Note: This is a preliminary transcript and may contain inaccuracies. It will be updated with a final, fully-reviewed version soon.
Piramal Pharma Ltd (NSE: PPLPHARMA) Q4 2026 Earnings Call dated Apr. 29, 2026
Corporate Participants:
Gagan Borana — Head of Investor Relations and Enterprise Risk Management
Nandini Piramal — Chair Person
Peter DeYoung — Chief Excutive Officer
Vivek Valsaraj — President and Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Avnish Barman — Analyst
Shyam Srinivasan — Analyst
Abdul Kadar Puranwala — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Unidentified Participant
Harith Mohammed — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Tushar Manudane — Analyst
Alankar Garud — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Vinod Sohanlal Jain — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and Gentlemen, good morning and welcome to the Piramal Pharma Ltd. Q4FY26 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will remain in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal the operator by pressing Star then zero on your touch tone telephone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I will now hand the conference over to Mr.
Gagan, head of Investor Relations and Enterprise Risk Management for opening remarks. Thank you. And over to you.
Gagan Borana — Head of Investor Relations and Enterprise Risk Management
Thank you Ryan Good morning everyone. I welcome you all to our Post Results Earnings Conference Call to discuss our Q4FY26 results. Our results material have been uploaded on our website and you may like to download and refer them during our discussion. Today’s discussion may include some forward looking statements and these must be viewed in conjunction with the risk that our business faces. On the call today we have with us our Chairperson Ms. Nandini Piramal, CEO Global Pharma, Mr. Peter DeYoung and our CFO Mr.
Vivek Valsaraj. With that I would like to hand it over to Ms. Nandini Piramal to share her thoughts.
Nandini Piramal — Chair Person
Good day everyone and thank you for joining us for our post Results Earnings Score FY26 was a transitional year for the company marked by a combination of external headwinds and deliberate strategic actions that we believe will position us well for the next phase of growth. During the year we were impacted by macroeconomic uncertainties, subdued biopharma funding in the first half, inventory restocking and key on patent commercial products and intensified competition in inhalation anesthesia in the non U S markets.
As a result, we reported a year on year decline in revenues and ebitda. However, when adjusted for the impact of destocking, our underlying performance was more resilient with the business delivering modest growth in both revenues and EBITDA for the year. But despite these near term challenges, we made significant progress that has put us in a stronger footing for FY27 and beyond. These include a strong pickup in RFPs and order inflows for our CDMO business in the second half of FY26, especially for our overseas sites which have a superior gross margin profile Expansion of our CDMO commercial team to engage with more clients in key regulated markets for the US and Egypt, strengthening execution across our network sites to ensure customer delight the completion of the Kenalog acquisition at the start of the year, steady ramping up of our sevofluorane supplies to ex US Markets from diclon and continued momentum in our consumer business led by the Power Brands and the E Commerce Channel.
These factors put together give us the confidence that we’re well positioned to return to healthy early to mid teen revenue growth. With EBITDA and PATH growing faster in FY27 on quality and regulatory compliance, we continue to demonstrate strong performance. During FY26 we successfully completed 38 regulatory inspections including three US FDA inspections without any official action indicated observations sustaining a best in class Track record of 0 OAI. In addition, we underwent 209 customer audits during the year compared to 165 in the previous year.
This marks the highest number of customer audits completed in a single year in our history, reflecting heightened customer engagement, deeper technical interactions and the growing complexity of programs that we support. Sustainability continues to remain key focus for us. During the year we made strong progress against identified priorities decarbonization, reducing freshwater intake, responsible waste management, diversity and inclusion and belonging strengthening our supply chain practices, employee safety and CSR initiatives.
This commitment was also reflected in our improved ESG rating and with a score of 68.5 from SES ESG Research and 64 from NSE Sustainability Ratings. Moving on to Business Specific Highlights Starting with our CDMO business Our CDMO business reported revenues of 1708 crores in the fourth quarter of FY26 and 4915 crores for the full year. Adjusting for the impact of temporary destocking, the business delivered modest revenue growth during the first. During the year, growth was impacted by macroeconomic uncertainties and slower RFPs and order inflows in the first half on the account of subdued biopharma funding.
However, with biopharma funding rebounding significantly in the second half, we witnessed a clear acceleration in RFP activity and order flow. This gives us confidence that we’re poised for healthy revenue and ebitda growth in FY27. Importantly, we’re seeing a strong pipeline of RFPs at our overseas sites which if converted to orders, should help scale revenues and unlock operating leverage. During the year, we further strengthened our commercial teams and undertook restructuring to align with evolving demand patterns and changing market demand dynamics.
These actions should help us deepen and sharpen our customer focus in key regulated markets of the US and eu, improve order prioritization and enhance speed of response. During the year, we also saw better RFP to order conversion rates, especially with new customers. If we maintain this momentum with the open RFPs, we should have a healthy order book for FY27 and beyond which is an important determinant of our medium term growth trajectory. On the development pipeline. We’re working with more than 155 molecules with 25 currently in phase three.
These phase three programs represent a strong source of future on patent commercial opportunities. In terms of innovation, 47% of our FY26 CDMO revenues came from innovation related work with 96 million contributed by on patent commercial manufacturing. While this represented a year on year decline on a reported basis due to the temporary destocking in one product, we saw strong growth across commercial programs. Demand for differentiated capabilities remains high, especially for ADC’s HPAPI onshore sterile fill finish and onshore drug stumps.
To capitalize on this demand, we’ve been investing steadily a 90 million investment to expand sterile injectables and payload linker capabilities of the Lexington and Riverview sites remains firmly on track. The Riverview expansion has already been completed and is supporting customer requirements while the larger Lexington phase is progressing as planned and is targeting for completion by the end of calendar year 2027. During the year our execution improved meaningfully with stronger performance across key operational KPIs including OTIF, RFT campaign readiness and schedule adherence driven by our operational excellence initiatives.
As a result, we achieved a net promoter score of 60, surpassing the industry average and reflecting high levels of customer satisfaction. We remain confident in the long term growth prospects of the global CVMO network and continue to support this conviction through timely investments in capacity and capability expansion. In an evolving geopolitical environment, our onshore manufacturing facilities have gained increasing relevance and are well positioned to benefit from customer preference for resilient and geographically diversified supply chains.
Moving on to our complex hospital business Complex Hospital generics in the Inhalation Anesthesia we continue to strengthen our leadership profile in the mature US market with market share increasing to 47% compared to 45% in March 2024. Performance in Rest of world markets however, remained impacted by intensified competition. While sevoflurane supplies for these markets have commenced from our lower cost Pickwell facility, Traction is expected to build progressively regulatory approvals in the intrathecal segment.
We maintained our number one position in Baclofen in the US reaffirming our leadership in this hyper entry barrier category. Within injectable pain management, we’re working with our supplier to supply to resolve supply constraints. New product launches will be an important driver of growth in the CHE business. In line with this, we recently completed the acquisition of Kenalog from BMS with revenue contribution expected to commence in Q2 of the financial year. Successful integration of the product in our portfolio will be critical given its manufacturing complexity.
Kenalog has limited competition and carries healthy EBITDA margins in line with the CHG business. In terms of differentiated specialty products, we continue to invest in 505 programs, complex generics, differentiated generics and select branded products. These are pursued through in licensing arrangements and co development partnerships to support long term growth. We have already entered into partnerships with few products which are expected to begin contributing over the medium term. These products are well aligned with our existing portfolio and distribution footprint, leveraging a strong hospital network and offering meaningful barriers to entry to product complexity.
Differentiation of supply capabilities Moving to our Consumer Healthcare we continue to deliver strong and consistent growth in our consumer healthcare business, recording 17% growth in Q4FY26 as well as for the full year driven by broad based performance across the portfolio in our key representative markets. This has translated into a growth with approximately twice the market rate, reflecting continued gains in penetration and brand presence. Our power brand sustained their Momentum, delivering approximately 26% growth in Q4 and 24% growth for the full year.
Key brands including Lidl’s, Racto, Calamine, CIR and Irange outperformed the market and continue to gain traction across channels and geographies. Several of our brands also crossed important milestones during the year, highlighting a strong consumer acceptance in a fast growing segment. During the year, we sharpened our focus on improving profitability and calibrated our strategy accordingly, anchored around two key pillars. First, we’re driving product premiumization by launching increasingly high value offerings aligned with evolving consumer preferences, enabling superior margins while addressing the upper segments of the consumption pyramid.
Second, we’re shifting towards fewer but higher impact launches with a focus on quality and scale over volume and targeting categories with larger addressable market opportunities to ensure sustainable and profitable growth. Our E commerce business has remained a key growth driver, recording 48% growth during the year and now accounting for nearly 30% of total PCH sales. We maintained a calibrated and disciplined approach to media and trade promotion investments during the year, ensuring consistent and impactful brand engagement across the channel.
Our marketing initiatives span television, social media, influencer campaigns and regional activations, strengthening consumer connect across demographics and geographies in terms of our distribution network. While E commerce is gaining a lot of traction, we’re also simultaneously increasing our presence in the general trade such as chemist and cosmetic stores, general trades, small towns and cities, and hypermarkets and supermarkets. Summarizing the performance to summarize, FY26 was a year of Recalibration shaped by external disruptions and certain business specific factors.
Despite these challenges, we exited the year on a stronger note. We’re seeing positive leading indicators and expect FY27 to mark a return to growth. We’re currently anticipating revenue growth in the early to mid teens with EBITDA expected to grow faster than revenue supported by operating leverage. This outlook excludes any revenue contribution from the previously destocked on patent commercial product. While we remain mindful of the continued macroeconomic volatility, our underlying business is improving consistent with historical patterns.
Revenues expected to be H2 weighted reflecting CDMO order delivery schedules and the ongoing catalog integration. Growth momentum is progressive, expected to build progressively from Q2 onwards resulting in a meaningful improvement in full year pat in ebitda. As visibility improves over the course of the year and depending on how the macro environment involves, we will reassess and update our guidance as appropriate. At this stage, the trajectory is positive with increasing optionality to deliver improved outcomes as conditions become more supportive.
With this, I’d like to open the floor for Q and A. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use their handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We take the first question from the line of British Nirala from 3P Investment Managers.
Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, good morning. Do we see any visibility in resumption of supply for our most important on patent commercial product? And second question is what specific steps we are taking to address the decline in CDMO revenue and when we expect normalization.
Peter DeYoung
So as mentioned in Anthony’s comments earlier is that at the moment we do not anticipate any orders in the near term from that customer and if and when that changes you will see that in our forward looking performance. The second one is that also as mentioned excluding that product with that customer, even last year we were in a growth mode for the CDMO and we expect healthy growth as we look ahead due to the factors that Nandini mentioned which would be related to the improvement in biotech funding that happened in H2 which then led to a increase in RFPs which then led to an increase in order booking which was supported with a higher win rate than prior periods and as we expect and hope that that will sustain into the year as we go ahead we should See that support of return to growth absent corrections or one offs in the year FY27.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, thanks for taking my questions.
Operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Avnish Barman from Vicaria Investment Management. Please go ahead.
Avnish Barman
Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. If you can just articulate the impact of the Middle east crisis on business and it could be like multi phased based on the raw material shortages or even the raw material price increases, the freight increases or the insurance increases. Just wanted to understand across various businesses how the contracts are structured. Who’s taking this pain or is it being shared? Just some color on that please.
Vivek Valsaraj
So, hi Avnish. Across the broader operating environment the initial assumption was the impact of this Middle east situation would possibly be contained. But as we see it has prolonged longer than what was initially anticipated. And it’s becoming evident that some of these effects would remain prolonged and there would be implications on sourcing utilities, logistics, working capital, a host of other areas as you alluded to. So yes, in the immediate term for us as perambul, we expect the operations to remain manageable but there would be some cost escalations and we have to wait and see because the situation is still what we are parallel doing is to ensure that all the mitigation measures have been proactively activated and this includes but not limited to also relooking at some passing on some of these cost pressures wherever our contractual structures permit to do that.
So it’s going to be a mix of multiple initiatives Avnish to try and mitigate and we are taking a close look at the developments and our actions will be aligned with how the situation emerges.
Avnish Barman
Yeah, thanks Vivek. Just to follow up on that, just if you have to rank your businesses in terms of ease of passing on these costs to your customers, what would be like the business where it’s hard, what would be the business where it’s easy? Some qualitative color on that.
Vivek Valsaraj
Obviously the PCH business is to some extent going to be impacted to the extent the way the currency will impact the PCH business and there we’ll have to see what we do and how the market reacts as well. But coming to the other two larger businesses it’s completely going to be customer based and our long term relationships with each customer and what the contractual arrangements are Avnish. So I wouldn’t say that one business probably is more different than the other. It’s going to be more case by case basis depending upon the product, the arrangements, etc.
Avnish Barman
Okay, thanks Vivek. I’LL get back in the queue.
Operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Shyam Srinivasan from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Shyam Srinivasan
Yeah, good morning. Thank you for taking my question. Just on your ADC slide, I think you quantified ADC revenues are about 64 million. So just want to understand the outlook for this piece. Say what was this number in 25? Has it grown? There’s a lot of interest in this space, especially from both big pharma as well. So just want to understand or if you could illustrate some of the projects that we’ve been talking about, obviously without taking names, but just want to understand how should we look at the outlook for this and is it a meaningful growth driver when we look forward?
Peter DeYoung
We thought you may notice this in the investor deck. Thank you for pointing it out. We’re very excited with what we have going on in ADCs and we’ve added a number of new customers to our set of customers this fiscal year. And so with those additions we would anticipate this number to be a meaningful driver of our growth in the short and medium term. And we would anticipate this number going up in FY27 8 and beyond. And some of our recent phase three additions would be including products for this offering.
And so we are excited with what we have going on here and we look forward to sharing more in the future.
Shyam Srinivasan
And Peter, just one quick double click on this. So the slide talks about multiple services. In your opinion, what do innovators value the most? Is it conjugation services or is it payload? And where is the large part of the TAM from a CDMO perspective trying to offer service already? So where does it lie and how is somebody like Piramil positioned for it?
Peter DeYoung
So I’d say at least in our experience, the most intense discussions happen around who is the best partner for the conjugation, which is where we get the largest share of our revenue. And it’s the area where you need to have as a CDMO a track record and capability to support the types of conjugations you want to do. And so this has been our historical area of strength. And this is an area that we think is a key area of differentiation when a potential client were to choose between, say, us in an alternative.
While the MAB contribution may be larger in value, there seem to be many providers for mab, and in that construct the differentiation between MAP providers may be lesser. And so our experience has been the conjugation is the anchor and then you can attach the other three services Based on the preferences of the customer for single provider versus line by line procurement. In VC we see both modes of interaction. But we do think that again to repeat the anchor for CDMO selection is and remains the conjugation as the primary focal point.
Shyam Srinivasan
Thank you. And my last question is to Vivek, just Vivek, when you go to slide 18 just subsequently you have listed out all your plans, right? And I think one of the thesis for Pyramid was also around overseas facilities and how their profitability is flat, improving, declining, whatever. So when we look at 26 over 25 and maybe some outlook on 27 as well, how are these facilities doing either in terms of utilization levels, maybe as an aggregate, if you don’t want to give site specific numbers, what has been the improvement, what has been the narrowing or reduction in losses if any?
Right. And on shoring has been a theme I’ve noticed multiple times being mentioned even in the opening speech as well as investor presentation. So is there a durable trend towards getting this utilization at these sites higher? So let me. Those are my questions. Thank you.
Vivek Valsaraj
Yeah, sure. So let me first talk about FY26. FY26 has been a mixed year for our overseas facilities. In fact, several of our facilities both in the UK and in North America did demonstrate growth and this came from eliminating interest in the specific niche capabilities that those sites had to offer. So when you eventually get to see the financials when they are uploaded for the year ended March 26, you will see that several sites did show a decent turnaround versus what it was. And as you rightly alluded to, we are seeing interest whether it’s in our ADC space or whether it’s in our high potent API space or in our injectable space.
And Lexington we are seeing a lot of interest and we do expect the growth momentum to continue in FY27 as well.
Peter DeYoung
I just want to add one bit to this, which is connecting some of the dots you would have heard in both Vivek’s and Nandini’s comments is that our overseas sites typically have a higher gross margin and we are seeing significant RFP inflow and also some recent order wins in the back end of last fiscal year. And this is driven by one thing that Vivek mentioned, which is the capabilities we have we think are intrinsically attractive. That’s why we have the facilities. And the second one is the general onshoring push is significant as a tailwind.
And put together we’re seeing even with what we ended in FY26, we would anticipate all of our overseas sites, but especially those in the US and UK to benefit from this combination of factors. And so we with that again, higher gross margin and more differentiated offerings, we should see an FY27 subsequent improvement in these sites.
Shyam Srinivasan
And lastly, just on data keeping just the intangible, write down that we have taken 176crore. Can you qualitatively give some more details please? Thank you.
Vivek Valsaraj
So Shyam aligned with our long range plan, we have been prioritizing where exactly we spend our capital on and in respect of certain intangibles which were under development, where the market and the macro conditions changed meaningfully versus what was originally envisaged and where the potential financial outcomes did not meet our return ratios, we decided not to put in more capital in those spaces and take an impairment at one go. Great, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Abdul Kadar Puranwala from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Abdul Kadar Puranwala
Yeah, so the first question is with regards to financial. Abdul,
Operator
I do apologize to interrupt you but your audio is not coming in clear. Could you please use your handset?
Abdul Kadar Puranwala
Sure. Is this better now?
Operator
This is better. Please go ahead.
Abdul Kadar Puranwala
Yeah, so my first question was with regards to your standalone financials and commentary on overseas plant. So just trying to build up a bridge here. So when I look at your standalone financials, I think this quarter you raised up then 20 odd percent while on a consolid basis the margins are a little lower. So just wanted to get some sense on how things look at a console level and where exactly there is still some room to improvise margins.
Vivek Valsaraj
Yeah, so Abdul, first, as you know that, and we’ve been talking about this narrative that at scale our operating margins shoot up and that’s precisely seen every year in quarter four in India as you have rightly identified that because of a higher quantum of revenue, the standalone financials show better EBITDA margin as far as overseas is concerned. As I responded to Shyam earlier, it’s been mixed. So some sites have seen higher quantum of sales in quarter four and some sites have not, which is why it’s a mixed performance and that’s why the margins have remained slightly lower as far as our overseas facilities are concerned.
It’s just a question of scale. As we start building more from some of these overseas facilities, you will see improvement in the margins going forward.
Abdul Kadar Puranwala
Understood. And my second question with regards to your on patent commercial manufacturing. So firstly, if you can provide some color on how many products you’re supplying currently and second is with regards to, you know, even after listing for that one time inventory related assessment, you know, I think there has been some growth. So if you could highlight, you know, what’s driving that and for next year, how are we looking at in terms of revenues from this segment, any, you know, launches into the pipeline, if you could provide any color on that front.
Peter DeYoung
So if you adjust for the one time situation described, we would have nearly 50% growth in revenue from unpatent commercial products from last year to this year that just completed. And the number of products is I think between 15 and 16 in the two years. So we think that that demonstrates that it’s a more broad based set of commercial products this year and we would anticipate that to continue to become broader and continue to grow as we look ahead. And so we would expect as you look into FY27 and beyond that you would see less of a single product concentration and we would see multiple drivers here.
Abdul Kadar Puranwala
Fair enough. And this last one, if I may. So if I look at your FY26 financials, balance sheet and cash flows, there has been a sizable improvement in working capital. So you know, going ahead, you know, how should we look at the working capital days, is there still some scope for, you know, you guys to realign your overall working capital and you know, in terms of cash flows and debt repayment, how should we look at from a two year perspective?
Vivek Valsaraj
So Abdul, first, you’re right that there has been a very conscious effort to manage the overall balance sheet. So whether it’s collection of receivables or negotiating better payment terms with vendors, or optimizing our inventory on all of those fronts as well as other allied factors like the GST credit refunds, because we are net exporters, we have tried to ensure that all of them flow in and that’s kind of helped improve the situation. And the intent is obviously to continue this momentum. But I’m saying this with a lot of caution because we are in a volatile environment and currently depending upon how the overall West Asia situation evolves, there may be a need to carry some extra inventory or there may be some kind of working capital block that might happen.
So we’ll have to try and see how we monitor the situation. Our net debt to EBITDA as we close this particular financial year, we were at 3.6 and we do expect to be remaining in this range basis of full year number for next year as well. Though of course the long term intent is to bring this down to close to 1. But because we have this ongoing capex which we have announced we will see a slightly elevated levels currently in the immediate term.
Abdul Kadar Puranwala
Understood, sir. Thank you and wish you all the best.
Operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Naveen Baird from Nuama. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Apologies for missing your opening remarks. Just wanted to confirm deadly guide for sort of, you know, mid teens kind of revenue growth for FY27. Did I hear that correct?
Vivek Valsaraj
Yeah, Navneet. So we’ve guided for an early to mid teens kind of growth with EBITDA growing faster and Pat Growing Limited for FY27.
Unidentified Participant
Got it, got it. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Binobati Parampil from Elara Capital. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, good morning. A follow up question on the guidance this Earlit mix is that in INR terms or constant currency?
Vivek Valsaraj
That’s in INR terms menu.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. So INR if it stays at current levels, 6, 7% growth should come from just that. So the constant currency would be that much less from the guidance can I assume so.
Vivek Valsaraj
The only thing to note is that obviously when we did our estimates and budgets for next year, the overall currency INR was at a certain level lower than what it is today. So we already have some kind of natural buffer that’s got built in because the rupee depreciated further to the dollar.
Unidentified Participant
Understood. What would be the capex number for 27?
Vivek Valsaraj
So you know, for FY26, the year that closed by, we had guided for between 100 to 125 million and we closed at about 94. So there’s some spillover that will happen from from the current year to the next. At this stage we are expecting a capex of about 120 to 135 million for FY27. Largely a part of it will be towards the Lexington expansion which is currently ongoing. And this does not include what we have spent on the Kenalog acquisition or in case we manage to do similar kind of deals. That’s not included in this.
Unidentified Participant
Understood. And one last question on tax rate at the console level for the quarter it has kind of normalized to about 25%. So has it normalized at the consolidated level or will it be fluctuating like last few quarters?
Vivek Valsaraj
So that just builds the narrative that we’ve always been saying that at scale we will have peak and competitive operating margins which are in the high teens plus and similarly tax rates would be in the 24 to 25% range. Now this, as you can see, historically we’ve had Revenues and EBITDA is more skewed towards H2 and more specifically quarter four, which is why you see this. It’s not fully normalized. In the interim period, you will see elevated ETR’s on a full year basis. But as we gain scale across especially our overseas facilities, it will move in the range of being 24 to 25%.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, so for FY27, if I have to take a rough estimate, would you be able to provide that?
Vivek Valsaraj
I would just say that it will remain at an elevated level because for us the tax actually depends upon the geographical mix. We are present in multiple jurisdictions where our effective tax rates are different and in some cases we are profitable, some cases we are not. So it depends upon that mix. So I’ll just say that will remain at elevated levels.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Yasir Lakrawala from M3 Investment. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Am I audible?
Gagan Borana
Yes, Yasir, go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, thanks for the team for allowing me to ask questions. You know, basically what percentage of our phase three projects? I think we were 25 odd projects or do we expect to commercialize those in the next couple of years? And if you could throw some light on would this be, you know, commercialization based out of India or, you know, overseas facilities?
Peter DeYoung
So I would as a rule of thumb assume that if it’s in the phase three window in any given year, that that would become there would be a decision on the launch within a three year window, some shorter, some longer. And from a geographic mix perspective, we are reasonably nicely distributed between our different sites and different geographies. And so there’s no single large concentration. The only other point I’d make is that the overseas sites, particularly the ones in the US August overseas sites in general are much more a percentage of on patent work.
But we do have contribution from India as well for this. So sorry, I can’t say it’s only one place. It’s actually reasonably broad based.
Unidentified Participant
And could you also probably, you know, give us some color on, you know, our peptide and the peptide opportunities that we have after we acquired Hemo and you know, our strategic acquisition of strategic deal in Yapan? Like how do you evaluate the success of these capabilities and what would be say our long term targets at Bramal to you know, see and get these acquisitions to some sort of internal metrics of success? Like could you probably give us some color on that
Peter DeYoung
So we don’t break out individual offerings separately, especially after they’re fully integrated into our standalone financials such as our peptides. However, if we look at it since acquisition, that offering has grown substantially and the profitability is meaningful and we’ve had great addition in overall revenue and incremental EBITDA margin expansion. Historically, when it was acquired it was largely a generics offering and that continues to be the single largest contributor to revenue and a big driver of growth.
However, we have been working hard to bring the site up to the expectations for CDMO customers and we’re now actively also selling that offering for them. Given the size of the facility and the capabilities, we would anticipate it would be more suited towards the biotech customer than the large pharma. However, we do expect it to continue to grow in the medium term. With respect to yapa, we find that having this offering is an important element to offer in the bouquet for someone wanting bioconjugation or ADCs and so we continue to remain interested and excited about being able to offer that from a capability perspective.
It is somewhat scale limited and so it’s more for kind of that early first phase one post IND offering and that’s the sweet spot for what we can do at that site with that investment and we continue to expect to offer that and grow with them together.
Unidentified Participant
Just building on that. Peter, you know the fact that we’ve had such a legacy of being in the ADC space, since this sector is seeing space in biotech, is seeing a lot of interest from innovators and investors. Any thoughts of probably maybe scaling up and up so that we could probably do instead of just being a phase one provider, maybe eventually if you do have any commercial outcomes, would that possibility exists with us or would that molecule eventually go to someone who has those large scale facilities, especially in the map space?
Peter DeYoung
We will continue to evaluate the customer demand for the offering in this geography. And also this is being done in partnership with the current entrepreneurs that we are investment partners with and we would evaluate that choice as it is believe it presents. So as I mentioned earlier in the remarks, there are substantial map providers that are providing very large scale capabilities and so we need to find the right niche for this offering and we would continue to look at that to see if and where it’s appropriate.
Unidentified Participant
Sure. And just lastly on our CHG business, you know what has been say the pricing versus a volume growth across anesthesia and the non anesthesia bit of a portfolio and as a team also, what are your thoughts on growing the non inhalation portfolio? Right. And you know, because predominantly almost about 2/3 of our business are from the anesthesia business. So how do we sort of increase the non anesthesia piece of business and what are we doing to sort of do that? If you could, you know, give us some insights on that.
Peter DeYoung
So in the short term, meaningful. If you break our business in two, sorry in two segments and I think we have some inner investor presentation, some broad segmentation. So you’re not asking about inhalation, you’re talking about other. So for other,
Harith Mohammed
For
Peter DeYoung
Other there is injectable pain. This is a meaningful franchise for us where we’ve had primarily been supply limited due to our CDMO partners that make these products for us. And so we’re working very hard with those partners to try and address their issues with making the products product for us and our customers. And we anticipate as our CDMOs address those issues that we should be able to not be supply constrained and there should be some growth potential in that product offering either this year or next year.
But it is a mature product, it’s been around for a long time and so we would see that to be modest growth. The second one would be our ITT franchise which is primarily the specialty offering we have in the US for interest equal Baclofen and morphine. And in that case we’re reasonably high market share. And so we’d anticipate that to be more about maintaining revenue which then leads to the third area for growth which would be our pipeline of new offerings. And I think as we discussed in our investor day and subsequent communications, we’ve embarked on a plan to add new and Nandini also mentioned in her comments to add new products to the portfolio.
And those would be more specialty differentiated or 505 type carrier category products. And the investment and return horizon on that would be more in the later years in our FY30 plan. And so in the near term from a new product offering perspective. That’s why we’re particularly excited with the Kenalog acquisition. Because it brings current year FY27 revenues from an already on market product. And so it’s going to be a combination of selective opportunistic additions to the on market portfolio like what we did with Kenalog if other ones present at a reasonable value along with the portfolio additions through co development and licensing of products that would be more differentiated in the back end of the window and then maximizing our potential from the injectable pain through the partnership with CMOs that are helping us there.
So it’s a bit of a multi part answer and it depends on the year. But we anticipate to have significant growth in our non IA business over the 5 year FY30 horizon that we described. And it’s going to be not single offering there, but it’s going to be the combination that will drive the growth in the non IA portfolio.
Unidentified Participant
Lastly Peter, if you could just shed some light on our one thing, the migraine drug where we had some destocking issues. Do you expect maybe over the next couple of years to be at the levels before the destocking situation occurred? And have we lost any share in supplies as a manufacturing partner to the other supplier? Share some commentary on that.
Peter DeYoung
I think we continue to be told by that customer that they prefer what we do for them when they have a need. But obviously any customer in that segment would have multiple suppliers. You all can read the Axiom data. Our anticipation is that if you do an outside in look at the ex IM data and the underlying demand that there’s probably still excess stock in the system. And so we anticipate when the stock gets to normalized levels that we would get orders again but we would have to wait for those orders to appear and then we can prosecute them.
Unidentified Participant
Sure, sure. Thanks. Thanks a lot Peter. Thanks a lot.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in the interest of time and fairness to others, we request you to restrict to two questions per participant. We take the next question from the line of Harith Ahmad from Evindespark. Please go ahead.
Harith Mohammed
Good morning. Thanks. For the opportunity on the New Amsterdam partnership, the supplier will be attracted and combination product. So for this opportunity, what are the timelines that we’re looking at and the capex that we’re incurring specifically for this? And also if you could comment a bit on the commercial side of things for this combination product, specifically in terms of potential,
Peter DeYoung
In this particular case you have the benefit of the customer being announced as being our customer and also them being a public company and then further than being covered by very well reputed analysts. So my strong suggestion would be is that you look at analyst reports for that end customer, looking up the combination you mentioned and seeing where they predicted they’ll be much more informed and educated in what they can communicate than us because we’re obviously bound by our confidentiality agreements on details like what you mentioned.
In terms of capex it was largely customer funded and that’s complete. The suite that was needed to be made for them is up and running and that’s the announcement that you’re letting you know that we have this arrangement and so there’s no new significant capex spending plan to support this and we’re looking forward to them continuing to generate good data to allow them to get the regulatory actions that we are excited about along with them so we can start serving patients with them.
Harith Mohammed
Thanks for that. And on the 90 million expansion at Lexington and Riverview, any updates on those projects? What’s the timelines that you’re looking at in terms of commissioning and beyond these two projects, how does our CapEx pipeline look? Should we expect a period of consolidation beyond these two CapEx projects?
Nandini Piramal
I think the Riverview one is largely complete and is sort of serving clients as we speak. The Lexington will be CY27, the latter half of CY27. Before completion of that, I think there will continue to be both obviously depreciation and maintenance CapEx, but also growth CapEx as we go forward.
Harith Mohammed
Last one of the beyond the on patent commercial manufacturing segment within the CDMO business, can you comment a bit on the other verticals like the discovery services, development services and the generative API segment where we’ve seen some pricing pressure in recent quarters. How is that looking currently?
Peter DeYoung
So the biggest driver of growth of the ones you listed will remain our development services, which will be the on patent work for clients that are not yet commercially approved and that’s also linked to our differentiated offerings. And so that remains an area of focus and meaningful growth. We do anticipate growth in our API generics business also, although it will be more modest. But we do have reasons to believe that our current prior seeding efforts, where we put, you know, smaller quantities with companies that are looking to add sources or add geographies or add products, should, should show us get us benefit of growth in the current fiscal year.
And we have new API generics that we’re developing that have market demand for. And so we anticipate growth continuing in the API generics business, albeit at a modest level. And then finally for discovery, it’s not a material contributor to our revenue. And while we do see benefit and follow the molecule and it’s a profitable offering for us, it’s more just compared to maybe some other players, it’s more modest. We’re more historically later phase in the clinic in terms of what we offer.
Harith Mohammed
Thank you. That’s all from the same.
Operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Tushar Manudane from Motilalo SWAL Financial Services Ltd. Please go ahead.
Tushar Manudane
Thanks for the opportunity. So just on the CDMO side, while the RFPs have increased, improved considerably, there has been significant capability as well as capacity increases by the competition as well. So how do you see that factor playing out in our case, maybe in terms of pricing or in terms of the size of contract? If you can elaborate. That’s my first question.
Peter DeYoung
Sorry, the line was a bit fuzzy and so what was the comment you made about the competitors? Before I answer, I was make sure I heard what you were trying to reference there. Hello? Hello? Hello.
Tushar Manudane
I’m audible. Am I audible now?
Peter DeYoung
Yeah. Can you try again and just repeat the process?
Tushar Manudane
So what I was trying to ask is that while the RFPs have increased considerably over the last six months, what we see is that there has been reasonable increase in the capacity capability by the competition as well. So is that having an impact in terms of, let’s say, the pricing of the contract as well as maybe the volume or say, let’s say per vendor supplier, if you can throw some light on that.
Peter DeYoung
So I would say that in a post after the biotech funding crashed, post the COVID boom, there was a general increase in competitive intensity that we experienced across the set of offerings we have. And we really did a lot of looking as to how we need to up our game so that we can get our win rates to go up. And I think what you may not have captured from Nandini’s comments is that we actually saw our win rate increase last year versus the prior year. And we think that’s because of a couple of factors.
The first is we think we have the right combination of assets in the right locations. The second is that we’ve done a lot of work on strengthening our business development organization to be, we think, more aligned with our FY30 growth goals. And so we did substantial enhancements to the number of people, but also how it’s organized and how we go to market. And the third one is that while price is obviously an important factor, it’s rarely number one, two or three in a buying decision. And clients that really are good at buying would look at the full set of factors.
And that’s where again, Nandini’s comment about our promoter score of 60, that’s kind of a lagging indicator of a lot of work that goes into how you interact with clients and how you deliver for clients, such that at the end they really are promoters for your services and that they would be willing to recommend you to others. And so it’s very frankly easy to buy a bunch of kit and put it in a factory. It’s very hard to organize how you operate that kit with a high performing team such that customers are delighted and you don’t have any regulatory actions or oais.
And so we think that’s the combination of reasons that we’ve seen our win rate actually go up despite competitive intensity increasing. And we are not going to rest on our laurels. We will not take anything for granted and we’re going to be very aggressive about the expectation for increased competition. But we think that we know what we have to do to win and we’re going to execute on that.
Tushar Manudane
Got it sir. And just on this, the innovation related on patent business for us is largely to which geographies now in CF526
Peter DeYoung
The innovation related business is broad based across our network. We have very most of our sites and especially the sites that we’re investing in are innovation oriented and that’s part of our multi year pivot from life cycle management to innovation support. So most of our sites are innovation oriented and they all generally are contributing to the pivot.
Tushar Manudane
And just lastly with increase in this working capital requirement to address maybe the global turmoil as well as the amount that would be required to pay for Canada. So what kind of net debt we would see for FY27.
Vivek Valsaraj
So currently we are at 3.6. We expect to, based on the guidance that Nandini shared, we expect to remain range bound in that level at about 3.6 through FY27. There may be ups and downs intermittently depending upon, you know, how our overall profitability pans out and how we spend our capex. But on a full year basis that’s the range that we are targeting.
Tushar Manudane
So on absolute basis, if you could just considering this ratio,
Vivek Valsaraj
Let me put it that way, that you know, that’s the range that we’re looking for. 3.6 times net debt to EBITDA.
Tushar Manudane
Okay, all right, that’s all, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Alankar Garud from Kotak Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Alankar Garud
Hi, good morning everyone. First question, which are the row markets towards which supplies have started from Digwal and how’s the pricing environment in these markets?
Peter DeYoung
I think it’s really kind of that. Well, India would be our largest row market. We’ve already supported from like I’m just looking at our list here, it’s India, uae, Cambodia, Kenya, Sri Lanka, Uganda. These will all be price competitive markets but we believe that Digwell can achieve its target market margins with what we supply from there to those locations. And we anticipate countries such as examples like Bangladesh, Brazil, Malaysia, Russia, South Africa being next in line. So these are typically markets where pricing is more intense and we’ve set up our cost structure to compete with China in those markets.
Alankar Garud
Has there been any improvement Peter, in the pricing environment at all? Especially given the last two months, the disruption in supply, solvents, etc. The situation remains stable as far as pricing is concerned.
Peter DeYoung
As you may know, this particular product that we’re describing has a very product specific supply chain and it’s, you know, it’s not really solvent driven per se. And regardless, we have not at the moment seen pricing increase. Typically prices stay where they’re at or go down. But we’ve maybe seen perhaps an ability for us to start winning contracts in these markets which we’ll just have to see how it plays out. It’s too early honestly to ascertain pricing movements only a month or two after a conflict like this in a product with a very product specific value chain.
As you know, our hedge facility makes the key input for this and then we’re reasonably backward integrated.
Alankar Garud
Got it. Second question is how are you assessing the impact of tariffs on the on patent CDMO segment?
Nandini Piramal
I think tariffs should be a net positive. Obviously the US facilities will be exempt from tariffs and you will see there’s a general onshoring trend. The UK facilities also see a zero mill rate tariff under the UK US Trade Agreement and we should see over I think again increased demand there. For India generic products are excluded but innovation related work is at reasonable levels and it will depend on the outcome of negotiations between the customers and the US government. And there’s a 120, 180 day window for the customers to reach agreements.
And for CHG and PCH there’s no impact.
Peter DeYoung
The only other two points to add is that there’s also an opportunity if India were to be interested to discuss the FTA with the US which is what other countries did and that could be a second way out. And then a third way out is that many of our customers would be buying what we make and in one of the countries that has already got an FTA and they may do further evaluation steps before it goes to the US end market. So there’s the MFN way out, the FTA way out and then the intermediate country way out.
Some combination of those we believe should conclude we hope before the end of the period.
Alankar Garud
Got it. Just one final follow up here. Assuming the FTA is not signed and those agreements with the US by the remaining companies are not saying how should we look at the ability to pass on for the India manufacturer for the India sites, how do you assess the ability to pass on the incremental hikes to the clients. Are clients more receptive in your initial discussions or. This is too early to comment on at this point. I
Peter DeYoung
Think it’s too early. There’s too many unknowns at this stage. So. So I would just. We would need to kind of see how the different factors that are, I would say, above our company level situation play out. And I think it’ll become more clear as we get closer to the September date. I wish I could tell you more, but this is one of those things where we just have to let the cards play.
Alankar Garud
Fair enough. That’s it from my side. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Devang Shah from DD Enterprise. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, Am I audible?
Vinod Sohanlal Jain
Yes.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. The question is, are we going to see any stable quarters coming up upwards? Because in one quarter we are posting profits, in one quarter we are posting like loss. We are not coping up with that after the demerger. I’m not getting. I like, I’m not understanding, like are we into the business of all these types or we are like in a business of a CDMO where the consistency should be there.
Vivek Valsaraj
While that’s the intent that we should be having more stable quarters. Unfortunately, the nature of the business is such that we have been seeing volatility. Now if you go to the other two smaller businesses, which is our critical care and our consumer products business, they are relatively stable with a more equal phasing across the quarters. It’s our CDMO business, which is 60% of what we do, where you see a significant skew. This has not just been after the demerger, it has also been before the demerger.
It’s just that now when we are separate, you have better visibility to how it plays out. And yes, you do see lumpy quarters. Unfortunately, even in FY27, this trend will be there where CDMO will be more H2 weighted with a larger chunk in quarter four. So that situation doesn’t change. All our efforts are in the direction to have a more even quarter, but it largely depends upon when the customers buy from us. And that’s what determines how the phasing pans out and that’s what determines how the profitability comes up.
Unidentified Participant
So is there any plan to reduce the debt? The thing comes at the broader holding is not increasing.
Unidentified Participant
So if you could please repeat the last statement. The promoter
Unidentified Participant
Scale in the game is just 30 or 35%. It’s not beyond that. Right. And the thing comes at like the depth is very Much high. If I’m not wrong, it’s 3.5% or something like that. 3.5. Yeah.
Vivek Valsaraj
Yeah. And you’re right Devam, that 3.5 is the level at which you’re operating. But it’s largely driven by some of the investments which have been ongoing. And these are the planned targeted investments to expand capacity, scale and capability at sites which we believe will be part of the long range plan growth drivers. So the investments are in that direction and we’ve said that on a long term basis we will have net debt to EBITDA come down to one. And we also mentioned that in the interim period it will remain elevated and that’s what you’re seeing play out at this stage.
Unidentified Participant
That’s fine. That’s all from my side and all the best for the future.
Vivek Valsaraj
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Vinod Sohan Lal Jain from WF Advisors. Please go ahead.
Vinod Sohanlal Jain
Yeah. Good morning madam. I Refer to the Q4 numbers which are muted. So are the annual financial year 2526 numbers. The turnover remains skewed in favor of the last quarter of the years. A harmful phenomena highlighted by over the several quarters and years by me. But in this Context I asked two questions. Would 2627 be any different? You have decent. You just said that CDMO may remain the similar but I want to clarify whether the overall business in terms of the turnover would it be spread over the quarters in any different manner?
And secondly, the exceptional charge of 175 crores in Q4 was neither hinted earlier nor has been explained in detail. Please convey what caused this exceptional intangible RND asset write off and how you would avoid this in the future.
Nandini Piramal
Okay. I think one is overall we, I think we have said that for next year year we expect early to mid teens growth across each of the businesses and this is full year. The CDMO is unfortunately still will be back weighted to H2. As Vivek said that that is driven by the timing of when the clients and customers want delivery and that’s when we can recognize the revenue that’s part of the nature of the business. The other two businesses will see I think consistent growth across and I think on the. I think your second question was on the intangibles.
Yes. Yeah, I’ll leave that to Vivek.
Vivek Valsaraj
So on the intangibles I just clarified on the call that there are certain intangible assets which were under development where the overall macro and market situation did change versus what was originally envisaged and since we are prioritizing Capex as a part of our long range plans, we are ensuring that they are going in the areas which give the returns as anticipated and therefore to prevent any further impact, we decided to cut further investments on these products and therefore impair it as a result of these realities.
Vinod Sohanlal Jain
You would avoid such ventures in the future.
Vivek Valsaraj
That’s the endeavor always. But there are certain factors. If there are market conditions do change, then there will be some things. But in general that’s the larger principle.
Vinod Sohanlal Jain
Very well. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you ladies and gentlemen. We take that as the last question and conclude the question and answer session. I now have the conference over to Gagan for his closing comments.
Gagan Borana
Thank you very much. We hope that we were able to answer most of your questions. In case you have any follow up questions or any clarification that you need, please feel free to reach out to us. Thank you and have a good day.
Operator
Thank you. On behalf of Piramal Pharma Ltd. That concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your