Mold-Tek Packaging Limited (NSE: MOLDTKPAC) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 19, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Lakshmana Rao — Chairman and Managing Director
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Jaiveer Shekhawat — Analyst
Shirish Pardeshi — Analyst
Richa — Analyst
Madhur Rathi — Analyst
Mehul Panjwani — Analyst
Yash Bajaj — Analyst
Jaydeep Taparia — Analyst
Manish Mahawar — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Moltech Packaging Limited Q4FY25 earnings conference call hosted by MK Global Financial Services Limited as a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Start then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference has been recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Bhavik Shankalesha from MK Global Financial Services Ltd. Thank you and over to you sir.
Unidentified Participant
Good morning everyone. I would like to welcome Mr. Lakshman Rao, chairman and Managing Director and thank him for his opportunity. I shall now hand over the call to him for opening remarks. Over to you sir.
Lakshmana Rao — Chairman and Managing Director
Good afternoon everybody. Thank you very much Vaish and for. Coordinating this call today. Thanks all participants for participating in the. Q4 and annual results of. I am glad to inform you that the company has closed reasonably well for. The full year with a growth of around 11.8% in sales. In terms of volume it is 7.3 and the EBITDA has gone up by 7% and due to high provision of depreciation and financial cost the pat has come down marginally by about 9%. Net profit down by 9%.
However, the future looks very bright because. One of the greatest news for the quarter is our Pharma division which has started just a year ago, barely a year ago has crossed break even in the Q4 with a short up of turnover from meagre two and a half crores in Q3 to 6.7 crores in Q4 resulting in company making profits for the first time in the former division two. So this will augur well for the. Coming years as the traction that is created in the Q4 will continue to spread in the full financial year of current year.
And apart from additional new products being added in the pharma sector, another positive. Development is de growth of paint industry. Which was 6.7% drop last year has become 6.8% growth in this current financial year auguring well for the company’s future growth. So this is all the headlines. We can have more information exchanged through question and answers. Can I now give back this line to operator to organize the question and answers?
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue you may press Star and two Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Jayavir Shekhawat from Ambit Capital. Please proceed.
Jaiveer Shekhawat
Sure. Thanks for taking my question. And Mr. Rao, congratulations on a good quarter. So my first question is on your pharma division. We have seen a good pickup during the fourth quarter. So one, if you could explain in terms of the approvals that you have received, where are we in that cycle and also in terms of your revised revenue targets for possibly the next next year, in the year beyond that for the pharma division. That will be my first question.
Lakshmana Rao
Yeah. Regarding the pharma. Yes. What all we discussed a couple of quarters ago that several companies have visited. And passed our company audits with flying colors and some of them, I would say have started picking up volumes in this quarter, that is Q4 resulting in a sudden spurt in numbers to about 2 and a half crores to 2.3 crores per month, which enabled us to reach a number of 6.7 crores in the Q4 compared to 2.5 or 2.6 last quarter. And that will continue to improve if not at the same pace. Definitely this will become the base now. And going forward we are looking at a number beyond 30 crores for the full year. It can be better based upon some of the new products which we are launching for the pharma industry in India. In fact, there is again a minor expansion taken up in the facilities apart from six, seven missions we started the business with. We are adding five more missions in injection molding category which are a couple of them have already arrived and three more missions are coming in June and the corresponding molds for the same are getting ready. Hopefully by end of May or middle of June they will also be here for production.
So by end of June we will. Be having some more new products that will be bringing in revenues and we are confident that the former division from 11 crores in the current financial year should be seeing 2 and a half to 3 times growth in the next financial year. In terms of top line, that is a current update and to we see much more growth coming up in couple of years down the line because this is only the beginning and out of more than 1820, I don’t know, I lost count 20 companies which have given us the audit clearance, hardly four or five of them started commercial buying.
So we expect expect some more players to start buying commercially in the coming quarters which may add up numbers more Rapidly So as we meet over the quarter on quarter, definitely I will be able to update and revive the projections. But for now we will be certainly crossing 30 plus crores turnover in the current financial year from pharma and probably 50 plus in the 26, 27 year that we can review as we go forward.
Jaiveer Shekhawat
Sure. So that’s very helpful. I just wanted to touch on the capacity utilization. You mentioned in your slides that you’ve already achieved over 50% capacity utilization. So given that you are now seeing some traction, I mean are you aggressively investing in expanding these capacities or are you still in that wait and watch mode before you expand very aggressively on. The pharma front,
Lakshmana Rao
I would say now the gears have changed a little bit. We are no more very cautious about. The investment, we are now more confident and the results are very encouraging. The way our ability to develop new molds and new products, how it is being attracted in the pharma industry is very heartening. I see a very big gap especially in new product development in this country. Country for packaging and pharma packaging and Moltech with its tool room and product development abilities can definitely play a major role in that. So currently the expansion is adding few more machines in the existing land and building. But to be cautious, we have applied for further land just next to the existing land in Sultanpur and preliminary approval has been received from Telangana government for about two and a half acres of land which is really adjacent to the current facility in Sultanpur, Hyderabad.
So this will be in future uses. For pharma expansion. Because. Yeah, can you hear me please?
Jaiveer Shekhawat
Yes, yes, please go ahead.
Lakshmana Rao
So we are now aggressively adding that. Land also within a for future expansion that is required in the pharma segment.
Jaiveer Shekhawat
And so what kind of capacity increase are you doing there and what would be in terms of tonnage capacity?
Lakshmana Rao
Yeah, around 1500 tons per annum. Current capacity that will be at least. 3,000 tons during the next few months. Probably by end of December we’ll have mounts and machines that can produce up to 250 tonnes per month. So during this year from 1500 probably. We will go to 3000 tons capacity in terms of manufacturing capacity. By end of March 26 the land. And building which is now currently available. At Sultanpur will be more than enough to capture to this requirement. But further enhancement beyond 3,000 tons if. That will certainly require in the next financial year 26, 27 would take up construction in that new plant, new land we acquired. So this current plant which we currently. Have on hand and what we can add in Sultanpur land can cater to up to 3000 tons per annum or you can say closely 100 crores tonight.
Jaiveer Shekhawat
Sure. So very well understood. On the pain side I mean the quarter growth looks very tepid. It’s only around 2 percentage. So if you could explain what are been happening with both Grassim and Asian paints and other clients. And you’ve also been talking about IML adoption increasing plus recycled polymer also increasing. So what kind of a growth expectation do you have from the paint segment in the next year?
Lakshmana Rao
Yeah I agree this quarter the paint segment growth is hardly 2% but if you notice last year it was negative. So that way it is little better in. In terms of. Comparatively there is a growth of around 13% over the 12 months period for the overall paint industry in this current year compared to -5%. Is this Q3 I think. Sorry, I am talking wrongly. Minus. Year to year there is a growth of 13% and in value terms it is 13%. In terms of quantity it is 6.88%. But for the quarter in question it. Is only 2.02% 0.7%. So we are seeing this to change.
And it will get better. Our trend in April or even May is on the positive side the growth will slowly come to towards double digit is our hope. From 6.79% hopefully we will touch about 10% growth in the next financial year. Given the attraction, two reasons. One is Aditya Birla group has asked us to enhance our capacities which we did by January and those capacities have started functioning from March, April onwards and their numbers are improving. Now this is a brownfield expansion so the delta for investment is marginal but the numbers can start growing little more rapidly.
So that is one positive thing for abg. And coming on Asian paint side they are shifting more and more brands into IML and today we have set up all earlier it used to be only. Hyderabad and Satara has the capabilities of giving IML products. Now we have Vizag and Mysore also robust and been installed. So now all four plants started manufacturing IML products for Asian paints which was not the case a year ago. So we hope that will stabilize or. Rather improve a bit in our share from Asian paints. So with these two positive developments we are hoping to see a double digit. Growth in paint segment in the coming financial year.
Jaiveer Shekhawat
Sure sir. On your capex side I mean earlier you had guided that you’ll do 70, 80 crores but when I see the number for FY25 that has reached to almost 140 odd crores which is the trend that you’ve done over the last two years as well. So I mean which segments have you ended up investing A lot more? Is it largely coming from the paint side or are you investing across other businesses and buy?
Lakshmana Rao
No, it’s equal actually in pharma and printing. Especially in printing. We invested more than 25 lakhs 25 crores in the current financial year. Previous financial year wherein we have added two flexo machines, one offset machine, several die cutting machines and one roto gravure machine that has more than increased the printing capacity by more than 70%. That’s one of the reasons why we clocked a very healthy 25% increase in. The food and FMCG sales in the Q4 because our ability to manufacture IML has enhanced from February and that is further enhanced in May. So this is was the reason last. Year, as I told in my previous quarterly interaction, that printing rejection of a printing machine and further delay in printing machine acquisition has caused drop in food and FMC because we couldn’t make IML labels in time. So whereas in this year we are. Well equipped for that. And the proof of the pudding is. Growth of 25% in food and FMCG in Q4 that is a good positive turnaround because going in Q1 which is ice cream and dairy products season, we are more than ready to capture the increasing demand which we let go last year.
Jaiveer Shekhawat
So my last question is on your realization given that I mean crude oil prices have also corrected sharply. I mean are you already seeing adverse impact of that on your revenues? Possibly in the starting quarter on first quarter given we’ve already seen April.
Lakshmana Rao
In fact on the contrary, we are more positive about improving the EBITDA per. Kg which we have crossed 40 after long several quarters. Last 7, 8 quarters we were below 40 rupees EBITDA per kg. And in Q4 thanks to increase in food and FMCG sales and pharma sales, the number has shot up to 40 rupees 15 paisa which indicates that a better margin scenario is going to emerge in Q1 because in Q1 we will be having much better capacity utilization and higher sales of food and FMCG which will be always there in the Q1 due to summer consumption of ice creams and dairy will reach peak. And this time we are ready with our capacities and we saw very good improvement in April and same trend continues, we might have a positive Q1 growth.
Jaiveer Shekhawat
Sure sir, thank you so much and sir, wish you all the best. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shirish Pardeshi from Motilal Oswal. Please proceed.
Shirish Pardeshi
Hello. Good afternoon Mr. Rao. Thanks for the opportunity. I have few questions. I think first is hearty congratulations for food and fmcg. Just wanted to understand the growth what you have delivered in FY25. What are the top two, three things you have done right and can similar growth can come in FY26?
Lakshmana Rao
Yes, one major thing we did is. Our Pharma has got into break even right in the fourth quarter which was not really expected. I was confident but I was a little skeptical till we did it. And in the Q4 our team did a fantastic job achieving 6.6 crores turnover in the quarter as against 2.5 in the Q3 or 2.4 in Q3, something like that. So almost three times turnover has been. Achieved in Q4 and that will be. Sitting as a base for the coming quarters. So we are now looking at anywhere between 30, 35 crores kind of top line for Pharma in this next financial year with a very healthy EBITDA margin which will take up the overall company’s EBITDA margin. And second hardening thing is capacity utilization. Started improving from March onwards especially in the new expansions we created at ABG for JR and Paripat which started at least from March onwards.
I wouldn’t say say in entire Q4 but from March onwards we see good traction in ABGC numbers which will continue during the current next financial year. So we are more optimistic about 25. 26 because of these two factors, pharma and ABG growth. And as I said with the enhanced printing abilities and printing volumes we are in a position to capture tin wall. Growth into double digits again which slipped last year below 10%. I think it is somewhere around 5, 6% last year it is now reached 11.76% overall thanks to a big jump of 26% in the Q4. So going forward food and FMCG also will be growing. Another reason of my optimism is our Panipat food and FMCG production is starting.
In June in a small way but that will start adding up by end of next financial year into a reasonable number. And our square packs also, we have. Already started manufacturing at Gwanipat last three months we have couple of clients nearby but now the client number has gone up to eight to 10 clients. So square packs, a full set of. Product range is being created at Pnipat. So starting from June already couple of packs are being made there other two packs that is 17 and 10 liter also will be starting from June onwards. So square packs, thin wall, abg, Pharma. These all four are on a good run. So we are more confident about next financial year as we see today.
Shirish Pardeshi
So one follow up in food and fmcg. How many new customers we have added over last two, three quarters and what is their contribution?
Lakshmana Rao
Several clients we add every year in. The food and fmcg. Notable is Marico recently and Mankind for their protein nutritional powder which is a sizeable number. These two are major but there are. Several other small and medium clients. In fact as I said last year we let go lot of clients because we couldn’t service them due to lack. Of printing facilities and in time supplies which now we are overcome with the expanded printing capacity and able to retain more and more clients than what we let go last year.
Shirish Pardeshi
Okay, in terms of paints, Asian Paint was giving us a good strong view saying that they are now looking at regional pack with IMLAB printing in the regional language. So I’m sure you would have been part of that journey. What kind of opportunity you see over next two, three years?
Lakshmana Rao
I certainly am positive about growth with. Asian paints because last two years we degrown in Asian paints overall numbers. But now with the trend of major. Brands being shifted into IML and they. Have given us a clear advice to. Have IML facility at all four plants. In fact including Hyderabad, there are five plants. With that initiative I am confident our numbers can become positive rather than dropping. It can even grow in the next financial year is our hope if that happens. That’s why I’m confident of a 10% growth in paint segment in the next financial year.
Shirish Pardeshi
Okay, one follow up on FY26 overall paint what would be Asian paint and ABG volume contribution?
Lakshmana Rao
I can’t share such details of individual. Clients
Shirish Pardeshi
but total you can say that. Top two clients,
Lakshmana Rao
top two clients are definitely Asian Pains will continue to be our number one client. Number two client is HUL in terms of tonnage grass incomes. Number two, Gulf Castrol are close. Number 3s Indusa Levers is number four. Okay, so they continue to be in that same order I guess.
Shirish Pardeshi
Okay, just last question on slide 14. You you have given a various segmental number in terms of volume. Can you just break down each segment? What is the EBITDA we have achieved for full year?
Lakshmana Rao
FY25 for segment wise EBITDA. You’re asking?
Shirish Pardeshi
Yes.
Lakshmana Rao
No, I don’t think we have the data. We can’t share as of now.
Shirish Pardeshi
Okay, I’ll take it from ADI separately.
Lakshmana Rao
Yeah. Probably yeah, it will be okay. In the paints it will be close to 3032 rupees. In thin wall it will be close to 70 rupees. Pharma it will be close to 90 to 100 rupees. But exactly pinpointed segment analysis probably you can get later.
Shirish Pardeshi
No, I was more interested sir, this quarter you have delivered more than 40 and which was our target. So I just was more curious which segment has driven this?
Lakshmana Rao
Definitely Fuden, FMCG and pharma. Because if you notice food and FMCG has clogged a 25% growth which is one of our high contributors. Pharma which was zero last year has contributed at least 2% of the sale. I would say it is more than 2%. It is around in revenue terms it is 3.3% whereas weight basis only 1.8 times. That means you can understand the realization is much better. In pharma though it is a small number, six and half crores. Its contribution to the bottom line or EBITDA would be reasonably good. But going forward that will become the norm.
Shirish Pardeshi
Okay, okay. All the best and thank you.
Lakshmana Rao
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Richa from Equity Master. Please proceed.
Richa
Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations for stellar performance in pharma and fmct. So my question is related to, you know, ebitda margin per kg and the kind of trajectory that they could given, you know, the volume growth guidance that you have given for different segments. So I believe, I mean what is your degree of confidence that we’ll be able to reach 42 per kind of per kg kind of margin sighting that you are close to a few years ago by FY27. Do you think that would be possible with the mix that we are moving towards?
Lakshmana Rao
Yes, we are aiming towards 42 if not immediately, definitely in the next one or two years it can easily cross. 42 in my opinion because pharma brings in at a much higher EBITDA margin close to 100 rupees or more. Food continue to give us 72, 80. But of course the paint and paints. Or square packs they continue to be in the region of 30, 35. So overall as the numbers in pharma and food and FMCs improves, this number can move towards 42, 43 in the next coming quarters. So that is internally our target too and I don’t see it very far away.
Richa
Okay. And just talking About FinTech and SMCG, I think you suffered some kind of muted growth because of the capacity constraint and we witnessed 25% growth, but I’m assuming that could also be on the lower base. So going forward, what would be the normalized growth rate include net and CG considering increased competition plus you know the kind of capacity optimization that you have done.
Lakshmana Rao
Yes. In terms of printing we have now gone up considerably. We see a growth region of at. Least 15% to 20% in the next financial year too because earlier we lost. Several clients or didn’t entertain smaller clients. Mainly because of our lack of printing capacity. April saw 20% growth, but how May. And June will or next part of the year goes is still not clear. But we are anticipating or targeting a. Growth of 15 to 20% in the food and FMCG segment as well.
Richa
Okay, and so my last question is capacity, could you maybe I missed the CapEx number that you are aspiring for in FY26 and I believe most of it will be for farmer capacity. Right?
Lakshmana Rao
It will be partly for Pharma for sure because that is where we are. Investing again on some land and probably completing the buildings at Sultanpur area. As of in the existing land there. Will be certainly 20, 25 crores investment. Will happen in Pharma in the current financial year. And already we have committed 20 crores. Of investment in moulds and other machinery which are into. So I see. This year Capex in the region of 70 to 80 crores. Because Mahad plant is yet to go on stream. It is being serviced from Satara plant. But that plant construction is not a big plant but it would require at. Least around 1415 crores of investment there and pharma requiring around 25 crores. We are further adding little bit more in printing. Not very big investment to the tune of around 7 to 8 crores. So all put together our budget for the next financial year capex is 75 to 80. But for any sudden jump in pharma requirements we have already factored a 10 crore land which we are acquiring next. To 10 crore worth of land next to our Sultanpur unit in Hyderabad purely for future pharma growth. So having said that, the buildings are not yet planned in that location because. There is enough space and land available in the existing Sultanpur. So that will get filled in this year for sure. Probably the new land what we acquired now are about to acquire now would be future. Let’s say from 2627 onwards we’ll be investing in that facility. So capex we wish to keep between. 70 to 80 crores for the next FY.
Richa
Okay. And so you mentioned around 3000 ton per annum by the end of FY26 for pharma. May I know the revenue potential? I think you guided for 50 crore kind of revenue. But what is the potential of 3,000 ton per annum kind of capacity from pharma?
Lakshmana Rao
See today pharma selling price can be. Somewhere around 300 to 350 rupees per kilogram. So given that even you take conservatively. 300 rupees we are aiming at let’s. Say 90 to 100 crores overall. Best capacity. Ideal. Ideal capacity by this FY that will be ready for filling up probably in 26, 27.
Richa
All right. Thank you so much and all the best.
Lakshmana Rao
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Before I take the next questions I would like to remind participant that you may press Star in one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Madhurathi from Counter Cyclical Investments. Please proceed.
Madhur Rathi
Thank you for the opportunity. Sir. I wanted to understand regarding our pharma business. So are customers currently unhappy with the current suppliers or is it because of the demand we can see such a sharp jump over the next two to three years?
Lakshmana Rao
No, I can’t say that. Whether the clients are unhappy with our competitors, I don’t think so. That would be a major reason because they have been in business for quite some time. Companies like gary shimer and 3G are in this space for more than 10 years now. What I am saying is our ability to quickly develop new products, new features. For example, I will just give you one example. Somebody want to develop a two bottle. Holder for a application. While Sree G or Gary Shaimer take four to five months to develop such a new product including a new concept which is not breaking the patent rules would take them four, five months to come up. And whereas Malte could do it in one and half to two months. So that such kind of opportunity I. Am seeing are plenty coming up in pharma space also. I was under the impression all the time that food and FMCG is the only area where dynamic packaging needs will arise. But I also to my present surprise found pharma also requiring such agility in. Developing faster moulds and samples.
For example, I will give one more example. There are several companies which have some standards. Let us say 200 gram. 200 milliliters bottle means it should be let us say 15 gram weight or 18 gram weight. But some particular need of a client would come due to whatever the effervescence of the tablet or more stringent rules of longevity of the product. They may ask for a 22 gram bottle instead of 18 gram they want a 22 gram bottle. Most of our competitors might take external help to develop such a small change. And might take couple of months to submit such samples. Whereas with our tool room in house tool room we do that kind of changes within couple of weeks and the client want it for stability test and. Get his commercials done based on the stability test approval. So for him saving couple of months is a big deal. So such agility is what our tool. Room can bring to pharma. And that I feel is a big gap we are going to fill in.
Madhur Rathi
How are the demand supply dynamics in the pharma that in the three products that we are catering to currently.
Lakshmana Rao
Yeah, demand supply there is adequate capacities everywhere and the growth is also positive. But for this disruption of American tariff. Confusion there is some disruption here and there but things are all fine. And we are looking at capturing a market of existing market, not looking at the growth because our numbers are hardly. Anything like say if you talk about. 30, 35 crores, it is hardly not even 1% of entire pharma packaging requirement in the country. So whether that 3,000, 4,000 crore market grows up by 2% or 10% doesn’t matter much because we are looking at. Replacing the existing competitors or gaining market share through our innovations and faster development. So I am not much concerned as of today about the overall pharma packaging growth because we are looking at, you. Know, capturing current market opportunity.
Madhur Rathi
Got it. And so if I look at our paint segment, sir, if I compare. Sir, there was a conference where the BoJo CEO said that the paint volume have grown from by 13 or 14% over the last five years. That is from 20, I think 18 or 19 to 2023, 2024. But sir, if I look at our paint volumes, they have grown by 9, 9 to 10% towards FY19 to FY24. So that means that we have lost either customer market share or competitors are gaining our market the incremental volume that we should get competitors are getting.
Any thoughts on that?
Lakshmana Rao
Yeah, as I told a couple of quarters ago, we are consciously letting go. Some of the low value add opportunities in pale segment. We are not running after low value add pale companies and letting go people who don’t see value in IML or in terms of our quality. There are several clients who are settled with screen printing who are settled more than enough with what you call heat transfer labels. So such companies with low value add. We are letting go.
That is one of the reasons why. There is a stunted Growth in pale. Segment, whereas in the lube segment, you know, lube as it is is not a rapidly growing segment in terms of volumes they are more or less stagnated. But in spite of that for the current year it is a minus 2%. It so happens it will vary between. Plus or minus 5% every year. So loop is not a great contributor Anyway. Coming to paints. Yes. Now with the Asian paints moving into. Iml, at least for the top brands and we created facilities at all locations. We are now all ready to capture. Better numbers from Asian paints is our hope. And ABG certainly has given us an opportunity and whatever growth they clock in. It will reflect in our numbers. So overall this year I can say pales will grow, paint pails will grow. At least by in double digit.
Madhur Rathi
Sir, is it fair to assume that in IML segment that we cater to Asian paints, we would be the largest vendor or supplier?
Lakshmana Rao
Yes, as of today I guess so. I don’t have clear information about their. Competitors abilities and investment, I mean infrastructure. But today the indications are those majority. Of those volumes we are gathering.
Madhur Rathi
Got it. So there’s a final question from my sir, our capacities are fungible, so can we like. So in suppose the loop segment is not growing a lot. So can we repurpose our capacity so that they can cater to pharma or any other segments? So basically pharma where the compliance would be an issue. So can we repurpose our facilities in the segment that are not growing that much?
Lakshmana Rao
I will answer you properly. The fails machinery are fungible for square packs and loop packs. So between panels, loop packs and Q packs, that is square packs we have complete fungibility. They are as good as, you know, meant for that particular application coming to pharma. The food and FMCG machines are fungible with pharma. The smaller medium range machines with robotics are more suitable to pharma rather than a 500 ton machine meant for a. 20 liter pail for a paint container. So of course it can be but with a inefficiency. So the fungibility factor between pails, let it be lube or paint or square pack is complete 100%. Similarly the fungibility between food and FMCG machinery and pharma is 100% fungibility. But using a pharma small mount and a big mission of pale doesn’t suit properly. It’s not economical.
Madhur Rathi
Got it. So there’s a final question sir, what would be the volume growth that we can expect for FY26 and what would be the data per kg estimate can we expect it to move by towards 42 rupees in FY26?
Lakshmana Rao
See, I don’t want to make a guess now. Definitely I will answer this question next. Quarter when we meet after the Q1 result. Our internal target is that we already said it. We wish to see volume growth this time with the EBITDA also coming between 41 and 42. But I would like to save my comments till at least June July. Once we see the Q1 numbers I’ll be able to make a better prediction.
Madhur Rathi
So thank you so much and all the best.
Lakshmana Rao
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of mehul Panjwani from 40 cents. Please proceed.
Mehul Panjwani
Thank you so much for the opportunity. Sir. Sir, who are our competitors for the pharma segment?
Lakshmana Rao
Sri Gary Shimer, Leila Prabhudas. What is it? Gopal Das 3 and berry caps Only in the cap segment. But in mainly bottle segment and other product segment these are the major Parek plastic segment. Sriji Pravesha and Gary Shimmer are the major players.
Mehul Panjwani
So since these guys a competition is already established in Pharma and we are a new entrant. How do we. What would be our unique selling point?
Lakshmana Rao
I just explained to you the speed at which we develop new products, make minor variations in the existing products due to our in house Tool room is one major positive. Second is our product mix. We have canisters, we have EV tubes, we have bottles and caps, child resistant caps and we are coming out with new variety of special purpose caps. That makes us one place supplier for. You know, a wider range of products. Like I don’t think this kind of range is there with everybody. Couple of our major competitors may be having even swigee does not have effervescent. Tubes in their portfolio or canisters. So like that they have broken their product to limited range whereas we are going ahead with full set of applications. That is one positive second.
As I said, Tool room and our. Ability to develop new products is what gives us an opportunity. For example, if somebody want to launch a product in US they have to first develop prototypes. They have to develop trial batch of 100,000 or 50,000 pieces and then market. It and wait for six months for. Stability and approvals across the supply chain. And after six months they come back to you and ask for commercial production. Of say 5 or 10 lakh pieces a month. So in this kind of a cycle mold tech can be their best bet. Because we are in house Tool room will be able to develop moulds, modify Moulds and quickly give them the first lot of 50,000, 30,000 pieces from the temporary moulds if needed. And then once they have six months, seven months lead time to get the stability done and see the commercialization, then we quickly make the commercial moulds and give them no loss of time. So that kind of advantage is what. We bring to the table. And that’s been well appreciated by at least 3, 4 clients within this one year of our existence. Assistance in pharma. So I see that is going to be a major positive going forward also for Maltech.
Mehul Panjwani
Thank you sir. One follow up question on this. So sir, what is the entry barrier for cover competition to have this tool room available in their setup
Lakshmana Rao
the last. 39 years or maybe close to 39 years correctly. Exactly. We have been in the injection modeling field with tool room as our backbone. And having invested in very high end machinery like five axis CNC machines, spark erosion machines, wire cut machines and you name anything. So whereas it is not an easy task for anybody to develop a tool room, even a company in my opinion like CG does not have a in. House tool room which is capable of developing complex molds. They may be having some maintenance or. Some kind of a tool room. I guess it’s not easy. One is machinery is not a great deal. Anybody with money can buy that. But the skill set, designing abilities are very difficult to find in our country. Very rarely you will find people with strong capabilities in that line. That is one of the entry barriers.
Mehul Panjwani
Sir, this is a great thing what you elaborated. So I am just wondering that what was why we were held back on for not being in the pharma segment. If we have this edge over the competition and you know the market is also there, we have the ability and the capability still we were not doing.
Lakshmana Rao
Now we can’t make the announcements in the newspaper. People don’t believe it. Our team has to go make presentations and prove this point by developing some products which we are doing now and then gain their confidence and orders. That’s what is happening. That’s why within four quarters we could cross the break even with generally any pharma packaging company would take two to three years.
Mehul Panjwani
Right? So sir, can we say that after three years maybe Pharma will be the dominant segment for us?
Lakshmana Rao
I wouldn’t say it will be a dominant number one segment but it will certainly be one of the leading segments. In Maltech’s growth history. I think it can, as you said, can happen to be the dominant contributor. In terms of profit at least
Mehul Panjwani
At Least, at least come in comparison to paints. Maybe.
Lakshmana Rao
Yes, it can in next three years because there is ophthalmic range, there is no cell spray range. There are, you know, other devices which can be added once we start gaining the confidence of the industry.
Mehul Panjwani
Yeah, because you know, sir, when we are talking about paint industry. Hello? Hello?
Lakshmana Rao
So that way. Hello, can you hear me?
Mehul Panjwani
Yeah, I can hear you, sir. Yeah.
Lakshmana Rao
Yeah, that way there is a large. Scope including injectables, vials, plastic veils, diaptic pens. You have plenty of things to do. We are just at the beginning. So that way, as you said, maybe three years is not three years. Four, five years down the line, Pharma could be the largest contributor of EBITDA for Maltech. If not revenue line also could be. But I can say in the EBITDA side, it could be one of the major players segments.
Mehul Panjwani
Right, right. Because I don’t know, you can correct me if I’m wrong, but the size, the potential size of the pharma segment will be far significantly higher than the paint size.
Lakshmana Rao
Right. Quite just in numbers. Paint segment will be still bigger in terms of what paint industry can buy. May be higher than in terms of plastic tonnage. It will be higher because of the huge size of containers they buy. But in terms of value addition in terms of EBITDA and the variety of. Products, Pharma will be much, much bigger. And ability, if you can export, that is another area we are now started touching upon. Within one year of our existence in Pharma we have made one supply to United States and we have at least three or four companies showing interest in. Our products for export to us. So that is another great opportunity. We want to parallelly explore that to become a reality. It might take few more quarters, but our direction is already set. We have taken one export manager who. Is only dedicated herself in training for US export opportunities and even our office of Multi Technologies in Atlanta also helping us wherever it is necessary to touch base with some of the pharma companies. In US
Mehul Panjwani
sir, once we have anything.
Lakshmana Rao
From exports as of now, I am just keeping that for future.
Mehul Panjwani
Right. So sir, once we taste some success in US would be also look at European market.
Lakshmana Rao
Europe also we have already in touch with the German company already our products are under stability test for last few months. And if there is some positive developments. There, we may get one or two opportunities there. Also even Bangladesh has a large requirement. Of EV tubes, I.e. effort tubes they buy from India. So there also we have started knocking at the doors of some clients. So simultaneously we are looking at export opportunities but they to become sizeable. Probably it may take a year or two.
Mehul Panjwani
Right? Sir, thank you so much. It’s always wonderful to have a conversation with you. Thank you.
Lakshmana Rao
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Before I take the next question, I would like to remind participants that you may press Star in one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Yash Bajaj from Lucky investment Managers. Please proceed.
Yash Bajaj
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I had a question regarding the paint segment this quarter which grew 2% in volumes. Now taking into consideration that the Satara plant has also kind of the utilization has gone up upwards of 50% and the ABG volume has also picked up. Then what is the reason for a 2% kind of volume growth this quarter?
Lakshmana Rao
As I said, ABG capacity of ABG utilization of the enhanced capac started only from middle of March and it is. Looking strong now in April and May. Whatever the indicated volumes, they are now. Able to lift from April onwards. So in the quarter of Q4 there was not much momentum. So it was only just 2%. But as I explained in the for the last few minutes the numbers of paint industry growth will had come into double digits starting from this quarter. That is Q1. Okay.
Yash Bajaj
And there was an issue that I think I believe our Satara plant which was catering to the Asian paint plant which was having which was going through under utilization because of some maintenance issue. So has that been.
Lakshmana Rao
All that’s completed in the last third quarter itself. And from fourth quarter onwards, as you said, the capacity dilation is 57% in fourth in the overall year which was almost like what is the capacitation in Q4 in Satara. I will get you that answer. So next this year, currently in April, it’s Almost running at 75, 80% capacity. Now as we are talking now.
Yash Bajaj
Okay. Okay. Got it, sir. Okay, that’s all. Thank you sir.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jaydeep Taparia from IDBI Capital. Please proceed.
Jaydeep Taparia
Thank you for the opportunity. So I had one question I wanted to ask. The contribution of IML in value and volume terms for this quarter.
Lakshmana Rao
Yeah. IML capacity has shot up to 75% in Q4. Compared IML and HDL together is 75.5% as against 64.4% last year. That’s up by almost 25% in terms of tonnage. So that’s a sizable jump. Again thanks to Asian paint slowly coming. Into IML in this last few months. One by one they are adding their. So the sizeable Numbers have moved in. And even in hdl, Asian paints has moved even in their low value paint segment like abg, they also moved into. HDL from screen printing. So we see a drop of screen printing by 26% and the entire growth. Has moved into labels 25.7%. So now today out of 76% is almost labeled containers IML and HDL.
Yash Bajaj
Okay, thank you very much.
operator
Thank you. I would like to remind participants that you may press STAR in one to ask a question. I repeat, I would like to remind participants that you may press STAR in one to ask a question. Question. The next question is from the line of Manish Mahavar from Antique stock broking. Please proceed.
Manish Mahawar
Yeah, congratulations for good setup number. So just one thing. In terms of paint as a. As a volume or a value wise, what is the contribution RCP at the moment?
Lakshmana Rao
Now the current statutory obligation of RCEP. For paint industry is somewhere around 20%. But I think very soon like June. Or July, statutory obligation is going to go up to 30%. So in the paint industry already major. Players have started using 20% even in the lube industry. And going forward it may even become. 30% in the next couple of quarters.
Manish Mahawar
But what was the contribution for our volume in rp? Contribution? R volume Overall only paint volume.
Lakshmana Rao
Overall contribution of paint in the volume. Is around 44.7% of our total volume. So for example, in the year of. 25 we have made 18,000 tons of. Paint pails and lubricant 9,200. So about out of 38,000, 27,000 continued to come from pale business. That is 71% of our overall sale.
Manish Mahawar
How much out of that is RCP?
Lakshmana Rao
RCP consumption this year is around 6,000 tons. Close to 6,000 tons. So out of 27,000, 6,000 means what? 20, 20. 20% you can say.
Manish Mahawar
And what I understand is your realization of RCPP is lower than your normal pp, right?
Lakshmana Rao
RCPB is now currently available in wide. Range of price range depending upon the quality. Right? From 83 rupees which is of very low quality, raw material price is 105. Let us say there are RCP available at 110 rupees per kilogram. Companies like Manjushri, Sri Chakra, they make very high end RCP and they charge more than virgin prices. So now today our average price is. Somewhere around 95 for RCP. Some of them are bought at 83, some of them bought at 95, some of them are bought at 105. Depending upon the sometimes client decides which one to buy. Sometimes we take whatever is available or whatever is suitable. So Based on that, RCP consumption is now reached 20% and it is expected. To go up in the next couple of years.
Manish Mahawar
Okay, understood. And in terms of just. Can you share one data points is the IML and nonl. You shared a volume contribution for 4Q. Can it possible to share in a value terms?
Lakshmana Rao
In terms of value, yeah. 77.4% is now labels compared to 78.5 last year.
Manish Mahawar
Okay. And what was the for the ES this year as a whole?
Lakshmana Rao
For the full year it is 74.4% in value terms compared to 68 last year.
Manish Mahawar
It’s the same as a 4Q and FY25 is the remain same number, right?
Lakshmana Rao
No, Q4 is 77.4. 12 months is 74.4. Okay.
Manish Mahawar
Understood. Okay. Sure, sir. Thanks. That’s all for myself.
Lakshmana Rao
Thanks, Manish.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, I take the last question for the day and would now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Hello, sir.
Lakshmana Rao
Yep.
operator
Are you on the call?
Lakshmana Rao
Yes.
operator
I would now like to give the conference over to the to you for the closing comments.
Lakshmana Rao
Okay.
operator
Yeah.
Lakshmana Rao
So I think the questions completed. So I take this opportunity to thank. Each and everybody who participated in this conference. And as I said in my opening. Remarks, the investments that have been made. In the last three years started bearing fruit. And we look forward to a much better future in the coming quarters. Not only in Pharma, but also in ABG and Tinwal segments. And I hope we’ll be in a position to present better performance in the coming quarters. I thank you once again for your interest in our company’s details and keep in touch. Bye. Thank you MK for organizing this conference Call.
operator
Thank you on behalf of MK Global Financial Services limited That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.
Lakshmana Rao
Thank you.