PB Fintech Ltd (NSE: POLICYBZR) Q1 2026 Earnings Call dated Aug. 01, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director and Chief Executive Officer
Rasleen Kaur — Head of Investor Relations
Santosh Agarwal — Chief Executive Officer
Sarbvir Singh — Director and Joint Group Chief Executive Officer
Mandeep Mehta — Group Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Sachin Salgaonkar — Analyst
Suresh Vempati — Analyst
Sanket — Analyst
Madhukar Ladha — Analyst
Sachin Dixit — Analyst
Nidhesh Jain — Analyst
Nishin — Analyst
Dipanjan Ghosh — Analyst
Shreya Shivani — Analyst
Presentation:
Rasleen Kaur — Head of Investor Relations
A very good morning and warm welcome to PB FinTech Limited earnings call for quarter one financial year 2025, 2026. Today we have with us Mr. Yashish Dhaya, Chairman and Group CEO PB FinTech Mr. Alok Bansal, Executive Vice Chairman PB FinTech Mr. Saravir Singh, Joint Group CEO PB FinTech Mr. Santosh Agarwal, CEO Pesa Bazaar Mr. Mandeep Mehta, Group CFO Edith FinTech and I’m Rasleen. I request Yashish for his introductory notes.
Yashish Dahiya — Chairman Executive Director and Chief Executive Officer
Thank you very much. Raslin. Good morning to all and, and different good afternoons or good evenings from wherever you’re joining. Thank you very much for joining. I just wanted to start today by first of all acknowledging and thanking our team not just for this quarter but for the continued years and years of very good work. And what I mean by very good work is number one, staying focused on what is right for the consumer, putting that center of everything we do and at the same time delivering every plan. I know we are broadly on plan but every plan, you know, becomes waste the moment you get punched the first time.
And our team takes multiple punches every day and continues to you know, hit plans which is never easy but I just wanted to acknowledge that right up and that that goes for the entire 23,000 of us. So you know, thank you very much. Our total insurance premium this quarter was, was 6,600 crores up 36% year on year. This was led by growth in, in basically the core protection business but specifically health which you know grew at 65% which is the highest in the last nine quarters. And the core online insurance premium grew 35% with 46% from health and term which is the protection area.
Our consolidated operating revenue grew at 33% to 1,348 crores for the quarter. And core insurance was up 37% year on year. Core credit was down 22% year on year. Our renewal and trail revenue of the last 12 month rolling basis is at 725 crores up from 506 crores last year. So about 43%. This you are seeing at a very consistent rate moving at about 43%. For instance the quarterly renewal revenue is at an ARR of 673 crores right now up 47%. This is only for insurance. So the insurance quarterly core revenue is at 673 crores, up 47% year on year.
So what you’re seeing is the insurance revenue is actually been growing at about 47% right now I don’t expect it to be at 47% forever. This would be somewhere in the 45ish range for the foreseeable future. This is a key driver of our long term profit growth. From a rolling 12 month perspective, the delta between four consecutive quarters has been increasing consistently and is now 218 crores. At an overall level, steady growth continues. For our core new insurance premium net of savings business. See this is another metric which we have been highlighting for some time.
If you take the savings part out. Our core business has been growing at plus minus of 40% now for nine quarters and we were at 42% this quarter. Our savings business has grown at more than 100% at times and is currently at about -5%. We continue to support to improve our customer onboarding and claim support services and the insurance CSAT is consistently above 90%. Our credit revenue for the quarter is 102 crores and disbursals are at 2095 crores. For the core online business we continue to strengthen our leaderships in new initiatives with a revenue growth of about 50% year on year with adjusted EBITDA margins moving from minus 12 to minus 6% with a 5% contribution now.
PB Partners, our agent aggregation platform continues to lead the market with 350,000 advisors. We have moved the business increasingly towards smaller and higher quality advisors and the growth is much higher in that segment. We are present now in 19,000 pin codes covering 99% of the pin codes in India. Our UAE business along with our health business is another, you know, star outperformer in the group. They were grow, they’ve been growing at 68 year on year and they have now been profitable for the last two quarters. So that that’s starting to become quite consistent. Our consolidated path for PV Fintech grew from 19 crores excluding exceptional items last year to 85 crores.
So basically from 2% to 6% margin. To summarize our performance since the listing our revenue has grown at a CAGR of 54% from 238 crores in Q1FY22 to 1348 crores in Q1FY26. And our packed margin has grown from minus 47% in that quarter in Q1FY22 to 6% in Q1FY26. Of course we have seasonality so Q1 is usually our, you know, weakest quarter. But that’s just the way the industry is. I’d be very happy to take questions now. Thank you very much.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank You, Yashish. We’ll take a minute for questions to queue up. Please raise your hand and I shall request you to unmute yourselves. We’ll take the first question from Sachin Chalgagar. Move forward. Sachin, please unmute yourself.
Sachin Salgaonkar
Thanks Rasleen. Hope I’m audible. Thank you. Management. I have three questions. First question, want to understand again, how is management thinking in terms of balancing between growth and profitability? Clearly, as Yashish indicated for last seven quarters we are seeing 40% plus growth in terms of core business. But you know, when I look on a yoy basis, your core online EBITDA margin is largely flattish at 14%. So should we sort of look at this business that hey, it’s matured from a margin perspective and management is focusing in terms of growing at 30 or 40 odd percent plus going ahead or should we also continue to see a margin improvement plus the growth out here? So that’s question one.Let me pause here and pass it on to you guys.
Yashish Dahiya
Oh cool. We were taken all three and then answered. Q1 is actually fairly straightforward. Our focus for the time being is entirely on growth. Yes, we will deliver profits, but there will be an outcome rather than. So we are clearly not optimizing for profits right now. There will be a point when we will perhaps optimize for profits. I hope that is as late as possible because we want to. Don’t get me wrong here guys, because this is not meant to be a statement of any sort.
We’re not trying to, you know, we are a profitable company. We will keep becoming more profitable, but that will be a natural course for a while. Of course if we wished we could have a lot more profit right now. But our bias is entirely towards growth.
So whenever there’s a call we have to make on can we make this investment and maybe there’s a doubt that it will help us in terms of growth or not. We will more often than not make that investment and err on the side of having taken on extra cost and not being able to deliver the growth rather than having the growth opportunity and not being able to deliver because we did not take on a particular cost.
So that’s the state we are in now. Just to, you know, Sachin, to specifically get into whether that’s a sign of us maturing or that’s a sign of us, you know, being young, I think that’s a sign of us being young. You could take it whichever way because I feel there’s an easy part which is to deliver the higher profits which we can do at any, any stage. But it’s clearly not the stage to do that. It’s like you know a 14 year old kid. Do I want the highest performance from him today or do I want him to train and have a lot of protein so that he grows into the future and becomes a far stronger, you know, adult.
I think we are in the stage where we are still growing into becoming a far stronger adult in the future. And that is why, you know, any of you notice when we talk about 2030 we start talking about a 1 lakh crore premium. We’re not talking about profitability because for us that is the, that is the, you know, North Pole goal that we want to achieve growth and we want to achieve a certain scale profits will automatically come.
Sachin Salgaonkar
Got it? Very clear Yashish. So that was question. One question to Santosh wanted to understand if there is any change in strategy at Paisa Bazaar since you’ve taken over.
Clearly market especially on credit lending on unsecured continues to remain soft. And I know you guys were exploring and focusing a bit more on secured. So it would be great to understand from you broad changes in strategy since you’ve taken over Pesa Bazaar.
Santosh Agarwal
See I think three things. One, that we are growing the secured area and you’d see that secured has actually come up well. So from a dispersal overall perspective we are growing wild wide. The other bit is I think doing more of, I would say this, we have a lot of existing customer base but 5.3 crore customers are on our platform. We want to do monetize our traffic for other products as well. So you’ll see us doing savings. We’ve already launched bonds, we’ve already launched fixed deposits. You will also see us do mutual funds in a while.
So I think that is another area that we are investing in. And third I would say is building a lot of alternate data sources to basically sharpen our risk ability. Our ability to I think underwrite better and help our partners underwrite better. That is one area we are heavily investing in. So I think the sharpness in risk and being able to qualify a customer better for credit, that is I would say the third area that, that, that you will see us do a lot of work in. So you will see us now you know, doing collections, you’re seeing us now doing bill payment etc.
So a lot of that really builds up from a, a deep risk capability.
Yashish Dahiya
Thank you. Thank you Santosh.
Sachin Salgaonkar
Thank you. And last question, off late. There appears to be some increase in competitive intensity from some of the smaller players and platforms in the New initiative space wanted to understand, you know, are you guys seeing any competitive intensity and any impact of that we could see, you know, which could be visible on the numbers. I think you may be speaking about the POSP platform so I’ll just defer to Sarbir on that.
Sarbvir Singh
I think Sachin, I would say this has been a very competitive space all around. I don’t see anything very dramatic that has changed over there. I think there’s a whole bunch of people who’ve been competing and I think the basis of competition has to shift. We have to focus on more granular business and work with smaller partners and add value to them. So I think that’s the race. It’s no longer actually if you ask me honestly it’s no longer a competitive issue. It’s issue of can we add value to our agent partners and how much so that we can all have better economics.
Yashish Dahiya
So Sachin, I just wanted to add there more from an outside in perspective. See I believe every market with scale starts to become more and more real. So that market in a way started with any scale is equal and any scale is okay. I think slowly the understanding is coming within the investor community as well that look granular business is better and business quality is important and I think people are being able to assess that better. And for us quite genuinely and me and Sarbi were discussing this before our call as well as the market matures towards reality we benefit because we are in, in reality we are actually quite a you know, player that does the right things anyway.
So you know I would say that’s the kind of state at play. I think the market is becoming more and more real and that will that plays to our favor. Very clear. Thank you guys and all the best.
Rasleen Kaur
Thank you Sachin. We’ll take the next question from Suresh Venprati, Macquarie. Suresh, please unmute yourselves.
Suresh Vempati
Thanks Raslin. So you know just one main question is now that health has done so well and of course therm has always been doing well for you guys what would be now your market share in these two products? Yashish, if I were to take retail health premiums overall in the industry what would be PV Fintechs and also also on the retail term roughly if you can state those numbers.
Yashish Dahiya
I’ll try to. But I’ll state something else a little before that because I’ve been thinking deeply about this. The year Policy Bazaar started the total health and term business in the country was about for retail was about 200 crores. So if we thought market share at that time and actually there was an investor that time, Suresh, I won’t name them but they said listen, the total market is 200 crores. If you guys are 30% of this market, that 60 crore opportunity, why should we invest 20 crores behind a business like that? And so they left it out, did not know what the health and term market was and so they did invest and you know, they kind of reaped the benefit.
I think we are not in the market share game and I think that’s a very important statement to make. We are in the market creation game. Since you asked the question, the very specific answer would be I think in health we would be of the fresh retail business. We would be somewhere about maybe somewhere about 15%, 15% or so. And in term we would probably be a quarter of the business in the country. But quite genuinely we don’t think in those terms. We just think in terms of our own scale and if anything is coming.
And I’ll tell you how we think about it. We think in India There is just 3,400 million people who earn sub of about 1 lakh rupees as a family and they can’t afford the current healthcare solution because everything is getting hard. Claims is getting hard, prices are getting hard, everything is tough for them. And we hope we can play a very meaningful role in enabling health insurance for them with our partners and in so doing it make health insurance a much larger industry than it potentially can be in the next four, five years. And should we be a participant in that? We should have a significant part of that growth.
But that is really how we think. I think currently it is a little stuck as an industry but, but yeah, 15% and 25% those would be the real numbers.
Suresh Vempati
And in savings you would be how much?
Yashish Dahiya
Maybe 2% or so.
Suresh Vempati
2%. No, the reason why I’m asking about.
Yashish Dahiya
5% of the non lic maybe, but about 2% overall.
Suresh Vempati
Okay, okay. 5% of non lic. Okay, that’s clear. No, no. The reason why I’m asking this is you guys. I know these questions keep getting asked but you guys have done a very good job about your growth being at 36%. I know you guys have also been realistic that longer term you believe we should grow twice the or medium term. Twice the industry may be closer to about 30%. The problem that I have got is then you are already 25% of the term market and I don’t think the term market is growing beyond 15% and show should be held, you know, when you are already at such a high market share and the industry growth rates itself is curtailed.
It is becoming difficult to digest that you can even grow at 30% when the overall market growth is stunted to some extent. Is that is my assessment right? Or how do you look?
Yashish Dahiya
That is a very fair way of thinking about it and I wouldn’t expect any outside person to think any differently. But that is not how we have ever thought about. That’s the point I was trying to make that when we started in 2008, the total business was only 200 crores and nobody expected it to grow very rapidly if we had thought that way. So I, I’ll make one statement right there is, I’m sure you have a market projection, let’s say of the next 10 years for both health and turbulence, whatever that market projection is. Our belief is Policy Bazaar alone will be bigger than that market projection over the next 10 years.
But now that is the gap, right? The gap is we are coming at it from there is an opportunity out there. We feel we are better placed at solving that opportunity and that opportunity is solved. The market will actually grow much faster. And we also believe there is two parts of the market and we believe we are a contributor to the growth of the market. So as we become bigger and bigger, the market actually does start to grow faster. Okay, you heard for example, for example, you know, you heard one of the public players go out there and say that look, our digital business is growing at 73% right? So it’s not like yes, we are growing, but the digital business of the entire industry is growing and somewhere this is a, this is a phase shift in that part of the business is perhaps going to grow faster because perhaps it has better disclosures, perhaps it has better, you know, cost controls at the back end.
So there are things that are happening which make it a more viable business. All I’m going to say is there’s a more sustainable way of doing business and that sustainable way doesn’t have a scale problem. And there’s a kind of non sustainable, which does have a scale problem.
Suresh Vempati
There’s one last question on the savings thing. I’ll just squeeze in. So you are right now 2% of the market, but it’s stuck in on that for quite some time. Yashees. Right. And the growth has not been great here. I mean that’s an enormous opportunity because 80, 85% of the market is savings business. What’s, what’s, what’s wrong here or what’s getting stuck here as to why you’re not able to do this at a fast.
Yashish Dahiya
So Suresh, I’ll just answer that question once and then I’ll hand over to Sarabir. At IPO we were 0.4%. We’re at 2% now. So in three years we have moved from 0.4 to 2%. But I think Sarabi is perhaps better placed at why we are at 2% and not at 15 like health etc.
Sarbvir Singh
Yeah, thanks Ashish. I think the. Suresh, Suresh, It’s a very difficult question to answer on an open forum. I would say that, you know, you have to look at it from a relevant perspective. If you look at Ulips, if you look at the better quality products that are sold, I think we are, I think our share is more meaningful and we always believe and in line with what Yashish was explaining on health and term that in the end the better quality products will win and they will become a greater and greater part of the market.
And as that happens our growth will also come. So I think it’s a, it’s an enormous long term opportunity. There are like the, we have entered the pension area, you know, in the last 12 months, I think slowly but surely we are building a very robust business in that side and you would agree that pension is a very big opportunity in the country and it is coming, it is going to be a issue for the next 10, 15, 20 years. So I think we are building such, I would say anchor legs. We are selling very high quality products.
I would encourage you to look at a slide that we have in the deck which actually shows that some of the low cost products that we sell on a cost basis are lower than mutual funds. So you know, from a time when ULIPs were discredited and there was a concern around cost structure, etc. To a point where they are now in the long run actually better than mutual funds. So I think we are moving. It takes time, you know the, it will take time for these lower quality products to come through and when they come through, I think we will, you know, all these questions about market share etc will become less relevant.
So it’s, it’s a, it’s a game of patience. Now I would look at.
Suresh Vempati
Sure. Thanks so much sir.
Rasleen Kaur
Thank you Suresh. We’ll take the next question from Sanket Goda, a vendor Spark Sanket, please unmute yourself.
Sanket
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Just again on that health point, see we know that underlying industry is not growing. So, so you delivered 50, 65% growth in the current quarter is it fair to tell that large part of your growth was driven because you have a higher contribution to long term policies. Because. Because that materially improves the growth for you. And on that line just wanted to understand given you have chosen to take commission on in a deferred way in the long term policies, is it fair to say that your take rates because you are chosen to take in a deferred way will be better when you recognize on upfront basis on revenue? That’s my first question.
Yashish Dahiya
So saket on the revenue part I will defer to Sarabir. I just wanted to answer one question not just for you but for everybody. When we say we’ve grown at a particular rate, our number of transactions has actually grown at faster than that. So that lays to rest all kinds of questions like has ATS grown faster? Has you know, number of you know, has. Has. Have you done multi year policies more than last year? All of those questions get laid to rest. I will answer one last thing which just came to my mind. It’s not because one customer is buying three policies.
It is simply because, because that can also happen. So the simple question is we are adding more customers than ever before and our number of customers added is is growing at a faster rate than our premium growth. But after that I will just because this is something I obviously check s can answer the question on the, you know, commission side and the, and the you know, cash flow side.
Sarbvir Singh
So. So Sanket, I think as Yashit explained, I’ll just again say it simply. There are no games in this 65% number. This is, you know, based on number of policies going up, number of lives covered going up. Our multi year share is roughly the same as it was last year in fact in decimal points here and there. And you know, we get paid, you know, as per the rules, you know, on a yearly basis. That has not changed our outlook towards that business in any way. And that’s how we are continuing. So I think if I were to actually answer your question, maybe the real question that you’re asking as to what is driving this growth, then I would say that three things.
One is people have, I think customers have seen the value that Policy Bazaar brings in terms of comparison in terms of having more efficient products. They are buying those products, they are getting a better customer experience both in the policy issuance process and at the point of claim. And that is in turn creating a positive word of mouth. And you know, our marketing is, if you see our marketing is totally talking about how people are being benefited at the point of Claim. So I think that whole, it’s a virtual circle right now. And you know, as Yashi said right up front, I would say that our teams are doing an outstanding job.
You know, we are, we have set up regional presence. We are, you know, we have fit on street team. We are know. So I think every part of the business is firing and I think that’s why you are seeing the results. So so far it looks like it’s a, it’s a very robust performance.
Suresh Vempati
Got it. So okay, thanks for that one. And the second question, just wanted to check on the new initiatives contribution margin which, which every quarter seems to be improving. Today it is at 5.3 percentage for the quarter one. So, so can you give a bit of color of this 5.3 broken down into POSP, UAE and Corporate where, where this improvement in the contribution margin in new initiatives is coming from? Maybe if you can break this 5.3.
Yashish Dahiya
No, no, I’ll explain, I’ll explain. See there is, there is three aspects to it. I don’t know if we want to give out all the specifics right now but see UAE has become profitable and so obviously that contributes to the, to the margin.
In fact, I think, I think UAE and corporate kind of balance each other so they together become very close to zero. And POSP has been improving in margins, it has been growing in scale and improving in margins and it’s just the quality of business they are doing and they’re constantly transforming towards smaller and smaller partners. So I think overall I would say look, if you want directionally there’s a likelihood that next year we should be very close to you know, numbers which have become meaningless from a profit or loss perspective, both from in a new initiative perspective.
But we don’t want to hold ourselves to it. As I have always said we could end up being a bit countercyclical in this because we do want market share and I don’t think we will hold ourselves back for any short term profit delivery target. We will always do what we think is best for the long term strength of the business. So yeah, that’s, that’s the sort of story there. Yash is the reason I’m asking is this, this 5.3 can say, say improve to say by end of FY27, around 7 and a half 8 percentage. Or, or you assume this number to hold up at, at the current levels, I would say next year you should expect it to be about zero.
I don’t know. Did you, were you asking from a more short term perspective than next year? Or, or anything even, even in long term, say FY30 if, if you really want this number, the contribution margin or EBITDA margin, how do you look this business to play out? Maybe maybe a few percentage points. There isn’t, there isn’t that much margin in a. Please understand a POSP business. I’ve explained this and you know this very well Sanket. It’s basically a pass through business. So when you have your revenue, a bulk see it’s, it’s somebody else’s business which you are providing them a tech layer for.
But your revenue accounting is essentially for the entire business. Right. So yes you are getting a commission of let’s say 100 rupees. But of that 85, 90 is going to somebody else. So eventually as a percentage of revenue only about 10, 15, whatever is staying with you. And in that you have to incur all your costs. So it can’t be a, you know, it can’t be like the core business. Right. So but yes, it can deliver something. And you know I would say let’s see, we’re not putting pressure on that but I would suspect maybe something like a 5 percentage point should, should appear at some point.
But whether it happened by 2030 or 2029 or 31, I don’t know. Okay. Okay. So. So basically long term you, you believe this is a 5% adjusted EBITA margin business. In, in that sense. Let’s see, let’s see. Got, let’s see. But yes, yes, why not? Got. Got. And and lastly few data keeping points. If you can give a premium breakup of POSP Corporate and UAE. UAE we have but maybe POSB Corporate if you can give. And second in new initiatives, revenue of 514 crores. Can you break it down into insurance and credit? Yeah. So corporate is 430 crores.
POSP is about, is almost 1300. UAE you already have. And what did you want? You wanted new initiatives revenue of 514crores broken down into credit and insurance. That much I don’t have here. I, you know maybe, maybe the screen can answer that offline or something. I don’t know.
Sanket
Okay, perfect. That not a problem. That’s it for myself. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Sanket. We’ll take the next question from Shreya. Shivani. Clsa Shreya, please unmute yourself.
Shreya Shivani
Yeah. Hi. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Yeah. Just, just on the data keeping question you had given the PB partner. Sorry PB Connect revenue last quarter of 55 crore. Have you shared the equivalent number for 1Q and my second question is also again on, on the data keep on. On ESOP cost. So we were following a certain trajectory. The ESOP cost which has come in at about 55 crores. Can you help us understand what would be the outlook for the next two years? Probably. Now my two main questions apart from this is first is on ULIP savings business and we had indicated that we are considering certain other sectors or certain other segments where would, where we would want to expand into. Can you elaborate anything incremental on that? And my second question is while I appreciate the part that for growth you would want you. You are prioritizing growth and for that you know your expenses are up in this quarter but what I see is that your expenses outside contribution has picked up faster than the expenses within contribution. So wanted to understand how does this pan out when you start the year? How does it pan out that if it is for growth shouldn’t have been the expenses within the contribution that should have scaled up.
And just trying to understand how does the math math work out. Thank you.
Yashish Dahiya
Sure. No, thank you. So PB Connect is 43 crores this year. So whatever it was for 50 something and there’s a bit of seasonality in that. On the non Ulip we had an aspiration to grow into pensions. Please appreciate pensions was almost zero last year. It’s about 15 of our savings business now and getting bigger of course charity plans. I don’t know if you want to say something specific on that. On.
Sarbvir Singh
Yeah, I mean child plans are on a ULIP chassis only. So yeah they’re not much.
Yashish Dahiya
So when you, when you think about ESOP charges, see basically if the management performs, which I think we are all working very hard and we will then the management must be rewarded. I have zero doubts there. Now the only thing we can say, and that’s what came across in our ESOP thing is we will only get rewarded when the. When over a long period of time, over a five year, eight year period. The stock price also does well. Of course we’re getting rewarded in terms of our basic compensation. But our ESOP compensation is largely linked to our share price performance over the long term.
So we are aligned with investors in that respect. And yes it will over time increase and decrease. That’s okay, but it will, it will be associated with the, with the sort of, you know, price movement. Then we have new initiatives in new initiatives. They, because they are not, they are not yet profitable. The management team’s long term incentive planning is linked to the profitability of those business. So the Only number that matters to the management. But this is not from a short term perspective. It’s with a eight year view. Their entire, you know, ESOP is or whatever you want to call it, long term incentive plan is all linked to those businesses becoming profitable and, and significantly profitable because that is when they make serious money on expense planning.
See what you have as a contribution and non contribution line. There’s also brand out there and sometimes in a brand one month we may do something extra, one month we may not do enough. But over the year the cost will not grow in line with our revenue. It will grow at maybe about two thirds of our revenue growth or so increments. Increment it this quarter. And you know, increments is something that hit every quarter, so every year but they hit in the Q1. So when the increments happen you can have some, you know, coming, some impact coming from that.
So that is how it is. But otherwise if there any detail, I’m sure RA can provide that. But that is how the planning happens. Of course, before the beginning of the year we do have a plan. Obviously we don’t just have a plan, we kind of have a multi year plan usually and we give out some of those numbers to the market like we did about four or five years ago about our 2027 profitability. Today we are broadly starting to talk about our 2030 premium numbers. But more than that we don’t put out in the market in terms of our short term business plans.
But of course our intent is not to have our fixed cost growing at, you know, faster than our revenue. Of course not.
Shreya Shivani
Got it. And sorry, I am probably, I missed, I didn’t understand on the pensions you mentioned that you’ve already started scaling up the business versus it being at zero last year. Right. That’s the only product that you’re, you’re think you’ve decided to go ahead.
Yashish Dahiya
There are two products. See at a fundamental level when you think about insurance, there are four products that matter to Social Security. There are actually five, but I’ll talk about all five. First is health and pensions because you can fall ill and if you get older you need to cover yourself for pensions. The second is term and child education. If people die early, then they can have a problem with their family costs. That is term insurance. And just in case something goes wrong, people haven’t planned adequately for their children’s education. That can get affected. These four and then to some extent credit is another enabler of Social Security in various situations.
Right. These are five products we focus on now ULEP was a somewhat market linked opportunity, did have a component but our intent was always to sell more child education and pension plans. And I’ll hand over to Sarabi to explain that. There’s been a beautiful transition in that over the last year.
Sarbvir Singh
But yeah, I think Shreya, the way to think about it is that you know, product is a means to an end. Right. And I think ULIP we believe is a more efficient and in a growing country like India, equity is a better long term solution. So if you’re trying to save money for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, then equity is the most efficient solution. And you can look at Indian equity returns over. I’m sure you guys know better than us that over the last 10 years, any rolling basis you will find that they tend to converge around 14, 15%.
So that is the basic philosophy that we have. In that philosophy we try to offer products for child, children education. As just explained, we have created a pension line where we are talking about long term savings for pension products. These are accumulation products. Then they have a annuity component. You can have straight out accumulation if you like. Then the third thing that we have focused on is protection of capital. For a lot of people the concern is that they don’t want, they want the upside of the market but they also want to protect their capital that they are investing.
So we have a capital guarantee solution which is comprised of a ULIP as well as a fixed return non part product. So I think these are broadly, I would say the three big areas that we focus on over time we will look at especially as Pasa Bazaar gets into the savings area, we will look at forming more complete solutions for some of these areas and I think that’s the direction we are going right now. We have no particular interest in going down other savings insurance products at this point.
Shreya Shivani
Yeah, understood, understood. So, so just just one follow up last over here. So in this pension product there’s a slide where you’ve mentioned how many partners you have in the savings in savings and in health insurance etc. So almost all of the partners are offering the offering the pension product or it’s just at an essence stage and you’re doing it with some partners. It’s not 14 insurance partners. Is that a correct way to think?
Sarbvir Singh
It’s pretty much everyone. I think it’s over 10 already and you know, whoever is left is slowly come on board. I think everybody sees this opportunity and I think we are presenting an attractive way of accessing that, that audience.
Shreya Shivani
All right, this is very useful. Thank you and all the best.
operator
Thank you, Shreya. We’ll take the next question from the Panjan Ghosh City dependent. Please unmute yourself.
Dipanjan Ghosh
Hey. Hi. Good morning everyone. So just few questions from my side. First, in terms of your hybrid channel, would it be possible to quantify the sort of sales personnel or feet on street really supporting that journey and how would that have scaled up over the past few quarters or years? Second, on the POSP side of the business, if you can quantify the mix between motor and non motor and if there is a strategy to increase the non motor portion as your granularity of the franchise on the PV partner side increases. And third is on the PAISA side.
You have mentioned at the start of the call that you will be introducing mutual funds out there. And when we see the broader space, it seems that most of the platform players are kind of converging towards the stage where the focus is on mass wealth advisory. Sort of a proposition. So would broking be on the radar for you guys? So those are my three questions. Actually, you know what, SARAP is better placed at answering at least the first two. And we come to Pesa. So both the hybrid and the posp.
Sarbvir Singh
Yeah, so we have about, I would say almost 25% of our sales team is, you know, present in over 200 cities where we offer, you know, feet on street capability. About 30% of our business, you know, comes from there.
Dipanjan Ghosh
Of our health and health and life.
Sarbvir Singh
Yeah, of our health and life assisted business. So I think that was on the FOS side. I think the second question was on PB Partners and granularity. I think what, you know, I would just say on that two things. One is that the percentage of business that we are doing with smaller agents is growing, I would say every month. And the contribution of them to the business is now almost two thirds or more of the business comes from people who are doing very small amounts of business every month. And I think that that to us is the most important metric.
And as we go forward, the second metric that matters is that what are other things that these people are doing? So you know, one of the powerful parts of a platform is for an agent to be able to do other things. So if they sell motor insurance, which mostly people do on our platform, can they sell some health insurance, can they sell some PA cover, can they sell some life policies, etc. So I think that part of the, you know, the cross sell is also continuing to grow every month. So I think those are the two things I would say at this point.
I Mean, wouldn’t want to get into too much detail beyond this PESA also.
operator
I’ll just hand over to Santosh to kind of answer the question about mutual funds and, and about, you know, more than that.
Santosh Agarwal
See on, I think the mutual fund side. See if you see, I think the industry is growing, you know, at 20% rate. So if you see there’s still a lot of adoption coming from a PESA perspective because we have a very young customer and that customer needs both, I would say saving solutions and credit solutions. So having both on one platform makes I would say the platform far richer from an engagement perspective, solution perspective. And also that when these customers come to our platform we already know, you know, what is, how much do they save.
We already have a PFM product called PV money. So we did have access to what is the money lying in the bank account. And all we are doing is educating people to say that. Why do you want to keep money growing at two and a half, 3% when you can, you know, invest in equity, especially when you’re young and take benefits of the country that we are in and make money at least, you know, 12, 15 Kaggle is something that this industry can generate for you. It is an extremely, I would say consumer centric product.
And we see a lot of. So see with just with bonds being launched, you know, a month back, we are already at a 1 crore A without this, without any marketing spend. So I think that also I would say raises the confidence that there is, there is a customer who’s wanting to look at good saving solutions. And I think PAISA should be that platform.
Yashish Dahiya
See, I think it’s very, very early days. PASA right now has a dual challenge as I see it. One is they have a current quality of operations and a current quality of business which they are transforming very rapidly. And second is there is a future platform that’s being built. I would encourage some of you to spend time on the PB Money part of PESA Bazaar. That’s there. It’s in early stages but you see account aggregator platforms have really leveled the playing field in terms of what you can offer to consumers from access to their own banking data and access to their own investing data perspective.
And to some extent PESA is leveraging that to build up a platform with its own consumer base without further marketing. But as he said, early days, I think this is going in many ways. Corporate deposits, mutual funds, there could be some pension element here. There are various pieces coming along at this point. Not a major revenue driver. The big revenue driver continues to be lending, I’ll just share one thing and it’s, I know, you know, businesses have financials and businesses have a soft part of it. Not the soft part of it. I call it the harder part of it.
As I interact with Pesa’s partners and now I’ve been interacting with quite a few. What I hear across the board is that your focus on quality of book has changed and they feel far more comfortable with us as we distribute for them into the future. And that is the soft change one is seeing. Also from a platform’s perspective, what you’re seeing is a lot of the backend platforms that Policy Bazaar had built, which have a lot of integrated capability in them, are somewhere being leveraged by Pesa Bazaar now because the Pesa Bazaar platforms were not of the same quality in terms of overall ability.
Policy Bazaar is perhaps one of the world’s best sales platforms, whereas Pesa Bazaar was quite early stage in that. So a lot of changes are happening in the background which should, you know, which should, which should make good sense. But on this part, very early days. So I wouldn’t account for too much in terms of what’s going to happen in virtual funds or you know, investment products. Just one small follow up to Servee, you mentioned 25% of your sales team is deployed in these 200 plus cities. What would this similar number would have been, let’s say last year.
Sarbvir Singh
It’S been growing, you know, I would say to have been in the late teens, maybe 15, 16.
Yashish Dahiya
Yeah, maybe even, maybe even 20. Maybe. I don’t know. Yeah, so see now it is not growing at a very dramatic pace anymore. I think what is happening is it’s deepening a lot more. So you know, which city, how much, what kind of people, what, what mechanism. And see it’s a little bit of a, of a area where. So in some cities the call center person is taking calls and also doing physical meetings. In some cities we would have dedicated people who are only doing feet on street who get appointments. So it’s a mixed model.
What you can see is it seems to have settled on the assisted businesses. About 30% of our business seems to be coming from physical meetings. This might grow a bit. I would say if you look three, four years out, maybe it’s 50%.
Dipanjan Ghosh
Got it. Thank you everyone and all the best.
operator
Thank you. Deepanjan. We’ll take the next question from Nishin. Please unmute yourself.
Nishin
Yeah, hi. Oh, hope I’m audible.
operator
Yes, yes.
Nishin
Yeah. Thanks to just two questions. One is, you know, what was the Receivable figure as on June. I know you don’t share the entire balance sheet but it could just share this number
Yashish Dahiya
Receivable figure. So you know, Rain can provide that to you. But I wanted to, you know, I’m trying to understand the question behind the question. So look, there is going to be till September a little bit of drag on cash flow from normal course that is because on the one by N the collection is on one by N basis. This is a cycle that’s playing out since last September.
It will play out till September this year. The other point is of course our health is growing very rapidly and that is where this one by N has some impact. But it’s not, you know, at our scale it’s not material enough. It’s just being digested in the flow is what I would say. But Raseem can share the exact numbers.
Nishin
Sure. The other one was on tax rate. If you could guide your tax rate is I think closer to 7, 8%. So what sort of a tax rate we would be for this year and the next year could give some guidance on that.
Yashish Dahiya
Yeah, Mandeep has got an opportunity to speak here.
Mandeep Mehta
Fine. So our tax is basically primarily to track policy bazaar. You will notice that we have accumulated losses, the carry forward losses benefit which is available to write to us right now. And whatever tax we are paying is largely on our investment income which we drive from investing our surplus funds. So otherwise there’s no special tax rate to us. This is nominal rate of tax which is applicable to all businesses. It’s just a combination of business profits, other income and carry forward losses. But yeah, somewhere, somewhere about you know 8 to 10% is I think the, the right number to assume for the, for the next 18 months or so.
Nishin
And the profitability guidance that you have shared in the past that that’s assumer assumes 8 to 10% tax.
Mandeep Mehta
Never have you nasty ever heard us change our guidance, our long term guidance.
Nishin
No,
Mandeep Mehta
That’s it. If we haven’t changed now if you’re so close to that, why would we change it now?
Nishin
I’m not saying change. I’m saying that, that, that it stays,
Mandeep Mehta
it stays exactly the way it is. Nothing, nothing ever changes. And please appreciate we don’t give short term guidance. We usually give these four fears four or five years out and like, like let me give an example.
Right, right now we’re saying we want to do 1 lakh crores of insurance premium in 2030. What if we do 95? Is that bad? Not really. If we do 105 if you do 110, is that great? It’s okay. The point is we observe, we should be there. We put out a goal which is sort of feels good to everybody and we should be about there. Yeah, it’s okay, I think. And then we feel confident. That should be fine. There’ll be no challenge there. Now if people in their own mind assume it’s only much more than that and much less than that, that’s their minds working, that’s not us saying anything.
And please do. I wanted, I want to point out one thing in this you will face challenges like just to give you the operational part of it, Pesa Bazaar in the year 2024 had a 64 crore profit. Right. They may barely hit 64 in 2027. Now when I put that out, obviously I thought in my back pocket I had 200 crores of profit from Pesa Bazaar because if it’s gone from now, maybe the quality of that wasn’t as strong. And that is why we are facing a challenge. But these things will happen and we have always factored in sufficiently when we give our long term guidances for a few hits here and there.
And what I take heart from is not that gap on the peso side. What I take heart from is the quality of business is actually improving and now we have control over the quality of business. So you know, but, but I’m just trying to explain to you how when you’re managing stuff some things will go wrong and you have to always factor for that in and still achieve your plans so your plans will always have a bit of buffer. Got it, Got it. Fair enough. Thank you very much and all the best and, and please appreciate, you know our health growth is not helping our short term profitability.
But, but that doesn’t mean we don’t do it. It will be almost hierarchy to not do our fresh health. That’s true, that’s true.
operator
Thank you Nishin. We will take the next question from Nadesh Jain Investec. Nadesh, please unmute yourself.
Nidhesh Jain
Thanks Afreen. So I have two questions. First question is on trends on the health insurance renewal take rates because we believe that as the vintage of the portfolio increases, the economics for that portfolio for health insurance companies deteriorates. So how do you think about the trends over longer term on the health insurance renewal take rates.
Yashish Dahiya
So nitesh, I will defer to Sarabir for a more medium term answer. I’ll explain to you in the long term. In the long term we are responsible for our business. Whatever we say, whether we believe it whether we don’t believe it at our scale, we will never be able to pass on even 1% loss to anybody.
And that is not a reason why anybody should work with us. Our objective is to make sure we have a sustainable, profitable industry and we want to work with all our partners in making sure that our business stays profitable in the long run and we will never shirk away from being partners with them and taking on that responsibility and making sure. What we also expect in the long run is that as we do that we also have more and more control over our destiny in the sense if it is our customers and we are in some way responsible for bringing down their claims ratios, then we should also be part of that in making sure that we help in that and we work in that direction.
And I think eventually the industry is getting more and more real. So as I said, whenever the industry gets real, that actually benefits us. I, I’ll hand over to Sarabi because he’s the one who’s kind of dealing with the situation on a regular basis.
Sarbvir Singh
I, I think Nish, I 100% agree with whatever is she said. I think, you know, there is no, I mean one can, there’s always tempting to make predictions for this year, next year and all that, but the truth of the matter is that at this point we have a favorable fresh to renewals ratio. Our quality of our book is better than I would say average. We are actively managing the book, you know, whether in the short run in terms of disclosure, in terms of looking at different cohorts, how to, how to manage that with our partners.
And the final thing I would say is that you know, all that we are doing on the PV health side in a way is going in that direction. That where we are saying that the industry will go more and more towards preferred networks, work with more, work more with providers who are providing a more efficient outcome from a health, you know, both from a consumer perspective as well as from a economic perspective. So I think over a period of time we are part of the change that the industry is going towards and the direction that the industry is going.
And I think in that scenario we will get our fair share of what is due to us. And I don’t particularly at this point see that being a huge challenge. Having said that, if we don’t take action and we don’t move in the direction that we ought to, then definitely what you’re saying is right, that there will be pressure on everything. So I think that’s how we look at it. It’s a Dynamic thing versus a static. View of the world. And I think we are moving directionally to solve these problems.
Nidhesh Jain
Thank you. Can you also comment on this near term trends that we have seen in the renewal take rates, are they steady?
Yashish Dahiya
At this point we have not seen any change.
operator
Sure. And second question is on trade business EBITDA margin and contribution margin for Q1. If you can share that on the credit business. Santosh. Okay, let me try and do that. Do you want to just say it.
Santosh Agarwal
From contribution perspective here at 41 and adjusted EBITDA has been on for core for credit it will be closer to 30%. On adjusted EBITDA margin basis it will be minus 20. Minus 20%, right? Yeah. On an overall basis would be 14%.
Yashish Dahiya
See when you look at the credit business cycle term I think the last till till about July, August last year we benefited because of very high approval rates in the industry. Today we are on the opposite side of that. I think we have not just. I think we have, we have bottomed out clearly we are on a month on month growth course. However, this is an issue you will see with somewhere with our savings business and with our credit business. We have been benchmarked with our high marks. Our high marks were last year, August, September and of course those were, those were great positions.
But we’re being now benchmarked against them. That’s fine. I’m sure next year we’d be benchmarked against these lows. If anything these may or may not be lows. So I think we are good to take that and we’ll move in that direction. I think we as I said on the savings side the great news is pensions, child plans becoming much bigger part of the, of the channel. On the credit side the big advantage is we are now becoming very good quality partners with our, with our suppliers. I’m increasingly hearing from our suppliers that listen, on your old book I want to pay less but in a new book maybe we can pay a little more.
And that’s a great sign because that implies they are more comfortable with the quality. Of course it’s early days but the focus is much steeper in terms of getting data pieces together etc. But yes, with stress right now. And just one more clarification on the PB money. So the mutual fund that we will be originating, is it a fee earning mutual fund or its direct plans? Okay, thank you. That’s it for my side. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. We’ll take the next question from Sachin Dixon, GM Financial. Sachin, please unmute yourself.
Sachin Dixit
I had Couple of questions I know some of. I mean this question at least the first one has been answered in some way or the other. Right. So my question on this is on the contribution margin side for core business, right? We have seen a yoy dip. Obviously there are factors which you highlighted that you have been investing in things. Can you give us some drivers or some pointers onto what is driving this dip? Because at least on YY basis renewal income should have come from last year and also there should have been slightly upward trajectory is what we are anticipating.
So you know, in a very simple terms, our renewal business has grown but equal amount is our fresh health business and our fresh health business has grown faster. Our fresh health business on a one year EBITDA basis probably operates at minus 20%. Our renewal business probably operates 75, 80%. So obviously there’s a trend upwards and this trend downwards. Clearly that is the reality. It’s just that the trend which is coming from fresh health growth is. And, and the second part is credit. Sorry if you’re looking at the core business because I was talking about just the insurance part, but if you’re looking at the credit business, I think the insurance part is stable.
I think it’s at 43. It was at 43. It’s the credit business which is on the, on the negative and that is what has caused the problem. Understood, understood. My second question is a bit more. Credit business has lost about 15, 15% on the, on the contribution margin. Fair enough, fair enough. My second question is on basically slightly higher level, right? In the presentations you have highlighted how the penetration of life and non life insurance is happening. Right. And what we see is that the penetration has now dipped back to FY18 odd levels. So I mean obviously PB has done quite a lot, has grown quite well during the same time period.
What do you think is actually plaguing the Indian insurance sector? Like how do we recover out of this? How do we actually play the insurance story in the long term? Yeah, I think we can only speak for ourselves and I would say we are part of the solution. The solution is complex. It’s never a straightforward solution in India. It always looks like it’s very straightforward. The moment you get into the 400 million Indians who are in that zone of earning under one lakh rupees a year. But, but they are the middle class and they are the aspirational class and they do not, they want their children to do much better than themselves.
So they invest in child education, they want to make sure that they have health coverage. All those things. The moment you speak about that segment it is not a simple solution because on one side they are seeing price hikes, on another side they are seeing stress on claims. It’s all been the news. There’s nothing I need to say there. Right. That’s the reality of the situation. And they are looking for solutions. And that is where I believe exactly what Sarabh said, that somewhere Policy Bazaar is coming out as their handholder. Who can help at the point of claims, who can help at the point of issuance, who can give them the right guidance, who also keeps them on the right path in terms of disclosures and overall is part of the solution.
And as that grows, the industry doesn’t have a lack of opportunity. I think our solution may have had challenges with circumspectness, with covering all the different angles. And I think as we start to cover all the different angles and a solution does appear, I don’t think that has a challenge in terms of growth. So somewhere you’re going to see a big transformation towards a more viable, more growing, more stable industry. Today our nominal GDP growth rate we were discussing in 10 years our nominal GDP is triple for the country. There is no reason why insurance should not have been 6x or 10x given the under penetration levels.
And I think that’s absolutely achievable as long as the right solution gets created in a very circumspect manner. That’s a challenge. It’s not an easy trivial problem to solve. You know one other thing certain, just think about insurance and a product. Eventually you’re getting into a contract where both sides have to be truthful and if the disclosures are not up to the level it’s required, that impacts the whole claim experience as well. So you know it’s a very tough situation for the industry. You’re right. You know people need to get this product early on in their career in their journey but somewhere, you know, they think of the product very, very near to the actual claim incidents and that obviously doesn’t help anyone.
So it will be more about education, it will take time. We do what we do at AC said, I mean in terms of creating awareness, in terms of fraud control, in terms of higher disclosures, now trying to help customer with the claim for last couple of years, trying to look at the garage networks, hospital network, everything. But yeah, we are still a very small part of the total industry so we can do what we can do. Sure. Thanks Alok. Just my final question on the healthcare foray side we have not heard much so any update will be helpful.
Thank you. And all the best. Nothing much. The work is going on in terms of both creating the whole healthcare service layer, which includes hospitals as a physical part, and a lot of other stuff from the tech solutioning, from the digital GP layer, from, you know, creating a lot of solutions which can keep patients outside the hospital. You know, it’s a slow build in that sense. It will take us another few quarters to get everything in place and that’s when the real impact starts to come in. See, the way to think about any of these stuff that we do, whether it’s PP Health or Garage network or a lot of stuff that you talk heard about the credit space that we are trying to do today is not to do immediately something which is going to impact in next quarter or two quarters, planning for next few years of how we see industry shaping up.
And we need to be ready when that opportunity appears. So this will take time. I think in about a year time you’ll start to see some impact. But yeah, you’ll have to give us almost a year from now. And Sachin, just to kind of answer that question, right, we already have a consumer base. What should we be doing with our consumer base? Right. People who are not very well, we should start working with them and trying to make sure they take the right steps to stay out of hospital. We should start to guide our people at the point of renewals towards narrow networks.
We should start to guide our people, our consumers, and I say our people are consumers, towards, you know, using hospitals appropriately in terms of different care pathways at home care, daycare, secondary care, tertiary care. Right. I think you will see us acting on all those steps, which apps are absolutely integrated into making health insurance more viable for the same consumers and giving them a great walk in walkout experience. Now, please do appreciate whatever I said, all of that does not necessarily require us to be in the physical infrastructure. Right? So you will, you will see the whole thing playing out.
There are a lot of actions that will happen even before the physical infrastructure comes into place. And I think as you see the next few quarters, you will hear a lot more action happening from our side on that front, along with our partners. I think we as an industry need to work together in this, in solving this problem. Got it. And all the best. Thank you.
operator
Thank you, Sachin. We’ll take the next question from Madhukar Lado Madhukur, Please unmute yourself.
Madhukar Ladha
Hi. Morning. Thank you for taking my question. So first, if I calculate the renewal insurance score, online renewal revenue, take rate, I’M not seeing any improvement over there. I would have expected some improvement over there given that over the years we’ve been selling more health. So what exactly is causing this drag? Second, if I look at the indirect costs of the new initiatives that have grown pretty sharply in this quarter, so my calculation suggests that that’s grown about. 41% year over year. So I wanted to get a sense. Of what is driving this and on.
Madhukar Ladha
A continuing level, what should that sort of number be? And third, on, you know, health business is growing really well for us and, and we’re saying that new business health growth is at 65% year over year. So I wanted to get a sense of, you know, what is the, the port in business over here and how much of the Portin is from within our customer base, you know, opting for.
Madhukar Ladha
A new, a new sort of insurer. And how much of the Portin is from, from outside our sort of customer base who, who are coming to us. So, so yeah, that, that would be, yeah, those would be my three questions. I have some data keeping questions also. Which I’ll go later. So on the, on the renewal take rates, you know, FY24, we were at 6.5%. FY25, we were at 6.7%. Now we’re at 6.9%. These are not going to change dramatically, but they are sort of on the way up if anything. And that is reflective of the fact that health is becoming a larger part of the renewal base.
Mandeep Mehta
In AP terms. That’s not always, I mean AP terms, you know, it remains pretty, pretty stable. Because you know, our renewal rates of life are also very high. Yeah. And what happens is that health, the vintage renewal rates, you know, take rates are obviously lower than the first year renewal take rate. So actually there are lots of puts and takes. I would not, I mean, I think you’re going to a level of detail which is hard to model from the outside. So it’s, that’s the only reason. Otherwise as said, they have inched upwards over the years.
Mandeep Mehta
Over the years. Yeah, that’s, that’s right. But I was just looking at it. On a year over year basis like Q1 to Q1. But I get your point that yes. Look at these things on a rolling 12 month or a year over year basis. Very hard to model months, you know.
Madhukar Ladha
Understood, understood. Got it. Yeah. I think both the indirect costs on new initiatives as well as the port questions, I would refer to Sarabir, but on the port I would essentially say we are part of the solution. We’re not Part of the problem, but I’ll kind of leave you there.
Mandeep Mehta
But you know, the most recent number in portability. So I’ll, you know, first of all, for our own base, we don’t port. So we do not encourage customers to renew with another insurer. That’s why if you see the same insure renewal rates in health are extremely high. We do not do any kind of porting at that level. Number two on the fresh business, I can give you exact numbers. 82% of the business that we did was from new customers new to insurance customers. They may have had a corporate policy but they did not have a retail health insurance policy.
So I think that that should give you a sense. And this number actually if anything has grown, we have less sporting now externally than we had last year.
Sarbvir Singh
Madhub, we are the, you know, I don’t want to talk like Trump, but we are, we are the beautiful solution. They’re not the problem is all I would say. But anyway, thanks, thanks, thanks for that. And you’re on the fixed cost on the indirect site. Indirect costs on the new initiative even monitored. Like it’ll be stupid not to monitor. But it’s not meaningful in any way.
Yashish Dahiya
But okay, I would say, Madhukar, there is no, we are very acutely conscious that especially in the POSP business, it is a business where costs have to be controlled. It is not a business where I think Ashish explained very well upfront that it’s a fixed business. You can only, you know, you know, do something which is what the, you have to cut the cloth to what you have. So I think over a period of time all other costs will be controlled and will come down in any given quarter. It may have been up or down depending on some investment in people, some investment, you know, that we may be doing towards something.
But it’s, it’s nothing more than that.
Madhukar Ladha
All right. And just some data keeping questions. Can you give us the renewal premium breakup of POSP, UAE and corporate?
Sarbvir Singh
Yeah, sure. POSP would be about 180 crores. UAE would be about 111 crores. And corporate is a huge 3. Two hundred and ninety two crores. That’s the beautiful part about the corporate business. And I think that’s where I’m taking a lot of heart. Over the years our renewal rates are very strong. So 292 crores of renewal. Now just to kind of put this in perspective, if you look at our total business last year, same quarter from corporate was 272 crores.
And we’ve done 292 crores of renewals. So if anything, our premium from the 272 has grown, which is a signal of how the corporate business kind of is edging and it’s largely built on renewals. Right, great.
Madhukar Ladha
Thanks for this and all the best.
Sarbvir Singh
Thank you.
operator
Thank you, Madhubas. We’ll take the last question from Prayesh. Please unmute yourself.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, yeah. Hi. So firstly on this healthcare healthcare part where you mentioned that, you know, things are in progress, but more importantly, you know, from a insurance point of view, uh, so, you know, you would, all the partners of yours would be working along with you on this or how would this kind of pan out or you’ll need a special duration with the insurance company for product or, you know, all your existing customers would get that option. How will kind of this thing move?
Yashish Dahiya
Priyash, what is our responsibility, you know, as an industry? Forget Policy Bazaar, forget insurers.
We have a certain base of customers, right? Policy Bazaar has a base of customers. There’s a base of customers in the industry. Our job is to make sure these customers have a. They have, they have paid with their trust and they’ve laid their trust in the insurance industry that. Look at the point of claim, I should have a great experience. I should, I should not. Not a great experience. Sorry, wrong word. I shouldn’t have a poor experience at the point of claim. Now for that, two things need to happen. Number one, the incidence rate needs to go down.
Now, the incidence rate is a factor of two things. One is people maybe not taking care of their health. And I would give that or not doing the right things to kind of stay out of hospital. But the second is there is a, in a fee for service model, there is an incentive towards, you know, over utilization. And I think the whole industry is coming together in working at this, some through narrow networks, some through working with their. If you look at countries like South Africa, this is the primary business they do. And that is why people like MMA discovery, etc.
Even, even Bupa does a lot of this globally. What they would do is with their cohort of customers, they would work towards improving the lifestyle of these people so they stay out of hospital in case they do need to go to hospital. They break them down into care pathways and they say, listen, you need to probably, if you have malaria, you don’t really need to be in a hospital. The chances are you will probably catch a bug in the hospital, which could be more serious for you. Maybe at home care is much better. And so you need to Invest in that and, and for that there is infrastructure that needs to be built for that.
Maybe there are daycare centers. So if you need us operation, a bulk of those should happen at daycare centers so that people can come and go back today. A 24 hour insurance, you know, thing is there that look, if you’re not hospitalized in 24 hours, pre hospitalization, post hospitalization, the coverage rates could be challenging. So the industry has to go through a transformation. To your specific question, of course every partner in the industry is doing this. There is no doubt the entire industry is moving towards a narrower network, towards a more managed care approach. We cannot have as an industry a conflict of interest with our suppliers.
Our suppliers currently have a conflict of interest. They make more money when our customers, when we lose money. Essentially as an industry, whenever we lose money, our partners make more money. So that imbalance can somewhere only be corrected if you have some active role in that. And you’ll have an active role if you’re adding value to your customers. So yes, that’s the, that’s the journey we are on. And every partner is with us in this. There is, there is no doubt about it. And we are partner in this. Like it’s not, it’s not, it’s not just us, it’s the whole industry.
Right, right, right, right. The other question was on the mutual fund piece of the business, right. You mentioned that it’s gonna be a commission led model, not the direct one. So first of all, is this a second attempt at mutual funds, if I recollect well earlier also had some mutual fund business and is this new avatar or what is it? And second, you have so many, so much competition on, on the direct side with, with these discount brokers, you know, giving all the tools for investing as well as advising. So what is the right to win that you would have to kind of, you know, grow this business? Yeah, right.
To win comes from execution. Right to win does not. You know, nobody is born with the right to win. Neither are we born with the right to win. Yes, we have some ins into the consumer and, and yes, we had a previous attempt at this about five, six years ago by the way, that did not do badly. That did, that did quite well. But there was internal conflict between management because of which that group left and that group set up a separate business. In fact, truth be told, I’m a small investor in that business. Very few things I invest in, but I’m a very small investor in that business.
So I don’t believe they’re doing a bad job. They’re doing a great job actually. Now Santosh believes in this and I also believe in this that look through the, you know, PB Money app that we have, we can get consumers and our attempt is to give up an array of offers which goes from corporate bonds to bonds to mutual funds to some of the insurance products and yes, mutual funds also. But that said, it is very, very early days for us to comment on whether we will be successful. What is our right to win? I guess those are fairly backward unless.
Unkosh you have a different answer on this?
Unidentified Participant
No, absolutely. I think the fact that, you know, mutual fund is a large part of household savings for the country today, I think that gives a, I would say a lot of confidence that we should be in this area and PV money. I think now we are far more mature as a business to be able to talk about savings as a holistic solution. And I think neutral pan sits very well as part of that solution. And I think over time I think we’ll have an answer of right to win. I don’t think we have that answer very clear upfront today, but I think there’s a play for another partner and I think if we execute well there will definitely be a business to build.
Yashish Dahiya
See as I, as I look at and and yesterday Alok and me were also discussing this. As I look out into the medium to long term I actually see Pesa Bazaar now in a position where it will become a very, very strong player. Lot of confidence I at a fundamental level and again this is something I was just talking about. Look, businesses don’t succeed or fail because they are great businesses. They succeed or fail because the people are very aligned to building them for the long term. And those people are of great quality. And I feel more confident than ever that we have that alignment and we have that team now which is directionally moving in absolutely the right direction.
Rest I could be proven wrong here. Like, you know, so far I have been proven wrong many times but you know, I don’t think often enough is all I would say Sarbish is looking around when, when, when I think that’s our bet here and let’s see, let’s see how we fare on it. It’s very early days right now and right now as far as Paisamadar is concerned, we couldn’t be in a worse position from a financials perspective but we couldn’t be in a better position from a team perspective. So I think Prasleen’s saying timeout. Just last one small question.
Allow me for that on the loan loan part.
Sarbvir Singh
Right.
operator
For the core online business, where do you see it bottoming out and when do you expect it to kind of start picking up momentum again?
Sarbvir Singh
I think quarter three is when we see things really turning. I think the first two quarters, we are taking this time to build our backend operations, build, I think product maturity, do a lot of integrations where we have a lot of digital solutions and not do lending the traditional way. And I think we’re building a beautiful solution where for every consumer who comes to our platform, what is the best chance of approval a customer has to get a loan and at the best possible rate. So that’s we’re building that solution. I think quarter three, all of this should come together and we should see healthy growth resuming from quarter three.
Unidentified Participant
Great. Thank you so much and all the rest.
operator
Thank you, pr. Thank you everyone for joining. For any residual questions, please reach out to us on investor.additionsbfintech.in have a good day. Thank you guys. Thank you very much. Thank you, everyone.