P N Gadgil Jewellers Ltd (NSE: PNGJL) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 16, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Saurabh Gadgil — Chairman and Managing Director
Kiran Firodiya — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Naveen Trivedi — Analyst
Ashish Kumar — Analyst
Deepak Lalwani — Analyst
Arpit Shah — Analyst
Kumanika — Analyst
Gaurav Nigam — Analyst
Sonal Minhas — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, Good day and welcome to Pngadgill Jewellers Limited Q4FY25 earning conference call hosted by Motilal Oswal Financial Services Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Naveen Trivedi. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Naveen Trivedi — Analyst
Yeah. Good afternoon everyone. On behalf of Motila Oswal, I am Naveen Trivedi would like to welcome you all to the PN Gargil Jewelers URQFY25 earnings conference call. From the management today we have Mr. Sourab Gargil, Chairman and Managing Director Mr. Kiran Ferotia, Executive Director and CFO. I will now hand over the call to the management for the opening remarks. Over to you, Saurav.
Saurabh Gadgil — Chairman and Managing Director
Thank you, Naveen. Good evening everyone and thank you for joining us today for the PNGargay Jewelers Q4FY25 earnings call. I hope all of you have got an opportunity to go through our financial results, our press release and investor presentations which are already uploaded on the stock exchanges.
FY25 has been a landmark year for PNG dwellers. A year where we not only delivered strong growth but also reinforced our resilience and adaptability in a volatile gold price environment. For the full year, our revenue for operations grew by 25.9% year over year to 7693 crores. Our EBITDA rose 33.2% to 371 crores and PAT increased by 40.7% to 218 crores translating up to a PAT margin of 2.8%. We also improved our profitability across matrix with EBITDA margin expanding by 20bps and pad margin expanding by 30bps.
For Q4.25 especially, our revenue from operation grew by 5% year over year to 1588 crores. And we saw 21% year over year growth in gross profit with gross margin improving 12%. EBITDA grew by 19.7% year over year to 109 crores. Despite record gold prices, we managed to grow Our PAT by 12.9% year over year achieving the margin expansion and operational efficiency. This performance was largely driven by a strong execution strategy, continued demand during the festive season and wedding season and an uptick in consumer sentiment. And our ongoing efforts to enhance our product portfolio. For FY25, our revenue per store stands at 145 crores while net profit per store reached almost 4.11 crores. Demonstrating operational efficiency and profitability, our same store growth HSG stood strong at 26.5% and that keeps the strong momentum going for Q4 FY25. The retail segment which contributes 81.5% of our total sales, continues to lead our business, delivering around 50% year over year revenue growth, an EBITDA margin of 7.9% and a PAT margin of 4.2%.
Beyond retail, we witnessed exceptional growth in our E Com and franchisee segments Also our E. Com revenue surged massively by 243% to 90 crores and franchisee revenue rose by 37.2% to 185 crores in Q4. This robust growth across all segments reinforces our strategic direction and positions us well for sustained momentum in the coming quarters. Our customer engagement remains very strong with transaction volumes rising by 40.3% and the average transaction value ATV was at 77,000 rupees. Moreover, we recorded a 37.8% increase in footfall supported by a very strong conversion rate of 92.3% reflecting increased consumer demand and sustained purchasing behavior at our stores. Despite the high gold prices.
Festive sales continue to be a strong driver for our performances this quarter. We achieved a record of 123.5 crore sales on the auspicious day of Gudipadwa marking a 40.4% increase year over year. Despite over 30% increase in gold prices, our overall volumes are still higher than the same period last year, underscoring sustained and resilient consumer demand across product categories at the industry level. While such high price inflation often deters discretionary spending, the Indian consumer cultural affinity for gold has once again stood strong. Rather than stepping away, consumers adopted recalibrated budgets, shifting toward lightweight jewelry, embracing lower carat options like 18 and 14 carat. There’s a visible shift in lightweight jewelry, especially among the younger population. More importantly, they continue to prioritize festive and weddings occasions, reaffirming gold place as a traditional asset and a meaningful purchase.
Additionally, we observe a 30.8% YoY increase in studded portion which now stands at 8%. This uptick highlights the growing popularity of stud based jewellery aligning with with evolving customer preferences. In Q4FY25, we strengthened our presence across Maharashtra with the launch of five new stores, four company owned and one franchisee located in Lakshmi Road, Chinchwar, Satara, Solapur and Talegaon.
We also inaugurated our new operational head office in Mumbai, further strengthening our backend operations and. Supporting our next phase of growth as we close FY25. We are proud of our performances across all segments and remain committed to delivering sustainable growth, margin expansion and enhanced shareholder value in the years ahead.
With this now I would like to invite our CFO Kiran Ferodhia to further give deeper insight into the financial performances. Thank you. Over to you Kiran.
Kiran Firodiya — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you Saurabh. Good evening everyone. Let me take you through the financial performance of the company for the full financial year 2025 we reported consolidated revenue from operation which is INR76,935 million reflecting almost 26% year on year growth. We achieve an EBITDA of INR3709.54 million making 33.2% growth year on year with EBITDA margin of 4.8% that is up by 20bps year on year. Consolidated PATs come at in rupees INR2182.68 million representing a 40.7% year on year growth with a PAT margin of 2.8%, a 30bps increase year on year.
Now I would like to come for a quarter ended financials. For quarter ended 31st March 2025 we reported consolidated revenue from operations of INR15882.24 million which is reflecting 5% year on year growth. We achieve an EBITDA of INR1090.43 million marking a 19.7% growth year on year with EBITDA margin of 6.9% up by 90bps year on year. Consolidated PAT came at INR619.9 million representing 12.9% year on year growth with a PAT margin of 3.9% per 30bps increase year on year. We have achieved robust performance across all key business segments demonstrating the strength of our core business model.
The retail segment delivered almost 50.1% growth in Q4 itself in financial year 24 generating INR12,933 million in revenue. The E Commerce. As Saurav mentioned that segment demonstrated a massive growth of 243.7% generating INR907 million. Lastly, the franchisee segment recorded a growth of 37.2% contributing INR18.52 million to a top line. Our inventory turnover ratio stood at 5.2 times in financial year 25, among the best in the industry driven by our efficient order to make model.
At the time of our IPO. We are committed to launch 12 new stores by financial year 26. However. By end of financial year 25 itself, we have already surpassed that outlook by opening 17 stores, making a growth of over 47% in our store count. Driven by strong consumer demand and in alignment with our strategic expansion plan, all new stores launched in quarter three of financial year 25 are performing exceptionally well and have already turned operationally profitable reflecting both robust market demand and and strong store level execution.
Quarter one of financial year 25 has already commenced on a very strong positive note, supported by a positive impact of Akshay Trithya and an extended wedding season. Looking ahead to financial year 26, we plan to launch an additional 2025 store. With this aggressive expansion and ongoing margin improvement strategy, we are well positioned for our next phase of accelerated growth.
With this, I now open the floor for question and answer. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press and one on the touchdown telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Ashish Kumar from Ampersand Capital Investment Advisors. Please go ahead.
Ashish Kumar
Yeah, thanks for taking my question. My first question is on the margins. If you remove the other income the margins are flat yoy at the same time our this bullion business has like from 30% last year around 32% has become negligible but still our margins are like flat on y o basis. So if you can give some color on that and how we should look at it going forward. My second question is on the QIP though it has been deferred for now. So what was the thought process going into that like decision and like why have we deferred it? Those are my two questions.
Kiran Firodiya
Yeah, thank you for your question. First of all I would like to give some, you know throw some light on the revenue split last year financial Last financial year we have shown our revenue in two segments, retail and non retail. So retail which is you know sale across the store and Non retail is B2B which includes refinery sale. So now that refinery sale we have completely abolished because you know that refinery sale is not contributing any margin. And if you see the performance due to which this year my shift in the business from non retail to retail and retail counter increased by almost 50% for this quarter. So that is the reason if you see my total sale grow by 50% but if you see my EBITDA margin that has grown by 33.2% and PAT margin also improve. Why? Because our studied portion increase, our jewelry component increase and our entire product mix also work very well in our favor. So just we have abolished that non retail portion which is refinery sale. You know, that is effectively that decision has, you know come in our favor. And that is the reason the margin have improved. So that is number one.
Number two, with respect to qip, yes, we are. We have still time to go for completing that below 75% mark by September 2027. But still we are hopeful that in next board meeting we can again rethink of going ahead with starting the procedure for QIP this quarter. We are just discussed that possibility. But basis on the discussion, that decision we have just postponed for one more quarter.
Ashish Kumar
Okay, just on the margin thing, like I also had asked about how should we think about going forward now that this Boolean is not there. So if you can give some guidance.
Kiran Firodiya
Yeah. So now if you see my retail component, retail component have grew almost. If I. If I have to talk about year on year basis, then my retail component have grown by almost reach to 70% which earlier year it was 60%. So the moment I am increasing my retail portion, my bottom line is straight way increasing to that extent. So we are now keen on increasing our retail portion. Because we are adding 17 store this year. 16, our own company store one is the franchisee. And next year also we are planning to increase the same store count probably slightly two to four store extra. So that margin will not affect at the same time next year we will definitely see that those stores which we open this year and earlier year will be getting more mature and they will start contributing to the bottom line as well. So next year margin, as far as next year margin is concerned, we are very much positive that you will see drastic improvement in the EBITDA level as well as PAT level.
Ashish Kumar
Just one last thing. This Boolean was there for the first half of FY25, right in our revenue base. So for next two quarters also we should expect like what kind of sales growth?
Kiran Firodiya
No, in terms of bullion, which is purely refinery sale. That is that we have to do because of the compliance requirement that has been completely sorted out. So the 1st of October 2024, that refinery sale which is no margin business has totally stopped. That is the reason now there is improvement in the margin and going forward that business will not be there. And we are only doing retail sale, franchisee and E commerce. That is non retail sale. So there are only two component, retail and non retail.
Ashish Kumar
But consolidated sales will.
Saurabh Gadgil
Hello? We can’t hear you.
Operator
Sorry to interrupt. Mr. Ashish, I would request you to move a bit closer to your phone and speak.
Ashish Kumar
Yeah, I’m just saying that the that will be there in the first half base. So the consolidated sales will be still muted for the first half, right?
Kiran Firodiya
Correct. Next year.
Ashish Kumar
Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. That’s all from my side.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepak Lalwani from Unified Capital. Please go ahead.
Deepak Lalwani
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity and congrats on a good set of numbers on an annual basis. Sir, first question, the guidance that you gave for 2025 stores, can you split that into cocoa and franchisee stores? Secondly, what will be the timeline of these stores? Like which quarters should we expect these stores to come through and the location for this? I understand there’s an element of non Maharashtra as well. So which geographies are we thinking of? And you can just give an idea of when these stores will come through. Thanks.
Saurabh Gadgil
Thank you, Deepak. So like we mentioned right now we’d be looking at adding around 22 to 25 stores next year. I mean in FY26 this will be a split of P and G full fledged stores and our lightweight model, the light style stores. So around 12 to 13 would be PNG full fledged stores. And balance 12 to 13 would be light style stores. So the light style stores would be smaller in format, around,500 to 2,000 square feet. They would be having lightweight jewelry primarily maybe 14 karat, also 18 karat. And catering to the Gen Z, catering to fun buying, impulse buying. So again out of the 2526 stores, half will be targeting 50% to be franchisee and 50% company owned. The geography as you said would be some pockets of Maharashtra which we have still not targeted like places like west Maharashtra, Kolhapur, places like Khandesh region, Jalgaon, the flagship in Dadar. And along with that we also would be moving into neighboring states of UP and possibly Bihar also if work out favorably. So that is the geographic spread out.
In terms of the timing. Q1 would primarily be focusing only on the light style stores. So the plan is to add two to three Lightstyle stores in Q1. Q2 would be a lot of majority of the stores. So around six to seven stores of PNG would be started in Q2. Q2 will also be the time when we expand in Uttar Pradesh also the Bombay flagship store will happen in Q2 and then Q3 and Q4. Will again be a spread of, you know, four, five stores in each quarter. So all in all we’re looking at adding on 25 to 26 stores with a split of PNG and light style by P and G.
Deepak Lalwani
Yes, that’s pretty clear. And so by the end of next year if we are at 70 to 75 stores, assuming we add 20 stores how many would be X of Maharashtra and what
Saurabh Gadgil
Maharashtra the target would be to be, you know the three stores in Goa and five to six stores in UP and possibly Bihar. So maybe a 10 store outside Maharashtra.
Deepak Lalwani
And the thinking for FY27 should be at a similar run rate that we do. 20 stores and out of that five outside Maharashtra.
Saurabh Gadgil
Yeah, I think it should be on similar lines. It also depends upon, you know if we are looking at a dilution further in that year that will again lead to some, you know, fundraising which are going to be deployed back for expansion. So primarily but on our own this would be what we were looking at.
Deepak Lalwani
And on the dilution part, while this is not decided by the board, any range that we should keep in mind, any amount that we should keep in mind for dilution that you’re looking at.
Saurabh Gadgil
The percentage, what we have to reach is 75 right now that we are at 83.11. So that is the only criteria. We haven’t really thought any on the valuation side of it. Right. So it’s too early to comment on that.
Deepak Lalwani
Got it. So few and one question I had on those current months. You mentioned that the sentiment has been good. So should we expect does that mean any volume decline in April and May that we have witnessed or it is fat volume flat to single digit volume growth in these two.
Saurabh Gadgil
We are expecting volume digit growth to be in single digits only because of the high prices. What we have seen is that value wise the growth will be plus or 20% just to substantially. Akshatrithya, we did a sale of almost 170 crore on a single day which was a all time high in the history of the company. So value wise there is a lot of expansion. Volume wise but we are seeing that it will be single digit. But we do not see any degrowth happening also in terms of volumes.
Deepak Lalwani
Okay, so last question on your. This is on the number. So basically in this quarter did we have any inventory gains from the gold in the gross margin and secondly the run rate for other income, depreciation and interest. So if you can give light on these three aspects because it has been slightly volatile on a quarterly basis. So what.Should one assume for 26 if you can annualize this or any sense on that?
Kiran Firodiya
Yeah. So there is, you know, as we have mentioned in our Q3 earning call as well as this earning call also there is no inventory gain we have recorded because we are doing 100% effective hedging. In fact, due to price hike and doing the hedging we have to take the M2M hit of almost 55 crore. So there is no inventory gain which is carried for this financial year with respect to the pad. Now with respect to other income, yes, we have done substantive fixed deposit and that interest part is coming in my other income which is related to my operations because we are keeping the fixed deposit and that same fixed deposit we are utilizing for gold metal loan. So that gold metal loan carries around 3 to 3.5% cost. So nullifying that way we are on a positive side.
Deepak Lalwani
And should we assume the same run rate, annualize this run rate for 26 and work with that number for all three metrics?
Kiran Firodiya
Yeah, of course. In fact you will see a slight improvement only because the stores as I mentioned, they will get matured next financial year. And we are also hopeful that market condition will also improve and that will affect the bottom line as well.
Saurabh Gadgil
Deepak, you have to also understand that this time we had launched the nine day nine stores just before Diwali. So those stores have not even finished a year. So all that, you know, the benefit will all be seen in the coming year. So like Kiran mentioned, we should see an uptick in margins both on EBITDA level, PAT level and due to the studied ratio also being constantly increasing. Even that should have positive impact on margins also. T
Deepak Lalwani
Thank you. Thank you so much. Understood. Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Arpit Shah from Stallion Asset. Please go ahead.
Arpit Shah
Hello.
Saurabh Gadgil
Yeah. Hello.
Arpit Shah
Hello. Yeah, I just wanted to. Congratulations. Great sort of number. Really superb growth on the retail front of 50%. I just wanted to understand like even this year FY26, we’re expanding our stores by another 50% in terms of your store count going from 53 to let’s almost 75. What kind of growth we should look at in FY26? Because we are on already like we have done recently well in retail in FY25. But what kind of growth we should look at in FY26 since our store expansion? About 50%. And what the new stores which we open in Q3 also needs some sic growth which will kick in. So what kind of growth you are looking at?
Kiran Firodiya
Yeah, good question. So this year. If you see year on year, that is with respect to entire 12 month, we have demonstrated almost 26% growth in the top line and we are hoping. Hopeful that next year also with the plan in hand if we able to successfully execute. We are already doing. We have already started working on that. Definitely you will see the result on quarter, on quarter basis our performance. But we have kept the target to keep the same momentum ahead. So next year also you can expect 25 to 30% growth in the top line. With the volume wise minimum you can say that 8 to 11% volume growth also we are targeting.
Arpit Shah
But if we see a retail growth in the quarter four where you’ve grown about 50% in terms of revenue and probably the retail growth. Wouldn’t that be higher number than 25 30%.
Kiran Firodiya
Yeah definitely. Because you know if you see the retail growth which we have demonstrated as compared to last year. Last year we have our retail portion is around 60%. And this year my total contribution of retail is. Is reached to almost 71%. Because we have completely reduced that non retail portion refinery. That refinery sale. Now we are strictly focusing on our retail expansion. This year we have added 16 company stores and one franchisee. And next year also as Saurabh mentioned that 2025 stores we are added to retail kitty. So definitely there will be that retail contribution. In total revenue we are expecting to reach to around 75 to 80%.
Saurabh Gadgil
Just to add to Kiran. What is happening is that because we are not doing the B2B refinery sale. So that was considered in the in the first six months of this financial year. So that will be completely zero in the in FY26. Considering that also we are saying that we should be looking at a top line growth of around 30%.
Arpit Shah
If you can just spell out the retail numbers for FY25. What has been the total number for retail in FY25
Kiran Firodiya
For this financial. You are talking?
Arpit Shah
Yes.
Kiran Firodiya
So this financial year my total revenue is 7627 crore. Out of which retail is 5327 crore. And non retail is 2301 crore.
Arpit Shah
Non detail is 2000. Sorry
Kiran Firodiya
2301.
Saurabh Gadgil
So non retail has three portions. Franchisee, Ecom and B2B sales.
Arpit Shah
Okay, okay, okay. So some of that would come back
Saurabh Gadgil
The B2B sale will completely zero. Franchisee will. Will. Will. Will keep on showing healthy growth of 100 plus percent. Franchisee division will be also we showing healthy growth. We’re looking around 35 40%. And so will will be the growth from the retail operations at PNG level.
Arpit Shah
If you can just spell out the refinery part in the non detail. You’ve mentioned franchisee ecom and non and the refinery. What would you say? Refinery part.
Kiran Firodiya
There will be no refinery sale now. Going forward.
Arpit Shah
No. In FY25. It was, you know, more than thousand crores, around 1100 crores was what was the refinery portion of it. So that is it. That. So if you come to exact refinery sale numbers, there were 1200 crores in FY24, 700 crores in FY25, which will now be zero in FY26. Fair enough. Now since you’re moving to almost 100% retail, e commerce is also like D2C for us. What kind of margins are we looking at? Because we’re going to see an increase in franchisee business in FY26 like from the stores that you’re going to open, half are going to be franchisee. So what kind of EBITDA margins we should be looking at?
Kiran Firodiya
See with respect to retail portion or as far as company portion, company level portion, that retail portion we are always targeting to reach in between 7 to 8% EBITDA margin with the growth of 30, 35% in the top line only retail portion. And as far as bat level is concerned for retail, it is definitely in the range of 4%. And company level we are targeting to reach in between 2.75 to 3.25.
Arpit Shah
Got it. But the share of franchisee is quite small. Right? Where the dilution then coming from? Because if the retail is 4% and franchise since it’s a very small share, why the dilution is about let’s say about 1, 1.2% in as a, as a whole. As a.
Saurabh Gadgil
In retail we’re targeting on 3.25% PAT in as a company level. So that the 0.75 which you’re seeing is going to be primarily E Com and franchisee which would be a little lower. Also considering the expansion which we’re doing this year, the cost overhead which will be, which will be incurred due to expansion will also have some impact. So that is why we’re saying at a level, at a conjoy level we should be looking at around 3.25% PAT for the upcoming year. So broadly, 320 to 350 crores would be a fair assumption.
Arpit Shah
Fair assumption. Yeah. Okay. Okay, thank you. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kumanika from some extra capital. Please go ahead.
Kumanika
Hello?
Saurabh Gadgil
Yeah, hello.
Kumanika
Yeah, so thank you for taking my question. So my first question pertains to the high inventory turnover ratio. So like in your previous call and even in your opening remark you did mention about like the 30 to 40% of the total revenue comes from mix to order. But even if I do the best calculation. From these numbers, the inventory turnover should be around like 5x, but the FY20 point turnover was like 6.5. So I wanted to understand, am I missing anything else like in the calculation? Hello?
Saurabh Gadgil
Hello? Yeah, repeat again please.
Kumanika
Yes sir. I was asking about the reason for the higher inventory. Hello?
Saurabh Gadgil
Hello?
Kumanika
Hello? Am I audible now?
Saurabh Gadgil
Yeah,
Kumanika
Yeah. So my question was on the high inventory turnover ratio. So like you did mention in your previous phone calls and even in your opening remarks that due to like a high make to order customers like 30 to 40% revenue come from the make to order. And because of that your inventory turnover is high. So if I do the back calculation by taking like 30 to 40% of the revenue as zero inventory days, still the inventory turnover should not be like more than 5x. But for FY24 the inventory turnover was like 6.5x. So am I missing something else like.
Kiran Firodiya
Yeah, no. Here the basic assumption of the Stockton is that, you know, in Last financial year 23 it is 6.9. Financial year 24 it was 7.9. And financial year 25 we have posted 5.2 Stockton. So whenever we are doing the order based business, so that is the main reason that the inventory gets turned on a higher side. Plus at the same time, considering the Akshay truthia, considering the goody Padwa, considering the main festive season, we have also demonstrated that the high level of inventory which is, you know, make to order as well as, you know, across the counter sale has also been increased. At the same time the studied portion has also shown a drastic growth. So consolidating everything that Stockton has improved on a higher side. But as compared to last two years, which is 6.9 and 7.9, this year we have demonstrated slightly lower which is 5.2 as compared to other two. So you are right that there is investment in all 17 stores. So now these stores will definitely come as far as breakeven is concerned in next probably six to eight months. Because six to seven months they have already completed. And as per the metrics of the operational metrics, it will require 15 to 18 months to reach break even. That is the reason there is a dip in the stock turn. But eventually as compared to the peers, that stock turn is also very. We are keeping the same that, you know, five plus across the company level.
Kumanika
Okay, so like for example, if I remove the 30 to 40% of the revenue that is made to order and for the 60% of revenue, what is the inventory turnover for those revenue and on the company level as well?
Kiran Firodiya
Yeah, no. What happened? You know, the thing is, whenever we are doing the order based business, that particular product which we are in the store, that is continuously moving and that is the reason that Stockton has increased so at the same time, you know, we have to ensure that that inventory has to replenish on regular basis. Okay, so next my question was on the surd ratio. So you in previous con call you said like you want to improve the surd ratio, right? But if I even look at the regular football like the repeat footfall is also like really good like 23% Kega in last two years. So in order to improve the surge ratio you also need to like change the taste of the your regular customer. So how difficult or easy would might be for you to change the taste of the existing customer?
Saurabh Gadgil
It’s not matter of difficult or easy. It’s a journey which we have started a year ago. We focus a lot on designing diamonds which were higher in the value of chain. Primarily necklaces in the range of plus of 20 lakhs. Bangles. We moved into Polki and the Kundan category. We introduced color stones, jewelry color stones as auspicious stones. All this is bearing fruit. People are moving into a category. The base which was 05 years ago today is a base which is more than 500 crores. So there has been sustained growth in this category and we are moving in the right direction. You will keep on seeing high growth in the studded category. Because the base is small for us and the market is big. So we are confident that this is one category where we would be seeing growth. Even if gold prices continue to remain high. And the interest of people in natural diamond, the interest in colorstone jewelry Polki is continued to be seen strong. And especially also in the state of Maharashtra which was not a very studded friendly state. We are seeing people taste changing. Even wedding shopping is happening on studded. So we are confident that the move in the studded jewelry growth is going in the right direction.
Kumanika
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Of course. Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Gaurav Nigam from Tunga Investments. Please go ahead.
Gaurav Nigam
Yeah. Thank you sir for taking my question. The first question was as I understand in the investor presentation I specified the FSG for FY24 stores was close to 26% in FY25. I just wanted to understand, sir, what was the inventory terms and EBITDA generated by these stores in FY24 stores for the year FY25 inventory turns and EBITDA.
Kiran Firodiya
Yeah. So hi. So if I have to give you SSHG for 24 stores only. Because in March 24th we have 24 store. And if I have to give you exactly same store sales growth then there is value growth of almost 27% in top line and the volume growth is only 3.5%.
Gaurav Nigam
Got.And what about the EBITDA generated by these stores? I’m just trying to understand in the overall EBITDA that we generated in FY25 how much was contributed by these older stores and how much was from the new stores.
Kiran Firodiya
Okay, so now the older store they have, they have. So older store is before IPO, they have generated EBITDA of 6.41. And the new store they have generated the EBITDA of 8.48. Because if I have to give you the breakup of 40 stores then 27 stores which we have opened before IPO, they have generated 6.41 EBITDA. And the stores which you have opened after IPO, 13 store, they have generated 8.48 EBITDA at retail level.
Gaurav Nigam
Sir, something I am missing. Newer stores should be lesser profitable, right?
Kiran Firodiya
No, no, no. The thing is, you know what happened. The newer store since they opened before Diwali has shown the demonstrated a high am revenue as compared to the operational expenses. They are proportionately very limited to only six months. Older stores are generating 6.41 percentage of EBITDA or FY25. Older stores have completed 12 months and the newer store, they have just completed six months. So they have high revenue. But as compared to that operational expenses they have only proportionate.
Gaurav Nigam
So the 13 new stores are generating 8.48 percentage of EBITDA.
Kiran Firodiya
Correct? Correct.
Saurabh Gadgil
See the key type take away from this is that the new store which we had started, all the stores have been doing exceptionally well. And that is that has what has really helped us to, you know, keep the profitability high and to achieve the numbers. So that’s a positive sign that whatever survey we like we had spoken, we do store after doing market survey. Right location that has really taken place this year. We have added almost 800 new employees. Training, getting them on job and ensuring that the store experience is same at all the stores and continues to give higher rise in sales is what is being seen. So that’s a very important takeaway from the new store, the growth story.
Gaurav Nigam
Just one clarification. If the newer stores are performing much better than the older one, why is there, if you, if you remove the other income, the BITA growth is only 6%. Right. Ideally this number should have been much higher in Q4. I mean any. Anything I’m missing?
Kiran Firodiya
No, no. I am talking about entire year considering YTD year on year. This is not only a quarterly update.
Gaurav Nigam
Okay, okay, understood.
Kiran Firodiya
If you are asking me on only quarter four, then quarter four. EBITDA of this 13 store is 10.61 versus the old store is only 7 point. Is it? Are you like proportionating the like the non store expenses? More like. More towards the older stores. Is that the reason why this is difference is very sharp. You are right.
Saurabh Gadgil
The new stores are only six months old. So a lot of corporate cost which were are also proportionately only loaded to those stores. And that’s why like Kiran mentioned that the majority of costs are loaded back to the older stores.
Gaurav Nigam
Fair enough sir. Understood. Understood. And sir, my second question was if I look at the like the your new initiatives. You’re talking about two new initiatives which is the opening store in non Maharashtra market and then the light style jewelry. I just wanted to understand since these are newer initiatives for which I mean company also is experimenting on these because we don’t know these newer geographies and the lifestyle jewelry. How is the management thinking about the capital allocation towards these new initiatives?
Saurabh Gadgil
See from the point of view of expansion outside Maharashtra UP and maybe the state of Bihar, the company already taken a lot of initiatives there. Doing market surveys, holding some on ground events, exhibitions, understanding the taste. So all that has already been started. Getting the brand familiarized there, connecting with brands of friends so that all movement is already there. So when we look at the store launches in the latter part of Q2 we should be well geared up for the launch in those states. As far as light style is concerned, Lightstyle by P and G is going to be a format where in the store capex investment including the stock and the capex would not exceed 8,9 crores. So this is all going to be funded through company approvals, internal accruals. And these formats are primarily going to be in high streets or in malls. Where we’ll be looking at a differential experience in jewelry buying in jewelry designs in the way we transact targeting a lot of younger customer there design savvy customers. And this is going to be jewelry which is differentiated not seen at the P and G stores. Jewelry which is aspirational, design oriented but low on the pocket. So the tagline is though it’s light, it’s serious fashion. So it’ll be very high on the fashion side but light on the pocket. So we felt that there’s a big need for lightweight jewelry. Especially looking at the high prices and looking at the taste of today’s younger generation. Plus both light style will also be completely online on the online model which will also help us to achieve revenue from people who prefer for the online mode. Both are majority of us for expansion would be funded through internal accruals. And the balance expansion would be by the franchisee route.
Gaurav Nigam
Got it. And, sir, what are the matrices that you would. Looking for before deploying further capital in both UP initiative and the Lightstyle initiative.
Saurabh Gadgil
Sir, see, UP again is a strategy expansion for us. So we’ll be looking at the same metrics like we do for any other store. Getting the inventory right, looking at the store experience. And our typical break even here is around 15 to 18 months outside the state. We could be looking at a little higher break even. So 18 to 24 months is what we are. The matrix is what we have in mind. Investment wise we should be looking at the same set of investment like we do in light style is going to be a lighter format model. A sub 10 crore investment. And the break even there would be higher because margins would be a little higher in the Lightstyle model. So that will help us to break even maybe, you know, in 12 to 15 months.
Gaurav Nigam
Got it. Sir, if I may ask one more question. Sir, if I.
Operator
Sorry to interrupt. Maybe. Mr. Gaurav, may we request that you return to the question queue?
Gaurav Nigam
Sure, sir, I’ll come back.
Operator
Yeah. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepak Lalwani from Unified Capital. Please go ahead.
Deepak Lalwani
Hi sir. Thank you for the opportunity again. So we are looking at the gold prices which are up today. And a lot of dwellers including the organized chains and unorganized sitting on large inventory gains and not being able to sell inventory. And there is a high tendency of discount that we’re seeing in the market. So the gross margin that we did this did in this quarter, about 12%. Is that at risk and are we reducing any making charges? If you can give some sense on that number.
Saurabh Gadgil
We are not sitting on very heavy inventory. We have only been buying for the last three, four months what has been needed in the store. And it’s been a very calibrated approach to stocking at the stores. Like Kiran had mentioned before that due to hedging we have not been able to see any price gain shown in the balance sheet due to the price increase. Thirdly, I think in terms of margins and sales since the inventory is something which is fresh which is as per the desired level, we are not really on the discounting spree. So one of the major factor has been that when Diwali Q3 normally there are discounts and schemes going on. In Q4 we did not have any offer schemes. So that also has been one more reason why we have seen our increase in the margins because of the discount factor going down. So we believe that going ahead also discounting is not going to be the key strategy for us. It’s going to be educating the consumer, looking at people’s shopping experience, increasing the value chain and going and, you know, positioning our brand. Asked our position further of being the organized family jeweler of the country.
Deepak Lalwani
Yes. So that is. Well understood. Second question sir. So we’ll be expand. We’ll be expanding about eight cocoa stores in PNG and a few lightweight stores. So we won’t be needing money to expand because we already have 400 crores on the balance sheet. We’ll be generating another 300 crores next year. So I just wanted your opinion if you would want to reconsider your thoughts on the dilution because that is eventually going to hurt the ROE profile of the company. So just wanted some sense on that.
Saurabh Gadgil
Definitely there isn’t a plan of immediate plan of going for any dilution. It was just agenda table for taking the board approval. We also understand that funds have to be deployed once they are raised. And like you mentioned right now the growth for next year would be would more or less be funded from internal approvals and profits. So there isn’t any real, you know, pressing need to do the dilution at a particular date. We have till September 2027 timeline for us for looking at dilution. So at the right time and right valuation we would touch that subject.
Deepak Lalwani
Yes, that is understood. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Saurabh Gadgil
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sonal Minhas from Persian Capital. Please go ahead.
Sonal Minhas
Hi, this is Sonal Minas. I hope I’m audible.
Saurabh Gadgil
Yeah, hi.
Sonal Minhas
Yeah, hi. I had the first question regard to your revenue. If I take away the bullion sales from the revenue for Q4, both Q4 this year and Q4 for FY24, the top line seems to have grown by around 40 odd percent when the gross profit has gone up including the other income by around 20% excluding the other income by around 10 12%. So if you could just explain me what is the reason the gross profit has gone up by around 10% this quarter. Set the base for the remaining.
Kiran Firodiya
Yeah, so that is really a good question because you know when you have in your revenue those items which not contributing to the gross margin then in that case your gross profit is definitely affecting. And that is what we witnessed for last one year or odd year in last 25 financial year 24. But since that business has been totally abolished or totally discontinued from 1st October 2024 we have observed that you know there is increment in the revenue and that incremented revenue has increased the gross margin as well. Now at the same time, you know, from 1st of October since we have completed successfully IPO the entire funds has been deployed to utilize that funds for your. Having a product mix, increasing the store count, you know, having that Kara Gear product, you know, the negotiation with Kara Gear as well as you know reshuffling the entire finance cost, you know arrange, you know completely square of the debt. And the current finance cost is you know as compared to earlier years, you know in the range of 4% which is in last year. It’s almost.
Sonal Minhas
Can I just pause you here? Can I just pause you here? Just moving slowly because I wanted to understand this. So Your revenue in FY24 fourth quarter was roughly 1100 crores. If we remove the bullion, bullion was around 480 odd crores. What margins were you making on the bullion Worldpark margins just to understand this much.
Kiran Firodiya
So yeah, so on bullion there was no margin and in retail we have a margin.
Sonal Minhas
So on 1100 crores of sale we made a gross profit of 157 crores. Removing other income we made a gross profit of 155 crores.
Kiran Firodiya
Correct.
Sonal Minhas
Last quarter. I’m reading from your deck. Now moving to this quarter FY25Q4 you’ve made a sale of 5588cr and you have made a gross profit of 190 minus 50 which is 175cr. Correct. Am I, Am I right in reading those numbers?
Kiran Firodiya
Yeah. Yeah. Correct. So now in my in quarter 4 of financial year 25 my total sale is 1587 which is almost 1293 crore is from retail and 294 is from non retail. But now there is no component of bullion sale. So the entire.
Sonal Minhas
That’s why I want to pause here. So that’s why I want to pause here. I’m comparing apples to apples. Your Q4 FY24 non bullion sale is roughly 1100 crore which made a gross profit of 155 crores. Your sale all business is similar. Basically Your sale in Q4FY25 is 1580 crores on a gross profit of 175cr. Now if we compare these two numbers basically then your gross profit has gone up by 12% while your sale has gone up by 40%. Correct?
Kiran Firodiya
Correct. Correct.
Sonal Minhas
Right sir. So basically there is a gross margin.
Kiran Firodiya
12% is only for quarter.
Sonal Minhas
But I’m talking quarter only. I’m talking quarter only.
Kiran Firodiya
So now if think about quarter then gross margin improvement is 12%. But revenue increment is net of is only 5%.
Sonal Minhas
I want to again emphasize your gross margin. If we can take out the bullion sales basically has squeezed.From Q4FY24 to Q4FY25. I want to understand the reason. If we take out the bullion page, the gross margin is finished. I want to understand the reason for this.
Kiran Firodiya
Reason for what? Reason? For discontinuation.
Sonal Minhas
Reason for gross margin shrinkage. When I compare Q4FY25 to Q4FY24. If I strip away the bullion sale, your gross margin has reduced.
Kiran Firodiya
No. If I. If I have to give you the exact figure. Just hold on. Just hold on. So if I have to give you the exact figure then. If I have to remove then my gross margin for retail which we have posted for financial year Q4. 24. It’s 10.18. Almost 10.4. What we have demonstrated against which this year we have demonstrated 11.85. That is almost 12%. If I have to skip that Boolean part. That Boolean part. Refinery sale for last quarter of the financial year is only 300 crore. For financial year 24 quarter 4 which is sale of 1510 crore. In which my refinery sale is only 300 crore. And this financial year quarter 4 which we have posted a revenue of 1587 in which there is no refinery sales. So if I have to remove. It is only 300 crore removal. Right?
Sonal Minhas
Okay.
Kiran Firodiya
So that is what I am saying.
Sonal Minhas
So if we remove 300 crores from one pipe to one two. Basically we come down.
Kiran Firodiya
What else you want?
Saurabh Gadgil
See where? See the question here. The margins have increased quarter over quarter. That is what Keren is trying to mention you here. And that has really happened. Because our student ratio has gone up. Our focus on working on with higher inventory turns. Our in store acquiring new customers. Our ratio of conversions is upward of 92%. Our walk ins are increased by 37%. All this has resulted in generating sales. Being able to ride the tide. And not just look at bullion sale but jewelry sale have been strong. Diamond sales, studded sale have been strong. And that is why the margin increase has happened.
Sonal Minhas
Got it, sir. So how much margin do we lose in hedging?
Operator
Sorry to interrupt. Mr. Sonal. May we request that you return to the question queue for a follow up question?
Sonal Minhas
Okay.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Naveen Trivedi from Motil Oswal. Please go ahead.
Naveen Trivedi
Yeah, just couple of questions from my side. How much was our GML at the end of the year? And what kind of interest rate you expect going ahead and what are the rates currently?
Kiran Firodiya
Yeah, so. Good question. Naveen. Hi. So this year we have now March ended. We have a GML of around 615kg. So which my GML cost is coming around 3% with the increased rate of interest. And at the same time you know we are covered with respect to total inventory it is 80%. And with respect to month on month basis it is 100% effectively.
Naveen Trivedi
You said GM is 670 crore. Correct.
Kiran Firodiya
615 cr.
Naveen Trivedi
And I think you’re counting in kg or cr s. I just missed out.
Kiran Firodiya
Yeah. No, no. Yeah, go ahead.
Naveen Trivedi
Yeah. So I was saying GML is 650 in kg. You are saying kg.
Kiran Firodiya
Kg. see what happened. My total inventory out of my total inventory 84% comes of gold. Now my total inventory of gold out of is 30% is you know hedge with respect to the replenishment model of URD and remaining 52% is 55% is by way of GML as well as derivative instrument.
Naveen Trivedi
Sure. And just on the. On the depreciation part this quarter versus last quarter we have seen a significant change in the depreciation. And any one of them. Or do you think that this run rate will continue 13 cover which we had done this quarter?
Kiran Firodiya
No, no. This quarter depreciation is high because whatever stores we have launched in Q3 they have been completely doing this structural audit by January. So whenever we are opening new store after completely hand over the store we are not booking the entire capitalization of asset because we are doing the structural audit from third party. And they will require minimum three weeks to hand over the report. So those store which we open in Q3 they are getting capitalized in Q4. That is the reason there is slight improvement in the depreciation.
Naveen Trivedi
So annually we can take more like 40, 45 crore. Kind of a deposition.
Kiran Firodiya
Yeah.
Naveen Trivedi
And just one thing on the last. We had some inventory gain last year in fourth quarter.
Kiran Firodiya
Yes. Last year, quarter four or entire year we have almost inventory gain of 18 crore.
Naveen Trivedi
Then all in the quarter four
Kiran Firodiya
More or less. Because last year also we have a top turn of around six. So whatever inventory we remain that is for last quarter only. So that gain is a cumulative gain of you know, up and down kind of thing. But whatever profit we have posted annually in that 18 crore was there. If you want exact last quarter then I need to dig out the data. Navit.
Naveen Trivedi
Yeah. Thank you. That’s all from my side.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bebor Haaland from an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks for the opportunity. I just want to. Just want to ask. So you are saying first of all what is the reason for the missing guidance? In the current year you had guided to do around 8,000 to mid,200 crores of the. And back to I think last, I think September quarter. So what happened that we lift the guidance by around five, six months.
Kiran Firodiya
Hello, I’m not able to hear you clearly. Can you, can you request to please repeat the question?
Unidentified Participant
Am I, Am I audible? Yeah.
Kiran Firodiya
Now, now. Much better.
Unidentified Participant
What My first question is that we had guided to do 8000 plus crores of top line in FY25 but we have done only 7600 crores. What is the reason for missing the guidance by approximately 400 crores in just a matter of six months?
Kiran Firodiya
Correct. So that is a good question.
Saurabh Gadgil
So the primary reason for that is the discontent of the entire the B2B refinery sale that that would have been in the ratio of 800 crores which would have led us to a turn of 8200 crores. But since we complete discontinued that that is why we have been looking at the revenue of 8.7600odd crores. So our revenue from retail franchisee and E. Com all are as per the target which we are giving
Unidentified Participant
Thanks. And next year are we guiding to do 30 percentage top line on the 7,600 crores or are we guiding 30 percentage top line only on the retail components of BCFB?
Kiran Firodiya
No, actually now we are strongly believe that we will continue the entire top line. That 7700 top line which we are giving now there is no B2B sales. So now we have non retail portion includes E commerce and franchisee. There is also a huge growth we are expecting and the retail portion is. So insight that we are proposing to you all is that on the top line of 7700 we are expecting 2025% or up to 30% growth in totality.
Unidentified Participant
So are you saying that we will at least do 9,500 crores of top line for the current year if I take a 25% growth from 7700 odd.
Saurabh Gadgil
That’s right.
Unidentified Participant
Because see I just recommend one thing to the management when you release the press release also on a quarterly level the test yield is very confusing because on one hand you say that we have posted a retail growth. Of X and then we see the overall revenue there is hardly any growth. So the investors are taking this kind of updates right from a kind of a not very transparent kind of a thing. So if you can be little transparent right in your press release that will also help see
Saurabh Gadgil
Going ahead there will not be any confusion because there is no B2B sales now. So whatever comparison growth will be to be Apple to Apple. So when you talk on Q4 when we talk on Q1 of this year it will be on a growth which will only be on retail and non retail will have only franchise and E Com. So it will be Apple to Apple it will be self explanatory. But the point is noted.
Unidentified Participant
And the next point is that in the current quarter we have posted 4 percentage EBITDA margin right 4 percentage PAT margin in the current quarter. Now we are and this year there is no bullion share right in the current quarter 0 bullion. Now despite 0 bullion sale we have posted 4 percentage PAT margin. So why are you guiding for a 2.85 to 3.25 percentage pack margin for the next year that I’m not able to understand why there is a sudden sharp drop from the current year run rate of the pack margin.
Operator
Mr. Bibor
Kiran Firodiya
Sir, in current year also we have six month that B2B sale which had no margin. So this year we have a two portion one up to six month we have a bullion portion and next half which is H2 there is no bullion sale. That is the reason on a quarter on quarter basis you have seen 3.9%.
Unidentified Participant
My question is. No, no sir my question is not
Saurabh Gadgil
From the quarter retail side it doesn’t include ecom, doesn’t include franchisee.
Unidentified Participant
Sir my question is current run rate in the Q4 that does not any include any boolean. Next year also it will not include any boolean. So current quarter is like to like versus next year number. So if in the current quarter itself we have posted 4 percentage pat margin why are you guiding 3.25 percentage maximum for the next margin? What will it change?
Kiran Firodiya
Yeah because you know that’s the reason we are going outside Maharashtra wherein you know we probably required at least one or two quarter more to reach to a breakeven till date we are into the state of Maharashtra. We have a legacy, we have a brand value and there we required a very low time to reach to a break even. And the moment any store reached to break even they started contributing to the bottom line. And that is what we have experienced. The stores which we open in nine days or before Navratri. They are operationally in the profit but same momentum on a safer side. We don’t want to give you wrong picture that yes we are continuously up slightly. There may be deviation. That is again assumption. We are also eagerly want to keep the same momentum but on a safer side. Maybe 0.5% here and there. We are targeting.
Saurabh Gadgil
It’s a. It’s an unknown state. The cost could go little higher. That’s why we are giving a little, you know, a cautious guidance. But the aim would be to continue on the. On the number which we have been able to demonstrate in Q4.
Operator
Sorry to interrupt. We would take that as the last question. Due to time constraints, ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints. That was the last question. I now hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments.
Saurabh Gadgil
So thank you everybody for attending the conference and for the Q and A. If you have any further questions, we’d be happy to clarify the doubts. Our PR partners, X4B would be happy to assist you in that. It was a pleasure. And as a company, we stand committed to achieving our commitments and delivering growth and value to our stakeholders. Thank you, everybody.
Kiran Firodiya
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. On behalf of Motilal OSWAL Financial Services Ltd. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your.