentioned the again the ALM1 kicking in. Have the notifications come out? Have we got any orders pertaining to that? Do we expect this to kick in in June or could there be any delays?
Vinay Rustagi
So I think taking the first question first, yes of course we are seeing more and more customer inquiries for both the schemes particularly Kasudevaryojna and the person’s team in terms of the government policy. So I think that is a hypothetical question. In our view, as I said the demand annual demand expectation is about 30 odd gigawatts from the government policy perspective there is a already we are the domestic cell capacity is about 25 gigawatts more capacity is coming online as we speak and we expect there to be enough capacity by the middle of next year for it to be able to cater to domestic demand.
So as such, plus given the government support for the sector, we don’t see any possibility of any LMM relaxation for sales.
Nidhi Shah
Thank you so much.
Vinay Rustagi
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of the deepakrishnan from Kotak Institutional Equities. You may proceed.
Deepak Krishnan
Hi sir. Am I audible?
Chiranjeev Saluja
Yes, Deepak, you are
Deepak Krishnan
Yeah. So just wanted to first, you know, check on this. Are we going to await any policy support to do this? Because some of the peers have PLI and we don’t currently. So are we going to get some local spec schemes for that? And secondly, on the DSS 12 gigawatt capacity, what are you going to do in terms of, you know, how much is the capex, what level of backward integration? So maybe this is the first question and then I’ll come back for a couple more.
Chiranjeev Saluja
Sure. So for inward wafer, Deepak, we’ve already announced our timelines for setting up the 2 gigawatt wafer facility which is in a JV with SAS of Taiwan. This is plan for commissioning in FY27 and we are seeing a very strong demand for non Chinese wafers in ingot. And to answer your question on specs, yes, we are working with the government for for subsidies through specs. Apart from state government subsidies, we will be evaluating our CAPEX deployment plans on expansion. The target is to achieve 10 gigawatt. We are starting with a 2 gigawatt wafer and as and when we see, you know, plans getting firm, we will update the market on that.
And your next question was on battery? Right on. Best we are getting into to start with a cell to pack manufacturing line along with EPC offerings to our IPP customers. And we will be doing this in two phases. The first phase would come up in FY27 and the second in FY28. Each is going to be a 6 gigawatt hour capacity. And that’s the plan on the base investments. Sure, sir, maybe just on the commissioning of your module and cell line. I think given that, you know, cell is about a quarter lead the 1 gigawatt than what we had initially thought through and we’ve had a change of location for the 4 gigawatt.
How confident are you of achieving the 6.4 capacity by, you know, 2026 is there? Which stabilization we post that or are you implying COD plus stabilization by, you know, June 26? Yeah, so for the 1.4 gigawatt module, it’s already commissioned as we announced in the opening remark. And the 1.2 gigawatt TopCoin cell line is getting commissioned next month, which is well in time compared to the, you know, data which we had shared in the last quarterly results. We had said it will be commissioned by June 26 and it is on track on the 4/4, which has now become 4.8 and 5.6.
That’s enhanced capacity. This is also well on track. Change in location has actually given an advantage rather than a disadvantage because the new location is far more better a site in terms of the land development work to be done and also the connectivity to the substation is far better compared to the earlier site. So we are on track and we don’t anticipate any delays in those projects in terms of commissioning. In fact, we are trying to get the enhanced capacity commission by then. Instead of 4 we would maybe achieve 4.8 and instead of 5 we will achieve 5.6.
Well within the stipulated timelines.
Deepak Krishnan
Sure. And maybe, just maybe just a thought process. Essentially no policy support today in terms of ingot referral or bas would be sort of awaiting anything on that front or will we go ahead and commission irrespective of, you know, any government equivalent policy coming for, you know, domestic sourcing at that particular point of time?
Vinay Rustagi
Yeah, hi, Deepak Bina here. So like we said in the opening remarks, there is a new manufacturing mission, national manufacturing mission being announced by, has been announced by the government. We have been in consultations with MNRE already over the policy support needed for the upstream manufacturing space. And the government is worrying, mulling a set of incentives. It could be a mix of financial incentives, duties and other elements such like measures which will be announced in due course. So we are in consultations with the government and expectations a package to be announced over the next year and all.
Deepak Krishnan
Our expansion is on with essentially the cell is with TOPCON today. Right. And if any change in technology that we look at it in the future or are we adding anything else in some of the newer capabilities as well?
Vinay Rustagi
No, that’s, that’s correct. The current lines are all being set up using Topcon technology. We are having said that we are in parallel doing a lot of work behind the scenes on new technologies. You may have seen last month we signed an MOU with a German company. We are also studying new technologies, whether it is back contact or pair of sky tandem, etc. So we will be anticipating these developments and be ready to Commercialize and set up lines as and when there is a commercial viability.
Deepak Krishnan
Sure. I think just maybe one final question from my end. Just the you know, slight dip in revenue that we’ve seen this quarter versus the previous quarter with similar level of utilizations, our understanding is it’s because of a higher DCR mix versus the previous quarter. Is that sort of a fair understanding?
Vinay Rustagi
So Deepak, this is, I won’t read too much into the small dip that we have seen that can be caused by a number of different factors. One of those being the change in the product mix as you said. But also given that it is year end some clients are hesitant to take deliveries. So I think some shipments have been delayed simply because of that. So I think there are a number of factors but overall I would say in terms of utilization of the line and the product mix there is no major change.
Deepak Krishnan
And any FY26 guidance that we have in mind or no public guidance at this point? No, no.
Vinay Rustagi
I mean look, I think you know, what is the planned delivery of all the new expansion capacities. So you know, what is that order book also? So I think that should be able to give you enough, you know, guidance in terms of numbers. But as such as a company we’re not giving any specific guidance.
Deepak Krishnan
Those are my questions.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bala Murali from Oman Investments. Give a proceed.
Bala Murali
Yeah, good morning.
Vinay Rustagi
Good morning.
Bala Murali
We have big capex plans of 12,500. What could be the asset turn in our business.
Chiranjeev Saluja
Sorry, could you repeat that? We couldn’t hear the second half of your question.
Bala Murali
Yeah, what could be the asset turn for the capex we are going to incur across my assets and how much we can expect in terms of asset terms.
Vinay Rustagi
This is Vinay. So overall of course this depends on how the pricing and the demand envelope shape support over the next three years. But we are expecting based on all this CapEx fixed asset turnover of about between 2.2 to 2.5 times by the end of this implementation program.
Bala Murali
That’s great. Then further by enhancing this ourselves capacity to 6.4 gigawatt in the next basically. So how much it could contribute to margins? Is there any significant, you can expect any significant move in the margins?
Chiranjeev Saluja
Could you be a little closer to the phone? We are not able to hear you clearly.
Bala Murali
Yeah, I’m asking about cell line after we commission the 6.4 gigawatt in upcoming year. So how it will going to impact the margins. So can you expect any significant movement in the margins or it would Similar line as of now.
Vinay Rustagi
So, Bala, I think it is very difficult to predict how the margins are going to be going to play out. It is a very fast moving industry with lot of variables out there. You know, insofar as we have the visibility and the order book which is already committed for the next year, we should be able to by and large maintain our margins, but we are not able to give any guidance as such.
Bala Murali
Okay. And lastly on the execution side, so. Mostly we are focused on the domestic side only. So I think so we are not exporting much to any other countries. So how do the margins as compared to domestic and exports and do we have any plans in the this year or coming year to increase the export content?
Vinay Rustagi
Yeah, so I think in terms of the export markets, I think, you know, US is the main export opportunity for India right now. Although we do hope that Europe and some other countries will open up in future. In US Itself, there is a little bit of a short term uncertainty given the recent tariff moves by the US Government.
We do expect more clarity to come up as the trade treaty with us is signed up over the next few months. US is a market which remains of great interest to us. We have already, as you know, previously announced a 1.2 gigawatt cell venture there and are looking at other business opportunities. So as and when there is more clarity, we will move and move into those projects and capitalizing on those opportunities. Okay, thank you. Yeah. So as of today, you know, over, at least over the foreseeable period, most of our revenue and profit is expected to come from the Indian market.
Bala Murali
Good, good. That’s. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anupam Goswami from Sud Life. You may proceed.
Anupam Goswami
Hi sir. So my first question on the. If you can give some light on the price realization that is going on currently and what sort of spread are we making in the different categories and over the long term, sir, where do we see the capacity of sell coming and how do we see the price movement in the next three to four years?
Vinay Rustagi
Sure. So in terms of the current pricing, I think this is publicly available information. The DCR modules, the general pricing is around 24 to 25 cents. Non DCR modules are at about 17 cents for sales.
Again, there’s a little bit of a variation depending on whether sales are being sold in the Indian market or exports. In the Indian market, prices tend to be around 14 to 15 cents. Export market prices are a little lower. In terms of future trend, I think it is very difficult to say how these Prices will evolve. But insofar as our order book is concerned, this is more or less in line with the prices that I’ve indicated to you.
Chiranjeev Saluja
And just to add to on future, with cell capacities coming in, you know, we feel that we are very well positioned on the three pillars which are required for this business. One is scale, one is the technology and the third is vertical integration. We don’t see any foreseeable risk in the coming two to three years in terms of additional capacities coming in because we feel that these three pillars are very important in terms of success in this business. And Premier is very well positioned on all these three pillars. And the demand also is growing. So we don’t see any major kind of margin erosion coming in because of capacity because several of the announcements which have been made, we feel only about 50% of those will actually come up.
Anupam Goswami
Okay, sir, thank you sir. I’ll turn back.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nikhil Naganya from Bernstein. You may proceed.
Nikhil Nigania
Thank you for taking my question. I just have a follow up on the US market. So while I understand the focus on the domestic market, given the strong realization. And margins here itself, just wanted to. Understand if the proposed anti dumping duties. They have on Southeast Asian players goes through Vietnam, Malaysia, etc. Do you think that could open up a big front for Premier as well as a couple of your competitors have been targeting that space and any particular reason why we have not been that exposed to the US market as some of our peers have been.
Chiranjeev Saluja
So you’re right that the CMTB duties have opened up a big market for Indian players. But as we said earlier, we are committed more to first cater to the domestic demand we are giving. We have always been giving priority to the Indian market.
Not now, but from the last two years since we started making sales. So we. And as far as for the US market, some of our peers are exporting modules. We as a company had a very clear strategy that we would like to restrict ourselves to exporting cells to the US because we do not want to compete with our clients in the U.S. our strategy was clear that it is not easy to make cells and not easy to make good quality, high efficiency cells. We at Premier have achieved this and have been consistently exporting cells to US module manufacturers.
And we feel that it has played out well for us because now in the US market there is almost about close to 30 gigawatt of operational module capacity, but very little cell capacity. Which means that the demand for cells from the US is huge. But we would look at increasing exports to us only when we have our new capacities coming in that is starting June 26th. For now our focus commitment is towards the Indian market and government of India has really supported the manufacturing and we don’t want to, we want to ensure that supplies to the US to the Indian programs are consistent.
Vinay Rustagi
Also just to add Nikhil, I think first of all we remain completely open to, we are actively tracking the US market and we remain open to any such opportunity. But the fact is that beyond CMTV there are other countries which are exporting sales to the us. As I said also earlier, the prices that we realize in the US are lower than in the domestic market. So the domestic market there is a very strong demand plus pricing environment and from a company point of view, you know, that is something which is more conducive to us, more attractive for our business.
So we are deliberately keeping more of a focus on the domestic market. But as and when the market evolves and the US market grows and the pricing is more attractive, they will be ready to effectively tap into that market and supply more volume there.
Nikhil Nigania
Very, very helpful. Thanks for that answer. My second and last question was on the new opportunities being targeted, especially bss. It’s a thought process there that what we have seen happen in solar PV industry with government restricting imports into the country there is a similar expectation we. Have playing out in BSS as well. And that’s a thought process to be an early mover in that space.
Vinay Rustagi
Yeah, sure Nikhil. So you’re right. I think that would be. That’s a pretty logical assumption. The government is very committed to making India. There is a huge amount of investment which is going to go into the storage space and inevitably there would be more indigenization in that space as well. So you know our thought process in terms of the best market is that you know we are initially going to focus on sell two pack container solutions and the EPC business really just to understand the client needs, the technology, the value chain, et cetera.
And it is not, you know, this part of the business is not particularly particularly capital intensive as and when there is a more conducive policy framework that emerges and we feel enough confidence in terms of going further backstream upstream. Sorry. We will examine a further foray into the cell manufacturing business.
Nikhil Nigania
Got it. Those are my questions. Thanks for answering them. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of mayur patel from 361 asset.
Mayur Patel
Hi. Stellar performance Chirindeev and the team. Thanks for the opportunity. Just want to ask 3100 crores of new bookings. So is it fair to assume that some part of that would be also related to the greenfield which is coming in 2026? The cell and the model?
Chiranjeev Saluja
Yeah. So you’re talking about ALM list two, right? The cell one which is going to come up.
Mayur Patel
Yeah. Your greenfield project earlier you were trying to project.
Chiranjeev Saluja
Yes. So yes, the project which is the greenfield project which is coming up there’s a very, very small amount which would spill over into that project.
As of now most of these have timelines of around I would say 12 to 14 months. So what we show in our order book mayur is signed advances received and confirmed order book. This doesn’t include our pipeline. Our pipeline would be almost similar or a little higher than the 5 gigawatt of order book which we have. So there is a lot of pipeline which is under discussion. As and when these get finalized we add them in the order book. And not a significant portion of this order book is from the greenfield project.
Mayur Patel
Correct. So say next three to six months we should expect the pipeline getting converted into bookings related to the greenfield which is going to come in 26.
Right.
Perfect. I’ll join the Q and for more questions and all the best. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sanjam Mukham from JP Morgan. You may proceed.
Sanjam Mukham
Hi, good morning everybody. Couple of questions on your utilization. The cell utilization has remained relatively stagnant at about 74, 75% for two quarters. Is this what we should assume continues in the future or do you expect the utilizations to go up again?
Chiranjeev Saluja
Sanjay, I think you’re talking about module.
Sanjam Mukham
But the module. I beg pardon, I beg the module.
Chiranjeev Saluja
That’s right, yeah. So let me answer this question to you Sanjay. Unlike the cell business, the module business has different customers buying, you know, a different category of products from us. Some buy mono perks, some are moved into top on. In Topcon there is M10, M10 plus size. Then there’s also a G12R. So unlike a cell line where you’re producing one product category 24 hours, 365 days in a module line you would actually require several changeovers depending on customer requirements. So for cell manufacturing we see that the peak could be around 80, 85%. It is at 75 now.
But we don’t expect cell line to go to 95 AS. Sorry, module to go to 95 like cell. Right.
Sanjam Mukham
Thanks for that Shandeep. The second question is, let’s say when. We say that the utilization of the. Cell line was 95% for the quarter. Is it fair to assume that if. I take your capacity of 2 gigawatts. Multiplied by 95 that gives me an estimate of how many cells.
Chiranjeev Saluja
No. No. So this is 95% of effective capacity. Again in a cell line. You’ve got various formats of wafers which you can process. What we are making today is an M10 plus wafer. 2 gigawatt would be based on G12 wafer which is still not under production and is not being used in India. So this is not 95% of 2 gigawatt. It would be 95% of around 1.8 gigawatt. 1.8. 1.85 gigawatt.
Sanjam Mukham
Great. So it will be great if we. Can get some sense of quarterly production of both cells and modules. Right. Because it will help track pricing and margins better for. So perhaps if you could talk about. How many cells and modules produced or sold this quarter, that will be great.
Chiranjeev Saluja
I think we have not been sharing the data in the past two and we don’t intend to, Sanjay, because of confidentiality reasons. We will just be able to give what we are giving as of now every quarter. We would not be very comfortable to share further details. Okay. Okay, thanks.
Sanjam Mukham
Those are my questions. Thanks. Yerush.
Chiranjeev Saluja
Yeah, thank you.
Vinay Rustagi
Can you hear me?
Sanjam Mukham
Yep. Hi, Veda.
Vinay Rustagi
No, this is. Hi. I was just going to say that, you know we’ve given an indication of what the delta between effective capacity and nameplate capacity is. We have given you the capacity based on effective capacity. So I think actually not very difficult to get.
Sanjam Mukham
Of course, of course. Thank you.
Vinay Rustagi
Thank you. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Hemant and individual investor. You may proceed.
Unidentified Participant
Congratulations on stellar set of numbers and thank you for providing with the opportunity. Pardon me. Actually I’m new to the company. I just wanted to clear few things. So first of all is our initial capacity of cell was 2 gigawatt and module was for 4.1 gigawatt. And the plan was to take the cell capacity to 7 gigawatt and module to I guess 9 gigawatt. Right. Out of the 9 gigawatt module capacity we have implemented 1.1 gigawatt. Right. 1.4. 1.4. So I mean I had a look at the investor presentation uploaded. I think yes, that 7 gigawatt cell capacity is still that plus pointed gigawatt will be. We will be adding over and above it.
Vinay Rustagi
That’s correct. Yes.
Unidentified Participant
And then some more also to achieve 10. So we have put a mission 2028, which talks about 10 gigawatt in broad vapor cell and module, which is being announced in the results and the presentation on Saturday. So the 1.4 is already commissioned in terms of module cell weaver at 2. Another 1.2 is getting added next month and then 4.8 getting added instead of 4, which was announced earlier. But the overall target is to achieve 10, 10 gigawatt of cell and 10 gigabyte of module, right?
Vinay Rustagi
That’s right.
Unidentified Participant
So sir, you are saying that 1.4 gigawatt of module has already been added.
And sir, 1.1 will be added in the next month, right? Upsell.
Vinay Rustagi
Yes. 1.2. 1.2 will be added.
Unidentified Participant
So. So what will be the capacity by FY27 then? Because the numbers gets changed, right?
Chiranjeev Saluja
Yes. So 2 is what is operational. 1.2 is getting added, which takes you to 3.2 next month. FY27, we are adding 4.8, which will take you to 8 gigawatts in terms of cell capacity in FY27. And then we have announced another 2 gigawatt, another 1.6 to 2 gigawatt getting added in FY28. If you look at the presentation page number 1818, we have given a very clear roadmap on capacity expansion plans with the dates.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And sir, what will be the module capacity? Sir, by FY27 it will be now, I guess 11 megawatt.
Chiranjeev Saluja
Yeah, it will be 11.1. It will be slightly higher than the 10 which we have a target, but it’s going to be 11.1.
Unidentified Participant
And sir, one, I wanted to ask you. Yeah, yes, sir, I wanted to ask you one more thing like, sir, what is the tenure of the current order book on a blended basin, On a blended basis. And what is the, I mean, order in terms of megawatt which we have executed in the current fiscal year? So the blended basis, the order book Is for about 12 to 15 months.
And if you look at the order, it is about 5.5.3 odd gigawatt, which is the order book, which is shown on slide number 23. And sir, what is the order book in terms of megawatt which we have executed in the FY25?
Vinay Rustagi
You know, that number we are not able to give you, as we said earlier, because we don’t release the actual production numbers or the sales numbers in terms of megawatts.
Unidentified Participant
Actually, just wanted to have an idea.
operator
Hello. Sorry to interrupt. So we request you to join the queue as we have other participants as well.
Unidentified Participant
Okay.
operator
Thank you, sir.
Chiranjeev Saluja
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Drew Muchal from HDFC amc. You may proceed.
Dhruv Muchhal
Yeah, thank you so much sir. So just some understanding on your capex number 12,500 crores. So if I use some industry benchmarks on capex and your ongoing and future expansion plans for sell in module, is it right to understand almost 50% of your total capex plan is X of cells and modules? I mean probably it is going into wafers and Wafer Incorporated and the batteries and others.
Vinay Rustagi
Yeah. Hi Dhruv. So you’re right, I mean in terms of ingot and wafer, the expected CAPEX on a per gigawatt basis is about 400 crores. So for 10 gigawatt you know, that would be about 4,000 crores. And then there will be some topics obviously on best as well as the inverter business. In total, you know the best Capex is about 600 crores for this capacity and for inverters the capex would be about 100 to 150 crores.
Dhruv Muchhal
This is helpful. And the second question was on the wafer expansion that we are the 2 gig wafer expansion that’s progressing. Some understanding on the status of land. I’m not sure if this requires an ec so EC approval, equipment ordering and some other status please.
Chiranjeev Saluja
Yeah, so the plan is to commission the 2 gigawatt in FY27. We have already acquired the land and it’s well in alignment with what we have targeted to commission this line. This is with the Taiwanese company SAS which is a JV and it’s a 2 gigawatt line.
Dhruv Muchhal
So the equipment ordering and everything is all done. And would it require an environment clearance approval? I’m not sure if that is.
Chiranjeev Saluja
It would require from the state. It’s in process and it will be, you know, well on time to be obtained on time.
Dhruv Muchhal
And sir, earlier. So I’m still trying to understand. What we used to understand was there is a specific size for any polysilicon or wafer plant. Some industry, you know, some readings suggested it’s about 5 or 10 gigawatt. So does 2 gigawatt. I mean I’m just trying to understand you’re going ahead with a 2 gigawatt plant.
Chiranjeev Saluja
So just the target and the mission 28 talks of 10 gigawatt.
Dhruv Muchhal
Okay, okay. So the specific size can be lower and it does not impact the economics of a project.
Chiranjeev Saluja
The land has been acquired for entire 10 kilohert.
Vinay Rustagi
Yeah, so to answer line size can be lower but it is the procurement efficiencies Etc which do make the operations optimal and which we will achieve over a period of three years.
Dhruv Muchhal
Okay, and the last two questions is just a small point on the CWIP in your balance sheet. It’s about 240 odd crore. If I see the numbers, I’m just wondering your cell line is yet to commission I think about 1.4 gigawatt and the module line, I’m not sure if it commissioned in effect, I mean before the March quarter end or not. So the CWIP number seems low. So have you already capitalized a portion of the CAPEX for the cell line or just the payments are pending and hence it will all come up next year?
Chiranjeev Saluja
No. So we have not capitalized on the cell. The module line was also not commissioned before March, it was commissioned on 16th May and we have not capitalized.
Dhruv Muchhal
So in that context the CWIP number seems low. So it’s just because the cash pending is coming in the next year and hence everything or I’m just trying to understand have the, has the CAPEX amount come come down significantly for the projects?
Chiranjeev Saluja
So yeah, yeah there are payments due to vendors and that’s why everything is not being capitalized. It’s not, the number is lower in cw.
Dhruv Muchhal
It’s not showing any. Got it. And so last question on the US market outlook. So what we understand is the duties in some of the Southeast Asian region countries where US was importing a large quantum are already in place and provisional duties are already there. Some final announcements are pending and China is already there and India’s positioning related to some of the other regions seems very strong. I’m just trying to as you mentioned 30 gigawatt of modules there in US so I’m just wondering, aren’t you seeing a lot of inquiries from the US companies to source sales and I’m not sure if pricing can be better in the US market now given the shortages that they are likely to face.
So what am I missing here? I mean just trying to understand, I understand the focus on India but at least from an inquiry level and others are you seeing that feelers from the market.
Vinay Rustagi
So Dhruv, you’re right. I think all the factors you already mentioned, I think what is missing is a long term predictability of the, of the tariff regime. Right. So I think the problem is that these changes have been coming so thick and fast that everybody is kind of really sitting back a little bit and just trying to make sure they understand the market landscape. Of course there is also a trade treaty with the US under negotiation. So I think Both from the customer side in the US as well as the supplier side. For us I think it is better to wait a little bit before we fully understand the market landscape and you know, start discussing order book. So that is the kind of little hold up.
Dhruv Muchhal
So it’s a wait and watch situation both with the customer, with you. Okay, got it. Sure sir, that’s very helpful. Thanks. And all the best.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Akash Mehta from Canada HSBC Life. You may proceed.
Akash Mehta
Hi. So my first question is on, I mean leverage. I mean what kind of debt to equity or debt to EBITDA? Net debt to EBITDA. We are kind of targeting with the ongoing CapEx by maybe fiscal 27 or 28. So yeah, that’s my first question.
Vinay Rustagi
Sure, Akash. So you know, based on the modeling that we have done internally, first of all we expect to be able to fund all the capex using internal accruals and cash on borrow. Our expectation is that the total leverage will peak out at about 1.4 to 1.5 times in terms of debt to equity and about 2 times in terms of debt to EBITDA. So, you know, both of which we feel are fairly conservative numbers and easily manageable in the context of the larger industry parameters.
Akash Mehta
Okay, that’s helpful. And my second question is in terms of the upstream investments that we are making or backward integration, what kind of sustainable margins we can kind of expect? I mean earlier the expectations were low, but I think we might end up getting slightly better realizations or some cost savings as well because of our investments. So I mean, maybe by fiscal 28, 29, what kind of sustainable one is that we can look at for Premier? I mean, going ahead?
Vinay Rustagi
Yeah, Akash, so I think, you know, that is a very interesting question and I think, you know, we would love to know the answer to be honest ourselves, but we don’t. You know, like I said earlier, there are so many changes in the industry. It’s very, very dynamic. So it is impossible to kind of predict what kind of how the margins will evolve. You know, our expectation is that in the cell and module business we would be able to by and large sustain our margins over the next three years. Even for all the modeling and the market assessment that we have done for the PES and the inverter business.
You know, that is also very, very attractive in terms of EBITDA margins as well as return on capital employed. I think for the upstream business, the ingot wafer business, much of it depends on how the policy Framework shapes up. So I think it is impossible to give you any kind of guidance or expectation on that number.
Akash Mehta
I mean since this would be like an integrated thing. So I mean we could expect a decent margin expansion at least from what we are right on the cell and module front.
Vinay Rustagi
Yeah. So I think again that would be the logical assumption. But as I said, there are so many other moving parts to this. Right. In terms of demand, supply, envelope technology, outlook, customer expectations, etc. So it’s not just one factor. There are so many other variables which will affect the margin and hence it is difficult to take any reasonable guess at it.
Akash Mehta
Okay, that’s it from my side. Thank you. Thanks.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Saram Jogalekar from Vimana Capital. You may proceed.
Sarang Joglekar
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. This is regarding the 14th slide in the investors presentation about the demand for DCR modules. You stated that for the next two years there’s going to be significant demand 27 from PM Suryagar and 30 from Kusum. So I mean I believe that was the total demand over three years and a lot of it was installed last year also. Right. So do you still think that another 50 gigawatt of DCR will be there over next two years?
Vinay Rustagi
So you know, sorry, I did not get your name but I think the numbers that we have given are based on the government schemes and their targets.
So you know, looking at each of them one by one, in the Suryagarh Yojana, there’s a target of 1 crore installations out of which only 10 lakh odd have been done till date. So 90% of the demand is still yet to come. Similarly in the Kusum program if you look at the actual execution on the ground out of the 35 gigawatts of target installations are only currently about 4 to 5 gigawatts. So there is a lot of projects have been bid and allocated post auctions. There is a lot of capacity under execution. So 30 gigawatts of actual module demand is yet to come to the market.
Similarly likewise for the 5 gigawatt CPSU scheme. Now these are government numbers and we are not saying that this will be the actual capacity execution. That will of course depend on a few factors. But even if you take slight moderation in these numbers in terms of realistic on the ground development, there is a very robust demand environment.
Sarang Joglekar
Got it.
Vinay Rustagi
So. Please. Yeah, please go ahead. No, I was just saying these are only in terms of element sales being applicable right now but that will also become applicable to the corporate market. From next year, wherein we expect demand to start materializing from Q1 of the next financial year. And even taking into account the delays in the utility scale market, we do expect that market also to start becoming like 100% DCR market from 2027 onwards. So as we go forward, the DCR demand is likely to keep on increasing over time. Got it. Also, there was some problem around delay in signing the PPAs.
Do you see that affecting the solar demand? Look, you know, to be honest, I think that that is a big red herring in the sector. It is causing a lot of confusion unfortunately. But if you look at the reality, the government has auctioned about 90 gigawatts of projects in the last two financial years. That is basically all solar, wind and hybrid projects. The actual number that will translate into demand is expected to be much higher because many of these projects, the hybrid projects are typically oversized 1.5 to 2.5 times. Now, even if 40 gigawatts of PPS has not been signed as per the news headlines, I’m looking at it as a positive in the sense that 50 gigawatts of PPS have been signed which itself would translate into solar demand of about 50 to 55 gigawatts over the next three years in addition to all the demand which is there from the projects which have been auctioned in the past.
And like you see on the slide number 14, we have said that the utility scale solar demand will be 20 gigawatts plus per annum. So I think if you see what is in the pipeline by way of projects being auctioned and the PVAs being signed, that provides us with a very healthy demand outlook for the market.
Sarang Joglekar
Got it. Thank you. That’s it from my side.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kartik Sharma from Anand Sati. You may proceed.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, I hope I’m audible. Congratulations on a great set of numbers and thank you for taking my question. So you gave, you gave a breakup to the previous gentleman about the capex that you have best of 600 crores, inverters of 150 crores. Just in a similar way, if you could give us a timeline breakup of that capex then that would be very helpful. That is my first question. My second question is how much of your cells are captive as of now and what kind of realization do you see for modules and for sales when you sell them and how it will be going forward.
So on the capex front we have already given you data in terms of, you know, the investments which you’re Making in the, you know, battery and inverter business. We’ve also given details as to when what capacity is coming up. So I think the numbers are quite clear. And in terms of captive consumption, around 50% of the cells, what we produce goes into captive consumption for DCR modules. And I think Vinay also shared the market prices for all these products. Dcr, non DCR and the cell realization.
Chiranjeev Saluja
But also, you know, just to add to that, the share of captive consumption for sales will go up over a period of time over the next two years because like I said, by 2027 the entire market is expected to be almost, I would say 100% DCR. So we will go from 50% captive consumption to 100% over these two years.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, thank you so much. Just one follow up question like how you said that you prone your effective capacity, that is of 2 gigawatts of cell. You, you take 95% of the 1.8 gigawatts and not the 2 gigawatts. So how is that for the module? So for the module it is about 75% what we are as of today. And we have said that the peak we could achieve is around 80, 85. And that is also the similar thing. If you produce a G12 cell module, that is the installed capacity and if you’re producing an M10 or M10 plus which is a slightly smaller size of wafer, then the effective capacity comes down.
And when we talk of, you know, utilization, we always talk of what we have achieved on the effective capacity and not on the name plate. Right. Okay, thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mohnish Dudwala from Axia Asset Management. You may proceed.
Mohnish Dudhwala
Yeah. Good morning, sir.
Chiranjeev Saluja
Good morning. Good morning.
Mohnish Dudhwala
Yes. So just wanted to understand regarding our realization. So our order book, which is a 5.3 gigawatt, right. And in value terms it is around 8 double 4 by crores. So which makes our realization of around 15.9 rupees per watt. And as you said that current DCR realizations prevailing in the market are 24 cents per watt, which are around 21 rupees per watt. So can you help me understand difference regarding the gap between the two.
Chiranjeev Saluja
So if you see There is a 27% split in the order book for sales and sales is much lower. Right. So what you are calculating is the average price we have not given a breakup of the dcr, non DCR and the cell capacity is already being shown on the screen.
Vinay Rustagi
Yeah. So I think, you know, I think the difference Is that you are working with a weighted average price. But of course in terms of the order book, there is a difference between cells DCR and non DCR module. And with the prices that we’ve already given to you. So that explains the difference between the average prices and the individual product prices.
Mohnish Dudhwala
Sure, understood. So out of this 5.3 gigawatt it is split between modules as well as cells and similar with the value. That’s why the difference and the module. Includes DCR and non DCR. Both majority of our module would be dcr, right?
Vinay Rustagi
Not necessary. And we would like to project it the way it is. We do not want to give a breakup there.
Mohnish Dudhwala
Okay, sure. That’s all from my side. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mayank Bhandari from Asian Market. You may proceed.
Unidentified Participant
Just on the growth guidance. Now what kind of guidance you would like to give for FY26 and 27 based on the capacity expansion we are doing?
Vinay Rustagi
Yeah, Hi Mayank. So you know, we do not give out any specific numbers in terms of guidance. But I think a very strong indication is available in the form of order book which is all due for execution over the next 12 to 14 months. And we’ve already talked about our capacity, the envelope over the next year, the current prices and the order books. So that should give you a reasonable visibility into the revenues as well as the profit numbers for the next year.
Vinay Rustagi
And in terms of margin, if we’re looking forward to so much of backward integration, any long term margin expectation next three, four years. So we already covered this question a few times. I think it is very difficult to predict how the margins will play out over the next three to four years because there are so many changes in the market all the time. I think the key question is what is our competitive position in the sector?
And there, because of the huge strength that we have built into the business over the last few years in terms of and the continuing investments in new capacities, backward integration, technology, upgradation, et cetera. I think the focus for us is to protect our competitive positions, position and be close to the market, anticipate the market needs and being able to respond to that.
And we believe that that will provide us, you know, with a very strong position in terms of revenues as well as profit margins, etc. And that is where the focus is.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And just lastly, if you could just give a brief on like just give a proportion of FY27 revenue that probably in terms of sale, cell module and wafer, just a brief. I mean Just a guesstimate would work. And the composition of the revenue?
Vinay Rustagi
No, I think, you know, I would love to give you that number, but, you know, unfortunately we can’t. FY27 is still like more than is about a year away. Right. So in terms of. Most of the orders are yet to be booked. But again, you have a clear visibility in terms of how a capacity envelope is going to shape up because of all these projects that we are working on. So we would expect the revenues and profit numbers to move accordingly.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sir, thank you. That’s it. From my side.
operator
Thank you. Due to time constraint. That was the last question. I now hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Vinay Rustagi
So thank you very much. It’s been a fantastic year of performance for the company. I think our focus as we go forward is one on executing all the projects on time and on budget. We are very focused also on making sure that we are maintaining our leadership position in the industry and continually examining new opportunities. So, you know, that is where the focus is and we would expect to stay as one of the preferred suppliers to capitalize on the emerging opportunities and the growing demand in the sector. Thank you.
operator
Thank you on behalf of ICICI Securities. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.