Nazara Technologies Ltd (NSE: NAZARA) Q2 2025 Earnings Call dated Nov. 18, 2024
Corporate Participants:
Nitish Mittersain — Joint Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer
Anupriya Sinha Das — Head of Corporate Development
Sudhir Kamath — Chief Operating Officer
Analysts:
Gnanasundaram Saminathan — Analyst
Abhishek Kumar — Analyst
Jinesh Joshi — Analyst
Samarth Patel — Analyst
Manan Poladia — Analyst
Rahul Jain — Analyst
Nikhil Gupta — Individual Investor
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Nazara Technologies Limited Q2 and H1 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the Company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the Company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. [Operator Instructions]
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sundaram from Avendus Spark. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Gnanasundaram Saminathan — Analyst
Hey, thank you, Seju. This is Sundar from Avendus Spark. Hi, one and all. Festive greetings from our side. Avendus Spark is pleased to welcome you all to the Q2 and 1H FY ’25 conference call of Nazara Technologies Limited.
The management today is represented by Mr. Nitish Mittersain, our CEO and Managing Director; Mr. Sudhir Kamath, Chief Operating Officer; Mr. Rakesh Shah, Group CFO; and Ms. Anupriya Das, Head of Corporate Development.
I now hand the call to Nitish for opening remarks and then for the Q&A session. Over to you, Nitish.
Nitish Mittersain — Joint Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer
Hi, everyone. A very good morning. Let’s get started by looking at our numbers. In H1 FY ’25, we achieved revenues of INR569 crores and an EBITDA of INR50.1 crores, Q2 came in at INR318.9 crores with an EBITDA of INR25.2 crores. Our focus remains on driving profitable growth through both organic initiatives and strategic M&A with a strong emphasis at this point of time on the core game studio business. In Q2, we announced the raise of INR900 crores via preferential equity issue from a group of marquee investors. These funds will support both our organic and inorganic growth initiatives. We have made our largest investment till date in PokerBaazi parent Moonshine Technologies.
PokerBaazi is India’s dominant online poker platform backed by an extremely strong team and strong technology. With this step, we now have significant ownership in two market leaders, NODWIN Gaming in esports and PokerBaazi in the skill-based gaming space that further strengthens our position as India’s leading diversified gaming platform. Another important step this quarter was to acquire 100% ownership in Kiddopia parent Paper Boat Apps, and we also further increased our stake in Absolute Sports, the parent of Sportskeeda, in addition to acquiring a minority stake in an exciting fast-growing esports community app called Stan. Our intent has been to increase our ownership in our existing cash flow generating businesses.
In addition to that, the merger of Kiddopia parent Paper Boat Apps with Nazara Technologies Limited has been approved by our Board recently, and this step is aligned towards bringing core gaming businesses into the parent entity that will provide for fungible cash flows that can be subsequently deployed for organic and inorganic growth going forward. A key focus to improve operational efficiencies involves creating centers of excellence in various strategic areas such as data analytics, user acquisition, M&A and particularly artificial intelligence, which we believe can be used effectively to have a lot of positive impact on our businesses. We are also going to try and create centers of excellence for some back office operations such as HR, compliance and finance. We will continue to roll out these initiatives over the next 12 months and believe that these will bring significant benefits due to shared knowledge pools and provide opportunities also for cost optimization. Some of the initiatives in the last few quarters are showing early signs of positive impact that should be visible in our H2 performance.
With that, I now hand over the call to Anupriya, our Head of Corporate Development for further business highlights. Thank you very much, and over to you, Anupriya.
Anupriya Sinha Das — Head of Corporate Development
Thank you, Nitish. Good morning, everyone. As you are aware, Nazara operates across three business segments, gaming, esports and Adtech. We are well diversified across demographics, geography and business models. In H1 FY ’25, gaming contributed 36% of revenues and 66% of EBITDA, while esports contributed to 57% of revenues and 28% of EBITDA, Adtech — with Adtech accounts the remaining share [Phonetic].
North America continues to be our largest market with 39% revenue contribution, while India and rest of the world are at 31% and 30% respectively in H1 FY ’25. Within gaming, if you look at Kiddopia, the H1 FY ’22 [Phonetic] revenues was INR97.8 crores and EBITDA of INR22.4 crores with an EBITDA margin of 22.9%. In Q2 FY ’25, as Nitish mentioned, we completed the 100% acquisition of Paper Boats, the parent of Kiddopia. Subsequently, several changes have been initiated to drive growth via product changes, refreshed UA strategy and IP partnerships. We expect the results from these changes to be visible in the subsequent quarters.
In addition, Nazara’s Board of Directors has approved the merger of Paper Boats with Nazara Technologies Limited. This step is aligned towards us bringing core gaming businesses into the parent entity to provide the fungible cash flows that can subsequently be deployed for organic and inorganic growth.
Moving to Fusebox, Nazara has announced the acquisition of 100% stake in UK-based Fusebox Games, a well-established IP-based gaming studio. Fusebox has been consolidated from 23rd August 2024 in our books. During this time, the business reported revenues of INR23.2 crores with an EBITDA of INR4.5 crores.
Moving to Animal Jam. The core Animal Jam business is profitable and growing again. Product metrics for retention, engagement and monetization of users are healthy. In H1 FY ’25, the revenue increased by INR247.6 crores with an EBITDA of INR7.7 crores. We had higher investment in user acquisition in Q2 FY ’25, which is expected to pay back over the 12-month to 18-month period.
Moving to OpenPlay, the gross gaming revenues have declined only slightly as customers are still playing among this almost the same, while the portion paid out of the GST bonus has increased sharply from 13.4% to 46.7% of the gross gaming revenues. As a result, the net revenue, which is reported after GST and bonuses has fallen sharply. Profitability has dropped across the sector and smaller and midsized companies have been hit hardest by the change.
Moving to the Esports segment. This segment, the revenue grew by 8%, while EBITDA grew much faster by 36% in H1 FY ’25. NODWIN, NODWIN’s Q2 FY ’25 revenues grew by 4% compared to Q2 FY ’24. However, the like-for-like revenue growth was 111%, excluding Wings from Q2 FY ’24 numbers. The synergy and expansion base that was set last year has started seeing fruit in IPs and acquisition, especially Freaks 4U. NODWIN continues to be a content provider of choice for nearly all global mobile publishers. In H1 FY ’25, the year-on-year revenue, excluding Wings, grew by 69%.
The growth was led by strong performance from NODWIN’s proprietary IPs and live events such as BGMI Master Series 3, multiple activities at Gamescom, Snapdragon Pro Series, All that Matters Season 19, Esports World Cup global broadcast and Prime League for League of Legends. NODWIN has announced dates of new or expanded IPs entering in second half with Comic Con expansion to eight cities from existing five cities, PUBG Mobile in Uzbekistan, NH7 coming back for Season 14, and announcement of Playground Season 4. NODWIN will continue consolidating multiple assets worldwide in emerging markets while investing in organic growth, thereby expanding its share of international revenue. Notably, international revenues were 40% of total in H1 FY ’25 versus 15% in H1 FY ’24.
Moving to Sportskeeda. Sportskeeda continues to maintain its ranking amongst top 10 rank — top 10 U.S. sports news websites. Absolute Sports, the Group grew its revenue and EBITDA by 22% and 18% respectively in H1 FY ’25. The core Sportskeeda business continues to grow well both in terms of revenue and EBITDA. However, overall revenue reported were impacted due to a short-term dip in Pro Football Network, which recorded a year-on-year decline on EBITDA. Pro Football Network was impacted during September, which affected its traffic flow when the NFL season was starting. We believe this is a temporary glitch and the site should recover in the next few quarters.
Moving to the Adtech segment. During Q2 FY ’25, we continue to move away from lower-margin business. This strategic pivot resulted in a year-on-year revenue growth of 7% with the gross margin improving significantly, reflecting this higher share of product business. Throughout Q2 FY ’25, we have continued to invest in product development and increased marketing efforts, especially in the U.S. market. EBITDA remained stable as compared to Q2 FY ’24. We expect the impact from these investments to show in business outcomes during the coming quarters. Datawrkz through its 100% own step-down subsidiary, Datawrkz Operations UK acquired 100% of Space & Time Limited for an equity value of GBP4.8 million, around INR52.3 crores. This acquisition is a key move in advancing Datawrkz growth ambition across Europe and North America, positioning it as a scaled player in the global digital marketing.
With this, I conclude my remarks and we will now be open for Q&A. I invite Nitish, Sudhir and Rakesh here to join me for the session.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Abhishek Kumar from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Abhishek Kumar
Yeah, hi, good morning. So I have three questions on outlook. First on Kiddopia, I see that the cost per trial has gone up again and it has almost crossed $40. While I know we have been trying alternate ways of monetizing and acquiring users. So how should we look at this metric going forward? And — because what that is doing from what we see is that we are cutting down on our marketing spend and that is in a way impacting user acquisition and revenue. So just any color on both the cost of acquisition and our marketing strategy, which would have some bearing on the user acquisitions here.
Nitish Mittersain
Abhishek, hi, this is Nitish. So I think couple of points there. One is the reality is that the cost per trial has been kind of floating around this $40 mark, give or take, plus-minus 5%, and we haven’t really proactively cut down our marketing spends, but we’ve really not been able to find a easy way to scale the marketing dollars at this price point. And even if we were to increase it, we don’t see that kind of result. So I think we need to find alternate solutions to break out of this logjam. In my personal opinion, one big breakthrough is going to be partnering with popular IP and starting to integrate it within Kiddopia. And I think we are — while we’ve spoken about it generally over the last few quarters, we are very close to closing some IP transactions of meaningful large global IPs.
And I think that would help us in multiple ways. It could help us bring down our cost per trial because conversion rates would increase, it could help reduce churn, it would help generate organic traffic for us beyond just the paid acquisition that we are doing. So I’m quite bullish on this path that we are trying to take at this point of time. And hopefully, within this quarter, which is Q3, we should be in a position to at least announce one or two IP partnerships. So I think that’s one thing we are doing. The second thing is after acquiring 100% stake in the Company, there are a lot more hands on now, and there are multiple quick iterations we are doing in terms of price points, monthly versus quarterly versus annual type of subscription plans, etc. And I think we should be able to find some opportunities over there. So I think this is what we are currently doing in Kiddopia while maintaining our current marketing spends in the best efficient manner as possible.
Abhishek Kumar
Okay. No, that’s clear. Second is on NODWIN. So I noticed that while the headline number ex of Wings looks strong, but there would have been a consolidation of Freaks 4U, and from my calculations, if we remove that, the uptick that we generally see I think from Q1 to Q2 has not been very strong. So just general demand environment, both in terms of media rights and physical games and outlook for second half for NODWIN specifically. And if we can separately provide for Freaks 4U, that would be helpful.
Nitish Mittersain
Yeah. I’ll have Sudhir take this one.
Sudhir Kamath
Hey, Abhishek, thanks for asking that question. So if we actually remove Freaks 4U, we would still see about 40% kind of organic growth across the other businesses. And keeping in mind that the key quarters for NODWIN are ahead, we think we’re quite well positioned for good growth in this year.
Abhishek Kumar
Okay. Maybe just one clarification. You know the revenue composition of Freaks 4U, would that be similar to NODWIN in India in terms of media rights and sponsorship revenue, etc.?
Sudhir Kamath
The core business model and therefore the core revenue streams are similar in the sense of owned IPs plus helping others, the white label IPs for esports events as well as a little bit of media, not too much on that side, but very similar in that sense to NODWIN. The cost structures are slightly different, of course, where that’s a company based in Germany, Switzerland, Central Europe, Middle Europe. So therefore, that cost structure is higher. And one of the things that NODWIN [Phonetic] will be able to leverage is its India team, its Turkey team to also help drive more profitable revenue for [Technical Issues], core businesses…
Abhishek Kumar
Okay. One last question is on margin and again, outlook. Despite us moving towards higher-margin business on a Y-o-Y basis, there was a dip in EBITDA margin. Now going forward, how should we look at overall margins for the Company? Can we get back to double-digit within this year itself or any color on the way forward on margin? Thank you.
Sudhir Kamath
So in general, I think we’ve kind of tried to steer away from giving any specific guidance on this, but we do expect second half to be stronger. For many of the businesses, that’s the biggest season or most key season. So we do expect that, but I don’t think we give any specific guidance at this point, Abhishek.
Abhishek Kumar
Sure. Thank you, and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jinesh Joshi from Prabhudas Lilladher Capital. Please go ahead.
Jinesh Joshi
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I have a bookkeeping question. You have mentioned that our depreciation increased in 2Q due to amortization of Freaks and Fusebox. But if I look at the number on sequential basis or even on Y-o-Y basis, it appears to be quite high. So is this an amortization or some kind of a write-down, if you can clarify on that? And if it is not a write-down, is this the new run rate going ahead? That is one. And the second question is also if I look at our employee cost, it has moved up considerably and I believe it is predominantly due to consolidation of Freaks. And in the past, you had mentioned that there were some challenges to kind of cut down the staff on the — on this business, which operates in Germany. So is the consolidation the primary reason for rising cost and do you expect it to taper off going ahead and what should be the run rate?
Sudhir Kamath
Jinesh, thanks for the question again. Two quick responses. So one is, these are not write-downs. These are amortization of the acquisition. Higher expenses are for two reasons. One is the [Technical Issues] cost that we mentioned. And the other is — we talked about deal-related expenses, which have been expense of [Indecipherable] cost. That covers both questions or is there any?
Jinesh Joshi
Sure. So that means from third quarter, the depreciation run rate should ideally be lower, right?
Sudhir Kamath
It may be amortization of intangibles. I’ll need to come back to you on whether the run rate will drop. It probably should, but maybe later in the call, we can — I’ll just check our exact data and come back to you on that one.
Jinesh Joshi
Sure. And sir, on the employee cost side, if you can clarify?
Sudhir Kamath
So on the employee cost side, as we said, there definitely is a move to have more of the projects which are there for the esports events delivered out of India and Turkey or leveraging those parts. So as the revenue keeps growing, which we expect, the percentage cost which is being delivered from offshore will increase, therefore, that impact as well. So overall, as a percentage, we do expect employee cost to drop [Technical Issues].
Jinesh Joshi
Okay. And sir, my second question is on Kiddopia. I mean, you responded to earlier participant’s question that we’re trying to close some IP partnerships and basically boost the organic user acquisition. But have any of your peers been able to do that recently in the U.S. market? And once the partnership deal is concluded, which you highlighted that it may in 3Q, what kind of growth can we expect? Because we have seen the subscriber numbers dwindle for quite a few quarters. So if you can just kind of give some insights on growth?
Nitish Mittersain
Sure. I’ll answer that. This is Nitish. So far, we have seen several companies in the U.S. as well as in U.K., which are focused on kids IP or kids related content which have taken the IP approach and been quite successful. They have been able to overcome the user acquisition challenges and grow the business. So we are very hopeful of emulating the same. It’s not a first time attempt. We’ve seen other companies successfully do that playbook and we are just now replicating the same. It’s taken us some time because our idea was to really go for best-in-class IP. And as we announced, you will see that the quality of IP we are bringing to the table is important. It is important to note that given that we are working with global IP, it will take us at least a couple of quarters to really launch, but we are trying to accelerate it as soon as possible.
Jinesh Joshi
Sure, sir. One last question from my side and that is on margin, the NODWIN business and the Fusebox business. So in NODWIN, despite the consolidation of Freaks, I mean at EBITDA, we have barely managed a breakeven. So how should we think of profitability from here on? That is question one. And also in Fusebox, I mean if I look at the Jan to July number which you had shared when we acquired Fusebox, the margin was 28% [Phonetic], but now in the consolidation period, it has fallen to about 19%. So if you can highlight the reason behind that as well?
Nitish Mittersain
Sure. So I think coming first to Fusebox, because these games are related to TV IP, during the summer months, they have a much larger organic spike because the TV shows air on — on air in the U.K. as well as in the U.S., we are probably seeing a period of higher revenues during that period. I think we should look at Fusebox margins similar to our other gaming company margins, whether it is Kiddopia or the other IPs that we have, like Animal Jam, we will be aiming for that 20% to 25% kind of EBITDA margin on a steady state.
On NODWIN Gaming, I think Q3, Q4 is definitely the main seasons for this business and you will see better EBITDA margins coming. Overall as a business, I think we are at a point where we are starting to push for higher margins. There is strong alignment with the team and hopefully you will also see that play out in the coming financial year beyond Q3, Q4.
Jinesh Joshi
Got it. Thank you, sir. Thank you, and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Samarth Patel from Equirus Securities Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Samarth Patel
Yeah. Thanks for providing the opportunity. Am I audible?
Operator
Yes, sir.
Samarth Patel
Yeah. So given we are currently focusing on growth in PokerBaazi, what kind of top line CAGR, let’s say, we can expect for next three years? And should we be able to sustain the current margin trajectory or would we try to improve upon it as well? So that’s the first question.
Nitish Mittersain
Sure. So I’m going to take that. On PokerBaazi, look, at this point of time, we are not consolidating the business. So until we consolidate the business, you will not see direct impact on our financials. At the same time, PokerBaazi is by far India’s most dominant poker platform, going at a very healthy 30% to 40% year-on-year growth rate. And this business, as it expands, as it scales, the margins would actually significantly expand, because one of the core costs besides the increased GST payout is the money being spent on branding. And I think that will pay off rich dividends on this business over a period of time. So we expect over two years, three years, this to be a very highly cash generating business, but more specific numbers we will be able to give in coming quarters.
Samarth Patel
That was really helpful. Now coming to the Adtech segment, like with the combining Space & Time’s growth marketing expertise with the Datawrkz, what kind of synergies we are expecting here? If you can just double click into that? And any revenue uptake in near term if we would be able to see in this particular Adtech segment which has been stagnant for some time now for us?
Nitish Mittersain
Yeah, I think there are three points here. One is Datawrkz on its own, we are starting to see better output for many of the businesses, especially on the product side. And I think on a standalone basis it will continue to improve in Q3, Q4 and beyond. Now with Space & Time, which is a sizable business in relation to existing size of Datawrkz, there are at least a couple of immediate synergies. One is many of the products made by Datawrkz now can be sold in the U.K. and European market by Space & Time, therefore, expanding the revenue opportunity quite quickly. The second is Datawrkz can do some of the work that Space & Time in terms of execution and therefore lead to cost optimization for the Space & Time business, again creating an uplift of margins. So we expect some of these synergies to show impact in the next couple of quarters. So I think you’ll really see the large impact of it in FY ’26. But yeah, this business will add significant EBITDA to Datawrkz and the Adtech’s business existing EBITDA.
Samarth Patel
Thank you for that, sir. And the last question from my side is what kind of revenue and EBITDA contribution that we can see from the upcoming Big Brother game for Fusebox? So is it a medium term kind of play for us or should we see some revenue uptick in the near term from the Big Brother game?
Nitish Mittersain
I mean we aim to launch the game in Q1 of FY ’26. And in games usually, you will soft launch it for a three months, four months, iterate the KPIs and then make it mainstream. So I think Q2 or Q3 FY ’26 onwards, we should be able to see the impact. Big Brother of course, as you know is a large, well established IP and we have global rights for it. So we are obviously very hopeful that we should be able to monetize it at scale. And you’ve already seen the kind of scale the existing IP, Love Island is doing.
Samarth Patel
Thank you. And just one last question from my side. Any further updates on the Smaaash Entertainment? If you can just give some color on that, that would be really, really helpful.
Nitish Mittersain
Yeah, it is still in the NCLT process. We hope to get approval in the next couple of months or so.
Samarth Patel
Thank you so much for taking my questions and best of luck for the next quarter.
Nitish Mittersain
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Manan [Phonetic] from MKP [Phonetic] Securities. Please go ahead.
Manan Poladia
Hello. Hi. First of all, congratulations on posting a good set. I have a couple of questions, first with respect to PokerBaazi, like you said that the margins will go higher. If you could just call out the margins before the GST issue and right now in EBITDA terms, because I know you report revenue net of GST, right? If you could just give us some guidance on that? And another suggestion is if you could — even if you are not incorporating PokerBaazi numbers into your consol books, if you could just call them out on the presentation, I think that would be slightly helpful.
Nitish Mittersain
Yeah. So as we are still in the final process of closing the transaction, we thought it would make sense to start providing more detailed information from Q3 onwards. So I won’t share specific margin profile right now. But generally if you look at pre and post-GST, new GST policy implementation, all cost — GST costs are basically four times [Phonetic] for most companies.
Manan Poladia
Right. So that’s a number we can work with, right?
Nitish Mittersain
Yeah.
Manan Poladia
And sir, my second question is with respect to the business that we are already in with Classic Rummy. Do we see any place to scale it some sort of tie-up with PokerBaazi or endorsement from PokerBaazi or something of that sort? And how are we thinking about the current existing business that we have in RMG?
Sudhir Kamath
So let me take that one, Manan. See, the existing business, which is OpenPlay, that is relatively smaller scale. So the — as we called out in our presentation as well, the smaller companies have been worst hit. So just to put numbers to what you had asked earlier, this is a business which was doing, say, 25%, 30% EBITDA margins before the GST change, now effectively all of that is going towards higher GST and we’ve seen just about breakeven kind of numbers. We are doing a lot in terms of operational changes to help move that number up, but we still expect that to be in the maybe low single digits to early teens kind of numbers in the coming quarters.
Baazi is different because it’s the market leader in poker and has a much larger scale. There we do expect margins to be higher, even post GST, but in the present period, it will also be investing a lot of money back into brand marketing. It’s already the leader, it wants to have a dominant position. So over time, I think it will be a different profile. I think in the initial bit it will be slightly different. And as Nitish mentioned in the previous one, right now we’re not in any case consolidating the revenue and EBITDA for Baazi, and obviously you’ll be informed on that as well.
Manan Poladia
Right. Understood. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Rahul Jain
Hello?
Nitish Mittersain
Hi, Rahul.
Operator
Yes, sir, you’re audible.
Rahul Jain
Yes. So thanks for the opportunity. So basis some of the input that has been shared so far, if I do a back-of-the-envelope calculation, it seems like we are expecting a very strong profitability in Q3, Q4 with some consolidation coming into play as well as the improved commentary on the profitability. So is it safer to assume the favorable seasonality of H2 would be more sharper this time versus the past trend?
Nitish Mittersain
Yes. Hi, Rahul. I believe so that we should see a very positive H2.
Rahul Jain
Right. And from Kiddopia perspective, this IP — upcoming IP announcement that you are talking about, let’s assume it fructifies over Q3, then ideally what is the time lag between some of these things actually playing into the CAC benefit or retention benefit? Is there any trend or observation that you might have seen that could help us build our thought process on the business?
Nitish Mittersain
So assuming we close a couple of IP — IPs in Q3, we would definitely try to launch them into Kiddopia in Q1 of FY ’26. If earlier possible, then we will do it, but I’m saying on a safer side, Q1 FY ’26, because these IPs have a lot of approval processes, etc. because of — we are working with global companies, large companies. So Q1 FY ’26, we will launch and hopefully we should be able to see early signs very quickly, maybe within a month, 45 days, two months of launching. So hopefully we should be able to report back something in Q1 ’26. If not, then most definitely have some clarity of how it is going to help — how it is helping us or going to help us in Q2 of FY ’26.
Rahul Jain
Okay. And since there is still some time away from that point to happen, what should be the interim strategy in this business? Because I understand the reason of not spending so much on marketing is also about the kind of a retention metric that you’re seeing and what kind of LTV/CAC you may be getting. But if you think with these IP or customer acquisition is going to improve later on and retention may improve on the across portfolio, will it make sense to start scaling up on the spends or general retention strategy to sustain the momentum right from post announcement of IP or that step up would only happen once we are launching those IP in the game?
Nitish Mittersain
Yeah, no, I think irrespective of IP or not, right, our objective and focus obviously is to enhance and improve the business metrics in all aspects. And I think we are looking at it at multiple areas. One, I think there’s a significant product enhancement we can do which has not happened for quite some time. Generally just standard content updates were happening. But we’re looking at introducing new elements to the product which will, I think, add more value to the children playing it, but also the parents, who are downloading it or actually paying for it, right? So we have some parent tools, etc. that we are going to introduce. So I think one is increased focus on the product. Second is I think there’s a lot of opportunity in experimenting with different price points, different periods of subscription, different periods of free trial that we give to the consumer, different geographies. Restarted a thrust [Phonetic] in geographic expansion which had kind of taken a backseat in the last, I would say 18 months or so. So I think there are multiple accesses that we are working on besides the IP. So it’s not that we are only betting on the IP initiative. Beyond that, I think there’s a lot we are doing on an ongoing basis and you will see momentum pick up on that now that we have taken over this business completely.
Rahul Jain
Right. And how the capital allocation in the — of the funds that you might have in the Kiddopia subsidiary? What the strategy would change once now this is integrated? Will that — will this unit will be — can be leveraged to do subsequent M&A or this is not the thought process at this point?
Nitish Mittersain
Two things, we are looking at a couple of kids IP that we may invest in and acquire but it’s early days. So we get good opportunity, we will do that. But also remember that we are going to merge Paper Boat with Nazara, which means that we will have these funds available at the Nazara level to deploy wherever we need to.
Rahul Jain
Fair enough. Fair enough. Thank you. And that’s it from my side.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions]
Nitish Mittersain
If there are no further questions, we can wrap up.
Operator
Sir, we have one question. The next question is from the line of Nikhil Gupta, who is an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.
Nikhil Gupta
Hey, everyone. Good morning. So Nitish, I just want to understand a long-term aspect in the sense that, let’s say, four years, five years down the line, which segment do you think will contribute more revenue and EBITDA? Will be the core gaming segment or it will be the NODWIN, the esports segment?
Nitish Mittersain
Difficult to give a perspective four years, five years out. But at this point of time I’m actually very bullish on all three key segments I would say. So just to deep dive specifically, right? The core gaming studio business I think has a lot of potential to scale. I think we can really build a large business out of India and especially with the new initiatives that we’re doing, which is building center of excellence around AI, etc., I think there’s a lot of optimization we can do to studios that we are acquiring and scale them. So this will also be a high-margin business and a high cash flow generating business. So we will continue to build it out.
NODWIN, of course has been scaling revenues. The EBITDA margins have been lagging. But like I was mentioning earlier, I think going forward, the focus is now going to be to also start increasing EBITDA margins wherever we can. So three years, four years out, hopefully that should deliver good EBITDA because there’s a lot to catch up on that front. The Adtech business with certain recent steps we have done should grow in EBITDA. And I think the RMG business, especially with our large position now in a market leader like PokerBaazi can be a very large cash generating business for us. So in that sense, I think directionally all three businesses, four businesses of ours are in the right direction. And I think three years, four years out, we must — we should and we must see much higher EBITDA margin profile from where we are today.
Operator
Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Nitish for closing comments.
Nitish Mittersain
Yeah. Thank you everyone for joining the call. Looking forward to speaking to all of you again in Q3. Have a good day.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks]