Oriental Aromatics Ltd (NSE: OAL) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Feb. 04, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Dharmil Bodani — Chairman & Managing Director
Shyamal Bodani — Executive Director
Girish Khandelwal — Chief Financial Officer
Parag Satoskar — Chief Executive Officer
Analysts:
Nupur Jainkunia — Analyst
Ankit Gupta — Analyst
Chetan Doshi — Analyst
Puneet Singh — Analyst
Richa — Analyst
Saket — Analyst
Abhinandan — Analyst
Madhur Rathi — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Oriental Aromatics Limited Q3 and Nine Months FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing the star then zero on your touchtone phone. I now hand the conference over to Ms Nikur Jain from Valorem Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, ma’am.
Nupur Jainkunia — Analyst
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and a very warm welcome to you all. My name is Nikur Jan Kunia from Valorem Advisors. We represent the Investor Relations of Oriental Aromatics Limited. On behalf of the company, I would like to thank you all for participating in the company’s earnings call for the 3rd-quarter and nine months ended of the financial year 2025. Before we begin, let me mention a short cautionary statement. Some of the statements made in today’s earnings call may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, which could cause the actual results to differ from those anticipated. Such statements are based on management’s beliefs as well as assumptions made by and information currently available to management. Audiences are cautioned not to place any undue reliance on these forward-looking statements in making any investment decisions. The purpose of today’s earnings call is purely to educate and bring awareness about the company’s fundamental business and financial quarter under review.
Now let me introduce you to the management participating with us in today’s earnings call and hand it over to Ten for the opening remarks. We have with us today Mr Dharmer Godhani, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr Sharmal Bodhani, Executive Director; Mr Girish, Chief Financial Officer; Mr Prag, Chief Executive Officer; and Ms Kiranpriet Girl, Company Secretary of the company.
Without any further delay, I request Mr, sir to start with his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Dharmil Bodani — Chairman & Managing Director
Thank you, Nupur. Good afternoon, everybody. It is a pleasure to welcome you all to the earnings conference call to discuss the results of the 3rd-quarter of the financial year 2025. Our Executive Director, Mr Sharmal Bodhani, shall be briefing you all on the operational highlights for the past quarter, after which our CFO, Mr Girish Khandelwal, will brief you on the financial highlights. Over to you, Sharmal. Thank you.
Shyamal Bodani — Executive Director
Thank you, Dharmal. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us for the quarter three financial year 2024-’25 earnings call. I’m pleased to share our operational highlights and business performance for the quarter ended 31st December 2024. As we move through the fiscal year, it is important to note that the 3rd-quarter has historically been a quieter period for us. This trend is primarily driven by the varying levels of impact that the Indian festival season has on all our business divisions. This year has been no exception. Despite — despite the seasonal slowdown, we stay committed to our long-term strategic goals and continue to focus on operational efficiencies, innovations and strengthening our market position. Our ongoing productive initiatives, sharp focus on customer engagement and commitment to customer growth have enabled us to achieve double-digit growth in-production, sales and operating EBITDA compared to quarter three of 2023, ’24. However, when compared to quarter two of 2024, ’25, production volumes, sales and operating EBITDA margins have remained flat, reflecting the typical seasonality and macroeconomic conditions affecting the industry.
Business division performance. So first, I will begin with the fragrance and flavor division. This division has shown robust growth driven by both existing customers and new customer acquisitions. Our performance in this segment further reinforces Oriental Aromatics position as a preferred and sustainable innovative partner, helping our customers drive — customers drive growth through innovative solutions. Despite a slowdown in FMCG demand in India, we view this as an opportunity. Our creative teams in the fragrance and flavor division are actively collaborating with R&D and product development teams at FMCG companies to develop market-winning fragrances and flavors. These fragrances serve as key differentiators in the market, enabling FMCG companies to enhance product appeal and boost customer demand. Our backward integration advantage uniquely positions Oriental Aromatics to deliver these high-impact solutions. Spine fragrance has been another key growth driver and continues to be a significant and profitable growth part of our fragrance division. The category has seen a surge in-demand due to new product launches, social media influence on consumer preferences and a shift in fragrance usage behavior due to global warming. With customers now using five fragrances as a daily essential rather than just for special occasions, demand has significantly increased. OEL has secured substantial business in this category, both in India and across the globe, solidifying our leadership in this space.
On the and terpane chemicals division. We have powered through segments continued to face a challenge — challenging market environment affecting overall performance. However, demand and price realization for other terpene-based products stays strong. With global pionine prices firming up, we expect that powder prices will eventually adjust, leading to improved profitability for this division.
On the Specialty Chemicals division, we have delivered a strong quarter continuing its growth trajectory. As highlighted in our earlier investor call, our newly commissioned multi-product hydrogenation facility at Varodra and a single-product plant at Mahad have been ramping-up production month-over month, further strengthening our specialty chemical portfolio. Input cost and market outlook, we foresee a firmer output for input costs across our supply chains and business divisions. While we expect these impacts to be mild-to-moderate for now, we are closely watching key macroeconomic factors, including the depreciation of the Indian rupee, which could have cost implications in the near-term, the recent tariffs imposed by the USA on certain countries, which may influence global trade dynamics and pricing trends in the upcoming quarter.
Regulatory update, US-FDA certification secured. On the regulatory front, we are pleased to inform our investors that we have successfully defended our US-FDA certification for Camphor during a recent concluded — concluded US-FDA audit at our facility. This reaffirms our commitment to maintaining world-class quality standards and regulatory compliances across our operations. In closing remarks, in the summary, with while this quarter has had its challenges, we stay optimistic about our long-term growth trajectory. Our strategic initiatives, market positioning and operational strength continue to drive resilience and growth across all divisions.
We thank our investors for their continued trust and look-forward to delivering sustained value in the coming quarters. I would like to now request our CFO, Mr Girish, to give the financial highlights. Thank you, and over to you, Girish.
Girish Khandelwal — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you very much,. I would like to welcome you all to the conference call. Let me first take you through our consolidated performance for the quarter. The operating revenue for the quarter was INR223 crores, which increased by approximately 13% on a year-on-year basis. In terms of profitability, EBITDA was reported at INR23 crores, which increased by 60% year-on-year. Our EBITDA margin stood at 10.15%, representing a 301 basis-points improvement year-on-year. Net profit was reported at INR7 crore, which has increased more than 174% on a year-on-year basis with PET margins at 3.19%.
Now coming to the nine months of FY ’25 performance, on a consolidated basis, the operating revenue was reported at INR675 crore, representing an increase of 9% year-on-year. EBITDA stood at INR73 crores for the period, which has grown more than 181% year-on-year. EBITDA margins for the period stood at 10.86% vis-a-vis 4.19% in corresponding Nine-Month FY ’24. And net profit stood at INR33 crore vis-a-vis a net loss of INR1 crore in the corresponding period of the previous year. With PET margins reported at 4.87%, demonstrating the impact of our efficiency measures and product mix optimization. From a balance sheet perspective, we continue to maintain financial discipline. Our net-debt to equity ratio on a consolidated basis stood at 0.45 times as of December 31, 2024, ensuring a stable financial position to support our growth ambitions. We remain committed to driving operational efficiencies, strengthening our product portfolio and capturing new market opportunities to create long-term value for our stakeholders.
With this, we can now open the floor for the question-and-answer session. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star N1 on your touchstone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star N2. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Ankit Gupta from Bamboo Capital. Please go-ahead.
Ankit Gupta
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my question is on the volume growth that we have seen and how do you see the volume growth panning out? So in this quarter, we have seen a 6% increase in our volumes on a Y-o-Y basis. So with the — given the industry situation currently and given with both the expansion at Baroda and that we have done, how do you see the volume growth panning out for us for FY ’26?
Dharmil Bodani
Hi, Ankit. So primarily, when we look at the — all the divisions, I think we are seeing a substantial growth in terms of value as well as volume for the fragrance division as well as for the Specialty Aroma ingredients division. In terms of the new products that have been launched, we are glad to inform you that they have been accepted by customers in India as well as globally. So we are pretty confident assuming that the demand now is more or less stable globally. We will have volume growth in our current set of products as well as the new products that are being launched in the recently commissioned plants.
Ankit Gupta
Got it. Can we expect volume growth to be in double-digits, it’s assuming the new products that we are launching from the new plants that we have completed. So at least double-digit growth is what should we be looking at in FY ’26?
Dharmil Bodani
So I think it would be — it would not be prudent to really give any guidance per se. What I can safely say that the products that are being launched are generic in nature. We know that the product has huges globally. I think we have our cost sheets more or less sorted-out on these products. And as customers are accepting the products more-and-more, we always normally go through a transition where they do allocate part of the volumes to us for two or three cycles before they really give us substantial volumes. So I can guarantee you — I can assure you that we are trying our best to get as much volumes allocated to us and we are pretty confident of achieving it.
Ankit Gupta
Okay. And how is the pricing scenario from China currently? Have we seen some stabilization in prices on the aroma chemical and front or the situation remains like that the pricing remains a bit challenging?
Dharmil Bodani
So I think as we mentioned, as mentioned in his opening remarks, you know, the last few quarters have been a situation where the prices have stayed more or less flat except a few materials on the fragrant side of our business. But they have stayed more or less flat. I think the impact of any macroeconomic factors like sanctions or currency depreciation needs to be seen going-forward and whether they would lead to reduction in prices or increase in prices, it’s something that needs to be seen. But more or less across-the-board, we are seeing relative amount of stability in pricing on the input costs, except, which has formed up, but not in the form of spikes as we have seen in the past.
Ankit Gupta
So and my third and last question before I come back-in the queue is on the depreciation and finance cost. So on a consolidated basis, we have seen some jump-in both the figures. So can we assume that the figures of INR6.4 crore on depreciation or and INR6.6.5 crores on finance cost is including the impact of the capexes that we have done at Baroda and and this fully captures the — and it will be like INR6.5 crores run-rate going-forward as well give like this quarter was fully reflective of the capex that we have done at both the locations.
Dharmil Bodani
Girish, you want to answer it?
Girish Khandelwal
Yes, yes. Finance cost includes, yes, the finance costs related to the projects also and depreciation will go up little bit to the tune of INR7 crores because this quarter partially depreciation of Maher CapEx has captured.
Ankit Gupta
Okay. So sustaining INR7 crore will be the depreciation on a quarterly basis with both the capex is depreciation being factored. Sure. Okay. Thank you and wish you all the best. I’ll come back-in the queue.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to answer questions from all participants, please limit your questions to two per participant in the conference as there are several participants waiting for their turn. The next question is from the line of Chetan Doshi from Tulsi Capital. Please go-ahead.
Chetan Doshi
Good afternoon, gentlemen. I have two questions. One is, for the nine months, we have ended roughly around INR680 crores. So can we expect that by March, we should be able to achieve a milestone of INR1,000 crores for this financial year. And second question is regarding the finance cost, in the notes you have mentioned that GST penalty of INR2.4 crores is there on this. So if that would not have been there, then the profit would have been around INR12 crores for this quarter.
Dharmil Bodani
So Chetan, I’ll try to answer the first question and leave the second one to Girish. I mean, we — as we say in the Gish, I mean the endeavor of the whole team is to ensure that we reach to this — to this milestone as early as possible. However, we also have an objective that we have to reach that milestone in a very sustainable and a profitable way. So just to kind of answer your question, I think all efforts are on to see if we can kind of reach that milestone as early as possible. Whether we do it in the current financial or probably we’ll have to wait for one more year, it’s something which we need to wait-and-watch.
Chetan Doshi
Sorry to ask one thing is that after the expansion, what we have done in Bharoda and in Mahad and the existing product range what we have. So your internal target is to achieve this or it is not for this financial levels? That is the question.
Dharmil Bodani
Absolutely. So like I said that you know the plants that have been recently commissioned in as well as in Mahad the objective was to kind of get them commissioned as early as possible. We have had some minor delays in the commissioning. And because of which the projections that we had in terms of production than sales stand a bit skewed. The matters get a little complicated because of the cost pressures that we have on the division as well. Having said that across-the-board, if you add-up all the divisions, all the divisions seems to be doing pretty well. Therefore, minor these fluctuations, we should be very close to the number is what our expectation is. But whether we really cross the line or not, it’s something which we need to see.
Girish Khandelwal
I want to answer regarding the finance cost. So that INR2.5 crores of finance cost — interest cost-related to the IGFC. It is included in the corresponding December ’23 quarter as well as nine months of the corresponding period, not in the current quarter.
Chetan Doshi
Okay, this is the last quarter,
Girish Khandelwal
The corresponding quarter, December ’23.
Chetan Doshi
Maybe last financial year, not the current financial year.
Girish Khandelwal
, not in the current financial year, right.
Chetan Doshi
Okay, okay, okay. Yeah. Thank you.
Dharmil Bodani
Thank you.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Puneet Singh from Cyclical PMS. Please go-ahead.
Puneet Singh
Hi, sir, thank you for this opportunity. Can you please share the price then for campus, so what is the parent price of campus and how have they tended as compared to last quarter and as compared to last year as well?
Dharmil Bodani
So did I get your name right? Is it Puneet?
Puneet Singh
Go back.
Dharmil Bodani
Yeah. So right. So primarily, you know, rather than getting into the specific per kilo price because that may vary from customer-to-customer and supplier to supplier. I think if you look at the overall landscape in the powder business, there seems to be a lot of overcapacity that’s there, which is driving a lot of players are current as well as old to be very, very aggressive in terms of the pricing. And hence, I can summarize by saying that the current selling price of the camfor in the market does not, does not reflect the actual cost of production.
Puneet Singh
Let’s about this in terms of broad range, if you can give a broad range of prices right now and how have they been trending as compared to last year or last quarter that would be really helpful.
Dharmil Bodani
So I think currently in the current — in the current situation, the powdered camfor prices would range anywhere between INR450 to INR500. And if you looked at the similar time last year, they were — they were at around INR380 to INR420 rupees.
Puneet Singh
Got it. So the situation has been improving. So sir. Yeah. So sir, what is the current capacity utilization on a consolidated basis and what is the — I mean, maximum venue potential with the current capacity? And do we have any further capex plans for FY ’26 and in case we do, do we plan to raise any debt for the same? So what should be our peak debt in the coming years or something I would like to understand.
Dharmil Bodani
So if you look at our current capacity utilization for plants which are already-existing, I think all of them are running at optimal capacity, which when I say optimal, we are looking at anywhere between 80% to 90%. For the plants that have been recently commissioned, which are plants at Mahad and the multi-product hydrogenation facility, those have capacity utilization, which is relatively less, but no plant currently is running at less than 50% of its planned capacity, point number-one. And point number two, we’re going to now focus on more on the consolidation of the products that we have currently launched. And if there is any new information about capacities or plants that we would be putting up, we will definitely share it with the investor community.
Puneet Singh
There are no plans as of now. So sir, what is the revenue potential of the volume to came up?
Operator
MR., can you please follow back is this a follow-up — is this a follow-up. I can join back the queue.
Dharmil Bodani
Hello.
Puneet Singh
Yes, sir. So I mean, what is the maximum revenue potential from the new units? And as of now, as I understand, there are no upcoming program, right?
Dharmil Bodani
So what you can do is,, if you could just send us the — if you can just reach-out to Valorem and send us the question, we will internally discuss about it and we will revert back to you for sure.
Puneet Singh
Got it, sir. Thank you very much.
Dharmil Bodani
Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
The next question is from the line of from EquityMaster. Please go-ahead.
Richa
Sir, thank you for the opportunity. Could you just give me the gross block at end of December quarter or maybe by the end of this year?
Girish Khandelwal
Sorry, I missed the question.
Richa
The gross block by the end of FY ’25 or by the end of December quarter
Girish Khandelwal
Sorry. One second one.
Dharmil Bodani
If you do not have it, Girish, you could probably reach-out and get that number and/or you could give it later?
Girish Khandelwal
Yes, yes.
Richa
Sure, sir. And sir, my question is also come down, there seems to be a sharp decline. So is this the normalized run-rate for the coming period?
Dharmil Bodani
Ma’am, we missed your question in the middle. Can you repeat the question again?
Richa
My question is regarding other income, which seems to have declined on a sequential and year-on-year basis. So is this a normalized expectation for the other income and what is the reason for the decline?
Dharmil Bodani
Girish, you want to take this?
Girish Khandelwal
Sorry, gross block I was just taking. So net block is around INR425 crores.
Richa
Yeah. Thank you. Are you welcome? Yeah. This is nice. Okay. Sir, could you also talk about the fall in the other income, the reason for the same and what can we expect going-forward?
Girish Khandelwal
Also see the drop-in the other income because this quarter we do not have the foreign — ForEx gain. So this gain is adjusted against the loss, ForEx loss. So that is why that other income has reduced.
Richa
Okay. And sir, in the new plants, Mahar and hydrogeneration plant, by the end of FY ’25 and FY ’26, what kind of utilizations do you expect?
Dharmil Bodani
I think we should — by the end of ’25 — in the hydrogenation facility, we are already seeing a utilization between 60% to 70%. And when it comes to by end of FY ’26, we should have — we should probably be running that plant at optimal levels. And is less. Mahad is anywhere between, say, 40% to 50% because it’s recently commissioned. But I’m sure we will — we will have substantially higher capacity utilization in the coming quarters.
Richa
Okay. And sir, what kind of yet do you see —
Operator
Can you please thank you. Participants, please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Saket, an Individual Investor. Please go-ahead.
Saket
Hello. Am I audible?
Dharmil Bodani
Yes.
Saket
Yeah. So thanks for the opportunity. So first question would be,, there is a — or there is why there is a purchase of stock in trade almost INR7.5 crores that has popped up in this quarter. So what really explains this?,
Dharmil Bodani
Barag, you can answer regarding the trading business.
Parag Satoskar
So primarily, I mean, we have also initiated one more activity as part of our ongoing business where you see an opportunity in taking positions on certain generic materials which are used regularly by our fragrance creation division as well as they have a substantially large outlet in the Indian FNF space and that’s where we have taken certain positions on these fragrance raw materials and which we have either imported or bought locally. And we are going to sell it as our trading division materials in the Indian market and/or also consume it in our fragrance division.
Saket
Okay. So basically — and will this be — so was it profit — has it already broken even this trading aspect or we are looking to break-even say in the coming quarters?
Parag Satoskar
Okay. So I think it’s an activity which is ongoing. I’m sure it’s definitely profitable and we will see more action happening in this space in the coming quarters.
Saket
Okay, fair enough. Now in the consol and the — so the new facility is part of console, right? It’s not part of standalone.
Girish Khandelwal
Yeah, it’s part of consol.
Saket
And there was no revenue from Mahad because there is no difference between the top-line.
Girish Khandelwal
No.
Saket
Okay. And we as — I think numbers in the — not so that we incurred around INR3.5 crore losses in the facility. So are we given the utilization and also this — because it seems there was no utilization at all-in Q3. So in Q4, given whatever utilization that guiding for, do we expect it to breakeven in Q4 or at least contribute to EBITDA.
Parag Satoskar
Sure. So I think, Girish, correct me if I’m wrong because I’m kind of getting into a quasi financial question. But you know, I think the plant is recently commissioned. We are — the plant is running at capacity. We are in the process of getting the products right for our customers based on the sampling that has been done from the trial — from the — from the trial commercial production, the customers are happy. So going-forward, it should definitely start contributing towards — towards the — towards profitability. Yeah. Is correct me if I’m wrong?
Girish Khandelwal
Correct. And we will see the revenue up incoming from the June quarter or September quarter, because September quarter will be the H2 for the M&C.
Saket
Just to be sure that in Q4, there will be revenue from Mahat plant and it will be a margin-accretive because in Q3, it was not, right? No revenue and no profitability either.
Parag Satoskar
So in Q4, we will definitely have revenues, how significant they will be, etc., etc. I mean, like said that when we — when we will have the commercial lots which are approved to be sold, the first shipments are going to probably go to our stop spot customers. And the actual contracts, et-cetera will start happening in Q1 of next financial year. That’s when we go and bid for the H2 contracts of 2025 calendar with our global customers. So that’s when there will be significant, but we are going to use all the Q3 and Q4 of this year to produce and keep it in-stock and to start selling it to people who want to buy it in spot.
Saket
Okay, fair enough. And just last question. So, when do we expect to say come back to that — say and removing the new plants at 14% to 17% kind of a long-term EBITDA guidance part because our competitors or say peers have already started to go back to those numbers, their normalized margins, but ours is still struggling. So is it like there has been some issue with the product of any particular portfolio that is causing this or is only driven and when do we expect to get back to that normalized margin?
Parag Satoskar
Okay. So Sake, primarily if you look at — if you look at Oriental’s a program of growth, you know, the period has to be taken from 2018 to 2025. You know, the whole aroma ingredient piece as well as the backward integration piece with our fragrance division was conceptualized in 2018. And then from that time onwards, we’ve been continuously building plants. We’ve been standardizing the products. We’ve been achieving growth in those products. And in the meantime, we have had a new plant that was coming in where this whole cycle had to be repeated. That is the reason why if you look at broadly the numbers from a quarter-to-quarter perspective, you have some products which have now seen a normalized profit margins contributing to the overall group P&L. But you also have certain products which are just launched and there we have to kind of — because they are generic products, we have to kind of face the market forces and create a space for ourselves. And that is the reason why you see that multiple quarters, we have had a situation where, yes, we are getting normalized profit in the products that are launched a little in the past. But the new products are still getting streamlined.
So — and then we had two years of disruptions because of COVID, etc. So I think we still stick to the guidance. We like to undercome it and over-deliver. And we aspire to achieve these normalized numbers, which is which is what you just mentioned. And we can only talk about ourselves. So that’s the — that’s the overall piece. If you look at our journey from 2018 to 2025. And that’s why we are now looking more at consolidation, because I think that whole program which was charted out has now seen the light of the day and hopefully as we go and become more mature in all the products, we should see more normalized margins, but we will stick to the guidance of 10% to 12%.
Operator
Thank you. MR. Saket, please call-back in the question queue for further questions. The next question is from the line of Abhinandan, an Individual Investor. Please go-ahead. MR. Abhinandan, your line has been unmuted. Please go-ahead with your question., your line has been unmuted. Please go-ahead.
Abhinandan
Hello. Am I audible now?
Parag Satoskar
Yes. Yes, you are.
Abhinandan
Sorry. Thank you, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I just wanted to understand your business model a little further. So do you have some kind of, I mean, partnership or some kind of collaboration with the innovators like for example, to supply them with the, let’s say the molecules which are under patent or something like that
Parag Satoskar
So Abhinandan primarily I think like, like we have always mentioned that when it comes to our specialty aroma ingredients and the Camphor and the terpene chemical division, we focus more on the generic materials, point number-one. Point number two, I think it’s a very clear strategy from Oriental Aromatics that we — we like the freedom to operate since we are into generics. And so we are more than happy to kind of be a global supplier to all the companies that you just mentioned. And having said that, needless to say that we have a lot of programs where we work with one or many of these companies on individual products, which I will not be able to kind of share it with you on this platform.
Abhinandan
I agree, I agree. So basically what I’m trying to understand here is that there is some kind of, I mean, a disruption in Europe. And owing to that, are you seeing some kind of increased inquiries for some of their molecules that that they might want to outsource to to you people something on those lines.
Parag Satoskar
Disruption in what exactly?
Abhinandan
European, sir, I mean these European chemical companies, they seem to be studying a little. So in response to that, are you seeing some kind of increased inquiries there from them?
Parag Satoskar
So I mean, I wouldn’t — I wouldn’t make it as a broad answer, but I would say that the generic suppliers from various countries in the world are really challenging the overall cost structure that has been lying in the fragrance and flavor space globally. So we are no different. So I’m sure that, I mean, a lot of the products that we offer to our European customers, they buy it from us because it’s of a sustainable quality and at a very competitive price. I think — I hope I’ve answered your question.
Abhinandan
Yes, yes, sir, that’s helpful. That’s very helpful. And just one more follow-up. So now looking at your last three, four quarters of gross margin, I think they have been fairly stable and we have seen — prices going up-and-down as well during this period. So given that the raw-material prices, they have kind of stabilized, do you expect that your gross margins will continue to be in the range of, 40%, 41% that we have been reporting for the last four quarters, is that a fair assumption or do you see — do you still see some kind of work, I mean, volatility there?
Parag Satoskar
So we have always maintained it in multiple investor calls that for this industry, a steady-state of business was never achieved for multiple years. I think when we have seen that steady-state of business, in two of our three divisions that we operate, we’ve been able to kind of maneuver between the three divisions and get some level of stability in terms of margins. Assuming that this stability remains, we are pretty confident that we will be able to have these sustainable numbers and aspire to make them better.
Abhinandan
And sir, is it fair to assume that your gross margins are — it’s not significantly better, at least slightly better in this aroma chemicals and fragrances compared to cancer? The gross margin part.
Parag Satoskar
For now, yes, can’t be generalized.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Madhur Rathi from Investments. Please go-ahead.
Madhur Rathi
Sir, I’m trying to understand what is our camp per total capacity and what is the total installed capacity of camper in the country and sir, because I understand that is the weak link in our business like you mentioned due to overcapacity, et-cetera. So — and by how much is there overcapacity by like in terms of percentage and sir, can’t we just can’t the domestic industry export out of this overcapacity?
Parag Satoskar
So I will not be able to give you extremely specific numbers because a lot of the companies who are active in this space are not publicly-listed. So I mean, we do not have any which — any way of getting to those numbers. What I can talk to you about is our capacity. And like we have always mentioned that our capacity is currently at optimal level. And to answer your second part of the question that can the industry work its way out of overcapacity by exporting out? Unfortunately, if you look at Camphor as a product, apart from a nominal medicinal use in Chinese medicine and some global medications. It has very limited usage globally outside these two known applications. I mean, the next big usage is in India for religious purposes. And so it’s going to be a bit challenging to really export our way out because the Chinese medicine market is fairly saturated with the Chinese camfor suppliers. And if you want to be part of the global medicinal segment of. It’s heavily regulated, which makes it as a very key challenge or an entry barrier.
Madhur Rathi
Right, sir. So basically then what is the way out, sir, where-is the light at the end-of-the panel as far as division is concerned? And sir, are we breaking even over there? And sir, what kind of return on capital are we making in that division?
Parag Satoskar
Yeah. So like I said that we definitely are breaking even in our CAM4 division, point number-one, okay. I don’t know if we kind of share individually division-wise ROCE number. So if that is a specific question, you can send it to us if we can, we will respond to it. But I can — I can assure you that we are not only breaking even, also contributes to the overall performance of the company.
Madhur Rathi
So is some improvement expected from this division or the rest of the business we have hoped and this is possibly like things will continue as they are?
Parag Satoskar
No, I think this — like I said that for us, apart from the camfor piece in the Chemical division, we are other materials where the demand seems to be pretty stable and growing. So we will continue our efforts of kind of putting this whole division together and making it more profitable. I mean, even today, it’s still contributing. I mean, it’s not that it’s kind of pulling the other divisions down. So — and as a company which is which is focused on innovation and sustainability. We will look at how we can kind of make that whole division work-in a better.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ankit Gupta from Bamboo Capital. Please go-ahead.
Ankit Gupta
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity again. Sir, if you can please talk about when do you expect the Mahat plant to reach, let’s say, optimal capacity utilization of around 70%, 80% of and any timeline that you can indicate to us?
Parag Satoskar
Yeah. So like I had mentioned in one of the premier — previous questions, Ankit, I mean, the product is very generic. The product has extremely large-scale usage globally. We — the product has been well-accepted by the customers when sampling has been done. We’ve also used it in our internal fragrance division and it’s perfectly well. So I think it’s a matter of time where, like I said that we need to take more batches. We need to have inventory. We need to go and have conversations with the customer with the inventory and a very strong cost sheet. And I think as we have mentioned in the past that we have this 500 to 600-day transition where people give us first very limited allocation just to test our ability to supply. And then based on our performance, we will have more allocation. So to answer your question, we probably are anywhere between four to six quarters where we will be able to achieve optimal capacity?
Ankit Gupta
Sure, sure. And any timelines on when we can breakeven on this plant because currently it seems that given we have just started the plant and capacity utilizations are just picking-up and we are ramping-up our production facilities. So anytime — any timing and when we expect this plant to breakeven and start contributing positively to on the EBITDA front?
Parag Satoskar
Sure. So I think Girish will answer that, but I also want to kind of advise the investor that or inform the investor that this is a large greenfield site. And this site when it was kind of developed, I mean, this is just one plant in this site. So there has been expense that has been done for site development for kind of building the basic infrastructure. And then we have built this plant. So this is the background for this site and this site is going to take care of our future expansions in the coming years. So everybody should be mindful of that. Having said that, Girish, based on projections, do you have any numbers on breakeven or would you want to share it later?
Girish Khandelwal
Yeah,, I think. 60%. Girish, your voice using is low. Hello. Can you hear me now? Yeah, you better. Around at 60%, this plant will be at breakeven or the plant perspective.
Ankit Gupta
Okay. So let’s say around second-half of next year is when we can optimistically assume that we should breakeven here.
Parag Satoskar
So should be a fair assessment, but we will keep you posted.
Ankit Gupta
Sure, sure. Just my last question on the kind of products that we’ll be manufacturing from the Mahad plant as well as the hydrogenation plant at the Baroda facility. So are there — are these products relatively high-value — the realization of these products higher than our existing product basket or it’s the same, let’s say, and does this — does the new products that we have introduced from this plant include some of the products which are, let’s say comparatively high realizations are much higher compared to our existing product basket.
Parag Satoskar
So I think if you look at Maharad, Mahad is a single-product plant. So it’s a mid value product. But if you look at the hydrogenation facility, it’s again a multi-product plant where you have certain products which are in relatively high-value, I mean close to $80, $100. And then you have certain products which are bulk, bulk commodities, which are like $7 to $10. So if you look at the product mix in the hydrogenation, it’s a — it’s a very nice, nice mix of value and volume. Mahad is a single-product where it’s mid-value and mid volume a few 100 tonnes and a month.
Ankit Gupta
So to Mahad, let’s say, in the second or the third phase, we’ll be introducing MPPs and other larger plants, let’s say, in the second or third phase of expansion whenever we do that. Is that absolutely?
Parag Satoskar
Absolutely.
Ankit Gupta
Currently just one-product which is which we are producing from there. And the plant also is designed like that. We can’t use it for other product is it like that?
Parag Satoskar
So new plant that we design, we start with a single-product plant, but eventually, you know, we find thanks to the technology backbone that we have. You know we always find some synergies between some processes that we are doing in that plant and we could utilize this because unlike hydrogenation, this is not a fixed chemistry plant.
Ankit Gupta
Sure. Okay. Okay. Thank you and wish you all the best of it. Thank you.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Richard from Equity Master. Please go-ahead.
Richa
Thank you for the opportunity again. Sir, my question is related to all these protectionist measures that are being taken by the US. How do you expect this to play-out for our business? Do we get better opportunities in the export market or is there a risk of further price erosion as China dumps it in other geographies? Just if you could just give a qualitative commentary on that.
Parag Satoskar
So I think, it’s a very broad-based question and for me to really kind of comment on it in a very specific way becomes — becomes challenging. I can very safely say that you know, none of our business strategies are designed around any of these macroeconomic factors. That’s point number-one. Point number two is if and when these come into play and you have certain markets where the Indian products might have an advantage and certain markets where you will have an eventuality of the of the other country dumping the material. I think our cost sheets and our business relationships globally should be more than capable to handle all these situations if and when they arise?
Richa
Okay. So on a conservative basis, you are confident of maintaining at least 10% to 12% margin until further — further undila plants get optimally utilized in capacity. Is that a fair assumption?
Parag Satoskar
For now. Yes.
Richa
Okay. And sir, last question, are the margins in export in-line with what we have in domestic or is there a significant difference.
Parag Satoskar
Again, I mean, because we have three different divisions and all of them between them have multiple products, I think we can very broadly say that in most of the products, the export margins are in-line with the local margins. Okay. If you correct me if I’m wrong, huh? Yes, sir.
Richa
Yeah. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chetan Doshi from Tulsi Capital. Please go-ahead.
Chetan Doshi
Thank you for the opportunity. Do you expect a one-time sale because of Mahakom, which is taking place at for sales
Parag Satoskar
So I mean, good question we have a very substantial presence in the Priyagraj complex where we have our own booth where we are selling camfor and we also have some advertising material that’s been displayed there. Having said that, I think the learning has been that you know, a lot of the people who have come there in terms of their purchasing power, you know, we’ve had massive footfall to the booth. But I think to convert that into actual sales has been a challenge. But from a visibility perspective, I’m sure that you know when these devotees or pilgrims go back we will have — they will have a better understanding of our formula product.
Chetan Doshi
Okay, okay. So we expect some gains out of this particular event coming place in this quarter.
Parag Satoskar
Yeah, I think if you have 40 crore people coming and visiting a place and if you are visible there, yeah, I’m sure it will kind of help us garner more eyeballs than what they had before the event.
Chetan Doshi
So wish you good luck. Yeah.
Parag Satoskar
Thank you. Thank you, Jith.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today’s conference call. I now hand the conference over to Mr Dharmil for their closing comments.
Dharmil Bodani
Thank you all for participating in the earnings conference call. I hope we have been able to answer your questions satisfactorily. If you have any further questions or would like to know more about the company, please reach-out to our IR managers at Valorem Advisors. We are thankful to all our investors who continue to stand-by us and have also shown confidence in the company’s future growth plans. Thank you very much.
Operator
On behalf of Oriental Aromatics Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.