Motherson Sumi Wiring India Ltd (MSUMI) Q1 FY23 Earnings Concall Transcript

Motherson Sumi Wiring India Ltd (NSE: MSUMI) Q1 FY23 Earnings Concall dated Aug. 05, 2022

Corporate Participants:

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Kapil Singh — Nomura — Analyst

Anurag Gahlot — Chief Operating Officer

Pankaj —

G N Gauba — Chief Financial Officer

Analysts:

Jinesh Gandhi — Motilal Oswal Financial Services — Analyst

Aman Agarwal — Carnelian Capital — Analyst

Karan Kulkarni — Ambit Capital — Analyst

Saurabh — Ambit Capital — Analyst

Kirupa Shankar — Choice Equity — Analyst

Vinod Malviya — Union Mutual Fund — Analyst

Presentation:

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen. Good day and welcome to the Q1 FY23 Earnings Conference Call of Motherson Sumi Wiring India Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in a listen-only mode. And there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vivek Chaand Sehgal, Chairman. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Thank you very much. Good afternoon, good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I think you have seen the results. We believe there are 100% [Indecipherable] is a very good set of numbers. And without much delay, I hand it over back to master assemblies to make sure that your questions are answered by us. With me are Anurag, Gauba, Pankaj, Raman, all of us are here to answer your questions. Thank you very much.

Back to you.

Questions and Answers:

 

Operator

Yes, sir. We are in the conference, just give me a minute, waiting for the other members. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Kapil Singh from Nomura. Please go ahead.

Kapil Singh — Nomura — Analyst

Good afternoon, Sir. I had two questions. Firstly on this dedicated line we have set up in Chennai for high voltage harnesses. I wanted to understand that to start off with which category of vehicles that is passenger vehicles, commercial or two-wheeler are we starting off with? And also if you have any calculations here in terms of content for each of these three categories, how much increases there? And also some color on technology aspect, like what are the special requirements which are there for high voltage harnesses?

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Okay. Anuraj, net conference, can you take this?

Anurag Gahlot — Chief Operating Officer

Yeah. Thank you very much for your question. This line, which we are able to set up in Chennai, as we have mentioned this for both passenger cars, as well as the two-wheelers and also commercial vehicles, which includes basically the buses as well. So it’s for all three of them, which have been initiated during this quarter. You also asked that what are the specialties of handling these, so basically high voltage cables required, very special equipment for processing them. There are multiple operations, which are there.

So a different set of machine requirements, different set of testing requirements, and complete testing and validation before they get shipped to the customer. So it’s a different level of processing of these cables and connectors, terminals thereof, which is required to fulfill the requirement.

In terms of set prices or what kind of value addition, it’s very different from different makers and it’s no comparison to the low voltage cables, because as you would know that high voltage cables have much different specs, and the need to carry this much higher level of copper and other things.

And therefore, they are much more expensive than the low voltage side of the — part of the harnesses. In the passenger cars, nearly 75%, 80% of the wiring harnesses remained low voltage. And basically, the engine side goes off in terms of that — against that these high voltage cables come into picture. So I hope that answers your questions.

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

[Speech Overlap] different, isn’t it.

Anurag Gahlot — Chief Operating Officer

Sorry, Mr. Seghal.

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

I was just saying that care has to be taken for the high-voltage cables because if it start taking care of, then people can get electrocuted. So that’s the difference — which is a huge difference between car. Car is operating at 12 volts and maybe 40, 80 amps at max and high voltage cables go up to 120, 140, 180 amps. So huge difference in handling otherwise the lines are special.

Kapil Singh — Nomura — Analyst

Sure, sir. Now what would help at some point, if you could share in terms of, let’s say our index value of passenger vehicle in highs and similar vehicle, electric vehicle like how much is the percentage increase that would really help in understanding for all three of these categories? If you have it ready, we can take it now, otherwise probably later on at some point that would really help.

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

You see the advantages and disadvantages is Pankaj will just explain that to you. But it depends upon the facilities that the carmaker wants to give you. So as facilities go up, the complication goes higher and higher. But, Pankaj, I’ll leave it to you to explain.

Pankaj —

Yeah. That’s exactly my point was it because it’s so variable and it varies a lot. But in many cases, the high-voltage part of the — if you take the charging connectors to the high-voltage cables that are going into the vehicle itself, it can be as expensive as the low voltage side of it as well. So it can be varying from model to model also.

Kapil Singh — Nomura — Analyst

Okay, sir. And the second question is on the cost side. Just broad question after a long time, we are seeing some drop in commodities now playing out. So by when do you think we will start to see the benefit of that, is it from second quarter onwards as a company and as an industry, should we expect the benefit of commodities to flow through?

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Pankaj.

Pankaj —

Sorry.

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Okay, go ahead, Gauba.

G N Gauba — Chief Financial Officer

Kapil as we have consistently maintained and said that, we have a pass-through for copper, as well as for the Japanese yen. So while in a percentage term it does help if the price comes down lower in the quarter. But over a period of time as the prices did stabilize, this is just even out. So that it helps us to reduce the working capital if the price will come down and all that. But at the same time, we more work on operating efficiency improvement. Then just on this commodity advantage.

Kapil Singh — Nomura — Analyst

Okay Sir. And for the industry, Do we should expect the benefit to start coming from second quarter?

G N Gauba — Chief Financial Officer

I mean that goes without saying. I think you know how the prices are what comparison, so the average prices will hold good for the industry.

Kapil Singh — Nomura — Analyst

Yeah. No. The question was, because some of the OEMs have also mentioned and for some of the other categories beyond the basic commodities like plastics, etc, they are still seeing inflation. So that was the reason for the question.

Anurag Gahlot — Chief Operating Officer

I think that is by the OEMs, the copper price of LME is available across and sometimes comparison are between peak the curve. But as I said the average prices are there for everybody to see and we also disclose as an offset.

Kapil Singh — Nomura — Analyst

Sure, sir. Thank you and wish you all the best.

Anurag Gahlot — Chief Operating Officer

Thanks, Kapil.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jinesh Gandhi from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Jinesh Gandhi — Motilal Oswal Financial Services — Analyst

Hi, sir. First question is on the RM cost side. So did 1Q see some lag effect of RM cost inflation in P&L or given that prices have marginally cooled off in 1Q as indicated in your presentation, there was not much impact of cost pass-through impact?

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Gauba?

G N Gauba — Chief Financial Officer

Yes, I mean you have seen the LME copper price in dollar terms, as well as in US dollars. So the impact is not very significant as we can see compared to the previous quarter. But Japanese yen has weakened up, so there could be some plus, minus on that. But as things get stabilized, this gets even out.

Jinesh Gandhi — Motilal Oswal Financial Services — Analyst

Okay. So in that context, how do you see this QoQ increase in add-on cost and percentage of sales, which is close to 110 basis points anything one-off there, are getting lumpy over here?

Anurag Gahlot — Chief Operating Officer

I think Jinesh, we are not selling the same product all the quarter. There are mix impact — marginal impact of the product mix also you have — again it’s very difficult, it’s very few basis point that the difference is there. And it would be just not viable to get into those details because we are not selling the same product all time.

Jinesh Gandhi — Motilal Oswal Financial Services — Analyst

Okay, got it. And secondly, from a tax perspective given that full year from our perspective. So obviously, are we using the new tax regime of 25% tax rate or we are still on the old regime?

Anurag Gahlot — Chief Operating Officer

This is a new company and we have been following the 25%.

Jinesh Gandhi — Motilal Oswal Financial Services — Analyst

Okay. Got it. And lastly, what could be the capex for FY ’23?

Anurag Gahlot — Chief Operating Officer

I mean last time, we had given a guidance that it is INR100 crore plus or minus INR25 crores, so would be INR125 crores. And as you can see, we have also said in our commentary that we have established a new plant in Chennai. So there is a capex for the new facility. But normally otherwise in a normal circumstances, the capex as you know for wiring harness business is largely on land and building, the normal capex is very small.

Jinesh Gandhi — Motilal Oswal Financial Services — Analyst

Got it, got it, thanks. I’ll come back in queue.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aman Agarwal from Carnelian Capital. Please go ahead.

Aman Agarwal — Carnelian Capital — Analyst

Good evening, sir. And thanks for the opportunity. So, my question was basically if I see our cost margins. They are far higher than some of our peers, they are around 500, 600 basis point higher compared to our peers. Like what other drivers we entered into higher margins, is it the economics of scale if get you to a large scale reason or some other reason?

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Pankaj would you like to take this? or Anurag would like to take this?

Pankaj —

This always the drive has been to continuously improve ourselves, as we are one very simple, drive in the whole growth initiated by Mr. Sehgal is to be to [Indecipherable] and that’s what we all aim for. So we really do not look at the peers. We have constantly strived to improve our performance all the time.

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Yeah. Our peers are very powerful people. So we just follow ourselves, very simply.

Aman Agarwal — Carnelian Capital — Analyst

Understood Sir. Yeah. And sir, like going forward, when it is very early to say, but on the EV side, do we expect the margins to be more or less similar to our low voltage kind of business or would it be different from what we basically make our low voltage business?

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

I’ll give it to Pankaj, but I think you must understand every car is different. So it depends upon what car is coming, what is it that people are buying. So our products are more related to that, Pankaj can you shed some light on this?

Pankaj —

Basically all the profitability of a particular project or a particular product, it’s very difficult for us to answer in general, because there is no shade specific to it, it’s over a period of time as the teams get opportunities and they are trying more and more improvement opportunities, we try to keep working very hard to create various possibilities. So that’s how we have built ourselves over the period of time and that’s what we’re doing in every business, be it high voltage or low voltage business. And the company focuses on capital employee more than anything else.

Aman Agarwal — Carnelian Capital — Analyst

Any internal metric contract with the current capital employees which we usually target in terms of new projects when we go for new project?

Pankaj —

I mean [Indecipherable]. Sorry.

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Yeah, go ahead, Pankaj, go ahead.

Pankaj —

I think that it’s not only at the start of the project as to when we get awarded, but it’s to work hard to strive on an overall basis. So it’s not something which is specific to a particular product.

Aman Agarwal — Carnelian Capital — Analyst

Okay, understood Sir. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Karan Kulkarni from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.

Karan Kulkarni — Ambit Capital — Analyst

Yeah, hi, sir, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, first, I just had one housekeeping question. So last time in the presentation you provided a breakup of revenues by segments. So would it be possible for you to provide that breakup?

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Gauba?

G N Gauba — Chief Financial Officer

I mean, it will be very difficult.

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

I think you’re confusing with [Indecipherable].

G N Gauba — Chief Financial Officer

Last time, we had given a breakdown plus car commercial vehicle and two-wheeler.

Karan Kulkarni — Ambit Capital — Analyst

Yeah, exactly Sir.

G N Gauba — Chief Financial Officer

First coming from the analysts, but I think these are the numbers, which are to be seen on a yearly basis, on a quarter-to-quarter they are not very significant and sometimes you have block holiday. So they don’t indicate any trend. So it is better to look that on a full-year basis rather than on a quarter-on-quarter basis.

Karan Kulkarni — Ambit Capital — Analyst

Okay, understood. Sir and then second question was more on the technical side of things. So I just wanted to understand, there are a few wiring harness players in India, which manufacture this two-wheeler wiring harness. So how different is the wiring harness for two-wheeler versus your passenger vehicles? So can a two-wheeler wiring harness manufacturer make passenger vehicle wiring harnesses in the future, how easy or difficult would it be to make that switch?

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Are you asking us to guess without doing whom we are referring to?

Karan Kulkarni — Ambit Capital — Analyst

Yes. In general, I mean if they say a player like maybe [Speech Overlap]

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

It’s not a [Indecipherable], so very difficult thing. And probably to whom we are referring to, but you can see there is lot of bikes that catch fire and number two-wheelers and all that. So it’s not something so simple as what people think it takes. Many things such as we’ve taken care of. But it’s a very hypothetical question, I can’t answer but, anybody from our side, would like to attempt? Pankaj, Gauba, Anurag.

Anurag Gahlot — Chief Operating Officer

I think you very well said that there is a lot of very high specs which are associated with the passenger car industry and customers are very careful and they select the suppliers very carefully.

Karan Kulkarni — Ambit Capital — Analyst

Okay. Sir, and then, just wanted to check what percentage of our purchases are say denominated in yen, so imports in yen. So if say, the yen falls or 10% against the INR. So what can be the benefit that we can expect?

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

So we make over 20,000 different types of harnesses, so it’s a very difficult question to answer. We need a trade computer to help us.

Karan Kulkarni — Ambit Capital — Analyst

Okay. Okay, sir. So yeah, those are all the questions from my end. Thanks. I’ll fall back in the queue.

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

No idea.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Saurabh from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.

Saurabh — Ambit Capital — Analyst

Hello, good evening, sir. I just wanted to understand from the business side. So just the difference between say a high voltage harness and a low voltage harness. So basically, just wanted to understand which part of the business requires the high voltage harness and which can do with the low voltage harness as well? And over that if you can provide what is the — outcome of the current capacity, what percentage of the capacity currently produces the high voltage harness?

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Look, high voltage harness is basically for electric vehicles, low voltages are normal vehicles that you’re buying today. You asked me that more careful, but Pankaj can you throw some light for him?

Pankaj —

So basically even an electric car, the internal working all the electrical functions of the vehicle like lamps and functions, everything is still working on the low voltage side. So the charging and then the inverter and motor which is driving the vehicle requires the high voltage stuff. And in terms of our capacity utilization, as you know that majorly is still the businesses in India are running on ICE engines.

Saurabh — Ambit Capital — Analyst

Understood Sir. Basically, high voltage is required only for EVs and not for ICE vehicles, which are going towards premiumization. So the premiumization trend that probably can be catered with the low voltage harnesses as well, am I right?

Anurag Gahlot — Chief Operating Officer

Absolutely, sir.

Saurabh — Ambit Capital — Analyst

Got it, got it. Yeah, that’s it from my side. And thank you, sir.

Anurag Gahlot — Chief Operating Officer

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kirupa Shankar from Choice Equity. Please go ahead.

Kirupa Shankar — Choice Equity — Analyst

Yeah. Hello, can you hear me?

Operator

Mr. Shankar, audio is not clearly audible.

Kirupa Shankar — Choice Equity — Analyst

Yeah. Now, is it is clear?

Operator

Yes.

Kirupa Shankar — Choice Equity — Analyst

So just wanted to know, do we have any order book for HV or from which client in high voltage?

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Sorry?

Kirupa Shankar — Choice Equity — Analyst

Do you have any order book for high voltage wiring?

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Yes, we have set up the plant, we do have the orders.

Kirupa Shankar — Choice Equity — Analyst

You may know, the quantum of the order value or like on for which clients or which segment?

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Do we give that Pankaj, Gauba?

G N Gauba — Chief Financial Officer

We normally, we don’t disclose because we have to check with the customers, we don’t disclose their names based on confidentiality. But in terms of segments, as we mentioned that all three segments, two-wheelers, passenger cars, as well as commercial vehicles are covered. [Speech Overlap]

Kirupa Shankar — Choice Equity — Analyst

[Speech Overlap] value would be the?

G N Gauba — Chief Financial Officer

So we are not giving any specific order values as such. So this has not been disclosed yet by the company.

Kirupa Shankar — Choice Equity — Analyst

Okay. And just wanted to understand for the HV integration in electric vehicle as the integration of the electric vehicle is more like with motor and BMS and everything is like very close together. Just want to understand, does that impact the length of the HV is going to be integrated in electric vehicle, as compared to the ICE engine? So how will be the — how much of the delta EV, you know supply high voltage vehicles into electric vehicle as number two or lower digital wire in ICE cycle?

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Pankaj. Attempt it yaar.

Pankaj —

If I have understood your question right, you are asking a question which says that if it’s electric vehicle will the amount of wires required will reduce?

Kirupa Shankar — Choice Equity — Analyst

Yes.

Pankaj —

No there is no generic rule like that in an electric vehicle, most of the time the customers are trying to provide actually even more features. And as I mentioned that the low voltage side of the vehicle remains the low voltage side and there actually the features are increasing as well. So it depends on which level of car is electric or whether it is an ICE engine. So we have not yet seen it in our market here. But yes, you would have also read that many car makers in the world depending their — depending upon their own constraints, they may want to devise certain things are trying to innovate where they have assembly issues or other kinds of issues to find some other ways in which they can assemble their cars faster.

And even though it may not be economical to do it, but may try to find ways and means to do something in a different way. So there are various studies and projects studies, which are available [Indecipherable]

Kirupa Shankar — Choice Equity — Analyst

Okay. Thank you, sir. That’s it from my side.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Vinod Malviya from Union Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.

Vinod Malviya — Union Mutual Fund — Analyst

Yeah. Thank you for taking my question. So my question was on employee costs, sequentially, we have seen almost 6.5% increase in employee cost. So going forward, what should one really look at like in terms of the quarterly run rate for your employee cost. And is it possible for you to quantify how much of the employee cost of exits in nature [Indecipherable] number [Indecipherable].

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Gauba?

G N Gauba — Chief Financial Officer

Sir, as we have said in the presentation in the last quarter, we are establishing and doing the trial runs for the new launches, which are to come both in Bangaluru as well as in Chennai. So the manpower needs to be gained. So there are people who have been employed. And in the last quarter, there is also inventory built up because of, there is a block holidays and less production than anticipated, you must have also seen OEMs commentary wherein they lost some of the volumes because of last minute changes.

So manpower cost is higher because of the new facilities which are being set up.

Vinod Malviya — Union Mutual Fund — Analyst

Okay. Okay. Then let me change the question [Indecipherable] in this particular quarter, we have seen employee cost is coming at around 68.5%. On a very steady state, what is this number should really settle down at, could it be at 14.5%, 15% kind of number as a percentage of sales?

G N Gauba — Chief Financial Officer

Okay. See I think it will be very difficult to guide on each of the quarterly basis on this. As we have always focused on improving the operating performance and return on capital employees, so you will see that direction being continued here. But to pinpoint a particular manpower cost in the quarter all those things, there could be one-off events, which are preparing for future growth. Our specific guidance on this should be avoided.

Vinod Malviya — Union Mutual Fund — Analyst

Sorry. So that’s the reason I always emphasizing on this is because of all the way from Q3 of FY ’22 and even Q4 of FY ’23 [Phonetic] and further in Q1 of FY ’22 [Phonetic], we have seen margins at the EBITDA level coming down. Employee cost is being one of the biggest factors in your overall cost structure. So that’s why I just focusing more and employee cost, because in the Q3 of FY ’23 with 14.3% EBITDA margin which bring down to [Indecipherable] now it has come down to 12.1%. I understand on the gross margin has also contracted, but apart from that employee cost other major factors which has also led to this [Indecipherable] contracture.

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

I think you are aware that we are going through COVID restrictions and problems, right and semiconductor and many things. And yes, as Gauba said the number of production that’s coming from the customer is changing and it’s very difficult to correlate with all these particular variables. But Gauba, would you want to add something to help this gentleman?

G N Gauba — Chief Financial Officer

I think in a steady phase, you will always find these cost getting normalized, but these are different circumstances. And surely, when the new launches are there, it takes time for people to achieve those efficiency level and ramp up. And in a particular quarter when there are no sales, because we have to not just establish the facility but train the manpower at least three, four months in advance. So that when the launches is there, we are doing the inventory build up, they can go and produce and ramp up to the OEMs requirement.

So we’ll have to wait for some time, as you know, there are multiple of new launches, which have been happening in the recent past.

Vinod Malviya — Union Mutual Fund — Analyst

Got it, thanks. All the best. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Karan Kulkarni from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.

Karan Kulkarni — Ambit Capital — Analyst

Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity again. Just wanted to check what was the lease payment that was made during the quarter?

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Sorry, I didn’t get that.

Karan Kulkarni — Ambit Capital — Analyst

The least payment which Motherson Sumi Wiring makes to SAMIL the quantum during this quarter?

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Gauba?

G N Gauba — Chief Financial Officer

It would be difficult for me to give that number of hand. But surely it will be shared with shareholders’ approval and consistent with the agreement which is there and which was already shared with all the shareholders.

Karan Kulkarni — Ambit Capital — Analyst

Okay, sir. Fine. And the second question, we already have a JV with [Indecipherable] for making wiring harnesses for Hyundai. So would it be fair to say that Motherson Sumi Wiring will find it difficult to supply to?

G N Gauba — Chief Financial Officer

Listen. That’s not a part of this company, so we can’t comment on that. And then SAMIL this thing will be done, we can answer your question there, but I would request you to focus on this. [Speech Overlap]

Karan Kulkarni — Ambit Capital — Analyst

[Speech Overlap] My question was would it be difficult for MSSL to enter into Hyundai and Kia that was the question?

G N Gauba — Chief Financial Officer

Why would you complete the question, does it make sense to you?

Karan Kulkarni — Ambit Capital — Analyst

Yes. So that’s what I was saying. So it will not be I mean possible for the company to enter into Hyundai, Kia right, so that was just a clarification.

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

So there is so much of fish in the ocean, we have to go and fight it out. I mean, is that your sense of how we should be operating the company?

Karan Kulkarni — Ambit Capital — Analyst

Sorry, I didn’t get that, sir. But I think my question was answered. So I’ll fall back in the queue.

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Okay. That’s good enough — that’s good enough.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions from the participant, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vivek Chaand Seghal for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Thank you. I think your last question was rather weak. I didn’t understand why this gentleman has not understood, why the bifurcation was done. And we did have 99.4% approval of the shareholders, the minority, majority. So for me, the situation will break here, [Indecipherable] the only business which is only 4% in India and this gentleman failed to understand why that was done there. There was a purpose by which we did bifurcation and we did that.

Anyway, since he has understood why we have done it, I think the problem stands resolved. The key thing for this thing was that April and May were rather weak-ish months for the carmakers. June was better, so the results were…

Operator

Participants are requested to please stay connected while we reconnect Mr. Sehgal. Participants we have the line from Mr. Seghal connected. Over to you, sir.

Vivek Chaand Sehgal — Chairman

Thank you. Sorry. So I was just summing up and telling that I think the coming quarters seem to be that much more exciting. And I think by September, October, you will start to see the semiconductor issues mainly getting resolved. So wish you all the best, stay safe, and stay healthy. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Motherson Sumi Wiring India Limited, that concludes this conference. We thank you all for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.