Orient Electric Ltd (NSE: ORIENTELEC) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Jan. 29, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Ravindra Negi — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer
Analysts:
Dhruv Jain — Analyst
Aniruddha Joshi — Analyst
Viraj Kacharia — Analyst
Bhargav Buddhadev — Analyst
Natasha Jain — Analyst
Shreyash Sahoo — Analyst
Rahul Agarwal — Analyst
Madhur Rathi — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Orient Electric Q3 FY 2024-’25 Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Dhruv Jain from Ambit Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Dhruv Jain — Analyst
Thank you. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Orient Electric 3Q FY ’25 earnings call. From the management side, today, we have with us Mr. Ravindra Singh Negi, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Arvind Vats, Chief Financial Officer; and Mr. Sambhav Jain, Head of Investor Relations.
Thank you, and over to you, sir for your opening remarks.
Ravindra Negi — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer
Thank you, Dhruv, and good evening, everyone, and a very Happy New Year to all of you. A warm welcome to Orient Electric Q3 FY ’25 earnings conference call. Thank you for taking the time to join us today. I trust you’ve had a chance to review our financial results and earnings presentation, available on the stock exchanges and on our website.
Joining me today are Arvind Wats, our CFO; and Jain, who looks after the Investor Relations. Let me start with a brief overview of quarter three. And to me, I think the quarter three unfolded in three distinct phases of consumer uptake. The Phase-1, which I Call-IT is a pre-Diwali festive season and this was October, which saw robust performance across categories, which was driven by strong demand during the festive period, both across online and offline channels. Phase-2 is what — which was immediately after Diwali and there was a slowdown.
From November till mid-December, we witnessed a noticeable softening in consumer spending across the categories. And the third phase was around the mid of December, which was the winter onset and this was towards the end-of-the quarter. We saw demand for heating products gaining momentum and this was due to strong cold wave in North and East India. So these were the three phases which defined the consumer offtake for the quarter three. If we were to look at from a macroeconomic perspective, the quarter was marked by a slower GDP growth and a subdued consumer demand. This trend was evident across general trade, modern retail and e-commerce with industry service also indicating a dip in-housing sales in-quarter three. But despite these challenges, we remain very optimistic.
Early summer trends and government spendings in Q4 will boost sentiment, especially for cooling categories and B2B projects. Over the long-term, we believe government-led infrastructure initiatives, investments in real-estate sector, coupled with urbanization and growth in Tier-2 and Tier-3 cities will significantly drive industry growth. In this dynamic environment, our Orient Electric has demonstrated resilience, maintaining steady growth across all categories. Our focus on premiumization is yielding results, reflective in the positive outcomes across categories. Our top-line stood at INR817 crores, 8.6% year-on-year growth and a sequential quarter-on-quarter growth of almost 24%. Incidentally, this is our highest quarterly revenue and I’m sure from here on, we will build much higher. Revenue for the nine-month period reached INR2,232 crores, marking a 10.2% year-on-year increase and improving on the last year YTD growth of 8.2%.
Now let me take a pause and spend a little time on what we are driving at the core of our strategy. Our efforts on premiumization are helping us navigate the gross margin challenges and headwinds. We focused on premiumization across all major categories of lighting, fans and appliances. Like in lighting, we continue to fill white spaces in our portfolio with new products focusing on premium value-adds like COBs, which are growing at high-teens on year-on-year basis, high-value panels, rope lights, flood lights, which are growing at double-digit. These now contribute almost 60%, which is an improvement of almost 400 basis-points on a year-on basis and the traditional lamps do the balance. This ratio is amongst the better ones in the industry. We’ve also launched a digital campaign in-the-water heater segment, focusing on consumer insight on faster heating. The focus again in this category was on square shape, storage water heaters to drive premiumization. Our early efforts, though it’s on a small base have shown 300 basis-points improvement within the category mix of water heaters. And there is a lot of work happening on building up premium ranges and switches as we speak.
On the fans business side, we have driven two key programs and we’ve spoken about it earlier also, which is Project Orange and Project Spotlight, which are all about bringing the premium fans discovery to purchase experience enhanced. This has helped us drive BLDC fans much stronger in a traditionally lean quarter for fans. This period, which is Q3 is usually a pre-run to season, buildup especially for entry products. But our BLDC new launches have helped us grow 60% by 60% in BLDC and IoT category in a ceilings fan category in Q3. At a full-year YTD basis, now BLDC and IoT contribute almost 20% of the overall ceiling fans category and growing at almost about 25%. Our premium and deco category is approximately 30% down and our ambition is to take it to closer to 45%. These are the efforts that I spoke about on premiumization, which is helping us navigate the entire headwinds of pricing and any downgrades from the consumer that we see.
Now let me talk about our quarter three performance, starting with lighting and switchgears. Our rapidly-growing lighting and switchgear segments continue to perform strongly for us with year-on-year growth of a crop of almost 12%, and this is despite the ongoing headwinds of price erosion that we see very strongly in the market on B2C side. This is a superior delivery versus rest of the industry. This has also been a result of our committed strategy of focusing and driving value-add NPDs.
Our consumer lighting business achieved high double-digit volume growth backed by our new distributor partnerships and diversified sales improvements. We continue to expand our product portfolio and this has helped us gain market-share in B2C across major markets and on an overall basis. The B2C — B2B segment in lighting has also shown promising growth. We are actively working on several infrastructural projects delivering high double-digit growth. The lecture and monsoon delays initially slowed infrastructure activity. We are now seeing an increase in the execution pace along with more inquiries for street lighting and facade business. We are very aggressive on the growth of our tender business and aim to significantly increase the same from the present levels.
Our other categories such as switch gears and wires have also gained steadily, driven by our focus on electrician and retailer means. In the ECD segment, we’ve achieved 7.3% year-on-year revenue growth and a sequential growth of 30% on quarter-on-quarter basis. This is despite quarter three being traditionally a lean season for fans. This growth is primarily — was primarily achieved by our initiatives on channel shift as indicated by our DTM market revenue, which witnessed a high double-digit growth. In this quarter, we extended our direct-to-market presence in rest of Bengal, bringing the total count of direct-to-market states to 11. As I said, we are focusing on premiumization and the new product launches.
Our new product launches have contributed 19% of our revenues in fans and our new BLDC fans have received good consumer and trade response. The appliance business saw a good demand at the start of the quarter due to festive but experienced a slowdown later, partly due to delayed winter. However, as we begin building channel inventory for the upcoming summer season and with the revival of infrastructure and real-estate activity, we expect growth momentum to be better in-quarter four.
Overall, we’ve gained market-share in both lighting as well as fans category. We’ve also made strong strides in emerging channels such as e-com. Our focus sell-out strategy in e-com has helped us to grow our market-share in fans and in heating appliances. We are closely focusing on fast-growing commerce platforms like Brinkit and Zipto and ensuring consumer discovery of our products on these platforms.
On the operational front, cost optimization initiatives under Spark Sanche are delivering results. The program has delivered INR52 crores of savings on a YTD basis, which is a 13% improvement year-on-year. One of the key performance outputs this quarter has been a persistent gain in gross margins. This quarter, we’ve improved by 184 basis-points year-on-year and 230 13 basis-points on-book at a YTD level, gross margins are now sustaining a range of 31% to 33% as we speak, which is driven by premiumization, channel reorganization and a better product mix improvements. Our operating EBITDA margins for the quarter rose to 7.5%, which is up 98 basis-points on year-on-year with almost 25% of value growth. With our Hyderabad plant operations now stabilized, we are ready for season demand. We expect further gains from operating leverage in the quarters ahead.
As you know, Mr. Saibal Sengupta, CFO has super animated and Arvind Was has joined us as a new CFO. We’ve also added a dedicated BU head position for switchgears and wires to support and expedite our growth in opportunity categories. MR. Roy has joined us as a BU head for switches and wires, switchgears and wires and he comes with a strong background of having worked with Phillips, Polycab and GM. These leadership additions will further strengthen our strategic focus areas.
In conclusion, we are confident that our strategic initiatives and preparation for the upcoming seasons will drive sustainable growth across categories. We would like to now open the call for questions. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touchstone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Again to register for a question please press star and 1.
Our first question comes from the line of Aniruddha Joshi from ICICI Securities. Please go-ahead.
Aniruddha Joshi
Yeah. Sir, thanks for the opportunity. I just wanted to understand in the states where we are selling directly versus the states where we are not selling directly, what is the difference in the trade chains means, let’s say, where directly we are selling like West Bengal we added. So it is company, then the distributor and then the retailer and the consumer. Is that right? And what is really different in the other states? So there we have a super stock is as a chain gets added. Is that understanding correct?
Secondly, what is the difference in total trade spends means like per stock-base margins, distributor margins, retail margins, all these different margins that we pay? And lastly, is the electrician charges or electrician commissions are also paid similar in both type of markets? Yeah, that’s the question.
Ravindra Negi
Thank you, Anirud, for your question. Let me first explain a basic difference between MD and BTM. MDs are the markets where we have a master distributor who then has the chain of direct dealers and distributors and retailers under them. They manage the sales and distribution in those states. Direct are the ones where the layer of MD is taken off and we directly appoint distributors, we directly appoint direct dealers and we service the market.
In terms of our commissions and all, there is the layer goes off and know, I would not disclose what’s the commission structure between the two and that’s how we would — we’ve always maintained. But the larger impact that you see is that what we’ve seen in the markets and as we’ve always maintain saying, look, it’s never going to be BTM versus MD. It’s always being a hybrid model that we will have. Wherever the model seems to be working, we will continue with the model, whether it’s a DTM or a MD model, wherever there is a change required in terms of impact with the market, in terms of potential of the market and we not delivering as per the potential is where we will change like rest of Bengal is what we did in a Q3 period.
So the big difference that we’ve seen is that wherever we’ve done, we are seeing those markets growing much faster than the MD markets. Are we seeing market-share gains, our emphasis on premiumization and the mix is getting and our basics of distribution other things starts to improve there. So those are the ones that we do. Yes, in terms of a parity of retailer landing, that’s what we maintain across MB and DTM markets. So at a retailer level, the landings are more or less the same across different markets, whether it’s electration or any other. I hope that I hope that is a good supply for your question.
Aniruddha Joshi
Very helpful. But the question on electricians means, let’s say in a state where we have a master distributor. So in that state also, do we have direct connect with the as well as the direct commissions are rolled-out to him via the app or in a way, it is routed through the master distributor only.
Ravindra Negi
We don’t have a direct connect with the electricians, but we have an engagement program for the electricians where we have an app and the electricians then register there. There are different benefits that they get on the app. We do a lot of connect sessions in terms of educating our electricians on the products, the features, the benefits that we do through our teams as well as wherever we have MBT, but the larger connectors through the mobile app that we have.
Aniruddha Joshi
Okay, sure, sir. Understood. Just two more questions. One, what is the current revenue-share of the states with direct in a way or master distributor versus the remaining states? That is one. And secondly, now this year, we are — while expectation of summer is also still good, we are still going to be on a very-high base of last year. So how do you see the overall summer and the NMA growth rate spanning out and we are almost at the end of January. So how is the trade inventory panning out as well as the — in a way the primary sales also? Yeah, that’s it from my side. Thank you.
Ravindra Negi
Are — so the first question is on saying, you know, how do we look at you know, summers and let me just try and-answer that question first is that when we look at now and our complete expectation is that if you look at the season now in January, there is, you know, quite a good indication that summers may just set-in a little earlier. Specifically when we talk about North and East, West and South have a different cycle there.
Our trade inventories and other things, some part of delayed winters, but a good winter has also helped liquidate the winter products, which helps the cash to come back-in the cooling and the summer products. Right now, we are all expecting and our complete belief is that the summers will be a good one. Our — the entire focus in the organization is to make sure that we are ready for the seasons with the new products, new launches as well as the right inventory levels across the country. So we are all gearing up for that and hopefully the summer should be good and we should be able to cater to the demand that we see from there. The real test of this is February and March, Jan in any case in the quarter-four is in terms of contribution is the least contributing month.
Aniruddha Joshi
Okay. Sure, sir. And just the revenue breakup between our MD states and other states.
Ravindra Negi
By and large, broadly right now it’s about 70-30.
Aniruddha Joshi
70 would be the — sorry?
Ravindra Negi
This master distributor is 70 and is 30 and that’s from a fans only perspective.
Aniruddha Joshi
Got it. Understood. Understood, sir. Very helpful. Thank you.
Ravindra Negi
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from Viraj from SiMPL. Please go-ahead.
Viraj Kacharia
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Am I audible? Hello?
Ravindra Negi
Yeah. Hi, Viraj. We can hear you. Please go-ahead.
Viraj Kacharia
Sir, just three questions. First is on the margin. I think in the past, we talked about our aspiration to move back to 10% operating margins or slightly more over next couple of years. Can you just kind of give some perspective where are we in that and what would be the drivers of that? That is one.
Second is, you know, a few quarters back, we talked about cost impact from and us looking to pass that in the market through price increases. So can you also give some perspective, what is the cost increase and how much of that is pass-through in the market. And third is, I’ll just ask after done the first one.
Ravindra Negi
So let me first take the margins question. If you look at our margins for the quarter, our operating margins, there are two-levels that we’ve always spoken about in saying while the operating margin improvement will be a fallout of what we do at a top-line and a gross margin level and hence for the last few quarters, we’ve always been maintaining things. The first lead indicator is always the gross margin and that we’ve come to a steady-state level of 31% to 33%. Our complete effort is to there. Can we improve further on that? Yes, obviously, we are trying to get there. And we’ve also looked at what are the contours of getting the gross margin improvement and that’s the mix premiumization and that’s why all the efforts are getting on to getting into the right segments and right mix. So our gross margins have now come to a steady-state of 31% to 33% and that I think should be a comfort that all of you should have.
The second-stage was saying, how are we getting operating leverage and how is our operating margin. So if you look at it this quarter, we’ve done 7.5% operating margin, which is a 98 basis-point improvement year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter, it’s about 209%, 209 basis-point improvement. We’ve always said that we’ve invested on our structure, on our capex and everything ahead of its time. How we build-up our top-line will give us — start giving us operating leverage and that’s what we are now starting to see some bit of it. We will keep improving from here on a good summer than a couple of good quarters and we should inch up on this operating margins also.
Your second question was on the EPR. EPR is factored in some bit of it is absorbed as cost, some bit of it has passed. We’ve always maintained that whatever we need to pass to the consumers, we will not shy away from it. And if you are a brand which is stood for lifestyle and premiumization and you take the conversation away from price to a feature-led, consumers do end-up paying for that and that’s what the entire effort is all. And that’s business-as-usual now from the EPR perspective.
Viraj Kacharia
So from an EPR perspective, whatever the cost increase we saw that has either been negated through cost measures or price increase, would it that be right? Or there is still some under-absorption you have.
Ravindra Negi
That was taken last year. So EPR is something that we had taken in-quarter four last year and that’s for the industry and that’s how it has been done.
Viraj Kacharia
Okay. Just last — it’s more of a request. I mean, we have been kind of following-up for close to nine months-to nine to 10 months for a meeting with you. I mean with earlier MD also, but we will not be that fortunate. So just a request if you can give an opportunity to us as well.
Ravindra Negi
I’m sure we will — we will pick-up a meeting. Thank you.
Viraj Kacharia
Thank you.
Ravindra Negi
Thanks a lot.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, if you wish to register for a question, you may press star and one on your Touchstone phone. The next question comes from Bhargav from Ambit Asset Management. Please go-ahead.
Bhargav Buddhadev
Yeah, good afternoon, team and thank you for the opportunity. Sir, if we look at employee cost for the Orient and compare it to peers, we are the outliers by a large distance. So when do we expect the employee cost to come under control because that’s what is causing some delays in operating leverage as well. Is it fair to say that bulk of the hiring across SBUs has been done or do we see employee cost growing ahead of revenue growth as well next year.
Ravindra Negi
Thanks, for the question and let me just address it by saying that and we’ve always maintained that, look, there is always a lead and lag between how you invest and what is the leverage that you start getting out of it. We’ve always invested on people, getting the right structures and it’s always the chicken and egg story. What do you do and when do you do? So we’ve taken the right step of saying if we have to build-up businesses, if we have to build-up the right things, we will have to invest ahead of it time. Some of the things like if we have to invest in a lighting business, can I build a lighting business or a B2B business in lighting without a B2B team being there or should I build a B2B business first and then get a team. So we’ve always taken the route of saying, let’s bring the right talent, let’s bring the right people and then build it up.
The other thing that you have to look at it from a perspective of once the top-line starts to come in, that’s where the operating leverage will come in. And over the last 3/4, if we were to look at it, our employee cost as a percentage of revenue has come down from a 10.2% in-quarter one to 11.8 in-quarter two, it’s at 9.2%. And if you look at it from an industry average, right now, it’s anything if you look at any of the peers and all, they are all-in the range of 9% to 9.5%. So we are not way off, but that’s not giving us the consolation of saying that we are doing. We are constantly working to make sure that we get the right talent, we get the right delivery of top-line from the current structure and we improve it further. And you know, basically 80% of this employee cost is fixed and 20% is variable as per the top-line that keeps going.
Bhargav Buddhadev
Secondly, sir, on gross margins, if you look at pre-COVID, we were in the range of 31% to 33%. And if you look at the current levels as well, we are in that range. Now given the DTM share rising coupled with the new product developments that we are doing at, now we already have appointed a new and switchgear, which is extremely high-margin business. Is there a roadmap where we can touch 34%, 35% maybe one year down the line two. Is there a thinking on those grounds as well?
Ravindra Negi
So, you are right. Pre-COVID levels, we were at about 31% to 33%. Then we dropped, we came down as low as about 27%. And then the last four, five quarters, we’ve been building the gross margin up and these are concentrated efforts on getting the right mix and everything done. And this is also where we’ve managed the headwinds of inflation and commodities. Yes, you’re right.
And I said in my opening remarks also saying that it’s 31% 33% broad range, are we happy at that? No, we are not and obviously there is more that we can do return it. We’ve now investing on switchgears and wires and we’ve just got a view head as we speak. That should help us grow, especially the switches and switchgear will help us grow the gross margins up on that. So in next four quarters, we should see improvements or some bit of the range moving up.
Bhargav Buddhadev
Sure. And lastly, many congratulations for the working capital. So it has been consistently coming off. So 16 days is a fairly good number of with. So congrats and all the very best.
Ravindra Negi
Thank you all. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to all the participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question comes from Natasha Jain from PhillipCapital. Please go-ahead.
Natasha Jain
Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations, sir, on a great set of numbers, especially in the non-seasonal quarter. Sir, my first question is in continuation to what the first participant had asked. So when you were explaining the non-DTM chain, you said that there is a master distributor. So when your DTM state picks up growth, then do you get-out of the value chain and do you get the master distributor back or do you continue to remain in the value chain?
Ravindra Negi
So hi, sir. Thanks for the question. And as you said, it’s a hybrid model that we have, which is wherever the market is doing well, we will continue with the MD. Wherever the market hasn’t done well or the state has not done well, we will evaluate and move towards direct to-market. Once you go to direct-to-market, you will build-up a connect, you will build-up a structure, you will build-up a direct relations with the distributors and the retailer. The large strategy is that once we do that, we stay invested in that model for that market.
Natasha Jain
Sir, then is that not cost accretive to you if you continue to stay-in the market and not get a stockist or a master distributor?
Ravindra Negi
So, let me clarify. So when we go-direct, that doesn’t mean that I’m going directly to the retail. So it’s not that we’re just taking one layer of master distributor out. So my distributors are there, my direct dealers are there, my distributors cater to the retail there. My direct dealers cater to their set of retailers. So that structure stays there.
Natasha Jain
Got it. So sir, then would it be correct to say that since you will continue to remain in the value chain for some time, then ideally there should be a margin benefit pass-through to the distributor chain because now you’re saving on the master distributor. So can we see that margin coming into your books?
Ravindra Negi
No, so it’s not as simple math as that. There is a structure and a deal that I also put up. So there is those cost structures that you see salary, the question that Bargav was asking and other things. Those are the structural changes that you do. You put more efforts in the market. There is — the benefit that you get on our DTM market is through the value chain of premiumization, value chain of a better mix, value chain of a deeper distribution, value chain of your direct connect with the retailers. So those are the costs that you do incur and there is associated cost of logistics and other things. So it’s not a straight trade-off that you do. In the long-run, you get a far more closer to this end-consumer versus the MD market and that’s the benefit that we draw out of this?
Natasha Jain
Okay. Sir, then I mean your DTM states have shown phenomenal growth now. Is it just a low-base impact or is — I mean is — does that not warrant that other states should also do DTM? I mean you’re doing much better in your DTM states than your non-DTN states right now.
Ravindra Negi
So there are two factors. When we go through a transition, so depending on the transition and obviously, there is a little bit of base impact also. But then we don’t look at just the base impact. We look at mark-to-market, am I improving the market-share as a not. So base impact can give you growth percentages, but that’s not what we get happy at. We also look at eventually am I getting a better mix? Am I getting a better market-share gains. Most of the markets that we’ve now moved on, we are seeing consistent market gains. And obviously, when you do a transition, that’s the time you lose a little bit of market-share, but we look at gaining back and increasing on the pre-transition market shares. And that’s what we are witnessing in all the PPM markets.
Natasha Jain
Got it. And sir, my last question is mainly a broader level strategy question now. It’s been nine months since you’ve been in the system. So just broadly, how has your experience been and any strategy level changes that you have initiated apart from what you were handed once you joined the company? That’s it. Thank you.
Ravindra Negi
So, I think that’s a larger broader level question and I think you know best handled once either we have a one-on-one connect and I can then take you through what’s been the strategy in action, what are the value-adds that we’ve done on it and how that strategy is playing out. Some bit of it is getting reflected in our results, some bit I’ve articulated in our conversation, some bit is in the opening remarks, I said how we are now focusing on premiumization, not just in fan but across some bit is also work-in progress are you now focused on switch gears and wires, giving the shape of a business unit, getting leaders there. Those are the things that are happening, but obviously, a larger debate and a larger conversation we can do if we set-up a call.
Natasha Jain
Great. Sure, sir. That I will. Thank you so much, sir. And all the very best.
Ravindra Negi
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Dhruv Jain. Please go-ahead.
Dhruv Jain
Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, two questions. One is that the industry has seen a sort of prolonged deterioration in consumer lighting realization. Just wanted your take on it, how long do you think this will sort of continue and any early signs that it starts to turn?
Ravindra Negi
Thanks, and thanks for getting a question on lighting. Somewhere I always feel that all of us kind of miss that lighting as a great — you know, it is a great category and India is a underlit country and obviously there is — as we speak, there are number of lighting touch points in a house which are growing and from — if you were to look 10, 15 years back to now, the kind of lighting solutions that we have are very different.
When we look at pricing erosion, I think we must first break that whole lighting business into three distinct parts. One is — one part is which is commoditized. So your bulbs and battles are getting commoditized. The other is the value-add. And the third is the B2B and a tinder business. The B2B tinder business is getting a great tailwind of infrastructure development that’s happening across. There is value-add which the consumer is now looking at saying, look, what part of my house I want to highlight and how do I highlight? Those are the solutions which were not there 10 years back and which are now there.
The one part, which is the basic commoditized bulbs and batons, those are the ones which are under price erosion. And there is some bit of price erosion, which is happening even on the value-add side. But if you play the mix well, you will be able to handle the headwinds. But yes, there is price headwinds which are there, price erosions which are there and hopefully, there’ll be some more discipline that will come out in the industry and we will see some slowdown in the price erosions in the to get market-share. I hope some of the new entrants as well as the existing players are do not keep discounting as we move forward?
Dhruv Jain
Sir, if you could just speak about what’s the kind of revenue-share in your lighting segment pertains to the B2B lighting. I think that’s been growing lot faster for you.
Ravindra Negi
Yeah. So B2B has been growing faster. Our current split between a B2C and a B2B is about 80-20. Ideally, we would want it to move-up, but that’s where we are and we are building both the sides of the business together and that’s what is reflecting in our growth numbers and our gains, both in B2B and B2C side. B2C side, we measure in terms of our market shares from a third-party. We’ve seen we are gaining market-share there. Our growth rates are better than the industry. B2B, some bit of base effect also, but some bit of good infrastructure projects and getting a foothold in some of the facade business is what is helping us.
Dhruv Jain
Sure, sir. Thanks. Thanks so much.
Ravindra Negi
Thanks, Rob.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants. If you wish to register for a question, please press and one on your touchstone phone. The next question comes from Shreyash Sahoo [Phonetic] from an individual investor. Please go-ahead.
Shreyash Sahoo
Hi, good evening. Congratulations on a great set of numbers.
Ravindra Negi
Yeah, thanks. Yeah, we can hear you. Please go-ahead.
Shreyash Sahoo
Yeah. I wanted to understand, you know, with the wires BU coming in, are you all cat — looking at significantly looking at a sizable business in the wires category and the way forward that you have for that particular BU that’s wires and switches and switch gears?
Ravindra Negi
So, thanks for the question. And we definitely see potential in the wires business. We’ve got our BU ahead joining us now. How much do we see, what’s the rollout? What all could be the possible way forward strategies, we’ll take some time to come back. But definitely, we see and we’ve been in the business very small. We’ve tested the waters. We’ve been going through our learning curve on it, it and we will first get our investments on the thought and structure then and then we’ll come back and say how do we see and what kind of our growth opportunities and market-share opportunities that we see here. So give us some time before we answer that.
Operator
Participants you may press and one to ask a question. The next question comes from Rahul Agarwal from Ikigai Asset Management. Please go-ahead.
Rahul Agarwal
Yeah, hi, good evening, team. Sir, one question I had was on the people hiring. I think broadly are we done with it or there are certain positions still to be filled up?
Ravindra Negi
Rahul, hi, thanks for the question and thanks for you know asking this. So we have more or less, there are couple of positions which are still there, but largely from an overall structure perspective, we have a leadership team which is there and there are couple of positions which we need to look at it. But for us to start leveraging the assets that we have, we have sizable team enough to deliver that. If that gives you a comfort.
Rahul Agarwal
All right. Would you like to just highlight what positions are you talking about here, which are left as you heads or something else?
Ravindra Negi
A round of this, we will — I can check and then I’ll ask to connect with you and do one-on-one.
Rahul Agarwal
Sure. And one just a clarification, the consultant who was involved into advising us. Is that contract done and are we hiring them, rehiring them again? Any thoughts on…
Ravindra Negi
That was done and that was done in-quarter one.
Rahul Agarwal
Right, so there is no new reappointment, right?
Ravindra Negi
Not as of now, Rahul.
Rahul Agarwal
Okay. All right. I get that. Thank you so much and good quarter, sir. Thank you.
Ravindra Negi
Thank you. Thank you all.
Operator
Thank you. Two participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next follow-up question comes from Viraj from SIMPL. Please go-ahead.
Viraj Kacharia
Yeah. I just had a follow-up to the previous participants question. So are there any payouts which are left or made in-quarter three? So it is a consultant we have.
Ravindra Negi
So Viraj, firstly, you know, these are questions that we don’t answer, but just to give a broader this thing, as I said, we’ve — the consulting project was over and out by quarter one. If that answers your question.
Viraj Kacharia
No, I’m trying to take it on one. Thank you.
Ravindra Negi
All right.
Operator
Thank you. Participants you may press star and 1 to ask a question thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Ravindra Negi
Thank you. Thank you everyone for coming on the call and thank you for your encouraging the wishes and questions. Thank you for the call.
Operator
Sorry to interrupt you. Sir, we have a last-minute registration question coming up.
Ravindra Negi
Okay. So happy to take that last question here.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from Madhur Rathi from Counter Cyclical Investments. Please go-ahead, sir.
Madhur Rathi
Sir, I’m trying to understand I’m new to the company, so please pardon my ignorance, but I can see that our operating margins have reduced from around 11% in FY ’21 to around 6%, 7% now. So now what is the reason for this, sir? Has the product mix changed? Has there been basically realization degrowth, have the raw-material prices gone up or sir, any combination thereof or some or so maybe the competition has intensified in the market. So what exactly is the reason for the decline in margin? And sir, going-forward, when do you foresee our margins again returning to double-digits in future?
Ravindra Negi
So Madhur, I think you’ve picked-up a margin at one point of time in the last five years. And I think since you said you’re looking at the category for the first time, I think if you look at the larger industry, I think at an industry level, there’s been a little bit of margin that’s come down. But you picked-up one point and said that we were at 11%. Yes, definitely the ambition is to touch the double-digits. We’ve moved down and this was multiple reasons for it. But we’ve also now build it up and all our strategies of premiumization, focusing on our lighting business, building up the right portfolio in France is helping us inch back towards the earlier levels.
Madhur Rathi
By when can we expect double-digit margins, is it fair to expect by FY ’26 next year?
Ravindra Negi
So what is the guidance on this is that we’ve now — the first step that we always said was saying, let’s get our gross margins in our control, we had dropped on gross margins. We’ve now moved to a 31% to 33% range. We definitely see 100 basis-point improvement on that range also. We should look at 30% to 34% and that will slow-down. Our first task is to say, how do we get operating leverage from a 7.5% EBITDA margins to slightly up and consolidate that range and then we look at inching closer towards a double-digit will take time just four months, four quarters, we should definitely see in some high-single-digits this operating EBITDA margin.
Madhur Rathi
Right, sir. And sir, also if you could give us some idea about the top-line growth that sir, any target that you are working on from INR3,000 crore trailing 12-month revenue, sir, when in your judgment, can we reach INR5,000 crores or at what rate do you think we can grow, sir, is 15% CAGR kind of growth, is it possible or sir, what are your thoughts on the top-line growth?
Ravindra Negi
Well, we don’t give a forward-looking guidelines there, but definitely we will come back and by March and April, we will give you a three-year plan and saying how are we trying to look at the business from the three-year perspective. Our current delivery has been saying how do we grow faster than the industry and that’s what we’ve been driving and saying, our growth are faster than the industry. As far as for three year plan, we will be sharing with all of you by April, May what we can plan.
Madhur Rathi
Great, sir. Thank you very much and best of luck.
Ravindra Negi
Thank you, and thank you everyone for coming on the call.
Operator
Thank you. On behalf of Orient Electric, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.