Patel Engineering Limited (NSE: PATELENG) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 13, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Harsh Patel — Moderator
Kavita Shirvaikar — Managing Director
Rahul Agarwal — Chief Financial Officer
Unidentified Speaker
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Pritesh Chheda — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Q4 and FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call of Patel Engineering Limited hosted by Share India Securities. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr Harsh Patel from Share India. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Harsh Patel — Moderator
Thank you. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of Share India Securities, I would like to welcome all the participants for quarter-four FY ’25 earnings conference call of Patel Engineering Limited. We are pleased to have with us management team represented by Managing Director, Ms Kavita; and Chief Financial Officer, Ms Mr Rahul Agarwal. We will have the opening remarks from the management, followed by Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, ma’am.
Kavita Shirvaikar — Managing Director
Thank you. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining our Q4 FY ’25 earnings call. It’s a pleasure to speak with you all here today. We have uploaded the presentation summarizing the company’s performance for Q4 FY ’25, along with the results on the stock exchange for your convenience. I hope you all have had the opportunity to review the same. I shall provide updates on both our company’s performance for the last quarter and the financial year FY ’25 and the future outlook considering the recent ongoing initiatives taken by the government. Let me briefly start with taking you through the operational highlights for this year. First, I am happy to inform that we have crossed a milestone of achieving more than INR5,000 crore revenue for FY ’25 for the first time in the history of the company. The revenue for FY ’25 is INR5093 crores, which is up by 12% as compared to INR4,544 crore in FY ’24. This is on account of exceptionally good execution across all sites, especially in Q4 FY ’25, where the revenue is INR1612 crores and further, the profit before-tax and exceptional items has increased to INR477 crores as compared to INR319 crore in the previous year. The net profit is however lower than at INR242 crore as compared to INR264 crore in FY ’24 due to exceptional item of around INR150 crore loss in current year, which is mainly due to — on account of settlement of certain claims under Viwatse Richwar scheme. I attribute this success to all stakeholders and employees of Hotel Engineering who have kept their belief in the management of the company. Just to give you all a glimpse of our operational achievements during the year. We have substantially completed the entire project of Tunnel T15 and part Tunnel T14. Successful speed trial runs have been conducted by the railways. Next, at our project site located in, the lining for HRT have been completed for 2.5 kilometers. We also completed the Bharat civil work and bridge along with the RPC friend structures of the powerhouse service base, thus bringing us closer to the project completion. At our Arun II project site in Nepal, the final breakthrough of the 9.5 meter dire HRT was completed and the heading excavation of total length of 8670 meter of HRT in the project has been completed. The lining of and the was of unit number two of the powerhouse has also been completed. At Suban Sari project side, the final concreting for powerhouse unit number four has been completed. We also commenced the turbine floor contracting for unit 5 and all civil works of the water conductor system has been carried out. Out-of-the eight units of 250 megawatt each, commissioning of three units is in final stage at Kunda storage life, we successfully achieved a breakthrough of the upper intake and headress tunnel along with completion of lining for 900 meters of the 1,200 meters. Exclamation of both the incline pressure have also been completed. At our Kiru and Hydropower project located in J&K, we have been making significant progress and completing activities are ongoing in-full screen. At our T7 project site located in and, we have successfully completed the first kilometer of overlining work-out of a total of 3 kilometers and 630 meter of lining work of the station caven of total 650 meter has been completed. We have also achieved a substantial progress at our water tunnel project located in Mumbai and District where in AMD2 project is nearing completion and PCIW and projects are in advanced-stage of construction. Similar has been case with our Song Kong project and project where execution is set full suing in Q4 FY ’25. And overall, this quarter has seen good execution and the company expects to continue the momentum going-forward. Moving on to our order book. As of, 31 March 2025, our order book stands at INR15,217 crores, excluding L1, with 66% of that coming from Hydropower, 23% from irrigation, 8% from and the remaining from other sectors. This excludes projects of around INR1,200 crores, which are L1 and projects of INR1,300 crores, which have been received recently in Q1 FY ’26. So it is 15,217 plus 2,500 which is L1 or LOI received recently. So FY ’25 order inflow was subdued due to elections. We managed to get projects worth of INR550 crores during the year. However, FY ’26 has started a positive note and we have received two projects. One, number-one, INR1,318 crore for which alloy has also been received, which is for the construction of dam located in, Maharashtra and from and the other 240 megawatt EO hydropower projects located in Sal Project from NICO for which we have been declared L1 as of now. The orders which were expected in FY ’25 have been pushed by one year. Due to this push in ordering, we expect FY ’26 revenues to remain stable and with more projects worth of INR1 lakh crore expected to be available for soon, we remain optimistic for FY ’26 order inflow and we should see better growth from FY ’27 onwards. Provided the geopolitical situation and other factors remain unchanged. Amidst the rising tensions between India and Pakistan and after the suspension of the Indus Water Treaty, the government is looking at fast-tracking the clearance of large hydropower projects. With the suspension of the treaty, the government will also look at accelerating work on existing projects and exploring ways to maximize its hydropower potential and improve the storage of water by constructing larger. The budget, which allocated INR11.21 lakh crores to infrastructure demonstrates a continuous commitment to economic advancement by the government. India’s economy is expected to expand by 6.5% in the current fiscal year, demonstrating its strength in navigating geopolitical challenges. On the hydropower front, we are set to enter an exciting phase, one which will witness rapid capacity expansion and high-value contracts coming up for BD. All combined, there is a pipeline of more than 30 gigawatts between central PSU like NHPC,, NTPC,, etc NHPC alone has hydropower projects of around 4,000 megawatts, which are in advanced-stage and currently awaiting clearances. And about another 5,500 megawatts projects which are at the survey and investigation stage. Further, SUVNL also has projects of around 7,000 megawatts, which are under survey in investigation stage. Apart from the development in the, the center is planning to invest around INR10 lakh crores for the development of national highways over just the next two years a scheme like the mission, the government has allocated around INR67,000 crores for FY ’26. Under the recent budget announced by the Maharashtra budget, there is a planned outlay of around one last INR17,000 crores to be spent on various river interlinking steels and improving the irrigation facilities at the state. In the tunneling sector, NHI has plans to construct 78 tunnels covering a distance of 285 kilometers with an outflow of INR1.1 lakh crores. For PSCs, the CA has approved the DPRs for six PSEs in FY ’25 and it is targeting to concur minimum of 13 PSCs of about 22 gigawatt during FY ’26 and is targeting an installed capacity of 50 gigawatt by 2032. We expect at least around 30,000 megawatt of PAC projects to come up for beginning in the next one to two years between public and private sector. The prospect is immense across all sectors, presenting huge opportunity for our company, all the same would be subject to competition amongst the peers. In conclusion, we remain committed to sustainable growth and creating long-term value for all stakeholders. It’s a leadership for 75 years, we are focused on executing projects with excellence and maintaining steady growth. Thank you. Thank you. And I will now hand it over to Rahul to take you through the company’s financial numbers.
Rahul Agarwal — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you, Pravita. Good evening, everyone. I will now take you through the company’s financial performance for the quarter and the full-year. On a consolidated basis, the revenues for the quarter is INR1612 crores, up by 20% year-on-year, driven by strong project execution. Operating EBITDA for the quarter is INR218 crores and the operating margin is at 13.55%. And profit-after-tax is INR32.8 crores. On a standalone basis, revenue is INR1584 crores, an increase of 26% year-on-year. Operating EBITDA is INR203 crores and with an EBITDA margin of 12.79%, profit-after-tax is INR36.6 crores. Sector-wise revenue breakup of hydro is 48%, irrigation is 37%, is 11%, roads and others are another 4%. So on a full-year basis, the revenue from operations is INR5093 crores, up by 12.09% compared to FY ’24. Operating EBITDA is INR733 crores as compared to INR690 crores. EBITDA margin is 14.4% as compared to 15.19% in FY ’24. Profit-after-tax is INR42.1 crores compared to INR264.1 crores in the previous year. On a standalone basis, revenue is INR5008 crores, up by 13.5% compared to INR4,212 crores in FY ’24. Operating EBITDA is INR691 crores, up by 11.47% year-on-year. EBITDA margin is at 13.8%. Profit-after-tax is INR259 crores compared to INR288 crores in previous year. Coming to debt. So the consolidated gross debt is INR1,600 crores compared to INR1,886 crores at the end of FY ’24. In this quarter, we have replaced some client advances of INR70 crores with bank debt. Client advances for — as of March is INR665 crores as compared to INR760 crores at the end-of-the previous year. So total debt plus advances have reduced by around INR378 crores in the year. So the debt-to-equity ratio is around 0.42 compared to 0.6 in the previous year. So in terms of breakdown of debt, the term debt out-of-the total debt is INR601 crores and working capital debt is INR1,000 crores. So in working capital days, it’s the net working capital after adjusting for stock of land arbitration awards is around 110 days. And we would also like to inform that based on the financial performance, India Ratings and the search of which group company has assigned a credit rating of A-minus to the company. That concludes the financial overview. Now we will be happy to take questions.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles the first question is from the line of from Sunidhi Securities. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, good evening. Now my question is this from to for which we have provided INR150 crore. So what is the actual amount we would have received in this financial year? And this financial year, we have received around INR350 crores from. Okay. And. And the similar kind of provision we are expecting in FY ’26 as well for this kind of settlement? The scheme was only up to this year, so that scheme is over now. We don’t see any further thing coming through this.
Kavita Shirvaikar
Okay. So no accounting treatment will happen in FY ’26 P&L from this place? No, this was exceptional one-time this year. And secondly, on employee cost, we have seen in this quarter, it has increased 30% vis-a-vis 20% in the revenue growth. So earnings and what is the — so much of spike we have seen just any specific reason? No, there is no specific reason. If you see the overall year, it is only increase of around 8%, 9%. So year-on-year basis, the number is similar. It is only some costs would have come in this quarter because of some new hiring okay. Okay. So I mean, we should take — for next year, we should take a yearly number and then take a growth, not the quarterly number as a way. Yeah, I think quarterly number can vary, you can better take a yearly number.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And also the cost — construction cost I mean gross profit has come down in this quarter. So I mean, this is also some mix or a low-margin order for execution. What is the reason for this?
Kavita Shirvaikar
See, it depends upon what type of work has been executed during the quarter. So we always say that our average margins are between 13% to 14%. Okay. So 13% to 14% kind of margin been maintain it on yearly basis. And this year, we will be growing 5% or so in FY ’26. See, right now, we are giving guidance of stable revenues because the order inflow, which has started now will start yielding the revenues from the next year onwards.
Operator
Okay. Okay. Thank you for the question. Great. Thank you. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind the participants to press star and one to ask a question. Ladies and gentlemen, the next question is from the line of Jainam Jain from ICICI Securities. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Good evening, management. Sir, my first question is which are the specific which in the hydro segment, which we are looking that will be floated in this year itself and will be closed in this year in FY ’23.
Kavita Shirvaikar
There are multiple projects, so like NHPC,, they are all coming. So this is mostly in the Northeast, J&K and region and the list of projects are there on the website, but mainly projects are like when only, Dawal,, there are many multiple of them.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And how many are we looking to add this year? And our target is to bid for around INR40 crore INR3,000 crores and our success ratio is generally between 15% to 20%.
Rahul Agarwal
Okay, so that roughly amounts to roughly INR10,000 crores, right?
Unidentified Participant
That’s my question. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pritesh Chheda from Lucky Investments. Please go-ahead.
Pritesh Chheda
Sir, from your opening commentary, I couldn’t catch one thing, sir, did you mention that there will be no-growth in FY ’26 because you couldn’t get order inflow in FY ’25?
Rahul Agarwal
So yeah, that’s correct because order inflow was subdued due to election for 2025, our order inflow was around INR500 crores, but FY ’23 started with a positive loss and we got INR2,000 crores of orders where INR1,300 crores we already got the LOA and on INR700 crores we are L1. So we are saying the considering our current order book, we expect FY ’26 there will be a stable-growth. And from FY ’27 onwards, we expect around 10% to 15% growth. FY ’23 stable-growth means basically FY ’26 should be flat revenues. That’s true. Yeah. Okay. We are giving guidance of flat revenue this year. Our endeavor to do the more, like last year also, we surpassed the expectation. Last year our target was 10% and we achieved more than 10%.
Pritesh Chheda
Okay. My second question is in the swater against. So what kind of opportunities can open up there? What kind of projects are there? And when you mention 30,000 crores, 30,000 megawatt there is obviously that’s the number which you’ve been sending for past any quarter and that doesn’t include and that’s what against concepts so what addition, what newer businesses can emerge from this opportunity investments?
Rahul Agarwal
See, basically the projects were always there. We are. What we are saying is with this Indian Water water treating being suspended, now the projects will be experient. So the project launch will be faster. Okay. The 30,000 megawatt identified projects include some of the projects of the — of that region? Yeah, correct. Okay. Okay. So it’s just that now this 30,000 megawatt can be much more faster and usable than what it was earlier. Yeah. So we expect the clearances for the part of those projects to come back.
Pritesh Chheda
Okay. On the pump storage side, if you could tell us the scope of work that we have and in the pump storage side, what is the scope of competition that we have to face because in the hydro power civil, there are limited players totaling five or six. How does it stack-up in pump?
Kavita Shirvaikar
Number-one and what is the scope of work that we have in a pump product? It’s around 30 gigawatt project was coming for building in near-future — near-future, both from private and public sector, like many private players also taken out the project Adani, JSW and all. So we are also planning for these kind of projects, which is around INR10,000 crores. So we expect around INR4,000 crores to INR5,000 crores expect in good segment or so. So it is similar to hydro, competitors are also similar to hydro. So the same in-stores there are 50,000 megawatts for bidding and in hydro also there are 50,000 megawatts for bidding right storage and you are you so you gave a 20% share. So what you? So this 30,000 megawatt of hydro means what opportunity and what sale opportunity it is, this 30,000 megawatt. So in terms of value-based hydropower civil construction work is almost INR5 crores per megawatt. And for pump storage, it is between INR3 to INR4 crores per megawatt. So basically INR30,000 to 5,000 crore and 30,000 into INR3 or 4 is about, let’s say, INR100,000 crore. Yeah, correct. So maybe for the next two years maybe two to three years. Yeah. Yeah, yes, yes, yes. And what’s your inflow target for ’26 on whatever you see. We are first targeting that INR10,000 crore order inflow.
Pritesh Chheda
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. Participants may press star and one to ask a question at this time. The next question is from the line of Rahil S from Crown Capital. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Can you hear me? Yeah. Yeah, hi. This exceptional losses that you have been booking for the past 3/4, is it likely to continue in FY ’26 as well? The ones you mentioned under some scheme. So the which was lower, so we don’t — okay. So no more. Okay. Got it. Right. And the interest cost has also been reducing. And as you mentioned that your debt has been going down. So in FY ’26 also, can we expect it to go down by another INR40 crore 50 crores, the interest cost?
Unidentified Speaker
And what will happen is we may have to take some client advances or working capital limits for the new projects which are coming in, although there will be some reductions of term debt this year. So we don’t see the overall debt going up, but then the interest cost also may remain stable. So that is due to the advances that we’ll be taking. Right. Okay. And lastly, so FY ’26 revenue is expected to be flat and will obviously try to grow more, but EBITDA margins, you said 13% to 14% is something we can maintain, right? Is there scope for improvement there? Guidance-wise, we maintain like that only because there will be lot of mix of the projects executed and also 13% to 14% is expect to say that definitely do.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay. Thank you and all the best.
Operator
Thank you thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Viraj from Monegro Assets. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, how are you? Congratulations on the financial consolidation. There has been such a big escalation in cost of materials consume and more so in cost of construction, can you comment on this?
Kavita Shirvaikar
The overall — Viraj, so overall the EBITDA margins are similar. It depends upon the mix of the work executed in the quarter, okay. So there is no major increase. This is the overall EBITDA margins is still between 30% to 14%. Okay. So you’re saying that may be a quarter-to-quarter anomaly. Yeah. So it depends upon what kind of particular work was executed in this quarter?
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. Secondly, you mentioned about this exceptional item on the Vishwas.
Kavita Shirvaikar
So you’re saying the exceptional items impairment won’t happen. Yet our arbitration awards money can come in. That has nothing to do with regards to the shop, correct? That’s correct. That’s correct.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And then you also say these are loans and advances to shop write-offs of receivables. Is that also complete? Have you written-off all the receivables or bad receivables? Or is that likely to continue? Settlement only.
Unidentified Speaker
Okay. So it’s all that amount itself. Right, right. Okay. Maximum of it is in Vivasi only. Okay. Understood. And previously, you all have guided to FY ’26 growth rate of 10% in the last call, which I specifically asked on the call. And said ’27 onwards, you will be 15%. I think now you’re talking about ’26 being flat and ’27 onwards keeping in because order intake was lower, but you already have a INR15,000 crore order book, which is already being executed. And if you have the capacity and the order book, why can you still not deliver growth in ’26? So last year our expectation was 10%, but we surpassed the expectation. So we increase — it is 13% almost. So see now we accelerated the execution of some of the projects and achieved that growth. Now considering order inflow subdued, which is INR500 crores, we are saying we will be able to maintain around INR5,000 crores also. There might be some growth, but right now we are giving the guidance of. So, what happens is, see, we have INR15,200 crore order book. And if we are doing INR5,000 crores, so it gives us a book-to-bill ratio of 3, we would have a bookill ratio of four earlier, so we have expired that. But with the existing order book, you can’t execute more than that in one year, right? Because they will be at various stages. So that’s why we are guiding that it will be kind of stable or flattish. Obviously, there will be new projects coming in. So we’ll try to kick-in as fast as possible for those projects, but conservatively we are guiding for flat today.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Understood. And lastly, any progress on the monetization of non-core parcels, including electronic city or land or electronic city, this year we did one sale. We are in discussions for various other parcels also.
Kavita Shirvaikar
Let’s hope something materializes. And the proceeds of that is going largely towards term-loan paydown, right?
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Great. Thank you very much. All the best. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Participants may press star and one now to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Yash from Cruise Capital. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, sir. My first question is, what is the potential funding requirement which you foresee given the bid pipeline?
Kavita Shirvaikar
And see generally we have to do mobilization expenses to be funded through working capital debt of client advances, which is between 5% to 10% of the project value. Got it. Okay. And what are the funding options which you would consider for any growth opportunities?. Now we are looking at client advances or the working capital. Right.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vivek Gupta from Star Investments. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Am I audible? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So firstly, congratulations on good set of numbers. I just wanted to know that like if you can provide a brief on some of the recent order wins and when they are expected to start showing up in the results going-forward, like the project — project wins from for the ADAM and the hydroelectric project from.
Kavita Shirvaikar
So dam, we have already received the LOA and we will start mobilizing — mobilizing the project. So generally a project takes around six months for mobilization post which the revenues will start?
Unidentified Participant
Okay, thank you. And the next question is like by how much amount do you intend to lower that during the current financial year? Like do you have any set of target in mind. So the term that we see going down by around INR200 crores, but then working capital debt may go up. So overall, we don’t see the debt going up to a very large extent.
Operator
Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one now. The next question is from the line of Sonali Jain from SJ Investments. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Am I audible to you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I have few questions for you. The first question is like where do you foresee finance cost on an absolute basis like over the next couple of years for finance cost we are looking at being flat this year. So next year, we will be able to give more guidance maybe after one or two quarters depending upon what order inflow we are getting and how we are funding that? Okay. And my second question would be like what is the bid pipeline? And are you expecting to benefit from any hydro-related projects from the suspension of in this water treaties?
Unidentified Speaker
The bid pipeline is large. So we are looking at least bidding of around INR40,000 crore INR50,000 crores this year. And so with the suspension of the end of water 3D, we expect that the projects which were expected to come up in that season will be expedited. Okay, okay. So like also given the recent volatile situation, as you know, on the borders, especially in the northern region of the India, so are you witnessing any challenges with respect to labor availability for the project execution? So see there, if it elongate for a longer period, then you, you will get some impact thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Before we take the next question, participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one at this moment. The next question is from the line of Rajeev Rupani, an Individual investor. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yes, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I had a follow-up question on the land-bank. So we have land-bank in Bangalore,, Telangan and Tamiladu. So could you just give an update? What is the timeline to monetize the whole land-bank, one year, two years, three years because we are selling the land-bank in small parts. So what is the timeline to completely disposal of all the land banks?
Kavita Shirvaikar
So there are — out of all the land banks, we are identifying few land parcels which we want to sell first, which we will target to sell-in the next two, three years. Okay. So basically you only part of the land-bank will be sold-in the next two years, not completely, not completely correct. Any particular region? Yes. So they are targeting the land-bank, which we see that can be sold immediately. There are few land parcels like Naga Patnam, which we see that the value will be enhanced if we wait for a couple of years considering the development in that region around. Okay. So what would be the total value of the land-bank as of today? It is between INR800 crores INR1,000 crores.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. And sir, I have a follow-up question on the pending arbitration claims. Last con-call you had talked about INR3,000 crore and the percentage in favor of companies INR800 crores. So could you give an update on that?
Kavita Shirvaikar
Yeah. So there is no change on that. So we have around INR750 crores of awarded claims and another INR2,250 crores which are under arbitration getting into arbitration overall INR3,000 and when do we expect to receive the same, which are in our favor. So the ones which are in our favor, it has challenged by the clients at various ports. So we see every year something or the others keep coming in from there. So that’s why we have kept a target of non-core assets with — between land-bank and Navor, we get around INR200 crores year-on-year. Okay. I had one more question. Are we bidding for hydra projects in Bhutan or not — we have not bidded yet. We may look into it. Okay.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And my last question is, 89% of the promoters holding its fledged. So when does this reduce or go to now once the results are out, maybe this quarter or after 1/4, we’ll start talking to the lenders.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind the participants to press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of and retail investor. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you for taking my question. My two questions are: one, what is the capacity to execute order in the peak of our order book to be envisage whether because in the beginning and all along you maintain rightly so that the opportunity size is so big and we’ve been the leader in many, many areas. So the day is not very far when your order book would swell, whether we have the capacity to execute, twice the current turnover or your view on that? First. Second is, now say scheme being over. So the obligation award, which is pending or which has been awarded, do we have any sense whether or how long will it take for us realistically to receive order because you would have a fair sense, if it is with a public sector or some not litigant entities, we may get it earlier, even without the Sevichwar that screen. So your comment on that.
Kavita Shirvaikar
These two, the capacity and the arbitration awards are in your view, what is the likelihood of that I’ll tell about capacity. See, we have almost 4,500 employees today, which were at 1,500 five years back and we have a gross block of around INR1,100 crores. So capacity building keeps happening slowly. I cannot say that next year only we can double the revenue or something like that. So it will happen slowly. And it is not like a factory where there is installed capacity, you cannot increase and all that. So each project is a different setup altogether. So as and when you receive projects, you will hire more people, take more equipment and increase the capacity. So capacity building is not an issue. Pre-qualification wise, we have pre-qualification to bid for n number of projects. So that is also another problem. Coming to claim realizations. So see, Vivasa scheme was one-time this year we realized monies. Otherwise, the expect money can be realized to courts or to submit against bank guarantees also. So those type of schemes are still there. So we’ll keep evaluating and exploring whatever options are available and what could be the best way to realized so do we have any timeline for some of these awards coming our way? That is my estimate, right? So timeline what we see is that INR200 crores is something what we should target every year to get money and the capacity I merely ask because in case is so much of order book which can possibly come our way not in the distant future, are we ready to execute them? That is a limited question. So our base is strong. See, as we mentioned that our employee base is 4,500 and our equipment base is also strong. Based on the project recess, we can increase the team and increase the capacity for execution.
Unidentified Participant
Great to hear that. Yeah. That’s my questions.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajiv Rupani, an Individual investor. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yes, sir. I had a question on the orders on the tunneling side. So in the last one and a half year, we have not received any orders on that. So any update by when can we expect big orders on the tunnels the tunneling also a lot of projects are expected.
Kavita Shirvaikar
We will keep bidding and we will take projects when we’ll be able to achieve our required margins. We evaluate each and every project separately and based on the viability of the project, we decide for bidding. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Participants may press star and one to ask a question now. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Agarwal from SKS Secur Associates. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. My first question to you is, what is the reason for this significant decline in margins of Q4 FY ’25? So there is no specific reason. It depends upon the work executed during the quarter. Okay. So overall, it is between 13% to 14%. Okay. Only because of the exceptional losses. Otherwise the profit before-tax and exceptional is higher. Okay. All right. My second question is, how do you see the construction costs shaping up over the next few quarters or years, do you foresee a higher-cost kind that continue to impact the margins? So on an average, we expect our EBITDA to remain in 13% to 14% range, 13% to 14%. So because pass-through, there is a — there is an escalation of cost that is a pass-through for us. So that is why we don’t see that the impact will come on us.
Operator
Okay. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. To ask a question, please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Viraj Mahavia from Money Grow Asset. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, sorry, I think we’ve been mentioning a consistent margin guidance of 14-odd percent, but should not operating leverage could prove in the years ahead, particularly FY ’27 onwards when we grow at a much higher revenue on a similar cost base,
Rahul Agarwal
So, what happens is when we have to increase the revenues, the employee base, the equipment base, everything has to grow. So that’s why we say that the margins will remain in that. Obviously, we lose — if we are able to do some value analysis and raise some costs that can be better, but as guidance, we will still maintain 13% to 14%.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Mr Rahul Agarwal for closing comments.
Rahul Agarwal
Thank you. Thank you all for attending this conference call. If any further questions are there, you can directly write to us or our IR agency, which is Ovient Capital. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. On behalf of Patel Engineering, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.