PB Fintech Ltd (POLICYBZR) Q3 FY23 Earnings Concall Transcript

PB Fintech Ltd (NSE:POLICYBZR) Q3 FY23 Earnings Concall dated Feb. 10, 2023.

Corporate Participants:

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

Sarbvir Singh — Chief Executive Officer, PolicyBazaar.com

Rasleen Kaur — Head Corporate Strategy and Investor Relations

Naveen Kukreja — Co-Founder & Chief Executive Officer, Paisabazaar.com

Alok Bansal — Executive Vice-Chairman and Whole-Time Director

Mandeep Mehta — Chief Financial Officer

Analysts:

Shreya Shivani — CLSA — Analyst

Subramanian Iyer — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Sachin — Bank of America — Analyst

Sachin Dixit — JM Financial — Analyst

Nischint Chawathe — Kotak Securities — Analyst

Dipanjan Ghosh — Citi — Analyst

Srinath. V — Bellwether Capital — Analyst

Arpit Shah — Stallion Asset — Analyst

Prateek Poddar — Nippon Life India Asset Management Limited — Analyst

Presentation:

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the PB Fintech Earnings Conference Call for Quarter Three Financial Year 2022-’23. We have with us Mr. Yashish Dahiya, Chairman and CEO, PB Fintech; Mr. Alok Bansal, Executive Vice Chairman and Whole Time Director, PB Fintech; Mr. Sarbvir Singh, President, Policybazaar; Mr. Naveen Kukreja, CEO, Paisabazaar; Mr. Mandeep Mehta, Group CFO; Ms. Rasleen Kaur, Head Corporate Strategy and Investor Relations.

[Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Yashish Dahiya. Thank you, and over to you Mr. Dahiya.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

Thank you very much. Welcome, everybody. I first of all, just wanted to make a very small correction. Sarbvir is not President of — whatever, he is the Joint Group CEO. That happened a month ago. So, that obviously, needs to be published out.

But before we begin our performance update, I would like to obviously welcome all of you and especially, the ones who’ve joined us for the first time. And like to reiterate how our business is structured. Policybazaar and Paisabazaar, which are jointly classified as existing businesses are India’s largest marketplaces for insurance and credit products. These contributed to almost all of our revenues till the full-year 2021. In FY ’22, we expanded into new areas and geographies and collectively referred to all those activities as new initiatives.

So, our revenue in the first nine months of this year is 5.2 times our revenue in the same period four years ago, which was 2019. The revenue grew at 91% year-on year and our existing business has now been profitable for four straight quarters. For the quarter, our revenue grew to INR610 crores, up 66% year-over-year, while the PAT losses have reduced to just under a third of what they were, which were INR298 crores, they’re down to about INR87 crores now. Our existing business adjusted EBITDA has increased by INR67 crores for the quarter year-on year and INR164 crores for the nine months of the year as compared to the same period last year. The reason we explain this a bit is because we had at one-time sort of given a soft guidance of INR150 crore to INR200 crore increment in EBITDA happening almost automatically every year. So, just wanted to clarify that’s been happening pretty much every quarter in the last three, four quarters.

Now, what is the growth driven by, this is driven by three things. First is the growth in renewal income and the reason I mentioned that first is because that’s the most secure part of the business. Then growth in new business and growth — and then the higher efficiencies on new business. So, just to explain, last year for the same quarter, our ARR on renewal revenue was INR210 crores. Now, it’s INR315 crores. I just want to spend 30 seconds on this. You can see that it has grown by INR105 crores in the year. So, it took us the first 14 years of our existence to get to INR210 crores. And then one year to increase it by INR105 crores. So ideally, this should not be a flat increase, this should start to become an exponential increase as time progresses.

But even at this flat increase because the operating expense, you know, margins are over 85% for this, this has given almost INR90 crore delta just because of this aspect and that should keep happening right. We are now at an annual run-rate of about INR12,000 crores of insurance premium and we continue to improve our efficiency, which is on the premium per inquiry, which has reached INR1,563 for the nine-month period, which is the highest-ever. I think the biggest heavy-lift that’s been happening in the company is on the servicing and the claim support. We have a CSAT of 88%, but this is –while this is great, it is not really representative of the amount of customer appreciation. See, insurance usually tends to be a complaints category, but the number of appreciations we receive for the claim support is quite extraordinary.

Our existing business, the insurance marketplace, Policybazaar and the credit marketplace, Paisabazaar grew to INR425 crores for Q3 and of the total revenue credit-linked revenue of this was INR107 crores. The credit business has continued to grow well and we’re very happy that it’s broken even in December 2022. We are now at a run-rate of INR12,700 crores of disbursal and INR5.2 lakh or about INR0.5 million credit cards issued on an annualized basis. 33 million customers have accessed the credit score on our platform. 75% of the cards issued in Q3 were end-to-end digital. This really helps us in improving margins. Co-created products like Step Up cards, Duet cards continue to gain traction.

Talking about our new initiatives, we are 3.7 times of last year on revenue, but our adjusted EBITDA loss is pretty much the same as it was last year. And if you — those of us — those of you who have followed us would know that in Q4 last year we had peaked. And we had reached losses of almost INR90 crores of actually more than INR90 crores on this. We’re down to INR54 crores, I think this should keep declining. PB Partners, our agent aggregator platform continues to lead the market in scale and efficiency of operations. It has the highest proportion of non-motor business in the country out of all the competitors it competes with. And is now present in 14,300 pin codes across India. The UAE business has grown 167% year-on year, so grown to 2.67 times.

We had said, I’ve already explained this that our EBITDA has grown at INR164 crores for the first nine months of the year. Please notice that the PAT has grown or whatever — the PAT loss has reduced by more than INR200 crores but that is not really reflective of the business reality. The business reality is this, this is the thing that’s going to consistently keep changing, right. We stay confident of being adjusted positive — EBITDA-positive for Q4 this year and deliver the first full-year of PAT in ’22 — in ’23-’24.

Happy to take questions now.

Questions and Answers:

Operator

Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Shreya Shivani from CLSA. Please go ahead.

Shreya Shivani — CLSA — Analyst

Hi, thank you for the opportunity and congratulations for a good set of number.

Operator

Ms. Shivani, sorry to interrupt you. The audio is slightly low. Please increase the volume of your line.

Shreya Shivani — CLSA — Analyst

Just a second. Is this better?

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

We can hear you loud and clear here.

Shreya Shivani — CLSA — Analyst

Okay, okay, great. Yeah, so congratulations on a good set of numbers. I have three questions. First is on the — first is a data keeping question. Can you give us the break-up of the insurance premium of INR3,028 crores into POSP and existing business premium? And within the existing business, can you give a break-up of the new and the renewal? This is the first question.

Second question is on the POSP business. Specifically, the contribution margins have been quite good this quarter at like it’s reduced quite a lot at — only at minus 15%, so where do you see those margins settling in the next couple of quarters? And my last question is more to do with the structural change in the industry. With the new tax laws coming in and non-par savings getting taxed above INR5,00,000 premium. Can you give us a little detail about what is the share of your savings business, particularly your non-par business, which was large ticket?

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

So, since all of these are related to Policybazaar, I will pass the mike to Sarbvir here.

Sarbvir Singh — Chief Executive Officer, PolicyBazaar.com

Yeah, hi, in terms of the break-up of the, I think the first question was on the break-up. Our POSP business was about INR500 crores. Dubai was about INR80 crores and our corporate business was about INR300 crores. So, I think that’s the level of break-up that we normally share. So, that will allow you to kind of see. The growth was fairly strong across businesses this quarter.

Shreya Shivani — CLSA — Analyst

Sure.

Sarbvir Singh — Chief Executive Officer, PolicyBazaar.com

And the second question, sorry, what?

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

POSP is at minus 15%, so there has been some margin improvement. Where do you see this in the next couple of quarters?

Sarbvir Singh — Chief Executive Officer, PolicyBazaar.com

So we, if you notice, we have been sequentially every quarter improving our margin profile. Two things are driving this. One is that a proportion of non-motor business, which is health and life business and commercial lines continues to grow and now we are a significant market leader in that part of the business. On our motor business, also we are becoming increasingly more and more efficient and I think you should see this sort of improvement into Q4 and as we go-forward into next year. At some point, obviously, the rate of change will not remain the same, but the idea is very much to put the business on a very sustainable path.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

And the large was structural change from the tax regime, which is not crystal clear yet, but what is our share of business coming from that.

Sarbvir Singh — Chief Executive Officer, PolicyBazaar.com

Our share of the business of, see, we are a company which caters to the middle-class. Our share of the business from these policies is very small, they’re like sub 1% and for us, there is, on the POSP side, we do have some high value policies. But again, it’s not a very material thing when you look at overall number. For us this is not going to be big one way or the other. Neither it is going to be big from a share perspective and nor will we have an impact when this rule comes into play.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

I think we did some check. There were 762 policies or something which were more than INR5 lakh for us in the year or whatever period. So, it’s not a very significant number for us. We don’t really cater to the wealth segment. We mostly cater to the middle-class and I don’t think middle-class people pay INR5 lakh premium.

Shreya Shivani — CLSA — Analyst

Got it, sir. Sir, just one question got left out. The POSP agent count right now? Last quarter it was at 1,000 — 1 lakh agents, I guess.

Sarbvir Singh — Chief Executive Officer, PolicyBazaar.com

It’s a little more than that. It’s grown from that number, but honestly, beyond a point the agent count is not necessarily reflective of anything, if you ask me. Yeah, what we really want is the number of agents who do repeat sustainable business with us. I think that is the number which is the most important number. And we can take this offline, maybe Rasleen can help you if you have any other question on this?

Rasleen Kaur — Head Corporate Strategy and Investor Relations

Sure. Okay, thanks. Thanks a lot.

Sarbvir Singh — Chief Executive Officer, PolicyBazaar.com

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Subramanian Iyer from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Subramanian Iyer — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Hi, thanks for the opportunity and congrats on a good set of numbers. A few more data keeping questions. So one is, if you can split your core revenues into credit and insurance, so, I think your core revenues is about INR425 crores. So, if you can split into credit and insurance?

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

So, that we already did. INR107 crores was the credit-linked revenue. The rest is all insurance.

Subramanian Iyer — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Got it. Sorry, again, I probably missed it. The other question I have is on the adjusted EBITDA as well. So, your existing adjusted EBITDA is INR26 crores, so how does it split into insurance and credit?

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

So, credit is less than INR1crore, both ways. What I’m saying is less than INR1 crore negative. It’s about INR40 lakh, INR50 lakh negative. So basically, — and in December, it was positive. So yeah, it kind of made a loss for the first two months and then in the last month it made profit. So, it’s almost all insurance. So, INR26 crores is the insurance, whatever EBITDA, adjusted EBITDA.

Subramanian Iyer — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Yeah and lastly, so, you mentioned that the premium under the new initiatives is about INR880 crores and so which translates into the existing business being about — roughly about INR2,150 crores-odd. Can you just split it into new and renewal that will help?

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

We don’t do it, but it’s almost equal. It maybe little more in renewal whatever, but little little more in new, but it’s almost equal. It’s been almost equal for quite some time and the growth rate is also similar. So, I’ll give you some things, right, which you guys can, which are important for you rather than kind of worrying about exactly each number, see we focus on health and life, so, I think that part is important to you that on health and life, we have grown at about 30%, very, very close whether it 29 point or 30 point something, is about 30%. I think that was relevant in the industry scenario where things have not been — so, we’ve grown at more than double the rate of the industry. I think, the rest of it is, is fairly immaterial. If you really think about it from many perspectives and we will disclose more. We’ve told you we’ll disclose more from kind of next year.

Subramanian Iyer — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Sure, got it. Yeah, I mean the only purpose of asking that was because we need to connect. So, your renewal commission is about INR80 crores-odd. So, we needed something to connect it to. Yeah, so that was the purpose of asking that. And the other question is, how is your offline business doing the one that is connected to your online lead-generation in terms of contribution to the main business?

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

I will pass that to Sarbvir.

Sarbvir Singh — Chief Executive Officer, PolicyBazaar.com

Yeah, so the offline business is now contributing in the relevant areas, which is Life and Health again. About 20% of our premium comes from the offline business. We now have presence in almost 60 cities. We have centers in seven — big centers in seven cities and I think — I think last-time also we spoke, we have about 1,000 people deployed on the offline side. And right now, we did a — we basically invested in this over the last three quarters and now we are basically trying to or we are improving the productivity of this force. And so far, I think it’s going really well and it’s doing what we wanted it to do which is to deliver incremental conversion over and above what we can convert from the call center.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

So, just wanted to add there. Sorry, Sarbvir. We have 62 locations where we are — where we have physical office or presence, but otherwise, we are present in 125 cities, we cater to. There’s a lot of definitional issues here. What is a city, what is a town, etc., etc., but suffice to say, 125 locations is where we do sales and in 114 cities we are serving claims. I really think and I emphasizing again, I covered it in my main speech also. The big heavy-lift that happened in the last one year has been in the claims support area and some of those are quite telling when we are receiving those appreciation from people, they are very, very telling and they are helping the morale in the company as well. And, of course, eventually this will lead to very good word-of-mouth as well.

Subramanian Iyer — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Got it. Thanks and wish you all the best.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sachin from Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Sachin — Bank of America — Analyst

Hi, thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. I have three questions. First question is on your cost. Clearly, employee expense and advertisement is lower. I presume, employee expense is lower mainly on the back of ESOPs or is there anything else which has led to that decline in employee expense?

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

I think it would be ESOPs. There is no material — and that’s more ESOP accounting, which we were telling you guys last year also that look our ESOPs essentially go like first year 700, second year, 350, 400, the third year, they become 160, then they become 70, then they become 30. So yes, that would be the biggest impact. Otherwise there is no material change in number of employees or their compensation.

Sachin — Bank of America — Analyst

Got it. And then is it fair to assume that both employee expense, as well as your advertisement will remain low, relatively low as a percentage of revenue going ahead?

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

I think we are doing, we’ve said this repeatedly, we are doing a certain amount of advertising and that is more like a platform approach that we do a certain amount of advertising every quarter. You don’t need more than that. You just don’t need it. So to some extent, we’ve always said that you can treat our — because our advertising is just a way of communicating to the customer that we exist and to keep reminding them. See, insurance, you need to keep reminding people that you are there and it’s an important product, both it’s an important product and Policybazaar is an important place to be and similarly, for the credit guidance, right.

So to a large extent, that tends to become a fixed-cost from here onwards. So, the changes you’ll see would be sometimes 5% down, sometimes 5%, 10% up, but it’s not like you need to increase in line with revenue. And I think that’s becoming very clear as we proceed. Because you can see, right, we are growing our core businesses at double the rate of the industry, it’s not like our growth has slowed down. It’s not like — anything but our — those costs are not increasing or in fact, declining by a few percentage points.

Sachin — Bank of America — Analyst

That’s clear. Second question is on the Paisabazaar EBITDA margin being positive. Just wanted to understand any one-offs are there in this quarter and should see sustainable positive EBITDA margin at Paisabazaar going ahead?

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

Naveen, please.

Naveen Kukreja — Co-Founder & Chief Executive Officer, Paisabazaar.com

No, no, this is very much sustainable. December is the first month where we hit the breakeven point. So, you should see that in the next quarter, we will have some positive and then continue to increase as a percentage and both absolute number also, so very much sustainable.

Sachin — Bank of America — Analyst

And Naveen, can you help us get a little bit more idea drivers in terms of what drove that profitability and the comfort on unit sustainability?

Naveen Kukreja — Co-Founder & Chief Executive Officer, Paisabazaar.com

Okay. So, in terms of the drivers, I think Yashish has referred to that from an insurance perspective, the similar drivers are playing out. If you see in the last 12, 15 months, since the COVID fear has subsided, the credit industry has started growing back at the pre-COVID rate, which was about 20% or so, give or take for the overall credit industry. And what’s happened, which is different from pre-COVID and that’s helping a platform like us is that, digitization has started to become real on the ground. So, the percentage of one of the metrics that we mentioned was 75% of the cards that were issued in the quarter, were end-to-end. This number was almost zero as we go to three, four years back.

What happens is that as things become more and more digital, we see lesser drop-offs as a customer doesn’t need to move from one platform to another platform or needs to go physical. That improves our conversion. And as we have increased our credit score customer base, that’s allowed us to go work with the lenders to create better more seamless pre-approved programs, which also converts and gets approved at a better rate. So overall, which you’ll be seeing that in the improvement in the margin.

If you look at two years before or even one year before, the percentage margin has gone to a fairly healthy 40s kind of range. And as we grow our overall revenue at which is growing at about 87% or so, if you look at nine-month data and if the margin stays healthy at 40-plus percent and your fixed cost, which Yashish referred to, are growing at a much lower ratio, the money flows down to the EBITDA, which is what we’re seeing from a nine months perspective.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

See I will like to give you this picture very clearly to every person, because all of you need to appreciate the business. Our revenue, let’s say, nine months, let me give a quarter view and a a nine-month view. If you look at a quarter view, our core business only, I’m not talking about the new initiatives, leave that out, because that will complicate the picture from a building up perspective, our revenue increased about INR108 crores in the quarter, right year-on year. But INR61 crores was the increase in contribution.

Now, our contribution margins or not 55%, they are closer to 44% for the core business. So, where that extra 15%, 16% come from. That has come from renewal expansion, right? So, one is the renewal expansion, second is the growth in new business. Of this roughly half has come from new business, half has come from renewal roughly. But what you see next is, of the INR61 crores, INR67 crores has flowed into EBITDA. So, that means your fixed costs have reduced by about INR6crores. Now that doesn’t give you the full picture, but if you look at year-on year, you have got a INR392 crores growth in revenue and a INR248 crores growth in contribution. Again, you notice, it’s just about 60%, same story. Our contribution is 44%, so where is the extra 16% coming from, it’s coming from the growth of renewals, because renewals are 85% margin. So renewals have grown, obviously and that’s showing up there.

But then of the INR248 crores, INR164 crores have gone to your EBITDA. That means almost two-thirds of the contribution is flowing to your EBITDA. So yes, there is a fixed-cost increase, but the fixed-cost increases INR80 crores and that is — that’s broadly what we’ve been saying all along. That look, yes, this business has flex, it has renewal growth which will keep improving the overall margins and it has — the fixed-cost are generally fixed here, that’s all.

Operator

Thank you. The current participant has left the question queue. We’ll take the next question from the line of Sachin Dixit from JM Financial. Please go ahead.

Sachin Dixit — JM Financial — Analyst

Hi, Yashish and team, congratulations on great set of results. I have some questions regarding the omnichannel player, right. So, now we are getting bids online and we are able to convert offline as well, which has helped our premium per inquiry go up significantly over the year. Can you talk a bit about how are these basically, the improvement in conversion is resulting in some savings and how does it compare to the cost of doing the offline business?

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

Okay. So, let me just take a few minutes before I hand over to Sarbvir and my answer will be more at a philosophical level and Sarbvir can probably answer it at a more granular level. So see, we are there wherever the customer wants us to be there. First of all, we advertise and we let the customer know that he needs to buy — he or she needs to buy insurance. They come to the website. Once they come to the website, most customers have said, they’re not entertainment site, so they said yes, we are interested in insurance, we want to buy insurance. But that doesn’t mean we will buy insurance, right. And so then starts the process of converting them.

Now, some people will buy on the website, some people will buy through the call center and some people will say no, I actually want to meet physically. There are also other examples. I gave this example a few quarters ago on the call itself. I was visiting Bangalore and I spoke to one of our top performers. He said the person was ready to spend — buy a policy for let’s say x rupees on the call, but then when I went and met him, I sold him a policy of 36 times. Now that doesn’t happen all the time. That’s an exceptional example. But that also happens. Then people talk about when you go and meet somebody that person also says, I’ve got three more references for my family. I also wanted to buy this and that. So, all those things are happening. Now, please understand we have run the call center operations for 15 years. We have run the physical operation for just about a year. So obviously, we are early in this. Our people are early in this, but on productivity, it is already beating the call center model. And you have to take vintage into account before you kind of start to judge things. Sorry, Sarbvir.

Sarbvir Singh — Chief Executive Officer, PolicyBazaar.com

No, I think, Yashish covered all the points. I would just say that right now in Q3, I mean if you look at the numbers, you can see that our contribution margin is going up despite the fact that we are winning on the offline expansion. So that basically, means that the improvement in ATS, improvement in multi-year policies is more than enough covering the cost of operations and I completely agree with Yashish, that right now, we are not the most efficient in FOS operations. I think we are very efficient on call center operations. We will become more efficient in FOS and I think that will only make this picture better.

So over the next 12 months, you will see that helping us, but right now also we have absorbed — the total offline rollout has been absorbed in the core business and you can see that the core business continues to do well. So, that should give you an indication that, that part is also becoming more and more powerful.

Sachin Dixit — JM Financial — Analyst

So, what I basically wanted to understand was that there will be some savings again in marketing cost, because of conversion is going up, right. And there will be some incremental cost of doing the offline business. So, is net-net, are these cost comparable? Is one significantly higher than the other currently? I understand that FOS is still nascent.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

So, I’ll explain. See our marketing cost is before the channel comes into play. That is to generate the inquiries on the website and all the inquiries are generated on the website or the app. We do not have people going and meeting anybody or saying, please buy insurance. We don’t do all that, right, no cold calling, no cold knocking on doors, nothing and that’s where a lot of people get confused. They somehow compare us with the agency model and all those things, right. So, the marketing cost does not get changed at all. But yes, your premium expands because you are doing higher premium per inquiry, because you are using further channel, which can convert even better, right or at a higher premium per inquiry it can convert.

Now, on a cost basis, the operating cost is there and the operating cost does increase, but as a percentage of premium, the operating costs has not been increasing. It’s actually either been flat or coming down. So, that is what I said. The efficiency of the physical meetings is already higher than the efficiency of the call center. While we are Mustangs in our call center, we are novices in the physical world. So, the improvement from here onwards will be much higher in the physical world. You won’t see as much like you can’t see doubling of productivity in the call center, but I think in the physical world, you’ll probably see a tripling of productivity. So, don’t take those as guidances, but that’s broadly what one has to offer.

Alok Bansal — Executive Vice-Chairman and Whole-Time Director

Sachin, see, one important thing. We had mentioned in the past that according to our research, roughly two-third or little higher than two-third people who are buying term and health may come to Policybazaar before they actually buy. But that doesn’t mean that we have the two-third market share of those categories. So, there’s lot of leakage, which happens. Now when you want to stop that leakage or reduce that number, so today, we believe about 25% of buyers who have come to us, would have brought through us.

If you want to move this 25 towards 35, 40, 50 over next few years and how do you do that. You have to work on the product. You have to work with the customer to make the buying process easy, which includes this omnichannel strategy that we have, you have to also build more trust around the claims and hand-holding of the customer post purchase and yeah, investing in all three and this is a continuous process, it’s not something which is like a one-time go. Out of these three the build-up for the omnichannel is something which SEBI has mentioned has happened to some extent. Now, it will be incremental from here onwards. But the first one year was trying to establish these offices, these 1,000 people and now that you have — we have in place, we want to work on efficiency from now onwards.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

Our efficiency, quality, all those factors.

Sachin Dixit — JM Financial — Analyst

Makes sense. Very helpful. I’ll move on to second question. So, my second question is with regards to, so recently I saw a media article wherein PB is launching a wholesome insurance product side. There is a combination of savings, term, as well as health. Can you talk about the process of creating such products like how are you working with insurance, who are getting the approvals. How are these products being created?

Sarbvir Singh — Chief Executive Officer, PolicyBazaar.com

So, yeah, this is a great question and I’m glad you asked it. We’re really proud of the work that our team has done to develop this product. It’s a product, which looks at both the health needs — health protection needs of a customer, as well as some life insurance and then a savings component as well. So, we had this thought that we wanted, because again, we hear a lot from our customers that they are concerned about what they are saving for, right. One of the main things that people are worried about is that in their old age, will they be able to take care of health emergency.

So, we conceptualized this idea along with in this case, we have gone with two partners, Tata AIA and Niva Bupa. The team worked with both the insurers to not only conceptualize the product as to how it would work, but also to tie-up the buying experience. I think as Alok just mentioned, one is the product which we conceptualized over here. The second is the buying experience, so that the person when they go through this and I would encourage you to buy this policy because what you’ll find is that the entire underwriting process is seamless. The minute the savings product will be issued, you will get the health policy right away, everything will come in jacket for you. You can be pay together for it. Any service issue that you have, there is a relationship manager, the relationship manager will handle both health claims or any questions that you have on the saving side.

So, it’s a completely fully stitched up journey with two insurance partners. And it shows, I think what Policybazaar can do. Because at this point, as you know, this is the only way that you can have this product. And we have tied this whole thing together. It’s — and we are really positive and very hopeful that this product will do well. But more than this specific product, I think it’s the thinking that matters, which is that we saw this problem that a customer problem is not health insurance or savings, it’s actually a mixture of the two. And we have conceptualized something for it and I think this is not a one-off thing, we have done this for many products in the past also, and I feel this is now going to open up a whole new set of opportunities for us where we will combine, this time, we’ve done health and savings, whereas we are working on products in other health plus term and things like that and you will see some of those initiatives coming out.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

If you think about conceptual level, you know, most middle-class families when they are going through life, at some point, they become — an individual becomes a family and then they have children and that is the point where they start to require things like term insurance and the health insurance requirement is also there. Now as the family keeps growing and the children get through college, etc., the term insurance remains very, very critical, but at some point once the children start earning on their own, the term insurance does not remain important and that is about 7, 8 years in the middle before you retire. And when they — when the person retires, the only needs become the pension and the health.

And now why is this crystal clear to me. You know, I grew up as an army officer’s son and all of these requirements were taken care of my father in the family. And when I came to the civil world, I said, okay, how do these people live, because those are very, very critical requirements, right? And I asked a lot of people and they all said, we would be happy to get 20, 30 as salary if these requirements were taken care of. That is the basic difference in India, should I think about it from a government job to a private job, etc., etc., right. So, this has been a deep thing which has been going on for like at least more than a decade in terms of, now I’m not saying this particular product will be hugely successful or not, because it’s a first attempt and it’s not in the perfect shape, but, I think what Sarbvir said is very important that it’s been brought together through multiple organizations through us and various things right, and I think we will keep working in this direction but the approach is eventually to solve this problem for the middle-class health, debt, pension in a holistic manner and I’m sure at some point it will get solved. It will take a lot of effort, but at some point it will get solved.

Sachin Dixit — JM Financial — Analyst

Very interesting. All the best. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nischint from Kotak Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.

Nischint Chawathe — Kotak Securities — Analyst

Thanks for taking my question. When I look at — I’m looking at sequential trend in your insurance premium and your revenues and I think you shared some data on the POSP premium. I believe the rest of the growth comes in essentially on the core business, on new business premium and it’s a fairly large sequential growth in premium in the digital — in the core business. If I compare that with the revenue of the core business on a sequential basis, that’s gone up only something like 3%, 4%. So, I think what that effectively means is that the calculated yields in the core business have come down. I’m just trying to understand this.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

I will clarify to you. I think looking at quarter-on-quarter growth and each percentage point genuinely does not make sense. You know, our invoicing, our — it tends to be a little not as genuine [Phonetic] as you would imagine, it tends to be a bit lumpy. So INR10 crores, moving from one quarter to the other happens on a fairly regular basis, not a big thing. I think you should look at this over a few quarters.

So, even if you look at just two quarters, the growth in revenue is also about 15%, so you will come to the right answer, but just look at it over a little longer period than just one quarter and you know, can’t be that accurate in that every quarter, it has to grow at 7.5% and grew at 30%, that is not a very feasible expectation. So, 2%, 3% up-down does keep happening. But as you correctly pointed out, it is not that the premium has not grown. And I have explained that the premium has actually — so, whichever way you look at it, year-on-year the growth is 34% and 30% for the life and health, fresh business, so be giving you those those clarifications. But yeah, the revenue can be a little here or there at times.

Nischint Chawathe — Kotak Securities — Analyst

If you look at…

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

Some incentives from somebody, which came in, one thing which did not come in the next quarter. So, don’t get too stuck-up on 1, 2 percentage points. Just look at it over a few quarters, that’s all.

Nischint Chawathe — Kotak Securities — Analyst

Fair point. Sir, my question essentially was that from a business composition point-of-view, was the second quarter and third quarter very different or it was pretty much the same and it’s just the adjustments which are making…

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

No, no. It’s just pretty much the same. There has been no material change that anybody needs to be aware of or even we are aware of.

Nischint Chawathe — Kotak Securities — Analyst

Sure.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

Not that we are not aware of, these are actually happening. It’s just — there’s nothing.

Nischint Chawathe — Kotak Securities — Analyst

Sure. And if I look at the non-core expenses, this number has actually come down both sequentially and on a year-on year basis, it’s a couple of crores here and there, but is there anything specific that we should read in this? I mean, are you cutting any fixed expenses or because we would have normally expected this ratio to, I mean this absolute number to go up at a maybe much lower pace than your revenue, but to actually go up?

Sarbvir Singh — Chief Executive Officer, PolicyBazaar.com

Nischint, do you remember at the start of the year, we had given some sort of, I won’t say guidance, but from idea that our investment in all our new initiatives, is going to be very near to our interest income. And that number we paired around somewhere between INR200 crores to INR250 crores at that time. And we had taken specific efforts. I mean, last year was the first year when these initiatives were launched and we were investing a lot in building the team, learning the stuff around these initiatives. Over quarters, once we got to the leadership, we have started focusing a lot more on the efficiency on each of these initiatives and that’s what you’re seeing on quarter-on-quarter basis.

If you look at the JFM, and then after quarter and then the July quarter and the September — up to the quarter, every time you will see that, okay, it’s come down and that’s focus, that’s very clearly laid out for ourselves that we want to make initiatives more and more efficient, while not letting of the leadership and the core business continued to become more and more profitable. It’s already at 6%, but if you look at last three quarter, it grew from 1% to 3% to 6%. Top line is growing, so multiple things happening, but on this specific one, we definitely want to become more and more efficient every quarter.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

And we are also very clear, if you just look at period over a couple of quarters rather than a single quarter because again the same thing, right. You may have a particular advertising campaign, which might work on a particular day or the next day. Again, look at it over a two-quarter period or something of that sort, because that can make a big change, right, at INR10 crore advertising campaign, running on 1st rather than 25th, you know numbers will change basis that. So when you look at on nine-month basis, you will see that the growth is coming and the profitability is coming from growth. It is not coming from cost reduction, which is not our intention either. Yet cost can stay flat, all we are saying is fixed costs are fixed. If they were not fixed, they would be variable. They’re not variable.

Nischint Chawathe — Kotak Securities — Analyst

Sure. Got it. Those were my questions. Sorry, just one last question is, of the total outstanding ESOPs, what is the — what is the vesting schedule? When should these ESOPS be exercised and what proportion of…

Mandeep Mehta — Chief Financial Officer

[Indecipherable], the bulk of these ESOPs that you see, they were given in October 21. So, as you know the accounting happens in a 12 month phase. So, every year, first-six months, you see a very different level of charge of ESOP and next six months you will see a little different and which is apparent in this year’s data also that quarter one and quarter two had a different number and quarter three had a little different number, which is much lower because the way accounting works obviously, it is on a reducing manner.

We do have some bit of ESOPs remaining from the original approved by the shareholders and slowly, slowly they are being utilized for old staff and also for new hires. But that is not a very big number to make an major change. The bulk of the ESOP charge actually was taken on October 21st month itself. And that’s why, I mean every year third-quarter, there’ll be significant drop compared to quarter one, quarter two.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

And we’ve given some guidance on this that look longer-term, we expect the ESOP charge, when I say longer-term, I mean, beyond the five years, beyond the first five years, we expect the ESOP charges to be roughly about INR100 crores a year, that’s my guess, right. And even now if you take the founders out of it, it’s probably something in that range. It maybe 150, because, yes, there was an IPO and you would have a little additional, all of it has not been rewarded actually. So, I guess, that is really where one should look at it and the remaining is the accounting part, which of course, feel free to take that into consideration for now because in another one year it will be…

Mandeep Mehta — Chief Financial Officer

No, this number 110 that — right now or it’s 110-odd, will become maybe 65, 70 next year in the same quarter. And then it may reduce to maybe 30. So, there is nothing that we are doing, it just the way the accounting works.

Nischint Chawathe — Kotak Securities — Analyst

Sure, got it. Actually my question was, what proportion of these ESOPs are linked to a particular market price or market cap and especially those which are given to senior management and won’t be exercised till you reach the milestone market cap or price?

Sarbvir Singh — Chief Executive Officer, PolicyBazaar.com

That would be roughly 55% to 60% of the approved — as per the October 21 scheme. So, you can assume about in terms of number of shares, 1.15 crore to 1.2 crore. Somewhere in that range.

Nischint Chawathe — Kotak Securities — Analyst

Got it, got it, got it, that’s right. Thank you very much.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

But you can separately take this number, in case that helps.

Nischint Chawathe — Kotak Securities — Analyst

Perfect, perfect, this helps. Thank you very much. All the best.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dipanjan Ghosh from Citi. Please go ahead.

Dipanjan Ghosh — Citi — Analyst

Good evening. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. A few questions from my side. First, on your POSP business, you mentioned that 20% is non-motor and I would assume that you would have some renewal commissions that you get from the manufacturer in this portion of the business. Just wanted to understand the pass-through that you do to the peer partner on the renewal side, is that renegotiated every year or does that get — IP decided at the start? Second on Paisa, your renewal revenue seems to have gained some traction. So, just wanted to get some understanding of how the products are structured and what are the contours out there? And lastly, two data keeping questions. If you can give your current pass-through rate on the POSP and the POSP premium number? I guess I missed it at the start of the call.

Mandeep Mehta — Chief Financial Officer

So, first, I’ll take the POSP part and then give it to Naveen for Paisa. On the POSP part, we said that POSP has done about INR500 crores of premium in this quarter. We obviously do not discuss the pass-through rate of POSP publicly. In terms of the non-motor business, it’s significantly more than 12%, so I’m not sure whether 12% number came. It’s much more than that. More than double of that number actually and I think your question was — sorry, what was your other question.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

How much do you —

Mandeep Mehta — Chief Financial Officer

On the renewal, yeah.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

What is your renewal structure and…

Mandeep Mehta — Chief Financial Officer

On the renewal, I just want to explain one thing to you that we protect the renewals. So that means, if an agent has given us the business, whether the person renews directly from us or comes back through the agent, we protect the renewal. But what we pay them, etc., etc., those are all commercial considerations and I’m sure you would appreciate best not discussed publicly.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

Naveen, you also be careful how much you want to discuss publicly. Other people are also learning from you.

Naveen Kukreja — Co-Founder & Chief Executive Officer, Paisabazaar.com

Nischint, on the trail piece, thanks for asking the question. As you can see from the presentation, page 47, that this is our co-created and co-branded product is the strategy that we undertook as lending started recovering from COVID. And because we realize that as a distributor, if we had a back-book revenue like a lender that will help us greatly in times of stress or credit turn times. And what happens is in a co-branded or co-created product, our revenue is — upfront is of course lower and the trail is linked to in a credit card like product, it’s linked to spend. So, we get a percentage of usage on a monthly basis as a trail.

And as you’ve noted that over the last 12 to 15 months for credit cards, but last five months in personal loans, the percentage of business on trail has increased and that’s reflecting in the increase in the trail revenue, which also links back to the question on profitability being sustained. As we built the back-book or the trail revenue, that flows at about 90% margin and hence, it adds to the overall profitability.

Dipanjan Ghosh — Citi — Analyst

Sure. Thanks, Naveen. Sarbivr, and so on the POSP part, I think think my question was not on the numbers, but on your — and I understand your renewal commissions are protected irrespective of where the customer renews from, but wanted to get some sense on the pass-through that you do to the POSP agent in renewals. Is that renegotiated every year?

Sarbvir Singh — Chief Executive Officer, PolicyBazaar.com

I would not like to go there and it’s honestly, if I were to be very honest with you, I think the answer is not super material to our overall results. It’s really more a thing to give the agent confidence that we will never ever do anything, which affects their interest. That’s the main thing. The rest of the stuff is not super material to the to the whole business. Sure.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

I just wanted to add one thing on Naveen’s answer. I think what you have to note is, Naveen was in this year, he had committed to breaking even on Paisabazaar and he achieved that, but he achieved that while building the renewal revenue and what you must appreciate is as he builds renewal revenue because it’s multi-year revenue, that actually reduces his revenue for the current year, because this is actually the year when he started to build it out.

So from a P&L perspective, it actually adversely impacts him So, if he had not done this, he probably would have had maybe a few crores of extra revenue with the same business. And that would have been — so I’m just explaining the nature of the management that they do think long-term, not just, that this quarter some profit has to be done. I think that is very important. That is I think the biggest thing that you eventually invest in.

Dipanjan Ghosh — Citi — Analyst

Sure. No, no, thanks for the answers and all the best.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Srinath V from Bellwether Capital. Please go ahead.

Srinath. V — Bellwether Capital — Analyst

Hi guys, just wanted to understand the implication of the new tax structure in the income tax and there is a prevailing understanding that a large part of taxpayers will move into the new structure, what would be the impact overall on our business when 80C in both life and health lose exemption on investment broadly for us as well as for the industry from — not just from a premium standpoint but more to understand how useful was the exemptions on investment in conversion would lead times or conversion times get impacted, as these SOPs have been withdrawn? Thank you.

Sarbvir Singh — Chief Executive Officer, PolicyBazaar.com

Yeah, it’s a very interesting question. And as you know, this is really a behavioral economics question more than something that we can forecast, but I’ll just share with you some of the things that we have found out. We have found that people buying for tax reasons has become — so earlier, if you ask three years ago or four years ago, why are you buying health or especially health insurance, people, tax would show up. Today, tax doesn’t show up in the top 3, 4 answers, it shows up in the fifth or sixth answer. In savings, yes, it will show up in the third or fourth. So, I think it’s really hard to say today exactly what will happen.

My personal view is that, yes, there will be some impact, but definitely on the saving side. It may not be very material. I think on the health insurance side perhaps because of COVID, I think why you buy health insurance has become very deeply ingrained and the tax, while welcome I think is not a huge factor on the health side.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

Health and term. I think health and term will be far less impacted by the — so protection will be far less impacted than the savings side is our guess. That we have to see.

Srinath. V — Bellwether Capital — Analyst

Would it be a fair assumption to make that we would be better-off compared to the agency channel because of the pull factor?

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

You know, one, I want to comment on this and I learned something recently and I would actually mention the person whom I learnt it from. So, I was talking to Mr. Tapan Singhel another day, who is the CEO of Bajaj General and I said, sir, you don’t get into all this, you are always very encouraging to everybody and I was meaning in a genuine phrase. And he said, what we have noticed is when the industry grows, we also grow. So, we also are growing at 2 times of the industry here. So, if the industry grows, we are already symbiotic.

You’ll be very surprised, when agency grows, we also grow. When we grow, agency also grows. Everybody grows together and if we all don’t grow, then we have all got debt written on our faces. So, I wouldn’t worry too much about channel one growing or channel two growing, they’re all going to grow together. And to me, that was a great lesson. It is not either or. The customer will buy from multiple places and we all help each other.

Srinath. V — Bellwether Capital — Analyst

Thanks, guys. Have a nice day.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Arpit Shah from Stallion Asset. Please go ahead.

Arpit Shah — Stallion Asset — Analyst

Hello?

Operator

Mr. Shah, please proceed with your question.

Arpit Shah — Stallion Asset — Analyst

Yeah. I just wanted to understand the contribution margins in the existing business. Last three quarters, if you see, the contribution margins has stayed around 45% despite additions of, let’s say the renewal revenues and the productivity that we’ve been gaining from the offline business, which touched probably higher for the offline business as compared to the call center business. So, I just wanted to understand, is the 45% contribution margin, that is something vis-a-vis peakish for us or do you think there are room, there is levers to grow this margin going ahead?

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

No, no, they will they will keep growing. I think again, you are focusing on very few quarters and I think you will start to see something very interesting, as we move forward in the next few quarters. There is lot of mix issue here. Paisabazaar growth, Paisabazaar margins, various, various things that play into it. There maybe some product changes. Savings grew a little faster for us in the year. Savings tends to be a little lower margin than some of our protection products. So, I wouldn’t read too much into it. I think I would focus on the year-on year trend and I would stay with that. We haven’t seen any — you also please appreciate, this is the year when we built-up all the capacity, right. So, I think you should start to see the advantage of that here onwards.

Arpit Shah — Stallion Asset — Analyst

Got it. I just wanted to understand the seasonality. What is typically the quarter four percentage of total yearly revenues?

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, usually that the insurance, we are a little less seasonal than the rest of the industry. So, that’s just the reality, because the customers somehow is a little more protection-oriented than tax-oriented. But yes, there is seasonality. December usually tends to be good month. So, December and January-February-March tend to be four very good months. March tends to be a little stronger than the other months. Around Diwali, usually tends to be lean period simply because people are spending on other things. This is a discretionary spend at the end of it. So, if you’re buying patakas, you don’t think about buying insurance at the same time.

I think lending is much more non-seasonal from that perspective and there’s a little bit connected to motor vehicles and all, which a lot of this are Diwali-oriented. Again December-oriented. People like to — and again, January-oriented people like to buy the new models of cars, etc. I wouldn’t read, but yes, for us, Q4 tends to be the biggest quarter which is why, I think next quarter will be, you like our presentation next quarter a lot more than you’ve liked the last few presentations. So, we will all get lot of well done from you guys next quarter. But I think, yeah — and after that in Q1, we will be probably 5% below that quarter, which is what happens every year and then by Q2, Q3 you catch-up with Q4 and then you hit the ball out of the court in Q4.

Arpit Shah — Stallion Asset — Analyst

Got it. Can you explain how would we reach the breakeven in the Q4 quarter? Typically, like Sarbvir said, we will be adding around INR700 crores of revenue in quarter four and 45% contribution margin.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

What is our EBITDA loss this quarter. It is about INR22 crores.

Arpit Shah — Stallion Asset — Analyst

Right.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

INR28 crores, INR28 crores. So our new initiatives is going to make less loss and how do I tell you. I don’t even know what I’m allowed to say, but in January, our core business has done enough revenue, enough profit to cover the loss of the entire quarter of the new initiatives. So, we are, fairly, fairly happy about the situation we’re in. I think my CFO is telling me I can’t speak more. So, don’t worry.

Arpit Shah — Stallion Asset — Analyst

Got it. Last question, can you — let’s say guide for FY ’24…

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

I’ll share one more little thing with you. We had a plan for the core business profit. It seems like we did 1.5 times of that for the quarter Now, I’m not even telling you what our plan was. I’m not telling you anything, but I’m telling you what the present story is and why I’m sitting very confidently. So, it’s not even a question. Next quarter it will be fine.

Arpit Shah — Stallion Asset — Analyst

Got it. Can you explain the quality of recurring revenues in the credit business? How do you get to recurring revenues? Because couple of quarters back you have never spoken about this recurring revenues in the credit business.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

So, of course, the business on this recurring part was only started a year or a year-and-a-half, and maybe about a year-ago and the thinking was very clear. You would sacrifice some upfront revenue to create some — today, if a person takes credit card and does not use it, we would still get paid then and if a person take a credit card and uses it quite a bit or the same thing on a loan. If a person takes the loan and kind of pays back very quickly, or takes four years to pay back, there are different implications for the bank or the NBFC, but there was no implication for us.

So, in a way, got some skin in the game on the usage part. And the good thing I would say the fair thing from an investor’s perspective, but from whatever perspective, whoever the investor here is that actually the upfront revenue is reduced. So, in the first year, you’re seeing [Indecipherable] and that’s what I explained that with that hit in a year, when Naveen was to breakeven also, I think it’s a very commendable thing. He did the right thing for the organization. Because he could have easily not done this and shown a higher revenue. And the benefits of this will come in the next year because these renewal revenues will obviously become large by then. And you can see every month quarter-on-quarter, this number is growing very fast.

Arpit Shah — Stallion Asset — Analyst

[Indecipherable].

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

Sorry, so what is that?

Sarbvir Singh — Chief Executive Officer, PolicyBazaar.com

No, you can see that on chart 47, what Yashish was mentioning that we are showing the percentage of disbursals and card issues on how that’s growing, percentage on trail revenue. Did that answer your question?

Arpit Shah — Stallion Asset — Analyst

Yes, got it. Just one last question, in the last con-call, you had guided around for INR1,000 crore PAT by FY ’25 and given the numbers that we have seen in this quarter, that number looks pretty much easily achievable for FY ’27. Would you like to revise our guidance, let’s say INR1,500 crores or INR2,000 crores.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

We only say things which are easily achievable. You know, please understand, when say, my reputation is on line on that. So — and I’m not worried about where the share prices are better, Yashish Dahiya’s reputation on the line, more than even Policybazaar’s reputation. So, if I were making INR1,000 crore number, I will not say it, unless I’m like dead sure it’s going to happen unless, probably of course, if we get nuked or something that’s a different issue altogether.

Arpit Shah — Stallion Asset — Analyst

Okay. Given your peer who has just done a buyback, are we looking at a buyback?

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

We don’t talk about anybody. So, please don’t get us into those thinking.

Arpit Shah — Stallion Asset — Analyst

Because you already seeing having a roadmap of INR1,000 crore profitability and using cash.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

As we said, there is no specific answer on that yet and we have not even considered at any level.

Arpit Shah — Stallion Asset — Analyst

Got it. Thank you so much. Best of luck.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll take the last question from the line of Prateek Poddar from Nippon India Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.

Prateek Poddar — Nippon Life India Asset Management Limited — Analyst

Yeah. I just wanted to check with you if you could give a break-up of your premium. I mean, the existing insurance business premium, which you called out that the split was 50/50 between new and renewable into protection, health, savings and…

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

We don’t give those yet. We’ve told you guys we will probably start doing it from next year, but this so far we don’t give it out.

Prateek Poddar — Nippon Life India Asset Management Limited — Analyst

Okay.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

But if you have any specific questions, Rasleen is the right person.

Prateek Poddar — Nippon Life India Asset Management Limited — Analyst

Surely. Sure. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Yashish Dahiya for closing comments.

Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer

Thank you very much everybody for attending. I know it was a bit late for some people on a Friday evening or Friday morning, whatever you’re local time is. Thank you very much for attending and yeah, we’ll speak to you again after three, four months and hopefully, have a much more stronger update. Thank you.

Operator

[Operator Closing Remarks]