Mishra Dhatu Nigam Ltd (NSE: MIDHANI) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated Jun. 04, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty — Chairman and Managing Director
Thulasiraman Muthukumar — Director, Production & Marketing
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Mohit Lohia — Analyst
Dipen Vakil — Analyst
Abhishek Kumar Jain — Analyst
Rakesh Roy — Analyst
Raj Rishi — Analyst
Aman Singh — Analyst
Pritesh Chheda — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Maidani Q4NFY25 earnings conference call hosted by ICICI Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Mohit Lohia from ICICI Securities Limited. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Mohit Lohia — Analyst
Yeah. Hi Shruti. Thank you and good afternoon everyone. Thank you for joining us today for the concluding call of Mr. Datunigam Limited for the financial year FY25. First of all I would like to thank management for providing us the opportunity to host the call. From the management side we have Dr. S.V.S. narayan Murthy, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. T. Muthukumar, Director, Production and Marketing. So without further delay I would now hand over the call to Dr. Murthy for the opening remarks. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty — Chairman and Managing Director
Yeah. Good evening. Good evening all of you. To all of our respected investors colleagues from here with me I am joined by our Director Production and Marketing, our General Manager Marketing, our GM Finance, our AGM Finance and Company Secretary. So we are pleased to welcome you to this investor conference call. The detailed financial results for FY2024 to 25 have already been disclosed and they are all available with you. So I will not go into that line by line. However, I would like to take few minutes to highlight some of the key operational and strategic milestones that were achieved during the fiscal year which we believe mark an important step forward for our company Mizani.
To begin with, Q4 of FY24 25 has been particularly significant. We have achieved our highest ever quarterly turnover of 410.56 crores registering a growth of 1.25% over the same quarter last year. More importantly, the value of production during the quarter stood at 329.16 crore reflecting a growth of 16.78%. We are also encouraged by the profitability numbers for Q4. PBT rose by 13.37% to 77.16 crore while PAT increased by 21.04% to 56.14 crore over the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Coming to the full year performance, FY2425 has seen Mizani achieve its highest ever annual turnaround 1074.1 crore registering a growth of 0.13% over FY2324.
While the top line growth appears marginal, it must be seen in the context of shifting product mix and an industry landscape where raw material volatility and global supply chain uncertainties have been a constant challenge. The EBITDA for the year stood at 248.97 crore showing a healthy growth of 11.1% and our PAT for the year rose by 20.61% to 110.07 crore compared to 91.26 crore in FY 2324. One of the key operational highlights of the year was the improved control over production inventory which had been on an increasing trend in the previous years. As you would have remembered, this year inventory levels decreased by approximately 8.5 crore.
Please make a note of it contributing to more efficient working capital management and a reduction in debt. Another notable development has been our export performance. Exports have grown nearly threefold this year compared to FY23 24 excluding deemed exports. This is clear indicator of our growing global presence. We have also begun diversifying our alloy offerings including new grades for our healthcare, oil and gas and energy sectors. The impact of these efforts will be more visible in the coming years as production scales up and customer relationships mature. On the capital investment side, we have undertaken a capex of 50 crore this year which has gone into strengthening manufacturing infrastructure and commissioning new facilities.
Our order book position as on 1st April 2025 stood at 1832 crore providing good visibility for the coming years. So in closing I want to sincerely thank all our investors and stakeholders and for your continued trust and support with these few iteratory words. I now open the floor for your questions and will be happy to take all your questions from me and from my colleagues. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue you may press star and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of the paint from Philip Capital. Please proceed.
Dipen Vakil
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity sir. So my first question is to understand a little bit on the business environment that is there. So recently we have come across some news articles regarding some reduction or other restriction in the supply of some rare earth materials and critical materials from China. So I wanted to Understand how what are the critical materials that we import from China right now and how do we plan to manage that considering that especially for the defense sector there has been a restriction on the same. That’s my first question.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Okay. See many of the raw materials that undergo and that go into production of these materials landscape of Megani, particularly the super alloys and titanium alloys, some of the master alloys that we use for manufacturer, they are imported. Okay. But as on today, we are not having any import of any of the raw materials from China. And even if we want to import, there are enough non Chinese suppliers. So it is not of a concern for us.
Dipen Vakil
Got it sir. That’s really encouraging, sir. Second is for going ahead. How do you see the business and the top line panning out and how do you see the margin expansion? Do you see any margin expansion happening in the following year?
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yeah, see basically it goes like this. The if you look at the strategic departments of Aerospace, Defense and Atomic Energy, more programs are coming and more and more orders will be coming in future. And Milani is the only super. I mean it is the. With respect to super alloys and titanium alloys, this is the only plant that has more than 40 years of experience in these material supply of these super alloys and titanium alloys and high strength steels. And we have a very big opportunity in this space being an old timer and being the storehouse of more than 500 alloy grades that has been indigenized by Midani.
We are the leaders in this area and I feel there is a significant opportunity for us with respect to the order book position with respect to the new orders or new projects that government of India is taking. So we don’t expect any issue with respect to the potential new customers. And we are sure that we will be able to make a healthy top line as you are suggesting in the coming years.
Dipen Vakil
So any headline growth rate or something that you’d like to represent.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Headline growth
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
we’ll be. We are planning about a 20% growth every year. Okay. So now due to this atmanirbar and a lot of initiatives taken by the government in indigenization we are in effort in developing so many alloys and metals for our strategy sector. Our CMD has told so we are expecting about 20% growth every year.
Dipen Vakil
Got it sir. Thank you so much and all the best for FY26. Thank you sir.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhishek Kumar Jain from Alpha. Please proceed.
Abhishek Kumar Jain
Thanks for opportunity, sir. So sir, my first question on the RM side. So. So just wanted to understand that what are the key raw materials which are used in your production and how impact on because of the fluctuation of the price, how it impacts the margin.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Okay, this is a okay raw material. You know, we import few elements to manufacture super alloys or titanium alloys. We import a number of raw materials like for example pure nickel, pure cobalt, moly, tungsten, chromium. So there are a number of alloying elements. Similarly, we also import a number of master alloys in the process of alloy manufacture. For example, aluminum, meridian master alloy. There are different grades which needs different kinds of raw materials and master alloy. How the variation in the prices affect us? There has been volatility, as you know, there have been some geopolitical.
There has been up and down in the raw material cost. But now I think it is more or less. It is becoming uniform. There is no big problem and we don’t anticipate much issue with respect to that. Previous years there was some issue with the increased raw material cost that has affected us our balance sheet. But we are feeling that now it is more or less stabilized. And we are confident that we give the same trend will continue.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
In addition to that, about 23 raw material which we have been importing it now we are taking a lot of steps in developing some of the master alloys indigenously which in which in three master alloys we are successful. So in addition to that, we are taking lot of steps in salvaging our scrap and getting the part of the raw material through that. So apart from getting imported this raw material, we are also on the way how to salvage our scrap and how to indigenous some of the raw material. So as such, there is no problem in getting the raw material and the future.
Also, since expecting that some problem would come Maybe in another five years, 10 years, a lot of steps being taken in Midani to overcome that. So there should not be any problem in supply of raw material and which will cater the requirement of our production need and increases the sales.
Abhishek Kumar Jain
So are you exploring any plans for the dedicated scrap processing or recycling plant to improve cost efficiency and the sustainability of the margin?
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
There are efforts already in place. For the last couple of years we have been in touch with some government agencies as well as some national labs. Okay. We are working closely with some of the CSIR labs on how to extract the precious material, precious elements from the scrap, high value scrap that we are having. So already that we have in collaboration with national labs, we have worked out and it is giving very encouraging results. So we will be self sufficient, if not fully, at least we will not be Having the crisis of not having some of the critical alloying elements that are likely to be that are presently being imported.
So that way we are taking step by step. We have started already in a very positive note. And as our director of production and marketing has told we are all already we have indigenized one of the master life and we are in the process of indigenizing some of the other master lights that are required for making advanced titanium alloys for aerospace grade.
Abhishek Kumar Jain
Okay, so sir, if we see the EBITDA margin numbers before FY24 that was in the range of 25 to 30%. But in the recent past it has come down. So can we achieve the old margin of that 25 to 30% kind of the range in the medium term? Because of that the. Because of this operational efficiency you are taking effort.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
This EBITDA margin does not depend depends upon the products which we make it say whatever earlier which were there, the product range was different. Where we have been producing mostly for space. Now the environment slightly got changed. Most of the orders we are taking on a competition trade with the private parties under imported parties. So now that is where our EBITDA has come down. But we are looking forward in all the efforts. We are looking all the ways to improve our EBITDA by reducing our raw material cost and other factors. If you see the last year compared to 23, 24, 24, 25.
If you see our raw material consumption has come down by 100 crores. That is also partly because of raw material price and partly because of our operational efficiency also. So same effort will continue in coming years also. So that EBITDA will grow up. But seeing the business environment where a lot of competition is there. So our EBITDA will be waving around 20 to 25%.
Abhishek Kumar Jain
20 to 25%.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
20 to 20 will be raining around. Depends on the product rate and depends upon the imported cost that that point of time. So it will be around 20 to 20.
Abhishek Kumar Jain
Okay, and sir, what is the production capacity of the newly commissioned titanium plant and which key sectors of client you are targeting towards?
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
The titanium plant recently has been commissioned. It has been put into full fledged operation. The capacity it will be about 250 to 300 tons per month.
Abhishek Kumar Jain
Okay, and how much revenue potential that.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Titanium has got? A huge potential. We are having a lot of orders in both the aero sector and the demand sector. Okay, so there has been a lot of this thing. But there have been some disturbances in the supply of raw material, especially on the master light. So last year we could not able to make as CMDs told that we could able to indigenous some of the master ally. So coming here there will not be any problem in feeding. So we will be able to cater all the requirement of titanium. Because order is huge and our production also is coming in a full way and we’ll be able to meet the requirement.
Abhishek Kumar Jain
Okay sir and my last question on the export side as you mentioned that this year the export growth was three times. So what is what sort of the potential you are looking for the export side in the near to medium term. If you are targeting around 20% plus growth of the next 3, 4 years every year CAGR how would be the meet in a export versus domestic?
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
CMD has already told in the open market last year we had done 94 crores which itself is a threefold improvement over the previous year. Now we are in the process of getting certification by some of the overseas customers. Overseas customer say only major customer like Saffron G. So many fellows will be coming and they started certifying inspecting our plant. So we also because of this geopolitical situation and the overseas also there is a lot of time taken for supplying the material. Because of that all these overseas customer they are looking to Megani for the supply of the material.
And we also improved our turnover time drastically. So we also look a lot of growth will be there in the export in coming years. Sir. So though the right now the order position is about 3035 to 40 crores. But further growth will be there in this year also we’ll be booking and there could be a possibility that definitely we’ll be crossing about 120 crores in. The coming years
Abhishek Kumar Jain
in FY26.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Yes. Yes. 25-26
Abhishek Kumar Jain
Thank you sir. That’s all commented.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Before we take the next question. Before we take the next question we would like to remind participants that you may press Star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Rakesh Roy from Boring amc. Please proceed.
Rakesh Roy
Hi. Hi. Sir, my first question regarding your order book is nearby 1800 cr. So can you give me the breakup between different space energy and others?
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yeah. So this is the breakup of 18 retro. So we have the percentage wise defense is about 84%. Space is about 8%. Energy 2% and rest of the things about 3%. And exports we have about 2%. That is the breakup of total as on today. But it will go up. Yeah. So we are expecting more orders. It may be going up and we are anticipating good number of orders from air on heavy missile, space and power.
Rakesh Roy
Okay. And my second question is how much order inflow we get for this FY25 total order info in FY25.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yeah. We are expecting approximately around 1500 crores. We are anticipating as on today. So there are orders that are already in pipeline. We are. There are different stages of procurement. I mean process. Basically we are expecting big orders in Aero. Okay. Arrow and space. Okay. So and Defense Navy. We are expecting a big order. So they are all invoicing crores. We can. We are expecting.
Rakesh Roy
And sir, how much order inflow we get in FY25 total order info in FY25?
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yeah. We have already booked about 1400.
Rakesh Roy
1400 courses. Right. And the last question is regarding. So your Rota plant. How much is order? Because last time we. As you mentioned we have nearby left 100cr order book in Rota plant. How much left as on now for Rotak?
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
About 10 crores. Yeah.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Order booking at Rotak it is about 10 crore only. But there are orders on the way. We have been trying to take some of the tots from the reputed institute. Through that we are trying to book more orders. They may during the course of the year we may get another 30. 40 crore order. We may end up with the 50 crore order order booking in the final sale of 20 by 26.
Rakesh Roy
So we are looking at nearby. Nearby 50 cr for. For FY26 from Rota plant new order.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
We are aiming it. But sales maybe. We may end up with maybe 30 crore.
Rakesh Roy
Okay. Sir. Rota plant is only for bulletproof. This one or we make other things also.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
There no rock plan for is for both the body armoring as well as the vehicle ar.
Rakesh Roy
Okay. Only for body arming and you know other things.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Yeah. It is only for that. Yeah.
Rakesh Roy
Okay. And any other new. Any plan to add any new product in Rotak plant. Because order book is very less and we have the order not come then it is ideal. This plant is not running.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
We are exploring this itself. There is a scope for improving lot. We are exploring more order and we try to establish a better technology. So that more orders can be taken under rotation.
Rakesh Roy
Okay. And one thing this is when on a HL call they have mentioned you are working with HL person products.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Yes.
Rakesh Roy
Yes sir. And how much does it. How much the. How much is the market size you’re looking from that product in near future. And how is there.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
There in. In the process of indigenous of some engines. We are associated with HL right now we are having order about 640 crores. So but that order again another 300 to 350 crores. It is. It is in the process and year on year on the same product there is a possibility that we will get more orders from aj.
Rakesh Roy
Okay. More order from. And as you mentioned is your new Titan plant facing some raw material issue so major.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
It was
Rakesh Roy
okay. It works. Or the plant capacity as you mentioned is 250 to 300 ton per month.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Yes. Yes.
Rakesh Roy
Okay. Or they will make only 30 limit sir. So generally we are importing.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Yes. They’ll make only 10.
Rakesh Roy
Raw material for import or just from India only
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
sponge. Main sponge it is being imported. That ally that we. It is now we are indigenous in the last year that will be taken from India. Indigenous.
Rakesh Roy
Okay. And sir any chance to. Because the PTC industries has also started there. This one titanium thing. So any chance to you take from raw material from PTC or any. Any other things.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
We. We have established our source of raw material and we have developed other parties also. So we are self sustained and we need not depend on pdc.
Rakesh Roy
Okay. Right. Okay sir. Thank you sir. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Before we take the next question we would like to remind participants press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Rishi Raj Rishi from dcpn. Please receive.
Raj Rishi
Hello. Can you hear me?
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yeah.
Raj Rishi
Hello. Yeah. What is like Supposedly the Prime minister also talked about massive growth in aerospace MRO over the next few years. So how will that impact Medani?
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
See one of the prime products of Midani is one of the lines is super alloys and super allies are the essence of any aero engine. And if more amount more Number of MROs or MRO units are established more business for Midani. So we look at like.
Raj Rishi
Okay and sir this if US and India go for RDP reciprocal defense procurement what’s going to be the impact on Medani? Hello.
Hello, can you hear me? Yes. Hello.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yeah, we are able to hear. Just a moment.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Hey this we are still under discussion. That still we are not really assessed what would be the impact on it. So maybe in the course of time we will be able to tell you what will be the impact on it.
Raj Rishi
But sir, prima facie at least my perception is it’s going to open up a huge market for Maidani. Am I. Is the perception correct? Yeah.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Yeah your perception is correct. But that again we have to take it up with the concern and we have to work out what would be the real impact on this.
Raj Rishi
Answer this. Europe rearmament of Europe is going to be like a. Supposed to be a very big amount over the next few years. So how will Madani be affected? Should. Should it benefit Madani.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
With respect to export order?
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
You are telling with respect to export order? No.
Raj Rishi
Yeah, like
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
probably we look at like this. See this year we have about 95 crores of exports. Okay. Okay. And we are. We are getting these orders in open tendering process. So we are already competitive in international market and elsewhere in Europe there are difficulties because of the supply chain constraints. So we have a very good opportunity. We have increased almost threefold in the current. I mean 24, 25 we have got. We have increased the exports. So we expect to continue the same trend because we are competitive and people are looking at us as a reliable supply partner.
Already we have been people from international aerospace makers like General Electric, Safran OEMs have already they have come and they are in discussion with us. They are listing our plants and we are in discussion with them. So we hope that our order book position from exports also will be proportionately higher in this financial year year.
Raj Rishi
Something like three times this this year also compared to last year
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
three times. Maybe little more ambitious but certainly it will be a better figure. That is maybe 120 to 150 crores. We. That is what is our target.
Raj Rishi
Okay. And some Madani is also involved in this CAG engine, right? The development.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yeah, yes, yes.
Raj Rishi
And what sort of can give a. Perception as to how it will benefit Madani the engine? If there is a force to, you know, develop the engine as some people are talking about.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
See, we are the source supplier of this metals and alloy for cover engine. Once it comes through then whatever the requirement of metals and alloys it will go through Midani only. So Milani will be benefited lot because we already have developed a tight step set that those metals alloys for covering.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Probably I can add to whatever director production marketing told. There are nearly hundred alloys of aerospace grade that were type tested. Alloys per aerospace have to be type tested for repeatability and reproducibility. So Mizani over the last maybe two decades has established more than 100 type tested alloys which are useful like for example for Cauvery engine program. So technology is available with us. It is only a matter of time that they have to place order.
Raj Rishi
Okay. And sir, how competitive you are compared to your peers in the western world like price wise and otherwise.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yeah, we are competitive in super alloys.
Yeah. And our main. See this is a specialized business. Okay. Both super allies and titanium alloys is a specialized business which is practiced by very handful of people around the world. And making alloys to the requirement of aerospace grade is an art. Okay? So that we have mastered that art and we are quite competitive. Otherwise we would not have got that nearly 100 crore export orders this year.
Raj Rishi
Okay, okay, okay. Thanks a lot.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Aman from Prophet Gate. Please proceed.
Aman Singh
Hello. Hi sir. Am I audible?
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yeah, audible.
Aman Singh
So I have three questions. Firstly, as you report in your annual report, can you give me breakup of FY25 revenue segment wise defense based energy, others maybe percentage or absolute number. Both works.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yeah. So revenue wise we have sector wise space we have contribution from space is 11%. From defense it is 37% PSUs another 37%. Energy is 1%, exports are 9% and all miscellaneous is about 5%. So the major.
Aman Singh
Okay. And so right as you highlighted in the call earlier, EBITDA margins from the space sector are higher than other segments. So as the revenue revenue from aerospace segment is decreasing and the order book also has lower share of aerospace keeping. Keeping the keeping raw material prices as constant. Can can we improve the margin from here on? Or the margins would be at FY25 levels or it will decline.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Say as I told that now our EBITDA will be to the range of 25%. Okay. If it will be to the range of 25%. Okay. So since we are going to improve on the sales volume revenue turnover then our profit on that percentage percentage will go up. So the in that process of P80PBT also will go up but our EBITDA will be to the range of 25%. 25.
Aman Singh
Okay, can you highlight the differential gross profit margin in space and other segments that you have a rough, rough idea.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Space we have a. Earlier we had a higher margin but in the defense so much of margin is not there. It is not there because now whatever it is getting earlier imported they are trying to cut the cost comparing to the imported because they are also indigenous. And in the cost part of it, our defense sector is trying to do or aero sector is trying to do that we have to match with the imported cost in that process our margin is not so high compared to space. But still we are trying to optimize our process and reducing the raw material consumption.
We are trying to improve upon the margin. That is what we are doing. But as such order booking margin is not so high as it was there in the space.
Aman Singh
So can you highlight the differential margins between space and other segments? Maybe Defense.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
One to one we are not worked out. But as I told you that in this defense or arrows margin is slightly less compared to the space.
Aman Singh
Okay. So. Yes, that’s. That’s also. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhishekumar Jain from Alpha. Accurate. Please proceed.
Abhishek Kumar Jain
Thanks for opportunity again. Can you give more details on the new alloy development, particularly those aligned to the aerospace application and the ultra megawatt power plants for the clients like bhel.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Okay. There are for example ultra supercritical thermal power plant. We have developed one of the alloys in association with government agencies. So that is. Which is capable of withstanding very high temperatures and pressures in tubular form. So multiple agencies are involved in this particular developmental project. And we have successfully made in the raw material form that is required and product form that is required, meeting all the requirements and we have applied also. So that is with respect to the ultra high supercritical boiler and with respect to aero. There are multiple grades actually the aerospace. There are multiple grades of materials that we have indigenized and supplied to for the.
Yeah, so we have supplied to hal, as the previous speaker asked. A good amount of order is there in that. And we are developing many more allies, new allies because our core strength is ally development. So that is what we are doing.
Abhishek Kumar Jain
Okay. And sir, how much nickel, cobalt and titanium accounts for your rm? How is the sensitivity with the price change of these materials?
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
There is a lot of sensitivity. Okay. But about 10 to 15% there is always change over the price. Okay. From the previous purchase and the present purchase.
Abhishek Kumar Jain
Okay. And so just wanted to understand that how is the concentration of the rns, especially nickel is the major part of the titanium.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Maybe there are both are two different.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yeah, both are two different. I mean for example, titanium is used for making the titanium sponge for is used for the manufacture of titanium alloy. Nickel is used for the manufacture of super alloy. So both are two different verticals al together. And of course both are critical raw material. And Mizani has portfolio of both the products both nickel based super alloys as well as titanium alloys.
Abhishek Kumar Jain
So as you mentioned that you are targeting a EBITDA margin of around 25% in the coming years. So just wanted to understand what would be the key drivers for the margin. Is it because of the better uses of your scrap and reduction of the inventories or the the better mix business make.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
One as I have been told that business maker more than that business maker that we are also trying to utilize more of scrap and we are also optimizing our Facility and which will have impact on the yield. We are also looking for some sort of a capital investment which you have a better ability. So in this this process our yield and other parameter also will get improved because of combination of all other factors. Only that product and other optimization of our process with respect to the new investment, with respect to the usage of scrap, with respect to optimization of parameter all will lead to this achieving the e of about 20%.
Abhishek Kumar Jain
And how would be the capex in. The for 3627
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Capex last year we invested about 45 crore. Okay, 50. 50 crore. Now this coming year this we are planning to invest about 75 to 100 crore every year. That is what internal expert. But at the same time we are in discussion with other partners for having a long term projector to have a which get invested in the period of four to five years. So this also it is under discussion. Maybe next quarter we may have some idea how we are go how we’ll go about it.
Abhishek Kumar Jain
Okay and my last question on that outlook. How do you see the outlook of the business post this the recent war Operation Sindhu, Operation Schindu. So what kind of the visibility has come and how the order book has opened for your business. How did it change the entire perspective?
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Okay. Yeah. Because yeah. Some materials that were used in the recent operations have been supplied Midani as part of those materials. And one of the good things that has happened is it has been demonstrated live. Live tested. So that shows immense confidence to people. And after seeing the performance of our products we are expecting many more orders from the defense.
Abhishek Kumar Jain
Okay sir, thank you. That’s all for me.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rakesh Roy from Boring emc. Please proceed.
Rakesh Roy
My question regarding again for order books or as you mentioned you have total order book 1800 and out of nearby 84% is from different. Sir, how much is. Can you give me the breakup between the air force, army Navy. How much is there for army, Navy and air force?
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
No, I think we are individually we have. We have. I can give you. I mean put together but I think individually I think.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
50% will be there.
Rakesh Roy
50% from army and 50% from Air Force.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
No, no, it’s not army.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
It’s not army. We. It is from a naval sector and air sector means airport Air force in. Turn go to HAL and hl. We get order and that’s what this is. Order booked.
Rakesh Roy
Okay. Right. So regarding sir, as you mentioned previously out of total revenue after total out of total revenue 34% is nearby 37% for difference and 30 37% of a PSU. Can you give the basic idea how much is for difference? Only one year for difference in today PSU.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yeah, some of the PSU units are Defense PSUs. Yeah. So total. Yeah, probably you can. Yeah, probably. If I look at the data, around 70 to 75% will be defense.
Rakesh Roy
As you said. As when you. If you are checking your last five years seven year history whenever the difference revenue is increasing because from FY19 your difference revenue is near by 30% now is a 70%. So margin will come down if you see your order backlog is there by 84% again for defense. So it’s a very not is a bit tough to sustain this margin or very to maintain this margin or margin will come down in the future also because.
Unidentified Speaker
In the two years back and. All when we are having the SpaceX space sector more more sales and from the space space sector there we were having the 35 watt year victory. 35, 40% EBITDA margin, 35% EBITDA margins also.
Rakesh Roy
Agree, Agree, sir.
Unidentified Speaker
Now the currently the defense and PSUs are contributing around 70, 70% or more. And the space is definitely currently compared to the three years before figures. Then definitely it is less than compared to that. Definitely the margins we are having more. Margins on the space sector compared to defense sector. So that is why we said that EBITDA margins we are expecting around 4, 25%. But when we increase the volumes it may go up slightly. Marginally it may go up also.
Rakesh Roy
Okay, so any specific reason why our space revenue is coming down due to any not any new program or anything else?
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yeah, nothing like that. Actually if you look at the orders are not placed when they are placed cyclically, like for example, typically the orders are given or the programs are approved for Department of Space once. So they calculated they give for say for next two years they may give once order or next so many launch vehicles they may be giving orders. So it does not. It is not that it is going down. It is a cyclical. So probably this year it means 24, 25 would have been low. Maybe next year it may be more again.
And we are also expecting order from space. It is in pipeline in the final levels of order negotiations and all. So we are also expecting from them.
Rakesh Roy
Okay, sir. And sir, are we supplying any material for missile technology also from any material from missile like a Pinaka or anything brahmos type of missile?
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Absolutely. We are supplying in fact suppliers for them.
Rakesh Roy
Okay. And okay. And because. Because demand is very high for export Market especially for Brahmos and pinaka. So we will see any any hype in for demand for this one.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
The moment they get order, we also get order from them.
Rakesh Roy
Okay. And what about how much is nearby for one Brahmas? How much the value of material we supply for example.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
That is difficult to tell.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Say they are. They are for the total numbers. Okay. We cannot.
Rakesh Roy
Okay.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
How much is the value? Okay.
Rakesh Roy
Last last time we have been speaking. So as you say you are again starting this one making barrel because earlier making for barrel corner artillery barrel. So are we started or will be looking to start again for barrel making.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
We are also in discussion in supply of that gun barrel. Okay. So still we are not finalized that order. So shortly maybe in the next quarter we will be able to tell what is the portion of that order.
Rakesh Roy
Right? Thank you sir. Thank you. This is my.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Before we take the next question we would like to remind participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of prates cheddar from lucky investment. Please proceed.
Pritesh Chheda
Sir I wanted to know about the capex that we have done in the last 57 years where your cross block has added by about 7800 crores. So let’s say in the nickel based alloys and the titanium based alloys which are your two product line segments. How. Much capital have gone there? And if you can tell us the capacity utilizations of both of these areas so that we can understand what kind of revenue potential is yet to be captured. Because since the last five, seven years we haven’t seen any movement in your EBITDA line any hardly any movement in your revenue line.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
See if you see that what are capex put because of that only in the year 2324 we could able to have a growth of about 2420%. In 2425 we could able to sustain the same set of growth. So now we started giving and we started stabilizing those units and we started giving result. And now year on year there could there is a possibility that there will be a growth of about 20% year on year. So now those got water investment we have done over the 45 years. Now only it is started giving result so we’ll be able to do it.
Pritesh Chheda
So the last leg whatever you have spent this 600 crores that all has gone in titanium alloys.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
No, no. Actually out of 800 crores what are we spending five years. The major capex we sent on white plate mill which is about 600 crores. Okay. That is WBM we had put as a strategic facility to meet substitution, import substitution. Because of that only we could able to do most of the titanium plates which have been otherwise imported. We could able to do it so that we cannot expect so much of revenue growth from that WP unit. Immediately now we started stabilizing that the WPM unit to develop most of the imported products. Recently rolled aluminium which for aero sector which otherwise it was getting imported and worldwide also it is not available with some more products.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yes. So if you look at what our director production and marketing was telling. All aluminium alloys are hard. Aluminum alloys used in aerospace industry are imported. Currently there is no Indian manufacturer who can manufacture 2000, 6000 and 7000 series alloys of width more than one meter. Now using the WPM we have initiated some experimental trial of one of the aero grade alloy and we could successfully process the plate. So what I am saying is basically there is a lot of opportunity in white plate rolling mill which has taken about 4 to 500 crores investment. And we are trying to see how we can.
How best we can use the mill for newer product.
Pritesh Chheda
Okay. So so basically out of 800, 600 had grown in white slate mill and 200 crores has gone in.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Other. Other facilities like melt bar and wire other downstream.
Pritesh Chheda
Okay, okay. Okay. So when you mention this 200 to 250 tons per month of titanium even that’s the white metal. So do you. What do you refer to that. Do you refer to base titanium sponge or do you. What do you refer to when you. When you say this capacity?
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
This capacity is basically to produce titanium alloy of various forms, various grades?
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yeah, probably.
Pritesh Chheda
Okay.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Yeah, one line I think probably I would like to add titanium sponge is different. That is the raw material that goes into the melting of titanium alloy that is indigenously it is available at a plant in Chavra in Kerala. Okay. Which manufactures about 500 tons per annum of titanium sponge. We are importing titanium sponge. Okay. And sponge is not in the product line of Mizani makes titanium alloys from. Sponge
Pritesh Chheda
and from alloy. The plates are made or then alloy is sold as alloy.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Madani is capable of making both bar and plate product.
Pritesh Chheda
Okay. Okay. So basically can you tell the capacity utilization here in platemill and titanium alloy and what’s your capacity utilization in nickel in FY25.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
The plate bill? As I told that the capacity utilization is not full because it has been made for the strategy purposes. Okay. Now it is a process of development as it has been explained. Explained maybe coming. Yes, it will come to the full fledged production okay. Full fledged production. With respect to the titanium shop as I told last year we had some problem in supplying of the master life. We took about six months in development of the master life because of the geopolitical situation. So this year, this financial year 20 by 26 we’ll be able to use 100 of its capacity.
Pritesh Chheda
Okay. And nickel
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
nickel already we added. Now whatever requirement of nickel nickel alloy super alloy that we are all doing 100 whatever order position is there.
Pritesh Chheda
Okay. So the plate mill and the titanium alloy is fair to assume that capacity utilization will be extremely low at 15 20%.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Actually in the yell now this year it will become a Titanic shop of 20. By 26 it will be become 100 and plate bill take some more time to have achieved 100.
Pritesh Chheda
No, it was 15 20% FY25. That was. I was referring to.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
I. You are telling 24, 25.
Pritesh Chheda
Reported here.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
No, no. One minute. Let us separate the titanium super alloy and white plate tribunal super ally. Currently we are having full utilization.
Pritesh Chheda
Okay
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
White plate because it is meant for strategic applications of rolling wide plates of margin steel and other critical aerospace grade materials. The load to that is not to that extent. Okay so. But that is why we are diversifying our portfolio to make it as usage as possible.
Pritesh Chheda
How much utilization? You said that number was unaudible.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Full utilization. Full.
Pritesh Chheda
Okay, okay, okay, understood. And this 600 crore capex of white plate mill what is the asset turn on? This can be the asset turn.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Sorry.
Pritesh Chheda
600 crore investment that you do.
Unidentified Speaker
That’s what we are talking about. Currently the supply cycle is from the white flood mill is less, very less secure. 600 crore. The investment in those returns will take some time. Currently we don’t have the returns right now as expected so maybe over a period in down the line in two years we can definitely expect some good, good amount of that. That will also okay the overall business of the company because we are having more hopes on that. It will take some time but okay.
Pritesh Chheda
And the last question. 25% margin number that you refer to that you refer to the coming year or that you refer as a. As a number which will come over years as and when the plate will get utilized.
Unidentified Speaker
No, that’s all without the play without the plate mean at a higher level around 20 to 24, 25 EBITDA margins without the white plate mint and definitely our margins will grow up drastically.
Pritesh Chheda
Okay. Okay. So 20 growth and 25 margin. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Without. Yeah. Okay sir, thank you.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Before we take the next question we would like to Remind participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line. The next question is from the line of Mohit Loya. Over to you sir.
Mohit Lohia
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. So I just want to know one thing. The recently CCS has approved space based surveillance satellite SBS3 program. How large this opportunity can be for Midani over the years?
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Okay, see with respect to. Okay, you are talking about new satellite. The satellite has to be launched by a launch vehicle. And we are the suppliers of the launch vehicle materials and whatever launch has been announced. Certainly our products will be there in the launch vehicle.
Mohit Lohia
Right? So the overall program cost is about. I guess if I’m not wrong, it’s about 3B 3 billion USD. So roughly it translates about 24, 25,000 crores. How large this opportunity can be for us?
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
So we launch vehicle, we see with respect to if it is a see order normally is placed by ISRO or Minani. Okay, so it depends on not one one launch vehicle. It is multiple launch vehicles. With respect to the satellite you are talking about, we do not know which launch vehicle they are using. So we have to see how much order they will put on us. And we are the sole supply of margin steel plates to ifro. So we expect correspondingly whatever they have planned, we are expecting the orders from them.
Mohit Lohia
Yeah, sure sir. That’s it from my side.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aman from Profit Gate. Please proceed.
Aman Singh
Hi sir, thank you for the follow up. Seeking clarification on the question of previous participant. So you highlighted that the capacity in titanium alloy and super alloy is operating at 100 already in FY25 and EBITDA margins will improve from current 20% to 25% without any scale up in white plate meal. So wanted to understand triggers of EBITDA margin improving despite share of defense going higher which is a low margin product for us.
Unidentified Speaker
Currently even in FY24000 we are at 23% 23 plus the EBITDA margin. So 25% is the expected for FY26. What we talked about is because the operation definitely the volumes, operational efficiencies as well as DPM’s direct production has already explained we are more exploring that using the scrap like recovering the elements raw materials from the scrap and using it rather than the virgin product which will definitely have a positive impact on our raw material consumption cost. Raw material cost which is the major contributor in the total cost. So these all will definitely contribute to take that 2% margins which we are talking about without considering the white plate meal and all which we are.
Which may take us some time. But once the white plate will comes then definitely the margins will be around 30% but definitely not at 25%. It will definitely be more. But that will take some time. Right? We are not expecting that to happen in FY26.
Aman Singh
Okay. And just to clarify, titanium alone super alloy capacities are already working at almost 100% in FY25 isable. Right.
Thulasiraman Muthukumar
Our booking is there for 100. So we’ll be able to utilize all our equipments in the financial 2526 to meet the requirement. Because we are having a high end order in both the red and M and super alloy.
Aman Singh
So for FY25, how much was the utilization?
operator
Mr. Aman, may we request you to join the question queue again?
Aman Singh
Yeah.
operator
Thank you. Due to time constraints. That was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Dr. Murthy for the closing comments. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Dr. S. V. S. Narayana Murty
Thank you. Thank you once again to all our investors for joining today’s conference call and for all your continuous trust and support on Midani. We are proud of what Midani has accomplished in FY2425 as we move on to 2526 with our strong order book, expanding export footprint and investment in next generation newer allies that we are developing as well as for sustained growth. If you have any further questions, you please feel free to contact our company secretary. We wish you from Meidani side a pleasant day. Thank you.
operator
Thank you on behalf of ICICI securities limited that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.