NIRLON LTD (NSE: NIRLON) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 21, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Rahul V. Sagar — Chief Executive Officer & Executive Director
Manish B Parikh — Chief Financial Officer and VP of Finance
Ashish Bharadia — VP, Business Development
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Purvangi Jain — Analyst
Arun Malhotra — Analyst
Dilip Jain — Analyst
Satinder Singh Bedi — Analyst
Harshit Jain — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
It Sam. Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4 and FY25 conference call of Nilon Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Purwangi Jain from Velom Advisors. Thank you. And over to you, ma’ am.
Purvangi Jain — Analyst
Good afternoon everyone. My name is Pravangi Jain from Valorum Advisors. We represent the investor relations for Nilon Limited. On behalf of the company, I would like to thank you all for participating in the company’s earnings call for the fourth quarter and financial year 2025. Before we begin, let me mention a short cautionary statement. Some of the statements made in today’s earnings call may be forward looking in nature. Such forward looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results to differ from those anticipated. Such statements are based on management’s belief as well as assumptions made by and information currently available to the management.
Audiences are cautioned not to place any undue reliance on these forward looking statements in making any investment decisions. The purpose of today’s earnings call is purely to educate and bring awareness about the company’s fundamental business and financial quarter under review. Now let me introduce you to the management participating with us in today’s earnings call and hand it over to them for their opening remarks. We have with us Mr. Rahul B. Sagar, Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director. Mr. Manish B. Pare, Chief Financial Officer, BP Finance. Mr. Jasmine K. Bhavsar, Company Secretary Vice President Legal and compliance officer and Mr.
Ashish Bharadia, VP, Business Development and Investor Relations, Nilan Management Services Private Limited. Without any delay, I request Mr. Rahul Sagar to start with his opening remarks. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Rahul V. Sagar — Chief Executive Officer & Executive Director
Thank you. Thank you. It is a pleasure to welcome you all to our earnings conference for the fourth quarter and full year FY 2025. Now let me first take you through the financial performance of the company. For the fourth quarter the company reported a total income of rupees 161 crores which grew by 4% year on year. The EBITDA was reported at rupees 126 crores representing a 2% growth year on year. EBITDA margins were about 78.32%. Profit after tax for the quarter stood at around rupees 54 crores which also grew by 5% year on year while PAT margins reported at 33.29%.
For the financial year 2025, the company reported a total income of approximately rupees 645 crores, a growth of 6% year on year. EBITDA stood at 512 crores, an increase of 6% year on year and EBITDA margins stood at 79.33%. Profit after tax was rupees 218 crores and an increase of 6% year on Year and representing a PAT margin of 33.83%. On the operational front, the average occupancy rate for the company as a whole Pricing NKP and Milan house stood at 98.2% for the fourth quarter of the financial year 2025. As of 31 March 2025, approximately 92,000 square feet at NKP and 6,200 square feet at Mild on house for vacant office.
Vacant area approximately 76,000 square feet has been licensed by BNP and the balance approximately 15,000 square feet are under advanced discussions. NTT has renewed approximately 50,000 square feet of the space it occupies at NKP of the approximately 316,000 square feet coming up for renewal in 2526. We have already finalized terms for re licensing 136,000 square feet and the balance approximately 147,000 square feet is under advance. After this, we conclude our opening remarks and open the floor to questions. Thank you. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch. Don’t telephone if you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. A reminder to all participants. If you wish to ask any question, you may press star and 1. We have our first question from line off Malhotra from Capgro Capital Advisors.
Please go ahead.
Arun Malhotra
Yeah, good afternoon. I think this is just one standard question which we keep on asking every quarter. What is the status on the restructuring which we have proposed? Where are we in the process? Any regulatory clearance? Are we waiting? What are we waiting for?
Rahul V. Sagar
Okay, so yes, we have been asked this question before. Basically we’d like to really state that at this point we have nothing further to really add, nothing significant to say which we can tell you at this point. And then when we do a process we Will keep you posted. But there’s nothing really significant to say.
Arun Malhotra
Yeah, yeah, that’s the most frustrating part because this has been going for last 8, 10, 12 quarters, like 2, 3 years. And every time we hear the same answer that we have nothing to say in that front, where are we stuck? Why is the management, maybe the GIC not present on the calls and answering this question for the minority shareholders?
Rahul V. Sagar
Yeah, I mean unfortunately that’s not something I can answer. We can clearly say that as and when we have something significant to say, we will. Of course.
Arun Malhotra
That’S an operation of the minority shareholder rights that we do not know what is going to happen to our investment. You know, where are we headed? Why are we taking paying higher taxes? There’s a tax leakage. Who is responsible for all this? All these questions need to be answered. You know, at least maybe if you don’t want to answer in a call, the deals, the DLC management can, you know, come out with a memo highlighting what their stand is especially on the tax part, you know, so there’s definitely a tax loss to all the shareholders and DLC is the biggest shareholder.
I don’t know, they being the nri, they being the foreign status, how does that impact them? But as a minority shareholder it does impact us.
Rahul V. Sagar
Yes, the points are appreciated and definitely been taken on record. We will take your suggestions on record. Your points are appreciated and yeah, thank you. Your point, I definitely appreciate it.
Arun Malhotra
I appreciate. Rahul, these, these, these, you know, your stance. But what do we, what do we, where do we go from here? Do we as a minority shareholder, do we have any hope from the management? We are, we just keep sitting or we just exit the company. There is no response from them, you know, from the management. I don’t know. We are really frustrated, you know.
operator
Sorry to interrupt. So may please request you to rejoin the queue.
Arun Malhotra
Sure, sure.
Rahul V. Sagar
Okay. Thank you though. Thank you. Thank you. Sorry. Thank you.
Arun Malhotra
Yeah.
operator
I reminded to all participants, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and 1. We have our next question from the line of Dilit Jain from Ayush Capital. Please go ahead.
Dilip Jain
Yeah. Am I audible, Rahul?
Rahul V. Sagar
Yeah, yeah. How are you?
Dilip Jain
So given that the advanced tax deadline of June 15 for the current fiscal is upcoming, are you going to compute and pay advanced taxes as per the old tax regime or as per the new tax regime?
Rahul V. Sagar
So currently. Hi. Hi. At this point with regards to ranch, we feel that the TDR should be enough to take care of it. And there’s no real concrete plan to change anything significantly as of now.
Dilip Jain
So are we going to stick to the old tax regime despite our max credit getting completely exhausted on the 31st of March as you mentioned in the last con call? So currently we have exhausted all the max credits. Right?
Rahul V. Sagar
Yeah. We have already answered this question earlier but at this time we can’t comment on this question.
Ashish Bharadia
On the mat credit. We will largely be using it for FY25.
Dilip Jain
Okay.
Ashish Bharadia
We have to decide before the time of filing of the return.
Dilip Jain
I know, I know you, you, I know you mentioned, you mentioned that, but aren’t we supposed to pay advanced taxes going through Q1, Q2, Q3 and Q4 of FY26?
Manish B Parikh
In our case basis, the TDS that get deducted don’t really have much advance. That needs to be paid.
Dilip Jain
Okay, okay. So if, if we decide to stick to the old tax regime, it’s going to lead to a higher cash out goal. Right. So I mean is there any rationale that is coming from ZIC as to what kind of restructuring we are looking forward to and you know, paying this extra cash to the government?
Ashish Bharadia
As of now, it is not yet been decided whether it will be, you know, the decision will be taken by the date of filing of the returns.
Dilip Jain
So that is going to be, that is going to be next, next year of September. Right. As you mentioned in the last phone call for this fiscal. Okay. So so we have another 12, 13 months. 15. 15 months for that. 15, 16.
Manish B Parikh
Yes,
Rahul V. Sagar
yes. yes
Dilip Jain
Okay. So so until, until that time we are open to any kind of restructuring because we still technically stay in the old tax regime. Right?
Rahul V. Sagar
Yeah. As an end we have anything significant which is different from what we’re doing now, we will of course tell you.
Dilip Jain
Okay. Okay, sir, so my next question is NTT and Barclays renewal and their interest. So what kind of rates per square foot per month are we looking at in this case?
Rahul V. Sagar
Yeah. So basically we can say that the range for NTP and Barclays is approximately. In the range of approximately, say 1174 to 185 in.
Dilip Jain
How much sir 170
Rahul V. Sagar
That is in the range of approximately 174 to 185.
Dilip Jain
Okay. Okay. Okay. And this is all at 80% efficiency, right?
Rahul V. Sagar
Yes.
Dilip Jain
Okay. Okay. So. So and I had another question. So Morgan Stanley supposed is supposed to vacate a large tract, you know, in the coming, in this current fiscal, in the coming months. So I wanted to understand how much moratorium for furniture does the new tenant get, you know, before they are rent start?
Rahul V. Sagar
Yeah. So each case is very, each case is not the same. If there’s no fixed period as such. Every license, Every license, with every license either the terms are not exactly the same, but we can say that we believe in this case and in most of the cases the actual gap between the vacating of Morgan Stanley and the new licensee coming in well for Approximately, I think 177,000 is coming due on the, approximately on the 18th of June. But we can say that the time period, it’s not very significant. Mr. Jen, from what some of some part of that phase we have has been signed.
Some part is supposed to be signed but advances are very, but the discussions are highly advanced. But what we can say is that the immediate transition, the periods are not extensively long. It’s fairly efficient in that, in that regard and whatever spread out more over the five year term, you know.
Dilip Jain
Okay, okay. So we can assume three or four months of moratorium in general. Is that a fair assumption on an overall basis for various
Rahul V. Sagar
assumption. You must know, I mean in a way it can be, it can be four months, it can be five.
Dilip Jain
I know, I know, I know.
Rahul V. Sagar
But it’s not usually something that happens concurrently after the existing license. It basically can happen over a period of, over a period of the license which is sometimes approximately five years. So approximately it’s over 60 months. It’s usually not happening concurrently.
Dilip Jain
All of it won’t happen at once. So it’s going to be like bits and pieces spread over all through.
Rahul V. Sagar
Right. Over different fiscal years.
Dilip Jain
I’m sorry,
Rahul V. Sagar
spread over different years?
Dilip Jain
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rahul V. Sagar
Spread over different license fees also over approximately five years.
Dilip Jain
I understand. So over the last two years I’ve seen a top line that is rental collections in our case go up by about, you know, mid teens, about 12, 13% growth in two years. So you know, it’s for us shareholders we would like to know like based on your forecasting, based on the pricing for the new agreements and based on the legacy contract, do you envisage like a high single digit top line growth in this fiscal as compared to the last year or are we looking at 4, 5% or are we looking at.
Rahul V. Sagar
We don’t want to speculate on the future but if you really look at this industry, if you look at the business, if you look at the industry, everything is fairly consistent. The escalations, whether they are every three years or whether they are now in some cases annual are also fairly consistent. So I don’t want to speculate on a number with regard to growth, but if you can see that consistently most of, the, most of the licenses are fairly consistent whether it’s 3 year growth or annual growth etc. Etc. So in that regard I think we will, we should hopefully not have from the agreed licenses.
So hopefully things will progress. As for the licenses signed and proposed to be signed.
Dilip Jain
Okay. So we are looking at more of a linear consistent growth. If I look at the historical trend for rental.
Rahul V. Sagar
That really that depends how you want to classify. We can only say that we’ll go exactly as for the licenses and you can see what has happened in the past which should. I mean you can make your conclusions from what happened in the past with regard to the numbers. Yeah, yeah.
Dilip Jain
Okay. Okay. And sir, there’s a question on the balance sheet. So we have a capital work in progress as of 3132025 and that’s of 9 clause. So could you please throw some light on what this is?
Manish B Parikh
These are some of the miscellaneous capex that we have to incur to maintain the complex.
Dilip Jain
Okay.
Manish B Parikh
Some of these work are still in progress.
Dilip Jain
So okay, so this is, this is all just maintenance cap, it’s nothing more than that,
Manish B Parikh
Correct? Correct.
Dilip Jain
Okay. And, and so there’s one more entry that I wanted to discuss. The cash and cash equivalents they have gone up from 54 to 164 crores as of 313 2025. So is that, is there any reason why we are keeping so much cash on the balance sheet? I mean we could, you know, technically we could prepay loans.
Manish B Parikh
This cash will be distributed by way of a dividend to shareholders this meeting.
Dilip Jain
No, exactly, exactly. That was my question. So if you say that the dividend outgo is going to come in October, right. And that is 11 rupees per share, that is going to be about 99 crores. Right. And what we have is about 165 crores. By the end of H1 we are going to have 110 crores of fat, right. For this, for this H1 or H1 of this fiscal. And then we have accumulated depreciation of 30 crores. So we’d have 140 crores coming in in the next six months and then we beyond that we have 160 crores of cash on the balance sheet.
So if I forecast the balance sheet for H1 that is of you know, Q2 ending, we are going to sit with 300 crores of cash of which you are going to distribute just 99 crores. So that was my question. I mean why are we keeping so much cash on the balance sheet?
Rahul V. Sagar
Your point is? Notice. Notice sir.
Dilip Jain
But could you. Yes. Could you let me know like what are the options that we have? Like put them in a nifty or use it for lylon house or give a special dividend of the same. I mean. I mean something. Right.
Rahul V. Sagar
We can let you know. At this point in time, apart from the 11 rupees which we have discussed, there is nothing significant to seriously.
Dilip Jain
So this cat is just going to lie around on the balance for no reason?
Rahul V. Sagar
We have invested this into fixed deposits. We are earning interest on it and right now we have no proposal to repay the loan or anything. So that’s why it is lying in the books.
Dilip Jain
Any development on loan house?
Rahul V. Sagar
Nothing significant.
Dilip Jain
Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you, sir. My best.
Rahul V. Sagar
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for your.
Manish B Parikh
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and 1. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, you may press star and 1. We have our next question from the line of Satyinder Singh Bedi from E on Infotech limited. Please go ahead.
Satinder Singh Bedi
Yes, good afternoon gentlemen. Thanks for the opportunity. What’s the exit rate of interest as of 31st of March 25th? And what is the markup? Is it repo length and what is the markup?
Manish B Parikh
Interest rate as on March is around 8%.
Satinder Singh Bedi
Okay. Cancer. It is a repo linked or is it MCMR linked?
Ashish Bharadia
No, it’s linked to 1 month T bill.
Satinder Singh Bedi
Okay, okay, okay. It’s 1 month T bill linked. Okay. With a quarterly reset. Is it right? Is it a quarterly reset?
Unidentified Speaker
Monthly reset.
Manish B Parikh
Monthly.
Satinder Singh Bedi
Okay, monthly. Okay sir. And what is the net credit left as of 31st of March 25th?
Manish B Parikh
Entirely utilized.
Satinder Singh Bedi
Entirely utilized. Okay, okay, okay sir. And what is the valuation arrived at? So. So we would have got a fair valuation of. Of the investment properties done as of 31st of March 25th. So what is the value figure for that meant?
Rahul V. Sagar
Can you say that again? What is the valuation.
Satinder Singh Bedi
The fair valuation or fair value of investment properties as of 31st of March 25th? We get this done as an annual exercise. Okay. So every 31st of March
Rahul V. Sagar
putting that. In the annual report.
Satinder Singh Bedi
Okay, okay. But that would already be the. Otherwise the valuation would already have been done. No.
Rahul V. Sagar
No, we’ll just put it, whatever it is, it will be in the
Manish B Parikh
annual report.
Satinder Singh Bedi
Okay, okay. Okay. I would like to urge you. So the same issue is copyrighted. Also I would like to urge you to do something about the structure because the current structure is highly tax inefficient. So we are talking of hundred rupees of kind of Distributable income on which at the company level we are suffering now a 35% tax. So that leaves us with 65 and then you pay out the rest of it all in the form of dividend and we suffer rate of again about 35%. 30% plus plus. Okay. That leaves only a lot of the hundred rupees of distributable income.
When you apply two cuts of 35%, that leads less than 50% with us. Now the majority shareholder, which is GIC, might not be taking these similar hit because of their status as a foreign investor. They might be taking a hit of about probably 10% on the dividend under the double taxation treaty. So the minority shareholders are getting very badly hit because of this 35% on dividends. So kindly do something about the structure. Like others have mentioned, it’s been going on for a long time. So that’s the feedback we want you to convey to the minority shareholder.
We don’t have access to them directly, so kindly do keep this in mind. It’s most tax inefficient. Okay. And as management, you are committed to maximization of shareholder wealth. So this will not happen in case we have such an inefficient structure. So kindly do convey that. Finally, one housekeeping. So. This quarter, while the occupancy has dropped by about 1% and the revenue from operation has gone down by about 3% or thereabouts. Okay, anything to read in this? Okay, as to.
Rahul V. Sagar
This is basically has to do with the transition from Morgan family to the new licensees in some cases or in one, one case there was a gap of approximately two months and that would probably be the reason.
Satinder Singh Bedi
Okay, okay, okay, okay. Fine, fine. Okay, so that is account for rental income on an accrual basis or is it lease equalization? So how do we kind of address this? Do we apply MDS116. Okay. Where we even out the income over the period of the lease or so what is the standard we follow for. This
Manish B Parikh
over the last period of the life?
Satinder Singh Bedi
Okay, okay, okay, fine.
Rahul V. Sagar
Yeah. Okay.
Satinder Singh Bedi
Yeah, so I get it. So you’re saying the premises was vacant and not earning rent for a certain period of time and thereafter you equalize the rent over the lease period? Okay,
Manish B Parikh
yes,
Ashish Bharadia
over the lock in period. Not the entire lease period.
Satinder Singh Bedi
Okay, okay, fine. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Rahul V. Sagar
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and 1. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, you may press Star and one on your Touchstone phone. We have our next question from the line of Harshit from Slayer Investments. Please go ahead. Hello, Harshit, are you there?
Harshit Jain
Yes, sir. Very good afternoon, sir.
Rahul V. Sagar
Good afternoon.
Harshit Jain
Yeah, I just have two questions, sir. First of all, as we have requested for more than 12 quarters for any BOC’s key person to attend any of the calls. But I don’t think you have accepted our request. But no issues. We just have two questions. I request you to kindly replay on those please. Sir, the first question is on the Milan house, sir. Has there any development in neighborhoods?
Rahul V. Sagar
Okay. And the second question.
Harshit Jain
Has the tenants approved here
Rahul V. Sagar
Okay, no. That we have nothing significant to say from Niran house at this point.
Harshit Jain
Okay. Okay, sir. So my next question is. Sir, we are very clear that we don’t want to do any expansion. Despite of this, we have declared a dividend of only 10 rupees. That is one pacer is 11 rupees. As another shareholder has clearly mentioned, we will be having an excess cash of rupees 300 crore by end of this year. What is the purpose of this extra cash? Sir, I request you to finally answer these two questions. Sir. GIC is also not coming in any of the concord or even in the region. No problem, sir. So I know they will be very busy. But I request you kindly. You’re the key person of gic, I believe. And I request you to reply these questions. Very humble request to you, sir.
Rahul V. Sagar
Okay, so we will take into account personal balances. And in future meetings we will of course update you when company decides on the dividend. But apart from that there’s nothing really significant to say. With regard with regards to uses of the surplus cash. As in when there is a dividend. We have been updating you in the past and we will continue to do that.
Harshit Jain
Sir. But this kind of cache has never been generated, sir.
Rahul V. Sagar
Okay.
Harshit Jain
Am I audible, sir?
Rahul V. Sagar
Yes, you are. Yes, you are. Yes, you are.
operator
Yes, Aisha, we can hear you.
Harshit Jain
Yeah. So? So what? How are we going to use this cash? It has never been generated in our history.
Rahul V. Sagar
I said well, there’s anything significant to say in this regard, of course we will be letting you know.
Harshit Jain
We have been requesting you for just a 3% of GIC from 12 quarters. You have not. You have not been able to do that. We are asking you one question was how will we be using this cash? You’re not deploying on that. For how? Whom should we go and ask the question? Sir,
Rahul V. Sagar
Noted Noted
Harshit Jain
every time. My questions have been noted but never been answered. And you have noticed from past four or five concourse I have not attended any of your concord. Because only my questions are getting noted and not replied on.
Rahul V. Sagar
Okay. Okay. When there’s anything we will let you know.
Harshit Jain
So by when can I expect a call from you sir or a reply from you Sir? From past 12 quarters I have not got any reply from your end. So at least now can I ask you time sir?
Rahul V. Sagar
Can’t really make a comment on that. Thank you.
Harshit Jain
Okay. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants. If you wish to ask a question, you may press star and 1. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, you may press star and 1. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, you may press star and 1. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Rahul Sagar from Nehlon Limited for closing comments.
Rahul V. Sagar
Thank you. Thank you all for participating in this earnings con call. I hope we were able to answer your questions satisfactorily and at the same time offer insights into our business. If you have any further questions or would like to know more about the company, please reach out to our investor relations manager at Vellaram Advisors. Thank you once again on behalf of all of us here in the Zoom and the management, Ashish and Manish as well. Thank you.
Manish B Parikh
Thank you.
Rahul V. Sagar
Thank you.
operator
Thank you on behalf of Nil Unlimited. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.