NCC Limited (NSE: NCC) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Feb. 06, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Neerad Sharma — Head, Strategy and Investor Relations
Sanjay Pusarla — Executive Vice President, Finance and Accounts
R.S. Raju — Director of Projects
Analysts:
Vaibhav Shah — Analyst
Shravan Shah — Analyst
Prithvi Raj — Analyst
Jainam Jain — Analyst
Deepak Poddar — Analyst
Parvesh Qazi — Analyst
Dhananjay Mishra — Analyst
Dheeraj Ram — Analyst
Parth Thakkar — Analyst
Vishal Periwal — Analyst
Saket Kapoor — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the NCC Limited Q3 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call hosted by JM Financial Institutional Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr Shah from JM Financial Institutional Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Vaibhav Shah — Analyst
Yeah. Thank you. On behalf of JM Financial, I welcome everybody to 3Q FY ’25 earnings conference call of NCC Limited. We have from the management today are CRS Raju, Director Projects Limited; C. Sanjay Pusserla, Executive Platforms; and Sri Nirat Sharma, Head, Strategy and Investor Relations.
Now I hand over the call to the management for opening remarks, which will be followed by a Q&A session. Over to you, sir.
Neerad Sharma — Head, Strategy and Investor Relations
Good evening, everyone. At the very outset, I thank each of you for taking time to attend this interactive meeting. I have with me my colleagues, Mr Harsh Raju, Director of Projects; and Mr Sanjay Pussarla, CFO. CFO. Today, we have declared our results for the 3rd-quarter of the financial year ’25. Hope you had an opportunity to download and study the results and the investors presentation uploaded on our website and shared with the stock exchanges.
Before I begin this interactive meeting, I will read-out the disclaimer. The presentation may contain certain forward-looking statements concerning NCC’s future business prospects and business profitability, which are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties and the actual results could materially differ from those in such forward-looking statements. The risks and uncertainties related to these statements include, but are not limited to risks and uncertainties regarding fluctuations in, our ability to manage growth, competition, both domestic and international, economic growth in India and ability to attract and retain highly-skilled professions. Time and cost overruns on contracts, our ability to manage operations, government policies and actions with respect to investments, fiscal deficits, regulations, geopolitical risks, interest and other fiscal costs generally prevailing in the economy. The past performance of the company may not be indicative of future performance.
This interaction is broadly divided into three parts. In the first part, I will talk about a brief overview of the business environment and prospects for our company. In the second part, our CFO will give a brief about the financial performance of the company for the second-quarter. In the third-part, we will attempt to answer any questions and clarifications that you might have. To give — to give you a brief wrap-up of the Indian economy, according — according to the Economy Survey 2024, ’25, the pace of the Union government’s capital expenditure in major infrastructure sectors was affected during first-quarter of the current financial year, largely due to the modal code of conduct during the general elections.
Further, the unusual pattern of the last monsoon season also slowed down the progress of work. The union budget for FY ’26, which was presented recently, has continued its thrust on encouraging the capex. The budgeted capex has increased by 10.1% from INR10.0 lakh crore in FY ’25, which is a revised estimate to INR11.2 lakh crore in FY ’26. The grants in add for creation of capital asset has increased from INR3 lakh crore in FY ’25 RE to INR4.3 lakh crores in FY ’26. The capex of public sector enterprises has increased from INR3.3.8 lakh crores in FY ’25 to INR4.3 lakh crores in FY ’26. Therefore, if we take all these factors into account, the total capex has increased from INR17 lakh crores in FY ’25 to INR19.8 lakh crore in FY ’26, which is an which is an increase of 16.4%.
On the performance of our company, we are seeing a healthy pipeline for future projects. We have a prospective project pipeline of more than INR2.4 lakh crore. We are currently sitting at an order book of INR55,548 crore. We take this opportunity to share with you the fact that we have decided to revise the guidance earlier shared with you. Earlier we had shared with you an order inflow guidance of INR20,000 crores to INR22,000 crores, which we decided to retain. But we are revising the revenue growth downwards to around 5% and EBITDA margin around 9.25% for the current financial year. We have — we have witnessed the slow pace of execution due to general elections and elections in some of the states. Additionally, some of our projects have seen elongated billing and payment cycles leading to slowdown in execution.
Now coming back to the performance of our business divisions. In the — in our large two divisions, that is buildings and Transportation Division, we continue to see a very good traction and healthy pipeline of projects. We have an order book of INR21,085 crores, which is about 38% of our total order book in buildings and INR10,800 crores, which is 19% of our total order book in the transportation division. Our water division has an order book of INR5,450 crores, which is about 10% of our total order book. In our electrical T&D business, we have an order book of INR10,633 crores as of 31st December 2014, which is about 19% of our order book.
The order book in the irrigation division is INR4,496 crores as of December end, which is about 8% of our order book. The order book of the mining division at the end of nine months is INR3,050 crore, which is about 5% of our total order book.
Now I will hand over to our CFO, Mr Sanjay Busala with a request to cover the detailed financial performance of the company.
Sanjay Pusarla — Executive Vice President, Finance and Accounts
Good evening to all of you. I am pleased to announce the financial results of Q3 of financial year ’25. My announcement will be in the order of order book, revenue, profitability, debt movement and some of the important balance sheet items.
To start with order book. Our order book stands at INR55,548 as at the end of December 2024. You are aware that the order book at the beginning of the year is INR57,536 crores and orders received during the nine months is INR13,608 crores, of which in Q3, we received INR8,440 crores. So we have executed INR15,590 crores of work during the first-nine months and the order book thus stands at INR55,548 crores, coming to the revenue on the standalone. Turnover reported in Q3 FY ’25 is INR4,720 crores as against turnover of INR4,773 crores in the previous year. During the nine months, the cumulative turnover is INR13,947 crores as against INR12,951 crores reported in the previous nine months — previous year nine months.
Coming to the consolidated. The turnover reported in in Q3 FY ’25 is INR5,383 crores as against turnover of INR5,288 crores in the previous year. During the nine months turnover, it is INR16,166 crores as against INR14,441 crores reported in the previous year nine months.
Let’s coming to the profitability. We achieved at the standalone level. We achieved EBITDA of 8.77% for Q3 as against 10.1% of the corresponding quarter of the previous year. And for nine months, current year, we achieved EBITDA of 9.04% as against 8.85% in the nine months of the previous year. Profit before-tax at the standalone level is 5.18% and PAT is 3.91% in the current quarter as against PBT of 6.24% and PAT of 4.46% earlier. At consolidated level, we have received EBITDA of 8.25% and PBT of 5.02% and PAT of 3.59% in the current quarter. There is Q3 as against EBITDA of 9.61%, PBT of 6.15% and PAT of 4.17% over the previous period. The main reason for the reduction in Q3 of FY ’25 compared to FY ’24 is on account of low lower turnover and lower adoption because of the lower turnover, lower absorption of other fixed-rate costs. That has resulted in lower EBITDA and lower profit.
Coming to the debt movement, the debt at the beginning of the year stood at INR1,005 crores and net-debt after cash-and-cash equivalents is INR517 crores. At the end of Q2, it stood at INR1,733 crores and net-debt of INR1,624 crores. And at the end of Q3, that is at the end of December ’24, the same was at INR2,415 crores and net-debt is INR2,343 crores. There is an increase in debt by INR680 crores compared to Q2. The debt-equity ratio stands at 3.33 at the end of Q3 as against 0.25 at the end of Q2.
Coming to the working capital. Working capital at the end of Q3 stands at INR5,488 crores, which is 32% of the turnover. In terms of working capital days, it is 95 days. These working capital days were calculated excluding cash and margin money deposits. So coming to the debtors. Debtors outstanding at the end of Q3 has increased from INR2,793 crores to INR3,142 crores and the number of days also increased from 65 days to 74 days in the current quarter. And unbilled revenue stands at INR6,151 crores, which is 33% of the revenue per Q3 as against INR5,221 crores, which is 29% at Q2.
Coming to the mobilization advances. Mobilization advances stands at INR1,977 crores as against INR2,096 crores, showing a reduction in the mob advances and recovery by the clients by INR119 crores. This is also — this is also one of the reasons for our debt levels increase and it is standing at 4% of turnover. Of these mobilization advances, we have 78% of these advances are interest-bearing and the average interest-rate comes to 9.57%.
So next coming to capex. We have incurred a capex of INR223 crores in the current financial year as against the budgeted capex of INR250 crores per regular projects. So coming to the ratios, the crores stands at 13.13 as against 14.04 at FY ’24 end. Return on-net worth against PBT is 13.87 as against 13.88%. EPS stands at 8.70 as at the end of Q3. For March, it is 10.10.
With this, I conclude announcement of the financial results for Q3 FY ’25. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin with the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star N1 on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star N2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go-ahead.
Shravan Shah
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, sir. Sir, a couple of things. So first, just trying to even if we, let’s say 5% that the revenue guidance that we have reduced from 15% plus to 5%. So that also, if I broadly calculating, it means that in the 4th-quarter also, we are looking at kind of a 1% kind of a degrowth. So if you can clarify there. And in terms of the margin when we are saying 9.25% for full-year, so nine months we have a 9%. So in 4th-quarter, are we now again looking at 9.5% to 10% kind of a margin? And is that margin sustainable going-forward?
Neerad Sharma
Sir, this margin whatever we gave, the guidance now revives to 9.25%. As you said, we are expecting the margin should be around 9.5% in the quarter-four. So that’s the reason we thought it will be around 9.25%. So this is a — this at the moment, it is sustainable.
R.S. Raju
As far as the revenue growth, the first question what you asked is the de-growth in the 4th-quarter as against what we’ve given the guidance in 4th-quarter, about some minus 1% or 2% will be there in the revenue so that the — it is close to the 5% growth in the year as a whole.
Shravan Shah
Yeah. So what I am trying to understand is that are we seeing across-the-board kind of a slowdown in the execution and that’s why we are now significantly lowering the number. So I understand we also don’t give the guidance for FY ’26 now. But on the directionally front, as now we have reduced the growth for this year, can we see a kind of a 10% kind of a range plus kind of a growth at least in the FY ’26?
Neerad Sharma
No we have not started really working out the numbers and what happens is by 31st March, generally we are able to close each of the projects that we are executing, which are quite a few, about 150, 160 odd. Then we are in a position to know-how much is possible from each of these projects for FY ’26. And generally, we work-out these numbers in the month of April and May. I think once when we announce our annual results in the month of May, we should be in a position to talk about these guidance for FY ’26 and this is not possibly the right time to talk about FY ’26.
R.S. Raju
Now you about across-the-board. Now we have several projects across various states. It has not happen across all the projects, the slow movement in some — in some of the schemes, some of the projects only the slowness is experienced. So it is not so for all these things. Whatever new projects we picked-up in the current year and whatever projects we are going to pick-up and in the financial year ’25, ’26, the scenario again different. The trend of the trend indicates that in the last three years, we have continuously shown growth of around 35%. So in this year because of the specific general elections happen and also some elections in some of the states happen, we are seeing two things now generally given the slow pace for this current year.
Shravan Shah
Okay, got it. Sir, couple of data points for the balance sheet, what is left, if you can say? And also in terms of the right now, what is the value of the L1 projects? And then I will spell out the balance sheet numbers which I need hello
Operator
Go-ahead
Shravan Shah
Sir, are you able to hear me?
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen.
Neerad Sharma
Yeah, we can hear you. The projects in the pipeline is roughly about INR9,000 crore to INR10,000 crores.
Shravan Shah
Okay, got it. And what is the retention value and the exposure in terms of the investment in JVs and associates as on December. So in September, it was INR1,411 odd crore. So what’s the value per as on December?
R.S. Raju
Investments of investments. Same there is no change in investments.
Shravan Shah
Also the loans and advances. So that number INR1,411 odd crore stands remains the same as on December also
R.S. Raju
And the loans are INR388 crores, about INR7 crores increase is there in the prior quarter.
Shravan Shah
Okay. And retention value is how much sir much?
R.S. Raju
It was INR1,757 crores.
Shravan Shah
That INR57 odd crores. Okay, sir. Thank you. I will be in queue. Thank you.
R.S. Raju
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Raj from Unifi Capital. Please go-ahead.
Prithvi Raj
Yeah. So I just have a couple of questions. First question, in the opening remarks, you have made a point that in some of the projects, you are seeing a delay in the payment cycle. So could you just explain a bit more on this, which are the kind of projects where you’re seeing an issue on the receivable side?
R.S. Raju
It is general in nature because of these elections at the center level and the state-level. You know when there is change in the political parties and systems and there is bound to be some delay in village of payments. So that is happening now. We are going through that cycle. Probably now the government has, the improvements will be expected.
Prithvi Raj
And secondly, on the Maharashtra, I mean, you have a sizable exposure there. How is the ground level activity? I understand maybe last quarter it got impacted because of elections, but are we seeing an improvement on execution in this quarter or still there are issues going on there?
Neerad Sharma
I think things should pick-up now. You know, the elections are very much behind us and there is a new government in-place. So we expect things to pick-up now.
Prithvi Raj
And finally on the order flows, I mean, you maintained the guidance, but what kind of pipeline are you witnessing, which are the sectors, which are the geographies where you’re seeing an order flow or project tending that’s happening that gives you the confidence that you will achieve the guidance number.
Neerad Sharma
Yes, I have shared at the — at the very start, we have a prospective pipeline of project it is — it is now there in one state across these states and across the verticals. And I’m happy to share with you this prospective pipeline of projects, the value is about INR2.45 lakh crores. It is in all the verticals, all the seven verticals in which we operate and it is in almost all the states, large states at least.
Prithvi Raj
Okay, I join in the queue.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Janum Jain from ICICI Securities. Please go-ahead.
Jainam Jain
Sir, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, we have guided the order inflow guidance of INR20,000 to INR20,000 crores. But in Nine-Month FY ’25, we have only — only receiving contracts worth INR13.600 crores. So are there any specific contracts in which we are expecting L1 in the coming quarter, which would help us met the order inflow guidance for this year?
R.S. Raju
Just before this question, someone was asking us about the L1 orders. We said somewhere INR8,000 crores INR10,000 crores, we are in the L1 position. So we are expecting those orders to get materialized in the quarter. And that is what makes us confident to achieve the number. This is not one project or two projects, there are multiple projects. So the value would be in that range.
Jainam Jain
So, sir, what are the projects included in the L1 amount and like we expect all the LOAs to be received in Q4 FY ’25.
R.S. Raju
I mean it is difficult. See, at the end-of-the day, it’s a call of the client, you know, when the client finally decides to award the contract is something his call, you know. But as we speak, we are confident and we are hopeful that these L1 should get converted into LOAs.
Jainam Jain
Okay, so what are the projects included in that amount?
R.S. Raju
I think all that we do is we share the bracket of the projects. We don’t really spell out the list of all the projects because it is difficult to cases when where the L1s do not really get converted into LOA. So as a matter of policy, we’ve only talk about a specific project when LOA is repeat.
Jainam Jain
Okay, sir. And sir, we have seen a huge increase in debt levels in this year to INR2,41,500 crores from INR1,000 crores in FY ’24. So what was the reason for that? Also the reason for a spike in working capital days.
Neerad Sharma
Could you repeat your question please? I don’t understand. Could you please repeat your question? Yes, there is some eco.
Jainam Jain
Hello. Am I audible right now?
Neerad Sharma
Yeah. Please tell me. There was some eco earlier, so we couldn’t understand your question.
Jainam Jain
Okay. So we have seen a huge increase in debt levels. So compared to previous year. So what’s the reason for that?
R.S. Raju
Okay. Debt is after what happens. Yeah. The debt level increase, we have already explained to you that there is a slowdown in the payment mechanism because of these elections and not. That is the reason if you see the debt level has increased. At the same time, my unbilled revenue also got increased. So whatever money we are spending today, it is getting — is waiting for the certification from the authorities once that is done and now we expect that the government is seated at all the places. We expect that conversion will happen and it will help us in reducing our debt level shortly.
Jainam Jain
All right, okay, that answers my question. Thank you and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Deepak Poddar from Sapphire Capital. Please go-ahead.
Deepak Poddar
Yeah. Am I audible, sir?
Neerad Sharma
Yes, please.
Deepak Poddar
Yeah, okay. Thank you very much, sir for this opportunity. Sir, just wanted to take this debt level point forward. So you mentioned about reduction in debt levels. So what sort of debt, I mean, target we would have by FY ’26 and overall FY ’26 as well.
R.S. Raju
Today, I will not be able to tell you what it can be, okay, because we are waiting for the government to act on that. And once the payment positions improves, then we’ll be able to fairly estimate and come back to you.
Neerad Sharma
So generally — generally in the construction industry, the inflows that collections from the clients happen in the 4th-quarter, particularly in the March month. So thereby, whatever debt level is at this moment, we expect that comes down. And moreover, we have a lot of amount to receive from the clients. What we explained already that there is a slow mechanism of building certification happening in various projects. So already the persuation is made with various clients across various states. Thereby there is a good chance to collect more amount as a result, the debt from that water INR400 crores is there that comes down. But we can’t say exactly the figure, maybe INR1,500 or maybe INR1,000 crores also. So at this moment, we cannot tell, but there would be some decline in the present level of debt what we are expecting
Deepak Poddar
Crores, right? That’s the debt level we have. Hello.
Neerad Sharma
Yeah. We have the debt level today at INR2,415 crores.
Deepak Poddar
A INR2,415 crores is what our current gross debt levels are.
Neerad Sharma
Yes. Yes, yes.
Deepak Poddar
Okay, okay, understood. And the point you mentioned about slowness, I mean because of which your FY ’25, I mean, we are underperforming, right? Earlier we were quite confident of 15% kind of a growth and now we have revised down to 5% kind of a growth.
R.S. Raju
Exactly, that is the purpose where we are restating our expectations.
Deepak Poddar
Okay. But things have settled it and settled down and you are seeing improvement at the ground on — in terms of activities and so some comment on that would be helpful, sir.
R.S. Raju
That’s today we could say there is an improvement that is — can be seen physically on-the-ground.
Deepak Poddar
Okay. Okay, okay. And just one last query on the margins. So 4th-quarter we are targeting around 9.5% kind of EBITDA margin, right, as per your guidance that you have given. So what will drive the margin improvement?
R.S. Raju
It is a general because even earlier also we were expecting — because the moment you have the turnover, say, at the expected level, the margin will be at the guidance level of 9.5%. This is what we are expecting in the 4th-quarter, it should normalize. If it normalizes, I’ll be getting a margin of 9.5%, which will help me to average it out to around 9.2%.
Deepak Poddar
Okay. Okay. And also because of leverage, I mean you are expecting much higher revenue in 4th-quarter, right? So that will give you some advantage in terms of higher scale of your revenue, right?
R.S. Raju
Generally what happens in the 4th-quarter in any construction industry in 4th-quarter revenues are higher than all the earlier 3/4. So the same expectation we are having even today.
Deepak Poddar
Okay, great. Great. And just one final thing, FY ’26, anything you can — I mean, some range you can — you can throw some light what sort of growth range we are looking at, that would be helpful.
R.S. Raju
Niran already explained to you that we have our budget meeting somewhere in April and definitely we’ll come back with our guidance at that point of time.
Deepak Poddar
Fair enough. Fair. Okay. Okay, sir. I mean, that’s very helpful. All the very best you. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go-ahead. Go-ahead.
Shravan Shah
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, sir. Sir, two, three data points. Inventory and the payable as on December is how much?
R.S. Raju
Inventories is INR1,442 crores, which is almost INR25 crores, INR27 crores less than September ’24, okay. And coming to the payables it is also 6,943 crores that INR43 crore payable also, right?
Shravan Shah
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. Understood. Second, sir, in terms of the — now in the 4th-quarter, the — in terms of the guidance, the capex, so INR223 crores we have done. So we will be doing the balance 25 crosodd crore or it would be a lower.
R.S. Raju
It is for the regular project. As and when we require, we buy it. So there are no further capital-intensive project maybe for the next one month. But this gap, whatever is there that INR27 crores, it is like any other year in a normal-course, whenever there is a requirement that comes from the project that will be taken.
Shravan Shah
Okay. And for JJM project, sir, how much now we would have executed and what is the left so just wanted to understand there also there is a decent slowdown in terms of the execution number-
R.S. Raju
One second, 8,000 is at the beginning. So-far we have executed 3,50 now stands at 478,000 is at the beginning of the year, okay. And 3,400 we have executed, okay. And balance is somewhere around INR4,4700.
Shravan Shah
Got it. Got it. And sir, in terms of the employee cost also last quarter we said there was some increment and everything was there, 8% increment was there. But even this quarter also, if I look at the employee cost also, so Q-o-Q has also — it has gone up. So in second-quarter, it was INR189 odd crore, now INR193 crore. So can you help us?
Neerad Sharma
Yes. There are two elements for increase in the salary costs. The first one is there is an increase in the headcount. Already we plan about 15% to 20% growth for the current year. Accordingly, we appointed the people. So we appointed the people, but the progress is not taking place. That is number-one. Number two is already in the July 1st July onwards, we have enhanced the salaries about 9% to 10%. The two points resulted into the higher percentage of salaries in this quarter.
Shravan Shah
Okay. Okay. Got it. Got it. Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Perve from Nuvama Group. Please go-ahead.
Parvesh Qazi
Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. So couple of questions from our side. With regards to JJM project, have we seen any kind of payment slowdown, especially considering that there have been central elections this year or are payments regular and in-line with, let’s say, what you had seen in FY ’23 or ’24
Neerad Sharma
Okay, Mister Kaje, good afternoon. I think during the course of attempting to answer several questions we have tried to make this point that there has been generally you know an impact on — across these schemes across these states. And this project is not an exception. So we have seen this kind of impact in — across these schemes, different projects of the government and elections have played a very important role in that.
Parvesh Qazi
Sure. So just to be labor on this point, this kind of payment slowdown, I mean, which is obviously has been across the industry, is it restricted only to state government projects or have the central government projects also seen this payment presence?
Neerad Sharma
MR. Kajee, in most of the infrastructure projects barring a few, generally the central government and state governments partner with each other. In most of the projects barring possibly NHI road projects, those kind of schemes. In multitude of the infrastructure projects, both these governments partner with each other. And it is difficult to say for what — for us, what really matters is, you know, the final payment, whether it is delayed by the state government or central government, the impact on us continues to be the same.
Parvesh Qazi
So second on the project that we have in Andhra Pradesh, two things on the existing projects or let’s say — let’s forget about the payment, but have you seen any activity in terms of new order award in
Neerad Sharma
Two kinds of activities. The first one is, our clients are trying to close the projects which were awarded in the past. So that’s a clear direction, that’s a clear thinking that we get to see. And our client, the state government is also planning to start the process of awarding the contracts for this capital city. So we continue to see movement.
Parvesh Qazi
Sure. And lastly, any update on the smart meter project would be. Thank you
R.S. Raju
The smart meter projects, as far as the Maharashtra is concerned, earlier in our earlier con-calls, we have told that because of the directions in the, we slowed down. But we expect that because the government now stabilized and we are getting the clearances also from the government, we expect the projects will take-off now. And as far as the Bihar project is concerned, we have already started and the installation of the meters is going on there. Yeah. About 3 lakh metres we have already installed.
Parvesh Qazi
Sure, thanks and all the best.
R.S. Raju
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Dhananjay Mishra from Sunidhi Securities. Please go-ahead.
Dhananjay Mishra
Hello, sir. So in terms of pipeline, you said INR2.4 lakh crores. So any big expressway project we are expecting in this pipeline from the Maastra.
Neerad Sharma
It’s very difficult. Whenever we talk about a very, very big prospective pipeline of projects, there would be projects from different verticals. I am not really in a position to identify a particular project. As I shared with you, these projects are prospective pipeline of projects. So there are several — several, you know several projects there. So I’m not really in a position to identify a particular project.
Dhananjay Mishra
No, I just wanted to know because some big projects are awaited in Maharashtra to be announced in next 12 months. So whether we have included in those projects in our pipeline or it is not part of our pipeline.
Neerad Sharma
They would be they would be. Whenever big projects are announced, generally it would be part of the prospective pipeline of projects.
Dhananjay Mishra
Okay. And secondly, on JJM project, sir, the payment delay is because of this revised allocation for FY ’24, which was down from close to INR70,000 crore to now INR200 crore. And then again, it has been increased for FY ’26. So that is the major reason central government contribution not coming on-time and that is the reason we are facing delay.
Neerad Sharma
I think we have already answered this question that this the impact has been across the schemes of the different infra projects across the state government. So practically, we have seen the impact and after effects in almost all the verticals, it would not possibly be correct to identify a single project, which is we don’t have a single project. We have a lot of projects about 150, 160 odd projects under execution.
Dhananjay Mishra
Okay, so that is all from my side, all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Shah from JM Financial Institutional Securities. Please go-ahead.
Vaibhav Shah
Sir, how have been the recoveries in the 4th-quarter so-far?
Neerad Sharma
4th-quarter recoveries 4th-quarter collections have been to say.
Vaibhav Shah
Collections here. Yeah, yeah.
Neerad Sharma
Elections are fairly good. There is a regular.
Vaibhav Shah
But we have seen an improvement on a quarter-on-quarter basis
Neerad Sharma
That we should see now because we just passed only one and a half month and another one and a half month is there. We need to see. And generally the government’s — government project, they will get funds released during the March month because by the time their budgets will get expired.
Vaibhav Shah
Okay. Sir, secondly, we are expecting the EBITDA margins to improve in the 4th-quarter to around 9.5% levels. So going-forward, while we are not giving a guidance, but is there a possibility that there would be an improvement further as well or these are more sustainable levels around 9.5%.
R.S. Raju
I think we work-out on that one. Here it is not one particular process to work-out to tell that one. We have several divisions and across several, several projects are there and particularly in the 3rd-quarter, we have received new orders. And in 4th-quarter also, we are expecting several orders, conversion of OEM at present alone orders into LOES. So basing on consolidating the total, then when we carry-out the budget process, then only we able to arrive the one EBITDA percentage for the FY ’26.
Vaibhav Shah
Okay. And sir, another question was on — if you look at the quarterly interest cost, it is roughly around on an average INR160 odd crores for the — for the nine months. So do we expect the run-rate to remain similar in Q4 as well.
R.S. Raju
Yes, in the similar line are a little — we won’t expect any reduction because in the already one month or one-week or but we have not seen any good collections from the pending awards.
Vaibhav Shah
Okay. And sir, lastly, what would be our AP exposure as of now? The net number that we share every quarter?
R.S. Raju
So exports were two-parts. About the first-quarter of our capacity projects, we have pending of INR150 crores that we expect to receive by end of March. There is a positive momentum happening and they are sure to pay before the March of this current financial year is part one. Part two, we have around INR400 crores INR450 crores exposure in the running projects, out of which we received nearly INR230 crores in the 3rd-quarter itself. So only balance now about INR200 crore INR50 crores exposure only is there in the other running provision.
Vaibhav Shah
So currently, as of December is INR250 crores and we received INR200 crores in Q3. So it reduced to INR250 crores in December
R.S. Raju
So as quarterly INR230 crores we received in Q3, but in the general month or also some INR30 crore to INR40 crore payments we collected.
Vaibhav Shah
Okay. And sir, lastly, any update on the deal, so when do we expect to receive the debt amount?
Neerad Sharma
As far as the investment is concerned, completely that is received. It equity is completely received. There is no due on that. And as far as the loan is concerned, about INR350 crores. We feel that INR15 crores is the loan amount, INR74. INR374 is the loan amount and in the current year, we’ve issued about INR15 crores against the interest amount. And this INR374 crores also we are expecting to get realized in the next couple of years?
Vaibhav Shah
Okay. Okay. I will come back-in the queue. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Diraj Ram from Ashika Institutional Equities. Please go-ahead.
Dheeraj Ram
Hi, sir. Thank you for taking up my question. Sir, we have recently received a project-related to River per. So how do we see the pipeline of the project in River InterLinking and what kind of opportunities can we expect going-forward?
Neerad Sharma
We understand from the various media reports that you know the center linking of River is a very important project for the government of India and the respective state governments. We believe the action has just started. We have a lot of road to cover. We are hopeful that we will continue to see healthy pipeline of projects in the interlinking of Rivers as well.
Dheeraj Ram
Sir, if you can put a figure to it, what kind of opportunities, what is the magnum of opportunity that we can expect in this project?
Neerad Sharma
Sir, we don’t really make any assessment of these kind of opportunities. At the end-of-the day, this is the call of the government and the respective agencies. What we try to do is to when this NIT, what we call notice for the bid is announced, we try to study the final nuances of the project, look at the risk-reward equation and then we decide whether to participate or not, depending on the technical complexity of the project, depending on the permissions which might may require depending on the funding that might be required, then we take a view.
Dheeraj Ram
Understood, sir. Last question, sir, have we started the exhibition for this project?
Neerad Sharma
Say that again, could you please repeat your question?
Dheeraj Ram
Have we started the execution for the project?
Neerad Sharma
No, no, we have not. We have not as of now.
Dheeraj Ram
Okay. So we can expect it to start in Q1 FY ’26.
Neerad Sharma
Sorry, could you please repeat your voice is also not very clear. There is lot of.
Dheeraj Ram
Sir, can you hear me now? Sir, can you hear me now?,
Neerad Sharma
Please tell me.
Dheeraj Ram
Sir, can we expect the execution to start in Q1 FY ’26?
Neerad Sharma
It depends on the permission, the approval of the drawings and how we are — we are hopeful.
Dheeraj Ram
Okay, sir. Okay. Thank you.
Neerad Sharma
Thank you. Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Parth Thakkar from JM Financial. Please go-ahead.
Parth Thakkar
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity what would be share of smart meter orders in a standalone.
Operator
Sorry to interrupt Path. Could you please speak a little louder? You’re not audible.
Parth Thakkar
Audible now?
Operator
No, your voice is breaking.
Parth Thakkar
Am I audible now? Hi.
Operator
Yes, yes, please go-ahead.
Parth Thakkar
Sir, what would be the share of our smart meter orders in our standalone order backlog?
R.S. Raju
Or somewhere around 9%.
Parth Thakkar
9%. Okay. And we were expecting to complete our JJM order book of INR4,700 crores by June 2025. Are we still on-track for that?
R.S. Raju
It would — you can still depend on the permission, the payments, our ability to mobilize, it would depend on a lot of parameters.
Parth Thakkar
So we cannot put a particular timeline on it, can we?
R.S. Raju
We would hope to meet the guidance, but we have to wait-and-watch.
Parth Thakkar
And my last question, what would be our capex guidance for this whole year for the balancing three months?
R.S. Raju
And it was — the budget was INR250 crores and we have spent so-far INR223 crores. We expect that we will be spending up to that limit.
Parth Thakkar
Okay. Thank you. That’s all from my side.
R.S. Raju
Thank you.
Operator
The next ladies and gentlemen, a reminder, you may press star and one to ask a question. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Pritvi Raj from Unified Capital. Please go-ahead.
Prithvi Raj
I just have one bookkeeping question. If you look at the tax-rate for nine months, it’s almost at 25% 26 percentage. Can we assume similar tax-rate even for Q4?
R.S. Raju
So the effective tax-rate is lesser actually because we have received dividend, which is a pass-through mechanism, it is not taxable. That is the reason the effective tax-rate is.
Neerad Sharma
So he is asking for 4th-quarter.
Prithvi Raj
I didn’t get you. You know, even for Q4, is it going to be a similar number or will it be higher?
Neerad Sharma
Similar percent base.
Prithvi Raj
Okay, thanks.
Operator
The next question comes from the line of Vishal Pariwal from Antique Stock Broking. Please go-ahead.
Vishal Periwal
Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. One data point. In terms of smart meter order that we have, we did mention Bihar, we have executed 3 lakh odd meters. So what is the total size of it? And similarly, what is the total size of Maharashtra order?
Neerad Sharma
The total number of values or the number of order value. I repeat the total order value, order value that we have received for the Bihar project is approximately INR2,300 crores. And for the state of, we have received two smart meter projects. The approximate value of these two orders — I repeat the word order value would be INR5,700 crores.
Vishal Periwal
Okay. Sir, in terms of number of meters, but it will be tendamount to work, sir?
Neerad Sharma
It would run into millions, multiples of millions.
Vishal Periwal
Okay. Okay. Will it be fair to give some number? Number Bihar and separately?
Neerad Sharma
At this stage, difficult at this stage to share any number.
Vishal Periwal
Okay, okay, okay. And then, yeah, maybe one last thing. I think in terms of execution that we have seen and the pie-chart that we have given, so maybe just before that. So the JGM work, is it part of irrigation, right? Is it fair to understand? It’s a part of water and?
Neerad Sharma
Which one, could you repeat the name of the project?
Vishal Periwal
Yeah, the JJM work that we do. Is it a part of Waterplus railway segment in the execution, the pie that we have done or it’s a part of irrigation
Neerad Sharma
Irrigation is separate water and railways together.
Vishal Periwal
Okay. So the GGM is a part of which segment, sir?
R.S. Raju
You’re asking about thisone projects.
Vishal Periwal
Correct.
R.S. Raju
Since these projects have come at a time in a magnitude level, here three divisions are executing the Gelgium projects, water division mainly executing that one, plus some part of the work taken over by the building division and some part of the work taken over by theoretical divisions, three divisions executing in different parts of the state and the turnover of the turnover from these water projects are also included in the respective divisional numbers.
Operator
Thank you, sir. We will move to the next participant, that is Sanket Kapoor from Kapoor Company. Please go-ahead.
Saket Kapoor
We are and thank you for the opportunity. Sir, firstly, if you could just reiterate our — I mean, Q4 execution growth if in percentage terms, sir, as you have mentioned that Q4 is generally the largest of the preceding 3/4, hello. And last year, we did a revenue closer to INR6,500 crore on a consol level. So when you were giving the growth number for the entire year, if you could just elaborate more on the same. I missed your commentary on the same hello.
R.S. Raju
It was at INR500 crores. Now in-quarter more or less same level. Now in the 4th-quarter, the execution, the execution will be on consolidated between INR6,000 to INR6,400 crores we are expecting.
Saket Kapoor
So we are giving a bank from INR6,000 crore to INR6,400 crores for the 4th-quarter. So it will be a flattish quarter in that sense when you look at year-on-year numbers. In terms of execution. Hello.
R.S. Raju
Yes, it will be similar or it will be little less.
Saket Kapoor
Okay. And sir, about the Bharat Net project also, what is our current stat — what is the current status on the same and why I think so we ha we were participant in in quite of the circus. So any update on the same, sir
R.S. Raju
Kapoor, could you please repeat your question?
Saket Kapoor
Sir, I was looking at our order intake from the Bharat Phase-3. Any update on the same? What are we in terms of — where are we in terms of the order of order intake from this project?
R.S. Raju
We have not received any order from them as of now. And as a matter of policy, until and unless we get a confirm order from a client, we do not really talk about that. That is quite speculative in nature until and unless we receive a formal communication from the client, which hasn’t as you know, happened as we speak.
Saket Kapoor
Okay. And lastly, sir, for the month of January, there — in your press release, in the opening month — February 1st date, you mentioned that we did not receive any order. So if you could just articulate hello. What, what? Hello.
R.S. Raju
It is like this. What happened is that there was a news on the money control about received of a project. Then there was a inquiry like a request from the stock exchange on what is that project, why it was not announced. Generally, as a policy in a normal-course of business, we give announcement of the projects only at the end-of-the month. That is the reason we did not announce it. Since they have us, so we had to reply to them saying that it has happened on 7th of January. So we had to reply to them saying that as this policy is received, awarded to us, but we did not disclose it as a matter of policy, we disclose it at the end-of-the month. Since we have already told them, we said that we have not issued any other project other than this. So that’s how it has come.
Saket Kapoor
But when — sorry to dwell on it, but when we read the notification, it is mentioned there — correct me there that for the entire month of January, there was no order intake for the company. That was my point.
R.S. Raju
Because there was no other project other than this which has been received during the month. When we gave at the end-of-the month, the disclosure on the projects awarded, we — to avoid confusion, it was told very clearly because we have already disclosed it earlier, it was there on the website and informed the stock exchanges to avoid confusion, it was told that other than that, nothing has been issued.
Saket Kapoor
Okay. And sir, as a matter of
Operator
I would request you to rejoin the queue if you have any more. Please.
Saket Kapoor
Yes, yes, as join. Please give an opportunity later.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Shah from JM Financial Institutional Securities. Please go-ahead.
Vaibhav Shah
Hi, sir. I missed couple of data points. So you mentioned the working capital number in terms of crore. So what was it as of December?
R.S. Raju
As of December so you wanted this December right
Vaibhav Shah
Yeah this December and September as well.
R.S. Raju
September is 4,987
Vaibhav Shah
Okay.
R.S. Raju
And December it was 5,488.
Vaibhav Shah
So secondly, what was the retention money? Was it 17 57, if I heard it correctly?
R.S. Raju
Yeah yes.
Vaibhav Shah
Okay. And sir, what was the inventory number?
R.S. Raju
Inventory is 42.
Vaibhav Shah
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. Great.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that brings us to the end-of-the question-and-answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr Shah for the — from JM Financial Institutes for the closing comments.
Vaibhav Shah
Yeah. Thank you, sir bring up
Operator
Mr, please go-ahead.
Vaibhav Shah
Thank you, sir for giving us the opportunity. Any closing remarks from your end.
Neerad Sharma
Thank you very much. We appreciate your time and patience. And should you have any more questions about anything, we encourage you to get-in touch with us. Thank you very much. Good night. Bye.
R.S. Raju
Thank you all.
Neerad Sharma
Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of JM Financial Institutional Securities, that concludes this conference. You may now disconnect your lines.