NCC Limited (NSE: NCC) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 16, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Neerad Sharma — Head Strategy & Investor Relations
Sanjay Pusarla — Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer
R.S. Raju — Director of Projects
Analysts:
Vaibhav Shah — Analyst
Shravan Shah — Analyst
Mohit Kumar — Analyst
Prithvi Raj — Analyst
Sarvesh Gupta — Analyst
Anupam Gupta — Analyst
Parvez Qazi — Analyst
Ankita Shah — Analyst
Parth Thakkar — Analyst
Jainam Jain — Analyst
Saket Kapoor — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the NCC Limited 4Q and FY ’25 Earnings Call hosted by JM Financial Institutional Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr Shah from JM Financial Institutional Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Vaibhav Shah — Analyst
Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of JM Financial, I welcome everybody to 4Q and FY ’25 earnings Conference call of Limited. We have from the management today Mr RS Raju, Director of Projects; Mr Sanjay Pusserla, Executive Vice-President; and Sriniraj Sharma, Head, Strategy and Investor Relations.
Now I hand over the call to the management for opening remarks, post which we can do the Q&A session. Over to you, sir.
Neerad Sharma — Head Strategy & Investor Relations
Thank you very much,. Very good morning, everyone. This is Nira at the very outset, I thank each of you for taking out time to attend this interactive meeting. I have with me my colleagues, Mr Raju, Director of Projects; and Mr Sanjay Pussarla, CFO. Yesterday, we have declared our audited financial results for the 4th-quarter and for the financial year 2024 ’25. Hope you had an opportunity to download and study the results and the investors presentation uploaded on our website and shared with the stock exchanges.
Before I begin this interactive meeting, I will read-out a very brief disclaimer. You may read a detailed disclaimer mentioned, highlighted in our investors presentation. This presentation may contain certain forward-looking statements concerning NCC’s future business prospects and business profitability, which are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties and the actual results could materially differ from those in such forward-looking statements. End-of-the disclaimer.
This interaction is broadly divided into three parts. In the first part, I will talk about a brief overview of the business environment, our prospects and also an update on the guidance. In the second part, our CFO will give a brief about the financial performance of the company for the 4th-quarter and for the financial year ’25. In the third and last part, we will attend to answer all your questions and clarifications. We are happy to share with you the fact that we have achieved the revised guidance shared with you in the last earnings call. We are sitting at the highest-ever order book of INR71,568 crore and in the financial year FY ’25, we have booked orders worth INR32,88 crore, which is about 50% more than the upper band of our guidance shared with you.
The revenue on a standalone basis increased by 5%, which is in-line with the guidance that we have shared with the Street. The EBITDA margin was 9.1%, which is closely in-line with the guidance that we have shared with you. For the FY ’26, that is the current financial year, we are seeing a healthy pipeline of future projects. We have a prospective pipeline of about INR2.55 lakh crores and we are pleased to share with you a guidance of INR22,000 crores to INR25,000 crore for the order inflow. I repeat. The order inflow guidance for the FY ’26 is INR22,000 crores to INR25,000 crore. The revenue growth of 10% and EBITDA margin between 9% to 9.25%.
Now I will very briefly touch upon a few of our large divisions. In our Buildings and Transportation division, we continue to see good traction and healthy pipeline of projects. We have an order book of INR22,440 crore. I repeat, 22,440 crores in the buildings division, which is about 31% of our total order book. In the transportation — the transportation division, we have an order book of INR17,929 crores, which is about 25% of our total order book.
The third large division that we have is electrical T&D. Order book as of end of March is INR6,66 crore, let me remit, INR16,66 crore as of 31st March, which is about 23% of our order book. The order book in the irrigation division is INR4,189 crore. I repeat INR4,189 crores, which is about 6% of our order book. In our water division, we have an order book of INR4,782 crores, which is 7% of our order book. Similarly, the order book in our mining division is INR5,555 crore, which is about 8% of our total order book.
Now I will hand over to our CFO with a request to cover the detailed financial performance of the company. Over to you, Mr.
Sanjay Pusarla — Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer
Good morning, everyone. This is Sanjay, CFO from Limited. I am pleased to announce the financial results for Q4 of FY ’25 and also for the year ending March ’25. My announcement will be in the order of order book, revenue profitability, debt movement and some of the important balance sheet items.
The order book. Our order book stands at INR71,568 crores as at the end of March ’25 As you are aware, the order book at the beginning of the year stood at INR60,437 crores and orders received during the 12-month period is INR32,88 crores, which is the highest orders they ever received in a financial year. And in Q4, we received orders around INR19,280 crores. After execution of INR21,256 crores have worked during the 12 months, the order book stands at INR71,568 crores.
Coming to the revenues standalone. Turnover reported in Q4 is INR5,376 crores as against turnover of 5,446 crores in the previous year. During the 12 months, turnover is INR19,205 crores as against INR18,314 crores, which is reported in the previous 12 months. This year record a 5% growth over the previous year. Coming to the standalone, turnover reported in Q4 is INR6,131 crores, again, the turnover of INR6,485 crores in the previous year. During the 12 months, the turnover is INR22,199 crores as against INR20,845 crores, showing a growth of around 7%.
Coming to the profitability, standalone. We achieved EBITDA margin of 9.21% for Q4 as against 9.36% of the corresponding quarter of the previous year. And for the 12 months of the financial year ’25, we achieved EBITDA of 9.09% as against 9% in 12 months of the previous year. PBT, we achieved 6.2% and PAT we achieved 3.9% — 94% in the current quarter, that is Q4, as against PBT of 6.29% and PAT of 3.41% of the corresponding period.
Coming with the consolidated profitability. We achieved EBITDA of 9.07% and PBT of 5.95% and PAT of 4.28% in the current quarter, that is Q4 as against EBITDA of 8.49%, PBT of 5.97% and PAT of 3.66%. Coming to the debt moment. The debt at the beginning of the year stood at INR105 crores and net-debt after cash-and-cash equivalent standing at INR517 crores. At the end-of-quarter four, it stood at INR1,484 crores and net-debt of INR210 crores. And at the end-of-quarter three, the same debt was INR2,415 crores and net-debt was INR2,344 crores. That means the net-debt from Q3 ending to Q4 is reduced from INR2,344 crores to INR710 crores. There is a decrease in debt by INR931 crores. The debt-equity ratio stands at 0.2% at the end of Q4 as against 0.33 at the end of Q3 and 0.15% at the end of March 2024. Working capital. Working capital excluding cash and margin money deposits. At the end of Q4, it stands at INR4,374 crores, which is 17% of the turnover.
In terms of working capital days, it counts for 77 days. Us. That is receivables. Outstanding at the end of Q4 has reduced from INR3,142 crores to INR3,098 crores and the number of days also decreased from 74 days to 65 days in the current quarter and unbilled revenue. It stands at INR5,937 crores, which is 31% for Q4 as against INR6,151 crores, which is 33% at Q3 ending. Coming to the mobilization advances. The mobilization advances stood at INR2,098 crores as against INR1,947 crores in Q4, decreased by INR120 crores. It is standing at 11% of the turnover. Of these mobilization advances, 79% are interest-bearing and 21% are interest-free. The average interest-rate works out to 9.52% on these mobilization advances which are interest-bearing.
Coming to the capex, we have incurred a capex of INR305 crores in the current financial year as against the budgeted capex of INR250 crores for the regular projects. So as far as the dividend is concerned, this year, it was decided to declare a dividend of 110%, which will be INR20 per share. The total amount of outflow will be INR139 crores on this account. And coming to the investor related ratios, the RO stands at 14.61% as against 14.04% at the financial year ’24 end and EPA stands at INR12 as at the end of Q4 by 10.10 in the last year.
I think with this, I end my presentation. We can invite the questions
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may read star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles you. We take the first question from the line of Shraman Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go-ahead. Thank you, sir. Sir, the first question is on the revenue. So though we have achieved our revised guidance for FY ‘25%, 5% growth, but compared to the original where we were looking at 15% and now we are seeing a 10% growth in FY ’26, don’t you think that this is on the lower side given the kind of the order inflow that we have received, which is even higher than what we were looking at in FY ’25
Neerad Sharma
MR. Shah, good morning.
Shravan Shah
Good morning, sir.
Neerad Sharma
I think you’re absolutely right. The last year, we had given — guided the market for about 15% growth, but we have been able to deliver only 5% growth, right? So when we talk about 10% growth for FY ’26, there is a handsome growth, right? Last year, we have grown at 5% in that range and now we are talking about 10%. So that’s a growth. Now, I mean, let us start — I mean, I will also try to dig a bit deeper. This is also a reflection on how the ability of our clients to mobilize, you know to make the payments on-time. This is a statement also on the uncertain environment that we are operating in primarily depend — this is dependent on the timely payments. It is not only about the execution. At the same time, we have to be cognizant of the fact that how much working capital we are committing. So this is also a reflection on the ability of our clients to mobilize, make timely payments. So this is the reason we have shared this guidance with you. Should there be any change going-forward, we would be very happy to come to you and update you.
Shravan Shah
Got it. Second, sir, this order inflow of INR22,000 crore to INR25,000 crores that we are looking at in FY ’26. If you can clarify, I think last-time we were having INR8,000 crores INR10,000 crore as L1 orders. So how much L1 do we right now have? And if it is, does this include the INR22,000 crore to INR25,000 crore includes the L1 or are we looking at the fresh 22,000 crore to INR25,000 crores?
Neerad Sharma
See, your question has two-parts. Firstly, the — some of the L1s that we had talked about in the past got converted in firm orders and this is something that is reflective in our performance of INR32,88 crore order book. Some of some of those L1 projects, we hope will get converted in the coming quarters. As of now, we have an L1 project of about INR7,000 crore to INR8,000 crore.
Shravan Shah
Okay. Okay. Okay. So INR22 to INR25,000 crore includes the L1 of INR7,000 crores INR8,000 crores.
Neerad Sharma
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Shravan Shah
Okay, okay. Got it.
Neerad Sharma
Yeah. I need to see that any point of time, if you see, there will be project and there will be conversion from LVENT and the order. So it is a cycle, okay? It is not that L1 projects of the previous year will be taken in the last year order book and current year. It is a cycle, it comes to L1. Sometimes it gets matured into an order, sometimes it doesn’t get matured into an order. It is a cycle it happens every time.
Shravan Shah
Got it. Sir, a couple of data points, sir. Can you share the standalone order inflow for FY ’25 and returns on money and for capex for FY ’26.
Sanjay Pusarla
See the order inflow per standalone per regular INR32,88, the order inflow per standalone is INR29,588 crores, okay. And you ask for what else?
Shravan Shah
Retention money and the capex for FY ’26,
Sanjay Pusarla
The retention money as on 31st March ’25 is INR1,870 crores as against INR1,757 of the corresponding previous year. Sorry, INR1,505 of the corresponding previous year. And CapEx for FY ’26 is at INR750 crores.
Shravan Shah
Yeah. Yeah. And lastly, the loans and advances and investment in our subsidiaries and associates and associates
Sanjay Pusarla
So investment is INR1,065 crores as against INR1,033 crores and the loans is INR452 crores as against INR354 crores.
Shravan Shah
Okay. Thank you, sir and all the best.
Sanjay Pusarla
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Please go-ahead.
Mohit Kumar
Good morning, sir, and thanks for the opportunity. My first question is, again, I’m proving and going back to the revenue growth guidance. I think it looks a bit low. So does it mean that there are too many slow-moving orders in the book as of now? And is it the fact that the order which you received in the Q4 is just the PF and a Phase-2 contract. So what is the duration of the execution?,
Sanjay Pusarla
Three years?
Neerad Sharma
Three years. Three years is the capex time, the time to complete the project is three years.
Mohit Kumar
And, I slowing orders in the book, sir?
Sanjay Pusarla
It is not a question of orders for the guidance at 10%. It is a dependent as Mr said earlier. It is dependent on how the government take these infrastructure segment and how the payments are going to come and how the clients are going to cooperate in the case of execution. And also the projects which have come will have little gestation period. It’s not that immediately it gets converted after the order in this year. It will have a little gestation period. Considering all those things and we have also seen what happened in the previous year in the Del mission projects. So considering all these things, we gave the guidance of 10%.
Mohit Kumar
Understood, sir. My second question is, what is the Del Mission order book right now? And are we seeing an improvement in execution and payment?
Sanjay Pusarla
The payment is a little getting delayed, but otherwise the order books are for
R.S. Raju
About two-third of the projects were completed, one-third of the projects are still pending. You are aware that for the last seven, eight months, there is just no progress because of the delay in the payments by the client that is LGM of payment by the central government particularly. Yeah, as we received some part payment in the last two, three months, but still about INR1,000 crores is at
Sanjay Pusarla
INR1,500 crores
R.S. Raju
INR1,500 crores at two races from the projects.
Sanjay Pusarla
And the order book balance as on-date is INR4,300 crores.
Mohit Kumar
Understood. That’s very helpful. Sir, my last question, sir. How is the traction in smart meter execution? Have we — have we achieved any financial closure? If not, when do you think to achieve the financial closure and any guidance on the ordering or execution in F ’26 of the orders?
Sanjay Pusarla
In financial closure for the smart in the case of Ray that is already achieved in the last year itself and we have started drawing the load. In the case of Marathwada, the finance closure act to happen. We have received a term sheet from the lenders. We are at to go for the financial closure. And as you are aware that these projects in Maharashtra, they were slow-moving in the last year, but now we have got all the clearances to execute them and we are showing good progress in these projects, expecting a good turnover in the current year.
Mohit Kumar
Understood, sir. Thank you and best of luck, sir. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Raj from Unifi Capital. Please go-ahead.
Prithvi Raj
Sir, I just have a couple of questions. The first one is on the Maharashtra projects. I guess in the last couple of quarters, we have seen a delay with respect to execution. So how is the equity now are we seeing any uptick with respect to execution and the payment from the Maharashtra side?
Sanjay Pusarla
Yes. In the case of Maharashtra projects, we have seen — we have got even the instructions even from the government also that we can go-ahead with pace of the projects, increasing the pace of the project execution. And we have been doing it and all the tests everything have been completed. Now we have got a very good green signal from the government also from the client also to go aggressively on these projects already.
Prithvi Raj
Yeah okay. The second one is on Andhra Pradesh state capital projects. You obviously received a couple of projects in the last few months. Is there any more activity that is happening there and any more pending orders that you’re expecting or everything is done from the state capital side.
Sanjay Pusarla
From the state capital, you are aware that we have received a good number of orders for the infrastructure development also for construction of some residential blocks and also the High Court also. So these are the orders which we have received about INR9,000 crore INR9,500 crores orders are on-hand from the capital city. And as we see that the Chief Minister of Pradesh is announcing they end every day, some of the other project that he is announcing, but we do not know-how much more projects that will be announced in the near-future. But as of now, we have projects about INR9,09,500 crores and the work and execution at these sites is in good progress as we can see from the social media. And we also feel the same thing from the execution from our teams also that there is a lot of demand from the clients to execute the projects at a very fast pace.
Prithvi Raj
Okay. A final question on the debt number. So what’s the target for the end-of-the year? Do we expect a significant reduction in the debt number?
R.S. Raju
Yes. Now current year seen our debt is closed at about INR1,400 crores or so current year. And next year about 10% growth. So at the same time, we need to invest in the smart meter projects, smart meter projects. But we expect that debt stands around that one with an increase of INR30 crore to INR400 crores above the INR1,400 crores.
Prithvi Raj
Okay. And that’s all from my side, sir. Thanks.
R.S. Raju
Appreciate.
Operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Sarvesh Gupta from Maximal Capital. Please go-ahead
Sarvesh Gupta
Good morning, sir, and thank you for giving me the opportunity. Sir, first question is basically on the transportation and water verticals. So I think especially in transportation, we have seen that orders and new orders have been little bit slow to come by in the last five, six quarters. So how are we seeing this space now? And are you seeing any green shoots in terms of new order inflows, especially given the fact that last many quarters we have not seen anything.
And on-the-water side, I wanted to understand, excluding one, are you seeing some state government projects, etc which could be meaningful for the order interest.
Neerad Sharma
Thank you, Mr Gupta. As you are aware, the most of the projects that were awarded in last four, five years in-the-water space were primarily from this judgeable mission and as of last month I mean let me give you a little overview of this scheme. The scheme was announced in year 2019, the outlay from the central government was more than INR3,60,000 crore and they attempted to provide portable water connection to all the households. About 80% of the target has already been achieved.
So what remains to be provided portable water connection is less — about 20% of the households. So this is the update, this is the update on the Jal mission. And as you are aware, my colleague has already highlighted that there has been some slow movement in Jalivan mission projects across you know the companies. I mean everybody who has been working in this space had faced my payment delays, these kind of issues. So this is the update on the space at the — as we speak. But going-forward, you know, once the households are given portable water connection, naturally this will lead to lot of wastewater treatment plants, STP kind of projects. So we are quite hopeful that going-forward, going-forward, these two sub-verticals you should see some traction.
Sarvesh Gupta
And sir, on the transportation road.
Neerad Sharma
Transportation, we had a — I mean, healthy order book. We have been able to back good number of projects in the transportation. I mean if we really talk about — about 25% of our total order book is from this transportation division. In terms of, you know, value, it is INR17,929 crores. So it is already about one one-fourth of our total order book. And we believe that we will see good number of projects coming up for bidding in transportation segment.
Sarvesh Gupta
So I think in an industry level, I think generally people have not got much of orders. So I think are your orders more related to the state government side rather than NHAI and not?
Neerad Sharma
Our rewards that we have got are from variety of the projects in most of the projects, for example, when we talk about the metro projects, the state government and the central government don’t both partner with each other. NHI, unfortunately, we have not been very successful in the NHI projects in the past?
Sarvesh Gupta
Okay, okay. And sir, finally on the guidance, so I think this question was asked before also, but I think with a INR72,000 crores sort of an order book plus an order inflow of maybe INR20 crore INR25,000 crore. So from that bucket, if we are executing only around INR25-odd INR1,000 crore, then it becomes like a very small sort of a ratio of order execution versus the order book. So I mean, if you can give us some more color as to what are you seeing from the client side, are they not sort of after giving the orders, we are not sort of proceeding through the next steps, including the central government-related orders or are we, you know, anticipating any other delays, why should the order execution be so compared to our large order book? Hello.
Operator
The management’s line seems to have disconnected. Please wait while we rejoin them hello the management line has been reconnected.
Neerad Sharma
Hello was you audible? Yeah. Or let me know that let me — the first point that I wanted to share with you was the ability to execute the project. I mean, having the required number of people, machinery, everything to execute the projects. So this we do have. The second important part is whenever a project is announced, you know, the client should make us available all the land which is — which is required to execute, all the permissions, all the drawing approvals, you know. So when this link is missing, there is — there is little that we could do. So unfortunately, this is something that is going to impact our execution. The third important point is our ability — the ability of the clients to make payments, certify bills on-time, make payments on-time. So unless those things are in-place, we will not be able to really execute from larger share from our order book. And the fourth important thing that we need to keep in mind is we have been able to bag lot of projects in the last quarter, that is 4th-quarter. So it takes — it takes about three, four months time to mobilize the project, get the land, get all the ROWs in-place. So there is a — there is a — there is a delay in award of a project and the billing cycle really to start. So I think these are the four important points that I wish to bring to your attention.
Sarvesh Gupta
Yeah. Thank you, sir. And on the order inflows also, I think we have guided for a lower order inflow compared to what we have received this year. So any color on that, sir?
Neerad Sharma
I think you know most — I mean has already touched about touched upon this capital city project. So we were — fortunately, most of these capital city projects, if not all, got converted in the Q4 of the last financial year. So we expect to see some movement, some new projects that might come up for bidding in the capital city. So that is the reason or you could say that the project that we should have ideally bagged in FY ’26, we have been able to bag in FY ’25. So if you really add these two numbers, they look very attractive, right?
Sarvesh Gupta
Yes. How much is Andhra by the way of your overall order book?
Sanjay Pusarla
It’s somewhere around 9,500,
Neerad Sharma
8,900, 95 only.
Sarvesh Gupta
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Shah from JM Financials Limited. Please go-ahead.
Vaibhav Shah
Yeah so you mentioned the capex number at INR750 crores for FY ’27. So is it at standalone level?
Sanjay Pusarla
’26, ’26
Vaibhav Shah
So it is for standalone for FY ’24.
Sanjay Pusarla
This is INR150 crores.
Vaibhav Shah
For standalone or consolt
Neerad Sharma
Standalone.
Vaibhav Shah
So why is it so high the number versus the last year’s number? So are we including spark meter capex as well?
Sanjay Pusarla
It was somewhere around INR305 crores. This year, we are expecting the TBM, which will be used for tunneling project in Mumbai that is expected to come this year, okay, that itself is around INR300 crores. So rest of the money is expected to be invested in other projects, capex.
Sarvesh Gupta
Okay. So what is the status of the GMLR project?
R.S. Raju
The GMLR project, they have got all the clearances. They have started building their approach roads. They have also started building their facilities for casting yard and also started landing station also for the TBM and they are also started for the cut and cover portion of the project. Okay. So these are the things which are happening now. It is expected that TBM missions can arrive anytime maybe in the next one month, one and a half month and thereafter they should assemble them and put them in-place at the landing station and start the work. We see the present status.
Vaibhav Shah
Okay. And sir, TBM investment will be done for standalone books?
Neerad Sharma
Could you repeat your question?
Vaibhav Shah
Yeah, TBM investment of INR300 crores. That will be done from the standalone books?
Sanjay Pusarla
Yes, it will be done in the standalone books. Both the partners are buying 1-1 TBM and they are deploying those TBMs from the owner side.
Vaibhav Shah
So our share is INR300 crores.
Sanjay Pusarla
Yeah.
Neerad Sharma
Approximately.
Vaibhav Shah
Okay. Okay. And sir, secondly, what investments are we planning to do in the smart meter projects for ’26 and ’27?
Sanjay Pusarla
And about INR280 crores is a total investment that need to be made. And we are expecting to do around INR130 crores by Q2 and balance investments depends on the financial closure, it need to be done.
Vaibhav Shah
So we are planning to bring any — of partner with us. So to it will be entire done by us or we are still looking out for a partner?
Sanjay Pusarla
At the moment, it is only the investments by NCCL and we are on the lookward for the partners scouting per.
Vaibhav Shah
Okay. Okay. And sir, what is the outstanding number for the receivables from EP? Last year it was around INR400 crores. Okay.
Sanjay Pusarla
No, it was INR147 crores last-time, okay, capital city projects. Out of that INR147 crores, we received some and we are the outstanding at the moment is INR110 crores for the capital C deposits where there was an issue.
Vaibhav Shah
Any running projects?
Sanjay Pusarla
Running projects, we are getting the money realization on-time and basically there is a realization only the execution is happening. There is no worry on the running projects.
Vaibhav Shah
And what would be the number? Last-time it was around INR250 odd crores as of December,
Sanjay Pusarla
Actually around INR220 crores.
Vaibhav Shah
Okay. And sir, on the margin side, do we expect improvement in FY ’27, while it should be around 9.25 for ’26
Sanjay Pusarla
Is a too long period to predict today.
Neerad Sharma
If it’s difficult to — difficult really to talk about FY ’27 margin, I mean in the next year, when we finalize the budget for FY ’27, you know, we should be in a position to commit a number to you. I think this is a little far away.
Vaibhav Shah
But given the mix of the backlog on the new orders you have received, are we hopeful for an improvement on a Y-o-Y basis or
R.S. Raju
As we are looking for improvement at the bottom-line? And about the — this EBITDA margin level, it depends upon the mix of the projects. So at this moment, the larger-sized projects what we take for BSNL about including Y&M about INR10,000 crore INR11,000 crores project. The projects which have the more visioner oriented generally reports the higher margins as a result of high EBITDA margin rise. But in case of NCC, the mix of the projects contains not much of missionary warranted projects. As a result, our EBITDA margin — gross margin generally low compared to the industry levels. So in the current coming two years, our mix of the projects, particularly the BSML projects were INR10,000 crores. There is no much capex investment. So — and also we do not have major portfolio of the roads. Generally, the roads and the mining industry more business we use, generally they give margins, there is a chance of increasing the EBITDA margins. So going-forward in the next two years, we expect an improvement at the bottom-line, but not at the EBITDA levels.
Vaibhav Shah
Okay. Thank you, sir. Those are my questions.
Operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Anupam Gupta from IIFL Securities. Please go-ahead.
Anupam Gupta
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. So firstly on the order book. So like Bharatnet, I think has almost like 50%, which is the O&M portion of the order. So of the total — of the total INR71,000 crore order book, how much is the O&M order book which gets executed over a longer period of time rather than the next year?
Sanjay Pusarla
So whatever O&M execution to be done after the capex portion that was not included in the order book. Generally, what we do is that what we can execute in the next three years, that only will be considered in the order book. Thank you, sir. Out of that, around INR7,127 crores, I think we have taken in the current order book, balance value of the order book is still line the order book.
Neerad Sharma
Mr Gupta same way for the smart meters also, if you recall, we had a discussion about smart meters. We have not considered O&M in our order book. ONM, we only take into our order book once the EPC part, that is the construction part is done.
Anupam Gupta
Okay. Understood, sir. And then going by your earlier commentary on the JMLR project plus the AP project and also given the fact that a lot of orders came in the 4th-quarter, which you said will ramp-up over the second-half possibly of this year. Should FY ’27 much be — should be a much stronger growth than the 10% which you are doing in FY ’26 because order book plus the inflow which we’ll get-in this year, all of that will support that.
Neerad Sharma
But Mr Gupta, hopefully, yes, but give us some time, give us some time, it’s a changing, it’s a dynamic world. So once we have a better visibility, better assessment, we should be able to update you.
Anupam Gupta
Okay. And just one last question, what is the status of the land that received?
Sanjay Pusarla
In the case of land, whatever investment we have made, it is completely received back and
Neerad Sharma
Equity,
Sanjay Pusarla
Whatever the equities that is received. And whatever loan is there out-of-the loan also, we received about INR15 crores in the current year, expect to receive about INR120 crores in the next year balance thereafter.
Anupam Gupta
And so what is the total balance, sir?
Sanjay Pusarla
It’s including interest about INR375 crores fine, that’s all from my side, sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Parvesh Kazi from Nuvama Group. Please go-ahead.
Parvez Qazi
Hi, good morning and thanks for taking my question. Sir, couple of questions from my side. Sir, is it correct that of the total INR10,800 crore BSNL order, as of now, we have included only about INR7,100 crores in our order book?
Neerad Sharma
Yes. Sure. That’s right.
Parvez Qazi
Sure. Thank you. The second question was, what would have been our total execution or construction revenues in FY ’25, including the work that we would have done in our mining projects in
Neerad Sharma
The overall revenue,
R.S. Raju
756 crores is a construction business.
Parvez Qazi
Sure, sir. And lastly, I mean, you mentioned that I think in Andhra Capital City, we have about INR9,000 crores of orders currently. So of these orders, how much quantum would we have received in FY ’25?
Sanjay Pusarla
Almost all the orders were issued in FY ’25 last quarter, a small portion maybe INR800 crore INR600 crores were issued in the April month.
Parvez Qazi
Okay. And sir, of the L1 orders that we have, does that also include some portion from the capacity project?
Neerad Sharma
No, no, no, not for the Capital City project, this is from the all these states put together.
Parvez Qazi
And lastly, I mean, did we mention that there are more projects coming up for bidding in the Capital City project or I just I just wanted to get that clear.
Neerad Sharma
We understand — we understand that a lot of projects have already been awarded and that is reflective in the orders that we have already backed in the last quarter. But at the end-of-the day, it’s call of the government. We understand that few projects might also get — come off for bidding, let’s say that come off for bidding this year as well, but we have to wait-and-watch.
Parvez Qazi
Sure, sir. Thanks and all the best-in this year.
Sanjay Pusarla
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Ankitas Shah from Elara Capital. Please go-ahead. Go-ahead.
Ankita Shah
Yeah, hi. Thank you. Sir, what is the gross debt on the standalone level as of now?
Sanjay Pusarla
INR1,480 basis
Ankita Shah
1,4
Sanjay Pusarla
84
Ankita Shah
Okay. And do we expect finance expenses to go down because we — that has not gone down that is why
Sanjay Pusarla
Yeah we expect to take some steps like arranging some CPs and other things, okay. And we are also trying to use the other products like trades and purchase quantity. We are hopeful that it may bring some savings in the current year.
Ankita Shah
Okay. Any quantum? How much are you expecting?
Sanjay Pusarla
We will not be able to estimate at the moment because we need to even explore that how can we convert the people who are on under of payment to these modes of payment. It depends on how their will take it.
R.S. Raju
The reason here is one of the reason for increase in the debt in the year ’24, ’25. The most of the mobilized earlier, we easy to take from the clients. Generally, the interest cost is also lower than the 9% of what the banks are leaving. But in the recent past, we observed that the cost of the mobilization advance sometimes exceeding 12%. Wherever the cost of the mobilization advance is more than 11% and 12%. We are not availing that mobilization advance. We are dropping that one. Instead of using mobilization advance from the clients, we are relying on the bank’s loans where we are getting around 9% to 9.3%. That is one of the reason for again to increase in the debt in the year ’24, ’25 and then also in the coming years, the debt may slowly rise up about INR200 crore INR300 crores every year. It depends upon how the mobilization advance, how the terms and conditions they stipulate in the top — but most of the clients, the putting the interest cost that is also — that is also more than the bank interest. But is discouraging us to take the mobilization advance. That is the reason the debt — gross debt is appearing on the price side.
Sanjay Pusarla
To give you more color on this, earlier in ’23, the interest-bearing advances are only 53%. As we passess and now at the end of FY ’25, the interest-bearing advances are 79%. That is the main reason why the debt is being opted than the interest mobilization advance. And the mobilized advances, today they carry interest and the costing for the mobilized advance at the end-of-the day is much higher than what we are getting from the lenders.
Ankita Shah
Okay. Got it. And sir, we are also seeing a increase in exposure to subsidiaries. I mean, this had gone down earlier, but now again increase and we’ve got some impairment also done during the quarter in some subsidiary. You’re looking at emerging NCC infra with the parent. I mean, what are we trying to do in the subsidiaries?
Sanjay Pusarla
Two things, Madam. One is the impairment is on account of women subsidiary at, okay. So that we feel that we may not be able to realize whatever we have invested. So we have created an impairment of that. Okay. And second thing is that the investment is going to be there. Now we have started investing in the smart projects. We have invested about INR70 crores in the smart automated projects. And we also have another LLP, which we have started for producing some specialized concrete. So there also will start
Ankita Shah
Okay. Okay, fine. And sir, lastly, in the BSNL project, how much would be the bought-out component?
Operator
I am so sorry to interrupt you. We have lost the management’s line. I’ll disconnect them just a moment.
Ankita Shah
Sure.
Operator
Thank you the management line has been reconnected. Ma’am, please go-ahead.
Ankita Shah
Yeah. I was asking, sir, how much is the bought-out component in the recent BSNL orders?
Sanjay Pusarla
We need to evaluate it madam and
Neerad Sharma
We have the we have just recently backed these VSNL project, so we will have to do a thorough assessment of the project. Then when leash we shall be in a position to really determine how much is the bought-out component.
Ankita Shah
Sure.
Neerad Sharma
And then we should be in a position to share that same with you.
Ankita Shah
I’ll take this up later with you, then okay. Thank you so much and wish you all the best.
Sanjay Pusarla
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Path Thakkar from JM Financial. Please go-ahead.
Parth Thakkar
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, can you help me with your PAT number for the Pachwara SPV for FY ’25? Thank you.
R.S. Raju
Hello, repeat my question
Parth Thakkar
The profit for Pachwara for FY ’25
R.S. Raju
Full-year some second
Parth Thakkar
I’m asking profit-after-tax
R.S. Raju
Crores.
Parth Thakkar
Okay. And can you also — can you repeat the total investment in smart meters for FY ’26 and FY ’24?
Sanjay Pusarla
So we have already explained it before, it was INR280 crores the total investment we made.
Parth Thakkar
So can you help me with the — how much in FY ’26 and how much in FY ’25?
Sanjay Pusarla
FY ’23. Like Q2, we need to invest about INR130 crores and balance it will be decided based on the progress and financial closure of the other project?
Parth Thakkar
And also, sir, what led to the net working capital improvement in 4Q ’25? Was this largely driven through the improvement in JJM payments or was there any other factor?
Sanjay Pusarla
It was the JJL payment. We are expecting that to come now.
Parth Thakkar
Okay. Thank you, sir. That’s all from my end.
Sanjay Pusarla
Yeah.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Janum Jain from ICICI Securities. Please go-ahead.
Jainam Jain
Good morning, management. Sir, my first question is like as we have given the initial commentary of INR2.55 lakh crores of our tender pipeline or like how is the outlook on the building segment side and like which are the major key benefits we expect to be tender out in this year?
Neerad Sharma
See, we don’t — I mean, we don’t really talk about the breakup division-wise of the prospective pipeline. When we talk about a prospective future pipeline of projects, what this essentially means is these are the projects which have been announced by the respective of the clients, central government, state government, different PSUs, you know some kind of approval has been given, you know. So we compile this information across all power lines of businesses. So we really don’t share the breakup of this prospective pipeline of projects, you know the division-wise.
Jainam Jain
Alright sir and so what is the amount of loan given to subcontractors as of March 1
Sanjay Pusarla
Times give any to subcontractors it will be only mobilized advanced as a part of the world
Jainam Jain
All right, sir. And sir, what is the reason for higher other income, which we had in FY ’25? I mean it some Y-o-Y growth and
Sanjay Pusarla
Other income — the other income in FY ’25, one is on the dividend, which is almost like INR44 crores but that has come from. And the other one is there are flats in Bangalore, that is also part of the other income.
Jainam Jain
Okay, sir. That answers my question. Thank you so much.
Sanjay Pusarla
Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Company. Please go-ahead.
Saket Kapoor
Yeah,, sir and thank you to the team for a very detailed interaction, sir. Just a second.
Neerad Sharma
No skar.
Saket Kapoor
Thank you, sir. Sir, firstly, on this coal part, sir, what are we — what are we anticipating in terms of the contribution from the JV and the milestones for which we are expecting any ramp-up in the output going ahead, if you could just give some color there, sir
R.S. Raju
The. Okay. For us, the coal mining projects where we are executing along with other joint-venture partner, almost we have achieved the rated capacity for 15 million tonne per tonnes per annum and already we achieved. And at this moment, we are in a position to produce more than 15 million tonnes in a year that we are trying to increase and the promoter side capabilities are there. And West Bengal Port Corporation Limited, they have the environment clearance for 15 million tonnes per year. They are trying to enhance that 15 million tons to some 18 million tons and thereafter to some other things basing on the requirement, the demand for the coal they have their projects. So — and in, we are building up our capacities and also sometimes we are achieving more than 15 million tons in some months also, which establishing our capacity to produce more than 50 million tonnes. So once the West Bank of all the open under the client receives the environment clearance for more than 50 million tonnes. So we’re able to produce that one. At this moment, the other milestones to fulfill our R&D activity. First, wheel is ordinary activity we have completed and accordingly, the land of that wheel is taken out in projects. And the second wheel is in-progress and the already awarded the civil work to build the houses for the villages of the second village. That also that contract also we have taken. So we are executing that one in a period of six to nine months, we are able to complete that one. That will also be ship to the new office.
So as of this moment and workfront is available to do these 50 million tonnes or more than 50 million tons what our West Bengal the require for that one. And the other one is the railways ID, that is the biggest issue for the project and the Wester Bengal Board of issued at the time of tender in a five years period, they bring the CHP, the coal plant of the railway siding to the fit mouth mode, but that work still is on the paper and so-far now the contract is not awarded to lay the railway line from — it has to come from 50 kilometers to the mouth. So at this moment, still we are doing the transport by road, but for which we developed alternative railway sidings apart from the existing railway line — the road line what the originals are given. So by developing other two alternative sidings and now at this moment, we are transporting through three routes and distributed the density to three routes. And at this moment, coal transportation also going and meeting the requirement of the 50 million trucks. Let me say a brief about the coal mining project.
Saket Kapoor
Right. And sir, we have also seen that this project, DPR has also been floated. So any update on the same in terms of
R.S. Raju
As the project we have bidded and already the division started the work now doing the survey work and mobilizing the resources, establishing the site camp and mobilizing the required equipment and all these things are going on. And at this movement work as per scheduled and taking some clearances commissions are going off. And the division has required equipment also from the division also planning to take some of the equipment from the mining division to carry-out the initial work required for the project. So some more update will come after three, four months, some clarity of visibility will come in another three, four months’ time. And moreover, coming monsoon season is there and prior to monsoon there won’t be any good progress of physical work happens except to establishing the resources and bringing the resources to the at the project-level. And from September onwards, the real physical work will move. So as of now, the order book will be —
Operator
Just —
Saket Kapoor
Yeah, yeah. Ma’am, I’m just only concluding ma’am no question. Sir, as per the current order book status, do we have a portion of this or it is only the preparatory work that is going down directly correctly
Sanjay Pusarla
And that wise a part of the order book.
Saket Kapoor
Can you quantify the amount, sir?
R.S. Raju
These around INR3,000 — around INR4,000 crores is there. That is part of the order book what we expect INR71,000 in that one INR4,000 crores is there.
Saket Kapoor
Okay, sir. Thank you for all the detailed answers, sir. And we hope for better execution with me, sir.
Sanjay Pusarla
Thank you.
Saket Kapoor
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. We’ll take the last question from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go-ahead, sir.
Shravan Shah
Thank you, sir for opportunity again. Sir, just to understand on the finance costs of this year FY ’25 around INR650 crore INR653-odd crores. So whatever we have said in terms of the mobilization advance also having the interest-bearing. So broadly, is it fair to say this number more or less will remain the same in FY ’26 also?
R.S. Raju
No, some more increase the — about the 12% increase we have given the top-line, the interest cost may go by another 4% to 5%, 5%.
Sarvesh Gupta
Got it, got it. And sir, is it possible to give a breakup of order inflow and the execution.
Neerad Sharma
At the very outset in the introductory remarks, I have already talked about broadly the order book in the important divisions. Yeah, so I will be recording.
Shravan Shah
Yeah. So yeah, no, no, I’m talking about the order inflow. So what we have received, can we give a segment-wise breakup and possible the Q4 FY ’25 revenue segment-wise
Sanjay Pusarla
Which I have already given asking. Basically whatever orders we have issued over to INR2008 crore INR80 crores. Yeah, okay.
Neerad Sharma
Yeah. MR. MR. The broad contribution from different divisions of the order book I have already shared. Now I will talk about the breakup of the division by orders. For example, and this total INR32,888 crores that we have had, about 26% is from buildings I repeat 26% from the buildings the number is INR8,447 crore okay. The second-largest contribution is from Transportation division, which is 24%. The value is INR7,837 crore. Okay. The third large contribution is from electrical T&D, which is again 24%. The value is INR8,031 crore. The fourth large contribution is from the irrigation division, which is 13%. The value is INR4,138 crores. Okay. The last one is from the water division, which is 3%, INR1,102 crores. That’s — and this total number will of course include the change of — change in the scope of various projects that we have in our order book.
Shravan Shah
And nothing is in mining in terms of the entire order inflow that we have received in FY ’25.
Neerad Sharma
We have made INR3,338 crores, 10%. 3,338 crores, 10%
Shravan Shah
Got it. Got it. Okay. And possible for Q4 FY ’25 revenue segment-wise breakup, sir
Neerad Sharma
I don’t have the numbers ready, Sir, may be offline, you know we can no, no, she sir.
Shravan Shah
No, she’s. Thank you, sir, and all the best.
Neerad Sharma
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Neerad Sharma
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much for your enthusiastic participation in this interactive meeting. In the investors presentation that we have uploaded on our website and also shared with the stock exchanges, we have given one email ID. Should you have any questions post this call, you can get-in touch with us. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you.
Sanjay Pusarla
Thank you so much.
Operator
On behalf of JM Financial Institutional Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you